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On June 25 2009 04:00 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 03:31 Clasic wrote:On June 25 2009 03:28 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 03:25 GoodWill wrote:On June 25 2009 03:09 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 02:53 InfeSteD wrote:On June 25 2009 02:44 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:On June 25 2009 02:39 hixhix wrote:On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? If your counter argument is like that, I have no interest to continue the discussion with you. Because you have no reasonable answer? Because you know he's right? On June 25 2009 02:43 floor exercise wrote:On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? Does this come in car analogy form as well? That's not even remotely close to the guns/car analogy. A DEATH sentence for drug trafficking? That is absolutely ridiculous. Prison time? Absolutely. Really large fines? Absolutely. Death? It's excessive. My best friend dissapeared for 2 years on me.. I would call his mom, friends, everyone and nobody could tell his whereabouts... one time he called me from the hospital saying he was dying he couldnt move any parts of his body... later on he told me he was addicted to heroin, slept in the streets, stole money, stole houses, lost everything he had.. and this friend of mine was a straight A student, never drank or smoke or did anything bad.. he was really responsible, etc (u get the point) he almost died because of that shit... Im not saying death penalty is ok, but then again makes me think.. who do I rather have died.. the 1 person causing all this or a shitload of people because of 1 person? And this is the dealer's fault and not your friend's how? Are you suggesting that profiting from these addictive substances is fair so long as buyers are not coerced into it? As long as there's no coercion or fraud, yeah. *Sigh* You realize these people made one bad choice in their life and now they can't get off the drug, correct? The dealer is killing thousands, even millions of people and hes profiting from it. You don't think the murder/torture of thousands is completely alright? I suppose bartenders are murderers too.
Alcohol kills several times the amount of people that all other illegal drugs in the world combined do. It should be illegal From a moral standpoint. From my standpoint it shouldn't be because it is a cultural custom and by now people should understand its' effects and stay away from frequent use. However I also think that there should be much more education about quantities of alcohol and how frequent use creates alcoholics, not amount.
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On June 25 2009 03:28 Spike wrote:
Meh, not even a big anti-drug guy but I don't think it's excessively harsh.
He knew the risk and he took them.
This.
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On June 25 2009 04:05 Clasic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 04:00 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 03:31 Clasic wrote:On June 25 2009 03:28 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 03:25 GoodWill wrote:On June 25 2009 03:09 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 02:53 InfeSteD wrote:On June 25 2009 02:44 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:On June 25 2009 02:39 hixhix wrote:On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:
[quote]
so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? If your counter argument is like that, I have no interest to continue the discussion with you. Because you have no reasonable answer? Because you know he's right? On June 25 2009 02:43 floor exercise wrote:On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:
[quote]
so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? Does this come in car analogy form as well? That's not even remotely close to the guns/car analogy. A DEATH sentence for drug trafficking? That is absolutely ridiculous. Prison time? Absolutely. Really large fines? Absolutely. Death? It's excessive. My best friend dissapeared for 2 years on me.. I would call his mom, friends, everyone and nobody could tell his whereabouts... one time he called me from the hospital saying he was dying he couldnt move any parts of his body... later on he told me he was addicted to heroin, slept in the streets, stole money, stole houses, lost everything he had.. and this friend of mine was a straight A student, never drank or smoke or did anything bad.. he was really responsible, etc (u get the point) he almost died because of that shit... Im not saying death penalty is ok, but then again makes me think.. who do I rather have died.. the 1 person causing all this or a shitload of people because of 1 person? And this is the dealer's fault and not your friend's how? Are you suggesting that profiting from these addictive substances is fair so long as buyers are not coerced into it? As long as there's no coercion or fraud, yeah. *Sigh* You realize these people made one bad choice in their life and now they can't get off the drug, correct? The dealer is killing thousands, even millions of people and hes profiting from it. You don't think the murder/torture of thousands is completely alright? I suppose bartenders are murderers too. Yeah, I guess they are. Except Alcohol is legal.
So is skydiving. I suppose companies that provide the planes for skydiving and let people pack their own chutes are murderers too.
