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Please go to the Gun Thread to discuss gun laws in the USA, and related topics. Do not use this thread. |
Well you're right by saying gays don't have it great, but I would say they have it...normal ? Not great not bad, like every average people basically.
As I said, perhaps it's different in the US with all those evangelists group things, but I'd say overall gays aren't discriminated, or even marginalized in most places but the very rural towns (and even that is a stereotype ironically, now even there most people just don't care, except perhaps in eastern europe, which I guess politically is a little like your south (more conservative territories) ?)
PEW statistics has good studies about all that if you're interested (perhaps you know that already)
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On June 27 2016 08:35 Sonnington wrote:He took that from my 4th citation. About 60% accept gays, 30% don't accept gays. Show nested quote +On June 27 2016 08:06 Slayer91 wrote:
At this point you're debating as to whether the term "sucks" is relative, or absolute, with regards to being a homosexual.
Good job gentlemen. I'd make a joke about the irony of using the term "sucks" with this particular topic but I wouldn't want to drag down the intellectual level of conversation. I'm not sure what it's like in Ireland, but in the states we have an extremely rich and powerful LGBT lobby that is in constant need to push a the narrative that their ever expanding group of misfits are being treated like Jim Crow south blacks were. They constantly push this narrative that gays have it so bad in the USA. Really though, you can't blame people for believing it when they hear it all the time. But someone has to say, "Hey, that's not true and this is why." This is really meandering off topic though... http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-orlando-gay-fbi-20160623-snap-story.htmlFBI investigators have so far found no reason to believe Mateen was gay. Which makes sense. I think the reason he was at the gay bar was to scope the place out before the shooting.
Even if you think that narrative is overboard, that doesn't nullify any of issues themselves.
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On June 27 2016 08:36 Uldridge wrote:
I don't think homosexual people face the same hardships as they do in non-western culture.
However, being discriminated by a significant portion of society is still having it hard and not at all being treated equally.
This is a story of nuance, experience and geosociopolitic nature. The world, not even your country or region where your live is not dichotomous.
How hard is it though? On average, gays make more money and are more well educated than straights. The portion of the population that thinks homosexuality shouldn't be accepted by society aren't able to hold them back. So how significant is that portion?. The media loves them, the administration loves them, Trump loves them, people are afraid they'll get sued by the LGBT lobby for looking at them the wrong way, and all statistics suggest gays are absolutely flourishing in the USA. Enough of the bullshit guys.
I think this is meandering off topic, but I'd really feel remiss if I didn't mention this. The black community is not flourishing and it's mainly because their schools are so abysmal. It's not because of racism or the police. It's a big a complicated subject, but there should be so much more focus on improving black schools in order to improve the lot of the black community.
In all honesty, how can I think you're anything but off your rocker when you tell me gays have it bad in the USA? They have it good here. Most black have it bad here and gays have it bad in Syria.
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On June 27 2016 09:15 Sonnington wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2016 08:36 Uldridge wrote:
I don't think homosexual people face the same hardships as they do in non-western culture.
However, being discriminated by a significant portion of society is still having it hard and not at all being treated equally.
This is a story of nuance, experience and geosociopolitic nature. The world, not even your country or region where your live is not dichotomous. How hard is it though? On average, gays make more money and are more well educated than straights. The portion of the population that thinks homosexuality shouldn't be accepted by society aren't able to hold them back. So how significant is that portion?. The media loves them, the administration loves them, Trump loves them, people are afraid they'll get sued by the LGBT lobby for looking at them the wrong way, and all statistics suggest gays are absolutely flourishing in the USA. Enough of the bullshit guys. I think this is meandering off topic, but I'd really feel remiss if I didn't mention this. The black community is not flourishing and it's mainly because their schools are so abysmal. It's not because of racism or the police. It's a big a complicated subject, but there should be so much more focus on improving black schools in order to improve the lot of the black community. In all honesty, how can I think you're anything but off your rocker when you tell me gays have it bad in the USA? They have it good here. Most black have it bad here and gays have it bad in Syria.
do you have citations for the stuff in your first paragraph? That gays have higher education/income?
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United States24768 Posts
On June 27 2016 09:15 Sonnington wrote:
In all honesty, how can I think you're anything but off your rocker when you tell me gays have it bad in the USA? They have it good here. Most black have it bad here and gays have it bad in Syria.
I'm starting to do some research into this and one obvious question is how suicide rates compare between gays and nongays. Unfortunately, I don't have access to most online journals since I'm not enrolled in any college programs right now, so much material is paywalled. For example, I just read this abstract:
Both clinical and epidemiological literature point to elevated rates of suicidal behaviors in gay, lesbian, and bisexual youth (GLBY). Recent North American and New Zealand studies of large populations (especially the US Youth Risk Behavior Surveys from several states) indicate that gay, lesbian, and bisexual adolescents (males in particular) can have rates of serious suicide attempts at least four times those of apparently heterosexual youth. There are various reasons why this figure is likely to be an underestimate. Reasons for these elevated rates of suicidal behavior include a climate of homophobic persecution in schools, and sometimes in family and community—values and actions that stigmatize homosexuality and that the youth who has not yet “come out” has to endure in silence.
