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Also your MLB comparison is flawed because most people don't buy a single ticket to see several exciting games in a row, and then given an exhibition match at the end that is meaningless. I would say if anything, most people would walk out of the stadium after seeing the nail biting matches that mattered.
However I'm sure there are still people who want to watch the game, so the players have to play.
See above! Also, I find that comparing sc2 to professional sports is huge stretch. Especially your "meaningless games" comparison. NFL and NBA teams for example, are often comprised of new players who need time to gel and work together as a cohesive unit. There is only so much you can do in practice to attain that level. Playing regular season games however helps them. It's like a perfect form of practice - Experience.
Most starcraft players play so many ladder games and custom games against other pros that are seldom different in nature than a tournament game. I'm sure it's pretty safe to say that Naniwa is at a point right now where he doesn't really need the "booth experience." I'm sure most of us would also agree that it is also important for him to not reveal all his strategies in meaningless games when he could save them for a real game. Imagine for one moment that Naniwa had thought up a brilliant and unique strategy against Nestea. Now imagine that he executes it perfectly and wins. What does he have to show for it? Sure he can brag that he beat Nestea again, but I'm sure he would much rather save a build like that for a Code S match or another MLG event etc
Any player in the NFL (or any high end competitive league for anything (sports, chess, etc)) has a ton of field experience as well, from practice to extremely important matches. Are you saying they don't need any more "booth experience" (i.e. field experience) as well, or is that even an argument? Naniwa doesn't have to show any new secret strategy, he could've have 4 gated like he said.
There are people who want to see a meaningless game, some of you are completely ignoring this reality. It's especially true if the game has been announced beforehand and there is hype around it, when that is the case the player has the responsibility to play a game, meaningless or not. If the player doesn't fill that responsibility then people do get upset and the people who support the player (teams, sponsors, leagues) do notice...this could be very bad for the player if he continues to repeat this kind of behavior. Fortunately, Naniwa understood this and probably won't do this again.
On December 17 2011 08:08 Reggiegigas wrote:
And yeah, people are comparing e-sports to other big sports like hockey. But there's a big difference: in e-sports, the people who compete are gamers. They're not athletes. They're just ordinary joes, gamers, and that's why we love them.
I feel bad for you if you can't see athletes as ordinary people.
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On December 15 2011 19:02 Gobe wrote:
The problem is that if Naniwa had played out the match and entirely fail because he was unable to perform his best, that then directly reflects on him as a player. The format of the tournament put Naniwa in a bad position, and then punished him when he responded.
Yes, because people judge his performance and talent based on 1 single BO1 right? If people do, then its a problem with those fans and not with NaNiwa.
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Herp Derp lets makes games not matter and expect people to try. Corporate stupidity & Greed.
User was warned for this post
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On December 17 2011 14:56 Ruski wrote:
Herp Derp lets makes games not matter and expect people to try. Corporate stupidity & Greed.
How dare a company try and generate enough revenue to continue running the highest level, in terms of skill, tournament and make a profit to continue improving it! The audacity!
The fact the game didn't matter has no effect on the situation. The tournament isn't designed around making Naniwa happy, it is designed around creating high level and entertaining games the captivate an audience and generate profit.
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I still disagree.
As I had turned off the stream before their game even started because I didn't even want to watch a game that meant nothing.
If GOM didn't want to lose money they should have had a better tournament format.
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Herp Derp lets makes games not matter and expect people to try. Corporate stupidity & Greed.
There are lots of games that don't matter in all sports, games that don't matter to one side or both because they've made them that way by losing in prior games. Blatantly and deliberately throwing their meaningless game still isn't acceptable. The league didn't make those games meaningless, the teams' prior failures to win did.
Corporate greed is not an accurate charge against GOM, or stupidity.
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65/35 and 70/30 in disapproval of NaNiwa's actions
http://www.teamliquid.net/poll/index.php?poll_id=525
What do you think of Naniwa vs Nestea? :
Disappointing but no big deal (6249) 41%
Completely unacceptable (3866) 25%
Understandable (3501) 23%
Completely justified (1678) 11%
Looks like the opposite to me.
