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On May 29 2014 05:21 Amiko wrote:Oh, I had a point on Palmar I intended to raise and I just don't want to forget about it, and sqrt/others you can consider it if you want: I do townread Palmar for his play d1. But, I do think his meta works against a townread on him. Palmar self-described himself as follows in the "game of champions" Show nested quote +"Traditionally I am a very strong town player and a mediocre scum player. My greatest strengths in mafia is first and foremost a very strong day 1, and the ability to lead and influence towns."
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/59/puzzles-other-games/3-game-mafia-champions-ww-invitational-game-thread-1428519/index2.htmlI won't talk about that game very much because I don't want to make Palmar cry ( I didn't read the whole thing anyway, but I am not sure the players did either) (j/k you guys were pretty cool). On a meta-level, I don't think I'd say Palmar has led town D1, it feels more like he has played a supportive role by encouraging the lynch on JWZ. It does make it a little more possible that he is opportunistic mafia pushing for a lynch. I still feel better about my townread, though.
I agree that it works against him but I generally hate everything that´s based on self meta. So I take this with a grain of salt.
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Blazinghand
United States25560 Posts
Vote count:
jabberwockzerg (11) - 27ninjabunnies, HaruRH, fuba, Palmar, fuba, slOosh, Alakaslam, sqrtofneg1, Chromatically, sqrtofneg1, gobbledydook, Meapak_Ziphh, Amiko, sqrtofneg1
27ninjabunnies (0) - Palmar
Palmar(0) - sqrtofneg1, sqrtofneg1
Not voting: - jabberwockzerg, mderg
Currently jabberwockzerg is set to be lynched!
Day ends in
PM me if you see a mistake!
Remember, voting is mandatory!
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mderg why don't you try to heroically save the town from a mislynch
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How am I supposed to do that? You should all realize that something is wrong with that lynch, if every vote is on jabber. It would feel stupid to repeat the reasons why I defended jabber but I can´t give anything else, if he doesn´t post.
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mderg what I can absolutely not understand is how you haven't done anything all day except defend jabber. You have not pushed any other target at all. What are you doing? A townie who wants a successful lynch would be pushing who they think is scum, not doing nothing at all except for defending someone.
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On May 29 2014 05:56 Chromatically wrote:
mderg what I can absolutely not understand is how you haven't done anything all day except defend jabber. You have not pushed any other target at all. What are you doing? A townie who wants a successful lynch would be pushing who they think is scum, not doing nothing at all except for defending someone.
The thing is that it´s difficult to make cases, if everyone does the same. It´s not like I have completely ignored others but sadly there´s limited information to go on.
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I have to go now, I will probably not be back (except for limited phone posting) before deadline.
I recommend staying the course on jabber.
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Every vote wasn't on jabber. It's taken the majority of two days to get the vote to reach this point. There's been significant discussion about it, and there are legitimate reasons to consider him scum.
I'd also like to point out that jabber hasn't been defending himself or offering an alternative wagon for the last 20 hours or so. This tends to be a scum reaction to a large wagon building against them, rather than a town reaction.
If anyone has a specific person they'd like me to comment on, I might have time to squeeze in a filter dive before the deadline. My quick read through the thread didn't leave a whole lot of time for contemplation. I can say that no one struck me as more likely to be scum than jabber. I know a few people asked me specific questions, so I'll try to answer those in the meantime. Just gotta find 'em.
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Yeah, agree with mderg here. Everyone is votig jabber... That is super odd
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That's what I was trying to point out.
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I don't like this.
I now think jwz is town.
##Unvote
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@fuba: anything about Meapak or gobbledydook? I feel like they´ve been kinda ignored for some time.
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Sqrt you change your mind sooo much
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I propose a new wagon:
Fuba.
He votes jwz, and then unvotes him the next post with this explanation:
On May 27 2014 15:31 fuba wrote:
But the last game was Classroom, the game that got remade. And since jabber was scum in that game, he knew that Chrom wasn't. Which means that he knew chrom wasn't scum, but suggested that possibility anyway. While I can't give an exact reason for scum|jabber to lie, I don't see any reason for town|jabber to.
...Though now that I think of it, unless the scumteam is the exact three people it was last time, then jabber would be incredibly unlikely to intentionally lie about who was on it, since at least one scum from last game would be town this game and would point out that he's lying. So either this was just a mistake on his part or I'm misunderstanding some part of the interaction. Either way, I'm pretty sure I've talked myself out of this...
##Unvote
Soon after, he votes him again.
His next significant post, and his last post is this:
On May 29 2014 06:35 fuba wrote:
Every vote wasn't on jabber. It's taken the majority of two days to get the vote to reach this point. There's been significant discussion about it, and there are legitimate reasons to consider him scum.
I'd also like to point out that jabber hasn't been defending himself or offering an alternative wagon for the last 20 hours or so. This tends to be a scum reaction to a large wagon building against them, rather than a town reaction.
If anyone has a specific person they'd like me to comment on, I might have time to squeeze in a filter dive before the deadline. My quick read through the thread didn't leave a whole lot of time for contemplation. I can say that no one struck me as more likely to be scum than jabber. I know a few people asked me specific questions, so I'll try to answer those in the meantime. Just gotta find 'em.
