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Please go to the Gun Thread to discuss gun laws in the USA, and related topics. Do not use this thread. |
On June 13 2016 00:37 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2016 00:27 ForTehDarkseid wrote:On June 13 2016 00:22 maartendq wrote:On June 12 2016 23:52 ForTehDarkseid wrote:On June 12 2016 22:55 maartendq wrote:On June 12 2016 21:38 ForTehDarkseid wrote:
@micronesia, you can correct me if I am mistaken, but LGBT is a criminal offense in a Muslim countries. In Asia and CIS, those communities are heavily targeted for "propaganding", but in most cases it's just sugar-coating the masses' ignorance and intolerance. Trying to solve the problem the soft way (by education and public restrictions) didn't really help, more strict regulations should be imposed.
I am a strong advocate of removing administrative penalties or fines entirely in a favor of straight jail time for any harm caused on a homophobic basis. As the things stand right now, international courts can't do anything against those corrupted countries, while authorities simply don't give a shit about such nuances, or even worse, support those actions indirectly. And what makes LGBT people more special than other minority groups that the people who openly don't like LGBT deserve special, harsher punishment than if those people, say, openly don't like Asian people? It's ironic and slightly disturbing how in the US some liberal people seem to think that if people can't be convinced to be liberal the soft way, the state should just enforce it manu militari. For advocating tolerance, US liberals seem very intolerant of people who do not share their views. When animals misbehave, some measures must be issued. Last time I checked, racism didn't tie into religion or social propaganda nor does it really prevalent across the globe. Anti-nationalism is mostly entirely different thing. "People who do not agree with my world view are animals who should be subject to punishment for not sharing my world view". This is essentially what you're saying. I am saying LGBT-haters are animals. When it comes down to bigotry, there isn't a thing like a different world view for any civilized being. I am feeling that Muslim lobby has already won when people claim that there could be another opinion on this matter. So you consider pretty much all muslims and a large portion of christians to be animals?
What kind of arguement this was supposed to mean? If you hate homosexuals silently, you are fine. If you cause harm actively, you are an animal. The problem with religion afaik is that in some Muslim countries LGBT is illegal with grave consequences carried by the state up to execution. If you support this, you are an animal.
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On June 13 2016 00:40 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:I read the OP but not this entire thread yet... has it been established that this is a hate crime/ that the club was targeted because it was a gay nightclub, or is there a chance that that part is a coincidence? I fear that it was targeted on purpose but I'm not sure 
First of all i want to emphasize that the attacker was muslim, if you missed that. Second, apparently the father of the attacker said that his son was very angered by two men kissing in front of him and his familly during some festival. I dont know how long before the attacking that took place.
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On June 13 2016 00:40 hfglgg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2016 00:37 GoTuNk! wrote:On June 13 2016 00:27 ForTehDarkseid wrote:On June 13 2016 00:22 maartendq wrote:On June 12 2016 23:52 ForTehDarkseid wrote:On June 12 2016 22:55 maartendq wrote:On June 12 2016 21:38 ForTehDarkseid wrote:
@micronesia, you can correct me if I am mistaken, but LGBT is a criminal offense in a Muslim countries. In Asia and CIS, those communities are heavily targeted for "propaganding", but in most cases it's just sugar-coating the masses' ignorance and intolerance. Trying to solve the problem the soft way (by education and public restrictions) didn't really help, more strict regulations should be imposed.
I am a strong advocate of removing administrative penalties or fines entirely in a favor of straight jail time for any harm caused on a homophobic basis. As the things stand right now, international courts can't do anything against those corrupted countries, while authorities simply don't give a shit about such nuances, or even worse, support those actions indirectly. And what makes LGBT people more special than other minority groups that the people who openly don't like LGBT deserve special, harsher punishment than if those people, say, openly don't like Asian people? It's ironic and slightly disturbing how in the US some liberal people seem to think that if people can't be convinced to be liberal the soft way, the state should just enforce it manu militari. For advocating tolerance, US liberals seem very intolerant of people who do not share their views. When animals misbehave, some measures must be issued. Last time I checked, racism didn't tie into religion or social propaganda nor does it really prevalent across the globe. Anti-nationalism is mostly entirely different thing. "People who do not agree with my world view are animals who should be subject to punishment for not sharing my world view". This is essentially what you're saying. I am saying LGBT-haters are animals. When it comes down to bigotry, there isn't a thing like a different world view for any civilized being. I am feeling that Muslim lobby has already won when people claim that there could be another opinion on this matter. So you consider pretty much all muslims and a large portion of christians to be animals? i would say so. either use your brain or dont do anything at all and keep away from less primitive folk.
