EPT/in
Doctor Who Mafia 2
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
/in | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
 Maybe this game will be enough to make me watch some Dr. Who? | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
I'll be here most of today. Does anyone want to play doctor~? | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
On March 30 2014 06:20 Alakaslam wrote: Xata I self vote for real lol slam my bud you must self vote in the thread | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
On March 30 2014 06:43 Alakaslam wrote: He knows I knows he knows having gatorade or wine? I'm following thread but don't have much to say on the meta discussions, will get a little food and come back! | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
@Alakaslam: Does your phone recognize the word chupazi? @gumshoe: I am a good companion but I don't really have curves... + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/nAThRVd.png) | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
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Amiko
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
On March 30 2014 08:51 thrawn2112 wrote: i might policy lynch dr who roleplayers because i cannot understand anything they're talking about Earlier in the week I was going to try to look up some Dr. Who aliens to try to speculate at setups. I have a few ideas but there are so many alien races... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Doctor_Who_universe_creatures_and_aliens Pipe people and the pied piper! Pig slave and space pig! I think maybe this game is just an excuse for Xatalos to get us to read his Dr. Who fanfiction :o On March 30 2014 06:00 Xatalos wrote: He whipped out his sonic screwdriver yea gurl | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
On March 30 2014 06:54 thrawn2112 wrote: kita why am I voting for rayn? On March 30 2014 07:40 kitaman27 wrote: Voting for buddy vote. I don't like friends. ##Unovte ##Vote thrawn2112 hey kita why is thrawn voting for rayn? | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
Initial Comments on raynpelikoneet & alakaslam: It seems to me that most d1 games get going by focusing on some interaction and then working off the reads for that interaction. I posted the comment & question because it seemed like the raynpelikoneet/Alakaslam interaction was a potential focus, but I didn’t understand it enough. To be more specific, I couldn’t tell whether it was early game silliness or actually based on some meta you two have. Asking Kita & Hopeless: I think your question is good (why not ask the people involved to explain) but it wasn’t a good option at that time. I didn’t ask you because you had already gone to sleep. I didn’t ask Alakaslam because I felt I may not understand his response. I picked kitaman27/hopeless because (1) they were in the thread and (2) hopeless’ interactions with you two stuck out a little. I don’t think I considered asking gumshoe since we were being silly at the time. @rayn You say you were in the thread here: On March 30 2014 15:58 raynpelikoneet wrote: Do you see any reason why town!Amiko asks you or Hopeless to clarify my thought process instead of asking me (i was btw in thread aswell)? However, you also said you had left the thread here: On March 30 2014 08:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: gn guys! Besides the inconsistency, if you were in the thread why didn’t you comment on the situation at the time? Catching up, will make another post or two in a few minutes | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
Massclaim On March 30 2014 16:54 raynpelikoneet wrote: Who's in for massclaiming? Answer yes or no in your next post. My answer is yes. My answer is no - I don't see many (any?) advantages for this in a closed setup. If it was a serious suggestion then I'm wiling to talk about it, though, and it looks like we are both on. [u]Other Questions @anyone what is LHF? @kitaman27 I don’t see your original vote on thrawn2112 as scummy, but can you explain why you initially withheld your reasons for voting for thrawn (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21085439)? [/i] | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
“LHF” It was from a slam post here- On March 30 2014 06:27 Alakaslam wrote: Toad same question. Don't go slandering saying I still don't help town. I'm not gonna be an NK in that yeah I generally suxxor but apparently there is a meta I can't fight so ppl will know im town in time. On the other hand you guys blatantly LHF the first guy Rayn prods- note he didn't vote me himself! Re: voting - I’m considering voting slam - I was rereading him (and saw LHF). I don’t want to vote Slam right now, though: there’s over a day left, slam is already getting pressured, and I’d rather lynch scum than 3rd party survivor. Massclaim On March 31 2014 01:07 raynpelikoneet wrote: I guess this game is highly roled knowing it's Crossfire game and a closed setup with some sort of yak mechanic(s). In games where there are high number of roles massclaiming always benefits town. Always. I agree with the first sentence. I don’t know all the Dr. Who lore but even light wiki + the game description suggests cybermen/scum can probably convert targets to become cybermen/scum. I don’t see how massclaiming helps us, though. In an open setup, it immediately gives you pools of people to vote for – if two people claim cop, then you know one is lying. If more people claim VT than can be VT, you have a nice pool of people to lynch from and may confirm some of your power roles. In a closed setup, though, I am not sure how that is effective. - People can fabricate all sorts of weird roles that may be real given the expansive dr. who universe; - We are likely to lose power roles to at least two non-town parties (dalek/cybermen), maybe more; - If a lot of people just claim VT, we don’t have a heuristic to determine how many VTs there can be - Even if someone feels confirmed due to being the only one to claim a likely role (ex: Dr. Who/Amy/Rory/River who appear in xatalos’ post) the person doesn’t stay trustworthy because there are conversions. So, I feel like we don’t gain anything from a massclaim. If I am wrong explain why. If there is a heavily flavored closed setups thread with a massclaim, I'm willing to skim it and reevaluate. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
So I skimmed through the crossfire game linked by rayn. I do agree that the claims were beneficial to town in that game, but I feel my concerns from my earlier post are mostly still applicable. Rayn addresses the game setup here (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=20200468) – there are a lot of distinctions, but these are the important ones, I think: - In the prior game, people could confirm their claimed powers by affecting the vote count. In this game, we don’t know whether people can confirm they have powers they claim. - In the prior game, there was not a risk of alignment change (unless I missed something). In this game, a town claim we believe may be converted into scum. Some of my other concerns are still applicable, too (fabricated roles). raynpelikoneet vote on Alakaslam After thinking about it a little, I actually feel a little better about rayn’s justification for voting Alakaslam. I think we can summarize his argument as, Alakaslam may be scum (scum claiming survivor) or he may be survivor (3rd party) but we know he isn’t town, so he is a good/safe-ish lynch. tehpoofter on raynpelikoneet I really dislike poofter’s vote on raynpelikoneet. One- I have trouble seeing rayn’s push on Alakaslam as scummy. Two- I think the criticism of rayn for pushing slam lynch (and not focusing other people) doesn’t make much sense since rayn is doing other things (pushing for massclaim, giving reads, questioning players including me). Three- I don’t disagree with your read that rayn saying he doesn’t care is scum – he actually did something pretty similar same thing in the game he linked and flipped scum there. However, I don’t put much into rayn’s “I don’t care” in that post because right after it he gives some reads. Vote I don’t feel great about the Alakaslam lynch, but I think it’s pretty good and is a def. a better lynch than rayn. The two are vote tied so I’m going to ##Vote: Alakaslam (I think it is a little sad we are lynching Alakaslam when he seems to be posting coherently though, shouldn’t we be encouraging that?) @Alakaslam: Right now I don't want to lynch rayn. If we were going to lynch someone other than you two, who would you pick and why? | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
On March 31 2014 04:29 Alakaslam wrote: No no just go fulfill my prophecy @Alakaslam Slam I think right now my feeling for voting you is, at worse we lynch someone who isn't town, at best we lynch mafia. We can look at your reads after you are lynched but let's look at them now instead. I see your reads as: rayn -> you see as scummy, you voted him kitaman -> his vote was suspicious thrawn -> scum with rayn djo -> likely scum so I am wondering why you didn't answer me with kita/thrawn/djo? Also if it cheers you up alakaslam, I looked for on the Dr. Who creature list to see if there was a creature like a planar dragon. There isn't a planar dragon but there is a dragon. It that lives on "Svartos" and that made me happy because the word is a little like Svengali. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
On March 31 2014 04:51 Djodref wrote: What do you mean by cop-out ? I understand "copping out" as posting noncommittally or refusing to take responsibility. Like, if I said "let's all massclaim" and then when it kills everyone said "well it was rayn's idea so it's not my fault" I'd be copping out because I am not taking responsibility for encouraging the idea. If he means it differently he can say so though | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
On March 31 2014 04:58 raynpelikoneet wrote: Amiko have you anything to say about people who might be mafia who are not Slam? Like all you've done so far is defending me, talking about mechanics and talking about Slam. None of those things are interesting. I can talk a little more but don't think it'll interest you much: I took kitaman27's vote on thrawn2112 as somewhat scummy. I'm fine with writing off kita's initial vote as RVS, but his later vote on thrawn for joining him seemed late. I don't feel that committed, though, because I have trouble pointing to where exactly RVS does end in this game. I thought Vivax's post here was fine (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445571-doctor-who-mafia-2?page=22#426) but his post here felt out of place given the thread direction (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445571-doctor-who-mafia-2?page=26#502) Although I disagreed with tehpoofter on his vote on you, I don't read him as scummy from the post. If you want to drop discussion of massclaims that's fine, but if you think it'll help town I'm glad to engage on that topic more. @tehpoofter Slam as Survivor or Mafia On March 31 2014 04:58 Tehpoofter wrote: which of your 2 scenarios do you feel is more likely? I think it is more likely he is a survivor than a mafia. It's not based on much, but I the way he claimed felt more like an offhand comment and not in a defensive post to try to get votes off of him. I don't know Alakaslam meta besides that he uses unusual words so I'm willing to sheep somewhat on reading him while asking him some questions myself. @tehpoofter What do you think of my comments on your vote on Alakaslam in this post (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21089733)? | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
On March 31 2014 05:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: Amiko why is the Vivax' post you pointed out fine? I agree the second post is really bad. Like there is nothing it can possibly achieve as town. I ask hopeless1der to explain the interactions between raynpelikoneet & alakaslam. Hopeless1der says Alakaslam is usually unreadable and implies that he should be lynched. However, earlier Hopeless1der says Alakaslam is town in the post Vivax highlights. Initially I would take the read as a joke, but Hopeless does refer to it again here (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445571-doctor-who-mafia-2?page=11#201) before calling it a joke in response to Vivax's question (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445571-doctor-who-mafia-2?page=22#428). So basically, I felt Vivax's question (is it a joke) is justified because it looked like a joke, but got referred back to by hopeless. Not great but fine. -- Building off that, if hopeless' true read of slam is "town" then his last few posts are a little worrying because they do not seem to defend slam at all. If hopeless' true read of slam is "can't read" then I guess his play is consistent. The subsequent posts I'm talking about are: On March 31 2014 04:19 Hopeless1der wrote: Slam will you flip town? On March 31 2014 04:26 Hopeless1der wrote: Slam you have no chance of reasoning with rayn. The best thing you can hope for is that he diverts onto some other sucker in the meantime. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
On March 30 2014 06:29 Hopeless1der wrote: slam i called you town right afterwards and didnt vote you to begin with big whoop, wanna fight about it? so I think it is fine to question whether the prior post was a joke because he was referring to it again. I don't think this conversation is too good but we can talk about it more if you want, I will stick around for about another hour so I can needle another game :3 @raynpelikoneet: What do you think of Toad's comments on hopeless' posts here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445571-doctor-who-mafia-2?page=18#347 ? (I thought you commented on them but then I couldn't find them in the thread) - On March 30 2014 16:30 Toadesstern wrote: I don't actually have a vote. Or rather I have one but it doesn't count. I still have to vote though. @Toadesstern: Do you have some power in addition to your null-vote? I am fine with you not saying what the power is right now. @Toadesstern: Since your post mentions a power, let me ask what do you think of raynpelikoneet's suggestion of massclaiming? | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
On March 31 2014 05:49 Tehpoofter wrote: MY vote on Slam or my Vote on rayn? Cause unless I'm derp the post you linked is you talking about my vote on rayn. Meant rayn. Sorry, I seem to swap names in forum mafia sometimes. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
On March 31 2014 05:55 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't know what the reasoning behind the comments are because Toad does not explain it. I agree with you - I feel like Toad does not explain his rationale. Even if the read is coming from Foolishness, we don't get any explanation as to why they developed the read they made. And now, although you agree that Toad doesn't explain, you seem willing to agree anyway- On March 30 2014 15:45 raynpelikoneet wrote: Not only that but if you are ever to flip town in this game i want to lynch Hopeless. Not because i necessarily trust your read but because i trust Foolishness' read. *sigh* On March 30 2014 16:11 raynpelikoneet wrote: Probably town if Hopeless is mafia. I trust Foolishness the most atm. ##unvote ##vote Hopeless1der | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
On March 30 2014 16:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: I did answer it. He says stuff that's okay lately but he could say that same stuff as mafia aswell. So i can't tell if he is town or mafia. If he is right on his Hopeless case (which sounds fine) he is probably town because i don't think he would be bussing. I said this all already. Maybe I'm confused... whose case are you referring here? | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
On March 31 2014 06:04 Tehpoofter wrote: This is also if slam was doing this as VT would be a horrible waste of a day. @tehpoofter: What do you think the chances are that Alakaslam is Survivor vs. Mafia vs. VT? Right now I'd guess, like, 70% survivor or traitor / 30% mafia / 0% vt. I guess there's also a chance he is some other 3rd party role. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
Are you referring to this post? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445571-doctor-who-mafia-2?page=11#215 I guess I could construe that as a case against hopeless, but he votes for thrawn right afterward. Or are you just talking about this comment as a case??? On March 30 2014 15:54 kitaman27 wrote: Hopeless with his "do i need to go through the motions of totes serious voting to get a response?" conveys a kind of "look at me doing someone" without actually coming to a conclusion other than that I'm useless | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
On March 31 2014 06:19 Hopeless1der wrote: cool, you guys can face rayn's ire when i flip town. On March 31 2014 02:40 raynpelikoneet wrote: Hopeless1der - probably scum I think we will be ok. @anyone any thoughts on Djodref? I have trouble reading people who townread me, but his early posts felt pretty town to me. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
raynpelikoneet voted on Hopeless1ider earlier in the game. In response to a question from thrawn, raynpelikoneet seems to suggest kitaman27's case on hopeless1ider sounds fine. I think there are only two posts from kitaman27 that even address hopeless. One barely mentions him (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445571-doctor-who-mafia-2?page=18#359) and I do not think it is a case. The other is just a series of questions (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445571-doctor-who-mafia-2?page=11#215). I'd like to ask rayn questions and go back and forth but I am out for a few hours, so in summary I currently think rayn justified his vote on hopeless1ider based on a non-existent case by kitaman27. (he also justified it based on foolishness' read but I can't use that for anything) I will come back to thread in about 3 hours and read the more recent developments, I haven't given the recent posts fair attention yet and can't until then. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
I'll give a little more below but to summarize thoughts right now: I don’t feel all that convinced by kitaman27’s case on rayn. But I really dislike rayn’s 100% scumread on kitaman27 following the case, and dislike that rayn seems to promote gumshoe’s scumminess and downgrade Alakaslam’s scumminess for no clear reason. Currently my vote preference is rayn (feels scum), slam (scum/3p), or gumshoe (lurker). I do not know if rayn is checked out of the thread for real so I will question him below. I'm voting him now, but I am may move back to Slam. I don't like his answers to my questions. I think gumshoe and alakaslam are “safer” lynches for today. But, if we are going for a 'safe' lynch Alakaslam seems safer, so he'd be my preference over gumshoe. Only potential read I got from gumshoe is that he is maybe hinting at a power role, but he could just as easily be a VT that's roleplaying. -- Regarding kitaman27’s case on raynpelikoneet: kita raises a few points I want to address: (1) rayn doesn’t follow through on kitaman: I believe rayn likely did not do the research or read your prior game because I think he could have used it to support a town or scum read on you. (2) rayn’s vote on hopeless seems bad : I pretty much agree with this. I don’t feel rayn gave an adequate reason for this. I may be tunneling a little because rayn’s comment on kitaman27’s ‘case’ on hope1ess still feels unexplained when it should be easy to explain. (3) kita sees rayn’s mass claim policy as towny: I feel rayn has probably played enough that he knows how to push an agenda, but I do not feel he pushed the idea in a meaningful way. rayn’s read on gumshoe On April 01 2014 00:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: Weak scum: gumshoe - hasn't said anything Kill with fire: kitaman27 Alakaslam On April 01 2014 03:06 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay i really just fuck off now. this is getting so fucking terrible. [red]kitaman gumshoe Vivax mafia in there. not that anyone will listen. town lost gg. It seems to me that rayn reads gumshoe as more scummy and Alakaslam as less scummy but I do not really get his reasons. -- ##Vote: raynpelikoneet @raynpelikoneet: To get me off this wagon (1) adequately explain what "case" kita raised on hopeless and (2) adequately explain how gumshoe seemed to become more scummy and alakaslam became less scummy. You might also have to (3) vote alakaslam or it won't matter anyway. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
For people in thread now, why pick gumshoe over slam? Maybe I'm biased because he picked me ~~~ but it seems to me that Alakaslam is not town, maybe scum, whereas gumshoe is just maybe scum. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
On April 01 2014 03:49 kitaman27 wrote: Would anyone consider traitor to fall under the category of changing alignment? I wouldn't really. Traitors generally are always mafia, its just that they can communicate if identified. It seems unlikely that mafia would have both a town recruiting role and a traitor role in the same game. I suppose a third party traitor that joins the mafia team is a possibility, but I've never seem something like that before. I do not think traitors are alignment changing, and given the Dr. Who lore as I understand it (cybermen turn other people into cybermen somehow) I feel pretty strongly that mechanic is in the game. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
On April 01 2014 04:29 Djodref wrote: I also prefer slam over gumshoe, but I'm ok to make concessions with austin, kush and ? so we can have enough people.to avoid a rayn/kita lynch @austinmcc & @kushm4sta can you explain why you would prefer to vote off gumshoe over slam? I do not actually know that is your preference but will take Djoref's word for it for now. To be frank and direct, I think non-town would prefer to keep a 3rd party role alive as a potential asset later in the game so I am suspicious of this preference. (obviously if slam is actually scum then there are other simple reasons you would prefer he live) | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
Would you kindly look at the comments at the bottom of my post here, http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445571-doctor-who-mafia-2?page=44#863. Maybe it's too late to get votes off you, but if you are town maybe your answer will help me read you properly in another game. @austinmcc I like most of your posts, but I do not really understand your vote on tehpoofter and it doesn't feel to me like you are pushing that lynch at all. I talked about conversions some earlier, if you want to pursue that topic I'm glad to during the teatime/night phase. I'm still willing to move to slam though I feel fine on rayn since he didn't answer me again. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
I still feel it is a bad idea but since I know it was coming from someone in town I'd like to hear if anyone has re-evaluated it or feels differently. @kitaman27 I would especially like to hear from you, not just because of you and rayn in the whole 1v1 thing (though that is important) but also because you mentioned it as consistent with rayn's play when you were making your case. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
I'll be around for about an hour if you want to talk, I think my filter is short and I think a fair number of my d1 posts refer to rayn so there may be something you can ask me to get better reads. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
Vivax I already commented on Vivax's post asking hope1ess if he was joking (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21088181). Vivax dislikes that Toad goes 100% on hope1ess on his first post. I'm not sure if Vivax dislikes the certainty or that it was reached so quickly, but it makes me feel he should have dropped a comment on rayn's certainty regarding kitaman27 later in the day. Did this get answered? If not I would like to see kush's response because I think kitaman27 deserves a deeper look. I don't feel Vivax takes a stand on rayn vs. kita and ends up with a safety vote on Alakaslam. I don't find the Slam vote terrible (as I said, I wouldn't mind voting Slam) but I don't like that he escaped weighing down one way or the other. If I were to infer from his posts, I felt he was more likely to put his vote on rayn than kita. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
