EPTDoctor Who Mafia 2 - Page 75
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21109993 One thing that may be easy to address- On April 03 2014 04:46 Amiko wrote: Votes on Rayn @anyone in thread I don’t really understand why there seems to be agreement that there are no scum votes on raynpelikoneet, if you are willing to spend a little time on that I’d appreciate it. -- N1 Target Also, to be honest I am a little confused at the idea I would be a n1 kill target. Of the players in this game, I think I have the least experience. I don't think I came out with any super strong reads d1. Compared with other players who claimed blue or strongly hinted at it, I either didn't claim blue or, when I did, no one in the thread seemed to notice or comment on it (there was some discussion with JJD but that was D2). Further, there was some indication I get a night action from my interaction with gumshoe. So... I'm not too sure why I would be a d1 kill target. I mean, I don't see a particularly good regular reason or WIFOM reason to kill me n1 (I am honored though ~). I'll try to review my own filter when I get home and see if anything seems significant. | ||
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Vivax
21767 Posts
On April 03 2014 06:17 Djodref wrote: Hey guyz ! What do you think about Toad ? Would you consider lynching him today ? Rather not atm, what do you think about what he posted on thrawn here? On April 01 2014 04:27 Toadesstern wrote: I wouldn't mind lynching thrawn just for that post to be honest. Not that I have any power to get someone lynched in the first place. I still feel good about the rayn lynch as in I think he's mafia but I do have some lingering fears and this post is exactly what it's feeling like, which also is the reason I'd still prefere the hopeless lynch. Thrawn saying rayn is 100% certain town, saying that kita should be mafia because of that in any normal situation but isn't in this because it makes sense in this situation according to him despite being 100% certain himself that rayn is town right now. Imo looks like someone setting himself up for next cycle which is what I meant with I'm scared. Could be paranoia but I really don't think that's something a town-thrawn would be posting. At all. | ||
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Vivax
21767 Posts
On April 03 2014 06:23 Amiko wrote: I know my earlier post was mostly put to the side since things were happening related to gumshoe, but if anyone has comments on it let me know. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21109993 One thing that may be easy to address- -- N1 Target Also, to be honest I am a little confused at the idea I would be a n1 kill target. Of the players in this game, I think I have the least experience. I don't think I came out with any super strong reads d1. Compared with other players who claimed blue or strongly hinted at it, I either didn't claim blue or, when I did, no one in the thread seemed to notice or comment on it (there was some discussion with JJD but that was D2). Further, there was some indication I get a night action from my interaction with gumshoe. So... I'm not too sure why I would be a d1 kill target. I mean, I don't see a particularly good regular reason or WIFOM reason to kill me n1 (I am honored though ~). I'll try to review my own filter when I get home and see if anything seems significant. There could be a hundred different reasons to why there wasn't a NK so I'd prefer if you talked about possible scummers rather than reviewing your own filter rofl. | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
Please don't try to figure out why mafia would have hit you, it's a waste of time. For a start, you cannot be sure that anybody was actually trying to kill you N1 because... no notifications this game  You can be honored that gumshoe tried to protect you. But you should focus on the lynch target for today, so hum, what do you think about Toad ? | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
@kushm4sta: I think you are cleared green, but I would like answers to the following if you are willing: - You have a vote affecting power and a one-shot vig power? - If you had one-shot vig power, did you consider shooting Alakaslam / someone else yesterday? | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
@Djodref: I'll read and get back to you shortly. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
cleared green -> (cleared town) | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On April 03 2014 06:25 Vivax wrote: Rather not atm, what do you think about what he posted on thrawn here? @ Vivax Regardless of Toad alignment, I have the feeling that Toad didn't understand what thrawn was saying in his post. But there are two things I don't like in this post.
