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Alakaslam
United States17322 Posts
On May 28 2014 03:01 slOosh wrote: How is it straightforward for you when you dismissed the whole thing as meta? Show me where I did this. I have dismisse meta as reliable but this is not a meta case. This is a case made in reaction to his nonsensical replies to others pushing meta points on him. His replies make no logical town sense, to me- but since that is also how Spock operates, good enough for me. | ||
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27ninjabunnies
United States2486 Posts
On May 28 2014 02:42 mderg wrote: Are you asking about why it´s bad play or why i think it´s not scummy but bad play? I´l answer both I don´t think that makes him scum because even considering that he missed the alignments of the last game being published it´s not unlikely to be figured out that he lied. Unless he is scum with amiko or somehow knows that amiko won´t notice it there is quite a huge risk of the lie being discovered. Why it´s bad play should be obvious with the situation he´s in right now. It makes him suspicious which he doesn´t want as either alignment. You are right. Unless amiko is with him, his play would be called out. However, what was I supposed to do, let it slide and hope that amiko comments on it? That's not something I would do. | ||
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27ninjabunnies
United States2486 Posts
On May 28 2014 02:43 fuba wrote: It's in my filter, as well as something mderg mentioned recently... His scummates from last game would know he was scum, regardless of whether or not the scumteam was revealed to all of us. Therefore, the lie would be caught for sure, unless the scumteam was exactly the same as last game, which I doubt XD It could be possible. Ive modded video mafia games in where we had to reroll and ive rng the exact same mafia team. It's possible, rare, but possible. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On May 27 2014 17:41 Alakaslam wrote: Meta is useless, and I will be proof within 16 hours. This happens when people are talking about the case. You chose not to comment on it at all despite his play being "illogical to a clear extreme", and only now you jump on? | ||
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27ninjabunnies
United States2486 Posts
On May 28 2014 03:06 slOosh wrote: This happens when people are talking about the case. You chose not to comment on it at all despite his play being "illogical to a clear extreme", and only now you jump on? By meta, isnt slam talking about his own meta? Im not sure how this statement refers to the case at hand. | ||
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mderg
Germany1739 Posts
On May 28 2014 03:04 27ninjabunnies wrote: You are right. Unless amiko is with him, his play would be called out. However, what was I supposed to do, let it slide and hope that amiko comments on it? That's not something I would do. I think it´s good that you pointed it out but how everyone instantly jumps on him that´s what I don´t like. | ||
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mderg
Germany1739 Posts
On May 28 2014 03:01 Alakaslam wrote: Jabberwockzerg's play is illogical to a clear extreme, mderg defends him so hard nonetheless, that to me this also screams scum. Mderg, if you are to defend jwz, I recommend being more specific in your refutation of the points laid against him. I think I´ve been pretty clear in my defense. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On May 28 2014 03:10 27ninjabunnies wrote: By meta, isnt slam talking about his own meta? Im not sure how this statement refers to the case at hand. If that's the case, then the second applies: He chose not to comment on it at all. The one post he made was "don't meta me". It's self concerned, and also avoiding the issue. | ||
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27ninjabunnies
United States2486 Posts
On May 28 2014 03:11 mderg wrote: I think it´s good that you pointed it out but how everyone instantly jumps on him that´s what I don´t like. I agree. I even said that in a previous post. My case, i think is solid, but many are jumping on it, which other than you, i expected more opposition. But then again, jabbers partners might just realized he placed himself under the bus so to speak, so are leaving him to die. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
(1) There's no reason for him to raise a false scenario So, both town and mafia can raise scenarios they know to be false. Of course, mafia will - they won't admit they are scum. But, town does do this as well at times. - Sometimes this is to make plays Example: town VT fakeclaims a role to get shot/roleblocks - Sometimes, this is to argue for a position even if the player was scum. Example: town player argues “If I flip town, do ABC; if I flip mafia, do XYZ”). The player knows the second scenario will not happen, but can argue that even if they were scum, a certain play is best for town. Compared with these, I don’t see any redeeming reason for jabberwock’s pushing a point he knows to be incorrect. (2) Jabberwock's Response is Scummy/Weird On May 27 2014 11:24 jabberwockzerg wrote: Didn't realize that was public information My bad I'd expect a town player to say things like they forgot, or yeah I guess that point is invalid, etc. To me, jabberwock's post is essentially saying he didn’t know we would be able to catch him. I guess I don’t find jabberwock’s later post (confused as to the case) to be alignment indicative... I feel like the original posts didn’t state the case that clearly (I think that’s why fuba/me/palmar reposted it). @jabberwock: You’re the strongest wagon at this moment, but I understand some people are hesitating on your lynch. I feel you are a pretty good lynch right now, but I’m open to hearing more from you. Given the discussion around your play, is there anyone you feel has been playing scummy? If you were going to pick someone to vote for, who would that be and why? More in a little bit | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
I can understand you having some hesitation on the initial jabberwockzerg points, though I think it's not a bad argument. What do you think of jabberwock's followup post(s)? For fuba, I understand that you didn't like that he voted for jabber without an explanation. I agree that we needed to press him for a reason, but do you feel like him voting without an explanation was scummy? I take it you do from this post (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=12#224), but I'd have to disagree, I feel that players give reads/votes without explanation as either town or scum. Could you explain your thoughts on this a little more and if your feelings on fuba come from anywhere else? | ||