On April 01 2014 11:29 thrawn2112 wrote: did rayn's flip have any effect on your reads or how you view D1 in general? Yes. I think I spent most of my attention d1 on rayn, though I did interact with some other players. My vote ended up on him largely because I felt he didn't or couldn't explain questions I had about his comments. I don't let other players dictate how I vote so I'm not set on rayn's 1:1 trade with kitaman. However, I am willing to sheep rayn enough that kitaman27 is a focus and leaning scum based on at least some of rayn's comments. Frankly, I don't know rayn's meta enough to say whether he always tries to portray "100% confidence" or if he is honest when he is unsure about his reads. Either way, I'm willing to pursue it. Other than that, I need to reread hope1ess next, the interactions I gave most attention to involved rayn/kita/hopeless so I think he is my second person to be attentive to. Had rayn flipped scum I would have felt a little better since hope1ess also voted on rayn. As to D1 in general, I think we should have decided earlier if we were going to go with a policy lynch but I didn't expect that gumshoe wouldn't post so it didn't seem like a realistic concern. Giving you a short post because you are in thread, I'll write more in a little bit. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
Ge seems to have as few posts as I do, but with less content. After rereading I feel he is scummy based on the following: - hope1ess seems to criticize rayn's focus on slam as anti-town, but also appears to do the same thing. He asks slam earlier if slam will flip town (encouraging the idea slam will die) and seems to only respond to posts which let him criticize scumhunting. I'm not sure why he votes slam when he does since he seems to see it as a foregone conclusion for quite a while. - hope1ess sort of weighs in on rayn vs. kita by voting rayn. He also defends one of rayn's arguments regarding kita (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445571-doctor-who-mafia-2?page=37#733) and I think that is a fair answer. This doesn't weigh toward him being scum in my eyes. The scumfeels come here: On March 31 2014 23:56 Hopeless1der wrote: In my currently preferred scenario, we lynch rayn. If he flips town, hope a vig can get you or slam and probably end up lynching the other one. If he flips scum, ##Unvote: Alakaslam ##Vote: raynpelikoneet What feels scummy to me is (1) The important part of the post isn't there. He votes rayn so if he is town, he should feel the second scenario ("If he flips scum,") is more likely to occur and more important, but that's the part that's missing. This feels off. (2) He has not articulated any preference between rayn and kita but moves off a vote he considers acceptable, even if rayn is town. Not super strong but his posts are pretty minimal. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
On April 01 2014 11:48 Tehpoofter wrote: I just looked at the vote count thing thats interesting. I am putting on my noob pants for this one are there roles that have vote changing or adding mechanics as both alignments? Or is it more indicative of one or the other? Also thrawn yeah lets put pressure on that Vivax scummy guy. I am not as sure on kita cause he didn't seem to listen to rayn so hes not in my town circle with me you and austin. Also Slam is going to be in the circle too even though hes 3rd party he can work with us for now. What do you think about JJD? He has a small filter its easy to read so check it out. I am gonna shower but I can read JJD after. I don't see vote changing as necessarily town or mafia. I think in the ## game I read earlier I think there were vote increasing and decreasing mechanics on each side. At the least, in Foundation Mafia both mafia and town could add an extra vote. So, I do not think it is strongly alignment indicative. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
Giving JJD a Nuke At the risk of incurring a terrible AlakaCurse… I talked earlier about the Alakaslam vs. gumshoe. I felt Alakaslam was a better safe lynch because (1) gumshoe was idle(town/scum/3p), Alakaslam was spammy(scum/3p) (2) if Slam is a survivor or 3p, mafia may want to keep him alive. Of the people who commented or voted, the preference was: Alakslam preference: Amiko, JarJarDrinks, Djodref, Vivax, kitaman27 (encouraged slam over gumshoe) Gumshoe preference: Austinmcc, kushm4sta, thrawn2112, Alakaslam (obvious), tehpoofter Did not comment or I missed it: Toadesstern, hope1ess (Hope1ess did vote slam earlier, but I don’t feel he commented on Alakaslam vs. gumshoe) I mention this both because it may be helpful for me to review later, but also because I feel if someone was going to give the nuke to a player to kill Slam, JJD is a consistent choice with the views expressed yesterday. Fire ze missiles? I don’t feel too strongly about whether you nuke slam or someone else today. However, my preference is absolutely that you use the nuke today because if you hold onto it you are at the very least a tempting conversion/kill target (if you are not scum/3p already). I have no objection to nuking slam. I do think it is possible to use this nuke as a stick to ensure Slam helps town, but I feel like that comes with a lot of liabilities. … however, if slam becomes an irradiated hulk monster, well, may god have mercy on our souls. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
On April 02 2014 07:51 Hopeless1der wrote: 2- The nuke that JJD is about to launch? I think Vivax is asking this: Your preference was to lynch rayn. If rayn flips town, vig and next lynch take care of slam & kita. Vivax's question is, why not lynch slam and have vig & next lynch kill rayn & kita? Or, why not lynch kita and have vig & next lynch kill rayn & slam? Also, in my earlier post I questioned what Vivax quotes there - you write "If he flips scum, " then nothing else. What were you going to write? | ||
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I could read rayn's games a bit but I'd like to be in thread a little longer before I disappear to reread something else, and it'd be nice to hear from some of the players who have been with him before since they may disagree on rayn's meta. | ||
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On April 02 2014 08:05 Hopeless1der wrote: I thought Vivax was asking why lynch kita instead of lynching slam today. You may be right and that could be Vivax's question. But, could you answer the question I thought asked? ( for ease: ) Your preference was to lynch rayn. If rayn flips town, vig and next lynch take care of slam & kita. Vivax's question is, why not lynch slam and have vig & next lynch kill rayn & kita? Or, why not lynch kita and have vig & next lynch kill rayn & slam? I think there is a straightforward answer anyway but eh maybe you'll surprise me | ||
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On April 02 2014 07:50 Amiko wrote: Of the people who commented or voted, the preference was: Alakslam preference: Amiko, JarJarDrinks, Djodref, Vivax, kitaman27 (encouraged slam over gumshoe) Gumshoe preference: Austinmcc, kushm4sta, thrawn2112, Alakaslam (obvious), tehpoofter Did not comment or I missed it: Toadesstern, hope1ess (Hope1ess did vote slam earlier, but I don’t feel he commented on Alakaslam vs. gumshoe) Also for completionist sake, gumshoe did not comment because he was not here. | ||
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On April 02 2014 08:08 Alakaslam wrote: Dude epiphany This is absolutely possible with my role I think Depends, would have to survive the blast... Dude I don't know whether I actually want to run that risk voluntarily Slam don't you feel the game might be more fun if there was a constant threat of a nuke? Also I'll mention that since no one died last night, it seems significantly less likely that Slam is a serial killer (I remember someone proposed that yesterday). | ||
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On April 02 2014 08:21 Djodref wrote: Also, to answer austin, I removed Amiko and Toad from my top town reads because they were on rayn lynch, and it's difficult for me to understand how you could decide to lynch rayn yesterday. 1) Toad wasn't on the rayn vote list. I do not think he said he +1'd the rayn lynch (maybe I missed that?) and there has only been speculation that he may have put his +1 on rayn. How do you know he put his vote on rayn? On April 01 2014 06:07 Crossfire99 wrote: Vote Count raynpelikoneet (6) - Alakaslam (3) - Hopeless1der (0) - kitaman27 (0) - gumshoe (3) - Tehpoofter (1) - austinmcc JarJarDrinks (0) - thrawn2112 (0) - Toadesstern (0) - Not Voting (1) - gumshoe raynpelikoneet is lynched! Let me know if I made a mistake or anything. 2) Do you also now have a scummier read of kushm4sta, hopeless1der, and kitaman27? | ||
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When kita was discussing how rayn didn't followup on checking kita, I felt it was highly likely that rayn did not do the research (as opposed to doing the research and then deciding not to use it because it made kita appear scummy). If rayn had seen that kita mirrored his play in a prior game, I feel rayn could have construed that to be either towny or scummy against kitaman, it's not necessarily town (I think kita even wrote that in his own post). So, I feel like that option is unlikely. I'm not sure that specific point is still relevant but it was one thing that I noted reading kita's read on rayn. | ||
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a) wait to use the nuke? b) nuke someone else? and why/who? | ||
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A few quick comments- On April 02 2014 08:34 Djodref wrote: 1) I remember that Toad thought rayn was scum. I'm not sure at which point he said this exactly though. The thing is he was not there or didn't do anything to prevent rayn's lynch. And I think maybe he could have done it. So yeah, I'm going to focus my attention on Toad this cycle. 2) That's right, I'm a little wary of kush and hopeless this cycle. kita looks really decent for me at the moment. I liked his argument that scum kita (or any scum I would say) wouldn't push a rayn lynch. It would be a really ballsy move with a possibility for backfire. Hopeless just posted a very reasonable post last page, but I cannot get rid of the feeling that his vote looked opportunistic. Kush was not there, and I don't remember what he has done this game yet, so maybe he's trying to fly under the radar. @Djodref: From your answer to #1, you are saying that you believe Toadesstern placed the extra vote on raynpelikoneet. However, kushm4sta has claimed the extra vote. (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445571-doctor-who-mafia-2?page=56#1103). I don't really get a scumread off of you missing that point, and honestly I'd still like you to pay attention to Toad, but if your concern is the extra vote you should be attentive to kushm4sta. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + | ||
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On April 02 2014 12:07 Tehpoofter wrote: I'm too lazy to reread the post but can you shoot your nuke at night? Or do you have to do it during the day cycle? cause this would be super ideal for this situation if we got into a 1 scum 1 town lynch if scum save shot shoot someone else thats scummy and other person stays and if the lynch was town obvious scum hit for the nuke. On April 02 2014 07:08 JarJarDrinks wrote: | ||
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Amiko
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To explain a little bit - the item description you have has the nuke as "by JJD". To me, this strongly implies that you created the nuke. But, I can't think of a good reason why you would name a nuke "by JJD" and then claim it's not made by you. I did spend a short time trying to see if JJD might refer to a character in Dr. Who (or a player in the game) but didn't see anything like that. I discussed the consistency because it was something I reviewed, even if it didn't end up convincing me of anything important. Let's say that d1 you had indicated a strong preference for killing gumshoe over slam. I would then find your claim that you have a nuke to kill slam as suspect. (it was consistent, though) | ||
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Nuke Timing On April 02 2014 11:51 austinmcc wrote: If it were a shot and not a nuke, you could hold it and only fire if you were sure he wasn't going to get modkilled and hadn't done anything of note. On April 02 2014 12:20 Tehpoofter wrote: If you can use it at night then I see no reason to shoot it before then unless something else occurs it seems like holding until night is the correct procedure. It seems to me that the nuke should be fired during the day. If you fire during the day, your target will not get to use night actions. So if you are targeting a scum player, the player won't get their night conversion. Scum player also lose the opportunity to change their night actions based on the nuke (there may be a yakuza-style role that sacrifices itself to convert, for instance... I don't think that's too likely since no one died n1, but just giving an example). Holding the nuke until night does give some advantages - you have more information. A flip, a votecount, and more posts. But, if you think you will use the nuke on a Slam, I don't see how that is beneficial. | ||
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I don't think scum would give you a nuke to kill Alakaslam. They may be able to joint-win with him, and even if not, Slam seems like a good candidate for either a lynch or to soak a vigi shot/nuke. It's possible but unlikely to me that scum has to give a nuke to a townie. However, I don't think scum would have to give town a nuke that is named for Slam. On April 02 2014 13:05 JarJarDrinks wrote: Though the reason I don't think that's likely is because it would make kita town which I really doubt. I have no idea what this comment means, please explain it. | ||
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On April 02 2014 13:16 JarJarDrinks wrote: If scum gave me a nuke then they'd have to assume there'd be a good chance I'd use it on Kita. So if scum gave me a nuke then kita isn't scum. @austinmcc and @kushm4sta since you are in thread I agree with austinmcc and I'm willing to filter dive a bit to see if I can find something. Would you both let me know whether you agree with JJD's statement above regarding nuke/kitaman27? | ||
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On March 31 2014 22:08 kushm4sta wrote: I think toads case on hopeless is unconvincing but it probably comes from town, unless toad stepped it up hard core since his last scum game. Gotta read Raines newest stuff still. I think there is evidence that kita has too much information. @kushm4sta: I think I asked you this yesterday but did not see a response in thread or filter. Sorry if I missed it. Will you explain what you mean in the bolded part of the quote? | ||
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On April 02 2014 05:06 kushm4sta wrote: i kind of dont want to give reads just in case ive been converted.. On April 02 2014 06:21 kushm4sta wrote: did not get converted @kushm4sta: Would you share some reads now? | ||
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I reread djodref, didn't get much new out of it but here's two comments- I think Djo should have seen Toad as scummier give that from Djodref's point of view, Toad's power was essentially placing the +1 of his vote on whoever he wanted, regardless of where his name appeared in the vote list. I feel that power is almost only something that would come from scum. I don't get a strong read off of Djo for that, however, because he did indicate he was going to focus on Toad today and he may not have been thinking about it that much since he missed kushm4sta claiming the extra vote was from him. Besides that, I only found one semi-inconsistency in Djodref's filter. It's probably irrelevant to the game but it made me a little happy: + Show Spoiler + On March 31 2014 04:51 Djodref wrote: What do you mean by cop-out ? Sorry but I'm not a native speaker. This is also why it's more difficult for me to understand your posts so maybe you come more trolly and spammy than you should to me but you do, and after the last game we played together I don't mind to policy lynch you. On April 01 2014 01:11 Djodref wrote: I'm gonna have to go to a dinner with friends soon, I think I'm going to be busy at deadline. I don't like a rayn lynch, I don't think kita is scum. I'm copping out and voting Slam. I don't see a better option right now. @rayn gumshoe is inactive, he is totally null, I hope someone shoots him if he keeps up playing like this. But I don't see how you can have him as scum. You could propose a policy lynch on him at best. He learned a new word! :D | ||
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I'm going to make an ice cream float in a little bit then go to bed! JJD I think kita said something that tried to explain his read on rayn earlier which made it sound like when he posted his 'case' on rayn it was more of a read. I forget, I think it was in response to my comment and I don't want to reread it right now (sorry). If it's still an issue I'll try to put up a quick post tomorrow morning if I can. | ||
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(whatever it looks like kushm4sta is saying what I'm saying so I'm out for now) | ||
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On April 03 2014 00:58 Hopeless1der wrote: i.e. no, claiming doesnt prove anything, everyone has fakeclaims, everyone is probably blue. I'm not back in thread yet (going to get lunch with some people then can play after) but I would like people should stop saying things like this because, among other reasons: 1- I think there are probably vts because conversion is scary if mafia can convert power roles. (it is possible/likely being converted removes your prior role powers given the earlier mod response but let's not harp on modtext); 2- I don't want to encourage blues to identify themselves in a conversion game; 3- Meta-wise, it seems like GreyMist games have all blue roles, but Crossfire had VTs in the ## game so it seems reasonable there would be some in this game. I'll be back this afternoon and want to try to read over JJD's comments on kita and any other questions or topics people @ me about. | ||
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Responding to this post and discussion before and after - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21106351 Ok, I was initially a bit confused by JJD’s point but I think I understand it now. JJD is saying the following (correct me if I’m wrong): JJD’s Argument (I think) First (*#1*), Kita posts here (link) his preference is hopeless vs. slam over rayn vs. slam. This post implies Kita sees hopeless as more scummy than rayn at the time of this post. For context, Rayn had indicated prior to (*#1*) that his scumreads were kitaman27 and tehpoofter (link). After Kita’s post above, (*#1*), Rayn discusses a few things and seems to feel more towny about tehpoofter (link. Rayn doesn’t seem to make many direct comments on kita. Then, Kita posts his expansive post on rayn (*#2*) (link). In this post he argues that rayn has not followed up on reads, indicating rayn is likely scum. From my understanding, JJD is saying that when Kita posted (*#1*), he should not have felt that rayn was less scummy than hopeless because nothing changed between (*#1*) and (*#2*)). In other words, kita’s earlier post should have seen rayn as scummier than hopeless. My thoughts on this argument I think JJD’s point is correct, but I feel like it justifies kitaman’s post as much as it questions it. In other words, I feel Kita’s attack on rayn is more justified premised when rayn is attacking him. If Rayn sees Kita as his top scumread, then rayn is more likely to filter dive to support his argument that kita is scum, so rayn’s failure to filterdive kita seems less likely to be lazy town. I haven’t felt great about JJD this game but I feel this was a good point to raise, we can talk about it more if you want JJD or let me know if I misconstrued or misunderstood. Sidenote – thrawn2112 claim I don’t think this was addressed, but when re-reading thrawn2112 I noticed this post, which I think can be read as hinting at the claim he makes later (double vote). + Show Spoiler + On March 31 2014 16:53 thrawn2112 wrote: btw guys next person i vote for is in for a surprise so don't be scummy -- Votes on Rayn @anyone in thread I don’t really understand why there seems to be agreement that there are no scum votes on raynpelikoneet, if you are willing to spend a little time on that I’d appreciate it. -- There’s some crazy stuff going down with gumshoe now so I’ll post this and read that. | ||
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@anyone I don't actually know the etiquette in this situation, am I allowed to question gumshoe right now or do we have to not talk to him until he is confirmed to be alive/dead? | ||
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If gumshoe does flip as a medic you can feel I am potentially confirmed town (not 100%). Assuming gumshoe dies from bullet wounds, kushm4sta is confirmed PR. If gumshoe flips medic, this suggests to me mafia only has 1 KP (since there were no deaths) so at least mafia may have to pick between kushm4sta and myself. | ||
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On April 03 2014 05:03 Vivax wrote: Fuck's sake. Kush, is it a 1-shot-ability? @kushm4sta: You may not want to reveal this since it helps mafia decide which of us to kill. | ||
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On April 03 2014 04:59 gumshoe wrote: Lets talk while we wait for the hammer : D have we considered that the ability to convert targets specifically belongs to 3p? Perhaps thats why slam has been reluctant to talk about his power. Its just I pretty much know scum has kp, having convert as well seems pretty op I know you are dead, but here's my thoughts- Slam posted a PM roleclaim earlier which did not include a conversion mechanic. It was basically a survivor that returns green to cop checks and cannot be converted. The lore of his character (Prisoner Zero) seemed like it could have a conversion mechanic (it sort of mind-connects with people), but not that directly. It is possible there is 3p with conversion, but I feel like there must be at least some faction with KP because otherwise the game would never end (and obviously there is/was a doctor as well). | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21109993 One thing that may be easy to address- On April 03 2014 04:46 Amiko wrote: Votes on Rayn @anyone in thread I don’t really understand why there seems to be agreement that there are no scum votes on raynpelikoneet, if you are willing to spend a little time on that I’d appreciate it. -- N1 Target Also, to be honest I am a little confused at the idea I would be a n1 kill target. Of the players in this game, I think I have the least experience. I don't think I came out with any super strong reads d1. Compared with other players who claimed blue or strongly hinted at it, I either didn't claim blue or, when I did, no one in the thread seemed to notice or comment on it (there was some discussion with JJD but that was D2). Further, there was some indication I get a night action from my interaction with gumshoe. So... I'm not too sure why I would be a d1 kill target. I mean, I don't see a particularly good regular reason or WIFOM reason to kill me n1 (I am honored though ~). I'll try to review my own filter when I get home and see if anything seems significant. | ||
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@kushm4sta: I think you are cleared green, but I would like answers to the following if you are willing: - You have a vote affecting power and a one-shot vig power? - If you had one-shot vig power, did you consider shooting Alakaslam / someone else yesterday? | ||
