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On July 22 2011 22:32 TheButtonmen wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On July 22 2011 22:29 ComaDose wrote:
Something people have said that i like is:
"
No one is saying there was anything illegal or against the rules that EG did.
But no one can deny it wasn't dirty business.
"
Dirty business? You mean respecting Pumas wishs and not contacting the TSL coach? As I said in another thread; + Show Spoiler +On July 22 2011 15:03 Sworn wrote:
Ya I agree for the most part that what EG did was absolutely HORRIBLE! Imagine if when Idra was staying in korea if one of the teams just came out of nowhere asked him to play for them and didn't even talk to EG. EG would have been furious losing their star player and it's the same for TSL. I really wish EG would issue an apology at least. 1. EG wants a top level Korean player. 2. Top level Koreans come over to NASL finals. 3. EG hands out cards seeing if anyone is interested. 4. Puma is interested and talks to EG staff, when they find out he is open to the idea of working for them, has no contract and no salary they need to compete with they lay out what they are prepared to offer, Puma is interested but he wants to be the one to talk to his coach rather then EG, EG agrees. 5. Puma talks to his coach, coach isn't impressed and thinks that Puma and EG have gone and signed behind his back. (Please note that EG and Puma haven't signed or agreed to anything yet.) 6. Coach feels disrespected and starts this whole thing with his posts. 7. The standard drama fueled shitfest occurs. 8. EG finds out about all of this. 9. Coach clarifies what he meant / what happened as mis-communications start to get cleared up (hell he even throws Puma a goodbye party) 10. EG speaks out on Lo3, saying they didn't do anything wrong and they followed their potential new players wishs. (Again note that EG and Puma still haven't signed anything still.) 11. Dramallamas continue to frolic. 12. EG opens mouth and inserts foot re: what team liquid is for (while I agree partially with them this sure as hell wasn't the time). 13. Even more shit hits the fan as TL defends one of their own. 14. I eat an orange. 15. I write this post. So where exactly in this chain of events do you think EG crossed the line and needs to apologize? This was all basically EG doing their best to recruit some new blood, Puma doing his best to find the best option available to him, TSL not being able to compete due to their lack of cash flow and a tragic misunderstanding between Puma and Coach Lee which started an epic drawn out shitfest. Why exactly does there need to be a good / bad guy here? Edit: Dammit guys I can't believe I'm about to say this with a straight face but; + Show Spoiler +On July 22 2011 22:31 maahes`ra wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 22:22 jenzebubble wrote:On July 22 2011 22:19 LegionUK wrote:
Everything Slasher has posted in this thread has proven TLO's point a 1000 times over.
Well done TLO, so much respect for you. So that there is no confusion: Slasher: Works for MLG, pretty decent guy. Has NOT posted in this thread. Zlasher: Sycophant, hanger-on. Has posted in this thread. Thank you for making me look up 'sycophant' and learning its meaning. I shall apply it liberally for the rest of my life. These events are souring my appreciation for Starcraft, and they have been for quite some time. I began playing (SC2) because it was an honest endeavor I had to work at. The drama has ruined my enjoyment of the scene since I stopped playing the game. The last thing I really enjoy is Day[9] in his various forms, especially his old podcasts~. :[ This obession with drama is hurting E-sports, would it kill us to instead of jumping to conclusions and throwing ragefits to just wait until both sides of the story are out and the involved parties can clear up any miscommunications that may have occured?
lol you got a gj for being mature for linking to that post earlyer then you posted it.
gj
yeah it was dirty business to not contact the team.
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Why are people so god damn worked up about this? Headhunting and playerscalping is common in every high level sport there is. And its not like they stole Puma and he did not want to join and is beeing forced to play with EG. They gave him an offer HE took it. What's the problem?
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On July 22 2011 22:43 Snerren wrote:
Why are people so god damn worked up about this? Headhunting and playerscalping is common in every high level sport there is. And its not like they stole Puma and he did not want to join and is beeing forced to play with EG. They gave him an offer HE took it. What's the problem?
in english football its illegal for you to contact any player under contract without the consent of the team he is contracted too
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I honestly dont understand why people are demanding a high moral standard, its business not religion and demanding proffessional standards is not the same as demanding a high moral standing.
There is no logical reason why EG would ever contact the coach or the team and i find the demanding proffesional standards from journalism a bit irrelevant.
Like players play the game to win, EG plays to make money and they will in the end do whatever it takes to make money like players will do what it takes to win that is the nature of business and i think people need to learn that.