"I really don't think that's something a town-thrawn would be posting. At all." That comes too strong of an assertion for me. | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
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Vivax
21767 Posts
On April 03 2014 06:30 Amiko wrote: wait... @kushm4sta: I think you are cleared green, but I would like answers to the following if you are willing: - You have a vote affecting power and a one-shot vig power? - If you had one-shot vig power, did you consider shooting Alakaslam / someone else yesterday? Oh snap, didn't think of that, why do you call him cleared green when you caught up that notion though? It does make me feel less sure about his claim. | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On April 03 2014 06:40 Vivax wrote: Oh snap, didn't think of that, why do you call him cleared green when you caught up that notion though? It does make me feel less sure about his claim. Ignore kush for the moment. Your thoughts on Toad? | ||
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Vivax
21767 Posts
On April 03 2014 06:42 Hopeless1der wrote: Ignore kush for the moment. Your thoughts on Toad? I prefer to focus on your thoughts, as in, if you think Toad is lynch-worthy then you shouldn't be asking me questions about him but rather trying to lynch him? Anyway, I wanna go over the bits you posted with you. On April 03 2014 05:37 Hopeless1der wrote: **MOD RELATED DISCUSSION** 1) invoking foolishness I find completely unfair, especially as I am the target. This seems to be a huge factor in rayn not giving a shit and yet Toad is still alive and not doing that much. He also mentioned that he disagreed with foolish on how to read slam. It seems that Toad actually had a conversation with foolish about this game. ----- Actual Scumhunty things: 2) In light of the above, Toad accuses rayn of "knowing he's town" (i.e. Toad is telling the truth therefore he must be town). He also notes that Kita is obv town at a time when it didnt seem like a very reliable read and that rayn was "to watch". 3) Completely hung up on Thrawn supposedly having a 100% townread on rayn. I dont think thrawn was that confident, nor is it thrawns responsibility to save rayn. Furthermore, any time anyone brings up ANYTHING else, Toad's default response is 'dunno, havent read that" 4) Who really thought Toad would have been a decent bluesnipe? I do not. 4a)Perhaps he was trying to cover for the fact that gumshoe hero-docced amiko? (Complete conjecture) ad 2) Can you point it out cause I couldn't find that accusation in Toad's filter. ad 3) If you read carefully you see it's not about thrawn just having a townread. Toad's main concern is that thrawn feels like saying first: "Hey, this guy is posting bullshit on a supertownie" and then he says "but I wouldn't lynch him cause of that because he went for strange trap play". Rehashing Toad's point, thrawn WOULD have considered a bad case on rayn lynch-worthy on its own, but he didn't scumread kita cause of his trap play. in Toad's own words: the part that you should not be talking about because it's nonsense unless you know peoples alignment and even given that you still end up with a kind of null on Kita, at the very least not a strong read, so it should be even less of a thing to be worth saying instead of talking about the important things like why rayn should not have been lynched. Kita wasn't about to be lynched, there's no need to "defend" him if you consider that a semi-town read. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
Toad’s post here (link) feels scummy in context. Basically, he had moved his vote from hopeless1der to raynpelikoneet, but his post suggests to me that he sees hopeless as scummier than rayn. To expand a little, he explains his scumread on hopeless1der in that post without any reservations. In contrast, his explanation of rayn has caveats and indicates that he wants more time to read rayn. Now, I have to grant that Toad did move his vote back to hopeless1der in his next post (saying he forgot to change it – http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21091556］link[/url]). But, it still leaves a question as to why he moved it from hopeless1der to rayn earlier. I am mixed on this post by Toad- On April 01 2014 06:34 Toadesstern wrote: I'm basicly saying, it doesn't look like thrawn cared about Rayn being lynched despite having him as 100% certain town When I re-read thrawn I felt like he was not 100% town on rayn (which Toad says a few times). To be fair, though, after rayn flips thrawn said that rayn was obvious town. So that part I was mixed about. I am also mixed because I disagree with Toad some - thrawn did seem to try to take steps to avoid the rayn lynch by encouraging people to get onto gumshoe. However, I think it might have been more effective if he tried to get people onto Slam (at least, I was more likely to move onto Slam over Gumshoe, but I guess it was fairly evenly split). In sum… I don't have a strong read on Toad. sry :c I will consider placing my vote on him to encourage him to give more feedback but won't do so until I get home at the earliest. | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On April 03 2014 07:01 Vivax wrote: I prefer to focus on your thoughts, as in, if you think Toad is lynch-worthy then you shouldn't be asking me questions about him but rather trying to lynch him? Anyway, I wanna