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I speak of my own meta.
It is self explanatory in any game with Kush while I Spock. For to because my CHUPAZI is the brain I kill the brain, fry is foolish bring into the newbie. To hide behind meta phuulishnissssss Kushm4sta yell LYNCHEE THEE WITH PHYRE!
Do you understand more clearly the direction in which I am speaking?
Now, I still stand by my opinion that a pure meta case is not a reliable tool, enough that I can venture to say it is useless. This is not meta, JWZ meta'd himself with a lie about last game.
That lie and the nature of it is critical.
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I actually like 27NB's original post of jwz which is while I'll be voting for him. Let's talk about who else is scum aside from jwz, at the moment I'm looking a harurh because of his soft defense on jwz. Being pretty open with his defense, and while I think he's wrong, he's coming at it from a townie angle. Harurh on the other hand votes for jwz but then makes side comments in his favor. Thoughts?
Fuba's another possibility but right now I believe his jwz progression.
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Hi MZ~!
First post this game, no?
Greetings.
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What I don't like right now is that my readz may change greatly on whether or not jabber flips scum.
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On May 28 2014 04:30 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
What I don't like right now is that my readz may change greatly on whether or not jabber flips scum.
Im pretty sure everyone's reads will change based in jabber's flip
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So gobble is the only one who hasnt talked yet...
In a minute, im going to do a player analysis on each player... But Ive got to go do something real quick
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On May 28 2014 04:34 27ninjabunnies wrote:
So gobble is the only one who hasnt talked yet...
In a minute, im going to do a player analysis on each player... But Ive got to go do something real quick
Nope.
Gobble has talked.
MZ has talked the least.
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On May 28 2014 04:35 sqrtofneg1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2014 04:34 27ninjabunnies wrote:
So gobble is the only one who hasnt talked yet...
In a minute, im going to do a player analysis on each player... But Ive got to go do something real quick Nope. Gobble has talked. MZ has talked the least.
Ohhhh... Lel. I read his filter.
I was wrong.
Yay everyone has talked atleast once. Now i have something to go on!
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(still replying to bunnies)
- Thoughts on bunnies' response to mderg
@27ninjabunnies: Not a huge fan of your posts responding to mderg.
On May 28 2014 03:04 27ninjabunnies wrote:
(cut)
You are right. Unless amiko is with him, his play would be called out.
However, what was I supposed to do, let it slide and hope that amiko comments on it?
That's not something I would do.
I think this doesn’t address the more important point – whether the comment from jabberwock indicates his alignment. Mderg is saying that there’s a fair chance jabberwock’s comment would get caught, so mafia-jabberwock wouldn’t make the comment.
MDerg isn’t raising this in suspicion of you – it’s pretty immaterial whether you commented on it or not. The point he’s raising (which I think is fine, see prior post) is that he feels it is more likely to be a misplay or misstatement, rather than a scumslip.
I think your subsequent posts do not respond to that point, so I don’t really like your responses.
I guess I’ll mention I dislike a few of your other posts-
On May 28 2014 01:54 27ninjabunnies wrote:
I mean, i think my case is pretty solid. And there are a lot of people who agree (en again not everyone is here and commenting).
I'm quite nervous this might be a mislynch.
This is sort of doubletalk. To be clear, I am not really considering as a lynch possibility, however I figured this was a good time to note that post.
Thoughts on Fuba's uncertainty and defense of uncertainty on jabber?
I like fuba so far.
I always feel a little warm about someone who posts something I was writing just before I post it, and fuba did that earlier so that gave me initially good feelings on him.
Uncertainty makes sense. I think people can feel jabber is scum or town, so uncertainty feels reasonable. I don’t find his vote without explanation to be that meaningful. I feel like this is all stuff that we can reassess if jabber is lynched, but otherwise we need to get fuba to talk about some other points as well.
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@fuba:
What are your thoughts on other players’ approaches to the jabberwock case?
Specifically, I’d like your thoughts on me / mderg / bunnies – comment on one or all, as you like.