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@Djodref: I'll read and get back to you shortly. | ||
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cleared green -> (cleared town) | ||
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Toad’s post here (link) feels scummy in context. Basically, he had moved his vote from hopeless1der to raynpelikoneet, but his post suggests to me that he sees hopeless as scummier than rayn. To expand a little, he explains his scumread on hopeless1der in that post without any reservations. In contrast, his explanation of rayn has caveats and indicates that he wants more time to read rayn. Now, I have to grant that Toad did move his vote back to hopeless1der in his next post (saying he forgot to change it – http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21091556］link[/url]). But, it still leaves a question as to why he moved it from hopeless1der to rayn earlier. I am mixed on this post by Toad- On April 01 2014 06:34 Toadesstern wrote: I'm basicly saying, it doesn't look like thrawn cared about Rayn being lynched despite having him as 100% certain town When I re-read thrawn I felt like he was not 100% town on rayn (which Toad says a few times). To be fair, though, after rayn flips thrawn said that rayn was obvious town. So that part I was mixed about. I am also mixed because I disagree with Toad some - thrawn did seem to try to take steps to avoid the rayn lynch by encouraging people to get onto gumshoe. However, I think it might have been more effective if he tried to get people onto Slam (at least, I was more likely to move onto Slam over Gumshoe, but I guess it was fairly evenly split). In sum… I don't have a strong read on Toad. sry :c I will consider placing my vote on him to encourage him to give more feedback but won't do so until I get home at the earliest. | ||
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On April 03 2014 06:40 Vivax wrote: Oh snap, didn't think of that, why do you call him cleared green when you caught up that notion though? It does make me feel less sure about his claim. It makes me feel less sure but I also feel kind of dumb asking that question when the answer is obviously yes. It feels odd that he could have both powers though, right? I tend to believe he is town despite that oddness because his actions with gumshoe feel like independent confirmation. Gumshoe claims a name, kushm4sta says no that's my name and shoots gumshoe. I er... I really don't know why gumshoe did that. It seems to me that he could just fake his powers and use the same character name. Regardless, kush's response feels confirming because he calls gumshoe out on the name. Thus, I feel kushm4sta does have that character's name. It is possible kush was converted n1. But, if that's the case you have to believe converted characters either retain their powers (which the more I think about it, the more it seems crazy to consider), or converted characters become 1-shot vigs (which is probably even more crazy) Since the character seems like an obvious town name to me, I think kush is town. Plus, it makes total sense to me as town to shoot someone fakeclaiming as you | ||
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--------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------- @Djodref - Regarding your post http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445571-doctor-who-mafia-2?page=75#1498 on Toad: There's basically two things. Toad pushing Hopeless1der: I feel alright with seeing Toad as suspicious for not pushing a lynch on Hopeless1der, but I also felt like hopeless leaned scummy when I reread him the other day. So, I at least agree with one of Toad's reads (but to a lesser extent) which makes me less eager to lynch him. Regarding him not playing: This is a little compelling. I feel better about lynching a likely 3p than a lurker on d1, but I feel it becomes riskier as the game progresses. Currently I would prefer lynching hopeless to lynching toad but they both seem like good options to me right now. I want to see kita a little more (it looks like he is posting now) but I don't think kita would be my lynch today. --------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------- @austinmcc: I will be around a little bit tonight but need to start reading another game, so I will be glad to chat with you! But expect some long pauses between posts. Also- On April 03 2014 11:28 austinmcc wrote: I think he's misrepresenting some things, but arguing consistently, and if he was mafia trying to get a kita mislynch, he SHOULD be throwing in that rayn wanted kita dead and kita was a big factor in lynching rayn. Not always, and that bit assumes that kita would be town and this wouldn't be rando-bus in a partial/wholly conversion game. But I think it's a legit point. The manner in which he's pushing kita does not align with how, in my head, a mafia player would be pushing Kita. This point was pretty compelling to me. --------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------- On April 03 2014 12:08 JarJarDrinks wrote: Pretty sure toad is modconfirmed town. There'd be nothing to discuss after the game if he was just scum lying. For the record I don't think this is correct. At least, I have a video mafia game where a mafia player said he realized someone was town due to out of game information and couldn't say why, people basically the mafia player after that. It led to some discussion after the game. So, to me Toad can be mafia just as easily. Either way, I think we should talk about it after the game. | ||
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Who would be a tiger? Who would be a flamingo, or fake flamingo? Who would be a monkey, and please specify whether a monkey species that flings feces or no? (This is actually a real set of questions) [/QUOTE] I'll answer you as best I can, but I have to be a little silly with these questions. Tiger + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Ha9gth1.png) The noble tiger. It is fearless and strong, a ruthless predator. I think kitaman27 is a tiger, though perhaps he would not be confined to a zoo. Kita appears to confidently defend himself while pushing reads, and I feel he contributed to our first blood. Flamingo + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/QGuqP5L.jpg) (It's supposed to be a flamingo dragon) The pink flamingo. Something about it seems awkward and difficult to understand. But undeniably it's bright colors draws attention. Alakaslam is the flamingo. He stands out due to his unusual claim d1 and his odd playstyle. It's difficult to determine his motives. I guess we haven't focused him too much d1, but I still think the comparison is pretty good. Monkey + Show Spoiler + I can't think of a particularly appropriate answer and monkey pictures seem overused... I guess I could argue that Slam is a poop-flinger because he spammed somewhat, but I don't feel like it really detracted from the conversation all that much. | ||
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I don't know if these questions will be meaningful but I'll ask you to see where it goes- Who would be a: a) Hippo? b) Panda? (also if you want to be a flamingo as bird god I can accept that) | ||
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I didn't mean much by the comment except to express he is kinda scary. But! I can offer a post-hoc thematically appropriate explanation, which I do think is fair: I feel like I would expect Kita to be more on the defensive d2 given rayn's certain scum read followed by a town flip. In other words, kita should be feeling high pressure. But I don't think the pressure on kita has been all that strong (with some exceptions... JJD put some pressure earlier on him regarding the nuke, kita's had to explain some reads, you are following up with some now... but it still doesn't feel like he is in much danger to me right now). In other words, maybe kita should be constrained by the thread sentiment, but it doesn't seem like he is. | ||
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On April 03 2014 14:46 austinmcc wrote: Again, completely asleep, but random thought. If we have someone that can make more than nukes, and that person is town, I think you should not make KP. Anything that's anti-conversion or checky is good. One other option, if we've got someone that can make stuff, is some kind of alarm system. Something you or another person could place on folks at night, and it triggers if that player ever changes factions. Might take some discussion with hosts to balance, but something like that let's us identify people that get converted and WHEN it happens, which is particularly useful for seeing if they have any strategic read changes after swapping factions (would have to wait like 24-36 hours before revealing that someone had triggered an alarm, and then parse through what they'd posted earlier in the day). I don't know how item creation works but if you can do something like that, I think I agree it would be better than making KP. I also had an interesting thought which I am emailing to myself regarding new item announcements on day 3. If you are town, do me a favor and remind me to post that idea during n2 since I don't wanna discuss it until then. I'll probably remember but I'm tired so maybe not. | ||
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I don't feel persuaded by the first part of kita's case (settling on slam). I know when I reread some of his d1 comments I felt like they were things I thought would be good to pursue. The nuke comment, I don't know. It seemed consistent to me (he still wants to kill slam). I do agree his vote stealer comment doesn't make sense to me, though Right now my vote preference is hopeless1der. I will read vivax's defense more when I get back. If I still think hopeless is the best lynch I will try to convince when I get back @hopeless1der If you are in thread please comment on kita's case so I have more of you to read ##vote: hopeless1der | ||
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##vote: hopeless1der | ||
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@hope I was talking about kita's case on vivax, You voted vivax but I want comments- do you agree with everything kita said? comments on other people's comments on kita's case? etc Also @all hope's comment here feels really bad to me. The first half of my post (which he omitted, so he must have read) is talking about kita's case on Vivax, it should be obvious that's the case I am referring to | ||
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Some quick fire comments while I read more closely: @Hopeless1der: Could you comment on this post by Vivax, http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445571-doctor-who-mafia-2?page=86#1707? I like it quite a bit Re: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445571-doctor-who-mafia-2?page=87#1733 Is there a reason to hold the role name? Or to not reveal the ID of B? Also what do you mean “A targetted B” “I do not actually know who A is or who A targetted.” @anyone How much did hopeless focus on Vivax today (as a modified watcher)? I haven't filter dived yet, I can in a few mins, if you have opinions on this let me know. If he is a modified town watcher I feel he should be attentive to Vivax today as someone he suspects | ||
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However, I admit I feel pretty lost right now. I don't have a scumread on kita, but maybe I should since he's made two cases and I didn't feel super on board with either. (Though it contributed to my scumfeels on rayn d1). I... don't understand why Toad nameclaimed, but a quick read of his character feels like it maybe fits his claimed untargetable/saved/novote powers... I don't know for sure. I don't think I want to vote hopeless1der @djo: I read toad's claim as being vivax's mom, not dad. | ||
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I don't think there's time to do it properly tonight, but let's revisit mass claiming tomorrow. | ||
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From wiki skimming apparently Mickey directs a missile to kill some aliens at one point. So, I wonder if maybe that role is tied to the nukes? also you probably know the answer already but I saw it in thread before On April 04 2014 05:16 JarJarDrinks wrote: Is it implying that vivax and rose targetted the same person? yes | ||
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If hopeless’ claim can be believed, I would expect he would think the following: 1) Rose is town, but he doesn’t know who rose is So not too helpful 2) He knows Vivax visited someone. Hopeless does quote vivax a lot. I don’t know though, I feel like he could have dropped some hints that he had information on vivax. Like, here: On April 03 2014 10:20 Hopeless1der wrote: I'm biased...I havent been reading him critically because he's been a pain in my ass in recent memory. If you want me to OMGUS him, I can do that but I dont think it'd be productive. It does make this comment a little better, I think On April 04 2014 04:25 Hopeless1der wrote: Alternatively Vivax wants to know if he should convert Kush? I think I believe hopeless’ claim more than toads. Maybe it’s because we only have part of toad’s, I’m not sure. | ||
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##vote: toadesstern Currently I am between toad and kita, voting toad at least right now. Kita's posted 2 cases I don't like too much, but I don't have a scumfeel on him, I like his explanations as he moves through reads and thread. Toad feels harder to follow at least. | ||
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hopeless claims he watches the target of mystery player (role named town). mystery player (role named town) and vivax target the same person when I write it like this I feel more suspicious of vivax :s If he had a night visit he would presumedly have some information... I feel like he could be a converter. | ||
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On April 04 2014 06:03 Xatalos wrote:  | ||
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I'm a little demoralized. I agree with Austin, I think we should get reads out pre-conversions. @austinmcc- I know it's lame to move away from thread now, but my plan was to stay in thread until lynch then give what time I could to the Catastrophe game. But, you mentioned in the last few pages you wanted to talk more flippantly and less constructed with me, and I can try to do that tonight (~5hrs). | ||
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On April 04 2014 05:09 Hopeless1der wrote: "You are Mickey Smith, ex-boyfriend of Rose Tyler. You hate it when she leaves on her escapades with the Doctor and have even taken to following her for what little time you see her. You are a watcher, but you target whoever Rose Tyler targets. (You never see Rose visit someone and if Rose isn't in game, it is a random selection of who you watch). You win with the Town." Rose targetted "someone". Vivax also targetted "someone". This is all i know @hopeless1der From your role description, you are not notified that Rose visited someone. So, how could you know that Rose targeted someone? | ||
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It sounds to me like if Rose targets someone, hopeless1der only should get informed about the people who visited the target, but doesn't see Rose. This makes sense because this limitation (not seeing Rose) means he doesn't know if there is a Rose in the game or if he was given a random player. However, he claims that Rose targeted someone. | ||
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Amiko
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If hopeless provides an explanation I believe then I would probably push hopeless down on my scumlist. I would also need to re-evaluate JJD because I didn’t do a thorough filter dive of JJD for this post. Summary (Most scum to most town) scum/scummy (Hopeless1der) (JarJarDrinks) weaker scumread Kitaman27 To reread (Not sure, but I generally feel djo / vivax is more towny than tehpoofter/thrawn) Tehpoofter / Thrawn2112 Djodref / Vivax Kushm4sta towny Austinmcc (JarJar/Hopeless go here if I believe hopeless isn’t scum) -- Scummy (1) Hopeless1der - Claimed Mickey Smith (watcher that must target whoever JJD targets) - Claimed JarJarDrinks/Rose and Vivax/? both visited Austinmcc on n1 At this moment I feel I caught hopeless as scum (see my post here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445571-doctor-who-mafia-2?page=95#1898) because he seems to have visit information that he shouldn’t have according to the terms of his role. (2) JarJarDrinks - Claimed Rose Tyler (has night visit, power unknown, target is watched by hopeless) I’m not sure I would feel JJD is scum except for the interaction with hopeless1der. Basically, JJD is confirming hopeless by saying that he visited Austin. It is possible JJD is innocent but still confirms hopeless. For instance, maybe hopeless is fakeclaiming, and his actual role lets him see who a town visits and learn the town’s role. He targets JJD, learns that JJD is Rose and that JJD visited Austin, then makes the fake claim. This is possible, but it feels pretty remote to me. So, I think JJD is either town, or he is Weaker Scumreads (3) kitaman27 I am not satisfied with this explanation but I think it is compelling enough kita should make my scumlist. Kita has made two cases and I haven’t felt that good about either one. I read his filter and nothing really jumped out to me as scum, despite trying quite a bit to read through d1. I really felt like there should be something that jumped out given rayn’s certainty, but there wasn’t anything specific. I just didn’t like his cases. I did vote rayn d1, but it was mostly because of some inconsistencies in rayn’s posts (that kita didn’t mention) and rayn’s reaction to kita’s case (which felt really off to me). I didn’t like kita’s case d2 on Vivax. I don’t know, I feel bad criticizing kita when he’s actually put effort into making cases. I feel like if kita dies I’m not confident we’ll have someone who will sort of force us to focus on a specific person. But, the cases just don’t feel right to me. I don’t like that he disappeared during some of the substantive talking at the end of d2, but I will be mostly forgiving because I get pulled into real life things too. At the same time, I think the way kita’s case on rayn developed works against the idea that kita built cases around a player. To explain this better: I think town would read players, then make a case on the scummiest player. Mafia would look for someone to mislynch or who is a threat, and make a case around that player. Here, it feels like kita’s method doesn’t let him pick who he can build the case around, so it doesn’t seem like a mafia case. But, then again, kita even admits that he encourages rayn to make reads on him and review his prior cases, so in some ways Kita is picking the target for the case. I could write some more but honestly I’m just back and forth on Kita. It feels like there’s reasonable explanations for a lot of what he’s done, I just don’t like his cases and that’s kind of where it leaves me. Reread Tehpoofter / Thrawn2112 / Djodref / Vivax: I need to reread these players and place them, right now they feel neutral. I see djo and vivax as slightly more towny than tehpoofter and thrawn. But they all could use a re-read. - Vivax claimed to visit austinmcc n1 Kushm4sta: - Claimed extra vote d1 - Used vig shot d2 I’m a little scared of his role, but his shot on gumshoe felt townie to me… but I don’t really know what gumshoe was doing. Lol. towny (JarJar/Hopeless probably go here if I believe hopeless isn’t scum) Austinmcc: I won’t pretend to fully understand him, but I feel he is town. His views just seem to align with mine pretty often – I noticed this again in the response to the push on Vivax. -- Reads / Conversions I think we should post reads, but actually working through this post made me feel that it is not a tool that will effectively nullify conversion. We can’t really hold each other to our read list because other players in the game may be getting converted... even if everyone townreads someone, we can’t very well remove that person as a lynch candidate because it just means there’s a higher risk they’ll be converted. So I’m all for posting reads, but I would note there’s some problems there. Followup I’m got pulled away part way through this post and I’m going to sleep now. I’ll try to update on the people I need to reread when possible. (Also seriously no one posted this whole time? D: ) [b]@kitaman27 : Are you willing to elaborate on your read of djodref? Specifically, this: [B]On April 02 2014 09:17 kitaman27 wrote: Nevermind on that one. I've actually removed djo from my ever shrinking possible mafia lynch. Originally, I was thinking that he took the position he did knowing more information than he should about rayn and my alignments, but I don't think that applies as well as I thought. There was something else that I found townie from him that I won't go into. | ||
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Amiko
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On April 04 2014 13:52 Hopeless1der wrote: JJD claimed Rose...JJD confirmed that his target matched Vivax's target (austinmcc). What is the discrepancy here Amiko? I'm headed to bed, I'll check back in the morning. The discrepancy is that according to your role, you should not see Rose. In other words, the report back to you should be "Vivax targeted ??" not "JJD targeted ??. Vivax targeted ??" Because according to your roleclaim, "You never see Rose visit someone" In other words, Hopeless1der, you should not know whether Rose visited someone. From your role description, you should be unsure whether you are getting someone that Rose visited, or if you were assigned a random player to watch. This makes me think: - Either you and JJD are working together and talking outside the thread to coordinate - JJD is not actually Rose, because Rose would not appear in your check. @hopeless1der Please get back to me when you can since this feels pretty important to me. | ||
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Also, just so we clarify as much as possible: - When you received your watching information, were you given player names (like "Hopeless1der") or character names (like "Mickey Smith")? - Did your report say a) Vivax & JJD visited ??? b) Vivax & JJD visited austin c) Vivax & ??? visited ??? or what? | ||
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I'm going to bed soon but if you are still here let me know if what I am saying about hopeless makes sense or if I'm just sleep deprived or something | ||
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Basically, I through some of the players (kita, vivax, austin). When I get back I read hopeless - then I see hopeless' information as inconsistent with his role claim. JJD verifies hopeless' claim. So it feels like either JJD, hopeless, or both are lying. But, I do agree with JJD that based on the d2 interactions it is hard for me to think both of them are lying. JJD do you get what rose red flags to me about hopeless' claim / information inconsistency? Maybe I misunderstood hopeless but I reread it a few times and I don't think I did. | ||
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Amiko
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Vivax needs a reread because of his involvement so if Itake hopeless as lying I should reconsider him | ||
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(I'm not sure irrespective is a word, what I mean is even if I dont consider hopeless as lying kita felt scum) | ||
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Hopeless' claimed role is not useless at all from my point of view. If you feel differently let me know and I'll give some examples. I still don't like that he presented his checks initially as knowing that Rose visited his target when I feel like that's not a fair assumption to make. But, I agree... I don't think it can make him scum unless it's part of a more elaborate plan where you two confirm each other. It's possible but it feels too remote. I've raised massclaiming repeatedly for two purposes. One, I think it's a better idea as the game goes on. I'll claim tonight, probably just before night ends. Second, I thought mentioning massclaims would be an innocuous way to probe to see whether players were changing their minds. Converted players probably have to keep their reads somewhat consistent, but I figured they may be more likely to be open to massclaims. As an aside, Kita was consistent. But, I still think he could be a cyberman/scum. | ||
