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Doctor Who Mafia 2 - Page 139

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Amiko
Profile Joined February 2014
United States1725 Posts
April 08 2014 20:39 GMT
#2761
I omitted some of the summary by accident, sorry.
Basically it should say:

As the game progresses continues to present see kush/kita as a potential scumteam. He does make some comments that makes me interested on his take on picking between thrawn & Hopeless, however.
thrawn2112
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6918 Posts
April 08 2014 21:10 GMT
#2762
austin do you remember back in D1 when I asked you that question about hopeless taking advantage of his meta? here's what I mean

in titanic 3 i called him useless town hopeless. here is how he responded

On March 22 2014 00:25 Hopeless1der wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2014 00:15 thrawn2112 wrote:
koshi re hopeless:

my reasons for changing that read at that time was that I liked the way hopeless carried himself whenever he returened to the thread (after my q/a session with him) and he did ok under pressure

as for my current town read on hopeless..

a lot of what palmar just said about hopeless is why I'm townreading him. he's just... kinda harmless so far? not only harmless, but he DID sheep the right wagon. I think I explained earlier that I think there is a difference between town sheeping and scum sheeping, scum selectively sheep according to their mafia agenda, while town will often sheep quite willy nilly, which is closer to how hopeless has been sheeping. there doesn't seem to be any malicious agenda behind it. it's simply sheeping for the sake of sheeping, which is actually a pretty good and townie strategy depending on what type of player you are.

rayn and other people are talking about how helpful and enlightening hopeless can be as town and I disagree with that.



I'm not always useless...just usually


so I was pretty rude there, and how does hopeless respond? in a pretty natural and honest way. titanic 3 is not the only game where town hopeless had a reaction similar to what I quoted, I know that it's happened a few times before because I distinctly remember feeling bad every time I call hopeless useless or whatever, because of the emotional way he always responds to it. i will go look through our past games and provide quotes if needed.

how does he respond to me saying the same thing in this game?

On March 31 2014 06:24 Hopeless1der wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 31 2014 06:21 thrawn2112 wrote:
you are absolutely useless and sadly probably town for it

Show nested quote +
On March 29 2014 00:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:
17. Hopeless1der - usually looks scummy regardless of alignment i really don't know why

I have a meta to maintain


here he does not have a natural reaction to my rudeness. he plays off his meta and doesn't seem offended by something that should have offended him and has offended him in the past. he's actually pretty willing to indulge my rudeness, since he's being called town for it.
"People think they know all these things about other people, and if you ask them why they think they know that, it'd be hard for them to be convincing." ES
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
April 08 2014 21:18 GMT
#2763
thrawn, we explicitly tried to abuse that meta read in I think LXIII when we were both scum and wanted to pull a fast one on rayn iirc. This makes me have bad feelings about thrawn now. I should get his filter open in the next hour or so to start going through it under the assumption that thrawn is the last scum (as per amiko's request)
thrawn2112
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6918 Posts
April 08 2014 21:23 GMT
#2764
what does lxiii have to do with anything? we didn't try to abuse it, i tried to abuse it, you weren't even reading the qt qhen it happened. and you didn't get upset in there, you got angry.
"People think they know all these things about other people, and if you ask them why they think they know that, it'd be hard for them to be convincing." ES
Amiko
Profile Joined February 2014
United States1725 Posts
April 08 2014 21:25 GMT
#2765
@Hopeless, you can certainly talk about tehpoofter if you think he's the better choice. If you read thrawn and conclude he's town, then you can still say that and make a case for poofter.

But, I just feel I am unlikely to vote poofter today (despite his idleness), and Austin sounds more convinced that I am.
So I feel like if there's a case you can make on thrawn that'd be most likely to go somewhere helpful.

I haven't given thrawn as thorough a readthrough as I'd like so you may find some things I haven't given much attention to yet.
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
April 08 2014 21:26 GMT
#2766
On April 09 2014 06:23 thrawn2112 wrote:
what does lxiii have to do with anything? we didn't try to abuse it, i tried to abuse it, you weren't even reading the qt qhen it happened. and you didn't get upset in there, you got angry.


