|
Please go to the Gun Thread to discuss gun laws in the USA, and related topics. Do not use this thread. |
On June 12 2016 23:57 DeepElemBlues wrote:
Fighting terrorism makes more terrorists (which isn't true but whatever, fighting terrorism and not winning is what makes more terrorists)
Not fighting terrorism makes more terrorists as the winning side is the attractive side
Well gentlemen if those are the options looks like there's nothing we can do which seems not correct to me
what do you even consider "winning"? escalating a conflict will radicalize more people.
On June 12 2016 23:57 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +(xdaunt does it for many years now, several times on this forum stating that only the genocide of the islamic arabs can solve the middle eastern conflict favorably for the west) I highly highly doubt that xdaunt has ever said anything about killing a large proportion of the world's Arab Muslim population
you are right, he insisted on calling it "total warfare" instead of genocide
he directly stated that the "destruction of the civilian population is generally a prerequisite to victory in modern warfare", directly attributed to the war on islamic terror
On June 12 2016 23:57 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +there are to my mind several points those people miss who are always employing this false argument it's not a false argument though
people with no clue about german history saying the US won an ideological war by exterminating the civilian population is simply wrong, which makes it a false argument.
On June 12 2016 23:57 DeepElemBlues wrote:
for 99% of human history it was the truest argument in existence, it worked time and time again
in your shallow interpretation of history, there were always more factors at play other than who could kill the most "opponents"
On June 12 2016 23:57 DeepElemBlues wrote:
but today we think we're better because we don't sack cities, kill everybody or sell them into slavery, and sow the fields with salt
there are ways to fight that don't involve leveling cities that could be as effective as what we did to nazism but they involve larger amounts of time, money, and men than we are willing to expend
you still don't seem to grasp that nazism in germany is something completely different than terrorism
On June 12 2016 23:57 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +1. perception of symmetry of conflict: ww2 was a grand struggle of "equal" nations, all "relevant" participants were nice, white, european and respectful killing each other to prove national supremacy well that's not accurate at all. japan says hello for one.
japan is irrelevant for the question if total war was the reason nazism got replaced by a relatively peaceful stable democratic system, japan had 0 influence of the european theater of war, and even if it were:
the perception of symmetry of conflict extended to japen aswell, it was a sovereign nation state, with a form of government accepted by all other state actors, there were diplomatic channels and general "likeness" of combat
On June 12 2016 23:57 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +2. perception of cultural scope: the motivation to fight was seen as a very small part of cultural identity and there was no fear from germans losing their cultural identity, if they lose the war. they feared retribution for the atrocities they commited (mostly in eastern europe) but the french german wars and ww1 showed: life goes on, there are bigger things than those (almost regularly scheduled) national comparison contests that's not accurate either, cultural identity was a huge factor in both germany and japan. the aryan race concept was huge in late 19th century and early 20th century germany, cultural militarism was just as huge in japan at the same time. if they were small parts of german and japanese cultural identity the second world war would not have happened the way it did if it happened at all. the diminishing of their importance to german and japanese cultural identity is directly linked to the material destruction of their societies in the war. nothing focuses the attention on what you fucked up than getting your ass kicked within an inch of your life. but most people don't want to do that to muslims and rightly so, firstly because jihadism is not the dominant ideology of muslims the way aryan supremacism was for germans (yes, it was) or cultural militarism for japanese. so another way must be found to cause muslims attracted to jihadism to reconsider their worldview. the way it was done with the USSR was to live better than they did, and let their people know it, and the weight of the system collapsed on itself eventually. both sides had similar views on what constituted living well. it was a materialistic contest at heart, the west was better at materialism for the masses than the USSR. but there is more divergence between what a westerner thinks of as living well and what a jihadi thinks of as living well. it is not a materialistic contest at heart. perhaps the only solution is to let jihadis run wild in muslim countries and simply try to quarantine them there, during the last 15 years worldwide muslim support for terrorism has gone way down because the main victims of jihadis have been other muslims, not americans or other western non-muslims. jihadis seem to have big trouble ruling territory through any way but force and fear, eventually the people being ruled that way are through with putting up with that and rebel.
No the aryan race concept was not a huge factor, otherwise people like Göbbels Himmler and Hitler would have never had any say in anything. It was a shallow facade, nothing more.