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On April 05 2014 03:59 austinmcc wrote: I generally disfavor massclaims, sometimes just for "fun" reasons, sometimes because I overvalue blue roles. From other themed games, and being scum in themed games, I think one of the benefits of massclaiming is being able to DIRECT actions. If we all want to claim, we should consider claiming BEFORE resolution, so as to try and get people to prove themselves/not do scummy stuff by directing their actions. However, because of the lack of notifications, that's not as useful as in some other games. Normally it's nice to know if someone actually got roleblocked, or JKed, or whatever, because the target can confirm the action. Here we lack a lot of confirmation tools and so I don't think that's relevant and guess it's not important to time things so that we can direct actions. Agreed. Better to claim tonight. Plus, austin, it'll be "fun" if we claim a role, then get cyber-converted and maybe lose our role or have to use it in a way we dislike because of the claim. I'll look at your kush questions | ||
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On April 05 2014 03:45 Crossfire99 wrote: Night actions are due in . After that, no more actions will be accepted. Make sure to send actions to all hosts. Actually, why don't we post our roles right after this countdown? Then, we have one hour between our claims and night ending, and we can talk about roles while everyone is alive. Scum can't change their actions because their night actions are locked in already. | ||
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On April 05 2014 04:04 Amiko wrote: Actually, why don't we post our roles right after this countdown? Then, we have one hour between our claims and night ending, and we can talk about roles while everyone is alive. Scum can't change their actions because their night actions are locked in already. AND if someone is converted tonight, they don't even know it yet. So maybe they will kill their brethren :D | ||
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D1 kushm4sta claims the extra vote. The competing wagons (Alakaslam, Gumshoe) have both flipped as town/3p. So, if he only has a limited use of his extra vote, I'm not sure why he would use it d1. He probably doesn’t care too much which of these three wagons is lynched since all are town. If he's scum, why is his preference rayn? Some possibilities - Fear of rayn as a strong / active player - To protect another scum? But, rayn was pushing for a lynch on kitaman27, so it means scum would group and use an extra vote when they don't seem to need to do so. Going to try to look into austin's questions on thrawn now | ||
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On April 05 2014 03:45 Crossfire99 wrote: Night actions are due in . After that, no more actions will be accepted. Make sure to send actions to all hosts. Sorry will post on thrawn after deadline. Please post at the countdown! | ||
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"You are Porridge, a “little bloke” in the words of Angie Maitland, who you met at one of the greatest amusement parks in the galaxy, Hedgewick’s World of Wonders. You were part of con involving Webley who convinced others that he repurposed a nonfunctioning Cyberman to play chess when in reality it was just you who played chess from a little compartment. You win with the Town." (VT) | ||
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Part of the other reason I felt better about massclaiming is that hopeless has claimed watcher. If there are watcher/tracker roles, they can alert us if someone claiming VT has taken a night action. | ||
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On March 31 2014 16:53 thrawn2112 wrote: btw guys next person i vote for is in for a surprise so don't be scummy What was this referring to? At the time I took it as meaning you have some kind of power or vote mechanic. | ||
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Why you did not suspect austin when there was no kill and you had jailed him? (I still think Austin is prety town though) | ||
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On April 05 2014 05:44 austinmcc wrote: Okay good. Not 100%, as I could see scum having either the Cyber Planner or the Doctor as a main role, possibly with Godfather protection, but that's nice. I am a roleblocker and RBed Toad N1, RBed Kita N2. If kita shows town and does what I think he might do, he's likely cleared. If kita doesn't do what I think he might do, it may be because of my RB and Vivax would have faked his claim (or kita don't do what i think he do). Can you put your character blurb in? | ||
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On April 05 2014 06:03 Xatalos wrote: | ||
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On April 05 2014 06:09 Xatalos wrote: What's with coloring my name, Amiko? First red, now blue... >.> I am just being silly. Sorry if it bothered you --------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Update about my role (received today) You have decided to that too much death has occurred and you must do more to stop the Cybermen, so you are coming out of hiding. As Emperor Ludens Nimrod Kendrick Cord Longstaff XLI, you have access to one nuke that will obliterate your target. Type ##Nuke Player (make sure the player’s name is spelled exactly like their full TL user name) in the thread to fire your nuke at them. The nuke must be fired 12 hours before the end of the phase and the nuke will land at the end of that phase. It will ignore medic or vet protection on the target. PM all the hosts to ensure that the nuke was noticed. You still win with the Town. (sic) I was tempted to hold onto this information for a bit, but I can't think of a good reason to do so. Moreover, I will be out for part of Saturday so I'd like to resolve this sooner if it's possible. | ||
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On April 05 2014 06:17 austinmcc wrote: Why not make a full claim an hour ago, but do so now? If you mean me, I only just received that message. | ||
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Vivax has said he jailed Austin, which would mean that Austin did not visit Kita. | ||
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Just to confirm, jailer is 1) target is roleblocked 2) target is protected from night actions correct? | ||
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his answer is important. | ||
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also On March 09 2014 14:50 Crossfire99 wrote: Claiming: Claiming your role is allowed, but you cannot claim when you got your role pm, who sent it to you, etc. Fake roleclaims are provided before the game and on request to all players no matter your alignment. | ||
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Game would be easier if you said it made people untargetable, because On April 05 2014 05:46 austinmcc wrote: JJD Claims Cop. Claims check on me N1. Town. Vivax Claims JK. Claims JK on me N1. JK on me N2. If Vivax's role makes the jailed player untargetable, JJD could not have obtained a check on Austin. | ||
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Even if we don't know the resolution order, if you were roleblocked by Vivax then we can assume the same result happened both nights (either your target was blocked both nights or wasn't blocked either night). Kita if you won't claim your role information I'm unhappy, but at least weigh in on this somewhat if you are able to. | ||
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(I read through the summary of the Silver Nightmare episode and I think it would be really funny if it was like, a cyberman that targets the doctor for conversion has to play chess against him on some other site.) | ||
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Kush post your role PM, but omit the timestamp and name of the sender | ||
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Hopeless1der claims that he watches whoever Rose (JarJarDrinks) targets. On April 05 2014 05:36 JarJarDrinks wrote: I'm cop. I received a towncheck. I asked if my check would happen before or after a conversion and was told that was something I wouldn't know so it's possible that vivax converted Austin. On April 05 2014 05:42 JarJarDrinks wrote: I checked kita JarJarDrinks is has flipped blue so I have no reason to doubt this. Therefore, if hopeless1der is honest, n1 hopeless1der watched kitaman27. Now, hopeless1der has claimed that he saw Vivax visit the target. On April 04 2014 22:03 Hopeless1der wrote: Therefore, if hopeless1der is honest, n1 he saw Vivax visit kitaman27. However. On April 05 2014 05:25 Vivax wrote: You won't die, austin, nor would you have yesterday cause I jailed you and did again. Vivax has claimed that he visited Austin n1 and n2. Therefore, I think there must be scum between Vivax and Hopeless1der. (umm does this make sense? lol) | ||
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Amiko
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21124179 I want your take on this pls | ||
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Amiko
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21124179 pls | ||
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I suck this game apparently sorry. | ||
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Where does JJD say he targeted austin n1? | ||
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On April 05 2014 05:36 JarJarDrinks wrote: I'm cop. I received a towncheck. I asked if my check would happen before or after a conversion and was told that was something I wouldn't know so it's possible that vivax converted Austin. On April 05 2014 05:38 JarJarDrinks wrote: should I reveal my check for tonight? On April 05 2014 05:42 JarJarDrinks wrote: I checked kita I was reading filter and saw the third and didn't recognize the first as indicating d1 read. my b. | ||
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But, I don’t want to distract conversation from tehpoofter. I don’t like his last few responses. | ||
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Scum used 2 KP used tonight as far as we can tell. If Scum had 2 KP n1, but no kills resulted, where might the KP have gone? One KP might have been used on me (because gumshoe saved me). One KP could have been used on Austin (because Vivax jailed him), but in that case Hopeless should have seen the kill. One KP could have been used on Toad, who was ethereal n1. It is also possible that scum players were roleblocked and unable to use KP. Austin was roleblocked n1 according to Vivax. Austin is a roleblocker, we don’t know whether Austin’s roleblock would go through if Austin was targeted with a roleblock. Regardless, N1 Austin says he targeted toad. So, if Austin does have KP, it was either blocked or ineffective (because it targeted toad). If a roleblocked Austin’s roleblocked actions still occur, he blocked kita n2. So kita may be able to clarify how this works if he knows whether his n2 action occurred. - I’m gonna talk about tehpoofter next. | ||
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To wrap up the last post- I don't see Toad or myself as a particularly likely kill n1. But, if Hopeless' claim is real, then Mafia didn't target austin. So, I will take a look at my d1 and Toad's (though I don't remember seeing much there for him besides the scumread on hopeless). | ||
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Day 1 I was mixed about tehpoofter. Some things he said I didn’t like: - He suggested it was possible Slam (who claimed 3rd party) was town, which didn’t feel possible to me. (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21090949］link[/url]) Granted, he didn’t say it was likely (5%) but I felt like, why even bring it up if the percentage is that low. - Early d1 he seemed to townread kita. He also had a scumread on rayn, or at least disagreed with him on some substantial points. Discussing Kita: + Show Spoiler + There’s a few more I didn’t copy On March 31 2014 03:44 Tehpoofter wrote: Rayn I have seen you own as town if you're town do that this game but we really need to hit today because of what kita posted... Kita I like you as town. On March 31 2014 06:35 Tehpoofter wrote: I think kita's theory is probably pretty damn accurate if alignment conversions are possible mafia having one would lead to them starting with that many I believe. So thrawn you reading everyone as town? I think you said you believed slam's claim do you think hes likely to be the only 3rd party and if not anyone giving you just an anti-town maybe not mafia vybe? Discussing Rayn: + Show Spoiler + There’s more than just the ones I put here… On March 31 2014 06:27 Tehpoofter wrote: See thats a bad attitude Imo Rayn is only one person and he might be scum this game. Hes not the town hero he was in titanic this is a new game boys and you shouldn't just sheep rayn. The only way rayn gets what he wants is if you act like its a forgone conclusion. On March 31 2014 06:37 Tehpoofter wrote: Glad you agree with me! We should vote him off cause hes not doing a good job of hunting for scum like I feel he does as town and might be pushing an easy lynch in slam irrelevant of his role and not bothering to scum hunt. On March 31 2014 07:10 Tehpoofter wrote: Gonna snag dinner since the thread is dead..... Super glad rayn wants to instant lynch the survivor claim and do nothing else. Look at all the conversation it generates while scum just says thanks and hangs back. On March 31 2014 18:24 Tehpoofter wrote: I would love to hear your bigger case rayn. This is what I mean that is different from last game... your heart is either not as into this game or you're a different alignment than last time. The rayn from the game I played was more than happy to bring up a whole case on someone even if it was a massive wall of texts and then scream at the town for not realizing they're scum. This isn't what you're doing this game... its different and its the only meta I know for you. The Way I play mafia is assessing how people play different alignments and roles and compare them between games along with the information in the thread to attempt to make a read. Thus far you are different than last game where you were basically the whole town. IF I have a read you do X as town and then you do Y instead should I draw a different conclusion? Day 2, tehpoofter lists kita as his second highest scumread. + Show Spoiler + On April 01 2014 18:08 Tehpoofter wrote: Town: Thrawn - He seems to be actually taken a back by the fact that he is only finding town, scum needs mislynches so if hes scum hes playing against his win con. Austin - I think his case and the way he fought it was townie. He also had the same line of thinking as me that we shouldn't just lynch SLAM and should try to find real scum sadly he didn't find any scum but neither did I For scum: I want to look at vivax, kita, kush and JJD the most. I don't think they are all four scum but I think there is definitely a scum in there. Vivax for the reason that he tried to bury rayn and then voted slam... like he buries a town and gets off the wagon good lay low scum play imo. Kita: He puhsed on rayn and didn't really seem to listen to his responses during his push if you will note the difference between him and me pushing our cases on rayn I was not really sure and uncertain about if he was scum and austin pointed it out on my case I feel like being sure is more scummy than townie cause I'm trying to figure it out and kita in this case would just need a ML also I pointed out earlier my theory on the vote count thing possibly being from him. Kush: He is here because my town read thrawn wants to know whats up with you. JJD: He says that kita scum slipped calling me and him town maybe he did and kita is scum but it counts against JJD here because I'm in no way confirmed so how does he know I'm town? I mean maybe he read me as town but I didn't see that in his read... I'm going to read his filter after this and see if I missed him calling me town before that but I don't recall it. I ranked my scum and town in order of strongest to weakest. I don’t feel he really asked kita questions to follow up on those reads. But, it’s also unusual because toward the end of the day he seems to suggest that kita’s actions that day didn’t seem that scummy. Then the next morning he is back on with kita as scum. [spoiler] On April 03 2014 20:14 Tehpoofter wrote: Anyways I'm out for the night. I will get up early to be around pre deadline. I'm okay with any of those on my scum list for lynches, preference to vivax. Also @ austin the post you quoted with 4 I still am hardest on vivax, kush is clear I think cause his role with the extra vote and day shot would be insane op for Mafia, Kita I will get up and read on d2 actions and see if he makes the pile but just the brief thread read through nothign stood out. JJD has a nuke and I like what he was doing pressuring hopeless with the fake claim thing it seemed like a really brazen thing to do and not something you'd really want to do as mafia and I think hopeless acted poorly on it. I know I haven't been around but I feel confident on this vivax lynch read my case, maybe kush will come out with a big case like he said in one of his posts but I don't like his posting patterns. night On April 04 2014 04:41 Tehpoofter wrote: I'm about to head to work but wanted to post from my iPad that I agree with Austin's point and toad shouldn't get a bullet but a check or other things. I also am concerned if a Kita hopeless team. Kita has two days now put cases on someone I started to pressure at the start of the day towards the end and vivax giving me the same feeling as rayn yesterday. Off to work I might be switching to Kita/hopeless. On April 04 2014 05:41 Tehpoofter wrote: bah this role claim stuff would happen while I'm commuting and starting work.... @DJO why do you think djo's role is maf sided? ##unvote ##vote kitaman I'm not convinced any of the roles have to be blue even toads but if town lynches a third straight blue we're pretty much SoL. To give tehpoofter credit, I feel like his reaction to this is in line with what he is saying about the players in the game. + Show Spoiler + On April 04 2014 07:29 Tehpoofter wrote: How is kita hella town to you? Also why is JJD the possible scum out of the claimed blue roles? More recent posts- On April 05 2014 12:54 Tehpoofter wrote: I have something to say more on Amiko cause he randomly got his role changed (sounds cool that it happened but why? Like what brought on the change just a random townie day 2 gets a nuke out of no where? Was town thought to be in a bad spot at this point?) I didn’t like this post because when I wiki’d my character name I learned that he interacted with a bomb to blowing up cybermen. I guess in retrospect you haven’t really paid much attention to the lore (which is maybe okay, I don’t know if it necessarily helps) so I won’t hold this against you all that much. On April 05 2014 12:56 Tehpoofter wrote: Kita is mafia. JJD had a role that could do something to others kita as mafia would know that its not a medic/shrink/inventor since JJD had the nuke yesterday. Austin lived through the night so unlikely to be vigi my next thought would be cop. JJD was going saying adamantly against kita if I recall correctly. So that was my first thought that Kita didn't want a cop claim with a red on him thus 1- JJD only claimed cop after the night action deadlines were in. So, scum had already decided who to kill before the cop claim came out. 2- Scum used 2 KP last night. If tehpoofter thinks scum killed JJD for being suspicious of kita, why would they also killed Djodref, who seemed to really trust kita (look through his filter, I think it’s basically all pro-kita)? Besides the above @tehpoofter: If you think kita is scum, who do you think is his most likely partner? | ||
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On April 05 2014 13:49 Vivax wrote: Amiko, maybe scum has the ability to withhold KP 1 night and have 1 extra the next one. Or they convert on odd nights and 2 kp on even, Toad's role had similar mechanics. This is possible, I feel like the second one makes a little more sense to me (because I think mafia would want to use KP n1). | ||
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I am a little puzzled by your last post. You think mafia have a jailkeeper. You think Vivax is jailkeeper. You think Vivax has said the scummiest thing the whole game. But, you don't think mafia is Vivax. | ||
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On April 06 2014 01:28 Amiko wrote: @kitaman27 I think we all feel it is likely there is a Dr. Who in the game. But, we don't know if you are friendly or not. I am a little puzzled by your last post. You think mafia have a jailkeeper. You think Vivax is jailkeeper. You think Vivax has said the scummiest thing the whole game. But, you don't think mafia is Vivax. And, you also think the mafia is between vivax/thrawn/poofter + Show Spoiler + In a setup where there is a detective, watcher, medic, jailkeeper, inventor, shrink and my role, it would be pretty crazy to think that they wouldn't have a roleblocker on their team. That either implicates austin, vivax, or the vanillas. austin was town checked on night one, which leaves vivax and the vanillas. And, you pushed for a vivax d2 I feel like your post should be renewed conviction Vivax is scum. Why isn't it? | ||
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Where did you mention that earlier? Does a mafia jailkeeper roleblock + kill? | ||
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I could hold the nuke to entice scum to convert me ~ I won't though ;_; | ||
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> If the scumcheck isn't instant, I do not feel it makes sense to nuke kushm4sta because it would deny town the result of his check on kita. > If the scumcheck isn't instant, I do not feel it makes sense to nuke kita because kush will provide a check on him which is some information, even if it may be a lie. > I feel pretty good about austin as town, his play feels townie, his comments feel townie, and Vivax has claimed to have protected/roleblocked him both nights making it less likely he delivered KP or was converted. - I feel somewhat good about Vivax. If I jailed austin n1 and there was no kill, I think I also would have jailed austin n2. There's no guarantee he is actually a jailer, but his actions do feel consistent at least. He's currently low on my nuke list. | ||
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-- My d1 I think I discussed kita, rayn, and hopeless the most. N1 I also discussed hopeless some more and did a reread on him here (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445571-doctor-who-mafia-2?page=54#1061). So, if someone wanted to kill/convert me n1, it could have been based on my doubt of kita or my scumfeels on hopeless1der. I think tehpoofter's play has changed somewhat, but I could attribute that partially to the other game or just general change in the pace of the game. I think I would prefer tehpoofter or hopeless to thrawn, but I am not sold yet. | ||
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Kush is your preference that I target thrawn or tehpoofter? Could you try to explain to me why you would pick thrawn over tehpoofter, or try to explain why you feel like hopeless is less likely to be a target? @All Please weigh in on nuke choices. I'd like top two players. I'll ensure I get the nuke launch in, and now that I look at the countdown again I'm sure I'll be back with some time to talk before nuking. | ||
