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A Nigerian man charged with drug trafficking in Dongguan was found guilty and sentenced to death yesterday, reports today's Dongguan Times.
Both Osonwa Okey Noberts and his girlfriend, Zhang Dongxiang, received the death penalty for selling heroin to Chinese drug dealers, who were also on trial yesterday. According to China's criminal law, trafficking of more than 50 grams of heroin can receive death penalty; police established that Noberts and Zhang had sold 5,978.1 grams and 5,091.1 grams, respectively.
Zhang confessed that Noberts had brought the drugs into China to supply lower-tier drug dealers. According to the report, this is the first case in Dongguan in which a foreigner was sentenced to death.
The paper included a few snippets of the courtroom scene, including Noberts's refusal to sign the sentencing document, Zhang's protests that she didn't know about the drugs at all, and her mother's reaction to the verdict:
Scene 2: Crying
Judge: (bangs the gavel forcefully): Court adjourned.
(At this point, the gallery is awash in tears.)
Zhang Dongxiang: (Suddenly turns around and shouts toward the gallery) Mom!
Mother: (through thick tears): Dongxiang.
(Zhang Dongxiang grips the railing with her manacled hands. She cries loudly, unwilling to leave.)
Mother: Do as they say.
(Zhang Dongxiang is led away by the bailiffs.)
Source
Little harsh, no? especially considering that dongguan is like the prostitution capital of the world and is backed by the gov. -_-;
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wow, that is really really harsh imo. 
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I don't think it's very harsh at all.
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How do they know he's not actually a Nigerian prince that can give them 25 million dollars if they only transfer $20,000 as an insurance so the account isn't shut down?
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Yeah it's harsh but not at all surprising considering it's China.
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It's China, they kill people there for all kinds of reasons.
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On June 25 2009 01:56 ghostWriter wrote:
How do they know he's not actually a Nigerian prince that can give them 25 million dollars if they only transfer $20,000 as an insurance so the account isn't shut down?
rofl
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Hey.. He knew the risk when he got into that business. I can't feel bad for him
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On June 25 2009 02:01 Integra wrote:
It's China, they kill people there for all kinds of reasons.
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Just in case some people are wondering why the Nigerian government isn't doing anything, it's because they can't.
There was a similar case in Canada of a Vietnamese-Canadian guy smuggling drugs into Singapore or some South East Asian country and he was also killed by the death penalty there, even though Canada pleaded (barely..) for his release.
The other country's response was something like, "We respect your country's laws so please respect ours" (Paraphrasing)
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On June 25 2009 01:55 FragKrag wrote:
I don't think it's very harsh at all.
So........if the death penalty isn't very harsh at all...then in your mind.....what is??
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It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-
Obviously most of you living in a little bubble and know nothing about 3rd world countries where the population is huge, the level of education is so low and there are lots of fucked up shits every day. That's why the law must be so strict for this kind of crime. Heroin not only fucks up the addicts but also their families and people around. In Vietnam (and other 3rd world countries I guess), stories like the addicts killing people for little money (like 2$, yes, two US dollars) are on daily news. One drug dealer leads to many serious consequences and they deserve death penalty. I remember in Singapore's airport, they say it out loud in the speaker that, if you cross this door and you have .... grams of drugs, you'll face death penalty, this is the last chance to throw away any drug you have. Still, there are many thickhead drug dealers who tried their lucks and then whined about how strict the law was when they got caught.
The law is clear, you cross the line you're punished.
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On June 25 2009 02:12 Alizee- wrote:So........if the death penalty isn't very harsh at all...then in your mind.....what is??
Making them zombies?
But seriously, i cant really feel satisfied when a life is going to be extinguished. I have always tried to stay aware that every life has a value to try and avoid becoming desensitized like so many other, but to be honest i cant really feel any empathy for drug dealers.
I feel sorry that someone has to die, but i think they deserve it.
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why are they all wearing basketball uniforms in the pic?
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The real solution is legalization.
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On June 25 2009 02:21 Ideas wrote:
why are they all wearing basketball uniforms in the pic?
Black guy is an insta-pick for a chinese prison basketball team
This happens all over asia by the way for a lot less than the 20+ lbs (11000 grams in the story) that these two smuggled in. A girl from London got caught in Laos with 1.5 lbs and was sentenced to death, then got the sentence reduced to life in prison because she got pregnant and they don't execute pregnant women.
It's a shame when it's African women being forced to be drug mules and things like that. When people willingly do it? Not so much sympathy
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On June 25 2009 02:12 Alizee- wrote:So........if the death penalty isn't very harsh at all...then in your mind.....what is??
Torture someone SLOWLY over a period of 3 years to eventual death is harsh.
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it's the risk you take when smuggeling drugs into [insert asian country]
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On June 25 2009 02:06 jjun212 wrote:
Just in case some people are wondering why the Nigerian government isn't doing anything, it's because they can't.
There was a similar case in Canada of a Vietnamese-Canadian guy smuggling drugs into Singapore or some South East Asian country and he was also killed by the death penalty there, even though Canada pleaded (barely..) for his release.
The other country's response was something like, "We respect your country's laws so please respect ours" (Paraphrasing)
It was the Vietnamese-Canadian woman and her mother trying to hide drug in some photo frame and they were caught in Vietnam. The daughter was executed but not her mother (70+) due to her age. Canadian goverment tried to save them but Vietnamese said no, it's our law, no exception.
The other recent incident was also about a Vietnamese - Australian getting caught in Singapore. Australian government, the drug drealer's school, friend... etc made it really big asking SIngapore to not kill that guy. But no, he broke the law, he deserved death penalty. If that guy wasn't caught, he would be on the beach, enjoying sunshine, cold beer and pussies while hundreds of addicts, their families and so on would be struggling every day to survive, yes, I mean survive (poor people in 3rd world country still have to worry about their food every day).
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9933 Posts
On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-.
so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right?
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In the good old days of China when around 10.000 people were executed each year the executions became so expensive that the government collected a bullet fee (子弹费) from the relatives of the condemned.
Executing 10.000 people with firearms is expensive in the long run man!
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On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right?
If your counter argument is like that, I have no interest to continue the discussion with you.
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Considering the horrors of drug trafficking, I feel that this punishment is appropriate. A life sentence would also be appropriate, since it effectively removes perpetrators from society.
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On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right?
Does this come in car analogy form as well?
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On June 25 2009 02:39 hixhix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? If your counter argument is like that, I have no interest to continue the discussion with you.
Because you have no reasonable answer? Because you know he's right?
On June 25 2009 02:43 floor exercise wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? Does this come in car analogy form as well?
That's not even remotely close to the guns/car analogy. A DEATH sentence for drug trafficking? That is absolutely ridiculous. Prison time? Absolutely. Really large fines? Absolutely. Death? It's excessive.
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On June 25 2009 02:44 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 02:39 hixhix wrote:On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? If your counter argument is like that, I have no interest to continue the discussion with you. Because you have no reasonable answer? Because you know he's right?
None of that. It's because of the obvious fact that English is not my native language and I'm not a lawyer so I cant make my words 100% correct. If you are mature enough you get the point. Instead, if you try to play the devil's advocate picking one extremely irrelevant example, I just let it go. "Never discuss with an idiot; first he brings you down to his level, then he beats you with experience"
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On June 25 2009 02:44 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 02:39 hixhix wrote:On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? If your counter argument is like that, I have no interest to continue the discussion with you. Because you have no reasonable answer? Because you know he's right? Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 02:43 floor exercise wrote:On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? Does this come in car analogy form as well? That's not even remotely close to the guns/car analogy. A DEATH sentence for drug trafficking? That is absolutely ridiculous. Prison time? Absolutely. Really large fines? Absolutely. Death? It's excessive.
Its obvious that fucking up someones life (even though its their choice for taking the drug "not really if they were never able to buy it in the first place") their families, friends, girlfriends, the list goes on... does not compare to what intrigue said..
come on now.. seriously? its not even a reasonable question...
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On June 25 2009 02:44 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 02:39 hixhix wrote:On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? If your counter argument is like that, I have no interest to continue the discussion with you. Because you have no reasonable answer? Because you know he's right? Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 02:43 floor exercise wrote:On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? Does this come in car analogy form as well? That's not even remotely close to the guns/car analogy. A DEATH sentence for drug trafficking? That is absolutely ridiculous. Prison time? Absolutely. Really large fines? Absolutely. Death? It's excessive.
Hmmm yes trafficking 20+ lbs of heroin vs swearing, these things are highly comparable in severity, what an excellent debate point.
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On June 25 2009 02:44 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 02:39 hixhix wrote:On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? If your counter argument is like that, I have no interest to continue the discussion with you. Because you have no reasonable answer? Because you know he's right? Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 02:43 floor exercise wrote:On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? Does this come in car analogy form as well? That's not even remotely close to the guns/car analogy. A DEATH sentence for drug trafficking? That is absolutely ridiculous. Prison time? Absolutely. Really large fines? Absolutely. Death? It's excessive.
My best friend dissapeared for 2 years on me.. I would call his mom, friends, everyone and nobody could tell his whereabouts... one time he called me from the hospital saying he was dying he couldnt move any parts of his body... later on he told me he was addicted to heroin, slept in the streets, stole money, stole houses, lost everything he had.. and this friend of mine was a straight A student, never drank or smoke or did anything bad.. he was really responsible, etc (u get the point) he almost died because of that shit...
Im not saying death penalty is ok, but then again makes me think.. who do I rather have died.. the 1 person causing all this or a shitload of people because of 1 person?
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1. Drug traffickers profit from the addictions and degradation of many people.
2. Who the fuck is dumb enough to smuggle drugs into asian countries?
Conclusion:
Fuck 'em
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On June 25 2009 02:53 InfeSteD wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 02:44 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:On June 25 2009 02:39 hixhix wrote:On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? If your counter argument is like that, I have no interest to continue the discussion with you. Because you have no reasonable answer? Because you know he's right? On June 25 2009 02:43 floor exercise wrote:On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? Does this come in car analogy form as well? That's not even remotely close to the guns/car analogy. A DEATH sentence for drug trafficking? That is absolutely ridiculous. Prison time? Absolutely. Really large fines? Absolutely. Death? It's excessive. My best friend dissapeared for 2 years on me.. I would call his mom, friends, everyone and nobody could tell his whereabouts... one time he called me from the hospital saying he was dying he couldnt move any parts of his body... later on he told me he was addicted to heroin, slept in the streets, stole money, stole houses, lost everything he had.. and this friend of mine was a straight A student, never drank or smoke or did anything bad.. he was really responsible, etc (u get the point) he almost died because of that shit... Im not saying death penalty is ok, but then again makes me think.. who do I rather have died.. the 1 person causing all this or a shitload of people because of 1 person?
That's also your best friends fault.
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People who think death penalty is too excessive for drug trafficking, you obviously have no idea how serious this is. Do some research on Google if you have no real life experience. In short, one drug dealer makes hundred thousands, millions of dollars by killing hundred or thousands of people directly or indirectly in very short time, causing many problems after others, especially in 3rd world countries.
p/s: don't compare this with something stupid like selling cigarette.
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I know it is... but then again thats just one friend.. imagine how many thousands of friends cause pain in friends/families lives because of drug dealers... Im just trying to give a comparison on how dumb it was to compare swearing to (what I said above)
If you read my first post in this thread, I thought it s too harsh imo!
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On June 25 2009 02:48 hixhix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 02:44 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:On June 25 2009 02:39 hixhix wrote:On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? If your counter argument is like that, I have no interest to continue the discussion with you. Because you have no reasonable answer? Because you know he's right? None of that. It's because of the obvious fact that English is not my native language and I'm not a lawyer so I cant make my words 100% correct. If you are mature enough you get the point. Instead, if you try to play the devil's advocate picking one extremely irrelevant example, I just let it go. "Never discuss with an idiot; first he brings you down to his level, then he beats you with experience"
It's not an "extremely irrelevant example." It is reductio ad absurdum and it is a perfectly valid argument.