->From LXIII
On November 18 2013 14:16 Hopeless1der wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 18 2013 13:45 thrawn2112 wrote:
##unvote
##vote:hopeless1der






Fuck it, Yolo

##Vote: iamperfection
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
April 08 2014 21:27 GMT
#2767
lol wrong game

##unvote
##Vote: thrawn2112
Amiko
Profile Joined February 2014
United States1725 Posts
April 08 2014 21:27 GMT
#2768
wrong thread
thrawn2112
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6918 Posts
April 08 2014 21:28 GMT
#2769
me bussing you and you posting a sad face is not the same as town me calling town you bad and your response showing that you are obviously upset
"People think they know all these things about other people, and if you ask them why they think they know that, it'd be hard for them to be convincing." ES
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
April 08 2014 21:33 GMT
#2770
From our Mafia QT: /m308
hey hopeless, really go crazy on my "u mad" post

remember the town tell I'm looking for is sadness or depression, not anger. town hopeless gets sad in these situations
thrawn2112
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6918 Posts
April 08 2014 21:38 GMT
#2771
hopeless you weren't in the fuckign qt when that happened. you didn't even know what was going on. and i was scum, you were scum, so obviously whatever reaction you had doesn't mean shit because you knew I was just posting in such a way in order to win us the game. and your reaction in that game was completely different to how you respond when you're town. in that game you got angry and when you're town you get sad

so nothing from lviii has anything to do with what I'm talking about

and that's why you're voting for me?
"People think they know all these things about other people, and if you ask them why they think they know that, it'd be hard for them to be convincing." ES
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
April 08 2014 22:27 GMT
#2772
Vote Count

Hopeless1der (1) - thrawn2112
thrawn2112 (1) - Hopeless1der

Not Voting (3) - austinmcc, Amiko, Tehpoofter


Currently Hopeless1der is set to be lynched!


The lynch will happen in at 21:00 GMT (+00:00).
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
April 08 2014 22:59 GMT
#2773
Thrawn's Read Re: tehpoofter, some quotes highlighted red for emphasis, Things that I think are general inconsistencies based on the same information.
+ Show Spoiler +
On March 31 2014 16:52 thrawn2112 wrote:
idk. i think tehpoofter is more involved in the thread than a lot of people. he's definitely more engaged than he was in that last game. i'm not getting the same 'newbie town' vibe that I instantly got from him last game but traces of it are still there. like i think he's town, but he might just be more confident now and that's interfering with my noob reading abilities.

and you think he is scum because his read of you is based on poor meta reasoning? lol would you expect him to have a good understanding of meta?


On April 05 2014 11:39 thrawn2112 wrote:
also, I can no longer feel that special "tehpoofter" tingly feeling that lets me know he is 100% townie


On April 06 2014 05:33 thrawn2112 wrote:
except that I love poofter's D1 and don't like him too much since


On April 08 2014 15:21 thrawn2112 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2014 15:13 Amiko wrote:
I see the game state like this:
It's possible there was no conversion last night. Even if there was, there was at least one scum beforehand.

So, my preference is between tehpoofter, hopeless, and thrawn for the lynch.

After reading hopeless, I felt he could be scum, but less chance than kita.
After reading poofter I feel he was pretty towny, though I haven't done kita<->poofter yet.
I haven't reread thrawn again yet... maybe I wrote this before but I feel like I didn't come away with too much when I did it before, maybe I will now that kita and kush flipped scum though.

Thrawn you felt hopeless would be a better lynch than poofter, correct?
Is it that you feel poofter is town? Or that you feel hopeless is scum? What's your thinking when you compare the two?


Yes, tehpoofter's D1 looks incredibly townie. I think there's no possible way for him to be original scum. I played with him in a game right before this, and I immediately recognized him as town based off his first post. His D1 in this game felt close enough to that other game for me to give him the same read. Not only that, but his activity in this game was like 3x his activity in the other game. He's a new player and I don't think many new players are capable of having a more active scum game than town game. I haven't looked much into hopeless filter yet but that's just because of how strongly I feel about tehpoofter's D1.