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I want to respond to this first since it's easier- Nuking by Night I am a little confused that you think I might want to hold the nuke Austin… I think most everyone reads you as the most likely town this game, both from your play and thanks to having a few people claim to protect you on various nights. So if you think I should hold it, I will certainly consider it. My concern is this - we don’t know exactly how conversions happen. We’ve speculated (maybe it happens odd nights?) but I think the only sure thing is that it happens at night (based on rayn’s role PM). If I nuke during the day, the nuke may kill someone who could have converted. Maybe not, I don’t know if converted people can convert or what. Also, I’d kind of like to hold other players to the same standard as me: if the other VTs get nukes tomorrow, I think I want to be able to require that they shoot during the day. If I hold the nuke, we may get information. Let’s say we lynch kush (I skimmed the cases from Austin and kita, I will reread it and comment at length after this post). Regardless of whether he flips green or red, the information we get isn’t necessarily going to point to anyone. He might be green and kita is godfather; he might be scum and kita is town; he might be scum and kita is scum. We do get a little information - if he is scum, and his role PM indicates he was converted, we can better evaluate his interactions with kita D1 (because he would have been town at the time). If we lynch kita, it’s possible the information is very helpful. If kita’s role PM reveals he is scum and is not a godfather, kush is confirmed scum. I suppose firing the nuke also confirms that I received it, but I don't think there's really any doubt of that. If you think I should hold onto it let me know. | ||
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@kitaman27: I think austin indicated that he attempted to roleblock you n2. Per vivax's jailing of austin, austin was also a roleblock target. We don't know how it works when roleblockers target roleblockers. But, it is possible that you austin roleblocked you. If that's the case, it is also possible you did not get an action n2 and still can use the protect power. I don't know if hosts would tell you if you still have the power, you can check with them if you feel like it. Back to case. | ||
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@Austinmcc: I liked your case and have a few other things to add that I thought contributed to your case when I reread kush. You focus primarily on kush’s early game, but I think there’s some recent comments that look bad, too. In this post on d3, kush comments on kita’s d2 case on Vivax. For context, kush voted on vivax d2. On April 05 2014 18:50 kushm4sta wrote: this is his only scumhunting post after d1. long but scummy. it's not good that all his effort is concentrated in one place. also not good that he wants to lynch vivax for reasons that boil down to pretty much "i dont really like his choice of nuke". even though I thought vivax gave an excellent reason to lynch alakaslam. Here, kush’s comments are weird for a couple of reasons. For one, the tone here seems to imply that kush doesn’t feel vivax is a good lynch… but kush voted for vivax n2. He also indicated multiple times through the game he felt vivax was a good lynch (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445571-doctor-who-mafia-2?page=78#1541 for one example) Second, “it's not good that all his effort is concentrated in one place.” doesn’t make sense to me in context –what is kita focusing all of his effort into? It seems sensible that if kita is posting a case on vivax, it should focus on vivax. This could be explained by kush trying to distance himself from kita as a scumpartner. His read on Vivax also changes with very little prompting. After the linked post above (where Vivax is obviously scum), kush votes vivax (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21114553). Then, kush moves vivax from “obvious scum” to “probably town” On April 04 2014 07:18 kushm4sta wrote: im reading his filter from today and it's like so engaged and shit. Dont remember him playing so enthusiastically as scum. I think i just overestimated what his town game looks like something. On April 04 2014 07:19 kushm4sta wrote: austinmcc - hella town kitaman27 - hella town Hopeless1der - probably town thrawn2112 - possible scum JarJarDrinks -possible scum Vivax - probably town Djodref - possible scum Amiko - possible scum Tehpoofter - possible scum The grounding feels very weak to me. Moreover, it feels kind of the opposite of what you’d expect. Like, let’s say I play a game with someone and say “He’s scum because he isn’t being silly!” then the person starts acting silly. If I really believed what I said earlier, I think my response should be “He’s just trying to be silly to pass it off” not “Oh, he’s being silly now, he must be town.” Regarding the “Too much information” On March 31 2014 22:08 kushm4sta wrote: I think there is evidence that kita has too much information. On April 02 2014 13:40 kushm4sta wrote: im kind of busy with shit now so I'm not going to filter dive at this second, which is what I really need to do. about kita having too much information.. since then i pretty much 180ed on that. It was how he said this game only has 1 or 2 scum, when i was approaching the game thinking there were 3 or 4. But in actuality, if kita were scum, he probably wouldn't have said that at all because he would be extra careful not to reveal he has too much information. Austin makes the point, which I think is pretty good, that the second post doesn’t make sense. Kush is saying, kita can’t be scum because he said something scummy. I agree with Austin but would actually take it a step further. Kush’s first post there is D1. The second post is D2. His 180 on kita could be a result of a conversion n1 (either kush converting kita, or kita converting kush). More to say in a few minutes | ||
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So earlier I posted this On April 06 2014 02:12 Amiko wrote: Thoughts on Nuke Targets > If the scumcheck isn't instant, I do not feel it makes sense to nuke kushm4sta because it would deny town the result of his check on kita. > If the scumcheck isn't instant, I do not feel it makes sense to nuke kita because kush will provide a check on him which is some information, even if it may be a lie. > I feel pretty good about austin as town, his play feels townie, his comments feel townie, and Vivax has claimed to have protected/roleblocked him both nights making it less likely he delivered KP or was converted. - I feel somewhat good about Vivax. If I jailed austin n1 and there was no kill, I think I also would have jailed austin n2. There's no guarantee he is actually a jailer, but his actions do feel consistent at least. He's currently low on my nuke list. When I posted this, kush had indicated his check may not be instant. Part of the reason I put the comments on kita and kush first was because I wanted to draw more attention to them. My thought was, scum!kushm4sta would have incentive to not reveal his check because I have indicated I want to use my nuke today. However, I indicated that I wouldn’t want to nuke kita/kush if the check was outstanding. In other words, if kush is scum, he had a strong incentive to claim that scumchecker didn’t work right away, or only worked at night. Then, it would be likely I would nuke into someone else, ensuring scum survive and potentially winning the game if they can convert. However, kush did state that he got a towncheck on kita. So, I feel a little less certain that they are a scumteam. | ||
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What do you think of the possibility that scum has a driver? You mention it briefly as a possibility with regard to verifiable night actions/ I have followup question(s) after that. | ||
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On April 07 2014 02:02 kitaman27 wrote: It could definitely be possible. With so many power roles out there, I would think they would need at least some way to deal with them. As far as I can think, we haven't had any wacky night actions results though. All the claims seem to line up with actually happened so far. My initial line of thought was this: It seems weird to me that kush received the scumdetector over another player. So maybe Djo was driven to kush. If that's the case, it implies that scum knows Djo is the inventor. Based on that, I would think one explanation is that kita is converted n1, tells kush (scum busdriver) to drive Djo to kush so he gets the invention. It could also be explained if Kita has a busdriving power. From my understanding, Dr. Who is taking the kids to the However, I reviewed Djo's filter; he seemed to mistrust kush initially but it seems he gave him a lot of town cred for using his 1shot, so eh. Going back to your case kita | ||
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I was saying maybe kita is a busdriver because Dr. Who takes the kids to the amusement park, but that's just whoknows lore speculation. | ||
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Who is your doctor and what does he do? I tend to believe Kita’s comment regarding tracking djo n1. I noticed the “something else” in his post earlier regarding DJO and figured it might be a softclaim. I am a little suspicious of Kita’s claim to have protected Austin n2. I do think protecting DJO was the safer play, but I’d also note that I feel this post: On April 05 2014 05:09 kitaman27 wrote: *Shines sonic screwdriver at austin in an attempt to blind him* is more a roleblock claim more than a protect claim… it’s alignment indicative to me, though, and it might mean “something else” so I’ll leave it for the moment. (NOTE: This thought led me into the busdriver line of thought I posted in thread a little bit ago, I am redacting it from this post) Angie and Rose -- A Rose is a Rose I think I do not agree with kita’s suggestion that Angie makes sense as a scum role for the purposes he states. If Scum-Angie-Hopeless watches Vivax-Rose’s target, he doesn’t actually learn who Rose targeted, only other people targeting that player, so he still can’t be sure who has been alignment checked. Vivax – Inconsistent Views I still don’t feel persuaded by this case kita. From my understanding, the crux of this point is the concept that D1 vivax liked kita and his case on rayn, but then D2 vivax says kita is terrible. My first problem is that I feel vivax raised some suspicion of kita d1. First, he seems to see kita as scummy. + Show Spoiler + Calls a post from kita scummy here: On March 31 2014 07:45 Vivax wrote: The thing about Slam is that we don't know what kind of 3p there is in the game, being a closed setup he should be lynched at some point anyway, but not necessarily today, where we should rather lynch mafia. I don't like Rayn going for the "easy" lynch so quickly and calling it a day, same how I didn't like Toad going 100 % sure on hopeless in one of his initial post. This post from kita I found scummy: + Show Spoiler + On March 30 2014 15:54 kitaman27 wrote: lol you amuse me. But you have it backwards. I'm simply trying to gather the pieces for myself. The puzzle is mine to solve. As for your "web of disruption" post, it has a catchy name, but I'll respond once you come to an actual conclusion. thrawn is off my naughty list for the moment. People of interest: Tehpoofter seems to be asking questions that I don't find all that interesting. His initial vote of slam seems a bit forced. Amiko asking me or hope for the clarification doesn't seem scummy to me. We were probably just around. His lack of opinion and direction does appear scummy however. g Hopeless with his "do i need to go through the motions of totes serious voting to get a response?" conveys a kind of "look at me doing someone" without actually coming to a conclusion other than that I'm useless slam...generally I try to ignore him and the last time I did so I believe he was mafia. Day one survivor claims are usually someone I would lynch, even if I thought they might be a survivor. My biggest worry is that he might be a trolly town who is willing to get lynched and doesn't care, but he wasn't willing to role claim when asked and shows signs of over frustration that doesn't appear genuine. I'll probably leave my vote on him, though we need to avoid the scenario where nobody is under pressure because the lynch is already decided. kush is someone who usually gets on my nerves early and hasn't done so yet, which is a concern. I seem to remember him playing mafia and acting completely reasonable, but I'll have to look back to familiarize myself with some of his more recent games. In my opinion, thrawn and hope both overreacted to the random vote, yet kush doesn't draw the same conclusion by only expressing suspicion of thrawn. If slam is a survivor, then kush being the first one to defend him may make sense as mafia if he knows his alignment. This way of talking of "people of interest" summarizing some stuff to show where you stand kinda looks like posting for the sake of posting. Interesting is he only talks (as of suspects) about people that didn't react to his previous behaviour or asked him questions about his intentions. Affirming he still feels scummy on kita On April 01 2014 02:43 Vivax wrote: I am working things off one by one. Nowhere did I say my suspicion of kita went "poof", so don't assume so just cause I am currently not asking him questions. If you could simply answer instead of spamming desperation cryouts cause of a question then it would be appreciated thanks. Then, he moves toward a null read of kita, but still indicates some concerns/doubts on kita. + Show Spoiler + On April 01 2014 03:46 Vivax wrote: Nullish atm, didn't like how you started with your trick, then it seemed like you reacted to the pressure by giving a summary of the situation which felt like a stretch and looked like a post designed to look good not to find scum. That would be my main beef with your play. The way you replied to rayn made me feel better about you cause you pointed out his disruptive attitude. On April 01 2014 05:52 Vivax wrote: thrawn and kita vote slam and postpone any possible scum lynches we can't be sure of at this stage. It's good play to buy time lynching a wildcard I also think kita is misapplying Vivax’s statement that he is “being this bad as town” Look at the quote in context: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445571-doctor-who-mafia-2?page=82#1635 Vivax isn’t saying that kita is being bad as town because of his push on rayn. Vivax is saying kita is being bad as town because kita is pushing onto Vivax. Look at Vivax’s next post, too, where there’s this exchange + Show Spoiler + Kita: So to be clear, you thought my case on rayn was valid yesterday, but today you can't imagine me being this bad as town, even though you agreed with me? … Vivax: Yea precisely, especially cause of the push on me, I saw you hunting me when I was scum and it wasn't like this, gut wise. I know you are a good scumhunter and I feel like I'm not up against a scumhunter here, I'm simply up against a guy who decided for some reason he wants to lynch me but doesn't otherwise seem interested in what I have to say (like kush and tehpoofter though). … So, what I’m saying is, I don’t feel like Vivax is calling kita scummy because of kita’s d1 being bad. I think Vivax is calling kita scummy because he feels the case on Vivax is bad and not presented right. So, I don’t think kita’s case is particularly strong on this point because I don't see this as an inconsistency. More in a little bit! | ||
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On April 07 2014 02:30 kitaman27 wrote: If I'm a busdriver, do you not believe my explanation of tracking djo? @kitaman27 No, I think you probably tracked DJO n1. Otherwise, you wouldn't know to drive Djo to obtain the item. | ||
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I don’t have much to say except I basically agree with kita’s comments here. Vivax seems to be ignoring or misrepresenting kita’s push on hopeless. I looked a little for context and kita’s portrayal seemed fair. Scum Post of the Century / Godfather Speculation I just don’t see this as such a scummy post kita. I mean, I see it like this- Austin raises concerns about kushm4sta because kush doesn’t seem to consider kita may be godfather. Kita raises concerns about vivax because vivax considers that kita may be godfather. Both of these arguments could be true, but I feel they could reflect either alignment. Why do you think it so super scummy for vivax? | ||
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##Vote: Kushm4sta | ||
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I can't see how town posts that. I have some ideas regarding scumpartners but I'd like to see whether kush is the original cybermaster or whether he was a convert. From his post I think he is claiming original. This is important because it can help explain why reads may have changed from night to night. | ||
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On April 07 2014 06:29 Tehpoofter wrote: Nice! The only is problem is this says nothing baout conversion in his role. So they did start with at least 2. Time to check out day 1 filter stuff for kush. I'm guessing the "Further information redacted" discusses conversion. Not sure though. | ||
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I want to at least go back through, though, since we now know kush is scum from d1 because On March 31 2014 08:37 Crossfire99 wrote: I'm back. Thanks to Xatalos for his great cohosting and picking up the slack while I was gone. Remind me of questions I didn't answer if I missed one. When someone changes alignment, they will know they changed alignment. When people die, they will flip their current role and alignment. They will also flip any previous role(s) and alignment(s) that they had, but you won't know when they changed role(s) and alignment(s). This hopefully will make the case on kita look stronger/weaker because we know it's possible kush converted kita, but not that kita converted kush. | ||
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I want to reread you before I go through kush so if I see things I want to ask you about I'll try to post it. | ||
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On April 07 2014 05:20 austinmcc wrote: Here's a neat open question, but would like to hear from poofter/thrawn/hopeless before others: If kush is mafia, do you belive he used the scumometer and received a result that kita is town? If not, what do you disbelieve? @Tehpoofter @Hopeless1der Since you voted earlier maybe you are around, would you answer this question? I would sort of like to answer but I don't want to answer before you. | ||
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If hopeless' claims is true: - Hopeless watches whoever Rose targets. - With Rose out of the game, Hopeless will watch a randomly selected person. - Hopeless does not know who he is watching. | ||
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- Roleblocked players do not make night visits, as far as we know. | ||
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- He does not see the DT's name in the list of people who he watched | ||
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Kita's suggestion is that it tells scum who has been DT checked. However, scum can only figure this out if they visited the checked person (and see their own name on the watch list). Hopeless argued that his role was useless. When I was a VT, I figured hey, at least he has some power. Now I'm really not too sure what his role can do. It might be effective if rose was converted (and still was "Rose" for the purpose of directing hopeless' watch). | ||
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On April 07 2014 07:45 Vivax wrote: Well he sees anyone who visits a guy together with rose, that's a guaranteed blue snipe every time it happens and when JJD pushes a guy he visited previously they can deduce he's cop. What imo is a strong indicator of kita being mafia is that scum shot Djo knowing that me and hopeless were both blue (if hope isn't scum), they would never take such a risk of not shooting a claimed blue without already KNOWING Djo was inventor, and inventor is clearly a much better role than a claimed JK or such a watcher. So this is sort of why I was saying kita claiming to have tracked Djo seems like a concern. If kita was converted, it makes sense that he'd tell scum who the inventor is and kill him, potentially driving him to kush as well. | ||
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On April 07 2014 07:48 Vivax wrote: The role isn't fake, the name can be. I mean that type of watcher could be a scum role although it is kinda weak. I'm kinda moving towards a kita/poofter scumteam as final solution. The argumet with Djo getting shot over other claimed blues is in my opinion very strong. I revisited D1 and feel less strongly about this read now. I had forgotten, but djo basically claimed blue in his first post and the post was pointed out by a few people as well. I think scum could conclude he was likely blue, even if they were not sure he was inventor. On March 31 2014 16:16 raynpelikoneet wrote: He just outright claims blue in his first real post... On March 31 2014 16:18 thrawn2112 wrote: yeah i thought about that. it's either that or if he's scum then every scum has a role | ||
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Also thrawn I meant to ask you about this before but I don't think I did On March 31 2014 16:53 thrawn2112 wrote: btw guys next person i vote for is in for a surprise so don't be scummy did this mean anything in particular? | ||
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Vivax Tonight & More Conversion Speculation I'm not positive you will die tonight Vivax. If the odd night conversion/even night kill theory (that I think you suggested) is accurate, we may not see any KP tonight (besides that of my armed nuclear warhead) and have to try to figure out conversions. My only hesitation with nuking among the claimed VTs is that I think it's possible they will also "power up" into blue roles. Pretend for a moment that scum can convert every night. To account for an ever-expanding amount of scum, town has to have more than 1 KP/day (via lynch). We know kush was scum, so his KP couldn't help town. KP could be created by Djo as inventor, but it is only a semi-KP role. I have become a KP role, but it's just a one-shot. Therefore, even with the high number of blue roles, I think that conversion must be not be something scum can do every night. (If they can, then I think we auto-lose unless a town role gets KP tomorrow). Anyway, that doesn't lead anywhere in particular, but I do think it's reasonable to imagine other VTs might get weaponry like an anti-cyber gun or nuke or whatever. Hopeless Retraction @Vivax: I want to win and all, but the game is not invalid based on hopeless claiming host error. When he said something before we didn't know if it was true, and when changed what he said we don't know if that was true. Imo, the game will only be invalid if the hosts confirm he is telling the truth or not. I don't think the argument that he is relying on host error is going to sway me (or that it should sway me). ...unless austin tells me it should. #birdgod I'll take another look at your posts because parts were confusing, but I think I understand your argument and don't agree with it Nuking I want to make this decision but I'd like to hear from austin cause I think everyone reads him as most town. | ||
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Can you think of situations where your role benefits town? I think there are some. Can you think of situations where your role benefits mafia? I think there are some. | ||
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On April 07 2014 11:41 Hopeless1der wrote: My role, as claimed, is not useful to mafia. :| | ||
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Just understand that your phrasing there implies that your role is not what you claimed. | ||
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Here's how I see it. First, let's show how your role benefits scum. Pretend N1 JJD/Rose/Cop checks me. Gumshoe/Iforget/Doctor protects me. Your PM is something like "Gumshoe visited your target" From this, you can conclude that Gumshoe has a night-visiting role. You know he is not on your scumteam, so you have identified a blue power role. You might also review Gumshoe's comments to get some idea of how he acted or who he visited. For instance, maybe you look at his D1 filter where he talks about picking me as a companion and conclude that he was breadcrumbing that he would protect me. From this, you can make a second conclusion: Rose visited me N1. | ||