Cultural militarism was not that big, it had culminated in a peak at the outset of WW1 and underwent a revival in WW2 but it was focussed on "duty"/"obedience to authority/chain of command" and national exceptionalism, not on bloodlust for fights, per se.
The big reason for WW2 was versailles and how WW1 had scratched the ego of the nation.
Aryan supremacism was the de jure ideology but not in fact. National exceptionalism was more important to the day to day war effort motivation than any race concept, that is why japanese, mongolese, arabs and north africans (revolting against british and french occupation) were pragmatically included in the war effort: making germany great was the bigger motivator for the fighting men in practice than racism.
The rest of your post is pretty agreeable.
|
On June 12 2016 23:52 ForTehDarkseid wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2016 22:55 maartendq wrote:On June 12 2016 21:38 ForTehDarkseid wrote:
@micronesia, you can correct me if I am mistaken, but LGBT is a criminal offense in a Muslim countries. In Asia and CIS, those communities are heavily targeted for "propaganding", but in most cases it's just sugar-coating the masses' ignorance and intolerance. Trying to solve the problem the soft way (by education and public restrictions) didn't really help, more strict regulations should be imposed.
I am a strong advocate of removing administrative penalties or fines entirely in a favor of straight jail time for any harm caused on a homophobic basis. As the things stand right now, international courts can't do anything against those corrupted countries, while authorities simply don't give a shit about such nuances, or even worse, support those actions indirectly. And what makes LGBT people more special than other minority groups that the people who openly don't like LGBT deserve special, harsher punishment than if those people, say, openly don't like Asian people? It's ironic and slightly disturbing how in the US some liberal people seem to think that if people can't be convinced to be liberal the soft way, the state should just enforce it manu militari. For advocating tolerance, US liberals seem very intolerant of people who do not share their views. When animals misbehave, some measures must be issued. Last time I checked, racism didn't tie into religion or social propaganda nor does it really prevalent across the globe. Anti-nationalism is mostly entirely different thing.
"People who do not agree with my world view are animals who should be subject to punishment for not sharing my world view". This is essentially what you're saying.
Racism not prevalent across the globe? You need to travel more. Western tolerance and multiculturalism is the exception. Most countries are quite openly racist.
|
|
|
It opened 21min ago. There was a complete blanket ban on any news for 4 hours.
Look at the posts in the thread.
PhysicsVanAwesome [score hidden] 16 minutes ago
You know whats crazy? I live in Orlando and I had no idea this was going on. I depend on reddit for my news 100% since it can rapidly deliver news from many sources that I can validate or discard. I have literally been up all night on Reddit and due to the apparent thread lockings and deletions, this story took 9 hours to make it to me -- I probably live within thirty minutes of this place.
Unbelievable.
|
The mega thread has been up for 22 minutes, they've been deleting thread and locking them for hours.
|
On June 13 2016 00:22 opisska wrote:Haha, it's because they have a fucking MEGATHREAD. How ironic to see people bitching about that on TL  )
In this case I'm not going to point to censorship (though I'm of the opinion that they almost always do it on Islamic violence or sexual crimes atm) because I quite frankly don't know. But this is a result of people complaining and getting angrier at reddit. They went mass censorship mode when Cologne happened and people kept asking why it wasn't 'worldnews' or part of 'europe' or part of all those reddits. They just kept silencing the links brought up about Cologne and removing every single one for decent period of time. The Cologne one was an especially bad case. But there were others such as the "sexual emergency" and the "molestations at pools near refugee centers" etc.
Case in point. This type of censorship has been happening for a very long time.
+ Show Spoiler +
Reddit mods will claim this, but they're blatantly lying as there's plenty of archived reddit threads & unreddits that show the opposite on major events.
+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler +https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/4nq3ib/rnews_locked_the_thread_about_orlando_shooting_as/
|
On June 13 2016 00:22 maartendq wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2016 23:52 ForTehDarkseid wrote:On June 12 2016 22:55 maartendq wrote:On June 12 2016 21:38 ForTehDarkseid wrote:
@micronesia, you can correct me if I am mistaken, but LGBT is a criminal offense in a Muslim countries. In Asia and CIS, those communities are heavily targeted for "propaganding", but in most cases it's just sugar-coating the masses' ignorance and intolerance. Trying to solve the problem the soft way (by education and public restrictions) didn't really help, more strict regulations should be imposed.