Let's demonize everyone who doesn't prevent someone else from doing something stupid!
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Great opportunity to china bash! I don't think it's excessive at all, these people knew about the consequences of trafficking drugs into Asian countries and they know that they are potentially harming thousands of people for their own benefit/profit. You know the rule is right there, if you still go ahead and do it then you get what's coming, simple.
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On June 25 2009 04:01 MoRe_mInErAls wrote:
That drug trafficker facilitated the slow, painful, death of hundreds of people. He alienated victims from their families and friends
no, the person who willingly bought the drugs on their own free will did that. The drug dealer was just the place to get them at. Just like smoking, you choose to smoke, you choose to ruin your own life. Tobacco companies are not held responsible for the people they kill, because in the end, it's the users choice. Stop saying that drug dealers are killing people, because thats wrong. There is free choice in this world, and unless the drug dealer has a gun to your head demanding you shoot up the heroine, it's no ones fault but your own.
2nd, since when is it ok for someone else to decide whether or not you live or die. That should not be anyones choice but your own. I think it's disgusting that those countries have such low regard for human life, that they are willing to kill people over drug crimes. There is without a doubt, much better ways to deal with those things, yet it seems perfectly fine to decide another mans fate, and choose to end his life, because he sold drugs. Thats pretty fucked up. 25 years in jail? SURE! but to decide that he no longer can live (who's the boss here who has the right to make those decisions) is pretty damn primitive if you ask me.
lastly hixhix stop assuming that everyone here is blind to how 3rd world countries operate. Most people here are very intelligent concerning world events and knowledge in general. You act as if you are lecturing a 3rd grade class on the subject, like were all soo ignorant about whats going on in the world. The country is not even considered 3rd world, yet you are rattling off as if poverty is taking thousands of lives everyday. Singapore is not the only place in the world where people struggle to eat everyday. This happens EVERYWHERE. I live in a fair sized city in Canada, and we have tons of people that cannot afford to both eat and pay bills. Not to mention the massive amount of homeless people in every city you goto. These problems are not only seen in 3rd world countries, and drugs affect people the sameway. There is no difference between someone struggling to stay alive on the streets, putting a needle into his arm, and someone in singapore trying to survive also putting a needle in his arm. If you are soo closed minded that you wont take arguments then I suggest stop posting in this thread. It's not up to you to decide which arguments are ok , and which are "stupid" . Also, not knowing english well enough is also not an excuse to ignore someones argument. If you cannot speak english properly, then you cannot debate properly, and that's your fault, not the guy who made a VALID arguement (that you ignored without response)
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Canada9720 Posts
not to mention that assuming the moral validity of alcohol's distribution because it's legal to drink is an argument cop-out
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
On June 25 2009 04:02 zizou21 wrote:
This.
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so you can't blame the drug dealer? that is so stupid why do you think they are making examples out of these people?
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On June 25 2009 03:43 dinmsab wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 02:59 hixhix wrote:
People who think death penalty is too excessive for drug trafficking, you obviously have no idea how serious this is. Do some research on Google if you have no real life experience. In short, one drug dealer makes hundred thousands, millions of dollars by killing hundred or thousands of people directly or indirectly in very short time, causing many problems after others, especially in 3rd world countries.
p/s: don't compare this with something stupid like selling cigarette. I love how you specifically point out that drugs cause more problems in 3rd world countries as if people in developed countries are immune to drugs. Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 02:33 hixhix wrote:
The other recent incident was also about a Vietnamese - Australian getting caught in Singapore. Australian government, the drug drealer's school, friend... etc made it really big asking SIngapore to not kill that guy. But no, he broke the law, he deserved death penalty. If that guy wasn't caught, he would be on the beach, enjoying sunshine, cold beer and pussies while hundreds of addicts, their families and so on would be struggling every day to survive, yes, I mean survive (poor people in 3rd world country still have to worry about their food every day). ..and btw, Singapore isn't a third world country, not to mention the people who live there are FAR from starving. Get your facts right.
