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On June 25 2009 04:09 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 04:05 Clasic wrote:On June 25 2009 04:00 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 03:31 Clasic wrote:On June 25 2009 03:28 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 03:25 GoodWill wrote:On June 25 2009 03:09 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 02:53 InfeSteD wrote:On June 25 2009 02:44 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:On June 25 2009 02:39 hixhix wrote:
[quote]
If your counter argument is like that, I have no interest to continue the discussion with you. Because you have no reasonable answer? Because you know he's right? On June 25 2009 02:43 floor exercise wrote:
[quote]
Does this come in car analogy form as well? That's not even remotely close to the guns/car analogy. A DEATH sentence for drug trafficking? That is absolutely ridiculous. Prison time? Absolutely. Really large fines? Absolutely. Death? It's excessive. My best friend dissapeared for 2 years on me.. I would call his mom, friends, everyone and nobody could tell his whereabouts... one time he called me from the hospital saying he was dying he couldnt move any parts of his body... later on he told me he was addicted to heroin, slept in the streets, stole money, stole houses, lost everything he had.. and this friend of mine was a straight A student, never drank or smoke or did anything bad.. he was really responsible, etc (u get the point) he almost died because of that shit... Im not saying death penalty is ok, but then again makes me think.. who do I rather have died.. the 1 person causing all this or a shitload of people because of 1 person? And this is the dealer's fault and not your friend's how? Are you suggesting that profiting from these addictive substances is fair so long as buyers are not coerced into it? As long as there's no coercion or fraud, yeah. *Sigh* You realize these people made one bad choice in their life and now they can't get off the drug, correct? The dealer is killing thousands, even millions of people and hes profiting from it. You don't think the murder/torture of thousands is completely alright? I suppose bartenders are murderers too. Yeah, I guess they are. Except Alcohol is legal. So is skydiving. I suppose companies that provide the planes for skydiving and let people pack their own chutes are murderers too. Let's demonize everyone who doesn't prevent someone else from doing something stupid!
Your analogies suck, as does your way of "arguing". You throw in one sentence and completely disregard everything else someone is saying.
This analogy suck because they allow people to pack their own chute. They don't provide broken chutes. Notice the difference? Who is to say cocaine won't kill people? Does it pass quality tests? No, because it's illegal. I know that you're trying to make a rather abstract argument by saying it shouldn't be punished because it is not, in fact harmful to anyone, but it is. It's much more harmful than alcohol and smoking combined. Smokers and drinkers mostly kill themselves, which is OK! Cocaine can EASILY lead to killing others, which is NOT OK. And yes, drunk drivers should be shot.
Anything else?
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On June 25 2009 04:14 BalliSLife wrote:
so you can't blame the drug dealer? that is so stupid why do you think they are making examples out of these people?
It's nice to get re-elected each year and keeping it illegal is a much easier way of looking like youre doing something
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On June 25 2009 04:49 animus123 wrote:
wow there's a lot of self righteous people in this thread. Hope you can see us little people from that moral highground you have up there. I'll be quite happy with the realists down here.
Some dude brought heroin into china. Heroin is a terribly destructive drug. It RUINS lives. It doesn't fucking matter if the dealer, the trafficker, or the user are the responsible ones or not. All i know is that they are destroying people's lives through their actions.
They're all worthless criminals. I wish the drug laws in the USA were a lot harsher than the silly little slap on the wrists that we take. Drugs are bad mmmk?
That's a hilarious way to open a self-righteous post advocating authoritarian policies.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
On June 25 2009 04:43 Jayme wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 04:36 Clasic wrote:On June 25 2009 04:09 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 04:05 Clasic wrote:On June 25 2009 04:00 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 03:31 Clasic wrote:On June 25 2009 03:28 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 03:25 GoodWill wrote:On June 25 2009 03:09 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 02:53 InfeSteD wrote:
[quote]
My best friend dissapeared for 2 years on me.. I would call his mom, friends, everyone and nobody could tell his whereabouts... one time he called me from the hospital saying he was dying he couldnt move any parts of his body... later on he told me he was addicted to heroin, slept in the streets, stole money, stole houses, lost everything he had.. and this friend of mine was a straight A student, never drank or smoke or did anything bad.. he was really responsible, etc (u get the point) he almost died because of that shit...