Has there been significant discussion about jwz?
Also, I disagree that the fact that he hasn't defended himself or offered an alternative wagon indicates that he's scum. I feel that jwz's attitude right now is more like a town who's resigned to being mislynched.
This guy hasn't made much contributions.
This guy doesn't look like town to me.
This guy is scum.
##Vote: fuba
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On May 29 2014 07:03 27ninjabunnies wrote:
Sqrt you change your mind sooo much
Yes, I do.
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Looked at gobbledydook first, since his filter is shorter XD
His initial reaction to bunnies' case, as well as his follow-up reaction to Palmar seem to indicate that he didn't read the entire case against jabber before disagreeing with it (twice), which I don't feel bodes well for him. I think his jump on the wagon also seems kinda strange, since the reason is kinda lame. I mean, there were plenty of ways in which jabber "admitted guilt", and the fact that he said a stone fell on him is the least of those. It's like he's not really thinking about the game. Problem with this is that it could just be general laziness, rather than him being scum.
On May 28 2014 10:48 gobbledydook wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2014 10:34 jabberwockzerg wrote:
Top Scum: Palamar
Just started out weird with the whole ninjabunnies vote and never really did anything
top town: any one of the people initially defending me, as most Mafia would want to turn the town against me ASAP You are basically copying what sqrt said about Palmar and not really saying anything about your town reads. I feel sorry for having tried to defend you, you have made no useful contributions all day. All you did is flail around like a magikarp out of water screaming im a noob. Which makes me highly suspect if you aren't flailing on purpose.
If jabber flips scum, this quote would make me think gobble is likely town. This was kind of jabber's last stand, and I don't think the scumteam would shoot down their ally like that. Unless it was some kind of elaborate plan to give gobble some slight towncred after the flip, but that's kinda out there. I do have to say that I don't entirely understand what that last sentence means.
As for what he's said about MZ, I'd have to form an opinion of MZ for myself first XD
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On May 29 2014 07:05 sqrtofneg1 wrote:I propose a new wagon: Fuba. He votes jwz, and then unvotes him the next post with this explanation: Show nested quote +On May 27 2014 15:31 fuba wrote:
But the last game was Classroom, the game that got remade. And since jabber was scum in that game, he knew that Chrom wasn't. Which means that he knew chrom wasn't scum, but suggested that possibility anyway. While I can't give an exact reason for scum|jabber to lie, I don't see any reason for town|jabber to.
...Though now that I think of it, unless the scumteam is the exact three people it was last time, then jabber would be incredibly unlikely to intentionally lie about who was on it, since at least one scum from last game would be town this game and would point out that he's lying. So either this was just a mistake on his part or I'm misunderstanding some part of the interaction. Either way, I'm pretty sure I've talked myself out of this...
##Unvote Soon after, he votes him again. His next significant post, and his last post is this: Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 06:35 fuba wrote:
Every vote wasn't on jabber. It's taken the majority of two days to get the vote to reach this point. There's been significant discussion about it, and there are legitimate reasons to consider him scum.
I'd also like to point out that jabber hasn't been defending himself or offering an alternative wagon for the last 20 hours or so. This tends to be a scum reaction to a large wagon building against them, rather than a town reaction.
If anyone has a specific person they'd like me to comment on, I might have time to squeeze in a filter dive before the deadline. My quick read through the thread didn't leave a whole lot of time for contemplation. I can say that no one struck me as more likely to be scum than jabber. I know a few people asked me specific questions, so I'll try to answer those in the meantime. Just gotta find 'em. Has there been significant discussion about jwz? Also, I disagree that the fact that he hasn't defended himself or offered an alternative wagon indicates that he's scum. I feel that jwz's attitude right now is more like a town who's resigned to being mislynched. This guy hasn't made much contributions. This guy doesn't look like town to me. This guy is scum. ##Vote: fuba
lol
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I guess I'm scummy if you ignore all of my reasoning.
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It's not that weird to me that everyone is voting for jabber - I think the initial suspicion of him was fair and the responses by him were really inadequate.
I think we are more likely to hit scum with this than if our votes were scattered across a lot of players, since then mafia would have a chance to manipulate the votes. I would have liked to see 3-4 votes on someone else but I feel like that ship has sailed.
To me the problem was/is that we don't get much information from this vote besides his role. There's a few things I'm comfortable drawing from the current votes (Ex: The scumteam probably is not a three-person combination of 27ninjabunnies/HaruRH/fuba because they were the first three to vote on jabber and it seems like an over-commitment to lynch a VT who doesn't have a history). But, it's pretty sparse from my point of view. I guess I just don't see a choice.
For what it's worth, I don't think non-response by jabber is that indicative. Most (all?) of my forum games had a mislynch D1, in some the town players talked back a lot and in others they quietly died. I do think the responses we did get were suspicious, though.
Yeah, the votes could be better. Basically if we get scum we did good, if we hit town we go into d2 without information from votes. I think it's okay since there has been a fair amount of discussion around the lynch and some alternatives were raised, too.
(I'll still be here if Haru wants to scumclaim though :3_
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EBWOP: To be clear what I mean by the responses we did get, I mean the responses we got in this game from jabberwockzerg.
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EPT