BTW. There is no way that I'm original mafia and I make this post during N1:

Show nested quote +
On April 01 2014 11:00 thrawn2112 wrote:
yep, what slam just said. You and austin are both pretty strong town reads for me. Toad seems town, i guess? He made a pont about him becoming less worried about me after i started responding to him normally, and now i'd like to make the pont that I like that he likes that i started responding to him normally. The only voter not on the rayn wagon was gumshoe. Simply due to the number of town reads I have, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he was mafia. Austin made a good pont earlier n that his inactivity shouldn't be alignment indicative becasue he posts more as scum and town, but it's his willingness to troll about flavor and be absolutely useless when he does post that makes him scummy.

I still thnk that kita was probably right, that there wern't that many mafia members on D1. Or even if it was some sort of X role (i cant remember the role name, it';s where you are mafia but dont know alignments and your team has to find you) then they would still be hard to find becaue they'd be posting without information about alignments, so they would look like town.

So I think the remaining (likely few, or few "catchable" mafia) would be on the rayn wagon.

kushm4sta, hopeless1der, kitaman27, Amiko, raynpelikoneet (5)

hosts can you clarify that the final votecount which showed 6 on rayn is correct

I didnt pay full attention to the argument slam had about the votecounts but didn't hosts confirm that the count was accurate? that would be there are some hidden voting mechanics going on. People need to claim this ASAP if this is the case imo.

So who on that list is likely to be mafia? I doubt it's kita. I was slightly townreading him for his gimmick at the start of the game, and he made a very casual post near the deadline about "here comes the swtich" which I don't excpect to come form a scum player who is about to get their mislynch. I don't thionk hopeless is scum, i'd like to sheep rayn and austin's reads on him. Amiko I previously thought was town, I will read his filter again and tell you what I think in a bit. But I remember townreading him for all the research he did at the start of the game.

and that leads me to.....

KUSH get the fuck in here


note that I was the first person to notice and call out the extra vote mechanics. i talked about the extra vote for much of N1, talking about how scummy it was and how the person who did it needs to claim, etc. do you really think I would do that if I were kush's scummate?

I know that when he finally announced that the extra vote was his, I townread him for it even after saying the extra voter is probably mafia. But I think my reasons for doing so were justified, and if you read the post where that happens it should come across as pretty honest because I was speaking very directly about the weird state of my read on kush.



Stuff about Kush's double vote + fake scumometer
+ Show Spoiler +
Initial reaction to Kush's doublevote claim
On April 02 2014 09:53 thrawn2112 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 02 2014 09:47 kitaman27 wrote:
You still think kush is sketchy?

When I went to look at him originally, I found these quotes from persona and golden sun where he was town, which seems to match the same mentality this game.

On September 16 2013 20:56 kushm4sta wrote:
OP might not be survivor but he is probably 3p of some type. All the scum are going to be dying to kill him because he is an easy lynch with obvious reasons for wanting to lynch him.


On September 17 2013 23:05 kushm4sta wrote:
If i was cop I would defend a survivor in TWO SECONDS because it's a dumb lynch if he's a survivor.


On August 21 2013 03:48 kushm4sta wrote:
yawn, boring discussion about survivors. scum love this shit.


It lines up with his position of not lynching slam and suggesting that we look at those that do since mafia are likely to go after third party targets. His post length seems to be what I would expect from a town kush as well.


so my read on kush is kinda fucked

1) going into N1 i was more interested in hearing from him. i town read him early, but he hadn't done much so I needed to see him post more. AND since I was townreading so many other people and felt more confident about those reads, I thought he muight just be scum because of PoE

2) i thought that the hidden vote mechanic must come from mafia

3) kush claims the hidden vote

4) now I think kush is town again lol

it was the way he claimed it that made me think he's town. he wasn't defensive about it and didn't seem to understand that people would find him suspicious for using a hidden vote to lynch town rayn. if he was scum he probably would have not claimed it or the claim would have been at least a bit defensive
-> Kush town for doublevote claim

Later on
On April 05 2014 05:56 thrawn2112 wrote:
i'm most interested in hearing kush's full claim. in fact I think i will be policy voting him until he posts it, becasue I don't think the sneaky extra D1 vote sistuation has been resolved adequately

On April 05 2014 10:43 thrawn2112 wrote:
why didn't you inform town that your vote was going to count twice on D1?


note that its like 3 days later before thrawn wants to question Kush for his double vote...but he's already given kush a townread so....what?



