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On May 29 2014 07:09 fuba wrote:Looked at gobbledydook first, since his filter is shorter XD His initial reaction to bunnies' case, as well as his follow-up reaction to Palmar seem to indicate that he didn't read the entire case against jabber before disagreeing with it (twice), which I don't feel bodes well for him. I think his jump on the wagon also seems kinda strange, since the reason is kinda lame. I mean, there were plenty of ways in which jabber "admitted guilt", and the fact that he said a stone fell on him is the least of those. It's like he's not really thinking about the game. Problem with this is that it could just be general laziness, rather than him being scum. Show nested quote +On May 28 2014 10:48 gobbledydook wrote:On May 28 2014 10:34 jabberwockzerg wrote:
Top Scum: Palamar
Just started out weird with the whole ninjabunnies vote and never really did anything
top town: any one of the people initially defending me, as most Mafia would want to turn the town against me ASAP You are basically copying what sqrt said about Palmar and not really saying anything about your town reads. I feel sorry for having tried to defend you, you have made no useful contributions all day. All you did is flail around like a magikarp out of water screaming im a noob. Which makes me highly suspect if you aren't flailing on purpose. If jabber flips scum, this quote would make me think gobble is likely town. This was kind of jabber's last stand, and I don't think the scumteam would shoot down their ally like that. Unless it was some kind of elaborate plan to give gobble some slight towncred after the flip, but that's kinda out there. I do have to say that I don't entirely understand what that last sentence means. As for what he's said about MZ, I'd have to form an opinion of MZ for myself first XD
I kinda disagree with this. I think that even though the fact that he probably didn´t read the case properly, not knowing jabber was mafia last game is leaning more towards town than scum. But I agree that his reason for voting jabber was unconvincing.
I´m not sure, if shooting down their ally is that unrealistic. Jabber was already very likely to be lynched. So why not deal the final blows to gain credibility?
I think gobbledydook´s play was strange so far. I think he´s been under the radar and we should have some conversation with him. That´s also the reason for bringing his name up in this phase of the game.
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Now on to Meapak. I think he might be the scum we´re looking for.
On May 28 2014 04:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
I actually like 27NB's original post of jwz which is while I'll be voting for him. Let's talk about who else is scum aside from jwz, at the moment I'm looking a harurh because of his soft defense on jwz. mderg? Being pretty open with his defense, and while I think he's wrong, he's coming at it from a townie angle. Harurh on the other hand votes for jwz but then makes side comments in his favor. Thoughts?
Fuba's another possibility but right now I believe his jwz progression.
I don´t agree with his reasoning to vote for jabber but that´s not scummy in itself. What I really don´t like is the part about HaruRH. He assumes jabber is scum but in that case I think it´s way more likely for scum to completely bus him and hide under all the other votes on him. He also never really makes a follow up to this.
On May 28 2014 07:54 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2014 07:42 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
My point is this: Huge bandwagons always seem to be town bandwagons.
(cruisette mislynch in liii, cav mislynch in liv, sweetfrost mislynch and yellow suspection in lv, OdinofPergo in golden sun)
Jwz is my top scum read so far.
I was considering pushing a palmar lynch because he's my second scum read, and huge bandwagons always seem to be wrong. I could see myself convinced of a Palmar lynch, however let's not get too far ahead our ourselves. imo jwz is still the best choice and his lack of serious defense is only solidifying that.
I think it would have been helpful to give reasons why he could be convinced of a Palmar lynch. To me it seems like searching for someone to sheep the lynch from.
The part about sqrt is not actually something I see as scummy because it pushes for better information.
I like how he defends me for my jabber defense.
On May 29 2014 04:36 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
hmm I'm a bit suspect of people trying to develop a second wagon at the same time as they're voting JWZ. Either say you've changed your mind about jwz and explain why or start developing reads for tomorrow.
##Vote: jabberwockzerg
Thought there was a voting thread lol
This part of his play seems good to me. This feels like he´s being critical about the ongoings and is trying to solve the game.
So I liked how he defended me and was critically questioning a second bandwagon. But I didn´t like how he pushed HaruRH without following up at all. I also don´t like how he was basically just waiting for someone to make a case on Palmar.
Overall I´m not convinced by his play. Everything I liked about his play posts about things surrounding the jabber lynch. He´s made some weird pushes without proper follow up which is what makes me think he might be scum.
##vote: Meapak_Ziphh
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Vote count:
jabberwockzerg (11) - 27ninjabunnies, HaruRH, fuba, Palmar, fuba, slOosh, Alakaslam, sqrtofneg1, Chromatically, sqrtofneg1, gobbledydook, Meapak_Ziphh, Amiko, sqrtofneg1
fuba (1) - sqrtofneg1
Meapak_Ziphh (1) - mderg
27ninjabunnies (0) - Palmar
Palmar(0) - sqrtofneg1, sqrtofneg1
Not voting: - jabberwockzerg
Currently jabberwockzerg is set to be lynched!
Day ends in
PM me if you see a mistake!