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I would personally really like to hear more from harurh.
And fuba
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Finally back at a computer. I'm totally fine lynching jabber for obvious reasons, but I still would like to hear him answer the things I asked him.
Here's the points I've had against him (partially stuff I've already said):
-He deliberately lied this game. As town, he would have had no reason to even think about lying. As scum, he could have felt like he should add something to the conversation/was nervous/a number of other explanations for a mistake. Yes, it's bad play as either alignment. But imagine yourself as town in his situation: there's no way you would lie about it.
-His explanations are inconsistent:
+ Show Spoiler +On May 27 2014 11:50 jabberwockzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2014 11:44 27ninjabunnies wrote:On May 27 2014 11:20 jabberwockzerg wrote:
Counter point: he could have been super into last game because he was mafia, and isn't as into being vanilla town. So let me spell it out. It has to do with this post here. You were a squirrel eating nuts last game, were you not? Yet here, you say he could have been super into the last game because he was also sniffing the maple. Yet, he wasnt. You were. And you didnt know that that knowledge was made public to us. So either you are defending Chrom/slightly bussing here because he is your partner in crime, or you are again down among the badgers as you said chrom was leading more towards being a grim reaper in a town full of sickness, and you want to get him lynched. Clearing this up, I didn't mean mafia specifically, just non vanilla. Was this bad wording? Yes. Stupid of me? Yes. Learning experience, definitely "I didn't mean mafia, I just meant non-vanilla. Bad wording." On May 28 2014 00:21 jabberwockzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2014 23:50 gobbledydook wrote:
Palmar I think there is actually a good motivation for him to say those words. If he had not read the last mafia qt to find out who was mafia and only relied on his memory and impressions, he would logically make that comment about differing playstyles. Sure what he said is factually incorrect but I believe it was an honest mistake.
Just like this I mean, I know this looks bad but this really is a case of Hanlon's razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" Here he agrees with gobble, who's saying that jabber didn't read the last mafia QT or didn't remember who was mafia (obviously not true)..? And also that it was an honest mistake. On May 28 2014 00:36 jabberwockzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2014 00:26 Palmar wrote:On May 27 2014 23:50 gobbledydook wrote:
Palmar I think there is actually a good motivation for him to say those words. If he had not read the last mafia qt to find out who was mafia and only relied on his memory and impressions, he would logically make that comment about differing playstyles. Sure what he said is factually incorrect but I believe it was an honest mistake.
He even posted in that QT, so he read it. On May 28 2014 00:21 jabberwockzerg wrote:
Just like this
I mean, I know this looks bad
but this really is a case of Hanlon's razor:
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" Well explain to me what your point was meant to accomplish? I'm all ears buddy. Keenly, I was trying to think of everything, leaving no stone upturned. I guess I got trapped under one of these stones "I was trying to think of every possible scenario." On May 28 2014 01:14 jabberwockzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2014 20:59 Chromatically wrote:Also, read this whole page again: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=5bunnies starts by (presumably) joking about me being scum, not a serious push as evidenced by not voting. On May 27 2014 11:19 jabberwockzerg wrote:
Both of you make a fair point, but I agree with bunnies.
If he's lurking (he probably is) he'll be quick to post something, which we can further use as more information comes to light This is jabber's passive-agressive response. "he probably is" heavily implies that jabber has a strong scumread on me, which clearly doesn't make sense given that I've made one completely non-alignment indicative post. From a scum perspective, it makes sense for jabber to try to go with the flow of the thread and throw suspicion on me, but accidentally take it too far. On May 27 2014 11:20 jabberwockzerg wrote:
Counter point: he could have been super into last game because he was mafia, and isn't as into being vanilla town. On May 27 2014 11:21 jabberwockzerg wrote:
Definitely leaving towards scum though Again, here he makes it seem as if he strongly thinks I'm scum, which just doesn't make sense unless he has a preset idea of what he wants to push my alignment as. Lovely. I was trying to get the game moving along, I was pretty pumped to start interrogating and scum reading, which isn't how I acted last game, when I was scum. Lying about who was scum last game, I was trying to conceal information. I didn't realize that last game's roles were known, it would be beneficial for me if no one knew I was Mafia, just because there would be no real patterns of my play, and I could remain a wild card, which I thought could help me later. "I was trying to conceal information to help me in this game."