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This was well explained by GOM, naniwa disrespected casters and viewers and the esports comunity as well, you didnt say anything new
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On December 17 2011 11:36 jyLee wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2011 08:41 Angelbelow wrote:On December 16 2011 22:46 StarStruck wrote:On December 16 2011 17:28 Angelbelow wrote:On December 16 2011 17:11 StarStruck wrote:On December 16 2011 17:10 Angelbelow wrote:On December 16 2011 16:36 StarStruck wrote:On December 16 2011 16:23 Angelbelow wrote:
For those who are questioning whether Alex has to right to comment on something like this, doesn't it say something when Nazgul supports this blog and is preparing one himself? Doesnt it say something when FXOBoSs already has his opinion blogged? And a number of other notable TL members have also spared their opinion including players like Tyler.. should they all shove it too? We have shows like SToG and LO3 but most of those guys are affiliated with teams and organizations yet they give their opinions weekly, often on controversy matters - and to are delight. They shouldn't stop either.
In line with the real sport comparisons, when David Stern, the commissioner of the NBA blocked a blockbuster trade in recent days did the coaches, players, general managers (especially the ones directly involved) exploded with criticism and disapproval. SC2 isn't at a level where we have professional journalists providing professional commentary on current events in sc2. Therefore, for now at least, I think were quite privileged to be able hear the opinions of players and management's opinion on situations like this. No organization exists to fine such outlandish comments. Go ahead. Doesn't mean it's the professional thing to do. If you want others to treat you as professionals then conduct yourselves as such. Keep it behind closed doors. Deal with your own players and don't release everything to the damn Media. So I guess anyone involved with sc2 that has an opinion (especially involving constructive criticism) about someone else in the sc2 community should keep it to themselves or risk being called unprofessional by you? You don't have to change your opinion, just know that they are a high volume of people that actually appreciate that Alex, Nazgul, Tyler, FXOBoSs, Doa (just to name a FEW) shared their opinions with the fans. Upper management keeps things behind closed doors for a reason. They know how to conduct themselves with public relations. Every professional organization I know does this. Fair thing to say but that really depends on WHAT they're discussing. If its player A is getting cut from the team because hes has ABC problems, then you obviously keep it to yourself. If they're giving their opinion based on something that happened in front of a national audience is perfectly fine. I just explained why this isn't the case. If you've actually read what I said. On December 16 2011 16:14 Angelbelow wrote:On December 16 2011 15:51 StarStruck wrote:On December 16 2011 15:20 Kahuna. wrote:On December 16 2011 15:09 StarStruck wrote:You are missing the point. GM's and coaches do not question other player's work ethic. It isn't their job to. Thus the Lebron move has no relevancy because they weren't questioning Lebron's work ethic. Pat Quinn and numerous other coaches have been fined heftily by the leagues for doing such demeanor's. It can carry a 5 to 6 digit price tag. Hell, even calling another player's hit dirty can hit you hard: http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=501664The reason why the anecdote works is because all 9 matches count towards one thing. Which two players move onto the next round. The words 'work ethic' didn't show up in Alex's blog post... He was commenting on Naniwa's decision to probe-rush. He hasn't stated that he doesn't think Naniwa practices hard. So the 82 games that each hockey team plays in a season leads to one thing: which 16 teams will make it into the playoffs. So if during a couple of the games, a few teams decide to stay home and watch Jerry Springer rather than show up to their games, should we not care since we have to take the whole picture of the ENTIRE season into consideration and seeing as most of the season was great, then who cares about those couple of games? Again, bad anecdote. You have to read between the lines of what he said. I made no mention of practice. Work ethic goes way beyond practice. You can try to spin doctor it all you want. Here's where your argument falls apart. All of the matches happened on the same day. There is no rest period. No time for preparation. It's a slug fest when it happens back-to-back. Each competitor fights one round against another opponent. There are four rounds. It's how the event is packaged. You buy your ticket to watch in the studio and it is packaged as one event. Almost sounds like a UFC fight card, no? With that said, I have a question for you: would you honestly go up to the ticket booth and ask for your money back when eight bouts were really entertaining and close, but Mark Hominick got KOed in the first nine seconds by the Korean Zombie? That's very different from what happened, but I think it resonates with the idea that shit happens to great athletes all the time. Lots of