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On July 22 2011 21:43 TBO wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 21:40 Zlasher wrote:On July 22 2011 21:25 iGrok wrote:On July 22 2011 21:18 Zlasher wrote:I don't believe that the basis that EG is truly evil should be made off of a news leak that followed a supposedly good conversation between Puma and his Coach. Especially since the news post was not made by EG themselves, on a player that is not yet signed. Also, blaming EG for not making a statement between the hours of 2:30 AM and 4 PM is obscene. Unlike Coach Lee or Europeans, that is not the proper time period for a statement that is to be made by an organization, not by SirScoots via twitter. Why should they make a short statement when a larger medium can be used to make such a statement. In real sports there are press conferences that happen a day or two later, do we bitch about how late the information comes or do we accept that it is the norm to use a larger platform to make an official statement? Would you be using the Blog section on TL to make your statement when you could be making a more public one? I think, and of course this is my opinion as I do not speak for others, that more obscene than any move EG makes is the lack of accountability in esports journalism. Whether someone is a paid journalist or a journalist by profession, if they put the article out than they are accountable for journalistic integrity. In the past, and currently in sports, if someone gets a leak in news they do not immediately write a news post themself with no legitimate statements from all sides. News leakers call up someone they know who is a TRUE JOURNALIST, takes in the information and gathers further comments required before posting out a large news article. If this is the standard in real sports then why can we not hold journalists to the same standard in esports? This is not even going into the fact that we have heard one side of the story which led to a MASSIVE hate bandwagon before anyone allows themself to hear the other side. Even to you TLO, EG's statement is seen as secondary, am I right? What if you had heard EG's side first and then the TSL commentary 24 hours later after a 150 page thread is created praising EG and blasting TSL? What if you had read this statement first? On July 22 2011 19:41 Rekrul wrote:
Coach Lee is a hypocrite and a liar. The way he stole Fruitdealer and Tester from OGS in the past was far worse in terms of deceit, lack of business ethics, and backstabbing.
It's not my place to go into details, but all I can say is: Karma is a bitch. I respect your opinion in the OP but I find trouble agreeing with you when constantly, journalistic integrity is broken. It is a standard that we have had in the past in esports, and have had in real sports, and something we have lost with the growth of Team Liquid's community driven news. My opinion? If you get news and don't want to be held accountable for the news post made, then forward the news you gather to a journalist who IS willing to gather further comments and IS willing to be held accountable for their journalistic integrity. It is something I, and many people have done in the past and should NOT be left out on Team Liquid. Are you really STILL going after Milkis? Are you fucking kidding me? Not attacking Milkis, I was attacking bad journalism, something that I explained has a "fix", in that post. But I suppose you didn't read it. On July 22 2011 21:27 turdburgler wrote:On July 22 2011 21:18 Zlasher wrote:I don't believe that the basis that EG is truly evil should be made off of a news leak that followed a supposedly good conversation between Puma and his Coach. Especially since the news post was not made by EG themselves, on a player that is not yet signed. Also, blaming EG for not making a statement between the hours of 2:30 AM and 4 PM is obscene. Unlike Coach Lee or Europeans, that is not the proper time period for a statement that is to be made by an organization, not by SirScoots via twitter. Why should they make a short statement when a larger medium can be used to make such a statement. In real sports there are press conferences that happen a day or two later, do we bitch about how late the information comes or do we accept that it is the norm to use a larger platform to make an official statement? Would you be using the Blog section on TL to make your statement when you could be making a more public one? I think, and of course this is my opinion as I do not speak for others, that more obscene than any move EG makes is the lack of accountability in esports journalism. Whether someone is a paid journalist or a journalist by profession, if they put the article out than they are accountable for journalistic integrity. In the past, and currently in sports, if someone gets a leak in news they do not immediately write a news post themself with no legitimate statements from all sides. News leakers call up someone they know who is a TRUE JOURNALIST, takes in the information and gathers further comments required before posting out a large news article. If this is the standard in real sports then why can we not hold journalists to the same standard in esports? This is not even going into the fact that we have heard one side of the story which led to a MASSIVE hate bandwagon before anyone allows themself to hear the other side. Even to you TLO, EG's statement is seen as secondary, am I right? What if you had heard EG's side first and then the TSL commentary 24 hours later after a 150 page thread is created praising EG and blasting TSL? What if you had read this statement first? On July 22 2011 19:41 Rekrul wrote:
Coach Lee is a hypocrite and a liar. The way he stole Fruitdealer and Tester from OGS in the past was far worse in terms of deceit, lack of business ethics, and backstabbing.