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On June 25 2009 02:48 hixhix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 02:44 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:On June 25 2009 02:39 hixhix wrote:On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? If your counter argument is like that, I have no interest to continue the discussion with you. Because you have no reasonable answer? Because you know he's right? None of that. It's because of the obvious fact that English is not my native language and I'm not a lawyer so I cant make my words 100% correct. If you are mature enough you get the point. Instead, if you try to play the devil's advocate picking one extremely irrelevant example, I just let it go. "Never discuss with an idiot; first he brings you down to his level, then he beats you with experience"
i think the reason he made that extreme analogy was to make the point that he thinks the consequences do not fit the crime. So the basic disagreement between the two of you is not so much that knowing the law and then breaking it is your own fault but more along the lines of do you think the crime fit the punishment. Also, pertaining to the two reporters going to NK, it is now being speculated that perhaps they were "sold" to North Korea. In both these cases, the main issue people have is with if the punishment fit the crime. Obviously the country have have laws but if the laws are considered to be unjust then it's fair and even expected of people to be outraged by it. The argument that, this country has this law, you know, if you fuck up, it's your fault, is moot if the law itself is unjust. Sure, one can say, you knew the dangers, why'd you do it but that leaves out the human element.
http://kristof.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/22/laura-ling-euna-lee-and-north-korea/
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Something else people isnt realizing is that drug dealers are also murderers in alot of cases... they not only kill ppl with their drug but with their own hands as well.. one of my friends was murdered this year by a drug dealer
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On June 25 2009 02:53 InfeSteD wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 02:44 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:On June 25 2009 02:39 hixhix wrote:On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? If your counter argument is like that, I have no interest to continue the discussion with you. Because you have no reasonable answer? Because you know he's right? On June 25 2009 02:43 floor exercise wrote:On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? Does this come in car analogy form as well? That's not even remotely close to the guns/car analogy. A DEATH sentence for drug trafficking? That is absolutely ridiculous. Prison time? Absolutely. Really large fines? Absolutely. Death? It's excessive. My best friend dissapeared for 2 years on me.. I would call his mom, friends, everyone and nobody could tell his whereabouts... one time he called me from the hospital saying he was dying he couldnt move any parts of his body... later on he told me he was addicted to heroin, slept in the streets, stole money, stole houses, lost everything he had.. and this friend of mine was a straight A student, never drank or smoke or did anything bad.. he was really responsible, etc (u get the point) he almost died because of that shit... Im not saying death penalty is ok, but then again makes me think.. who do I rather have died.. the 1 person causing all this or a shitload of people because of 1 person?
And this is the dealer's fault and not your friend's how?
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Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
On June 25 2009 02:02 Eniram wrote:
Hey.. He knew the risk when he got into that business. I can't feel bad for him
Yeah I agree Marine, like, its fucking China, they will kill you for a little bit of marijuana, so he already knows Heroin is going to fuck him over even more.
I also don't feel sorry for him either, if he brings drugs into a country and ruins lives he deserves it. By killing him you may save thousands of people who made a bad choice in their life and are now addicted to this drug we call " Heroin. "
P.S Eniram, if your Eniram(OD) thats pretty ironic because your team stands for over dose lol.
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On June 25 2009 03:09 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 02:53 InfeSteD wrote:On June 25 2009 02:44 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:On June 25 2009 02:39 hixhix wrote:On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? If your counter argument is like that, I have no interest to continue the discussion with you. Because you have no reasonable answer? Because you know he's right? On June 25 2009 02:43 floor exercise wrote:On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? Does this come in car analogy form as well? That's not even remotely close to the guns/car analogy. A DEATH sentence for drug trafficking? That is absolutely ridiculous. Prison time? Absolutely. Really large fines? Absolutely. Death? It's excessive. My best friend dissapeared for 2 years on me.. I would call his mom, friends, everyone and nobody could tell his whereabouts... one time he called me from the hospital saying he was dying he couldnt move any parts of his body... later on he told me he was addicted to heroin, slept in the streets, stole money, stole houses, lost everything he had.. and this friend of mine was a straight A student, never drank or smoke or did anything bad.. he was really responsible, etc (u get the point) he almost died because of that shit... Im not saying death penalty is ok, but then again makes me think.. who do I rather have died.. the 1 person causing all this or a shitload of people because of 1 person? And this is the dealer's fault and not your friend's how?
Are you suggesting that profiting from these addictive substances is fair so long as buyers are not coerced into it?
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Meh, not even a big anti-drug guy but I don't think it's excessively harsh.
He knew the risk and he took them.
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On June 25 2009 03:25 GoodWill wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 03:09 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 02:53 InfeSteD wrote:On June 25 2009 02:44 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:On June 25 2009 02:39 hixhix wrote:On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? If your counter argument is like that, I have no interest to continue the discussion with you. Because you have no reasonable answer? Because you know he's right? On June 25 2009 02:43 floor exercise wrote:On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? Does this come in car analogy form as well? That's not even remotely close to the guns/car analogy. A DEATH sentence for drug trafficking? That is absolutely ridiculous. Prison time? Absolutely. Really large fines? Absolutely. Death? It's excessive. My best friend dissapeared for 2 years on me.. I would call his mom, friends, everyone and nobody could tell his whereabouts... one time he called me from the hospital saying he was dying he couldnt move any parts of his body... later on he told me he was addicted to heroin, slept in the streets, stole money, stole houses, lost everything he had.. and this friend of mine was a straight A student, never drank or smoke or did anything bad.. he was really responsible, etc (u get the point) he almost died because of that shit... Im not saying death penalty is ok, but then again makes me think.. who do I rather have died.. the 1 person causing all this or a shitload of people because of 1 person? And this is the dealer's fault and not your friend's how? Are you suggesting that profiting from these addictive substances is fair so long as buyers are not coerced into it?
As long as there's no coercion or fraud, yeah.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
On June 25 2009 03:28 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 03:25 GoodWill wrote:On June 25 2009 03:09 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 02:53 InfeSteD wrote:On June 25 2009 02:44 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:On June 25 2009 02:39 hixhix wrote:On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? If your counter argument is like that, I have no interest to continue the discussion with you. Because you have no reasonable answer? Because you know he's right? On June 25 2009 02:43 floor exercise wrote:On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? Does this come in car analogy form as well? That's not even remotely close to the guns/car analogy. A DEATH sentence for drug trafficking? That is absolutely ridiculous. Prison time? Absolutely. Really large fines? Absolutely. Death? It's excessive. My best friend dissapeared for 2 years on me.. I would call his mom, friends, everyone and nobody could tell his whereabouts... one time he called me from the hospital saying he was dying he couldnt move any parts of his body... later on he told me he was addicted to heroin, slept in the streets, stole money, stole houses, lost everything he had.. and this friend of mine was a straight A student, never drank or smoke or did anything bad.. he was really responsible, etc (u get the point) he almost died because of that shit... Im not saying death penalty is ok, but then again makes me think.. who do I rather have died.. the 1 person causing all this or a shitload of people because of 1 person? And this is the dealer's fault and not your friend's how? Are you suggesting that profiting from these addictive substances is fair so long as buyers are not coerced into it? As long as there's no coercion or fraud, yeah.
*Sigh* You realize these people made one bad choice in their life and now they can't get off the drug, correct? The dealer is killing thousands, even millions of people and hes profiting from it. You don't think the murder/torture of thousands is completely alright?
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On June 25 2009 02:44 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 02:39 hixhix wrote:On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? If your counter argument is like that, I have no interest to continue the discussion with you. Because you have no reasonable answer? Because you know he's right? Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 02:43 floor exercise wrote:On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? Does this come in car analogy form as well? That's not even remotely close to the guns/car analogy. A DEATH sentence for drug trafficking? That is absolutely ridiculous. Prison time? Absolutely. Really large fines? Absolutely. Death? It's excessive.
Haha. 5 kilos of coke can ruin a lot of lives. And I'm willing to bet it wasn't his FIRST TIME SELLING DRUGS. Excessive? No. Let the fucker fry. Selling drugs does not equal swearing loudly, because the chances of people dying over your swearing are next to zero, so no. That argument isn't valid. And even if you want to push it that far, then yes, you should STILL obey the fucking law or fry. You don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
Fry them all. FRY THEM!
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Damnit Smooky, you could have let him live!
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On June 25 2009 02:59 hixhix wrote:
People who think death penalty is too excessive for drug trafficking, you obviously have no idea how serious this is. Do some research on Google if you have no real life experience. In short, one drug dealer makes hundred thousands, millions of dollars by killing hundred or thousands of people directly or indirectly in very short time, causing many problems after others, especially in 3rd world countries.
p/s: don't compare this with something stupid like selling cigarette.
I love how you specifically point out that drugs cause more problems in 3rd world countries as if people in developed countries are immune to drugs.
On June 25 2009 02:33 hixhix wrote:
The other recent incident was also about a Vietnamese - Australian getting caught in Singapore. Australian government, the drug drealer's school, friend... etc made it really big asking SIngapore to not kill that guy. But no, he broke the law, he deserved death penalty. If that guy wasn't caught, he would be on the beach, enjoying sunshine, cold beer and pussies while hundreds of addicts, their families and so on would be struggling every day to survive, yes, I mean survive (poor people in 3rd world country still have to worry about their food every day).
..and btw, Singapore isn't a third world country, not to mention the people who live there are FAR from starving. Get your facts right.
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
On June 25 2009 03:31 Clasic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 03:28 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 03:25 GoodWill wrote:On June 25 2009 03:09 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 02:53 InfeSteD wrote:On June 25 2009 02:44 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:On June 25 2009 02:39 hixhix wrote:On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? If your counter argument is like that, I have no interest to continue the discussion with you. Because you have no reasonable answer? Because you know he's right? On June 25 2009 02:43 floor exercise wrote:On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? Does this come in car analogy form as well? That's not even remotely close to the guns/car analogy. A DEATH sentence for drug trafficking? That is absolutely ridiculous. Prison time? Absolutely. Really large fines? Absolutely. Death? It's excessive. My best friend dissapeared for 2 years on me.. I would call his mom, friends, everyone and nobody could tell his whereabouts... one time he called me from the hospital saying he was dying he couldnt move any parts of his body... later on he told me he was addicted to heroin, slept in the streets, stole money, stole houses, lost everything he had.. and this friend of mine was a straight A student, never drank or smoke or did anything bad.. he was really responsible, etc (u get the point) he almost died because of that shit... Im not saying death penalty is ok, but then again makes me think.. who do I rather have died.. the 1 person causing all this or a shitload of people because of 1 person? And this is the dealer's fault and not your friend's how? Are you suggesting that profiting from these addictive substances is fair so long as buyers are not coerced into it? As long as there's no coercion or fraud, yeah. *Sigh* You realize these people made one bad choice in their life and now they can't get off the drug, correct? The dealer is killing thousands, even millions of people and hes profiting from it. You don't think the murder/torture of thousands is completely alright?
Dude I smoke weed every day and I am completely the one being responsible for it.
If you are stupid enough to even _TRY_ something like heroine you're one big dumb fuck because EVERYONE knows this stuff makes addicted as fuck.
Yea people that sell heroine ain't any good, but after all its up to the consumer in the most cases.
And except for heroine you can stop EACH drug after the first time, you can even stop heroine after "just one time" - you have to realize its not just "one bad choice in their life" but MANY bad choices in your life or the fact that you gave up yourself not trying to fight the drug after you became addicted.
And believe me, I sure know how hard it is to stop drugs, especially since personally I can't seem to do it right now - and its just weed after all.
But then again I know who's responsible for it.
There will always be dealers, if one doesn't sell you the stuff you need, you'll go and find the next dealer. That's how an addicts brain works.
I guess every smoker in the world can tell you, just that their dealers are allowed to sell them their drug.
Cigarettes do also kill people, now why didn't the leaders of Marlboro, West & co did not get fried yet then? Who do you think is responsible for more people dying each year, a drug dealer or cigarette production?
Not saying its good, I am against death sentence by any means - but on the other hand most people are right when they say - HOW FUCKING STUPID can you be to sell drugs in an Asian country where you can get death sentenced for it!?
Prolly took too much of his own dope...
Sorry about the girl when she really didn't know about the drugs, but that's about it.
I feel much more sorry for those people who die each day because they cannot get a fucking piece to eat.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
People who live in 3d world country's are exposed to drugs way more then those that live in, say the U.S.
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On June 25 2009 03:43 dinmsab wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 02:59 hixhix wrote:
People who think death penalty is too excessive for drug trafficking, you obviously have no idea how serious this is. Do some research on Google if you have no real life experience. In short, one drug dealer makes hundred thousands, millions of dollars by killing hundred or thousands of people directly or indirectly in very short time, causing many problems after others, especially in 3rd world countries.
p/s: don't compare this with something stupid like selling cigarette. I love how you specifically point out that drugs cause more problems in 3rd world countries as if people in developed countries are immune to drugs. Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 02:33 hixhix wrote:
The other recent incident was also about a Vietnamese - Australian getting caught in Singapore. Australian government, the drug drealer's school, friend... etc made it really big asking SIngapore to not kill that guy. But no, he broke the law, he deserved death penalty. If that guy wasn't caught, he would be on the beach, enjoying sunshine, cold beer and pussies while hundreds of addicts, their families and so on would be struggling every day to survive, yes, I mean survive (poor people in 3rd world country still have to worry about their food every day). ..and btw, Singapore isn't a third world country, not to mention the people who live there are FAR from starving. Get your facts right.
Lots of people in 3rd world countries don't have access to basic healthcare let alone rehabilitation centers. Drug addiction is a bigger problem in developing nations
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Retarded law, dumb dealer.