people were hyped for that fight, but it was a wash. I haven't read the rest of your posts so Ill just respond to the bold part. Hominick being KOed by Chan a good thing. Thats what many fans pay to see, a highlight reel knockout. That's part of the reason why they pay to watch the UFC (especially fans that are new to the sport) and I would argue that a rare highlight reel knock out like that lives up to the hype. I would read all posts. That's what I do anyway. I find it's very important because that way you get a good feel for what the person is trying to say. Anyway, not everyone is going to share that opinion of what happened. I know a lot of people who were pissed off especially when Mark was fighting in front of his home crowd. It's the same thing with Naniwa. Everyone has a mixed opinion. Some people laughed, other people booed and some people were indifferent others thought he was just being himself, etc. That's the great thing about public opinion. You cannot please everybody. The only reason the home crowd would be mad is because Mark got beat in an embarrassing fashion.. but Mark didnt throw the fight. He went out cocky and got caught. The Korean Zombie is known to be a wild striker who loves to bang, Mark shouldn't have came out with his hands down like that. But make no mistake, Mark wanted to win. As an avid MMA fan, I see NO reason why anyone would be mad about that match unless they're a Mark Hominick fan boy and are upset that he lost. Ive never seen anyone complain about a highreel knockout (unless its their favorite player that got knocked out =p) Its absolutely not the same thing with Naniwa because the only thing youre actually comparing is the length of the match. I guarantee you that match is going to be in the next "UFC Ultimate Knockouts" while Naniwa's game will never be marketed to an audience and will continue to be condemned. btw on a side note.. what did you think about that Mir and Nog fight.. as an old pride fan it sucked watching that fight lol. Mir is a such a submission beast though. How can you even compare what Naniwa did to what happened to Hominick. Naniwa gave up, Hominick just got his ass handed to him in record fashion. It was never a question of effort or tossing the match. On that note why the hell did Hominick underestimate an opponent that is nicknamed the the motherf****** korean zombie. Also that Nog fight made me sad because Mir seems like a big douchebag and Nog deserved better 
I'm assuming youre responding to Starstruck but quoted me? Anyway I agree with you and disagreed with him. Completely different situations.
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As a person who does not follow e-sports to any great degree, save for when my friends tell me about something crazy/funny/cool that happened in the SC2 pro scene, I find the dichotomy between the SC2 "professional" model and that of established professional sports (in the United States, at least), to have a substantial bearing on the situation.
Allow me to explain: if Felix Hernandez, of the usually-last-place Mariners, pitches poorly for a few innings, puts his team out of the game, and generally sucks, he does not have to go through the ignominy of playing out the remaining innings of the game.. His manager walks out to the mound, slaps him on the butt, and sends him on his way. The fans know King Felix is one of the best in the game, and on a moribund franchise like the Mariners, they likely only came to the game to see Hernandez pitch. The fans understand, however, that even the best pitcher in the game can't always be great. Instead, an eager young reliever, someone who is hungry, and generally on a tight rope in terms of his roster spot, comes into the game. They know they need to pitch well, or at least try, to maintain their roster spot. The fans watch the reliever, hoping he is the next big thing for their team. The fans don't demand that Felix Hernandez stay in the game for another eight innings just so they can watch Felix Hernandez throw a little ball for a little while longer. They let him retire to the comfort of his teammates, away from the spotlight so he can get it back together. Yay.
Now, in this situation with the Swedish fellow, we have a young guy (and forgive my ignorance of the structure of e-sports tournaments here), who is essentially all alone in a foreign country. In absolute terms, he gets hammered in his matches. He just gave up eight runs in the first inning, and when he looks into the dugout, there is no manager there to pull the plug; there is no one there to stop the bleeding. Instead, he realizes that he has to keep playing, even though his mental focus has been utterly shattered.
Again, here is where the odd format of these tournaments comes to light. In a high school wrestling tournament, for example, you typically have a match every hour or so until you lose twice. At that point, you are eliminated from contention. You cannot win, and as such you do not continue to have opponents. Would people still watch you if the tournament organizers threw you out onto a mat with some other guy who just got his ass kicked? Probably. Would it be fun for you, at all? No. It would suck. You just finished getting demolished by people you were supposed to beat, or at least contend with. You feel awful. You're tired, physically and emotionally.