I challenge you to travel by yourself in a Muslim country (such as Malaysia or Indonesia) and stay with locals. While you won't agree with many of their views, you'll soon notice that those people by and large want the same things we do: a peaceful existence and jobs that allow them to provide for their family.
What you'll also realise before long is that these people view some of our views the same way as we do some of theirs: as backward. The world would be a lot more peaceful is people stopped viewing their world view as the gold standard the rest of the planet should live up to, and seek to impose it upon others by whatever means necessary.
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On June 13 2016 00:40 KT_Elwood wrote:
NRA:
"See what happens if you are a liberal LGBT-Supporter and anti-Guns ? No one in the club stopped the attacker. This could never have happend in a Texas sport's bar ! Vote Trump !"
Seriouly your US-guys are NUTS.
And to all the ideologists...fucking stop caring about WHO has been murdered. It were 50 People, not 50 icarnations of gay-jesus christ. 50 people, 50 too many.
Stop labeling this stuff as hatecrime. If you don't stop marking people as "diffrent" from the norm, and force everyone to accept them.......being gay will never be accepted as normal.
It's fucking sad, don't let it be political.
That's only because the NRA knows the attention span for the average American voter is quite limited. This country is paranoid about everything, and the news media fear mongers everything. The NRA knows by next week most people in the US will forget that AR-15's have been used in mass shootings and being paranoid will think the government is about to take their freedom. Which is stupid. The NRA knows that and gun sales rocket.
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Wasn't the murder from the previous night also at a concert in Orlando, Florida?
The killer there had multiple weapons and extra ammunition which could have also led to many more deaths if he wasn't stopped immediately.
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On June 13 2016 00:47 opisska wrote:Speaking of reddit, they have now this nice little feature where people can make a LR of the world - I don't know how useful it is when it seems to be limited to a couple of contributors, but might be worth watching if you are interested in these events: https://www.reddit.com/live/x2tjnk7gg9wa
you can use this bookmarklet to stream any reddit thread:+ Show Spoiler +javascript function stream() {var s = window.location.href.split('/');var id = s[s.indexOf('comments')+1];if(s.indexOf('comments') != -1) { window.location.href = 'http://reddit-stream.com/comments/' + id; }})();
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what do you even consider "winning"? escalating a conflict will radicalize more people.
this is true but it's only half the truth. if it were the whole truth no war would ever end. and wars most definitely do end.
you are right, he insisted on calling it "total warfare" instead of genocide
he directly stated that the "destruction of the civilian population is generally a prerequisite to victory in modern warfare", directly attributed to the war on islamic terror
well looking at modern history that is an undeniable fact in total war situations
jihadis view themselves as being in a total war
we do not
there is the difference and there is the difficulty
people with no clue about german history saying the US won an ideological war by exterminating the civilian population is simply wrong, which makes it a false argument.
i know quite a bit about german history. what i'm saying is 100% accurate and it's not a judgment on germany today or on you, so there's no need to be so defensive about it.
in your shallow interpretation of history, there were always more factors at play other than who could kill the most "opponents"
there are certain physical realities to conflict that the west, with its current perceived long history of avoiding general warfare on its own soil, has forgotten. you've forgotten it, for example.
there are more factors in play yes, but the deciding factor has almost always been physical domination.
you still don't seem to grasp that nazism in germany is something completely different than terrorism
there are more similarities between nazim and jihadism than there are differences. both are eschatological in nature, both are based on triumphs of the will, both are caste systems, both are predicated on the superiority of violence demonstrating the moral superiority of violence, the similarities go on and on.