It's not my place to go into details, but all I can say is: Karma is a bitch. I respect your opinion in the OP but I find trouble agreeing with you when constantly, journalistic integrity is broken. It is a standard that we have had in the past in esports, and have had in real sports, and something we have lost with the growth of Team Liquid's community driven news. My opinion? If you get news and don't want to be held accountable for the news post made, then forward the news you gather to a journalist who IS willing to gather further comments and IS willing to be held accountable for their journalistic integrity. It is something I, and many people have done in the past and should NOT be left out on Team Liquid. you're going to argue that a computer based organisation in 2011 should adhere to a west coast 9-5. Should an organization adhere to West Coast 9-5? Yes, if the heads of the organization are on the West Coast On July 22 2011 21:27 zeru wrote:On July 22 2011 21:18 Zlasher wrote:I don't believe that the basis that EG is truly evil should be made off of a news leak that followed a supposedly good conversation between Puma and his Coach. Especially since the news post was not made by EG themselves, on a player that is not yet signed. Also, blaming EG for not making a statement between the hours of 2:30 AM and 4 PM is obscene. Unlike Coach Lee or Europeans, that is not the proper time period for a statement that is to be made by an organization, not by SirScoots via twitter. Why should they make a short statement when a larger medium can be used to make such a statement. In real sports there are press conferences that happen a day or two later, do we bitch about how late the information comes or do we accept that it is the norm to use a larger platform to make an official statement? Would you be using the Blog section on TL to make your statement when you could be making a more public one? I think, and of course this is my opinion as I do not speak for others, that more obscene than any move EG makes is the lack of accountability in esports journalism. Whether someone is a paid journalist or a journalist by profession, if they put the article out than they are accountable for journalistic integrity. In the past, and currently in sports, if someone gets a leak in news they do not immediately write a news post themself with no legitimate statements from all sides. News leakers call up someone they know who is a TRUE JOURNALIST, takes in the information and gathers further comments required before posting out a large news article. If this is the standard in real sports then why can we not hold journalists to the same standard in esports? This is not even going into the fact that we have heard one side of the story which led to a MASSIVE hate bandwagon before anyone allows themself to hear the other side. Even to you TLO, EG's statement is seen as secondary, am I right? What if you had heard EG's side first and then the TSL commentary 24 hours later after a 150 page thread is created praising EG and blasting TSL? What if you had read this statement first? On July 22 2011 19:41 Rekrul wrote:
Coach Lee is a hypocrite and a liar. The way he stole Fruitdealer and Tester from OGS in the past was far worse in terms of deceit, lack of business ethics, and backstabbing.
It's not my place to go into details, but all I can say is: Karma is a bitch. I respect your opinion in the OP but I find trouble agreeing with you when constantly, journalistic integrity is broken. It is a standard that we have had in the past in esports, and have had in real sports, and something we have lost with the growth of Team Liquid's community driven news. My opinion? If you get news and don't want to be held accountable for the news post made, then forward the news you gather to a journalist who IS willing to gather further comments and IS willing to be held accountable for their journalistic integrity. It is something I, and many people have done in the past and should NOT be left out on Team Liquid. How hard can it be to make a short post about it? FXO does it, sixjax does it. Actually, EG are the only ones who don't. Saying its obscene to blame EG for not releasing a statement for 20(?!?!) hours and then attacking milkis for not trying to get EG's side of the story when he actually did try to get their side of the story, now that is unacceptable. Long terrible post with little logic. EG didn't release a statement for 20 hours? Actually it was 14 hours, 7 of which a sane human being is asleep for. The next 7 hours would have been more improper considering that plans were set to appear on a more public platform AKA WoC. Want another sports example? Why would EG have felt the need to comment on a playxp article that clearly had a few errors, especially on a player that is still in free agent state, that still is not a member of their organization. Do the Yankees officials ever comment on the player they're about to sign? How about FC Barcelona, or Manchester United? Nobody ever comments on it until the deal is done. so you think it would have been better if some random forum user had posted an inaccurate computer generated translation of the playxp article? Translating has nothing to do with journalism. If you want to blame anyone, go after playxp. But I guess thats too hard to do for both you and for EG while Milkis is a convenient target.
Omg this is so true...
I am so glad a pro-player's voice is speaking out. Thanks TLO! Sums it up perfectly.
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On July 22 2011 22:44 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 22:43 Snerren wrote:
Why are people so god damn worked up about this? Headhunting and playerscalping is common in every high level sport there is. And its not like they stole Puma and he did not want to join and is beeing forced to play with EG. They gave him an offer HE took it. What's the problem? in english football its illegal for you to contact any player under contract without the consent of the team he is contracted too
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Completely agree. Well said
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On July 22 2011 22:10 SafeAsCheese wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 22:04 StarStruck wrote:On July 22 2011 21:18 Zlasher wrote:What if you had read this statement first? On July 22 2011 19:41 Rekrul wrote:
Coach Lee is a hypocrite and a liar. The way he stole Fruitdealer and Tester from OGS in the past was far worse in terms of deceit, lack of business ethics, and backstabbing.