What if they made you go out there, though? Your coaches would pull you aside - explain to you that you have to go out there, one more time. There are fans watching. They would tell you to get yourself back in the game for the next six minutes (length of a wrestling match - highly relevant, I know). They would tell you that the match doesn't mean anything, but it doesn't mean you should just give up, either. They would motivate you. They would tell you they watched the other guy's matches, and he sucks. You can beat him if you give it your best. You can end the tournament on a good note. You get amped up - you dredge up your last reserves of energy, and you go out there and try to kick some ass.
Naniwa, though? He (to my knowledge) doesn't have someone in his ear every step of the tournament, telling him to dig a little deeper, telling him that while this match may not matter now, it matters. It's not an easy thing to drag yourself up from total defeat to go play one more round - a round that is meaningless, a show match for the bemusement of those left watching the fallen. It makes you feel like a puppet. It isn't something you want to do - you don't care that the tournament organizer sold tickets for people to watch - you just want to go home and gather your emotions together.
Yes, I understand that what Naniwa did was, in absolute terms, wrong. However, throwing him back out there for a match that was utterly without meaning? There are very, very few people on this planet who would perform well under those circumstances.
There are people who said he could have done any number of things - he could have 4gated, 2 gated, cannon rushed, whatever. Why? What purpose would it serve? The community would still recognize the lack of effort.
This, in my opinion, is about the tournament organizers, and to an extent, the fans, feeling disrespected by Naniwa's "actions." Unfortunately, very few people have been empathetic enough to respect how Naniwa must have felt about the situation he was placed in. The tournament structure put him in an awful situation. If a 20 year old reliever gives up three home runs in a game, the manager doesn't say, "alright son, you're gonna pitch again in the nightcap." No, he gives the reliever the damn night off to get his mind back in the right place.
Some people are better at dealing with 'failure' in public than others. Some players can stand at their locker after giving up the game winning hit and talk to the media for twenty minutes about how great the fans are, or how nice the lady at Taco Bell was yesterday. Some players just can't do it, though. They look at the reporter, say "I sucked," and go home. They can't explain in sickening detail every mistake they made.
I feel that whoever is responsible for the player management of Naniwa needed to do a better job of keeping his mind in the right place. I feel that the tournament organizers were foolish in creating this scenario. I feel that Naniwa could have been more respectful - forcing him to play was not the answer, but he could have easily just said "I'm not up to it, sorry for letting you down."
I feel that the response to his actions was grossly exaggerated - recognize that he is a very popular, very young player. Young men make mistakes. This is a fact of life. You do not destroy them when they do foolish things simply to prove that you have more power than they do. You help them learn from it so they can grow stronger.
I apologize for the oft rambling monologue.
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On December 17 2011 05:31 Hershey wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2011 20:51 10or10 wrote:
I disagree with both EGalex and EGincontrolls (stated on SotG and ITG) opnions, agree with EGidras (stated on ITG) opinion.
What's meaningful for me is the competition and the skill shown in those circumstances, not the "show" or "fun" games. It's a huge difference for me to see a football (soccer) player perform a dribble in Champions League final, compared to doing it on a warm-up or a national friendly. agree 100%, either way I don't really know what all the fuss is about. MC was bitching Naniwa out and then the next day he does some stupid carrier/mothership/collossus build that got slaughtered and wasn't very entertaining.
Oh great, now I find myself thinking about MC's MLG Orlando final against his good friend HuK. >.<'
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What people seem to overlook is that Naniwas game, although short, had more entertainment value to most viewers than the last three gsl finals combined.
I guarantee you the vod will have more views than any other match on gom's site. More people have talked about gom's Blizzard Cup than they ever would have because of the probe rush.
So I find Alex's point of Naniwa taking away value from GOMs product completely not valid. If anything he has caused their biggest Media campaign to date.
And so they should be silently thankful for his action, appologize for the unthoughtful format and make sure this won't happen again.
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On December 17 2011 18:43 remedium wrote:
Now, in this situation with the Swedish fellow, we have a young guy (and forgive my ignorance of the structure of e-sports tournaments here), who is essentially all alone in a foreign country. In absolute terms, he gets hammered in his matches.
I agree with most of your post, just wanted to point out that Naniwa didn't get hammered. 0:3 sounds horrible but in reality all three of the games were very close.