Remember, voting is mandatory![/QUOTE]
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On May 29 2014 07:09 fuba wrote:
Looked at gobbledydook first, since his filter is shorter XD
His initial reaction to bunnies' case, as well as his follow-up reaction to Palmar seem to indicate that he didn't read the entire case against jabber before disagreeing with it (twice), which I don't feel bodes well for him. I think his jump on the wagon also seems kinda strange, since the reason is kinda lame. I mean, there were plenty of ways in which jabber "admitted guilt", and the fact that he said a stone fell on him is the least of those. It's like he's not really thinking about the game. Problem with this is that it could just be general laziness, rather than him being scum.
I'm confused by the bolded. I don't think it makes any sense. I don't think him reacting to my shit on Ninja has anything to do with jabber, but I could be wrong.
Please elaborate. This looks off.
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We're not last minuting off this wagon. If it's a mislynch we can deal with it. Stop proposing these alternative wagons.
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I was trying to throw baits the entire game, from less obvious ones to very obvious ones. Lets go through my thought process one by one shall we
I was initially reading jabber as VT with a shitty play - but changed the moment he gave such crap replies. Thus I was almost certain he was scum, but one cannot be too certain and I started throwing mini baits here and there.
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The problem is, I am not 100% certain jabbet is the scum we are looking for. This may be looking like scummy play to you, but when the jabber-wagon departs from the station, I'll have a clearer picture other than 10 fingers pointing at jabber for scum
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On May 27 2014 21:28 Palmar wrote:Okay I'll be a good sheep. ##vote jabberwockzergTo put in clear terms what the problem I, and clearly others, have is: Show nested quote +On May 27 2014 11:38 jabberwockzerg wrote:
I don't quite follow your logic. You put me on mafia last game, and I screwed up about if that was posted or not, but that makes me mafia this game? No comprende The point isn't that you screwed it up. The point is that you brought up an argument that you already know is invalid. I don't see any motivation for someone who is town to do that. Show nested quote +On May 27 2014 11:20 jabberwockzerg wrote:
Counter point: he could have been super into last game because he was mafia, and isn't as into being vanilla town. Unless you can explain why as town it makes sense for you to throw something you know will not help solve the issue at hand into the mix, we're going to have to lynch you. I'm fine with not doing anything else today. This is better than most day 1 lynch opportunities we get. @jabberwockzerg: if you're somehow town, now is your time to step up.
On May 27 2014 23:50 gobbledydook wrote:
Palmar I think there is actually a good motivation for him to say those words. If he had not read the last mafia qt to find out who was mafia and only relied on his memory and impressions, he would logically make that comment about differing playstyles. Sure what he said is factually incorrect but I believe it was an honest mistake.
Is the second quote not about the first quote?
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my mistake fuba, I forgot about that post.
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On May 29 2014 08:38 Palmar wrote:
We're not last minuting off this wagon. If it's a mislynch we can deal with it. Stop proposing these alternative wagons.
Why?
If we all have the same primary scum wagon, I think it's good to see how people think on secondary scumwagons.
I'll grant the information isn't too reliable (since the secondary wagons don't have much chance of being lynched) but I think it's good to see people making cases on other players.
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On May 29 2014 09:00 Amiko wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 08:38 Palmar wrote:
We're not last minuting off this wagon. If it's a mislynch we can deal with it. Stop proposing these alternative wagons. Why? If we all have the same primary scum wagon, I think it's good to see how people think on secondary scumwagons. I'll grant the information isn't too reliable (since the secondary wagons don't have much chance of being lynched) but I think it's good to see people making cases on other players.
I'm going to sleep and I'm afraid people do stupid stuff. I've seen some shit man, you wouldn't even believe.
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On May 29 2014 04:24 Amiko wrote:I am working through reads on other players but here's one I will put up while I work on the others on HaruRH. HaruRH has made some comments I think are scummy or weird, if you are in thread and don't have other stuff to talk about, let me know what you think. 1) Seems to have joined JWZ case on grounds that feel overly non-committalAfter a case is made on jabberwockzerg, HaruRH presents the case as a gamble and talks a bit about odds - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=6#109. To me, this seems like a strange view. If you feel you want to go with the odds, JWZ is no more or less likely to be scum than anyone else. I dislike this for two reasons. (1) it gives no response on ninjabunnies' points; (2) it does not tie him to his vote on JWZ at all - his justification (probability) applies equally to everyone. 2) Tells JWZ to talk about things other than the case on him, but will only unvote JWZ if he addresses the case on himHaruRH more or less suggests JWZ change the subject to avoid getting votes http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=130&topic_id=451317. Initially, I didn't think this was bad - I also wanted to see JWZ scumhunt and talk about other issues, and some other players asked for that as well (Palmar comes to mind). But, HaruRH then says Show nested quote +On May 27 2014 15:51 HaruRH wrote:
what I understood from all jabber's responses are either a high level of newbie play, or scum. I will provide examples later after I get on a computer.