No the aryan race concept was not a huge factor, otherwise people like Göbbels Himmler and Hitler would have never had any say in anything. It was a shallow facade, nothing more.
this is simply wrong. and of course aryan race ideology was self-serving to those who rose to power on the back of it.
Cultural militarism was not that big, it had culminated in a peak at the outset of WW1 and underwent a revival in WW2 but it was focussed on "duty"/"obedience to authority/chain of command" and national exceptionalism, not on bloodlust for fights, per se.
this is also simply wrong. cultural militarism dominated japanese society from the sino-japanese wars of the late 19th century restoration to 1945. there was a very brief period in the 1920s where it seemed on the wane, and then it came back stronger than ever.
cultural militarism and bloodlust for fights are not synonyms. cultural militarism is more than bloodlust. in any case the japense empire was at war far more often than not from the period of 1881-1945 and was continuously at war from 1931 to 1945. if it was not lusting for fights it sure seemed to get into a large number of them.
The big reason for WW2 was versailles and how WW1 had scratched the ego of the nation.
and aryan supremacy and the stabbed in the back myth had nothing to do with that ego, with german resentment after WWI?
you're telling half-truths and leaving out the more important half.
Aryan supremacism was the de jure ideology but not in fact.
it could not have become the de jure ideology if it was not in fact agreeable to the society. it was very agreeable. there have been multiple extensive histories written about the influence of aryan supremacism on german culture and society in the 19th and early 20th centuries before 1933.
National exceptionalism was more important to the day to day war effort motivation than any race concept,
germany as the national vehicle for the aryan race. a nation of the race was the concept, the two were inextricably linked.
that is why japanese, mongolese, arabs and north africans (revolting against british and french occupation) were pragmatically included in the war effort: making germany great was the bigger motivator for the fighting men in practice than racism.
the nazis said the japanese were the aryans of asia.
arabs and north africans were viewed as useful tools and future slave labor was to be their reward for siding with germany against france and britain.
making germany great as the rightful aryan ruler of mankind was the motivator. germany deserved to be the ruler of the world because germany was the purest and best bastion of the aryan race.
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On June 13 2016 00:54 maartendq wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2016 00:40 hfglgg wrote:On June 13 2016 00:37 GoTuNk! wrote:On June 13 2016 00:27 ForTehDarkseid wrote:On June 13 2016 00:22 maartendq wrote:On June 12 2016 23:52 ForTehDarkseid wrote:On June 12 2016 22:55 maartendq wrote:On June 12 2016 21:38 ForTehDarkseid wrote:
@micronesia, you can correct me if I am mistaken, but LGBT is a criminal offense in a Muslim countries. In Asia and CIS, those communities are heavily targeted for "propaganding", but in most cases it's just sugar-coating the masses' ignorance and intolerance. Trying to solve the problem the soft way (by education and public restrictions) didn't really help, more strict regulations should be imposed.
I am a strong advocate of removing administrative penalties or fines entirely in a favor of straight jail time for any harm caused on a homophobic basis. As the things stand right now, international courts can't do anything against those corrupted countries, while authorities simply don't give a shit about such nuances, or even worse, support those actions indirectly. And what makes LGBT people more special than other minority groups that the people who openly don't like LGBT deserve special, harsher punishment than if those people, say, openly don't like Asian people? It's ironic and slightly disturbing how in the US some liberal people seem to think that if people can't be convinced to be liberal the soft way, the state should just enforce it manu militari. For advocating tolerance, US liberals seem very intolerant of people who do not share their views. When animals misbehave, some measures must be issued. Last time I checked, racism didn't tie into religion or social propaganda nor does it really prevalent across the globe. Anti-nationalism is mostly entirely different thing. "People who do not agree with my world view are animals who should be subject to punishment for not sharing my world view". This is essentially what you're saying. I am saying LGBT-haters are animals. When it comes down to bigotry, there isn't a thing like a different world view for any civilized being. I am feeling that Muslim lobby has already won when people claim that there could be another opinion on this matter. So you consider pretty much all muslims and a large portion of christians to be animals? i would say so. either use your brain or dont do anything at all and keep away from less primitive folk. I challenge you to travel by yourself in a Muslim country (such as Malaysia or Indonesia) and stay with locals. While you won't agree with many of their views, you'll soon notice that those people by and large want the same things we do: a peaceful existence and jobs that allow them to provide for their family. What you'll also realise before long is that these people view some of our views the same way as we do some of theirs: as backward. The world would be a lot more peaceful is people stopped viewing their world view as the gold standard the rest of the planet should live up to, and seek to impose it upon others by whatever means necessary.
well they can have their views, i just want to be anywhere near their views and the relevancy of their views is minimal because they are detrimental to economic and scientific progress. they are poor because their views are inferior. tough luck, better get superior views or suffer in your own filth.