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I agree it was wrong of Naniwa but at the same time even though his rush had no chance of winning and he didn't even try, shouldn't gom tv then punish players who rush for wins in games less than 8 minutes, sometimes shortening a night of good viewing in half because of all the 2 rax or early pool all ins?
it seems to me that Gom tv is more concerned with the honor around naniwa not performing purposefully rather than there simply being a bad product like this blog implied, as there have been plenty of other short, bad games.
Anyways, I love GSL and all and I feel bad for Nani for having to take this punishment, but such is life. Hopefully he keeps up his career and doesn't let this hold him down.
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On December 17 2011 18:43 remedium wrote:
As a person who does not follow e-sports to any great degree, save for when my friends tell me about something crazy/funny/cool that happened in the SC2 pro scene, I find the dichotomy between the SC2 "professional" model and that of established professional sports (in the United States, at least), to have a substantial bearing on the situation.
Allow me to explain: if Felix Hernandez, of the usually-last-place Mariners, pitches poorly for a few innings, puts his team out of the game, and generally sucks, he does not have to go through the ignominy of playing out the remaining innings of the game.. His manager walks out to the mound, slaps him on the butt, and sends him on his way. The fans know King Felix is one of the best in the game, and on a moribund franchise like the Mariners, they likely only came to the game to see Hernandez pitch. The fans understand, however, that even the best pitcher in the game can't always be great. Instead, an eager young reliever, someone who is hungry, and generally on a tight rope in terms of his roster spot, comes into the game. They know they need to pitch well, or at least try, to maintain their roster spot. The fans watch the reliever, hoping he is the next big thing for their team. The fans don't demand that Felix Hernandez stay in the game for another eight innings just so they can watch Felix Hernandez throw a little ball for a little while longer. They let him retire to the comfort of his teammates, away from the spotlight so he can get it back together. Yay.
Now, in this situation with the Swedish fellow, we have a young guy (and forgive my ignorance of the structure of e-sports tournaments here), who is essentially all alone in a foreign country. In absolute terms, he gets hammered in his matches. He just gave up eight runs in the first inning, and when he looks into the dugout, there is no manager there to pull the plug; there is no one there to stop the bleeding. Instead, he realizes that he has to keep playing, even though his mental focus has been utterly shattered.
Again, here is where the odd format of these tournaments comes to light. In a high school wrestling tournament, for example, you typically have a match every hour or so until you lose twice. At that point, you are eliminated from contention. You cannot win, and as such you do not continue to have opponents. Would people still watch you if the tournament organizers threw you out onto a mat with some other guy who just got his ass kicked? Probably. Would it be fun for you, at all? No. It would suck. You just finished getting demolished by people you were supposed to beat, or at least contend with. You feel awful. You're tired, physically and emotionally.
What if they made you go out there, though? Your coaches would pull you aside - explain to you that you have to go out there, one more time. There are fans watching. They would tell you to get yourself back in the game for the next six minutes (length of a wrestling match - highly relevant, I know). They would tell you that the match doesn't mean anything, but it doesn't mean you should just give up, either. They would motivate you. They would tell you they watched the other guy's matches, and he sucks. You can beat him if you give it your best. You can end the tournament on a good note. You get amped up - you dredge up your last reserves of energy, and you go out there and try to kick some ass.
Naniwa, though? He (to my knowledge) doesn't have someone in his ear every step of the tournament, telling him to dig a little deeper, telling him that while this match may not matter now, it matters. It's not an easy thing to drag yourself up from total defeat to go play one more round - a round that is meaningless, a show match for the bemusement of those left watching the fallen. It makes you feel like a puppet. It isn't something you want to do - you don't care that the tournament organizer sold tickets for people to watch - you just want to go home and gather your emotions together.
Yes, I understand that what Naniwa did was, in absolute terms, wrong. However, throwing him back out there for a match that was utterly without meaning? There are very, very few people on this planet who would perform well under those circumstances.
There are people who said he could have done any number of things - he could have 4gated, 2 gated, cannon rushed, whatever. Why? What purpose would it serve? The community would still recognize the lack of effort.
This, in my opinion, is about the tournament organizers, and to an extent, the fans, feeling disrespected by Naniwa's "actions." Unfortunately, very few people have been empathetic enough to respect how Naniwa must have felt about the situation he was placed in. The tournament structure put him in an awful situation. If a 20 year old reliever gives up three home runs in a game, the manager doesn't say, "alright son, you're gonna pitch again in the nightcap." No, he gives the reliever the damn night off to get his mind back in the right place.