First, I never said people in the developed countries are immune to drugs. I said in the third world countries where the population is huge, the education level is low and there are too many fucked up shit everyday, drugs lead to serious serious serious consequences that many people here living there entire life in the bubble will never know. If you cant see how drugs cause more problems in third world countries, you aren't capable of following the discussion here.
Second, I never said Singapore was a third world country or people there were starving, what the hell are you talking about.
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On June 25 2009 03:25 GoodWill wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 03:09 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 02:53 InfeSteD wrote:On June 25 2009 02:44 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:On June 25 2009 02:39 hixhix wrote:On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? If your counter argument is like that, I have no interest to continue the discussion with you. Because you have no reasonable answer? Because you know he's right? On June 25 2009 02:43 floor exercise wrote:On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? Does this come in car analogy form as well? That's not even remotely close to the guns/car analogy. A DEATH sentence for drug trafficking? That is absolutely ridiculous. Prison time? Absolutely. Really large fines? Absolutely. Death? It's excessive. My best friend dissapeared for 2 years on me.. I would call his mom, friends, everyone and nobody could tell his whereabouts... one time he called me from the hospital saying he was dying he couldnt move any parts of his body... later on he told me he was addicted to heroin, slept in the streets, stole money, stole houses, lost everything he had.. and this friend of mine was a straight A student, never drank or smoke or did anything bad.. he was really responsible, etc (u get the point) he almost died because of that shit... Im not saying death penalty is ok, but then again makes me think.. who do I rather have died.. the 1 person causing all this or a shitload of people because of 1 person? And this is the dealer's fault and not your friend's how? Are you suggesting that profiting from these addictive substances is fair so long as buyers are not coerced into it?
u mean like...the tobacco and alcohol industries? ..oh wait
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POWNED by the chinese justice system much?
Oh well cant say i feel sorry for him and to be frank im kinda happy he got arrested for drug traficking in China instead of say Europe.
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We need to change our way of looking at the situation when it comes to drugs, drug dealers, and those who buy the drugs in question. This law is fucking bad.
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On June 25 2009 03:02 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 02:48 hixhix wrote:On June 25 2009 02:44 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:On June 25 2009 02:39 hixhix wrote:On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? If your counter argument is like that, I have no interest to continue the discussion with you. Because you have no reasonable answer? Because you know he's right? None of that. It's because of the obvious fact that English is not my native language and I'm not a lawyer so I cant make my words 100% correct. If you are mature enough you get the point. Instead, if you try to play the devil's advocate picking one extremely irrelevant example, I just let it go. "Never discuss with an idiot; first he brings you down to his level, then he beats you with experience" It's not an "extremely irrelevant example." It is reductio ad absurdum and it is a perfectly valid argument.
It's actually not a reductio ad absurdum. I wonder what he's trying to prove with his example though, since I don't believe that it is a valid counterpoint.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
On June 25 2009 04:09 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 04:05 Clasic wrote:On June 25 2009 04:00 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 03:31 Clasic wrote:On June 25 2009 03:28 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 03:25 GoodWill wrote:On June 25 2009 03:09 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 02:53 InfeSteD wrote:On June 25 2009 02:44 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:On June 25 2009 02:39 hixhix wrote:
[quote]
If your counter argument is like that, I have no interest to continue the discussion with you. Because you have no reasonable answer? Because you know he's right? On June 25 2009 02:43 floor exercise wrote:
[quote]
Does this come in car analogy form as well? That's not even remotely close to the guns/car analogy. A DEATH sentence for drug trafficking? That is absolutely ridiculous. Prison time? Absolutely. Really large fines? Absolutely. Death? It's excessive. My best friend dissapeared for 2 years on me.. I would call his mom, friends, everyone and nobody could tell his whereabouts... one time he called me from the hospital saying he was dying he couldnt move any parts of his body... later on he told me he was addicted to heroin, slept in the streets, stole money, stole houses, lost everything he had.. and this friend of mine was a straight A student, never drank or smoke or did anything bad.. he was really responsible, etc (u get the point) he almost died because of that shit... Im not saying death penalty is ok, but then again makes me think.. who do I rather have died.. the 1 person causing all this or a shitload of people because of 1 person? And this is the dealer's fault and not your friend's how? Are you suggesting that profiting from these addictive substances is fair so long as buyers are not coerced into it? As long as there's no coercion or fraud, yeah. *Sigh* You realize these people made one bad choice in their life and now they can't get off the drug, correct? The dealer is killing thousands, even millions of people and hes profiting from it. You don't think the murder/torture of thousands is completely alright? I suppose bartenders are murderers too. Yeah, I guess they are. Except Alcohol is legal. So is skydiving. I suppose companies that provide the planes for skydiving and let people pack their own chutes are murderers too. Let's demonize everyone who doesn't prevent someone else from doing something stupid!