I am a strong advocate of removing administrative penalties or fines entirely in a favor of straight jail time for any harm caused on a homophobic basis. As the things stand right now, international courts can't do anything against those corrupted countries, while authorities simply don't give a shit about such nuances, or even worse, support those actions indirectly. And what makes LGBT people more special than other minority groups that the people who openly don't like LGBT deserve special, harsher punishment than if those people, say, openly don't like Asian people? It's ironic and slightly disturbing how in the US some liberal people seem to think that if people can't be convinced to be liberal the soft way, the state should just enforce it manu militari. For advocating tolerance, US liberals seem very intolerant of people who do not share their views. When animals misbehave, some measures must be issued. Last time I checked, racism didn't tie into religion or social propaganda nor does it really prevalent across the globe. Anti-nationalism is mostly entirely different thing. "People who do not agree with my world view are animals who should be subject to punishment for not sharing my world view". This is essentially what you're saying.
I am saying LGBT-haters are animals. When it comes down to bigotry, there isn't a thing like a different world view for any civilized being. I am feeling that Muslim lobby has already won when people claim that there could be another opinion on this matter.
User was temp banned for this post.
|
OK guys sorry, I didn't know about the fact that the megathread wasn't up for most of the time, I was falsely indulging in the irony as I went on a small rant against megathreads on TL recently and now it seemed that the concept of megathreads backfired conveniently. So I want to retrace to the previous comment about how this is modded by people who got there by a dubious selection process and should be taken as such.
|
On June 13 2016 00:14 ImFromPortugal wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2016 00:13 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On June 13 2016 00:10 ImFromPortugal wrote:it's their site if they deem necessary to lock a thread why not? Not "a thread", it's all threads about the worst shooting in US history and they started doing it the second it learned the shooter was muslim. it's their website, if teamliquid decided to do the same would you cry about it?
Thats like the worst argument ever.
|
On June 13 2016 00:27 ForTehDarkseid wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2016 00:22 maartendq wrote:On June 12 2016 23:52 ForTehDarkseid wrote:On June 12 2016 22:55 maartendq wrote:On June 12 2016 21:38 ForTehDarkseid wrote:
@micronesia, you can correct me if I am mistaken, but LGBT is a criminal offense in a Muslim countries. In Asia and CIS, those communities are heavily targeted for "propaganding", but in most cases it's just sugar-coating the masses' ignorance and intolerance. Trying to solve the problem the soft way (by education and public restrictions) didn't really help, more strict regulations should be imposed.
I am a strong advocate of removing administrative penalties or fines entirely in a favor of straight jail time for any harm caused on a homophobic basis. As the things stand right now, international courts can't do anything against those corrupted countries, while authorities simply don't give a shit about such nuances, or even worse, support those actions indirectly. And what makes LGBT people more special than other minority groups that the people who openly don't like LGBT deserve special, harsher punishment than if those people, say, openly don't like Asian people? It's ironic and slightly disturbing how in the US some liberal people seem to think that if people can't be convinced to be liberal the soft way, the state should just enforce it manu militari. For advocating tolerance, US liberals seem very intolerant of people who do not share their views. When animals misbehave, some measures must be issued. Last time I checked, racism didn't tie into religion or social propaganda nor does it really prevalent across the globe. Anti-nationalism is mostly entirely different thing. "People who do not agree with my world view are animals who should be subject to punishment for not sharing my world view". This is essentially what you're saying. I am saying LGBT-haters are animals. When it comes down to bigotry, there isn't a thing like a different world view for any civilized being. I am feeling that Muslim lobby has already won when people claim that there could be another opinion on this matter.
So you consider pretty much all muslims and a large portion of christians to be animals?
|
On June 13 2016 00:30 opisska wrote:
OK guys sorry, I didn't know about the fact that the megathread wasn't up for most of the time, I was falsely indulging in the irony as I went on a small rant against megathreads on TL recently and now it seemed that the concept of megathreads backfired conveniently. So I want to retrace to the previous comment about how this is modded by people who got there by a dubious selection process and should be taken as such.
Looks like Kwark was a prophet. Imagine what the US politics thread would look like right now. At least this thread has a topic it can contain itself to without going into long-winded discussions about which presidential candidate is to blame for this tragedy.
|
I read the OP but not this entire thread yet... has it been established that this is a hate crime/ that the club was targeted because it was a gay nightclub, or is there a chance that that part is a coincidence? I fear that it was targeted on purpose but I'm not sure 
|
NRA:
"See what happens if you are a liberal LGBT-Supporter and anti-Guns ? No one in the club stopped the attacker. This could never have happend in a Texas sport's bar ! Vote Trump !"