Conspiracy theory:
Since Kush faked his check, this quote looks bad
On April 05 2014 10:58 thrawn2112 wrote:
i would prefer a check only on one of kita/me, especially if it's an insta-check

After Kush fakes his check:
On April 06 2014 10:09 thrawn2112 wrote:
kush why did yu check kita after townreading him all game
Seems like a pointless question when the thread consensus was calling for a check on kita.


Also, please click on this for context:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21138271
Discussion around this post gives me pause.
Thrawn initially says "lol" at the notion that Kush faked his claim, then seems to come around to kita being scum, then wants to nuke poofter in a very nonchalant, non-committal way.

This kind of brings me back to his read on poofter:
Currently, poof looks scummier than me, but thrawn's day1 read of poof outweighs everything else. Why was this not the case when the nuke was up for targeting? Why is it reasonable that for Day2 its reasonable to consider poof for scum but Day3 poof's Day1 play trumps everything else?




On April 06 2014 15:50 thrawn2112 wrote:
i dont remember if i've played with mafia hopeless. i do remember playing with town hopwless, and most of the time I am very very certain about him being mafia at some point in the game until I realize that it's hopeless to scum read hopeless for the kinds of things that town hopeless is capable of saying

so it's based on past experience. i basically just gave up and decided that scummy hopeless doesn't equal a scum hopeless... which is a lesson i've had to learn over and over again.

and I was sheeping rayn a little

Maybe I jogged his memory, but thrawn was pretty quick to recall the details of how he told me that I got angry in LXIII and had to coach me (in the qt that I wasnt even reading at the time) that I should look sadder
This post made me sketchy on thrawn, and only recently do I have some proof that he was (kind of?) lying.
thrawn2112
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6918 Posts
April 09 2014 00:30 GMT
#2774
lol
"People think they know all these things about other people, and if you ask them why they think they know that, it'd be hard for them to be convincing." ES
thrawn2112
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6918 Posts
April 09 2014 00:37 GMT
#2775
anyone else, let me know if you want me to respond to hopeless case and specify what parts you want answers to.
"People think they know all these things about other people, and if you ask them why they think they know that, it'd be hard for them to be convincing." ES
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
April 09 2014 00:48 GMT
#2776
On April 09 2014 09:37 thrawn2112 wrote:
anyone else, let me know if you want me to respond to hopeless case and specify what parts you want answers to.
I'd be sorta interested in the poofter stuff.

Poofter looking scummier than hopeless but also poofter super townie on D1 but also you wanting poofter nuked during the night (and, by the way, wanting kita not-nuked)
Fe fi fo fum.
thrawn2112
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6918 Posts
April 09 2014 00:51 GMT
#2777
that's because right now we are looking for original scum. during all the nuke discussion we weren't. the only times this game where I ever thought tehpoofter might be mafia, I thought that he was mafia who got converted. so kita's flip changes that.
"People think they know all these things about other people, and if you ask them why they think they know that, it'd be hard for them to be convincing." ES
thrawn2112
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6918 Posts
April 09 2014 00:53 GMT
#2778
if you are talking about the red/blue quote stuff hopeless wrote, then lol, those aren't even contradictions. i dont have much to say about that part of his post
"People think they know all these things about other people, and if you ask them why they think they know that, it'd be hard for them to be convincing." ES
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
April 09 2014 00:54 GMT
#2779
no not that bit
Fe fi fo fum.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
April 09 2014 00:55 GMT
#2780
Or, to be more specific, I was talking about the bit that you talked about, and not the red/blue bits.

bits bits
Fe fi fo fum.
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