Drug laws are a total waste of time, effort and money.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
On June 25 2009 03:46 iNfeRnaL wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 03:31 Clasic wrote:On June 25 2009 03:28 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 03:25 GoodWill wrote:On June 25 2009 03:09 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 02:53 InfeSteD wrote:On June 25 2009 02:44 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:On June 25 2009 02:39 hixhix wrote:On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? If your counter argument is like that, I have no interest to continue the discussion with you. Because you have no reasonable answer? Because you know he's right? On June 25 2009 02:43 floor exercise wrote:On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? Does this come in car analogy form as well? That's not even remotely close to the guns/car analogy. A DEATH sentence for drug trafficking? That is absolutely ridiculous. Prison time? Absolutely. Really large fines? Absolutely. Death? It's excessive. My best friend dissapeared for 2 years on me.. I would call his mom, friends, everyone and nobody could tell his whereabouts... one time he called me from the hospital saying he was dying he couldnt move any parts of his body... later on he told me he was addicted to heroin, slept in the streets, stole money, stole houses, lost everything he had.. and this friend of mine was a straight A student, never drank or smoke or did anything bad.. he was really responsible, etc (u get the point) he almost died because of that shit... Im not saying death penalty is ok, but then again makes me think.. who do I rather have died.. the 1 person causing all this or a shitload of people because of 1 person? And this is the dealer's fault and not your friend's how? Are you suggesting that profiting from these addictive substances is fair so long as buyers are not coerced into it? As long as there's no coercion or fraud, yeah. *Sigh* You realize these people made one bad choice in their life and now they can't get off the drug, correct? The dealer is killing thousands, even millions of people and hes profiting from it. You don't think the murder/torture of thousands is completely alright? Dude I smoke weed every day and I am completely the one being responsible for it. If you are stupid enough to even _TRY_ something like heroine you're one big dumb fuck because EVERYONE knows this stuff makes addicted as fuck. Yea people that sell heroine ain't any good, but after all its up to the consumer in the most cases. And except for heroine you can stop EACH drug after the first time, you can even stop heroine after "just one time" - you have to realize its not just "one bad choice in their life" but MANY bad choices in your life or the fact that you gave up yourself not trying to fight the drug after you became addicted. And believe me, I sure know how hard it is to stop drugs, especially since personally I can't seem to do it right now - and its just weed after all. But then again I know who's responsible for it. There will always be dealers, if one doesn't sell you the stuff you need, you'll go and find the next dealer. That's how an addicts brain works. I guess every smoker in the world can tell you, just that their dealers are allowed to sell them their drug. Cigarettes do also kill people, now why didn't the leaders of Marlboro, West & co did not get fried yet then? Who do you think is responsible for more people dying each year, a drug dealer or cigarette production? Not saying its good, I am against death sentence by any means - but on the other hand most people are right when they say - HOW FUCKING STUPID can you be to sell drugs in an Asian country where you can get death sentenced for it!? Prolly took too much of his own dope... Sorry about the girl when she really didn't know about the drugs, but that's about it. I feel much more sorry for those people who die each day because they cannot get a fucking piece to eat.
I smoke weed once every week, and its not addicting. I know were your coming from, but in a 3d world country were you don't even have a fucking TV, what else are you suppose to do, go catch butter flys?
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Canada9720 Posts
the death penalty is draconian and a pretty savage remnant of less sophisticated times. i don't think it should be used under any circumstances.
in this instance, certainly the two dealers deserve jail time, but not execution.
addressing the reduction arguments: you can counter intrigue's analogy with the intent to harm people, but you'd still be a little off -- drug dealers don't aim to explicitly harm anyone, they just want to earn a cheap buck. cigarettes are a perfect analogy, and unfortunately, concluding your post with the decree "cigarette analogies aren't valid so don't even try!" isn't an argument.
neither is lack of proficiency in english: if your english is so poor you aren't able to back up your posts in a topic of this nature, it's perhaps best you avoid posting altogether
something i think would be a interesting argument for the harsh treatment of drug crimes is the historical effect of opium, especially in china. i don't know enough about it to tackle that angle from either point of view, though.
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There are so many terrible/extreme analogies and examples in this thread, and people's interpretations of them are just as bad. When somebody says "so you think this is not the drug addicts fault how?" they don't mean it's *only* the drug addicts fault, they just refer to the fact that you laid all of the blame on the drug dealer and issued non of the responsibility to the user. I don't know if this thread only contains trolls but the terrible analogies such as *swearing* one have to stop. They do not compare at all.
A black guy trafficking heavy amounts of hard drugs to an extremist, undemocratic country being issued a death penalty? big surprise...
edit: typo
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On June 25 2009 03:31 Clasic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 03:28 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 03:25 GoodWill wrote:On June 25 2009 03:09 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 02:53 InfeSteD wrote:On June 25 2009 02:44 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:On June 25 2009 02:39 hixhix wrote:On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? If your counter argument is like that, I have no interest to continue the discussion with you. Because you have no reasonable answer? Because you know he's right? On June 25 2009 02:43 floor exercise wrote:On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? Does this come in car analogy form as well? That's not even remotely close to the guns/car analogy. A DEATH sentence for drug trafficking? That is absolutely ridiculous. Prison time? Absolutely. Really large fines? Absolutely. Death? It's excessive. My best friend dissapeared for 2 years on me.. I would call his mom, friends, everyone and nobody could tell his whereabouts... one time he called me from the hospital saying he was dying he couldnt move any parts of his body... later on he told me he was addicted to heroin, slept in the streets, stole money, stole houses, lost everything he had.. and this friend of mine was a straight A student, never drank or smoke or did anything bad.. he was really responsible, etc (u get the point) he almost died because of that shit... Im not saying death penalty is ok, but then again makes me think.. who do I rather have died.. the 1 person causing all this or a shitload of people because of 1 person? And this is the dealer's fault and not your friend's how? Are you suggesting that profiting from these addictive substances is fair so long as buyers are not coerced into it? As long as there's no coercion or fraud, yeah. *Sigh* You realize these people made one bad choice in their life and now they can't get off the drug, correct? The dealer is killing thousands, even millions of people and hes profiting from it. You don't think the murder/torture of thousands is completely alright?
I suppose bartenders are murderers too.
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That drug trafficker facilitated the slow, painful, death of hundreds of people. He alienated victims from their families and friends
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On June 25 2009 03:51 Hawk wrote:
Retarded law, dumb dealer.
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On June 25 2009 03:55 CTStalker wrote:
the death penalty is draconian and a pretty savage remnant of less sophisticated times. i don't think it should be used under any circumstances.
in this instance, certainly the two dealers deserve jail time, but not execution.
addressing the reduction arguments: you can counter intrigue's analogy with the intent to harm people, but you'd still be a little off -- drug dealers don't aim to explicitly harm anyone, they just want to earn a cheap buck. cigarettes are a perfect analogy, and unfortunately, concluding your post with the decree "cigarette analogies aren't valid so don't even try!" isn't an argument.
neither is lack of proficiency in english: if your english is so poor you aren't able to back up your posts in a topic of this nature, it's perhaps best you avoid posting altogether
something i think would be a interesting argument for the harsh treatment of drug crimes is the historical effect of opium, especially in china. i don't know enough about it to tackle that angle from either point of view, though.
The cigarette analogy works to a certain point. I know a lot of smokers, but how many of them would be willing to kill for a puff? Not that many, right? It's all about degrees. Weed is also illegal, but selling 1 kg of weed probably won't get you a death sentence, because it's not that dangerous as a drug. However, as I said before, coke leads to a ton of crap, so if they want to stop it by all means, then it's their right to do so. You don't like it? Don't sell the fucking thing. A cheap buck is also killing someone to get their money. Even if you don't want to harm the person, per se, you have nothing against him, you just want his money and he won't give it to you.
Analogies don't work most of the times because they're analogies. It's not the same thing to do coke or to smoke cigarettes.
Also, I don't see why the death sentence is frowned upon. You kill a man to take his money, you die. It should be as easy as that. You rape people, you die. You kill someone while driving drunk, you die. People will think twice before doing that shit if the consequences would be more severe.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
On June 25 2009 04:00 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 03:31 Clasic wrote:On June 25 2009 03:28 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 03:25 GoodWill wrote:On June 25 2009 03:09 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 02:53 InfeSteD wrote:On June 25 2009 02:44 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:On June 25 2009 02:39 hixhix wrote:On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? If your counter argument is like that, I have no interest to continue the discussion with you. Because you have no reasonable answer? Because you know he's right? On June 25 2009 02:43 floor exercise wrote:On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? Does this come in car analogy form as well? That's not even remotely close to the guns/car analogy. A DEATH sentence for drug trafficking? That is absolutely ridiculous. Prison time? Absolutely. Really large fines? Absolutely. Death? It's excessive. My best friend dissapeared for 2 years on me.. I would call his mom, friends, everyone and nobody could tell his whereabouts... one time he called me from the hospital saying he was dying he couldnt move any parts of his body... later on he told me he was addicted to heroin, slept in the streets, stole money, stole houses, lost everything he had.. and this friend of mine was a straight A student, never drank or smoke or did anything bad.. he was really responsible, etc (u get the point) he almost died because of that shit... Im not saying death penalty is ok, but then again makes me think.. who do I rather have died.. the 1 person causing all this or a shitload of people because of 1 person? And this is the dealer's fault and not your friend's how? Are you suggesting that profiting from these addictive substances is fair so long as buyers are not coerced into it? As long as there's no coercion or fraud, yeah. *Sigh* You realize these people made one bad choice in their life and now they can't get off the drug, correct? The dealer is killing thousands, even millions of people and hes profiting from it. You don't think the murder/torture of thousands is completely alright? I suppose bartenders are murderers too.
Yeah, I guess they are. Except Alcohol is legal.
Edit :
Also, I don't see why the death sentence is frowned upon. You kill a man to take his money, you die. It should be as easy as that. You rape people, you die. You kill someone while driving drunk, you die. People will think twice before doing that shit if the consequences would be more severe.
Exactly. He deserves it, and better not bitch because he already knew this shit.
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On June 25 2009 04:00 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 03:31 Clasic wrote:On June 25 2009 03:28 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 03:25 GoodWill wrote:On June 25 2009 03:09 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 02:53 InfeSteD wrote:On June 25 2009 02:44 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:On June 25 2009 02:39 hixhix wrote:On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? If your counter argument is like that, I have no interest to continue the discussion with you. Because you have no reasonable answer? Because you know he's right? On June 25 2009 02:43 floor exercise wrote:On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? Does this come in car analogy form as well? That's not even remotely close to the guns/car analogy. A DEATH sentence for drug trafficking? That is absolutely ridiculous. Prison time? Absolutely. Really large fines? Absolutely. Death? It's excessive. My best friend dissapeared for 2 years on me.. I would call his mom, friends, everyone and nobody could tell his whereabouts... one time he called me from the hospital saying he was dying he couldnt move any parts of his body... later on he told me he was addicted to heroin, slept in the streets, stole money, stole houses, lost everything he had.. and this friend of mine was a straight A student, never drank or smoke or did anything bad.. he was really responsible, etc (u get the point) he almost died because of that shit... Im not saying death penalty is ok, but then again makes me think.. who do I rather have died.. the 1 person causing all this or a shitload of people because of 1 person? And this is the dealer's fault and not your friend's how? Are you suggesting that profiting from these addictive substances is fair so long as buyers are not coerced into it? As long as there's no coercion or fraud, yeah. *Sigh* You realize these people made one bad choice in their life and now they can't get off the drug, correct? The dealer is killing thousands, even millions of people and hes profiting from it. You don't think the murder/torture of thousands is completely alright? I suppose bartenders are murderers too.
Alcohol kills several times the amount of people that all other illegal drugs in the world combined do. It should be illegal From a moral standpoint. From my standpoint it shouldn't be because it is a cultural custom and by now people should understand its' effects and stay away from frequent use. However I also think that there should be much more education about quantities of alcohol and how frequent use creates alcoholics, not amount.
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On June 25 2009 03:28 Spike wrote:
Meh, not even a big anti-drug guy but I don't think it's excessively harsh.
He knew the risk and he took them.
This.