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27ninjabunnies
United States2486 Posts
Even if he was a bit lurkish during first half of day. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
I meant to ask you yesterday, but forgot. I know we are sort of on other topics now, but could you answer your own early question - What is your take on Alakaslam's posting? | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
Lemme see if I can find some questions for you, you should do the same | ||
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27ninjabunnies
United States2486 Posts
On May 28 2014 03:40 Amiko wrote: @bunnies: I wasn't here most of yesterday - you can trust this because I posted it in my short-lived mafia QT (perhaps the first time we can use 'scumconfirmed' information) :3 lol Lemme see if I can find some questions for you, you should do the same Find questions for me? I love questions. Okay, so you already commented on the jabber thing. What do you think of mderg's defense of jabber, and his questioning of everyone jumping on the wagon, as well as my response to that? And what do you think of fuba's uncertainty and defense of his uncertainty on the lynch of jabber? | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
This is just something I think is kinda weird as an observation, but not scum-indicative. It’s strange to me that your early posts seemed to push against using the prior game for information. However, you end up joining a case that is more or less based on the prior game (on jabberwockzerg). Examples: + Show Spoiler + On May 27 2014 09:37 27ninjabunnies wrote: Lets not talk about previous game roles. On May 27 2014 09:44 27ninjabunnies wrote: I just don't want previous game to carry over to this game I suppose. Because how a person was playing the previous game, might be the same as this game, which could indicate that they are a role or the same role and I don't want to make it easy on mafia  On May 27 2014 10:58 27ninjabunnies wrote: I mean, basically you can discuss whatever. Just dont make your entire filter based off of not game things. Hence me trying to get yall back on track On May 27 2014 11:22 27ninjabunnies wrote: Was he town-halling? I didn't read the birds and the bees qt from last game. Any comments? I'll look for more in a bit. | ||
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27ninjabunnies
United States2486 Posts
On May 28 2014 03:46 Amiko wrote: @27ninjabunnies This is just something I think is kinda weird as an observation, but not scum-indicative. It’s strange to me that your early posts seemed to push against using the prior game for information. However, you end up joining a case that is more or less based on the prior game (on jabberwockzerg). Examples: + Show Spoiler + On May 27 2014 09:37 27ninjabunnies wrote: Lets not talk about previous game roles. On May 27 2014 09:44 27ninjabunnies wrote: I just don't want previous game to carry over to this game I suppose. Because how a person was playing the previous game, might be the same as this game, which could indicate that they are a role or the same role and I don't want to make it easy on mafia On May 27 2014 10:58 27ninjabunnies wrote: I mean, basically you can discuss whatever. Just dont make your entire filter based off of not game things. Hence me trying to get yall back on track On May 27 2014 11:22 27ninjabunnies wrote: Was he town-halling? I didn't read the birds and the bees qt from last game. Any comments? I'll look for more in a bit. Yeah, I mostly meant that for actual roles, like cop/doctor/watcher. And because BH posted the qt where we could see who was burning the planet, it was made as info for everyone. With jabber's comment there, and the fact that someone else pointed out he was in the qt, I just couldn't let that slide. To put suspicion on someone else for being something they weren't when you were actually the one who was, just seems super kicking the water bucket to me. | ||
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sqrtofneg1
Canada1158 Posts
##Vote: jabberwockzerg | ||
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sqrtofneg1
Canada1158 Posts
His case is invalid. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
1) Thoughts on mderg (though I end up talking about jabberwock) I think mderg's point is fair - I basically agree that jabberwock's post makes no sense from town or scum. I know that I am not a scumteam with jabberwock, so I know that his post seems senseless from scum... even if he is scum, even if he thinks that the last game was private, he would know that I am town and that I can reveal chrom was not mafia last game. This is why I have been asking people about jabberwock's followup posts - jabberwock's initial post looks a lot more like a mistake to me than a scumslip. But, I feel like his followup posts are troubling and those are certainly making me feel better about the wagon on him. 2) Thoughts on mderg defense of jabberwock I don't have strong feelings on this. The case isn't ironclad because I feel like almost all of it can be explained by poor play. On the other hand, it'd be tough to make any case on d1 that can't be explained by just poor play :D 3) Thoughts on mderg questioning wagon This is good and I want to see more of it. Even if you feel the case on jabberwock is great and he's the likely lynch, we should be using this time to get more information. We have more info d2 if we make sure to see how everyone respond to the jabberwock wagons, the points from players on it, etc. As an aside, not a fan of this comment for similar reasons. On May 27 2014 21:28 Palmar wrote: Okay I'll be a good sheep. ##vote jabberwockzerg To put in clear terms what the problem I, and clearly others, have is: The point isn't that you screwed it up. The point is that you brought up an argument that you already know is invalid. I don't see any motivation for someone who is town to do that. Unless you can explain why as town it makes sense for you to throw something you know will not help solve the issue at hand into the mix, we're going to have to lynch you. I'm fine with not doing anything else today. This is better than most day 1 lynch opportunities we get. @jabberwockzerg: if you're somehow town, now is your time to step up. I dislike the bolded part for the reasons above, but to be fair it isn't awful in in context (Palmar encourages jabber to act) more in a sec I have to step away a few minutes | ||
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