Im not saying death penalty is ok, but then again makes me think.. who do I rather have died.. the 1 person causing all this or a shitload of people because of 1 person? And this is the dealer's fault and not your friend's how? Are you suggesting that profiting from these addictive substances is fair so long as buyers are not coerced into it? As long as there's no coercion or fraud, yeah. *Sigh* You realize these people made one bad choice in their life and now they can't get off the drug, correct? The dealer is killing thousands, even millions of people and hes profiting from it. You don't think the murder/torture of thousands is completely alright? I suppose bartenders are murderers too. Yeah, I guess they are. Except Alcohol is legal. So is skydiving. I suppose companies that provide the planes for skydiving and let people pack their own chutes are murderers too. Let's demonize everyone who doesn't prevent someone else from doing something stupid! you don't get the point. its legal, they can do it. heroin in most country's is not, don't do it. I think the real issue here is that saying the dealer is any less to blame than the buyer just doesn't work. Just about any buyer is going to know how fucked up you can get from Heroin and yet he still made the choice to do it. There are several obviously bad choices in life that have very detrimental effects to your health. Taking heroin is one, playing on a freeway is another. A lot of the most detrimental things in life however are also the easiest to avoid.
Hmm, ok I guess. Its a pretty hard issue to debate on IMO. Because I really do blame the user 100% for trying it for the first time when they know they're going to get their life fucked up. After their heavily addicted I blame it 70% dealer 30% user because the user just wanted to try something to go through with their fucked life, and the dealer is making a profit from ruining it. Try quitting cig's. If you can successfully quit cigarettes, thats about how hard it is to quit heroin, just a little more, but of course this all differs from body to body. Yeah, it is the users fault but without the dealer they never would of tried the drug. The user is still going to get a dealer so its w/e.. I'm done talking lol. I'm just going to start reading reply's and if their is something really debatable then I'll type some more comments lol.
Edit : Also
Your analogies suck, as does your way of "arguing".
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LOL at people thinking this is too harsh of a punishment, I wonder if you've lived the violence experimented due to this subjects. You really have no clue how much damage this people cause. And what, feed them with your taxes when you put them in jail????
imo i know death penalty is expensive, but this people never regenerate, why give them the chance to escape or keep running their business from the inside? Really, the world wont miss those scumbags. Fuck em
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i wish mexico had this laws
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Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
On June 25 2009 04:58 Night[Mare wrote:
LOL at people thinking this is too harsh of a punishment, I wonder if you've lived the violence experimented due to this subjects. You really have no clue how much damage this people cause. And what, feed them with your taxes when you put them in jail????
imo i know death penalty is expensive, but this people never regenerate, why give them the chance to escape or keep running their business from the inside? Really, the world wont miss those scumbags. Fuck em
They shouldn't even use the electric chair imo, just get a fucking gun and a bullet and shoot the man.. Doesn't require much money, and is fast and simple.
Yeah really. These heroin users would kill people, raid houses, rob old women, do anything to get heroin, and WHY? because of the dealer and their poor choice of trying the drug.
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If you wanna take the risk to make a quick buck, suck it up when you get caught. You know China doesn't fuck around with things like this, if that isn't deterrent enough, you lose at life.
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Canada9720 Posts
you guys are pretty fucked
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On June 25 2009 04:49 CubEdIn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 04:09 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 04:05 Clasic wrote:On June 25 2009 04:00 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 03:31 Clasic wrote:On June 25 2009 03:28 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 03:25 GoodWill wrote:On June 25 2009 03:09 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 02:53 InfeSteD wrote:On June 25 2009 02:44 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:
[quote]
Because you have no reasonable answer? Because you know he's right?