you don't get the point. its legal, they can do it. heroin in most country's is not, don't do it.
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Move to China they said.
Sell drugs they said.
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On June 25 2009 04:36 Clasic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 04:09 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 04:05 Clasic wrote:On June 25 2009 04:00 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 03:31 Clasic wrote:On June 25 2009 03:28 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 03:25 GoodWill wrote:On June 25 2009 03:09 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 02:53 InfeSteD wrote:On June 25 2009 02:44 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:
[quote]
Because you have no reasonable answer? Because you know he's right?
[quote]
That's not even remotely close to the guns/car analogy. A DEATH sentence for drug trafficking? That is absolutely ridiculous. Prison time? Absolutely. Really large fines? Absolutely. Death? It's excessive. My best friend dissapeared for 2 years on me.. I would call his mom, friends, everyone and nobody could tell his whereabouts... one time he called me from the hospital saying he was dying he couldnt move any parts of his body... later on he told me he was addicted to heroin, slept in the streets, stole money, stole houses, lost everything he had.. and this friend of mine was a straight A student, never drank or smoke or did anything bad.. he was really responsible, etc (u get the point) he almost died because of that shit... Im not saying death penalty is ok, but then again makes me think.. who do I rather have died.. the 1 person causing all this or a shitload of people because of 1 person? And this is the dealer's fault and not your friend's how? Are you suggesting that profiting from these addictive substances is fair so long as buyers are not coerced into it? As long as there's no coercion or fraud, yeah. *Sigh* You realize these people made one bad choice in their life and now they can't get off the drug, correct? The dealer is killing thousands, even millions of people and hes profiting from it. You don't think the murder/torture of thousands is completely alright? I suppose bartenders are murderers too. Yeah, I guess they are. Except Alcohol is legal. So is skydiving. I suppose companies that provide the planes for skydiving and let people pack their own chutes are murderers too. Let's demonize everyone who doesn't prevent someone else from doing something stupid! you don't get the point. its legal, they can do it. heroin in most country's is not, don't do it.
So heroin is bad and its providers murderers because it is illegal?
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Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
Also : I can't amagine how much the price of any sort of drug is in China lol. $400 a gram in Texas, I think, last time I asked a drug dealer. So I assume in China it will be like, $1000/g?
Edit:
On June 25 2009 04:41 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 04:36 Clasic wrote:On June 25 2009 04:09 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 04:05 Clasic wrote:On June 25 2009 04:00 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 03:31 Clasic wrote:On June 25 2009 03:28 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 03:25 GoodWill wrote:On June 25 2009 03:09 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 02:53 InfeSteD wrote:
[quote]
My best friend dissapeared for 2 years on me.. I would call his mom, friends, everyone and nobody could tell his whereabouts... one time he called me from the hospital saying he was dying he couldnt move any parts of his body... later on he told me he was addicted to heroin, slept in the streets, stole money, stole houses, lost everything he had.. and this friend of mine was a straight A student, never drank or smoke or did anything bad.. he was really responsible, etc (u get the point) he almost died because of that shit...