Will not unvote until jabber defends himself convincingly
This is weird because he's told jabber to talk about something else... but won't unvote unless jabber talks more about the topic. 3) Weird role commentsShow nested quote +On May 28 2014 22:33 HaruRH wrote:
I would give it a 30% chance to be 1) and a 70% chance to be 2). The only problem is the non-vanilla townies now. Who will they protect/scan/roleblock?
By the way, which setup was used? A/B/C? Could be important for us VT to know. This feels strange to me for a few reasons as well. (1) There's no point to claiming VT at this time (or in general). (2) I don't understand how he manages to see the different roles in the OP, but misses the red text underneath saying we don't know the setup. Show nested quote +On May 27 2014 09:08 Blazinghand wrote:
This game uses a variable open setup. When the game begins, one of the following setups will be chosen:
A) 1 Town Cop, 1 Town Doctor, 8 Vanilla Townies, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 2 Mafia Goons
B) 1 Town Cop, 1 Town Watcher, 8 Vanilla Townies, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 2 Mafia Goons
C) 1 Town Doctor, 1 Town Watcher, 8 Vanilla Townies, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 2 Mafia Goons
The mafia will be informed as to which setup is chosen, but the town will not!
I don't see why he'd start thinking about the setup at this point. This post could be trying to role-fish because he is thinking about night kills.
You need to read all the points in context - I suggested for jabber to change topics, but his reply and subsequent posts were questionable or scummy. But he is not definitely scum, but more likely to be scum than others. I would give it a 30% probability he is scum, 50% shit play and 20% VT.
in fact, it is not surprising for people in this newbie game to get baited by this simple setup bait. Read the posts after this post, you should know what I mean.
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come on bold
##vote: Meapak_Ziphh
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On May 28 2014 22:37 Palmar wrote:
I don't think we know which setup was used.
In fact, palmar seemed to have been baited. It is obvious to VT that we dont know the setup - but palmar is second guessing his own decision of not knowing the setup. A townie will not state 'I don't think', but use stronger words that indicate full understanding of the rules.
Therefore, palmar is either scum or ignorant and I would go with scum. I will keep an eye out for more of his posts.
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On May 28 2014 22:58 Chromatically wrote:
Why would the setup be important for you to know? How is this relevant at all to the situation?
Chrom's first reaction of asking why I want to know the setup gives me the read that he is VT as he is more worried about what I will do with the setup than if we know the setup. This means that he is looking to defend Town than to start guessing roles, which is scum play.
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On May 29 2014 09:13 HaruRH wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2014 22:37 Palmar wrote:
I don't think we know which setup was used. In fact, palmar seemed to have been baited. It is obvious to VT that we dont know the setup - but palmar is second guessing his own decision of not knowing the setup. A townie will not state 'I don't think', but use stronger words that indicate full understanding of the rules. Therefore, palmar is either scum or ignorant and I would go with scum. I will keep an eye out for more of his posts.
Eh, he also didn't know that there wasn't a vigi in this game (I think that was him). I think he just plays mafia and checks the setup if it's really important for him to do so. Actually, mafia would know that they were given the setup, so I think scum palmar would be more likely to actually know that town doesn't know. If that makes sense, haha.
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On May 27 2014 21:29 Palmar wrote:
Just read Chrome's post above. I'm feeling good about this lynch. All on board!
What I don't like about palmar's post is that he initially is certain about a jabber lynch
On May 28 2014 21:11 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2014 20:37 Chromatically wrote:On May 28 2014 20:11 Palmar wrote:
Don't ask hard questions Chrom, he might not have an answer right now. hue hue hue Palmar, you still feeling good about this lynch? Amiko, I don't see you pushing anything. Who do you want to lynch and what's your read on jabber? I don't know. I think we have to lynch him. He's flailing so much and saying all the wrong things even after coming back to the thread makes it hard to think he will 100% flip mafia. If he is mafia he is not receiving any help from coaches or teammates.
And then second guess himself by stating that he thinks jabber is 'too scum to be scum'. Weak argument, but I get his point about his coaches and allies helping him. Which is what he is doing now, helping jabber by second guessing jabber?
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On May 29 2014 09:25 fuba wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 09:13 HaruRH wrote:On May 28 2014 22:37 Palmar wrote:
I don't think we know which setup was used. In fact, palmar seemed to have been baited. It is obvious to VT that we dont know the setup - but palmar is second guessing his own decision of not knowing the setup. A townie will not state 'I don't think', but use stronger words that indicate full understanding of the rules. Therefore, palmar is either scum or ignorant and I would go with scum. I will keep an eye out for more of his posts. Eh, he also didn't know that there wasn't a vigi in this game (I think that was him). I think he just plays mafia and checks the setup if it's really important for him to do so. Actually, mafia would know that they were given the setup, so I think scum palmar would be more likely to actually know that town doesn't know. If that makes sense, haha.
That doesn't to me. In fact, I actually read the whole rules and roles because it may actually be important in the future. He was pushing a strategy with vigi, but failed to realise vigi dont exist. Everyone knows mafia was given the setup. Dont use ignorance as an argument, it is weak. What it simply tells me is that the 2 things on his mind were 'vigi' and 'role setup'.
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EPT