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On June 13 2016 00:55 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2016 00:40 KT_Elwood wrote:
NRA:
"See what happens if you are a liberal LGBT-Supporter and anti-Guns ? No one in the club stopped the attacker. This could never have happend in a Texas sport's bar ! Vote Trump !"
Seriouly your US-guys are NUTS.
And to all the ideologists...fucking stop caring about WHO has been murdered. It were 50 People, not 50 icarnations of gay-jesus christ. 50 people, 50 too many.
Stop labeling this stuff as hatecrime. If you don't stop marking people as "diffrent" from the norm, and force everyone to accept them.......being gay will never be accepted as normal.
It's fucking sad, don't let it be political. That's only because the NRA knows the attention span for the average American voter is quite limited. This country is paranoid about everything, and the news media fear mongers everything. The NRA knows by next week most people in the US will forget that AR-15's have been used in mass shootings and being paranoid will think the government is about to take their freedom. Which is stupid. The NRA knows that and gun sales rocket.
I think you're confusing "forget" with "disagree with my conclusion on the situation." Until today the most deaths from a gun massacre in the US were not from an AR-15. They were from a handgun at Virginia Tech. In a mass shooting situation where only the shooter(s) has a gun until police arrive, a handgun is just as effective as an AR-15.
Considering their long-held antipathy to the idea of gun confiscation I would suggest that the attention span of the American voter is quite unlimited, and you are once again confusing disagreement with your opinion with something else.
It also doesn't help your argument that Democrats' statements that they don't want gun confiscation are completely unconvincing, in light of their repeated legislative proposals to take guns away from certain classes of people, and numerous other examples that belie assurances that gun confiscation is not the goal.
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On June 13 2016 01:03 hfglgg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2016 00:54 maartendq wrote:On June 13 2016 00:40 hfglgg wrote:On June 13 2016 00:37 GoTuNk! wrote:On June 13 2016 00:27 ForTehDarkseid wrote:On June 13 2016 00:22 maartendq wrote:On June 12 2016 23:52 ForTehDarkseid wrote:On June 12 2016 22:55 maartendq wrote:On June 12 2016 21:38 ForTehDarkseid wrote:
@micronesia, you can correct me if I am mistaken, but LGBT is a criminal offense in a Muslim countries. In Asia and CIS, those communities are heavily targeted for "propaganding", but in most cases it's just sugar-coating the masses' ignorance and intolerance. Trying to solve the problem the soft way (by education and public restrictions) didn't really help, more strict regulations should be imposed.
I am a strong advocate of removing administrative penalties or fines entirely in a favor of straight jail time for any harm caused on a homophobic basis. As the things stand right now, international courts can't do anything against those corrupted countries, while authorities simply don't give a shit about such nuances, or even worse, support those actions indirectly. And what makes LGBT people more special than other minority groups that the people who openly don't like LGBT deserve special, harsher punishment than if those people, say, openly don't like Asian people? It's ironic and slightly disturbing how in the US some liberal people seem to think that if people can't be convinced to be liberal the soft way, the state should just enforce it manu militari. For advocating tolerance, US liberals seem very intolerant of people who do not share their views. When animals misbehave, some measures must be issued. Last time I checked, racism didn't tie into religion or social propaganda nor does it really prevalent across the globe. Anti-nationalism is mostly entirely different thing. "People who do not agree with my world view are animals who should be subject to punishment for not sharing my world view". This is essentially what you're saying. I am saying LGBT-haters are animals. When it comes down to bigotry, there isn't a thing like a different world view for any civilized being. I am feeling that Muslim lobby has already won when people claim that there could be another opinion on this matter. So you consider pretty much all muslims and a large portion of christians to be animals? i would say so. either use your brain or dont do anything at all and keep away from less primitive folk. I challenge you to travel by yourself in a Muslim country (such as Malaysia or Indonesia) and stay with locals. While you won't agree with many of their views, you'll soon notice that those people by and large want the same things we do: a peaceful existence and jobs that allow them to provide for their family. What you'll also realise before long is that these people view some of our views the same way as we do some of theirs: as backward. The world would be a lot more peaceful is people stopped viewing their world view as the gold standard the rest of the planet should live up to, and seek to impose it upon others by whatever means necessary. well they can have their views, i just want to be anywhere near their views and the relevancy of their views is minimal because they are detrimental to economic and scientific progress. they are poor because their views are inferior. tough luck, better get superior views or suffer in your own filth.