go over the bits you posted with you. ad 2) Can you point it out cause I couldn't find that accusation in Toad's filter. ad 3) If you read carefully you see it's not about thrawn just having a townread. Toad's main concern is that thrawn feels like saying first: "Hey, this guy is posting bullshit on a supertownie" and then he says "but I wouldn't lynch him cause of that because he went for strange trap play". Rehashing Toad's point, thrawn WOULD have considered a bad case on rayn lynch-worthy on its own, but he didn't scumread kita cause of his trap play. in Toad's own words: 2) On March 30 2014 15:44 Toadesstern wrote: well duh, that's not against the rules though and it's pretty common and happens all the time. The first part at least. The second part, who cares I've said so pregame anyways so you would have known. The second part yeah, but you don't know if I'm telling the truth, unless for some reason you do? That's the whole point of mafia, you shouldn't be able to tell if my reads are really my reads or if I'm making up some bullshit. It's literally the same thing, except that you apparently seem to know that I'm not lying about this? 3) Player K makes "bad" case on townread R. Thrawn is suspicious of K (reasonable). Thrawn thinks "bad" case is scummy. (reasonable). Thrawn assesses the relationship between "bad" and A, concludes A is not that scummy for "bad". Moves on to actual preferred lynch G. I don't see a huge scumread jumping out at me there. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
On April 03 2014 06:40 Vivax wrote: Oh snap, didn't think of that, why do you call him cleared green when you caught up that notion though? It does make me feel less sure about his claim. It makes me feel less sure but I also feel kind of dumb asking that question when the answer is obviously yes. It feels odd that he could have both powers though, right? I tend to believe he is town despite that oddness because his actions with gumshoe feel like independent confirmation. Gumshoe claims a name, kushm4sta says no that's my name and shoots gumshoe. I er... I really don't know why gumshoe did that. It seems to me that he could just fake his powers and use the same character name. Regardless, kush's response feels confirming because he calls gumshoe out on the name. Thus, I feel kushm4sta does have that character's name. It is possible kush was converted n1. But, if that's the case you have to believe converted characters either retain their powers (which the more I think about it, the more it seems crazy to consider), or converted characters become 1-shot vigs (which is probably even more crazy) Since the character seems like an obvious town name to me, I think kush is town. Plus, it makes total sense to me as town to shoot someone fakeclaiming as you | ||
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
The thing is, Toad had Hopeless has scum, and for a long time (from the beginning of the game until rayn's lynch, because he still mentions hopeless as a better lynch in his post), but did you feel like he was really trying to convince people to vote Hopeless ? It's very convenient to have a scumread on Hopeless as mafia because Hopeless is scummy (if we assume here Toad mafia and Hope town). But you don't really want him lynched, you prefer to have him until lylo of this kind of situation. Toad had Hopeless as scum almost for all D1 and didn't try to push a lynch on him. He was ok with rayn lynch. Despite having Hopeless as scum for D1, it looks like he forgot about it N1 and D2. Plus, Toad is not really playing. I think these reasons are good enough to vote him. | ||
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Vivax
21767 Posts
On April 03 2014 07:07 Hopeless1der wrote: 2) 3) Player K makes "bad" case on townread R. Thrawn is suspicious of K (reasonable). Thrawn thinks "bad" case is scummy. (reasonable). Thrawn assesses the relationship between "bad" and A, concludes A is not that scummy for "bad". Moves on to actual preferred lynch G. I don't see a huge scumread jumping out at me there. Now that you've shown me point 2 I don't even know what that's supposed to tell us. Wtf is this supposed to prove? You make observations about what Toad says, no conclusion. 2) In light of the above, Toad accuses rayn of "knowing he's town" (i.e. Toad is telling the truth therefore he must be town). He also notes that Kita is obv town at a time when it didnt seem like a very reliable read and that rayn was "to watch" Ad 3 ) You misread/misrepresented/ignored, now you give the opinion on what actually happened (and not what you said was Toad's point, being hung up on rayn 100%). I just corrected what you said there, and what comes out is another defense of thrawn. You defend thrawn for that reasoning. A reasoning which is in polar opposition to yours since you actually sheeped the case he found bad, hence I have a hard time figuring out why you seem to townread thrawn so easily when he's not in the same mindset as you when you saw kita's case. I point out the mistake, as answer comes a defense of thrawn. TOAD, hopeless. What's the whole deal with Toad here? All these points are supposed to show he's scum, right? What is your objective, proving he's scum or proving that his arguments are bad?# scummeter rising | ||
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Vivax
21767 Posts
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