I suspect the trend is currently getting better in the USA (note the year of the article), but looking at the apparent professional success of homosexual adults is covering up the struggle of getting to adulthood (and not everyone accomplishes that).
For the record, I'm not arguing that the LGBT community or it's organizations aren't making outrageous claims (I'm agnostic on that due to lack of research).
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On June 27 2016 09:17 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2016 09:15 Sonnington wrote:On June 27 2016 08:36 Uldridge wrote:
I don't think homosexual people face the same hardships as they do in non-western culture.
However, being discriminated by a significant portion of society is still having it hard and not at all being treated equally.
This is a story of nuance, experience and geosociopolitic nature. The world, not even your country or region where your live is not dichotomous. How hard is it though? On average, gays make more money and are more well educated than straights. The portion of the population that thinks homosexuality shouldn't be accepted by society aren't able to hold them back. So how significant is that portion?. The media loves them, the administration loves them, Trump loves them, people are afraid they'll get sued by the LGBT lobby for looking at them the wrong way, and all statistics suggest gays are absolutely flourishing in the USA. Enough of the bullshit guys. I think this is meandering off topic, but I'd really feel remiss if I didn't mention this. The black community is not flourishing and it's mainly because their schools are so abysmal. It's not because of racism or the police. It's a big a complicated subject, but there should be so much more focus on improving black schools in order to improve the lot of the black community. In all honesty, how can I think you're anything but off your rocker when you tell me gays have it bad in the USA? They have it good here. Most black have it bad here and gays have it bad in Syria. do you have citations for the stuff in your first paragraph? That gays have higher education/income?
Yup.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/general/510204-shooting-gay-night-club-in-orlando?page=19#367
From what I've heard, uncited, people with high IQs tend to push social norms. Which would explain why gays tend to have higher IQs and more education. It would also explain why religions that are based on old dogma are averse to homosexuality because you'd want the smartest people in your tribe fathering the most amount of children. Not to say it's acceptable today, but it's understandable where the value originally came from.
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United States24768 Posts
On June 27 2016 09:40 Sonnington wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2016 09:17 zlefin wrote:On June 27 2016 09:15 Sonnington wrote:On June 27 2016 08:36 Uldridge wrote:
I don't think homosexual people face the same hardships as they do in non-western culture.
However, being discriminated by a significant portion of society is still having it hard and not at all being treated equally.
This is a story of nuance, experience and geosociopolitic nature. The world, not even your country or region where your live is not dichotomous. How hard is it though? On average, gays make more money and are more well educated than straights. The portion of the population that thinks homosexuality shouldn't be accepted by society aren't able to hold them back. So how significant is that portion?. The media loves them, the administration loves them, Trump loves them, people are afraid they'll get sued by the LGBT lobby for looking at them the wrong way, and all statistics suggest gays are absolutely flourishing in the USA. Enough of the bullshit guys. I think this is meandering off topic, but I'd really feel remiss if I didn't mention this. The black community is not flourishing and it's mainly because their schools are so abysmal. It's not because of racism or the police. It's a big a complicated subject, but there should be so much more focus on improving black schools in order to improve the lot of the black community. In all honesty, how can I think you're anything but off your rocker when you tell me gays have it bad in the USA? They have it good here. Most black have it bad here and gays have it bad in Syria. do you have citations for the stuff in your first paragraph? That gays have higher education/income? Yup. http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/general/510204-shooting-gay-night-club-in-orlando?page=19#367From what I've heard, uncited, people with high IQs tend to push social norms. Which would explain why gays tend to have higher IQs and more education. It would also explain why religions that are based on old dogma are averse to homosexuality because you'd want the smartest people in your tribe fathering the most amount of children. Not to say it's acceptable today, but it's understandable where the value originally came from.
This doesn't really explain why the brightest Christian child in ye olden days would be encouraged to become the Priest... although that is getting horribly off topic 
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Hmm, I've checked those sources sonnington, and they don't say gays earn more and are better educated than straight people; those stats are specifically for couples living in households; it does not include the numerous people who live alone, or with other family.
There's another issue too: look at the map in your linked source, note that some of those areas have a much higher percentage of gay couples than others. I recognize alot of those areas as states that simply have higher income levels and higher average levels of educational attainment. Which could mean that the differences between gay and straight couples are substantially or entirely a result of the fact that gay couples are more common in certain states, rather than being actually due to any gay/straight difference.
I note this article and its maps:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_income
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On June 27 2016 09:59 zlefin wrote:Hmm, I've checked those sources sonnington, and they don't say gays earn more and are better educated than straight people; those stats are specifically for couples living in households; it does not include the numerous people who live alone, or with other family. There's another issue too: look at the map in your linked source, note that some of those areas have a much higher percentage of gay couples than others. I recognize alot of those areas as states that simply have higher income levels and higher average levels of educational attainment. Which could mean that the differences between gay and straight couples are substantially or entirely a result of the fact that gay couples are more common in certain states, rather than being actually due to any gay/straight difference. I note this article and its maps: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_income
Those are fair points to make. Only gay couples make more than straight couples and likely has a strong link to the fact they mostly live in high income areas. I can't find any well sourced information outside of that though.
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I don't recall ever hearing elsewhere about any educational or income advantage in gays generally; other than that (at least for male couples) they may more often have 2 incomes from working and no children.
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EPT