These are all inconsistent with each other: it cannot be an "honest mistake" if he was deliberately concealing information, he clearly didn't mean that I could have been "non-vanilla", not necessarily mafia, if he was concealing information, etc. He's changing his explanation because he's just making them up: he doesn't have a real reason.
-His last explanation is scummy in and of itself, town has no reason to make themselves harder to read.
-He didn't explain himself earlier when he had the opportunity. Town would have explained themselves as soon as they were called out.
##Vote: jabberwockzerg
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On May 28 2014 04:58 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
I would personally really like to hear more from harurh.
And fuba
This is your second post. I would like to hear more from you.
What do you think about the argument that jabberwock's comment would not come from scum or mafia?
In your first post it seems like you suspect players who are defensive of jabberwock, and you mention fuba and haru.
What are your thoughts on mderg?
Alakazam says that mderg's points on jabberwock were not specific (see http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=13#247). Do you agree or disagree?
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On May 28 2014 04:00 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Assume jwz is town. Why would he push a case on chromatically that makes no sense? He knows that chrom wasn't mafia.
His case is invalid.
I think this is scummy given that sqrt had access to this information all the time (he was in the thread when jabber "slipped").
Here was his reaction at that time:
On May 27 2014 11:22 sqrtofneg1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2014 11:20 jabberwockzerg wrote:
Counter point: he could have been super into last game because he was mafia, and isn't as into being vanilla town. Nope. Last game, you, amiko, and epi was mafia. Zat counter point is invalid.
Doesn't call him scum for it at all. Even later, he only once calls him scum, but just for being thrown off his alphabet game.
Now, however, when the jabber lynch has a lot of traction, he jumps on without any reasoning for changing his mind. There are plenty of additional points against jabber concerning his reaction, but that's not the justification sqrt gave. sqrt's explanation for his vote is inconsistent with how he originally reacted to jabber's post.
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@sqrt:
I don't think we've talked yet this game. You became a firebat before me :c
On May 27 2014 23:15 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
I don't like palmar so far.
I do like fuba.
Could you explain both these reads? Right now I am more interested in your read on Palmar so I'd like if you gave more explanation of that one.
Also, would you please comment on jabberwock's posts after the case against him was made?
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Originally, when I first saw that post, what came to my mind was that that counter point was invalid. So I called him out on it.
Today, when I reread that post, I couldn't find a reason why town would say that. So I voted him.
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On May 28 2014 05:11 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2014 04:00 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Assume jwz is town. Why would he push a case on chromatically that makes no sense? He knows that chrom wasn't mafia.
His case is invalid. I think this is scummy given that sqrt had access to this information all the time (he was in the thread when jabber "slipped"). Here was his reaction at that time: Show nested quote +On May 27 2014 11:22 sqrtofneg1 wrote:On May 27 2014 11:20 jabberwockzerg wrote:
Counter point: he could have been super into last game because he was mafia, and isn't as into being vanilla town. Nope. Last game, you, amiko, and epi was mafia. Zat counter point is invalid. Doesn't call him scum for it at all. Even later, he only once calls him scum, but just for being thrown off his alphabet game. Now, however, when the jabber lynch has a lot of traction, he jumps on without any reasoning for changing his mind. There are plenty of additional points against jabber concerning his reaction, but that's not the justification sqrt gave. sqrt's explanation for his vote is inconsistent with how he originally reacted to jabber's post.
Could you clarify - are you suggesting that
(1) sqrt changed his mind from town to scum? or
(2) that sqrt changed his mind from neutral to scum?
Please also clarify if you feel sqrt would be a good lynch alternative to jabberwockzerg
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Above post was @Chromatically
another question to clarify, sorry-
Are you saying it is inconsistent because he gives a justification you disagree with? Or it is inconsistent because there is no justification?