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On June 25 2009 04:05 Clasic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 04:00 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 03:31 Clasic wrote:On June 25 2009 03:28 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 03:25 GoodWill wrote:On June 25 2009 03:09 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 02:53 InfeSteD wrote:On June 25 2009 02:44 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:On June 25 2009 02:39 hixhix wrote:On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:
[quote]
so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? If your counter argument is like that, I have no interest to continue the discussion with you. Because you have no reasonable answer? Because you know he's right? On June 25 2009 02:43 floor exercise wrote:On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:
[quote]
so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? Does this come in car analogy form as well? That's not even remotely close to the guns/car analogy. A DEATH sentence for drug trafficking? That is absolutely ridiculous. Prison time? Absolutely. Really large fines? Absolutely. Death? It's excessive. My best friend dissapeared for 2 years on me.. I would call his mom, friends, everyone and nobody could tell his whereabouts... one time he called me from the hospital saying he was dying he couldnt move any parts of his body... later on he told me he was addicted to heroin, slept in the streets, stole money, stole houses, lost everything he had.. and this friend of mine was a straight A student, never drank or smoke or did anything bad.. he was really responsible, etc (u get the point) he almost died because of that shit... Im not saying death penalty is ok, but then again makes me think.. who do I rather have died.. the 1 person causing all this or a shitload of people because of 1 person? And this is the dealer's fault and not your friend's how? Are you suggesting that profiting from these addictive substances is fair so long as buyers are not coerced into it? As long as there's no coercion or fraud, yeah. *Sigh* You realize these people made one bad choice in their life and now they can't get off the drug, correct? The dealer is killing thousands, even millions of people and hes profiting from it. You don't think the murder/torture of thousands is completely alright? I suppose bartenders are murderers too. Yeah, I guess they are. Except Alcohol is legal.
So is skydiving. I suppose companies that provide the planes for skydiving and let people pack their own chutes are murderers too.
Let's demonize everyone who doesn't prevent someone else from doing something stupid!
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Great opportunity to china bash! I don't think it's excessive at all, these people knew about the consequences of trafficking drugs into Asian countries and they know that they are potentially harming thousands of people for their own benefit/profit. You know the rule is right there, if you still go ahead and do it then you get what's coming, simple.
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On June 25 2009 04:01 MoRe_mInErAls wrote:
That drug trafficker facilitated the slow, painful, death of hundreds of people. He alienated victims from their families and friends
no, the person who willingly bought the drugs on their own free will did that. The drug dealer was just the place to get them at. Just like smoking, you choose to smoke, you choose to ruin your own life. Tobacco companies are not held responsible for the people they kill, because in the end, it's the users choice. Stop saying that drug dealers are killing people, because thats wrong. There is free choice in this world, and unless the drug dealer has a gun to your head demanding you shoot up the heroine, it's no ones fault but your own.
2nd, since when is it ok for someone else to decide whether or not you live or die. That should not be anyones choice but your own. I think it's disgusting that those countries have such low regard for human life, that they are willing to kill people over drug crimes. There is without a doubt, much better ways to deal with those things, yet it seems perfectly fine to decide another mans fate, and choose to end his life, because he sold drugs. Thats pretty fucked up. 25 years in jail? SURE! but to decide that he no longer can live (who's the boss here who has the right to make those decisions) is pretty damn primitive if you ask me.
lastly hixhix stop assuming that everyone here is blind to how 3rd world countries operate. Most people here are very intelligent concerning world events and knowledge in general. You act as if you are lecturing a 3rd grade class on the subject, like were all soo ignorant about whats going on in the world. The country is not even considered 3rd world, yet you are rattling off as if poverty is taking thousands of lives everyday. Singapore is not the only place in the world where people struggle to eat everyday. This happens EVERYWHERE. I live in a fair sized city in Canada, and we have tons of people that cannot afford to both eat and pay bills. Not to mention the massive amount of homeless people in every city you goto. These problems are not only seen in 3rd world countries, and drugs affect people the sameway. There is no difference between someone struggling to stay alive on the streets, putting a needle into his arm, and someone in singapore trying to survive also putting a needle in his arm. If you are soo closed minded that you wont take arguments then I suggest stop posting in this thread. It's not up to you to decide which arguments are ok , and which are "stupid" . Also, not knowing english well enough is also not an excuse to ignore someones argument. If you cannot speak english properly, then you cannot debate properly, and that's your fault, not the guy who made a VALID arguement (that you ignored without response)
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Canada9720 Posts
not to mention that assuming the moral validity of alcohol's distribution because it's legal to drink is an argument cop-out
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
On June 25 2009 04:02 zizou21 wrote:
This.
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so you can't blame the drug dealer? that is so stupid why do you think they are making examples out of these people?
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On June 25 2009 03:43 dinmsab wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 02:59 hixhix wrote:
People who think death penalty is too excessive for drug trafficking, you obviously have no idea how serious this is. Do some research on Google if you have no real life experience. In short, one drug dealer makes hundred thousands, millions of dollars by killing hundred or thousands of people directly or indirectly in very short time, causing many problems after others, especially in 3rd world countries.
p/s: don't compare this with something stupid like selling cigarette. I love how you specifically point out that drugs cause more problems in 3rd world countries as if people in developed countries are immune to drugs. Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 02:33 hixhix wrote:
The other recent incident was also about a Vietnamese - Australian getting caught in Singapore. Australian government, the drug drealer's school, friend... etc made it really big asking SIngapore to not kill that guy. But no, he broke the law, he deserved death penalty. If that guy wasn't caught, he would be on the beach, enjoying sunshine, cold beer and pussies while hundreds of addicts, their families and so on would be struggling every day to survive, yes, I mean survive (poor people in 3rd world country still have to worry about their food every day). ..and btw, Singapore isn't a third world country, not to mention the people who live there are FAR from starving. Get your facts right.
First, I never said people in the developed countries are immune to drugs. I said in the third world countries where the population is huge, the education level is low and there are too many fucked up shit everyday, drugs lead to serious serious serious consequences that many people here living there entire life in the bubble will never know. If you cant see how drugs cause more problems in third world countries, you aren't capable of following the discussion here.
Second, I never said Singapore was a third world country or people there were starving, what the hell are you talking about.
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On June 25 2009 03:25 GoodWill wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 03:09 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 02:53 InfeSteD wrote:On June 25 2009 02:44 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:On June 25 2009 02:39 hixhix wrote:On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? If your counter argument is like that, I have no interest to continue the discussion with you. Because you have no reasonable answer? Because you know he's right? On June 25 2009 02:43 floor exercise wrote:On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? Does this come in car analogy form as well? That's not even remotely close to the guns/car analogy. A DEATH sentence for drug trafficking? That is absolutely ridiculous. Prison time? Absolutely. Really large fines? Absolutely. Death? It's excessive. My best friend dissapeared for 2 years on me.. I would call his mom, friends, everyone and nobody could tell his whereabouts... one time he called me from the hospital saying he was dying he couldnt move any parts of his body... later on he told me he was addicted to heroin, slept in the streets, stole money, stole houses, lost everything he had.. and this friend of mine was a straight A student, never drank or smoke or did anything bad.. he was really responsible, etc (u get the point) he almost died because of that shit... Im not saying death penalty is ok, but then again makes me think.. who do I rather have died.. the 1 person causing all this or a shitload of people because of 1 person? And this is the dealer's fault and not your friend's how? Are you suggesting that profiting from these addictive substances is fair so long as buyers are not coerced into it?
u mean like...the tobacco and alcohol industries? ..oh wait
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POWNED by the chinese justice system much?
Oh well cant say i feel sorry for him and to be frank im kinda happy he got arrested for drug traficking in China instead of say Europe.
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We need to change our way of looking at the situation when it comes to drugs, drug dealers, and those who buy the drugs in question. This law is fucking bad.
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On June 25 2009 03:02 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 02:48 hixhix wrote:On June 25 2009 02:44 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:On June 25 2009 02:39 hixhix wrote:On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? If your counter argument is like that, I have no interest to continue the discussion with you. Because you have no reasonable answer? Because you know he's right? None of that. It's because of the obvious fact that English is not my native language and I'm not a lawyer so I cant make my words 100% correct. If you are mature enough you get the point. Instead, if you try to play the devil's advocate picking one extremely irrelevant example, I just let it go. "Never discuss with an idiot; first he brings you down to his level, then he beats you with experience" It's not an "extremely irrelevant example." It is reductio ad absurdum and it is a perfectly valid argument.
It's actually not a reductio ad absurdum. I wonder what he's trying to prove with his example though, since I don't believe that it is a valid counterpoint.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
On June 25 2009 04:09 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 04:05 Clasic wrote:On June 25 2009 04:00 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 03:31 Clasic wrote:On June 25 2009 03:28 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 03:25 GoodWill wrote:On June 25 2009 03:09 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 02:53 InfeSteD wrote:On June 25 2009 02:44 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:On June 25 2009 02:39 hixhix wrote:
[quote]
If your counter argument is like that, I have no interest to continue the discussion with you. Because you have no reasonable answer? Because you know he's right? On June 25 2009 02:43 floor exercise wrote:
[quote]
Does this come in car analogy form as well? That's not even remotely close to the guns/car analogy. A DEATH sentence for drug trafficking? That is absolutely ridiculous. Prison time? Absolutely. Really large fines? Absolutely. Death? It's excessive. My best friend dissapeared for 2 years on me.. I would call his mom, friends, everyone and nobody could tell his whereabouts... one time he called me from the hospital saying he was dying he couldnt move any parts of his body... later on he told me he was addicted to heroin, slept in the streets, stole money, stole houses, lost everything he had.. and this friend of mine was a straight A student, never drank or smoke or did anything bad.. he was really responsible, etc (u get the point) he almost died because of that shit... Im not saying death penalty is ok, but then again makes me think.. who do I rather have died.. the 1 person causing all this or a shitload of people because of 1 person? And this is the dealer's fault and not your friend's how? Are you suggesting that profiting from these addictive substances is fair so long as buyers are not coerced into it? As long as there's no coercion or fraud, yeah. *Sigh* You realize these people made one bad choice in their life and now they can't get off the drug, correct? The dealer is killing thousands, even millions of people and hes profiting from it. You don't think the murder/torture of thousands is completely alright? I suppose bartenders are murderers too. Yeah, I guess they are. Except Alcohol is legal. So is skydiving. I suppose companies that provide the planes for skydiving and let people pack their own chutes are murderers too. Let's demonize everyone who doesn't prevent someone else from doing something stupid!
you don't get the point. its legal, they can do it. heroin in most country's is not, don't do it.
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Move to China they said.
Sell drugs they said.
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On June 25 2009 04:36 Clasic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 04:09 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 04:05 Clasic wrote:On June 25 2009 04:00 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 03:31 Clasic wrote:On June 25 2009 03:28 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 03:25 GoodWill wrote:On June 25 2009 03:09 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 02:53 InfeSteD wrote:On June 25 2009 02:44 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:
[quote]
Because you have no reasonable answer? Because you know he's right?
[quote]
That's not even remotely close to the guns/car analogy. A DEATH sentence for drug trafficking? That is absolutely ridiculous. Prison time? Absolutely. Really large fines? Absolutely. Death? It's excessive. My best friend dissapeared for 2 years on me.. I would call his mom, friends, everyone and nobody could tell his whereabouts... one time he called me from the hospital saying he was dying he couldnt move any parts of his body... later on he told me he was addicted to heroin, slept in the streets, stole money, stole houses, lost everything he had.. and this friend of mine was a straight A student, never drank or smoke or did anything bad.. he was really responsible, etc (u get the point) he almost died because of that shit... Im not saying death penalty is ok, but then again makes me think.. who do I rather have died.. the 1 person causing all this or a shitload of people because of 1 person? And this is the dealer's fault and not your friend's how? Are you suggesting that profiting from these addictive substances is fair so long as buyers are not coerced into it? As long as there's no coercion or fraud, yeah. *Sigh* You realize these people made one bad choice in their life and now they can't get off the drug, correct? The dealer is killing thousands, even millions of people and hes profiting from it. You don't think the murder/torture of thousands is completely alright? I suppose bartenders are murderers too. Yeah, I guess they are. Except Alcohol is legal. So is skydiving. I suppose companies that provide the planes for skydiving and let people pack their own chutes are murderers too. Let's demonize everyone who doesn't prevent someone else from doing something stupid! you don't get the point. its legal, they can do it. heroin in most country's is not, don't do it.
So heroin is bad and its providers murderers because it is illegal?
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Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
Also : I can't amagine how much the price of any sort of drug is in China lol. $400 a gram in Texas, I think, last time I asked a drug dealer. So I assume in China it will be like, $1000/g?
Edit:
On June 25 2009 04:41 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 04:36 Clasic wrote:On June 25 2009 04:09 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 04:05 Clasic wrote:On June 25 2009 04:00 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 03:31 Clasic wrote:On June 25 2009 03:28 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 03:25 GoodWill wrote:On June 25 2009 03:09 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 02:53 InfeSteD wrote:
[quote]
My best friend dissapeared for 2 years on me.. I would call his mom, friends, everyone and nobody could tell his whereabouts... one time he called me from the hospital saying he was dying he couldnt move any parts of his body... later on he told me he was addicted to heroin, slept in the streets, stole money, stole houses, lost everything he had.. and this friend of mine was a straight A student, never drank or smoke or did anything bad.. he was really responsible, etc (u get the point) he almost died because of that shit...