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Pretend D1 kush visits me with the intent of killing me. Rose also visits me. Your PM is something like "Kushm4sta visited your target" Later in the game, people claim their roles and checks. Rose says n1 check was Amiko. You can conclude that Kushm4sta visited me. You also have a means of confirming who Rose is based on other claimed night actions. By looking at who showed up when, you can essentially confirm the identity of Rose. You also can confirm the way roleblocks work with each other. For instance, if you are town you know that Vivax was able to roleblock Austin (who is a roleblocker). So, you can determine that roleblocks targeting roleblockers have precedence and are effective. There's probably other things but those at least come to mind. | ||
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On April 07 2014 12:29 Hopeless1der wrote: Because...nuking tehpoofter twice is funny? I'm gonna be honest and say I did consider this. | ||
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Low priority Amiko - It's me. Austin - I'm pretty sure I would nuke austin before I nuke myself, but that is a tough call. Vivax - I've felt towny about him most of the game. I dislike some of his comments, but they don't read as scum to me. I haven't gone too deep into the vivax/kush relationship, but reading the quotes that austin and kita went through discussing their relationship suggests to me that Vivax and Kush are not currently scum partners. So, he's low on my nuke list given the kush flip. ------------------------- duck and cover priority? tehpoofter: Idle, but I expect he will post tonight cause he was just active in Catastrophe. Want to see how he talks. Kitaman27: His involvement with kush was a core part of austin's case and pretty compelling. The idea that kita was converted after tracking Djo feels right but I don't want to hang my hat on it yet. I watched that Dr. Who episode. Kita do you look like this? + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/AbdNVBL.png) hopeless1der: Looking into interactions between him and kush now, have a post in the works. I'm not done but currently I feel like he's a potential convert based on some changes in the way kush interacts with him, but it's not super strong. Thrawn2112: Not really sure. I feel like I've read this filter a few times and stuff doesn't stick out. | ||
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I am going to try to review kush’s and hopeless interactions now, in case anyone else wants to go through this as well I’ll make this so it’s easier to read. I skipped a few posts that seemed like they could apply to multiple people and not just hopeless/kush. FYI I don't include every single post, I omitted some that I thought were vague and might refer to more than one person, or if they didn't feel important to me, etc. Kush -> Hopeless Summary: Initial comments by kush is that he has no read on hopeless. D1 he finds a case against hopeless (from Toad/Foolishness) to be unconvincing. He questions kita on calling hopeless scum. Later, Hopeless becomes kush’s top suspicion. Later, says Hopeless is lynchbait, implying Hopeless is town but just looks scummy. Later, he adds Hopeless to the potential scumteam. Thoughts Kush’s reads on hopeless shift from unsure, then to scum, then to town. I can’t say at this point whether he is the most likely conversion, but I do think kush had some posts that defended hopeless that seem fake (for instance, calling hopeless lynchbait is a meta-read). Kush’s shifting view on hopeless to town might reflect a conversion. However, it could just reflect scum making up reads and being inconsistent. These posts might have been more helpful to make a case against kush and less to make a case against hopeless. + Show Spoiler + “kita, I don't have any relevant opinions on hopeless atm.” -> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445571-doctor-who-mafia-2?page=15#291 “I think toads case on hopeless is unconvincing but it probably comes from town, unless toad stepped it up hard core since his last scum game.” http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445571-doctor-who-mafia-2?page=36#713 On April 01 2014 21:43 kushm4sta wrote: Questions for Kita why do you think this? Why is the boldified relevant? Have you ever played with town rayn before? I'm sure you have. In that game, was he not super sure about his reads d1? Why do you write more about how hopeless is scum, yet you push the rayn lynch? In your last post about rayn, which is not quoted, half of it is saying why you think he might be town. So basically, what made rayn a better lynch than hopeless yesterday? He lists hopeless as his top suspicion (for context, prior post by Austin: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445571-doctor-who-mafia-2?page=56#1119) On April 02 2014 03:33 kushm4sta wrote: Hopeless1der thrawn2112 JarJarDrinks Vivax Djodref Amiko gumshoe This was discussed earlier regarding kush/kita interactions. Here, kush is indirectly supporting a case on hopeless by defending kita’s thoughts. On April 02 2014 23:06 kushm4sta wrote: jjd, you are misunderstanding this post I think. Basically the important part is at the moment. Then a combination of two things happened. Rayn did some shit kita found scummy AND kita reconsidered the scumminess in rayn's play. To me, Kita's thought process is VERY transparent. He wrote at least two long ass posts dealing with his reads and the thought process behind them. His play would be extremely hard to pull off as scum I think. Furthermore, think of Kita as a person. I don't know him that well, but from what I've seen, I seriously doubt he would be the kind of flashy scum player to try to get rayn mislynched D1. I see kita as being a less confrontational scum player. Yes that meta is based on complete assumption. On April 02 2014 23:13 kushm4sta wrote: um vivax you know that hopeless is lynchbait right? usually lynchbait players act townie when they are scum and scummy when they are town. A lot of the things Hopeless is saying to me look tooscummytobescum. Like he is egging people on to vote him. On April 02 2014 23:19 kushm4sta wrote: It's like you are after hopeless for not realizing that 3p lynch is bad, when it's hardly a black and white issue. On April 03 2014 10:49 kushm4sta wrote: vivax why are you interested in kitaman's interest in hopeless' read on you? On April 04 2014 07:19 kushm4sta wrote: austinmcc - hella town kitaman27 - hella town Hopeless1der - probably town thrawn2112 - possible scum JarJarDrinks -possible scum Vivax - probably town Djodref - possible scum Amiko - possible scum Tehpoofter - possible scum On April 06 2014 03:12 kushm4sta wrote: sorry.amiko +thrawn + tehpoofter recruited Hopeless -> Kush Summary Hopeless’ statements on kush are actually pretty straightforward and consistent. TOWN TOWN TOWN TOWN TOWN Early on, Hopeless thinks kush is making sense and likes his posts. He calls kush confirmed town for the vigi shot (though he calls it semi-confirmed later in the day). He deflects off kush and attacked Vivax when he attacked kush. Hopeless’ first indication that he thinks kush may be scum is when he says he agrees with Austin’s case (D3) more than kita’s; based on process of elimination, he feels scum must be among poof thrawn kush. (it is weird that he omits kita here, might be something to revisit) Thoughts Suspicious but mostly consistent. I don't think kush ever felt super towny to me, but I definitely felt he was more towny given the way that he shot gumshoe. I wish he had put more comments on Austin's case because it feels strange that he went from seeing kush as nearly confirmed town to the more likely candidate. That said, it seems a little weird that he would bus, too. When he says he thinks kush is more likely, there was still only one vote on kush so I don't think there was any certainty kush would be the lynch that day. + Show Spoiler + On April 03 2014 01:17 Hopeless1der wrote: it just feels so strange to see kush this well put together. At any rate, I dont think any scum were on rayn right now. I dont like JJD's accusations against kitaman. "Kita knows I'm town" when kita essentially said he'd push the low tier players and gave examples of who those players would be. "Kita retconned his case on rayn". I fundamentally disagree with this statement because Kita's case relied on the fact that he tried to get rayn to look into his meta and rayn refused to do so. It was an ongoing process that rayn never pursued him and that is what kita found scummy about rayn. So I'd want to lynch JJD for tunneling kita while being completely sure that he's right every step of the way. He never wavers, never reconsiders. I'd also lynch gumshoe for actively refusing to play this game. This should be self explanatory. On April 03 2014 05:18 Hopeless1der wrote: I cant fathom wtf gumshoe was thinking. Whatever, kush confirmed town imo, amiko is pretty goddamn likely town. i'd like to lynch JJD or Toad. Toad because he keeps saying stuff like "i havent read that yet" but he's all up in thrawns grill for his read on rayn. On April 03 2014 06:42 Hopeless1der wrote: Ignore kush for the moment. Your thoughts on Toad? On April 03 2014 08:17 Hopeless1der wrote: 2. is pretty goddamn scummy if you ask me. On April 03 2014 10:06 Hopeless1der wrote: yeah i laffed, then just smh for a while. At least it semi confirms kush On April 03 2014 13:30 Hopeless1der wrote: Re: Massclaim rayn flipped town and wanted us to mass claim, so he thought it was a good idea. It worked out in handslaps PYP, though that was semi-open. btw that was shortly after Day2 started, not the lynch. And for the record I'm still FOR a mass claim if we can agree to it. Re: Shrink Claim In my defense, everyone else just kind of brushed it off and went along about their business the same as me. No one panicked and yelled OMG Y U LYNCH DOCTOR?! and I wanted rayn lynched...why would I draw attention to that fact? In hindsight yes this may make me look scummier but I had a scumread and felt that pointing out that the claim could be fake would cause people to scrutinize it and possibly swap over to gumshoe or slam, contrary to my preference. Re: response to kita -> kush 1-I think you mean Vivax 2-I found Vivax to be asking a lot of questions and refusing to put up his own discussion. Since the game opened I feel like he's been casually painting me scum, but someone (maybe you or thrawn) said that the fact that he's doing stuff instead of not doing stuff probably points to him being town, so I kind of disregarded him. However i think his questions are really open-ended and basically kush hits things pretty square with this conversation: It feels like Vivax is just quoting stuff and asking different people "and how does that make you feel?" like he's some glorified therapist. On April 04 2014 04:25 Hopeless1der wrote: Alternatively Vivax wants to know if he should convert Kush? On April 04 2014 05:25 Hopeless1der wrote: Amiko is pretty goddamn town. Every other post (with no provocation) he is constantly updating or explaining or expanding on stuff and has commented on almost every main point in the game afaik. Excellent play and something to be wary of conversions. JJD very likely town based on role speculation. Kush very likely town based on reaction to gumshoe. No hesitation, immediate shot. I feel scum would have tried to go to their QT all "wtf he claimed my role do I kill him?" before pulling the trigger. Thrawn good activity Vivax I dunno Toad is a useless pile of garbage this game. Kita seems like he's working towards a town-oriented goal. BIRDGOD goes #squak, very town. no idea about djo or poof. On April 06 2014 22:06 Hopeless1der wrote: Ughh I'm so hungover. Dont like vivax for mafia. Agree with Austins meta read more than kita's case. I need to give thrawn a proper reread, but my PoE for scum are poof thrawn kush. | ||
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When did you first think kush might be scum? Why did you find Austin's case more compelling than Kita's given your game-long town read of kush? Why not defend kush since you had been townreading him? Also are you in a zombie army? | ||
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One min Vivax I'll reread your comment on the alignment slip | ||
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Work with me to clarify your thoughts a little. If I understand this post, this is the point you are making: First, hopeless1der says he is unsure of Vivax. Then, hopeless1der says JJD must be town, because if he was scum he would get hopeless and Vivax lynched. Your argument is that Hopeless is saying he sees you (Vivax) as town, which is inconsistent with his prior unsure read? | ||
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On April 07 2014 13:00 Vivax wrote: So how does hopeless that previously thought I was scummy and then goes to null say that JJD is town for not wanting to lynch me? Because I don't think hopeless is saying that JJD doesn't want to lynch you. Rather, hopeless1der is saying that JJD could have given false information regarding his night action result to say that Vivax/Hopeless1der couldn't have done what they said they did. It's hard for me to make much of this because I don't really agree with hopeless there. I mean, it seems to me that if JJD was scum and lied, he would essentially force a 1v2 (JJD vs. Vivax & Hopeless). If we take your point of view, then he is setting himself against at least one town. If you got lynched, flipping town, he would be the next lynch/nuke target basically just get a 1 for 1 which seems like a poor trade for scum. I know that your point isn't that hopeless' comment is wrong, it's that hopeless sees you as town. But, I think even that is sort of off because his comment seems focused on JJD's actions and is explainable if he sees himself as town regardless of your alignment. I will go back to your inconsistency read in a second though since that part feels more understandable | ||
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On April 07 2014 13:13 Amiko wrote: @Hopeless When did you first think kush might be scum? Why did you find Austin's case more compelling than Kita's given your game-long town read of kush? Why not defend kush since you had been townreading him? Also are you in a zombie army? @hopeless I know Vivax answered these for you but I would actually appreciate if you can chime in on them. | ||
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Sorry if we are overwhelming you a bit, but what is this post trying to say? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21139682 Reading it, it felt like you were scumreading kush but I didn't understand why since he had already flipped. I don't see it as particularly scummy so this is a lesser priority for me, but I want to make sure I didn't miss a point you were trying to make. | ||
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First, if the scumometer announces its results we know that he didn't use it because there was no announcement in thread. Well, there is a remote chance that we will get scumometer results in some future post, but it seems pretty unlikely since we didn't get an announcement in the night post. So, let's assume kush had the scumometer and its results are private. As scum, kush already knows the results of using the scumchecker on his scum partners. So, as scum, I would never use the scumcheck on my partner. If I were scum, I would probably want to use the item, just to ensure it can't somehow be reclaimed by town. In that case, I'd target some random town, probably a VT, just to see if they come back as a third party role (or potentially as a miller). I don't really expect a second 3p role, but it's possible (I wrote some stuff about daleks here, moved to the end of the post)Basically, I feel scum has a slight incentive to use the scumometer because (1) it consumes the item, ensuring it cannot be used against them, and (2) in a rare case, it might reveal a potential 3p who could be a scum ally. I guess there is some possibility of using the scumchecker on a scumally to ensure that the player has not been turned back into a town. But, an un-converter role seems like it would be OP for reasons we discussed earlier in the thread so I don't think it would exist (you get unconverted and just reveal all your scum former-allies). RANDOM ASIDE I WROTE MID-POST ABOUT DALEKS / SERIAL KILLERS Actually, I sort of expected a serial-killer role (maybe a dalek?). With 2 KP last night, maybe that's possible... if there is KP and a conversion tonight, we should consider players who were not roleblocked as potentially SK. This doesn't feel that likely to me, however - alternating nights system feels like it makes more sense. I don't have any particular reason to believe in an SK right now, except that it might offset the high number of town protective roles somewhat. Also, thematically, the Dr. Who episode referenced in this game doesn't seem to have any daleks. | ||
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Kita, I don't know for sure if the better nuke is you or hopeless. If you are town, please use what time you can to comment on the connections and I'll do my best to find remaining scum, I think we have a fair shot. I can only hope that the spirit of rayn guides this nuke. ##Nuke kitaman27 If I don't get to talk to you tomorrow (mornings are tough for me to post), gg! Also, as a weird and amusing note, in the Catastrophe Game, Doctor Who just died (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/447045-catastrophe-mafia?page=172#3425) | ||
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 Did I pick wrong?If people in thread can look at interactions between kush and poofter if there are any that could be helpful I'll be back this pm | ||
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On the other hand, feeling relatively good about the kita nuke since he hasn't chimed in. We'll see. My preference is that tomorrow hopeless claims what he saw before anyone confirms their night actions. Since according to his role, as claimed,  the watched person should be randomly selected, this information has a fair chance of being useless. But, if he does see anyone I'd like to have that information handy since maybe it'll be inconsistent with other actions and help us get potential scum down to two or three people.Stay safe and stay town :3 | ||
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If any former VTs claim new powers (maybe... cyber powers?) let us know. So we have something to talk about... @thrawn2112 since you are in thread I think: N1: No kills N2: 2 kills N3: 1 kill Would you speculate a little about setup given the above kill patterns? @austinmcc I want to hear from them first if you don't mind :3 | ||
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(also that means rayn was wrong d1 :D go bug him in obs if you want ) | ||
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I tend to believe kita did track djo n1, then reported he was inventor to his scumteam. Feels somewhat obvious, but scum’s conversions are almost certainly not sequential days or they might seek to convert djo rather than killing him. Maybe more obvious, if scum could convert sequential nights game would be very hard/impossible. I’m not sure if kita used a vigi shot n2 – it seems to me that maybe the conversion just increased scum KP. If kita did vigi shoot n2, then it means that converted players keep their powers, which could be scary (but really isn’t at this point). I feel like there may be conclusions we can draw about whether scum has converted one person or two, but not sure and can’t map it out right now. Also @thrawn2112 Can you confirm/deny if you got any new powers last night? @tehpoofter Can you confirm/deny if you got any new powers last night? | ||
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But maybe when he was converted he lost his doctor-powers. I think that's possible- In this case, he doesn't have any powers, but has to claim some because he is Dr. Who. He uses his initial role, but switches out vigi-shot-powers for less a confirmable protect power. If someone he is supposed to protect dies, he can just claim WIFOM. Town can't tell him to shoot a mafia partner because as far as town knows, he can't vig shoot. | ||
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I'll come back later with tehpoofter comments | ||
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Summary D1, Tehpoofter asks kush a few questions. Some on kita, some on rayn. Seems to be okay with a kita lynch. He later does ask Slam some questions, too. N1, lists vivax, kita, kush, and JJD as top scumreads – he townreads thrawn and Austin. D2, reads thrawn, kush, Austin, and Amiko as town. I have only been looking for posts related to kita right now so I’m not sure if these reads seemed to evolve naturally or not. Poofter sees kush as strongly town, it seems this is largely based on kush’s shot. He feels kush is clear because the vote + day shot would be OP for mafia. I think earlier someone said they liked poofter D1 and didn’t like his D2. (That might have been me, lol, I know I felt scummier on poofter earlier). Rereading, I think poofter’s comments on D2 feel good to me: One of the best posts to see tehpoofter as town is this, I think (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445571-doctor-who-mafia-2?page=95#1886). I quoted it below, too. I’ll talk more about Tehpoofter’s comments on kita later, but he often gives reads on more than one thing at a time so I just wanted to bring it up here, too. He also doesn’t seem afraid to call out both kush and kita again in a later post (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445571-doctor-who-mafia-2?page=107#2130) Thoughts Rereading poofter, one thing that really came across to me is that he often pairs kita and kush together as scum. Maybe this is part of a grander scheme to bus both his allies, but that feels less likely to me. He seems to follow up when he doubts them. He calls out a few posts by kush as scummy, and he only seems to begin to pair the two after unusual interactions between them occur. In sum, I find it difficult to believe tehpoofter is original scum. I’ll look at kush->Tehpoofter and hopefully also Tehpoofter <-> kita as well. Quote copies: + Show Spoiler + On March 30 2014 12:31 Tehpoofter wrote: @kush since you seem to be here and I'm impatient. Does kita start off all games with a random vote? and should Thrawn have known this? On March 31 2014 03:05 Tehpoofter wrote: Anyone else have this same meta read on rayn? (Being new makes meta reading hard and when I play video mafia I base a lot of my play around this I think its far more prevalent as a read in the video version) On March 31 2014 03:05 Tehpoofter wrote: I agree we should lynch the guy wanting to kill not mafia. On April 01 2014 10:12 Tehpoofter wrote: Scum leave Slam alone! There we go slam, now that I've taken care of that. What do you think of kita/kush/hopeless and vivax? On April 01 2014 18:08 Tehpoofter wrote: Town: Thrawn - He seems to be actually taken a back by the fact that he is only finding town, scum needs mislynches so if hes scum hes playing against his win con. Austin - I think his case and the way he fought it was townie. He also had the same line of thinking as me that we shouldn't just lynch SLAM and should try to find real scum sadly he didn't find any scum but neither did I For scum: I want to look at vivax, kita, kush and JJD the most. I don't think they are all four scum but I think there is definitely a scum in there. Vivax for the reason that he tried to bury rayn and then voted slam... like he buries a town and gets off the wagon good lay low scum play imo. Kita: He puhsed on rayn and didn't really seem to listen to his responses during his push if you will note the difference between him and me pushing our cases on rayn I was not really sure and uncertain about if he was scum and austin pointed it out on my case I feel like being sure is more scummy than townie cause I'm trying to figure it out and kita in this case would just need a ML also I pointed out earlier my theory on the