[quote]
That's not even remotely close to the guns/car analogy. A DEATH sentence for drug trafficking? That is absolutely ridiculous. Prison time? Absolutely. Really large fines? Absolutely. Death? It's excessive. My best friend dissapeared for 2 years on me.. I would call his mom, friends, everyone and nobody could tell his whereabouts... one time he called me from the hospital saying he was dying he couldnt move any parts of his body... later on he told me he was addicted to heroin, slept in the streets, stole money, stole houses, lost everything he had.. and this friend of mine was a straight A student, never drank or smoke or did anything bad.. he was really responsible, etc (u get the point) he almost died because of that shit... Im not saying death penalty is ok, but then again makes me think.. who do I rather have died.. the 1 person causing all this or a shitload of people because of 1 person? And this is the dealer's fault and not your friend's how? Are you suggesting that profiting from these addictive substances is fair so long as buyers are not coerced into it? As long as there's no coercion or fraud, yeah. *Sigh* You realize these people made one bad choice in their life and now they can't get off the drug, correct? The dealer is killing thousands, even millions of people and hes profiting from it. You don't think the murder/torture of thousands is completely alright? I suppose bartenders are murderers too. Yeah, I guess they are. Except Alcohol is legal. So is skydiving. I suppose companies that provide the planes for skydiving and let people pack their own chutes are murderers too. Let's demonize everyone who doesn't prevent someone else from doing something stupid! Your analogies suck, as does your way of "arguing". You throw in one sentence and completely disregard everything else someone is saying. This analogy suck because they allow people to pack their own chute. They don't provide broken chutes. Notice the difference?
Ugh, the drug was meant to be analogous to the plane and the self-packed chute to the user's own actions.
Who is to say cocaine won't kill people? Does it pass quality tests? No, because it's illegal.
I think I've already addressed this. Dealers should be as upfront and truthful about what they're selling as anyone else. Beyond that, if it's the user that wants to buy a gram of cocaine that he's been told has been cut with flour then that's his prerogative.
I know that you're trying to make a rather abstract argument by saying it shouldn't be punished because it is not, in fact harmful to anyone, but it is. It's much more harmful than alcohol and smoking combined. Smokers and drinkers mostly kill themselves, which is OK! Cocaine can EASILY lead to killing others, which is NOT OK. And yes, drunk drivers should be shot.
I would rather punish people who actually harm others rather than those who you think could.
Anything else?
[insert snide remark]
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On June 25 2009 04:55 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 04:49 animus123 wrote:
wow there's a lot of self righteous people in this thread. Hope you can see us little people from that moral highground you have up there. I'll be quite happy with the realists down here.
Some dude brought heroin into china. Heroin is a terribly destructive drug. It RUINS lives. It doesn't fucking matter if the dealer, the trafficker, or the user are the responsible ones or not. All i know is that they are destroying people's lives through their actions.
They're all worthless criminals. I wish the drug laws in the USA were a lot harsher than the silly little slap on the wrists that we take. Drugs are bad mmmk? That's a hilarious way to open a self-righteous post advocating authoritarian policies.
great post. Good insight into the problem. How's life in the clouds?
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On June 25 2009 05:09 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 04:49 CubEdIn wrote:On June 25 2009 04:09 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 04:05 Clasic wrote:On June 25 2009 04:00 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 03:31 Clasic wrote:On June 25 2009 03:28 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 03:25 GoodWill wrote:On June 25 2009 03:09 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 02:53 InfeSteD wrote:
[quote]
My best friend dissapeared for 2 years on me.. I would call his mom, friends, everyone and nobody could tell his whereabouts... one time he called me from the hospital saying he was dying he couldnt move any parts of his body... later on he told me he was addicted to heroin, slept in the streets, stole money, stole houses, lost everything he had.. and this friend of mine was a straight A student, never drank or smoke or did anything bad.. he was really responsible, etc (u get the point) he almost died because of that shit...