Some people are better at dealing with 'failure' in public than others. Some players can stand at their locker after giving up the game winning hit and talk to the media for twenty minutes about how great the fans are, or how nice the lady at Taco Bell was yesterday. Some players just can't do it, though. They look at the reporter, say "I sucked," and go home. They can't explain in sickening detail every mistake they made.
I feel that whoever is responsible for the player management of Naniwa needed to do a better job of keeping his mind in the right place. I feel that the tournament organizers were foolish in creating this scenario. I feel that Naniwa could have been more respectful - forcing him to play was not the answer, but he could have easily just said "I'm not up to it, sorry for letting you down."
I feel that the response to his actions was grossly exaggerated - recognize that he is a very popular, very young player. Young men make mistakes. This is a fact of life. You do not destroy them when they do foolish things simply to prove that you have more power than they do. You help them learn from it so they can grow stronger.
I apologize for the oft rambling monologue.
I didn't find it much of a rambling really. I appreciate you taking your time to give some perspective on Alex's sports analogies. I was pretty much already on the clear that even though what Naniwa did was wrong, the response from both GOM and particularly the Korean fans (despite there being reasons for it ofc) was exaggerated and lacked understanding of Naniwa's situation, you explained very well that the world of sports isn't as stone-cold and absolute as Alex makes it sound. There's a lot of consideration and compassion in sports, and players get support from their coaches in their time of need, but Naniwa simply didn't have that support. How are we supposed to expect that Naniwa makes the right decision in such a bad spot as he was mentally in?
It's like TT1 said: until e-sports players have a union, it's all a big joke. And the same is true for giving the players the support they need. E-sports is still in it's infancy, and teams simply can't support each of their players with a coach at every match, however desperately some need it. Give that some consideration before you hate on Naniwa.
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On December 17 2011 22:03 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2011 18:43 remedium wrote:
Now, in this situation with the Swedish fellow, we have a young guy (and forgive my ignorance of the structure of e-sports tournaments here), who is essentially all alone in a foreign country. In absolute terms, he gets hammered in his matches. I agree with most of your post, just wanted to point out that Naniwa didn't get hammered. 0:3 sounds horrible but in reality all three of the games were very close.
Which however makes it worse. Feeling ahead, or in contention in every game and every single time it slips away just in the last second is pretty taxing.
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On December 18 2011 00:01 Bogeyman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2011 18:43 remedium wrote:
As a person who does not follow e-sports to any great degree, save for when my friends tell me about something crazy/funny/cool that happened in the SC2 pro scene, I find the dichotomy between the SC2 "professional" model and that of established professional sports (in the United States, at least), to have a substantial bearing on the situation.
Allow me to explain: if Felix Hernandez, of the usually-last-place Mariners, pitches poorly for a few innings, puts his team out of the game, and generally sucks, he does not have to go through the ignominy of playing out the remaining innings of the game.. His manager walks out to the mound, slaps him on the butt, and sends him on his way. The fans know King Felix is one of the best in the game, and on a moribund franchise like the Mariners, they likely only came to the game to see Hernandez pitch. The fans understand, however, that even the best pitcher in the game can't always be great. Instead, an eager young reliever, someone who is hungry, and generally on a tight rope in terms of his roster spot, comes into the game. They know they need to pitch well, or at least try, to maintain their roster spot. The fans watch the reliever, hoping he is the next big thing for their team. The fans don't demand that Felix Hernandez stay in the game for another eight innings just so they can watch Felix Hernandez throw a little ball for a little while longer. They let him retire to the comfort of his teammates, away from the spotlight so he can get it back together. Yay.
Now, in this situation with the Swedish fellow, we have a young guy (and forgive my ignorance of the structure of e-sports tournaments here), who is essentially all alone in a foreign country. In absolute terms, he gets hammered in his matches. He just gave up eight runs in the first inning, and when he looks into the dugout, there is no manager there to pull the plug; there is no one there to stop the bleeding. Instead, he realizes that he has to keep playing, even though his mental focus has been utterly shattered.