Im not saying death penalty is ok, but then again makes me think.. who do I rather have died.. the 1 person causing all this or a shitload of people because of 1 person? And this is the dealer's fault and not your friend's how? Are you suggesting that profiting from these addictive substances is fair so long as buyers are not coerced into it? As long as there's no coercion or fraud, yeah. *Sigh* You realize these people made one bad choice in their life and now they can't get off the drug, correct? The dealer is killing thousands, even millions of people and hes profiting from it. You don't think the murder/torture of thousands is completely alright? I suppose bartenders are murderers too. Yeah, I guess they are. Except Alcohol is legal. So is skydiving. I suppose companies that provide the planes for skydiving and let people pack their own chutes are murderers too. Let's demonize everyone who doesn't prevent someone else from doing something stupid! you don't get the point. its legal, they can do it. heroin in most country's is not, don't do it. So heroin is bad and its providers murderers because it is illegal?
I see were you are going with this. I only approve of these " alcohol dealers " because its legal, and if its legal that doesn't mean I have to like it. But look at it this way : Sure, alcohol kills more people than most of all illegal-drugs all together, but if their were as much Heroin users as alcohol users in the U.S, they would die WAY faster. Drinking alcohol isn't a guaranteed death, but constant abuse of heroin will probably result in a death.
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On June 25 2009 04:36 Clasic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 04:09 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 04:05 Clasic wrote:On June 25 2009 04:00 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 03:31 Clasic wrote:On June 25 2009 03:28 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 03:25 GoodWill wrote:On June 25 2009 03:09 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 02:53 InfeSteD wrote:On June 25 2009 02:44 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:
[quote]
Because you have no reasonable answer? Because you know he's right?
[quote]
That's not even remotely close to the guns/car analogy. A DEATH sentence for drug trafficking? That is absolutely ridiculous. Prison time? Absolutely. Really large fines? Absolutely. Death? It's excessive. My best friend dissapeared for 2 years on me.. I would call his mom, friends, everyone and nobody could tell his whereabouts... one time he called me from the hospital saying he was dying he couldnt move any parts of his body... later on he told me he was addicted to heroin, slept in the streets, stole money, stole houses, lost everything he had.. and this friend of mine was a straight A student, never drank or smoke or did anything bad.. he was really responsible, etc (u get the point) he almost died because of that shit... Im not saying death penalty is ok, but then again makes me think.. who do I rather have died.. the 1 person causing all this or a shitload of people because of 1 person? And this is the dealer's fault and not your friend's how? Are you suggesting that profiting from these addictive substances is fair so long as buyers are not coerced into it? As long as there's no coercion or fraud, yeah. *Sigh* You realize these people made one bad choice in their life and now they can't get off the drug, correct? The dealer is killing thousands, even millions of people and hes profiting from it. You don't think the murder/torture of thousands is completely alright? I suppose bartenders are murderers too. Yeah, I guess they are. Except Alcohol is legal. So is skydiving. I suppose companies that provide the planes for skydiving and let people pack their own chutes are murderers too. Let's demonize everyone who doesn't prevent someone else from doing something stupid! you don't get the point. its legal, they can do it. heroin in most country's is not, don't do it.
I think the real issue here is that saying the dealer is any less to blame than the buyer just doesn't work. Just about any buyer is going to know how fucked up you can get from Heroin and yet he still made the choice to do it.
There are several obviously bad choices in life that have very detrimental effects to your health. Taking heroin is one, playing on a freeway is another. A lot of the most detrimental things in life however are also the easiest to avoid.
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On June 25 2009 02:01 Integra wrote:
It's China, they kill people there for all kinds of reasons.
LOL. thats like saying muslims get their hands chopped off for stealing.
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wow there's a lot of self righteous people in this thread. Hope you can see us little people from that moral highground you have up there. I'll be quite happy with the realists down here.
Some dude brought heroin into china. Heroin is a terribly destructive drug. It RUINS lives. It doesn't fucking matter if the dealer, the trafficker, or the user are the responsible ones or not. All i know is that they are destroying people's lives through their actions.
They're all worthless criminals. I wish the drug laws in the USA were a lot harsher than the silly little slap on the wrists that we take. Drugs are bad mmmk?
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