Im not saying death penalty is ok, but then again makes me think.. who do I rather have died.. the 1 person causing all this or a shitload of people because of 1 person? And this is the dealer's fault and not your friend's how? Are you suggesting that profiting from these addictive substances is fair so long as buyers are not coerced into it? As long as there's no coercion or fraud, yeah. *Sigh* You realize these people made one bad choice in their life and now they can't get off the drug, correct? The dealer is killing thousands, even millions of people and hes profiting from it. You don't think the murder/torture of thousands is completely alright? I suppose bartenders are murderers too. Yeah, I guess they are. Except Alcohol is legal. So is skydiving. I suppose companies that provide the planes for skydiving and let people pack their own chutes are murderers too. Let's demonize everyone who doesn't prevent someone else from doing something stupid! Your analogies suck, as does your way of "arguing". You throw in one sentence and completely disregard everything else someone is saying. This analogy suck because they allow people to pack their own chute. They don't provide broken chutes. Notice the difference? Ugh, the drug was meant to be analogous to the plane and the self-packed chute to the user's own actions. Show nested quote +Who is to say cocaine won't kill people? Does it pass quality tests? No, because it's illegal. I think I've already addressed this. Dealers should be as upfront and truthful about what they're selling as anyone else. Beyond that, if it's the user that wants to buy a gram of cocaine that he's been told has been cut with flour then that's his prerogative. Show nested quote +I know that you're trying to make a rather abstract argument by saying it shouldn't be punished because it is not, in fact harmful to anyone, but it is. It's much more harmful than alcohol and smoking combined. Smokers and drinkers mostly kill themselves, which is OK! Cocaine can EASILY lead to killing others, which is NOT OK. And yes, drunk drivers should be shot. I would rather punish people who actually harm others rather than those who you think could. [insert snide remark]
Oh I'm sorry, so you're not arguing that the punishment is harsh, you just want to make drugs legal and state-legislated. Well my bad then. Carry on. You should write a letter!
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Russian Federation134 Posts
maybe not a death penalty but like a life sentence?
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i think it's great because if they're aware of the consequences then it may deter alot of people, but then the people stupid enough to do it and get caught can be eliminated from the gene pool. May be harsh but who likes drug dealers really
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It's kinda harsh but drug dealers are bad people anyway so I don't think it's a big deal really. Not like this was some kid who got dragged into drugs. Looks like a major drug trafficking dude.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
IMO anyone stupid enough to sell mass quantities of drugs in an Asian country deserves the death sentence. those people contribute nothing to society except crime.
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The death penalty is too harsh, anyone arguing otherwise is wrong. But yeah he knew the risks, and he got punished according to Chinese law. Are your brains too weak to realize both are true? There is no argument between "it's too harsh" and "he got what was coming." I'm sure he knew he could die, but killing him doesn't achieve anything.
And it's every single persons responsibility to not do heroine, not the responsibility of the drug dealers to not traffic it so that people don't get addicted. There's always someone else to deal it, killing this guys is not going to end heroine addiction. I could get heroine if I wanted, but I don't. EZ
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8751 Posts
lol @ all the people saying the only way laws can be harsh is if people are ignorant of them
please don't run for congress
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On June 25 2009 05:01 Clasic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 04:58 Night[Mare wrote:
LOL at people thinking this is too harsh of a punishment, I wonder if you've lived the violence experimented due to this subjects. You really have no clue how much damage this people cause. And what, feed them with your taxes when you put them in jail????
imo i know death penalty is expensive, but this people never regenerate, why give them the chance to escape or keep running their business from the inside? Really, the world wont miss those scumbags. Fuck em They shouldn't even use the electric chair imo, just get a fucking gun and a bullet and shoot the man.. Doesn't require much money, and is fast and simple. Yeah really. These heroin users would kill people, raid houses, rob old women, do anything to get heroin, and WHY? because of the dealer and their poor choice of trying the drug.
I say they used one of those compressed air piston guns like in No Country for Old Men so we don't have to waste the bullet and we get less splatter.
The factors leading to an individual selling drugs are complex. Put anyone with the same set of genes and experiences set through what the nigerian's been through and invariably you'll have a drug dealer. Choice rhetoric annoys me for this reason. Humans are often retarded creatures that need rules and consequences to be controlled, but lets face it, the death penalty for this is extreme. I think the individual would be far more valuble alive and used for forced labor that teaches the man a skill set. Combined this with some mandatory education into the effects of drugs use and why selling drugs is wrong, and we may have a decent citizen.
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Obviously their laws are crazy and not logical at all. however its not surprising to see bad laws in asian and terroist(iraq/iran) countries. They don't know how to manage a society anyways.
However they all did lie (at least the girl) about the drugs. You boyfriend deals death-sentence amounts of drugs and its not noticeable?
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EPT