vote count thing possibly being from him. Kush: He is here because my town read thrawn wants to know whats up with you. JJD: He says that kita scum slipped calling me and him town maybe he did and kita is scum but it counts against JJD here because I'm in no way confirmed so how does he know I'm town? I mean maybe he read me as town but I didn't see that in his read... I'm going to read his filter after this and see if I missed him calling me town before that but I don't recall it. I ranked my scum and town in order of strongest to weakest. On April 03 2014 20:07 Tehpoofter wrote: I'm around, sadly not converted as apparently we lost our shrink and doctor. That sucks gum played it like that with the name thing. I thought it was interesting kush can do the vote thing and shoot during the day that's a pretty strong town role imo. I think you pointed this out thrawn. I think scum is somewhere between Vivax, Hopeless, Toad.... Vivax for reasons I've stated. Toad because he's claiming to not have a vote that counts and he can't die at night that is like the tree stump role on epic mafia which is kinda useless and easy to claim as mafia (I have done it in video mafia on several occasions) cause you never have to explain why you're alive and you can no vote and absolve yourself of all responsibility. (I've been busy with work and other games so haven't had time to dive but have we confirmed Toad's vote doesn't count?) Hopeless - I believe austin had a case on hopeless where he was around at day end voting on rayn after the claim saying it seemed fake without a cc. I was around then too and had been hard on rayn all day and wanted to get my vote off him to someone else (ended up on the doctor whoops) but still not on the claimed role. Town for me is thrawn, kush, austin, amiko (tenatively cause of the heal and he seems to be piecing the game together) On April 03 2014 20:14 Tehpoofter wrote: Anyways I'm out for the night. I will get up early to be around pre deadline. I'm okay with any of those on my scum list for lynches, preference to vivax. Also @ austin the post you quoted with 4 I still am hardest on vivax, kush is clear I think cause his role with the extra vote and day shot would be insane op for Mafia, Kita I will get up and read on d2 actions and see if he makes the pile but just the brief thread read through nothign stood out. JJD has a nuke and I like what he was doing pressuring hopeless with the fake claim thing it seemed like a really brazen thing to do and not something you'd really want to do as mafia and I think hopeless acted poorly on it. I know I haven't been around but I feel confident on this vivax lynch read my case, maybe kush will come out with a big case like he said in one of his posts but I don't like his posting patterns. night On April 04 2014 07:29 Tehpoofter wrote: How is kita hella town to you? Also why is JJD the possible scum out of the claimed blue roles? On April 04 2014 08:02 Tehpoofter wrote: So first off I'm looking at what we know so far no NK n1 3P survivor, shrink, doctor, Toad's role. We also have other claims at being blue Watcher from hopeless, Kush says hes day vig plus double vote (you didnt use your power today I'm assuming based on the vote counts), Vivax, JJD some types of visiting roles. Also There is someone who gave a nuke to JJD as he said he didn't make it. So we're looking at assuming all roles are blue, 7 blue town power roles and a 3P survivor that seems insanely high to me unless mafia has some big role maybe kill + conversion and I would think points to there being 2+ on the first day or it doesn't seem very balanced. I'll say it now but I think one of the blue roles is most likely mafia, or at the least 3P. Now maybe thats not the case but that only leaves Me, Austin, Kita, DJO, Amiko Thrawn (I believe) and for me I think kita/Djo would be the only possible scum team there I mean Amiko maybe cause of Austin's case I could maybe see him being that constructed but it still reads town so doesn't ping as super scummy to me. So my list of reads atm: Town Hero: Tehpoofter Town: Thrawn Austin Blues: (I think one is scum hopeless claim is the most townie cause it seems silly for scum to claim when they did.) Kush reaction was good to gum even though he shot the medic I'd have done the same as town although his role does seem really strong. Vivax probably the most scummy claim wise cause he was reluctant to give up his visit. But I was going to move my vote off him based on play so I still give him town points. JJD Seemed to try to get hopeless on that whole fakeclaim thing thats the 3rd occurance of him really pushing a scum read on something slip like to me it pings scummy because of my background as I highlighted in a previous post but it may be different on the forums. Kush Vivax Hopeless JJD Neutral Pile: Amiko - Has seemed very town in his posts but austin's case against him makes me question how much of it is off the cuff and not preplanned... its easy to look town if you know whats going on. I don't fully believe this read and would love to have more interaction with Amiko but if all blue claims are real it has to be someone else so he goes to neutral as I'm stronger on thrawn/Austin atm being town. DJO - He hasn't really done much of note for me I was making this list and in my head thought "idk where I stand on DJO tbh" so its null for me and hes not a blue role claim so he stands at neutral. I will try to reread his filter but probably cant get around to it for 6-7 hours as I'm at work and want to catch up on other games as this one is night phase atm. Most likely Scum: Kita - I think he has pushed on two lynches rayn first then vivax if vivax is town this makes him look even scummier in my eyes. He pushed on both their lynches later in the day after I had already been pushing on both from the start of the day he also calls me null when if we're in the same mindset wouldn't he think me more town he doesn't even mention our similar pushes in his reads. Now for me I like that he pushed on those people but he has been around at both EoD when I've been hesitant and reconsidered both my reads and he didn't with rayn or vivax just left his vote where it is. So to me it seems like someone scummy hoping on an established wagon to push someone into a lynch and not reconsidering at EoD. On April 04 2014 08:04 Tehpoofter wrote: @kush he claimed to have visited someone. @thrawn at the time I didn't want to vote a blue and he was the scummiest of the non-blue claims in my eyes. Plus what I stated in my case just above this... its honestly not very strong but more of a PoE thing. Other people looked townier and someone has to be scum type of deal. On April 04 2014 08:05 Tehpoofter wrote: anyways I'm around juist maybe in another thread. I think a massclaim at the start of the day might be the best idea. But I'd like to hear talk on it as the game might be a simple PoE type thing at that point idk the conversion makes it hard so then again it might not be good. I need time to think about it. @Thrawn/kush and those around can you guys make a list of who you think is scum/town so we can have it documented for possible conversions? On April 05 2014 08:35 Tehpoofter wrote: Going to lunch I'll be back in an hour I really want to make a map of all the claims and see if anything seems odd. Kush and Kita really should full role claim. I have a theory that would be interesting in that Since there is so many blue powers when someone gets converted they get a 1 shot nuke... like kush did yesterday and amiko got today. Just something I was thinking about cause how crap this setup is kidna imbalanced for town otherwise assuming role claims are true. Like what kind of town role gets randomly turned into a day vigi? Anyways off to lunch? On April 06 2014 04:25 Tehpoofter wrote: At amiko I don't read the lore as I really haven't seen dr who. Also don't shoot me. This game doesn't make sense. I'm honestly surprised Kita is green. One of our claimed roles is mafia because it can't be just thrown. Maybe multiple roles. What are pEoples theOrieS if I'm town (I know I am but let's venture there)? I like Austin as town I feel like role teams would be vivax/hope or Kush/Kita because they confirm each other but if it's just one fake role it's amiko (I believe he has a shot though) Someone explain how my reads make sense for someone converted and by whom. I was advocating n1 reads and did my own same with n2 I have been very open. So idk why people think I'm converted minus activity drop. I gotta head to work ill post from there. I wasn't converted and am still lame ass vt. Content is down cause I'm in three games. This being the most progressed and least amount of posts. On April 06 2014 06:27 Tehpoofter wrote: @austin I understand your scum case on kush. Where I'm at right now is that there are 2 blue claims verified by each other. Vivax/Hopeless. and Kush/Kita. I have to assume one of them is fake and then maybe + thrawn or amiko? I believe austin's in the most town unless he was converted by Vivax the night JJD and vivax visited and JJD got the check for what he started the night as. But if thats the case I feel like Austin would push on me or thrawn for an easier ML rather than go on kush/kita. I feel like a night shot from amiko would be best because we have more info and if we lynch into the wrong "half" of things he could correct us. This obviously doesn't work if hes scum but if thats the case we probably already lost tbh. On April 06 2014 08:24 Tehpoofter wrote: @austin/others around. So if Kita/kush are mafia how likely is it that its just 2? I mean someone is on the bus train hard or its just them. Maybe amiko is the 3rd the way hes talking but idk... If its kita/kush/amiko then i think it was kita alone then kush then amiko conversion wise. But maybe the n1 stuff could have been an attempt to convert toad and he couldnt' be plus they killed amiko or something. I just don't know if amiko really fits a 3rd there. So I'm wondering what is the third there? (Maybe were lucky and its only 2 but idk) On April 06 2014 08:44 Tehpoofter wrote: yeah vivax new invention each night but can't repeatedly item the same person. Thats how I understand it + the mod announcing. Its odd that he gave the item to kush though. On April 07 2014 04:02 Tehpoofter wrote: ##Vote: Kushm4sta Its time to pick a side and kush's role seems too good to be town. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
Earlier hopeless said he really only saw one post from kush to tehpoofter (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445571-doctor-who-mafia-2?page=135#2682) . I think that’s pretty fair. Kush doesn’t have much interaction with tehpoofter. He does say one post by poofter makes no sense which is actually pretty understandable and sensible (calling on people to give reads). Where kush does comment on tehpoofter, he lists him as a potential scum, usually a third choice. Really, I didn’t feel there was much to say or conclude from kush’s comments on tehpoofter. Like the other set, yeah, kush says some things that look scummy in retrospect, but I don’t feel like their interactions are ever deep enough to say much. I guess given kush’s dismissal of tehpoofter, maybe we should expect poofter to see kush as scummy. That does bear out (having read tehpoofter’s comments on kush earlier), though poofter typically saw kita as scummier than kush. Quote Copies + Show Spoiler + On April 01 2014 21:47 kushm4sta wrote: that vote was a relic from early d1. I didn't even remember about it until poofter just said something. On April 04 2014 07:19 kushm4sta wrote: austinmcc - hella town kitaman27 - hella town Hopeless1der - probably town thrawn2112 - possible scum JarJarDrinks -possible scum Vivax - probably town Djodref - possible scum Amiko - possible scum Tehpoofter - possible scum On April 05 2014 18:23 kushm4sta wrote: ok so i just read kita. d1 is really townie but then his activity falls off a lot. I wasn't really thinking about scum that could have been converted but yeah both kita and tehpoof look like possible conversions. I'm checking kita. On April 06 2014 03:12 kushm4sta wrote: sorry.amiko +thrawn + tehpoofter recruited | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
It's possible there was no conversion last night. Even if there was, there was at least one scum beforehand. So, my preference is between tehpoofter, hopeless, and thrawn for the lynch. After reading hopeless, I felt he could be scum, but less chance than kita. After reading poofter I feel he was pretty towny, though I haven't done kita<->poofter yet. I haven't reread thrawn again yet... maybe I wrote this before but I feel like I didn't come away with too much when I did it before, maybe I will now that kita and kush flipped scum though. Thrawn you felt hopeless would be a better lynch than poofter, correct? Is it that you feel poofter is town? Or that you feel hopeless is scum? What's your thinking when you compare the two? | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
If original scum is likely between you and thrawn, is there anything specific in thrawn's filter that you feel most suggests that thrawn being scum? @Thrawn I think that post is alright, but actually I thought this one was a better sign you were not original scum: On April 02 2014 11:29 thrawn2112 wrote: why aren't you firing it at kita? during the night you said you were treating him as "confirmed scum" Your filter is a little harder to read because you don't quote as much. :[ | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
Initially, questions kita and kush on kita’s read of thrawn. Reads kita as town d1. Read moves toward seeing kita as potential scum; I think this happens around the rayn flip, I’m not exactly sure? Poofter spent a little time talking about kita’s potential scumslip; basically suggesting that kita knew JJD/poofter were town. It could be a complicated bus attempt but I think that’s a more complex and less believable explanation. Thoughts As I mentioned when discussing poofter & kush, I think poofter discusses kush & kita as a potential mafia team with some regularity. He also pushes on kita as a potential lynch as an alternative to lynching among the blue claims. I am not sure he got much traction, but it does feel somewhat consistent. If I were going to make a case for poofter as scum, I think the best post is this one: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445571-doctor-who-mafia-2?page=114#2263 In this post, tehpoofter seems to trust that kush has received a town check kita. Given that he has been contemplating a kush/kita team for a while, I feel tehpoofter’s reaction should be that he doubts about the veracity of the check, not that he is surprised kita is green. The above post did raise an eyebrow… but I feel like when I balance my feelings on poofter against hopeless, I’m still more likely to lynch hopeless. (poofter remember that I said that if you are deciding who to convert :3) Collected Posts + Show Spoiler + On March 30 2014 12:22 Tehpoofter wrote: @kita Is this a meta you expect Thrawn should know? On March 30 2014 12:31 Tehpoofter wrote: @kush since you seem to be here and I'm impatient. Does kita start off all games with a random vote? and should Thrawn have known this? On March 30 2014 12:37 Tehpoofter wrote: I was curious cause you transitioned that early game reaction into a read on him maybe its relevant maybe it isn't. How do you feel that he threw his vote on Slam without even mentioning it in this thread? On March 30 2014 12:42 Tehpoofter wrote: You brought up the point that its something you do every game why bring it up if it didn't matter? I have a hard time imagining that something that small would be a scummy or townie thing either way leaning super neutral to me I was just wondering if it was a meta thing I don't know. On March 30 2014 12:48 Tehpoofter wrote: Oh roger, I actually think it could be something scummy. It definitely isn't townie. IF one was to give out points for things I feel like voting someone without providing a reason especially in a thread where your vote is done in a different place (I'd have never known if I didn't have the thread in another tab open.) is a scummy thing to do. If you think someone is worth voting at least give a reason. On March 30 2014 15:09 Tehpoofter wrote: @rayn what post this game brought up this thought train on kita? The RVS thing? or just a meta ideA? On March 31 2014 03:30 Tehpoofter wrote: He is scum hunting and I think he found on kita. I'm on rayn's wagon to kill rayn. On March 31 2014 03:44 Tehpoofter wrote: This is my exact argument on why we should avoid lynching the like auto lynch that is Slam. If mafia grows in numbers at night or something this is our BEST chance of taking down their numbers. Rayn I have seen you own as town if you're town do that this game but we really need to hit today because of what kita posted... Kita I like you as town. On March 31 2014 06:35 Tehpoofter wrote: I think kita's theory is probably pretty damn accurate if alignment conversions are possible mafia having one would lead to them starting with that many I believe. So thrawn you reading everyone as town? I think you said you believed slam's claim do you think hes likely to be the only 3rd party and if not anyone giving you just an anti-town maybe not mafia vybe? On April 01 2014 06:00 Tehpoofter wrote: Slam is useless but I don't think hes scum. Gumshoe did nothing its a coast bump that. On April 01 2014 07:48 Tehpoofter wrote: I asked questions to probe for other scum reads but to be honest nothing was really happening aside from Slam posting a whole bunch of shit from another game it seemed. I hadn't seen any other scummy things from people at the time I was in a place that I had a weak scum read and I didn't really have anything else to go on or pressure with who was around at the time. The kita case happened and I had the vivax read that really only mattered if rayn flipped town. I believed the claim and still wanted to hit scum over Slam so yeah I didn't do a good job basically. I'm trying to turn it around atm On April 01 2014 11:48 Tehpoofter wrote: I just looked at the vote count thing thats interesting. I am putting on my noob pants for this one are there roles that have vote changing or adding mechanics as both alignments? Or is it more indicative of one or the other? Also thrawn yeah lets put pressure on that Vivax scummy guy. I am not as sure on kita cause he didn't seem to listen to rayn so hes not in my town circle with me you and austin. Also Slam is going to be in the circle too even though hes 3rd party he can work with us for now. What do you think about JJD? He has a small filter its easy to read so check it out. On April 01 2014 11:03 thrawn2112 wrote: This message isn’t from thrawn. If you are actually reading this you are probably town. Put a message including something like “waffle” or “staircase” something in the thread if you see this. Obviously it won’t confirm you, I’ll probably still lynch who seems scummiest, but maybe knowing you were being attentive to this post will make me feel more trusting of whoever is reading it. -Amiko On April 01 2014 18:08 Tehpoofter wrote: Town: Thrawn - He seems to be actually taken a back by the fact that he is only finding town, scum needs mislynches so if hes scum hes playing against his win con. Austin - I think his case and the way he fought it was townie. He also had the same line of thinking as me that we shouldn't just lynch SLAM and should try to find real scum sadly he didn't find any scum but neither did I For scum: I want to look at vivax, kita, kush and JJD the most. I don't think they are all four scum but I think there is definitely a scum in there. Vivax for the reason that he tried to bury rayn and then voted slam... like he buries a town and gets off the wagon good lay low scum play imo. Kita: He puhsed on rayn and didn't really seem to listen to his responses during his push if you will note the difference between him and me pushing our cases on rayn I was not really sure and uncertain about if he was scum and austin pointed it out on my case I feel like being sure is more scummy than townie cause I'm trying to figure it out and kita in this case would just need a ML also I pointed out earlier my theory on the vote count thing possibly being from him. Kush: He is here because my town read thrawn wants to know whats up with you. JJD: He says that kita scum slipped calling me and him town maybe he did and kita is scum but it counts against JJD here because I'm in no way confirmed so how does he know I'm town? I mean maybe he read me as town but I didn't see that in his read... I'm going to read his filter after this and see if I missed him calling me town before that but I don't recall it. I ranked my scum and town in order of strongest to weakest. On April 01 2014 18:16 Tehpoofter wrote: So JJD I'm curious did you think I was town before kita made his "scum slip"? I'm confused by your wording. On April 01 2014 18:20 Tehpoofter wrote: Thrawn this is the scumslip that JJD is thinking he found. Basically kita saying he knows me and JJD are both town is the assumption for JJD's claim. On April 02 2014 12:54 Tehpoofter wrote: agreed. Austin you still in the vivax is town camp? What do you think about my theory that the scum is between those who pushed on rayn but voted slam? <<<These same question to thrawn/JJD/Kita On April 03 2014 20:14 Tehpoofter wrote: Anyways I'm out for the night. I will get up early to be around pre deadline. I'm okay with any of those on my scum list for lynches, preference to vivax. Also @ austin the post you quoted with 4 I still am hardest on vivax, kush is clear I think cause his role with the extra vote and day shot would be insane op for Mafia, Kita I will get up and read on d2 actions and see if he makes the pile but just the brief thread read through nothign stood out. JJD has a nuke and I like what he was doing pressuring hopeless with the fake claim thing it seemed like a really brazen thing to do and not something you'd really want to do as mafia and I think hopeless acted poorly on it. I know I haven't been around but I feel confident on this vivax lynch read my case, maybe kush will come out with a big case like he said in one of his posts but I don't like his posting patterns. night On April 04 2014 04:41 Tehpoofter wrote: I'm about to head to work but wanted to post from my iPad that I agree with Austin's point and toad shouldn't get a bullet but a check or other things. I also am concerned if a Kita hopeless team. Kita has two days now put cases on someone I started to pressure at the start of the day towards the end and vivax giving me the same feeling as rayn yesterday. Off to work I might be switching to Kita/hopeless. On April 04 2014 05:41 Tehpoofter wrote: bah this role claim stuff would happen while I'm commuting and starting work.... @DJO why do you think djo's role is maf sided? ##unvote ##vote kitaman I'm not convinced any of the roles have to be blue even toads but if town lynches a third straight blue we're pretty much SoL. On April 04 2014 05:57 Tehpoofter wrote: So we have like 5 blue roles JJD, Vivax, Hopeless, Kush, Toad supposedly + 2 dead. Like if town really has this much help what on earth does scum have? Thats the best question. I'm uncomfortable lynching into blues thats why I'm on kita cause hes the scummiest of the none blues to me maybe DJO too but he seems to be really wanting to insure we don't mess up. On April 04 2014 08:02 Tehpoofter wrote: So first off I'm looking at what we know so far no NK n1 3P survivor, shrink, doctor, Toad's role. We also have other claims at being blue Watcher from hopeless, Kush says hes day vig plus double vote (you didnt use your power today I'm assuming based on the vote counts), Vivax, JJD some types of visiting roles. Also There is someone who gave a nuke to JJD as he said he didn't make it. So we're looking at assuming all roles are blue, 7 blue town power roles and a 3P survivor that seems insanely high to me unless mafia has some big role maybe kill + conversion and I would think points to there being 2+ on the first day or it doesn't seem very balanced. I'll say it now but I think one of the blue roles is most likely mafia, or at the least 3P. Now maybe thats not the case but that only leaves Me, Austin, Kita, DJO, Amiko Thrawn (I believe) and for me I think kita/Djo would be the only possible scum