Im not saying death penalty is ok, but then again makes me think.. who do I rather have died.. the 1 person causing all this or a shitload of people because of 1 person? And this is the dealer's fault and not your friend's how? Are you suggesting that profiting from these addictive substances is fair so long as buyers are not coerced into it? As long as there's no coercion or fraud, yeah. *Sigh* You realize these people made one bad choice in their life and now they can't get off the drug, correct? The dealer is killing thousands, even millions of people and hes profiting from it. You don't think the murder/torture of thousands is completely alright? I suppose bartenders are murderers too. Yeah, I guess they are. Except Alcohol is legal. So is skydiving. I suppose companies that provide the planes for skydiving and let people pack their own chutes are murderers too. Let's demonize everyone who doesn't prevent someone else from doing something stupid! you don't get the point. its legal, they can do it. heroin in most country's is not, don't do it. So heroin is bad and its providers murderers because it is illegal?
I see were you are going with this. I only approve of these " alcohol dealers " because its legal, and if its legal that doesn't mean I have to like it. But look at it this way : Sure, alcohol kills more people than most of all illegal-drugs all together, but if their were as much Heroin users as alcohol users in the U.S, they would die WAY faster. Drinking alcohol isn't a guaranteed death, but constant abuse of heroin will probably result in a death.
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On June 25 2009 04:36 Clasic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 04:09 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 04:05 Clasic wrote:On June 25 2009 04:00 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 03:31 Clasic wrote:On June 25 2009 03:28 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 03:25 GoodWill wrote:On June 25 2009 03:09 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 02:53 InfeSteD wrote:On June 25 2009 02:44 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:
[quote]
Because you have no reasonable answer? Because you know he's right?
[quote]
That's not even remotely close to the guns/car analogy. A DEATH sentence for drug trafficking? That is absolutely ridiculous. Prison time? Absolutely. Really large fines? Absolutely. Death? It's excessive. My best friend dissapeared for 2 years on me.. I would call his mom, friends, everyone and nobody could tell his whereabouts... one time he called me from the hospital saying he was dying he couldnt move any parts of his body... later on he told me he was addicted to heroin, slept in the streets, stole money, stole houses, lost everything he had.. and this friend of mine was a straight A student, never drank or smoke or did anything bad.. he was really responsible, etc (u get the point) he almost died because of that shit... Im not saying death penalty is ok, but then again makes me think.. who do I rather have died.. the 1 person causing all this or a shitload of people because of 1 person? And this is the dealer's fault and not your friend's how? Are you suggesting that profiting from these addictive substances is fair so long as buyers are not coerced into it? As long as there's no coercion or fraud, yeah. *Sigh* You realize these people made one bad choice in their life and now they can't get off the drug, correct? The dealer is killing thousands, even millions of people and hes profiting from it. You don't think the murder/torture of thousands is completely alright? I suppose bartenders are murderers too. Yeah, I guess they are. Except Alcohol is legal. So is skydiving. I suppose companies that provide the planes for skydiving and let people pack their own chutes are murderers too. Let's demonize everyone who doesn't prevent someone else from doing something stupid! you don't get the point. its legal, they can do it. heroin in most country's is not, don't do it.
I think the real issue here is that saying the dealer is any less to blame than the buyer just doesn't work. Just about any buyer is going to know how fucked up you can get from Heroin and yet he still made the choice to do it.
There are several obviously bad choices in life that have very detrimental effects to your health. Taking heroin is one, playing on a freeway is another. A lot of the most detrimental things in life however are also the easiest to avoid.
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On June 25 2009 02:01 Integra wrote:
It's China, they kill people there for all kinds of reasons.
LOL. thats like saying muslims get their hands chopped off for stealing.
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wow there's a lot of self righteous people in this thread. Hope you can see us little people from that moral highground you have up there. I'll be quite happy with the realists down here.
Some dude brought heroin into china. Heroin is a terribly destructive drug. It RUINS lives. It doesn't fucking matter if the dealer, the trafficker, or the user are the responsible ones or not. All i know is that they are destroying people's lives through their actions.
They're all worthless criminals. I wish the drug laws in the USA were a lot harsher than the silly little slap on the wrists that we take. Drugs are bad mmmk?
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On June 25 2009 04:09 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 04:05 Clasic wrote:On June 25 2009 04:00 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 03:31 Clasic wrote:On June 25 2009 03:28 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 03:25 GoodWill wrote:On June 25 2009 03:09 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 02:53 InfeSteD wrote:On June 25 2009 02:44 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:On June 25 2009 02:39 hixhix wrote:
[quote]
If your counter argument is like that, I have no interest to continue the discussion with you. Because you have no reasonable answer? Because you know he's right? On June 25 2009 02:43 floor exercise wrote:
[quote]
Does this come in car analogy form as well? That's not even remotely close to the guns/car analogy. A DEATH sentence for drug trafficking? That is absolutely ridiculous. Prison time? Absolutely. Really large fines? Absolutely. Death? It's excessive. My best friend dissapeared for 2 years on me.. I would call his mom, friends, everyone and nobody could tell his whereabouts... one time he called me from the hospital saying he was dying he couldnt move any parts of his body... later on he told me he was addicted to heroin, slept in the streets, stole money, stole houses, lost everything he had.. and this friend of mine was a straight A student, never drank or smoke or did anything bad.. he was really responsible, etc (u get the point) he almost died because of that shit... Im not saying death penalty is ok, but then again makes me think.. who do I rather have died.. the 1 person causing all this or a shitload of people because of 1 person? And this is the dealer's fault and not your friend's how? Are you suggesting that profiting from these addictive substances is fair so long as buyers are not coerced into it? As long as there's no coercion or fraud, yeah. *Sigh* You realize these people made one bad choice in their life and now they can't get off the drug, correct? The dealer is killing thousands, even millions of people and hes profiting from it. You don't think the murder/torture of thousands is completely alright? I suppose bartenders are murderers too. Yeah, I guess they are. Except Alcohol is legal. So is skydiving. I suppose companies that provide the planes for skydiving and let people pack their own chutes are murderers too. Let's demonize everyone who doesn't prevent someone else from doing something stupid!
Your analogies suck, as does your way of "arguing". You throw in one sentence and completely disregard everything else someone is saying.
This analogy suck because they allow people to pack their own chute. They don't provide broken chutes. Notice the difference? Who is to say cocaine won't kill people? Does it pass quality tests? No, because it's illegal. I know that you're trying to make a rather abstract argument by saying it shouldn't be punished because it is not, in fact harmful to anyone, but it is. It's much more harmful than alcohol and smoking combined. Smokers and drinkers mostly kill themselves, which is OK! Cocaine can EASILY lead to killing others, which is NOT OK. And yes, drunk drivers should be shot.
Anything else?
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On June 25 2009 04:14 BalliSLife wrote:
so you can't blame the drug dealer? that is so stupid why do you think they are making examples out of these people?
It's nice to get re-elected each year and keeping it illegal is a much easier way of looking like youre doing something
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On June 25 2009 04:49 animus123 wrote:
wow there's a lot of self righteous people in this thread. Hope you can see us little people from that moral highground you have up there. I'll be quite happy with the realists down here.
Some dude brought heroin into china. Heroin is a terribly destructive drug. It RUINS lives. It doesn't fucking matter if the dealer, the trafficker, or the user are the responsible ones or not. All i know is that they are destroying people's lives through their actions.
They're all worthless criminals. I wish the drug laws in the USA were a lot harsher than the silly little slap on the wrists that we take. Drugs are bad mmmk?
That's a hilarious way to open a self-righteous post advocating authoritarian policies.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
On June 25 2009 04:43 Jayme wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 04:36 Clasic wrote:On June 25 2009 04:09 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 04:05 Clasic wrote:On June 25 2009 04:00 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 03:31 Clasic wrote:On June 25 2009 03:28 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 03:25 GoodWill wrote:On June 25 2009 03:09 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 02:53 InfeSteD wrote:
[quote]
My best friend dissapeared for 2 years on me.. I would call his mom, friends, everyone and nobody could tell his whereabouts... one time he called me from the hospital saying he was dying he couldnt move any parts of his body... later on he told me he was addicted to heroin, slept in the streets, stole money, stole houses, lost everything he had.. and this friend of mine was a straight A student, never drank or smoke or did anything bad.. he was really responsible, etc (u get the point) he almost died because of that shit...
Im not saying death penalty is ok, but then again makes me think.. who do I rather have died.. the 1 person causing all this or a shitload of people because of 1 person? And this is the dealer's fault and not your friend's how? Are you suggesting that profiting from these addictive substances is fair so long as buyers are not coerced into it? As long as there's no coercion or fraud, yeah. *Sigh* You realize these people made one bad choice in their life and now they can't get off the drug, correct? The dealer is killing thousands, even millions of people and hes profiting from it. You don't think the murder/torture of thousands is completely alright? I suppose bartenders are murderers too. Yeah, I guess they are. Except Alcohol is legal. So is skydiving. I suppose companies that provide the planes for skydiving and let people pack their own chutes are murderers too. Let's demonize everyone who doesn't prevent someone else from doing something stupid! you don't get the point. its legal, they can do it. heroin in most country's is not, don't do it. I think the real issue here is that saying the dealer is any less to blame than the buyer just doesn't work. Just about any buyer is going to know how fucked up you can get from Heroin and yet he still made the choice to do it. There are several obviously bad choices in life that have very detrimental effects to your health. Taking heroin is one, playing on a freeway is another. A lot of the most detrimental things in life however are also the easiest to avoid.
Hmm, ok I guess. Its a pretty hard issue to debate on IMO. Because I really do blame the user 100% for trying it for the first time when they know they're going to get their life fucked up. After their heavily addicted I blame it 70% dealer 30% user because the user just wanted to try something to go through with their fucked life, and the dealer is making a profit from ruining it. Try quitting cig's. If you can successfully quit cigarettes, thats about how hard it is to quit heroin, just a little more, but of course this all differs from body to body. Yeah, it is the users fault but without the dealer they never would of tried the drug. The user is still going to get a dealer so its w/e.. I'm done talking lol. I'm just going to start reading reply's and if their is something really debatable then I'll type some more comments lol.
Edit : Also
Your analogies suck, as does your way of "arguing".
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LOL at people thinking this is too harsh of a punishment, I wonder if you've lived the violence experimented due to this subjects. You really have no clue how much damage this people cause. And what, feed them with your taxes when you put them in jail????
imo i know death penalty is expensive, but this people never regenerate, why give them the chance to escape or keep running their business from the inside? Really, the world wont miss those scumbags. Fuck em
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i wish mexico had this laws
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Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
On June 25 2009 04:58 Night[Mare wrote:
LOL at people thinking this is too harsh of a punishment, I wonder if you've lived the violence experimented due to this subjects. You really have no clue how much damage this people cause. And what, feed them with your taxes when you put them in jail????
imo i know death penalty is expensive, but this people never regenerate, why give them the chance to escape or keep running their business from the inside? Really, the world wont miss those scumbags. Fuck em
They shouldn't even use the electric chair imo, just get a fucking gun and a bullet and shoot the man.. Doesn't require much money, and is fast and simple.
Yeah really. These heroin users would kill people, raid houses, rob old women, do anything to get heroin, and WHY? because of the dealer and their poor choice of trying the drug.
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If you wanna take the risk to make a quick buck, suck it up when you get caught. You know China doesn't fuck around with things like this, if that isn't deterrent enough, you lose at life.
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Canada9720 Posts
you guys are pretty fucked
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On June 25 2009 04:49 CubEdIn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 04:09 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 04:05 Clasic wrote:On June 25 2009 04:00 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 03:31 Clasic wrote:On June 25 2009 03:28 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 03:25 GoodWill wrote:On June 25 2009 03:09 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 02:53 InfeSteD wrote:On June 25 2009 02:44 SweeTLemonS[TPR] wrote:
[quote]
Because you have no reasonable answer? Because you know he's right?
[quote]
That's not even remotely close to the guns/car analogy. A DEATH sentence for drug trafficking? That is absolutely ridiculous. Prison time? Absolutely. Really large fines? Absolutely. Death? It's excessive. My best friend dissapeared for 2 years on me.. I would call his mom, friends, everyone and nobody could tell his whereabouts... one time he called me from the hospital saying he was dying he couldnt move any parts of his body... later on he told me he was addicted to heroin, slept in the streets, stole money, stole houses, lost everything he had.. and this friend of mine was a straight A student, never drank or smoke or did anything bad.. he was really responsible, etc (u get the point) he almost died because of that shit... Im not saying death penalty is ok, but then again makes me think.. who do I rather have died.. the 1 person causing all this or a shitload of people because of 1 person? And this is the dealer's fault and not your friend's how? Are you suggesting that profiting from these addictive substances is fair so long as buyers are not coerced into it? As long as there's no coercion or fraud, yeah. *Sigh* You realize these people made one bad choice in their life and now they can't get off the drug, correct? The dealer is killing thousands, even millions of people and hes profiting from it. You don't think the murder/torture of thousands is completely alright? I suppose bartenders are murderers too. Yeah, I guess they are. Except Alcohol is legal. So is skydiving. I suppose companies that provide the planes for skydiving and let people pack their own chutes are murderers too. Let's demonize everyone who doesn't prevent someone else from doing something stupid! Your analogies suck, as does your way of "arguing". You throw in one sentence and completely disregard everything else someone is saying. This analogy suck because they allow people to pack their own chute. They don't provide broken chutes. Notice the difference?