Again, here is where the odd format of these tournaments comes to light. In a high school wrestling tournament, for example, you typically have a match every hour or so until you lose twice. At that point, you are eliminated from contention. You cannot win, and as such you do not continue to have opponents. Would people still watch you if the tournament organizers threw you out onto a mat with some other guy who just got his ass kicked? Probably. Would it be fun for you, at all? No. It would suck. You just finished getting demolished by people you were supposed to beat, or at least contend with. You feel awful. You're tired, physically and emotionally.
What if they made you go out there, though? Your coaches would pull you aside - explain to you that you have to go out there, one more time. There are fans watching. They would tell you to get yourself back in the game for the next six minutes (length of a wrestling match - highly relevant, I know). They would tell you that the match doesn't mean anything, but it doesn't mean you should just give up, either. They would motivate you. They would tell you they watched the other guy's matches, and he sucks. You can beat him if you give it your best. You can end the tournament on a good note. You get amped up - you dredge up your last reserves of energy, and you go out there and try to kick some ass.
Naniwa, though? He (to my knowledge) doesn't have someone in his ear every step of the tournament, telling him to dig a little deeper, telling him that while this match may not matter now, it matters. It's not an easy thing to drag yourself up from total defeat to go play one more round - a round that is meaningless, a show match for the bemusement of those left watching the fallen. It makes you feel like a puppet. It isn't something you want to do - you don't care that the tournament organizer sold tickets for people to watch - you just want to go home and gather your emotions together.
Yes, I understand that what Naniwa did was, in absolute terms, wrong. However, throwing him back out there for a match that was utterly without meaning? There are very, very few people on this planet who would perform well under those circumstances.
There are people who said he could have done any number of things - he could have 4gated, 2 gated, cannon rushed, whatever. Why? What purpose would it serve? The community would still recognize the lack of effort.
This, in my opinion, is about the tournament organizers, and to an extent, the fans, feeling disrespected by Naniwa's "actions." Unfortunately, very few people have been empathetic enough to respect how Naniwa must have felt about the situation he was placed in. The tournament structure put him in an awful situation. If a 20 year old reliever gives up three home runs in a game, the manager doesn't say, "alright son, you're gonna pitch again in the nightcap." No, he gives the reliever the damn night off to get his mind back in the right place.
Some people are better at dealing with 'failure' in public than others. Some players can stand at their locker after giving up the game winning hit and talk to the media for twenty minutes about how great the fans are, or how nice the lady at Taco Bell was yesterday. Some players just can't do it, though. They look at the reporter, say "I sucked," and go home. They can't explain in sickening detail every mistake they made.
I feel that whoever is responsible for the player management of Naniwa needed to do a better job of keeping his mind in the right place. I feel that the tournament organizers were foolish in creating this scenario. I feel that Naniwa could have been more respectful - forcing him to play was not the answer, but he could have easily just said "I'm not up to it, sorry for letting you down."
I feel that the response to his actions was grossly exaggerated - recognize that he is a very popular, very young player. Young men make mistakes. This is a fact of life. You do not destroy them when they do foolish things simply to prove that you have more power than they do. You help them learn from it so they can grow stronger.
I apologize for the oft rambling monologue. I didn't find it much of a rambling really. I appreciate you taking your time to give some perspective on Alex's sports analogies. I was pretty much already on the clear that even though what Naniwa did was wrong, the response from both GOM and particularly the Korean fans (despite there being reasons for it ofc) was exaggerated and lacked understanding of Naniwa's situation, you explained very well that the world of sports isn't as stone-cold and absolute as Alex makes it sound. There's a lot of consideration and compassion in sports, and players get support from their coaches in their time of need, but Naniwa simply didn't have that support. How are we supposed to expect that Naniwa makes the right decision in such a bad spot as he was mentally in? It's like TT1 said: until e-sports players have a union, it's all a big joke. And the same is true for giving the players the support they need. E-sports is still in it's infancy, and teams simply can't support each of their players with a coach at every match, however desperately some need it. Give that some consideration before you hate on Naniwa.
Agreed. Long post, but not a rambling (Alex's post was in the same vein). Although the baseball analogies are generally lost to people outside the US
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Excellent post, agree 100% with it.
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How are we supposed to expect that Naniwa makes the right decision in such a bad spot as he was mentally in?
I naturally expect professionals to behave professionally even when they lose. Don't you? He's not some 15 years old amateur first time on big stage. He's a seasoned professional. Like they say at MLG: win with style, lose with dignity.
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EPT