Do you call yourself a liberal?
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I don't see how a handgun is just as effective as an AR-15, its not as powerful, it doesn't carry as much ammo and it doesn't have a higher fire rate. The majority of the mass shootings that i remember have almost all used an AR-15, that weapon is used for only one thing and that is mass killing, how you can buy that legally i'll never understand.
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On June 13 2016 01:05 NukeD wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2016 01:03 hfglgg wrote:On June 13 2016 00:54 maartendq wrote:On June 13 2016 00:40 hfglgg wrote:On June 13 2016 00:37 GoTuNk! wrote:On June 13 2016 00:27 ForTehDarkseid wrote:On June 13 2016 00:22 maartendq wrote:On June 12 2016 23:52 ForTehDarkseid wrote:On June 12 2016 22:55 maartendq wrote:On June 12 2016 21:38 ForTehDarkseid wrote:
@micronesia, you can correct me if I am mistaken, but LGBT is a criminal offense in a Muslim countries. In Asia and CIS, those communities are heavily targeted for "propaganding", but in most cases it's just sugar-coating the masses' ignorance and intolerance. Trying to solve the problem the soft way (by education and public restrictions) didn't really help, more strict regulations should be imposed.
I am a strong advocate of removing administrative penalties or fines entirely in a favor of straight jail time for any harm caused on a homophobic basis. As the things stand right now, international courts can't do anything against those corrupted countries, while authorities simply don't give a shit about such nuances, or even worse, support those actions indirectly. And what makes LGBT people more special than other minority groups that the people who openly don't like LGBT deserve special, harsher punishment than if those people, say, openly don't like Asian people? It's ironic and slightly disturbing how in the US some liberal people seem to think that if people can't be convinced to be liberal the soft way, the state should just enforce it manu militari. For advocating tolerance, US liberals seem very intolerant of people who do not share their views. When animals misbehave, some measures must be issued. Last time I checked, racism didn't tie into religion or social propaganda nor does it really prevalent across the globe. Anti-nationalism is mostly entirely different thing. "People who do not agree with my world view are animals who should be subject to punishment for not sharing my world view". This is essentially what you're saying. I am saying LGBT-haters are animals. When it comes down to bigotry, there isn't a thing like a different world view for any civilized being. I am feeling that Muslim lobby has already won when people claim that there could be another opinion on this matter. So you consider pretty much all muslims and a large portion of christians to be animals? i would say so. either use your brain or dont do anything at all and keep away from less primitive folk. I challenge you to travel by yourself in a Muslim country (such as Malaysia or Indonesia) and stay with locals. While you won't agree with many of their views, you'll soon notice that those people by and large want the same things we do: a peaceful existence and jobs that allow them to provide for their family. What you'll also realise before long is that these people view some of our views the same way as we do some of theirs: as backward. The world would be a lot more peaceful is people stopped viewing their world view as the gold standard the rest of the planet should live up to, and seek to impose it upon others by whatever means necessary. well they can have their views, i just want to be anywhere near their views and the relevancy of their views is minimal because they are detrimental to economic and scientific progress. they are poor because their views are inferior. tough luck, better get superior views or suffer in your own filth. Do you call yourself a liberal?
i am the ultimate liberal. everyone can do whatever he wants as long as he doesnt forcefully press his worldview onto others. this includes children btw.
guess how far you get when you cant indoctrinate your children or do a bit of fear mongering with a funnily explicit description of "hell".