Ugh, the drug was meant to be analogous to the plane and the self-packed chute to the user's own actions.
Who is to say cocaine won't kill people? Does it pass quality tests? No, because it's illegal.
I think I've already addressed this. Dealers should be as upfront and truthful about what they're selling as anyone else. Beyond that, if it's the user that wants to buy a gram of cocaine that he's been told has been cut with flour then that's his prerogative.
I know that you're trying to make a rather abstract argument by saying it shouldn't be punished because it is not, in fact harmful to anyone, but it is. It's much more harmful than alcohol and smoking combined. Smokers and drinkers mostly kill themselves, which is OK! Cocaine can EASILY lead to killing others, which is NOT OK. And yes, drunk drivers should be shot.
I would rather punish people who actually harm others rather than those who you think could.
Anything else?
[insert snide remark]
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On June 25 2009 04:55 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 04:49 animus123 wrote:
wow there's a lot of self righteous people in this thread. Hope you can see us little people from that moral highground you have up there. I'll be quite happy with the realists down here.
Some dude brought heroin into china. Heroin is a terribly destructive drug. It RUINS lives. It doesn't fucking matter if the dealer, the trafficker, or the user are the responsible ones or not. All i know is that they are destroying people's lives through their actions.
They're all worthless criminals. I wish the drug laws in the USA were a lot harsher than the silly little slap on the wrists that we take. Drugs are bad mmmk? That's a hilarious way to open a self-righteous post advocating authoritarian policies.
great post. Good insight into the problem. How's life in the clouds?
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On June 25 2009 05:09 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 04:49 CubEdIn wrote:On June 25 2009 04:09 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 04:05 Clasic wrote:On June 25 2009 04:00 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 03:31 Clasic wrote:On June 25 2009 03:28 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 03:25 GoodWill wrote:On June 25 2009 03:09 Mindcrime wrote:On June 25 2009 02:53 InfeSteD wrote:
[quote]
My best friend dissapeared for 2 years on me.. I would call his mom, friends, everyone and nobody could tell his whereabouts... one time he called me from the hospital saying he was dying he couldnt move any parts of his body... later on he told me he was addicted to heroin, slept in the streets, stole money, stole houses, lost everything he had.. and this friend of mine was a straight A student, never drank or smoke or did anything bad.. he was really responsible, etc (u get the point) he almost died because of that shit...
Im not saying death penalty is ok, but then again makes me think.. who do I rather have died.. the 1 person causing all this or a shitload of people because of 1 person? And this is the dealer's fault and not your friend's how? Are you suggesting that profiting from these addictive substances is fair so long as buyers are not coerced into it? As long as there's no coercion or fraud, yeah. *Sigh* You realize these people made one bad choice in their life and now they can't get off the drug, correct? The dealer is killing thousands, even millions of people and hes profiting from it. You don't think the murder/torture of thousands is completely alright? I suppose bartenders are murderers too. Yeah, I guess they are. Except Alcohol is legal. So is skydiving. I suppose companies that provide the planes for skydiving and let people pack their own chutes are murderers too. Let's demonize everyone who doesn't prevent someone else from doing something stupid! Your analogies suck, as does your way of "arguing". You throw in one sentence and completely disregard everything else someone is saying. This analogy suck because they allow people to pack their own chute. They don't provide broken chutes. Notice the difference? Ugh, the drug was meant to be analogous to the plane and the self-packed chute to the user's own actions. Show nested quote +Who is to say cocaine won't kill people? Does it pass quality tests? No, because it's illegal. I think I've already addressed this. Dealers should be as upfront and truthful about what they're selling as anyone else. Beyond that, if it's the user that wants to buy a gram of cocaine that he's been told has been cut with flour then that's his prerogative. Show nested quote +I know that you're trying to make a rather abstract argument by saying it shouldn't be punished because it is not, in fact harmful to anyone, but it is. It's much more harmful than alcohol and smoking combined. Smokers and drinkers mostly kill themselves, which is OK! Cocaine can EASILY lead to killing others, which is NOT OK. And yes, drunk drivers should be shot. I would rather punish people who actually harm others rather than those who you think could. [insert snide remark]
Oh I'm sorry, so you're not arguing that the punishment is harsh, you just want to make drugs legal and state-legislated. Well my bad then. Carry on. You should write a letter!
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Russian Federation134 Posts
maybe not a death penalty but like a life sentence?
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i think it's great because if they're aware of the consequences then it may deter alot of people, but then the people stupid enough to do it and get caught can be eliminated from the gene pool. May be harsh but who likes drug dealers really
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It's kinda harsh but drug dealers are bad people anyway so I don't think it's a big deal really. Not like this was some kid who got dragged into drugs. Looks like a major drug trafficking dude.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
IMO anyone stupid enough to sell mass quantities of drugs in an Asian country deserves the death sentence. those people contribute nothing to society except crime.
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The death penalty is too harsh, anyone arguing otherwise is wrong. But yeah he knew the risks, and he got punished according to Chinese law. Are your brains too weak to realize both are true? There is no argument between "it's too harsh" and "he got what was coming." I'm sure he knew he could die, but killing him doesn't achieve anything.
And it's every single persons responsibility to not do heroine, not the responsibility of the drug dealers to not traffic it so that people don't get addicted. There's always someone else to deal it, killing this guys is not going to end heroine addiction. I could get heroine if I wanted, but I don't. EZ
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8748 Posts
lol @ all the people saying the only way laws can be harsh is if people are ignorant of them
please don't run for congress
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On June 25 2009 05:01 Clasic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 04:58 Night[Mare wrote:
LOL at people thinking this is too harsh of a punishment, I wonder if you've lived the violence experimented due to this subjects. You really have no clue how much damage this people cause. And what, feed them with your taxes when you put them in jail????
imo i know death penalty is expensive, but this people never regenerate, why give them the chance to escape or keep running their business from the inside? Really, the world wont miss those scumbags. Fuck em They shouldn't even use the electric chair imo, just get a fucking gun and a bullet and shoot the man.. Doesn't require much money, and is fast and simple. Yeah really. These heroin users would kill people, raid houses, rob old women, do anything to get heroin, and WHY? because of the dealer and their poor choice of trying the drug.
I say they used one of those compressed air piston guns like in No Country for Old Men so we don't have to waste the bullet and we get less splatter.
The factors leading to an individual selling drugs are complex. Put anyone with the same set of genes and experiences set through what the nigerian's been through and invariably you'll have a drug dealer. Choice rhetoric annoys me for this reason. Humans are often retarded creatures that need rules and consequences to be controlled, but lets face it, the death penalty for this is extreme. I think the individual would be far more valuble alive and used for forced labor that teaches the man a skill set. Combined this with some mandatory education into the effects of drugs use and why selling drugs is wrong, and we may have a decent citizen.
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Obviously their laws are crazy and not logical at all. however its not surprising to see bad laws in asian and terroist(iraq/iran) countries. They don't know how to manage a society anyways.
However they all did lie (at least the girl) about the drugs. You boyfriend deals death-sentence amounts of drugs and its not noticeable?
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On June 25 2009 05:33 Ancestral wrote:
The death penalty is too harsh, anyone arguing otherwise is wrong. But yeah he knew the risks, and he got punished according to Chinese law. Are your brains too weak to realize both are true? There is no argument between "it's too harsh" and "he got what was coming." I'm sure he knew he could die, but killing him doesn't achieve anything.
sounds like it achieves its intended purpose of having one less criminal out there.
On June 25 2009 05:33 Ancestral wrote:
And it's every single persons responsibility to not do heroine, not the responsibility of the drug dealers to not traffic it so that people don't get addicted. There's always someone else to deal it, killing this guys is not going to end heroine addiction. I could get heroine if I wanted, but I don't. EZ
Because drug dealers are just these guys, you know? We surely can't blame these ruthless, worthless scumbags for anything.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
On June 25 2009 05:33 Ancestral wrote:
The death penalty is too harsh, anyone arguing otherwise is wrong. But yeah he knew the risks, and he got punished according to Chinese law. Are your brains too weak to realize both are true? There is no argument between "it's too harsh" and "he got what was coming." I'm sure he knew he could die, but killing him doesn't achieve anything.
And it's every single persons responsibility to not do heroine, not the responsibility of the drug dealers to not traffic it so that people don't get addicted. There's always someone else to deal it, killing this guys is not going to end heroine addiction. I could get heroine if I wanted, but I don't. EZ
Dude, do you know how much weight he was pushing lol? That may have saved thousands of peoples lives, you never know, using heroin is like playing russian roulette.
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In pretty much all cases of drug trafficking the ones transporting are just poor guys who got no other options or where forced into it through several bad decisions themselves. They don't usually own the drugs and even if they would actually sell them they wouldn't be allowed to keep the money anyway.
There is a steady supply of people hopeless (or stupid) enough to smuggle drugs, killing one does nothing.
Really saddening how fast some users are in depriving someone of their right to live.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
On June 25 2009 05:58 silynxer wrote:
In pretty much all cases of drug trafficking the ones transporting are just poor guys who got no other options or where forced into it through several bad decisions themselves. They don't usually own the drugs and even if they would actually sell them they wouldn't be allowed to keep the money anyway.
There is a steady supply of people hopeless (or stupid) enough to smuggle drugs, killing one does nothing.
Really saddening how fast some users are in depriving someone of their right to live.
Hmmm. Good point.
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I don't think any drugs should be illegal, but I tend to be Friedman-like in my view of regulations on personal freedoms. People should be allowed to ruin their own lives, and if they infringe on the lives of others they should be punished. But offering for sale to someone something that will destroy them isn't objectionable in my view.
Like I said, I could do heroine if I wanted, but I don't. Now there are other things that drug dealers certainly do that directly harm people, and those are bad.
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this isn't pot we are talking about guys. This is a drug so strong it can insta ruin your life in 1 try and it is the most common way for pimps to create/train whores. This drug is evil. If you sell 20 pounds of heroin, you are directly helping a certain amount of people to get shot-robbed-poisened-addicted/ruined. If this was pot or mushrooms or even cocaine I would think this was harsh, but if your selling heroin in copious quantities you are an evil person. I think with the amount of damage they were inflicting to others their death is fine.
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China.
Enough said 
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simple fact is that none of your opinions matter because the Chinese govt could care less what a bunch of middle class white kids think about their laws
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After living in China and the US, and having a Dutch step-dad for most of my life, I think one of the most important thing's I've learned is that every country is like an individual family. Every family has its own rules and it's usually not the other families business to interfere. People who are arguing that the death penalty is too harsh or oh what do you know it's China or w/e need to try to think of it in a different angle. No one can decide exactly what is wrong or right but there are certain rules in a country and I think it's up to everyone to try to live a lawful life. There's nothing wrong with having different opinions but even if you disagree with something you should still respect it. I don't know, I guess I tend to be more of a big picture person.
The fact is, crime or drug trafficing (sp?) can never be eliminated and I think everyone knows that. If you kill a so called criminal, more will pop up. I don't think this is really a human rights issue or political issue, I thinik it's just news. A person broke the law in his country and he payed the consequences, there's no need to get overly excited, or draw assumptions, or draw analogies to try to prove the punishment doesn't fit the crime because who can decide what does?
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On June 25 2009 06:39 roflMe wrote:
simple fact is that none of your opinions matter because the Chinese govt could care less what a bunch of middle class white kids think about their laws
What a good point.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On June 25 2009 02:59 hixhix wrote:
People who think death penalty is too excessive for drug trafficking, you obviously have no idea how serious this is. Do some research on Google if you have no real life experience. In short, one drug dealer makes hundred thousands, millions of dollars by killing hundred or thousands of people directly or indirectly in very short time, causing many problems after others, especially in 3rd world countries.
p/s: don't compare this with something stupid like selling cigarette.
So put them in prison for the rest of their lives, why do you have to insist on state sponsored murder?
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killing the girlfriend is what i dont get
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On June 25 2009 06:42 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 02:59 hixhix wrote:
People who think death penalty is too excessive for drug trafficking, you obviously have no idea how serious this is. Do some research on Google if you have no real life experience. In short, one drug dealer makes hundred thousands, millions of dollars by killing hundred or thousands of people directly or indirectly in very short time, causing many problems after others, especially in 3rd world countries.
p/s: don't compare this with something stupid like selling cigarette. So put them in prison for the rest of their lives, why do you have to insist on state sponsored murder?
Tsssss you are a white kid you can't understand ;<
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The people that are talking about how bad the drug is have a fucking idea of how big of a deal this is!!! and the people fucking trying to compare tobacco and alcohol and weed, etc.. have no fucking clue of HOW BAD BADBADBABADBADBAD heroin is! or maybe they do but theyve never have anyone close go through some shit like that...