team there I mean Amiko maybe cause of Austin's case I could maybe see him being that constructed but it still reads town so doesn't ping as super scummy to me. So my list of reads atm: Town Hero: Tehpoofter Town: Thrawn Austin Blues: (I think one is scum hopeless claim is the most townie cause it seems silly for scum to claim when they did.) Kush reaction was good to gum even though he shot the medic I'd have done the same as town although his role does seem really strong. Vivax probably the most scummy claim wise cause he was reluctant to give up his visit. But I was going to move my vote off him based on play so I still give him town points. JJD Seemed to try to get hopeless on that whole fakeclaim thing thats the 3rd occurance of him really pushing a scum read on something slip like to me it pings scummy because of my background as I highlighted in a previous post but it may be different on the forums. Kush Vivax Hopeless JJD Neutral Pile: Amiko - Has seemed very town in his posts but austin's case against him makes me question how much of it is off the cuff and not preplanned... its easy to look town if you know whats going on. I don't fully believe this read and would love to have more interaction with Amiko but if all blue claims are real it has to be someone else so he goes to neutral as I'm stronger on thrawn/Austin atm being town. DJO - He hasn't really done much of note for me I was making this list and in my head thought "idk where I stand on DJO tbh" so its null for me and hes not a blue role claim so he stands at neutral. I will try to reread his filter but probably cant get around to it for 6-7 hours as I'm at work and want to catch up on other games as this one is night phase atm. Most likely Scum: Kita - I think he has pushed on two lynches rayn first then vivax if vivax is town this makes him look even scummier in my eyes. He pushed on both their lynches later in the day after I had already been pushing on both from the start of the day he also calls me null when if we're in the same mindset wouldn't he think me more town he doesn't even mention our similar pushes in his reads. Now for me I like that he pushed on those people but he has been around at both EoD when I've been hesitant and reconsidered both my reads and he didn't with rayn or vivax just left his vote where it is. So to me it seems like someone scummy hoping on an established wagon to push someone into a lynch and not reconsidering at EoD. On April 04 2014 21:00 Tehpoofter wrote: btw I'm totally getting this weird feeling that rayn is in obv chat right now going "WHY IS KITA STILL ALIVE!!!!" I think I might have to channel my inner rayn tomorrow and go ham on kita I don't like that he was around at deadline and the only thing hes said all night is the quote about how JJD is Rose. Kita care to share your reads as of now? If I make a case on you at the start of the day you going to make a bigger case on yourself come end day On April 05 2014 08:35 Tehpoofter wrote: Going to lunch I'll be back in an hour I really want to make a map of all the claims and see if anything seems odd. Kush and Kita really should full role claim. I have a theory that would be interesting in that Since there is so many blue powers when someone gets converted they get a 1 shot nuke... like kush did yesterday and amiko got today. Just something I was thinking about cause how crap this setup is kidna imbalanced for town otherwise assuming role claims are true. Like what kind of town role gets randomly turned into a day vigi? Anyways off to lunch? On April 05 2014 11:14 Tehpoofter wrote: Any reason you wouldn't want to check me? I believe I'm the other VT since amiko claimed his role was changed at the start of day. I would prefer Kita or Thrawn either way. I'd still like to see what kita's role does. So I have been really busy at work and I'd like to sit down and figure out who did what to who and what nights so we can kinda get a time line of events. The whole Hopeless thing when he was talking about his return for tonight read really weird to me that at first Austin did go to kita then didn't. I am kinda regretting whoever brought up that people should all ask for fake role claims from the host because it seems that some have to be fake I mean there is so many roles and I'm VT how was mafia suppose to win with like 7 PR and a medic save and inventions and a cop and a roleblock and an untargetable? I mean you have to assume someone has been converted. So the roleclaim is nice but idk with conversions some of these could be mafia now (at least 2 our if there is 1 conversion a night unless they tried to use it on Slam/Toad. I think one thing to look at is N1 so if we think they saved KP then there is not much to do but if we think they tried to kill and couldn't because of Toad or a save on amiko then it might be good to review people who push on those targets because if I was mafia and saw my NK didn't die I would immediately try to push on them and see if others changed their reads on them overnight (indicating a save) I am at work and honestly not sure I have time to look through but could be a decent route to take. I'll address the questions about my kita read in the next post. On April 05 2014 11:54 Tehpoofter wrote: As for kita I had him on my scum list on N1 and the start of day 1 I did list others as more suspicious but once claims started happening I decided lynching into any blues when we had already lost 2 (shrink/medic) wouldn't be good for town so I went on my top scumread outside the claims which was kita. I'd be interested in theories on the night kills we had 0 then 2. I know the "lovers" role is common on epic mafia I'm not sure how it plays in here but thats one option for the 2 kills. I thought I read something in one of the flavor bits that might have pointed to it but I need to reread closer. I'm glad more people gave reads last night than the night before hopefully we can keep an eye on that and see who goes shifting around. On April 05 2014 12:44 Tehpoofter wrote: @thrawn yeah well my preferred check is kita the only reason I'd say to check you is to reaffirm my read. I still think you're town the way you post about how my post counts dropped cause it most definitely did I don't like making excuses but I am in 2 other games currently and its stretching me thin. I didn't think I would be in all three simultaneously but thats not an excuse. I did still try to hunt scum that day(day2) and brought up a large case on vivax and had him voted up until his claim. I find it hard for you to suggest I was converted if I was who did my read change on? I think I was pretty clear N1 on my reads I can go back and quote the post if you'd like. For the official record I don't currently suspect thrawn and kita is my main suspect I find it odd he withheld information on his role maybe he has a good reason but idk everyone is at least seemingly being transparent. As to the delay on my responses thrawn I'm working trying to post as I can I was off work day 1 so naturally my responses are faster within the half hour I'm off work again this evening and can talk more fluidly. . On April 05 2014 12:56 Tehpoofter wrote: Kita is mafia. JJD had a role that could do something to others kita as mafia would know that its not a medic/shrink/inventor since JJD had the nuke yesterday. Austin lived through the night so unlikely to be vigi my next thought would be cop. JJD was going saying adamantly against kita if I recall correctly. So that was my first thought that Kita didn't want a cop claim with a red on him thus The reason I bring up the lover's thing is cause DJO was a random kill idk why he was targeted. On April 06 2014 04:25 Tehpoofter wrote: At amiko I don't read the lore as I really haven't seen dr who. Also don't shoot me. This game doesn't make sense. I'm honestly surprised Kita is green. One of our claimed roles is mafia because it can't be just thrown. Maybe multiple roles. What are pEoples theOrieS if I'm town (I know I am but let's venture there)? I like Austin as town I feel like role teams would be vivax/hope or Kush/Kita because they confirm each other but if it's just one fake role it's amiko (I believe he has a shot though) Someone explain how my reads make sense for someone converted and by whom. I was advocating n1 reads and did my own same with n2 I have been very open. So idk why people think I'm converted minus activity drop. I gotta head to work ill post from there. I wasn't converted and am still lame ass vt. Content is down cause I'm in three games. This being the most progressed and least amount of posts. On April 06 2014 06:27 Tehpoofter wrote: @austin I understand your scum case on kush. Where I'm at right now is that there are 2 blue claims verified by each other. Vivax/Hopeless. and Kush/Kita. I have to assume one of them is fake and then maybe + thrawn or amiko? I believe austin's in the most town unless he was converted by Vivax the night JJD and vivax visited and JJD got the check for what he started the night as. But if thats the case I feel like Austin would push on me or thrawn for an easier ML rather than go on kush/kita. I feel like a night shot from amiko would be best because we have more info and if we lynch into the wrong "half" of things he could correct us. This obviously doesn't work if hes scum but if thats the case we probably already lost tbh. On April 06 2014 08:24 Tehpoofter wrote: @austin/others around. So if Kita/kush are mafia how likely is it that its just 2? I mean someone is on the bus train hard or its just them. Maybe amiko is the 3rd the way hes talking but idk... If its kita/kush/amiko then i think it was kita alone then kush then amiko conversion wise. But maybe the n1 stuff could have been an attempt to convert toad and he couldnt' be plus they killed amiko or something. I just don't know if amiko really fits a 3rd there. So I'm wondering what is the third there? (Maybe were lucky and its only 2 but idk) On April 07 2014 06:00 Tehpoofter wrote: I have been saying I wasn't sure for awhile its one of kush/kita or vivax/hopeless. ITs one or the other from my POV | ||
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Amiko
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Basically it should say: As the game progresses continues to present see kush/kita as a potential scumteam. He does make some comments that makes me interested on his take on picking between thrawn & Hopeless, however. | ||
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But, I just feel I am unlikely to vote poofter today (despite his idleness), and Austin sounds more convinced that I am. So I feel like if there's a case you can make on thrawn that'd be most likely to go somewhere helpful. I haven't given thrawn as thorough a readthrough as I'd like so you may find some things I haven't given much attention to yet. | ||
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I think hopeless raises three points- re: poofter In the first colored paragraph he quotes, you are saying that you didn’t really get a town read from poofter (there were just traces). In the second (uncolored) paragraph, you repeat a similar sentiment The next two paragraphs are saying that you had a townread on poofter from D1. In other words, I think hopeless’ case on this point is that you are inconsistent with regard to your reads on poofter – you said you saw him town from d1, but your posts reflect you were unsure. @thrawn2112: I don’t really know how significant that point is to me, but if you have a response or want to clarify, go for it. Delays in asking about Doublevote: I don’t feel this is worth talking about, sorry hopeless. I don’t know, I randomly think of things that happened days ago in the thread and ask about them. Conspiracy Theory: I think hopeless is saying thrawn shouldn’t question the use of the scumchecker because town (including him) pushed for checking kita. I don’t find this point compelling only because we can’t tell thrawn’s motives. If he was criticizing the check as a mistake that’d be one thing, but instead it feels like maybe he’s just trying to get information. I don’t know, so I am not putting too much weight into it. Austin I think Austin is playing a little weaker today but it isn’t something worth focusing on beyond this comment. Did you notice he has not #squawked at all since the day started? Anyway I put that in red but I'm mostly kidding... it just doesn't matter right now. We are looking for a scum who has been here since d1, and I don’t think that’s Austin, so if the game doesn’t end after this day phase, we can see what song he sings tomorrow. About tehpoofter- I dunno, I don’t feel that poofter was as towny as you both indicate on D1. But I guess it doesn’t matter to me as much because looking back at his posts with knowledge of kita/kush, he doesn’t look scummy now. @hopeless1der: What did you think of tehpoofter's day 1? @tehpoofter: I understand you may be sick, but I'd encourage you to try to weigh in when you can since you've been absent. At least make sure to vote since if you get modkilled it may make you/us lose. | ||
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I think it is a inconsistent because your later post says you immediately recognized him as town, but the earlier posts indicate some doubt. I'm not sure that it is a significant enough inconsistency that I think you are lying, though, and I do feel the post you put earlier is a fairly good sign you are not d1 scum. Re: hopeless I did find one thing that makes me hesitate on Hopeless- Kush, Kita, and Hopeless all voted for rayn d1. It feels like overplaying a little bit, and honestly I expected hopeless to raise that as a defensive point (so I could feel better about it since he wouldn't know if we would notice it on our own) :s Even so... I still feel hopeless is probably the best vote. I'll be in and out to discuss! ##Vote: Hopeless1der | ||
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On April 10 2014 01:00 austinmcc wrote: Amiko, when you say you weren't as townie on poof's D1 as everyone else, what do you mean? His D1 was the one I didn't like, it was his N1/D2 that pulled me around. Thrawn def. indicated (on this page even) that he read poofter as town d1. I thought you also read him as town d1? On April 09 2014 09:48 austinmcc wrote: I'd be sorta interested in the poofter stuff. Poofter looking scummier than hopeless but also poofter super townie on D1 but also you wanting poofter nuked during the night (and, by the way, wanting kita not-nuked) But glancing at filter I guess you said you weren't sure earlier. On March 31 2014 12:20 austinmcc wrote: Hey slam, I have the ability to make up an item every day and pretend to give it to someone. I will pretend to give you a made-up item if you will assist me. Today I have made up the Cerulean Rectangular Prism ![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/TARDIS2.jpg/220px-TARDIS2.jpg) I will pretend to give you the Cerulean Rectangular Prism in exchange for you completing the following mission. All relevant information for your mission is contained in the following points: (1) I have read the thread. (2) I have summoned forth a mighty frowny face at the focus on slam's claim, mass claiming, and whatever rayn is doing or not doing. (3) Lo, I am not particularly townie on the filter of one tefpoofter. I believe it shows a lot of tiny questions that appear to have little followup or little reason to really be asked, they appear to be questions asked just so that questions could be asked. Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to sally forth into The Hinterlands and report your findings to me. I don't think I have it in me to make a case on this contradiction right now austin >_< | ||
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Did you have any thoughts on the d1 voting pattern I mentioned above? (Kush, Kita, and Hopeless all voted for rayn d1) | ||
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On April 10 2014 02:33 Tehpoofter wrote: I'm sorry boys I'm not going to have the energy to catch up but I've read this whole day. I see we nuked Kita was anyone else on the block? Do we think there is 1 or 2? I appreciate the defense and agree its original scum left most likely (again I've missed a decent chunk of the thread) if we don't have any reason to doubt Austin's status as he was a green check and amiko would have had to nuke his teammate in a situation where the next day he could win its between thrown and hopeless. Hopefully there is just one left seems its on hopeless over thrown. I might be around if I don't go back to sleep when meds kick in. For now I'll go with consensus but try to check in read cause this is a mega uninformed vote on potential lylo so ill do my best to be informed read the previous night ##vote: Hopeless1der (Bolding on an iPad is the worst) @tehpoofter Not sure if there is one or two. But, I feel like there's a good chance the game will end on this lynch (if we lynch properly, hopefully gg. if we mislynch and there's two, gg. if we mislynch and there's one that can convert, gg). That said, I tend to think one scum is left - I think there probably was more than one scum on d1, but I also feel like the no-kill d1 may go hand in hand with conversion. It's possible KP was blocked/saved but I don't know. We have focused too much on whether there is 1 or 2 remaining because either way, the remaining scum was probably scum d1. Suspects are you, hopeless, thrawn. I put some comments on hopeless here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445571-doctor-who-mafia-2?page=132#2640 It was written was before the kita flip, I think. Sadly, I don't and didn't have time to dig into thrawn with the same depth; I found some posts I liked by him ( http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445571-doctor-who-mafia-2?page=138#2741 mentioned a recent one) but it's possible there are others out there that are scummy. I asked hopeless to take a look and he came up with a few things ( http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445571-doctor-who-mafia-2?page=139#2773) but it didn't feel like enough to me. So, I feel like hopeless is a better lynch than thrawn, mostly due to looking at their interactions with kita/kush. But those two are more likely than you (despite your more or less afk). feel better! | ||
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On April 10 2014 02:42 austinmcc wrote: There couldn't have been 4 alive, and 2 are gone. Hopefully just the 1, or we're in big trouble. The numbers would depend on exactly what they do at night, and whether converting is something that can be RBed or not. If only Kush could convert, we should just have 1. If ALL can convert, we have 1 or 2 depending on RB.(Bolding on an iPad is the worst) [/QUOTE] This point is important if we have a night, I think. We are fairly certain that conversion can overcome vet-protection because kita was converted (who was vet) and we are fairly sure it happened N1. We don't know if doctor/jail protects on the target can stop conversions, or whether roleblocks on the converting person stop conversions. I sort of think doctor protects will not save someone but I'm just speculating somewhat wildly based on rayn's role pm. | ||
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"At any rate, I dont think any scum were on rayn right now." I remembered someone said that, but I didn't remember it was hopeless. | ||
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Somewhat reassuring that hopeless trusts austin to win the game after austin votes for him (if hopeless sees austin as mis-reading him, I would think hopeless would have less confidence). @Hopeless1der: I think only question I have: you feel pretty certain scum is more likely to be thrawn than tehpoofter? I know I asked you to focus on thrawn the other day, I'm just wondering if you feel that way independently. (If you are scum it's okay if you ignore this; I don't think my vote will move unless someone claims scum, but it's a comment I'd like to have if you flip town and we do end up with another day) | ||
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I don't think I could have been convinced Austin was the only scum left. I considered he Austin might have been converted; slightly because his play was a little different, but also because I felt like scum would be fairly weak if they only had one conversion. But honestly, it was like, god if I have to deal with him I'll do it tomorrow. I didn't really consider the possibility that he would be converted as the rest of the scumteam died... probably largely my fault for running with the assumption that there wouldn't be 1 scum on D1. Sorry to town but I will remember you in my newly upgraded memory banks. | ||
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The hosts actually corrected a PM to me 2-3 times so I felt like hopeless' claim that he had gotten an error was believable. It didn't occur to me initially, but I felt that rather than involve hopeless, the real effect of the PM-issue was that it made me feel strongly that Vivax was town. In other words, if hopeless was telling the truth, then vivax was town because he roleblocked. If hopeless was lying, he was doing it in a way that made him confirm vivax. It wasn't a 100% modconfirm or anything (and I didn't mention it at all in thread cause I feel like generally just don't talk about mods) so not gamebreaking, but it did make me feel more trusting of Vivax. | ||
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You are insert name here. You have had experience with Cybermen before and know that only through the power of love can someone be redeemed. Each night you can "unconvert" a Cyberman conversion by PMing that person’s name to all the hosts, and that person will be converted back to town from Cybermen. This will only work if you target a player who was converted in the last cycle (day and night) and if that player originally had a town win condition. You win with the Town. I felt like there was no way it would be in the game, however - too OP for reasons discussed in game (I think by austin?) | ||
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@austinmcc: I'm glad you were in this game as a good town role model for me, even if you eventually became scum.  I'm still relatively new to forum mafia (this being my second completed game) and I feel like I picked up some good ways of thinking through players over the course of the game, even if they eventually led me wrong. Thanks for playing! re: Toad/Foolishness: I honestly didn't get bothered by this at all. I know Foolishness has reputation for skill but I just can't imagine sheeping someone who isn't even in the game. (I was more worried that I made alakaslam sad :C ) I am kind of stubborn about these things, I generally would rather just pretend something related to the host or outside players didn't happen. | ||
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The few times tempers flared up they seemed to settle down pretty quickly, the massclaim was a fun puzzle to solve (though I'm not sure if it helped or hurt town to claim), and I felt pretty presidential firing a nuke at robo-kita. Thanks very much for hosting! | ||
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SOMEHOW I AM NOT SATISFIED WITH THIS "VICTORY" I am not that good at understanding setups. To me, conversion was a really difficult aspect of the game to deal with because I didn't know any of the mechanics behind it. It seems like consistency in play across days would be the biggest tell that someone has been converted. But, it's always possible someone will just be sick or busy on a given day, so trying to determine if it's real life of alignment change is tough. I didn't know how conversions worked, so I constantly asked myself if I needed to re-assess everyone every day... and mostly concluded it would be impossible to try :D lol. I was thinking it'd be neat if there was some indication when someone was converted (I don't know... maybe a mechanical scream is announced in a day/night post or something like that). That said, I really don't know if the game was more balanced for town or scum. Town had some weird self-destructive moves, and as kita pointed out, there were quite a few points where slight differences in our play might have tipped the game to a town victory. | ||
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