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On June 13 2016 01:03 hfglgg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2016 00:54 maartendq wrote:On June 13 2016 00:40 hfglgg wrote:On June 13 2016 00:37 GoTuNk! wrote:On June 13 2016 00:27 ForTehDarkseid wrote:On June 13 2016 00:22 maartendq wrote:On June 12 2016 23:52 ForTehDarkseid wrote:On June 12 2016 22:55 maartendq wrote:On June 12 2016 21:38 ForTehDarkseid wrote:
@micronesia, you can correct me if I am mistaken, but LGBT is a criminal offense in a Muslim countries. In Asia and CIS, those communities are heavily targeted for "propaganding", but in most cases it's just sugar-coating the masses' ignorance and intolerance. Trying to solve the problem the soft way (by education and public restrictions) didn't really help, more strict regulations should be imposed.
I am a strong advocate of removing administrative penalties or fines entirely in a favor of straight jail time for any harm caused on a homophobic basis. As the things stand right now, international courts can't do anything against those corrupted countries, while authorities simply don't give a shit about such nuances, or even worse, support those actions indirectly. And what makes LGBT people more special than other minority groups that the people who openly don't like LGBT deserve special, harsher punishment than if those people, say, openly don't like Asian people? It's ironic and slightly disturbing how in the US some liberal people seem to think that if people can't be convinced to be liberal the soft way, the state should just enforce it manu militari. For advocating tolerance, US liberals seem very intolerant of people who do not share their views. When animals misbehave, some measures must be issued. Last time I checked, racism didn't tie into religion or social propaganda nor does it really prevalent across the globe. Anti-nationalism is mostly entirely different thing. "People who do not agree with my world view are animals who should be subject to punishment for not sharing my world view". This is essentially what you're saying. I am saying LGBT-haters are animals. When it comes down to bigotry, there isn't a thing like a different world view for any civilized being. I am feeling that Muslim lobby has already won when people claim that there could be another opinion on this matter. So you consider pretty much all muslims and a large portion of christians to be animals? i would say so. either use your brain or dont do anything at all and keep away from less primitive folk. I challenge you to travel by yourself in a Muslim country (such as Malaysia or Indonesia) and stay with locals. While you won't agree with many of their views, you'll soon notice that those people by and large want the same things we do: a peaceful existence and jobs that allow them to provide for their family. What you'll also realise before long is that these people view some of our views the same way as we do some of theirs: as backward. The world would be a lot more peaceful is people stopped viewing their world view as the gold standard the rest of the planet should live up to, and seek to impose it upon others by whatever means necessary. well they can have their views, i just want to be anywhere near their views and the relevancy of their views is minimal because they are detrimental to economic and scientific progress. they are poor because their views are inferior. tough luck, better get superior views or suffer in your own filth.
The "views" that people have are very strongly formed by the culture where they were raised. I could tell you that even if I hadn't been reading any research about that - just look around you and you will find that people in our countries hold a huge set of views that are completely irrational and founded only in tradition that has been passed on them during their lifetimes. It seems to be worse with older people, but it's only because their set of absurd views is more different from yours. If you want a universal starter on this, I can suggest for example trying to talk with people about incest between two consenting adults (and doing so with an open mind). Or you can just sit down and investigate which view you hold are completely irrational. You might be up for a great surprise, but only if you really get into it with an open mind.
Other things I would like to mention is, that the reality in Muslim countries is both better and worse than many people thing. It's better in that not only most of Muslim's are just normal people like you and me, but many Muslim societies have a culture that is very friendly, caring about their relatives and neighbourhs and in general very peaceful. I don't think it's anyhow deeply related to Islam itself, it just happens that Islam is dominant in places with such culture. Then, on the other hand, the same ordinary folks in many Muslim countries do hold these extremely medieval views of things - that's the worse part. They are not going around and burning rainbow flags, because there simply aren't any openly gay people in their village, but they would be sternly against their children engaging in any of that. And many other things work there very differently from what we would consider acceptable, to very varied levels ... but it doesn't come up as hate or barbarism, it's just the way their societies work.