Like I said my best friend that did it.. was the goodest kid in world, but as fucking teens or 20's we get down sometimes and some fucking how u try ONCE! one motherfucking time... and its a lifeturner... he almost fucking died from that shit... thanks god hes stronger than most and got out by himself and does nothing now and hes living a normal life..
but in those 2 years where he was addicted.. he slept in the streets, robbed old ladies, robbed houses and cars and would even kill to smoke heroin... he would also deal it.. so why would u ever feel bad for him or the person that sold it to him? why?
Why defend those bad ones ? instead of defending the goverment that is trying to protect the rest of the citizens.. that's all laws are made for? so if you're gonna say something back it up with logic arguments of WHY! they should have mercy on drug dealers?
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Something happened like this in australia... 9 guys smuggled drugs into bali i think and some faced the death penalty...
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=( poor guy, thats why you dont fuck around in china. Unless you have connections with higher-ups, or you get all the netizens to back you, then thats a different story.
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On June 25 2009 02:02 Eniram wrote:
Hey.. He knew the risk when he got into that business. I can't feel bad for him
This. Yes it's harsh but they the risk and dangers and thought it was worth it for the money they could make.
They failed to do a proper risk analysis and are now paying the ultimate price...it sucks but they only have themselves to blame. I'm not in favor of the death penalty, but they where they stood.
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Mystlord
United States10264 Posts
I personally am not in favor of capital punishment, so I don't think that the death penalty will really solve anything. The worst part is that these two will probably get shot in the head as a method of execution. That's a pretty painful way to die.
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On June 25 2009 06:44 Boblion wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 06:42 FrozenArbiter wrote:On June 25 2009 02:59 hixhix wrote:
People who think death penalty is too excessive for drug trafficking, you obviously have no idea how serious this is. Do some research on Google if you have no real life experience. In short, one drug dealer makes hundred thousands, millions of dollars by killing hundred or thousands of people directly or indirectly in very short time, causing many problems after others, especially in 3rd world countries.
p/s: don't compare this with something stupid like selling cigarette. So put them in prison for the rest of their lives, why do you have to insist on state sponsored murder? Tsssss you are a white kid you can't understand ;<
Also imprisonment is a lot more expensive than capital punishment.
China is a country always in need of more money and with a population of over 3 billion. You can guess which one wins.
It's in the states interest to just kill you Sad but true.
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Look up stuff about Chinese organ harvesting. It's fucked...
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Life isn't always sunshine and rainbows. They got what they deserved. Clint was right, calling us a generation of pussies.
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I guess they wont be shovelin' snow anymore, if you know what i mean.
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I think it is because he is of nigerian descent which is why its harder to swallow with the death sentence but i'm sure chinese drug dealers get owned even harder every single day but it won't make the news since it would be repetitive and boring for media. And obviously being a consumer and drug dealer is gonna put both at fault since one won't work without the other.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On June 25 2009 06:44 Duke wrote:
killing the girlfriend is what i dont get
If the article is to be believed, she sold just about as much as he did so if they are gonna kill him, why not her?
(Don't think either should be killed obviously)
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On June 25 2009 03:42 Athos wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Damnit Smooky, you could have let him live!
That's exactly what i thought.
But it's china, there's a reason why shipments from colombia aren't going to china. Plus drug dealing is pretty serious business that needs to stop.
Anywho i think we need a poll to resolve the issue...
Poll: Was death penalty deserved, knowing the risks?
(Vote): Yes, they probably caused a lot more harm
(Vote): No, no one deserves to die for this
(Vote): No fence sitting
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On June 25 2009 06:44 InfeSteD wrote:
The people that are talking about how bad the drug is have a fucking idea of how big of a deal this is!!! and the people fucking trying to compare tobacco and alcohol and weed, etc.. have no fucking clue of HOW BAD BADBADBABADBADBAD heroin is! or maybe they do but theyve never have anyone close go through some shit like that...
Like I said my best friend that did it.. was the goodest kid in world, but as fucking teens or 20's we get down sometimes and some fucking how u try ONCE! one motherfucking time... and its a lifeturner... he almost fucking died from that shit... thanks god hes stronger than most and got out by himself and does nothing now and hes living a normal life..
but in those 2 years where he was addicted.. he slept in the streets, robbed old ladies, robbed houses and cars and would even kill to smoke heroin... he would also deal it.. so why would u ever feel bad for him or the person that sold it to him? why?
Why defend those bad ones ? instead of defending the goverment that is trying to protect the rest of the citizens.. that's all laws are made for? so if you're gonna say something back it up with logic arguments of WHY! they should have mercy on drug dealers?
It was his fault, I'm sorry. Your friend was not a victim of a system or a dealer, he made a bad decision and paid the price.
Yes, if a drug dealer kills somebody, that is murder, but drug dealing =/= murder, no matter how much you try to twist the matter.
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On June 25 2009 06:57 TheFoReveRwaR wrote:
Also imprisonment is a lot more expensive than capital punishment.
False.
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On June 25 2009 08:17 Lemonwalrus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 06:44 InfeSteD wrote:
The people that are talking about how bad the drug is have a fucking idea of how big of a deal this is!!! and the people fucking trying to compare tobacco and alcohol and weed, etc.. have no fucking clue of HOW BAD BADBADBABADBADBAD heroin is! or maybe they do but theyve never have anyone close go through some shit like that...
Like I said my best friend that did it.. was the goodest kid in world, but as fucking teens or 20's we get down sometimes and some fucking how u try ONCE! one motherfucking time... and its a lifeturner... he almost fucking died from that shit... thanks god hes stronger than most and got out by himself and does nothing now and hes living a normal life..
but in those 2 years where he was addicted.. he slept in the streets, robbed old ladies, robbed houses and cars and would even kill to smoke heroin... he would also deal it.. so why would u ever feel bad for him or the person that sold it to him? why?
Why defend those bad ones ? instead of defending the goverment that is trying to protect the rest of the citizens.. that's all laws are made for? so if you're gonna say something back it up with logic arguments of WHY! they should have mercy on drug dealers? It was his fault, I'm sorry. Your friend was not a victim of a system or a dealer, he made a bad decision and paid the price. Yes, if a drug dealer kills somebody, that is murder, but drug dealing =/= murder, no matter how much you try to twist the matter.
Brilliant deduction, sherlock. That's why they're convicted of drug dealing, not murder. The point is that it's as bad as murder so they still get a death sentence.
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On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right?
Straw man fallacy.
"A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting a superficially similar proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.[1] [2]"
(Source: Wikipedia)
First of all, there is no law that punishes people with the death sentence for swearing. And creating a hypothetical situation with a grossly exaggerated scenario isn't helping your cause either. Punishments, the death sentence in particular, are dependent on the severity of the crime.
I don't need to be an expert on narcotics to know that drugs are far more harmful than profanity. So comparing profanity with drug trafficking isn't reasonable. If they're both crimes then they both deserve the same enforcement of the punishment, but that doesn't mean they should both enforce the same punishment..
I have to agree with hixhix on this one. I'm all up for second chances, but if you're distributing a product that indirectly (and possibly directly) kills people then I see nothing wrong with the government imposing the death penalty.
On June 25 2009 08:18 Lemonwalrus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 06:57 TheFoReveRwaR wrote:
Also imprisonment is a lot more expensive than capital punishment. False.
False on your false.
Death penalty is more expensive in the United States because of the legislative process rather than the actual enforcement of the punishment. China doesn't follow the same rules.
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On June 25 2009 09:30 psion0011 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 08:17 Lemonwalrus wrote:On June 25 2009 06:44 InfeSteD wrote:
The people that are talking about how bad the drug is have a fucking idea of how big of a deal this is!!! and the people fucking trying to compare tobacco and alcohol and weed, etc.. have no fucking clue of HOW BAD BADBADBABADBADBAD heroin is! or maybe they do but theyve never have anyone close go through some shit like that...
Like I said my best friend that did it.. was the goodest kid in world, but as fucking teens or 20's we get down sometimes and some fucking how u try ONCE! one motherfucking time... and its a lifeturner... he almost fucking died from that shit... thanks god hes stronger than most and got out by himself and does nothing now and hes living a normal life..
but in those 2 years where he was addicted.. he slept in the streets, robbed old ladies, robbed houses and cars and would even kill to smoke heroin... he would also deal it.. so why would u ever feel bad for him or the person that sold it to him? why?
Why defend those bad ones ? instead of defending the goverment that is trying to protect the rest of the citizens.. that's all laws are made for? so if you're gonna say something back it up with logic arguments of WHY! they should have mercy on drug dealers? It was his fault, I'm sorry. Your friend was not a victim of a system or a dealer, he made a bad decision and paid the price. Yes, if a drug dealer kills somebody, that is murder, but drug dealing =/= murder, no matter how much you try to twist the matter. Brilliant deduction, sherlock. That's why they're convicted of drug dealing, not murder. The point is that it's as bad as murder so they still get a death sentence.
Psion are you that fucking daft? he was making the point to infested who thought otherwise. holy shit.
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Just to make it clear, I don't really care if those guys are sentenced to death or not. I don't know them. To me they are just some people on a photo, as harsh as this may sound.
In general though, I think death penalty is wrong. First of all, if there EVER is any error, you can't reverse the punishment or make up for it in any way. Secondly, for people who did some really sick stuff, e.g. serial killers, I'd even consider death penalty as punishment to be too light. Who knows what happens after death? Maybe it's not even bad, no matter what kind of person you were.
I also heavily disagree with all the "drug dealers kill so many people and ruin their families" guys. It's neither drug dealers nor drugs that's killing people or ruining their lives. It's the people who decide to take drugs who ruin their own lives and possibly the lives of others around them. Of course there are cases where people are forced into drug addiction to be afterwards forced into prostitution for example. But in those cases drug addiction can be freely replaced with any other form of pressure you can put on someone to force him into doing something.
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On June 25 2009 09:37 kefkalives wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 09:30 psion0011 wrote:On June 25 2009 08:17 Lemonwalrus wrote:On June 25 2009 06:44 InfeSteD wrote:
The people that are talking about how bad the drug is have a fucking idea of how big of a deal this is!!! and the people fucking trying to compare tobacco and alcohol and weed, etc.. have no fucking clue of HOW BAD BADBADBABADBADBAD heroin is! or maybe they do but theyve never have anyone close go through some shit like that...
Like I said my best friend that did it.. was the goodest kid in world, but as fucking teens or 20's we get down sometimes and some fucking how u try ONCE! one motherfucking time... and its a lifeturner... he almost fucking died from that shit... thanks god hes stronger than most and got out by himself and does nothing now and hes living a normal life..
but in those 2 years where he was addicted.. he slept in the streets, robbed old ladies, robbed houses and cars and would even kill to smoke heroin... he would also deal it.. so why would u ever feel bad for him or the person that sold it to him? why?
Why defend those bad ones ? instead of defending the goverment that is trying to protect the rest of the citizens.. that's all laws are made for? so if you're gonna say something back it up with logic arguments of WHY! they should have mercy on drug dealers? It was his fault, I'm sorry. Your friend was not a victim of a system or a dealer, he made a bad decision and paid the price. Yes, if a drug dealer kills somebody, that is murder, but drug dealing =/= murder, no matter how much you try to twist the matter. Brilliant deduction, sherlock. That's why they're convicted of drug dealing, not murder. The point is that it's as bad as murder so they still get a death sentence. Psion are you that fucking daft? he was making the point to infested who thought otherwise. holy shit.
Calm down there, no need for nerd rage. Point out for me in his post where he thought that. Also, learn to read between the lines.
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On June 25 2009 09:33 MayorITC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 02:35 intrigue wrote:On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-. so if swearing loudly was punishable by death, and you knew the punishment yet still swore, as long as you understood the consequence, there's nothing wrong right? Straw man fallacy. "A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting a superficially similar proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.[1] [2]" (Source: Wikipedia) First of all, there is no law that punishes people with the death sentence for swearing. And creating a hypothetical situation with a grossly exaggerated scenario isn't helping your cause either. Punishments, the death sentence in particular, are dependent on the severity of the crime. I don't need to be an expert on narcotics to know that drugs are far more harmful than profanity. So comparing profanity with drug trafficking isn't reasonable. If they're both crimes then they both deserve the same enforcement of the punishment, but that doesn't mean they should both enforce the same punishment.. I have to agree with hixhix on this one. I'm all up for second chances, but if you're distributing a product that indirectly (and possibly directly) kills people then I see nothing wrong with the government imposing the death penalty.
That is a really bad application of the the "straw man fallacy". He made a good analogy that countered the argument of the person who basically said "if its the law and you break it, its your fault and you deserve the punishment".
The counter-point was that, what if the law is ridiculous like "getting the death penalty for swearing". Basically, this is saying that just because its a law, doesn't mean that one deserves the punishment for breaking it.