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Hi amiko!
Palmar makes this post here, claiming that bunnies was mafia.
On May 27 2014 18:34 Palmar wrote:
Ninjabunnies is mafia, I'm going to vote him. Then I'm going to read another page of the game.
##Vote Ninjabunnies
it's because he wrote "XD"
When gobble asked him if it was a troll he said this:
On May 27 2014 18:43 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2014 18:41 gobbledydook wrote:On May 27 2014 18:40 Palmar wrote:On May 27 2014 18:36 gobbledydook wrote:On May 27 2014 18:34 Palmar wrote:
Ninjabunnies is mafia, I'm going to vote him. Then I'm going to read another page of the game.
##Vote Ninjabunnies
it's because he wrote "XD" ??? Did you become crazy after getting ##Nuked in that other game? Do you not think this is a valid case? At least you have to explain to me why you disagree. I think it's a pretty strong case. I should add that I combine it with the "ugh" from his first post, oh and his plea that "can we now hunt some scum?". Seems pretty ironclad to me. No I don't think that's a valid case, I think you're trolling. I'm not, why do you think I'm trolling. Granted, I'm only about 2 pages or so into the game as we speak, + skimming Ninja's filter. But I feel pretty good about this. Could you elaborate on why you think I'm trolling? Or at least if there is something you don't understand in my case, ask for an explanation?
He denies that this is a joke.
And he hasn't done anything to promote his case against bunnies. No questions, no nothing. Only voting jwz.
Until I say that I don't like palmar.
And then, soon after, he says that he likes bunnies now.
Seems like he's avoiding my suspicion.
also, my last post didn't have a z in it.....
I think I might desert this rule thingy.
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Vote count:
jabberwockzerg (8) - 27ninjabunnies, HaruRH, fuba, Palmar, fuba, slOosh, Alakaslam, sqrtofneg1, Chromatically,
27ninjabunnies (0) - Palmar
Not voting: - Meapak_Ziphh, gobbledydook, jabberwockzerg, mderg, Amiko,
Currently jabberwockzerg is set to be lynched!
Day ends in
As a reminder, votes not bolded and with ## in front of them won't count. Not trying to be a hard-ass, but it makes finding votes difficult when they aren't formatted properly. Thanks!
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On May 28 2014 05:15 Amiko wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2014 05:11 Chromatically wrote:On May 28 2014 04:00 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Assume jwz is town. Why would he push a case on chromatically that makes no sense? He knows that chrom wasn't mafia.
His case is invalid. I think this is scummy given that sqrt had access to this information all the time (he was in the thread when jabber "slipped"). Here was his reaction at that time: On May 27 2014 11:22 sqrtofneg1 wrote:On May 27 2014 11:20 jabberwockzerg wrote:
Counter point: he could have been super into last game because he was mafia, and isn't as into being vanilla town. Nope. Last game, you, amiko, and epi was mafia. Zat counter point is invalid. Doesn't call him scum for it at all. Even later, he only once calls him scum, but just for being thrown off his alphabet game. Now, however, when the jabber lynch has a lot of traction, he jumps on without any reasoning for changing his mind. There are plenty of additional points against jabber concerning his reaction, but that's not the justification sqrt gave. sqrt's explanation for his vote is inconsistent with how he originally reacted to jabber's post. Could you clarify - are you suggesting that (1) sqrt changed his mind from town to scum? or (2) that sqrt changed his mind from neutral to scum? Please also clarify if you feel sqrt would be a good lynch alternative to jabberwockzerg
My point was that sqrt previously did not have a scumread from that post, and now he wants to lynch jabber for that post with no additional justification, meaning that he's fabricating his read (I guess this is option 2). But, it is possible that he just reread it and changed his mind, as he says.
This was just one sqrt post I had a problem with, still want to lynch jabber by a long shot.
sqrt, is that jabber post the main reason why you are voting him? Like that's the best piece of evidence in your opinion?
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EPT