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United States24510 Posts
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On June 13 2016 00:51 ForTehDarkseid wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2016 00:37 GoTuNk! wrote:On June 13 2016 00:27 ForTehDarkseid wrote:On June 13 2016 00:22 maartendq wrote:On June 12 2016 23:52 ForTehDarkseid wrote:On June 12 2016 22:55 maartendq wrote:On June 12 2016 21:38 ForTehDarkseid wrote:
@micronesia, you can correct me if I am mistaken, but LGBT is a criminal offense in a Muslim countries. In Asia and CIS, those communities are heavily targeted for "propaganding", but in most cases it's just sugar-coating the masses' ignorance and intolerance. Trying to solve the problem the soft way (by education and public restrictions) didn't really help, more strict regulations should be imposed.
I am a strong advocate of removing administrative penalties or fines entirely in a favor of straight jail time for any harm caused on a homophobic basis. As the things stand right now, international courts can't do anything against those corrupted countries, while authorities simply don't give a shit about such nuances, or even worse, support those actions indirectly. And what makes LGBT people more special than other minority groups that the people who openly don't like LGBT deserve special, harsher punishment than if those people, say, openly don't like Asian people? It's ironic and slightly disturbing how in the US some liberal people seem to think that if people can't be convinced to be liberal the soft way, the state should just enforce it manu militari. For advocating tolerance, US liberals seem very intolerant of people who do not share their views. When animals misbehave, some measures must be issued. Last time I checked, racism didn't tie into religion or social propaganda nor does it really prevalent across the globe. Anti-nationalism is mostly entirely different thing. "People who do not agree with my world view are animals who should be subject to punishment for not sharing my world view". This is essentially what you're saying. I am saying LGBT-haters are animals. When it comes down to bigotry, there isn't a thing like a different world view for any civilized being. I am feeling that Muslim lobby has already won when people claim that there could be another opinion on this matter. So you consider pretty much all muslims and a large portion of christians to be animals? What kind of arguement this was supposed to mean? If you hate homosexuals silently, you are fine. If you cause harm actively, you are an animal. The problem with religion afaik is that in some Muslim countries LGBT is illegal with grave consequences carried by the state up to execution. If you support this, you are an animal.
Exactly, I hate this reinforcement that people have to stress that this doesn't represent all Muslims. While I do not argue that all Muslims are extremists and violent people, most Muslims however, condone the actions and hate homosexuals and women. It is the culture and the religious views that helps facilitate these extreme individuals.
Instead of safeguarding Muslims after every radical Islamic attack, we should hold more "moderate" Muslims accountable. Moderate Muslims need to be pillars of their communities to shift and reform their religion to Western standards in order to conform with the civilized world.
Islam simply has not been through the reforms and strife that the other Judaic religions have. Even the Catholic Church has made great strides in recent years in order to become more acceptable in the modern era. Islam needs to be held more accountable as a religion.
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If any country doesn't tolerate modern human rights world-view, we shouldn't tolerate theirs. There shouldn't be any kind of advocates in the open, it's the number one rule of the business. Respect can be only mutual. The problem is when huge money involved, people don't get a slightly fuck about morals and other peoples' lives in general. Only the surge of public awareness can help the things.
Leniency and tolerance just makes it harder to undone.
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On June 13 2016 00:52 NukeD wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2016 00:40 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:I read the OP but not this entire thread yet... has it been established that this is a hate crime/ that the club was targeted because it was a gay nightclub, or is there a chance that that part is a coincidence? I fear that it was targeted on purpose but I'm not sure First of all i want to emphasize that the attacker was muslim, if you missed that. Second, apparently the father of the attacker said that his son was very angered by two men kissing in front of him and his familly during some festival. I dont know how long before the attacking that took place.
Okay thanks  I'm more upset with the fact that this is probably a hate crime than with the religion of the assailant, considering American hate crimes are committed by all different groups of people. The next ten (and previous ten) anti-gay laws and crimes are committed by Christians and/or wealthy politicians, so prejudice is unfortunately ubiquitous and not restricted to Islam.
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EPT