Unless you believe that "breaking any law (however ridiculous) makes the person deserve the corresponding punishment", you need a stronger argument like:
The death-penalty for trafficking is a just law, so anyone breaking it deserves the punishment.
...
Anyways, the real debate is whether the death-penalty should be applied to drug-trafficking of heroin.
I definitely don't think it warrants the death-penalty. I think murder or rape in most cases is much more deserving of the death penalty. Murderers/rapists kill/hurt people in cold-blood. Selling heroin is much more indirect and I think its perfectly possible for someone who isn't capable of rape/murder to be a large-scale heroin trafficker. The Nigerian man is obviously in it for the money, probably aware of the fact that heroin ruins peoples lives and probably has some reason he still does it.
One plausible reason could be that he just doesn't care. Another plausible reason is that he knows that he is just a pawn in the game and even if he stopped selling heroin, it wouldn't make a difference. His boss would just find someone else to replace him and the supply/demand wouldn't change at all. This second reason is of course immoral but I don't think someone who is just greedy for money and distant from the effects of his actions (the people who are dieing/suffering due to heroin), should be given the death-penalty.
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China dont fuck around with drugs
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On June 25 2009 02:19 hixhix wrote:
It's the law, you break the law and you are punished, simple as that. Same to the case of two reporters sneaking into NK. I dont understand why people complaining about this. It's not like they don't know what would happen if they get caught. They take the risk, they know the consequence when things go wrong, stop crying that this is too harsh -.-
Obviously most of you living in a little bubble and know nothing about 3rd world countries where the population is huge, the level of education is so low and there are lots of fucked up shits every day. That's why the law must be so strict for this kind of crime. Heroin not only fucks up the addicts but also their families and people around. In Vietnam (and other 3rd world countries I guess), stories like the addicts killing people for little money (like 2$, yes, two US dollars) are on daily news. One drug dealer leads to many serious consequences and they deserve death penalty. I remember in Singapore's airport, they say it out loud in the speaker that, if you cross this door and you have .... grams of drugs, you'll face death penalty, this is the last chance to throw away any drug you have. Still, there are many thickhead drug dealers who tried their lucks and then whined about how strict the law was when they got caught.
The law is clear, you cross the line you're punished.
i definitely agree with this
i mean THEY KNOW WHT THEY ARE DOING, ITS NOT LIKE THEY THINK THEY ARE PLAYING GODAM TIDDLYWINKS OR SOMETHING.
dont take me wrong as the type of guy who enjoys watching people get killed, but when you know it is AGAINST THE LAW, ESPECIALYL IN PLACES LIKE ASIA WHERE DRUGS ARE CONSIDERED EXTREMELY ILLEGAL (e.g actors/stars have their careers ruined because they are caught smoking a joint) THEN DONT DO IT.
and if u have to, sorry but dont try to argue against it unless its legit
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On June 25 2009 09:33 MayorITC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 08:18 Lemonwalrus wrote:On June 25 2009 06:57 TheFoReveRwaR wrote:
Also imprisonment is a lot more expensive than capital punishment. False. False on your false. Death penalty is more expensive in the United States because of the legislative process rather than the actual enforcement of the punishment. China doesn't follow the same rules.
Oh yeah, forgot we were talking about Chinese death penalty.
Sorry for posting a crappy 1 word response to your post FW.
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Death penalty is fucked up, i don't care what anyone does. It's just wrong and uncivilized.
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On June 25 2009 06:56 Mystlord wrote:
I personally am not in favor of capital punishment, so I don't think that the death penalty will really solve anything. The worst part is that these two will probably get shot in the head as a method of execution. That's a pretty painful way to die.
How is getting shot in the head painful?
On June 25 2009 08:18 Lemonwalrus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 06:57 TheFoReveRwaR wrote:
Also imprisonment is a lot more expensive than capital punishment. False.
That is indeed false in the US because of all the court costs due to appeals and whatnot. I don't know if that's the case in China, though
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Osaka27149 Posts
You see, this piece of metal is launched at several hundred miles per hour, and it smashes through skin, tissue, and bone without pause.
Many bullets are designed to break apart on impact, shattering and creating several trails of destruction in the target.
That causes the pain. Fortunately the pain is rather short. Unless, of course, the person has poor aim.
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On June 25 2009 14:51 Manifesto7 wrote:
You see, this piece of metal is launched at several hundred miles per hour, and it smashes through skin, tissue, and bone without pause.
Many bullets are designed to break apart on impact, shattering and creating several trails of destruction in the target.
That causes the pain. Fortunately the pain is rather short. Unless, of course, the person has poor aim.
Yup very true, nervous transmisions of pain travel way faster than the speed of a bullet so you feel pain even if its only for .1 secs
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If there is demand, there will be supply..no matter how many you kill.
There will always be people willing to sell drugs, a way to escape extreme misery :O
the more rare a drug gets, the price only gets up..and it will attract extremely poor people, because one will always risk their lives for bringing food to the table if needed..would you let your children die if there was 30-40% unemployment where you lived?
Maybe this isnt the story of these persons, but maybe the story of the next drug-dealer (tho yes i know most drug dealers that deal heavier stuff than weed and badass punks most likely with few braincells left and aggressive temper)
But read my first sentence again and think about it ... cause nobodys fault really :O but i would never approve of death penalty, maybe us europeans are too nice or naiv, donno 
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On June 25 2009 04:43 Raithed wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 02:01 Integra wrote:
It's China, they kill people there for all kinds of reasons. LOL. thats like saying muslims get their hands chopped off for stealing.
Yes, yes they do. Stoned to death as well. They have charming jurisprudence.
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On June 25 2009 12:21 Lemonwalrus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 09:33 MayorITC wrote:On June 25 2009 08:18 Lemonwalrus wrote:On June 25 2009 06:57 TheFoReveRwaR wrote:
Also imprisonment is a lot more expensive than capital punishment. False. False on your false. Death penalty is more expensive in the United States because of the legislative process rather than the actual enforcement of the punishment. China doesn't follow the same rules. Oh yeah, forgot we were talking about Chinese death penalty. Sorry for posting a crappy 1 word response to your post FW.
You will never be forgiven.
I, true to my name, am instating a deep rooted ever lasting family feud.
My grandchilden will hate the name "Lemon Walrus" as much as I.
Have a nice day.
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Come on man, they KNEW it was china! Could have had some fun feeding sausages to poor north koreans at the border or just found a company with inhuman work conditions, killing a cpl houndred employees per year! But NO, they decided to smoke a jay, so its their own fuckin fault to get killed over that!
Seriously, some of the arguing going on in this thread is kinda simplistic. Fact is, the legal system of many asian countries (incl. China) is totally out of balance. Like others said, anything drug related will get you fucked heavily while other actions/policies that are about on the same level of disdain of human dignity are not even punished at all....
It just seems a very young and unsophisticated legal system, but surprisingly it seems a lot of people here at TL believe in the same (outdated) concepts it is based on. Newsflash: An extremely harsh penalty like death penalty does not help lowering the rates on that specific crime or deterring anybody from commiting that crime at all. In fact, it rather leads to an increase in crime because of the higher motivation for the criminals to do cover-up crimes and shit like that. If you already gave up your right to live, you have nothing left to lose.
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I'll pray for God to drug dealers in Brazil be sentenced to death.
Amen.
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Well i would like to say that i don't like drug dealers as much as everybody else, but being sentenced to death is too much. Let's see it this way: it is totally someones responsibility if he is doing drugs or not, not the dealers. If you want to do drugs, you will always be able to get some no matter what. Drug dealers are only 'smart people' who takes an advantage of someones stupidity and make money of it. There won't be any drug dealers if people weren't dumb enough to do drugs. Again it is totally your choice to do drugs, not the dealer's Why should he be punished for junkie's stupidity....
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On June 25 2009 16:14 TreK wrote:If there is demand, there will be supply..no matter how many you kill. There will always be people willing to sell drugs, a way to escape extreme misery :O the more rare a drug gets, the price only gets up..and it will attract extremely poor people, because one will always risk their lives for bringing food to the table if needed..would you let your children die if there was 30-40% unemployment where you lived? Maybe this isnt the story of these persons, but maybe the story of the next drug-dealer (tho yes i know most drug dealers that deal heavier stuff than weed and badass punks most likely with few braincells left and aggressive temper) But read my first sentence again and think about it ... cause nobodys fault really :O but i would never approve of death penalty, maybe us europeans are too nice or naiv, donno
There's nothing we can do, so we should just let drug dealers walk the streets. We should just let them sell drugs to kids, walk into schools uncontested, do whatever they want. Trying to stop them isn't going to change anything.
Oh wait that's retarded. There may always be people willing to screw themselves by taking, selling, and trafficking drugs but we don't have to help them do it. We can at least make it hard, make them think twice before they do it, maybe make them sweat a bit.
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There's nothing we can do, so we should just let drug dealers walk the streets. We should just let them sell drugs to kids, walk into schools uncontested, do whatever they want. Trying to stop them isn't going to change anything.
Oh wait that's retarded. There may always be people willing to screw themselves by taking, selling, and trafficking drugs but we don't have to help them do it. We can at least make it hard, make them think twice before they do it, maybe make them sweat a bit.
Ohh yeaaa so let's kill drug dealers when they get caught, because they deserve it..sorry but that is retarded. In prison, they won't be harming people.
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On June 26 2009 01:15 Ricjames wrote:
Well i would like to say that i don't like drug dealers as much as everybody else, but being sentenced to death is too much.
That's because you're accustomed to the legal systems of the western countries. If you grew up in China, you probably wouldn't care too much. Also, China might require more death penalties to act as deterrents so they can make sure that the other 1.3 billion people aren't out killing each other.
Let's see it this way: it is totally someones responsibility if he is doing drugs or not, not the dealers.
That's not true. It's not necessarily someone's fault for being ignorant of the effects of drugs. It is someone's fault for preying upon said ignorance. It's like scamming basically.
If you want to do drugs, you will always be able to get some no matter what.
True.
Drug dealers are only 'smart people' who takes an advantage of someones stupidity and make money of it.
That doesn't justify it... Preying upon someone's stupidity does not mean it is right. Isn't fraud a crime? Because last I checked, it is.
There won't be any drug dealers if people weren't dumb enough to do drugs
Again it is totally your choice to do drugs, not the dealer's Why should he be punished for junkie's stupidity....
Because we charge people with fraud last I checked. Or is it okay to have someone tell you they're selling tylenol, but it's really some unknown chemicals mixed together meant to get you addicted? Furthermore, this isn't simply fraud because drug trafficking affects the lives of many people ranging from the addicted junkies to their friends, parents, relatives, etc.
Now, taking your freedom of choice ideal, why shouldn't the traffickers get a death sentence? They made the decision, with the knowledge that they could be sentenced to death. Isn't it entirely their responsibility for making the decision and getting caught?
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Why should anyone get a death sentence?
Anyone demanding death sentence is just a murderer too.
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On June 26 2009 02:12 dnosrc wrote:
Why should anyone get a death sentence?
Because continuing to be a drain and a danger to society doesn't exactly help.
Look at rapists or child molesters, will they ever change? No, I would say not. Will they help our society? No... Will they cause harm and danger to others? Yes, in fact, a lot of harm, especially psychologically. So, what's the point of their life? Why should we keep these people, who can't be helped, around just so they can endanger our society?
Anyone demanding a death sentence is just a murderer too.
Hence why it is not any one person deciding if a death sentence should be handed out or not, it is either a panel of people or a society. =p And, as always, it depends on what you define as "murder."
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On June 25 2009 15:24 PaeZ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2009 14:51 Manifesto7 wrote:
You see, this piece of metal is launched at several hundred miles per hour, and it smashes through skin, tissue, and bone without pause.
Many bullets are designed to break apart on impact, shattering and creating several trails of destruction in the target.
That causes the pain. Fortunately the pain is rather short. Unless, of course, the person has poor aim. Yup very true, nervous transmisions of pain travel way faster than the speed of a bullet so you feel pain even if its only for .1 secs
But then again, you are dead right after so it doesn't really matter that much. It's much worse if you get shot in the arm and have to keep feeling that pain continually. If you get shot in the head, chances are that you won't stay alive long enough to cry out.
I don't like their use of the death penalty but as people brought up, there are too many people in China already anyway and if they are serious about stopping the drug trade, executing someone is enough to deter many other people away from dealing drugs. It's always a trade-off between how much money you can make from drugs and what the consequences are. I feel like governments should just allow the drug trade as a controlled substance like tobacco or alcohol and tax it extravagantly. That way, they can bring in more revenue while gaining control over the violent drug cartels and take away all their power.
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The population is just too high for them to jail people like these drug dealers, maybe china should deport them instead. Does anyone know what the punishment would be for trafficking in Nigeria? I know in Australia you can get up to 30 years in prison for trafficking which is still pretty fukin bad IMO.
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