Seriouly your US-guys are NUTS.
And to all the ideologists...fucking stop caring about WHO has been murdered. It were 50 People, not 50 icarnations of gay-jesus christ. 50 people, 50 too many.
Stop labeling this stuff as hatecrime. If you don't stop marking people as "diffrent" from the norm, and force everyone to accept them.......being gay will never be accepted as normal.
It's fucking sad, don't let it be political.
|
On June 13 2016 00:37 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2016 00:27 ForTehDarkseid wrote:On June 13 2016 00:22 maartendq wrote:On June 12 2016 23:52 ForTehDarkseid wrote:On June 12 2016 22:55 maartendq wrote:On June 12 2016 21:38 ForTehDarkseid wrote:
@micronesia, you can correct me if I am mistaken, but LGBT is a criminal offense in a Muslim countries. In Asia and CIS, those communities are heavily targeted for "propaganding", but in most cases it's just sugar-coating the masses' ignorance and intolerance. Trying to solve the problem the soft way (by education and public restrictions) didn't really help, more strict regulations should be imposed.
I am a strong advocate of removing administrative penalties or fines entirely in a favor of straight jail time for any harm caused on a homophobic basis. As the things stand right now, international courts can't do anything against those corrupted countries, while authorities simply don't give a shit about such nuances, or even worse, support those actions indirectly. And what makes LGBT people more special than other minority groups that the people who openly don't like LGBT deserve special, harsher punishment than if those people, say, openly don't like Asian people? It's ironic and slightly disturbing how in the US some liberal people seem to think that if people can't be convinced to be liberal the soft way, the state should just enforce it manu militari. For advocating tolerance, US liberals seem very intolerant of people who do not share their views. When animals misbehave, some measures must be issued. Last time I checked, racism didn't tie into religion or social propaganda nor does it really prevalent across the globe. Anti-nationalism is mostly entirely different thing. "People who do not agree with my world view are animals who should be subject to punishment for not sharing my world view". This is essentially what you're saying. I am saying LGBT-haters are animals. When it comes down to bigotry, there isn't a thing like a different world view for any civilized being. I am feeling that Muslim lobby has already won when people claim that there could be another opinion on this matter. So you consider pretty much all muslims and a large portion of christians to be animals?
i would say so.
either use your brain or dont do anything at all and keep away from less primitive folk.
|
|
|
On June 13 2016 00:34 NukeD wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2016 00:14 ImFromPortugal wrote:On June 13 2016 00:13 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On June 13 2016 00:10 ImFromPortugal wrote:it's their site if they deem necessary to lock a thread why not? Not "a thread", it's all threads about the worst shooting in US history and they started doing it the second it learned the shooter was muslim. it's their website, if teamliquid decided to do the same would you cry about it? Thats like the worst argument ever.
your's wasn't much better
|
This reddit censorship ordeal is quite disturbing. This is a really big deal. I just cant accept the argumentation that reason for censoring islamic related stuff is to not provoke anti-islam ideas in people. I dont think are leaders are that noble.
|
Speaking of reddit, they have now this nice little feature where people can make a LR of the world - I don't know how useful it is when it seems to be limited to a couple of contributors, but might be worth watching if you are interested in these events:
https://www.reddit.com/live/x2tjnk7gg9wa
|
On June 13 2016 00:46 ImFromPortugal wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2016 00:34 NukeD wrote:On June 13 2016 00:14 ImFromPortugal wrote:On June 13 2016 00:13 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On June 13 2016 00:10 ImFromPortugal wrote:it's their site if they deem necessary to lock a thread why not? Not "a thread", it's all threads about the worst shooting in US history and they started doing it the second it learned the shooter was muslim. it's their website, if teamliquid decided to do the same would you cry about it? Thats like the worst argument ever. your's wasn't much better
:D
|
OK, I've just updated the OP. I made this thread because no one was talking about it here and because I've never made a thread before I kind of forgot that people read the OP for the general information.
If anything new comes up and it should be in the OP, PM me or maybe a mod should just go ahead and change it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://puu.sh/pq2Qq/d951f114b1.png)
![[image loading]](http://puu.sh/pq30o/b00a4bbcb2.png)