It's not my place to go into details, but all I can say is: Karma is a bitch. You quote Dan for your defense. Are you serious? I already gave my retort to this claim by Dan. He's simply egging others on and FD along with Tester left oGs on their own accord. Not Lee's. They wanted out. You should know what Dan is capable of and how he works considering you've been apart of this community for a while.Mind boggling. You bring up journalist standards once again. Seriously? These standards you speak of are nothing but hyperbole especially in this industry. Shit like this happens all the time. Again, Milkes isn't a journalist. Stop treating him like such. Let's discuss Milkes Twitter comments. Last time I checked, you are allowed to post your thoughts via Twitter on your personal account. Twitter is one way of retrieving information and it's just that. It's a resource and nothing more. Yes, real reporters use Twitter to break developing stories. However, no one in their right mind would view it as the actual story. It's only used for leads. Once again, Milkes. Translator. He translated an article on another site and brought it here. Twitter and the article he translated are two separate things. TL made it pretty clear that nobody "ignores the rules" now. If he is lying he deserves to be banned for saying that when the drama is happening.
lol, there's also a tl rule that says respect the old timers and since you have no idea about the history of tl and rekrul, you don't know that he has made much more outrageous claims in the past which have all turned out to be true.
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United States7481 Posts
On July 22 2011 21:48 Zlasher wrote:Agreed, translating isn't. Reporting news is. Like TBO said, we should point out the playxp writer then am I correct? Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 21:44 zeru wrote:On July 22 2011 21:40 Zlasher wrote:On July 22 2011 21:25 iGrok wrote:On July 22 2011 21:18 Zlasher wrote:I don't believe that the basis that EG is truly evil should be made off of a news leak that followed a supposedly good conversation between Puma and his Coach. Especially since the news post was not made by EG themselves, on a player that is not yet signed. Also, blaming EG for not making a statement between the hours of 2:30 AM and 4 PM is obscene. Unlike Coach Lee or Europeans, that is not the proper time period for a statement that is to be made by an organization, not by SirScoots via twitter. Why should they make a short statement when a larger medium can be used to make such a statement. In real sports there are press conferences that happen a day or two later, do we bitch about how late the information comes or do we accept that it is the norm to use a larger platform to make an official statement? Would you be using the Blog section on TL to make your statement when you could be making a more public one? I think, and of course this is my opinion as I do not speak for others, that more obscene than any move EG makes is the lack of accountability in esports journalism. Whether someone is a paid journalist or a journalist by profession, if they put the article out than they are accountable for journalistic integrity. In the past, and currently in sports, if someone gets a leak in news they do not immediately write a news post themself with no legitimate statements from all sides. News leakers call up someone they know who is a TRUE JOURNALIST, takes in the information and gathers further comments required before posting out a large news article. If this is the standard in real sports then why can we not hold journalists to the same standard in esports? This is not even going into the fact that we have heard one side of the story which led to a MASSIVE hate bandwagon before anyone allows themself to hear the other side. Even to you TLO, EG's statement is seen as secondary, am I right? What if you had heard EG's side first and then the TSL commentary 24 hours later after a 150 page thread is created praising EG and blasting TSL? What if you had read this statement first? On July 22 2011 19:41 Rekrul wrote:
Coach Lee is a hypocrite and a liar. The way he stole Fruitdealer and Tester from OGS in the past was far worse in terms of deceit, lack of business ethics, and backstabbing.
It's not my place to go into details, but all I can say is: Karma is a bitch. I respect your opinion in the OP but I find trouble agreeing with you when constantly, journalistic integrity is broken. It is a standard that we have had in the past in esports, and have had in real sports, and something we have lost with the growth of Team Liquid's community driven news. My opinion? If you get news and don't want to be held accountable for the news post made, then forward the news you gather to a journalist who IS willing to gather further comments and IS willing to be held accountable for their journalistic integrity. It is something I, and many people have done in the past and should NOT be left out on Team Liquid. Are you really STILL going after Milkis? Are you fucking kidding me? Not attacking Milkis, I was attacking bad journalism, something that I explained has a "fix", in that post. But I suppose you didn't read it. On July 22 2011 21:27 turdburgler wrote:On July 22 2011 21:18 Zlasher wrote:I don't believe that the basis that EG is truly evil should be made off of a news leak that followed a supposedly good conversation between Puma and his Coach. Especially since the news post was not made by EG themselves, on a player that is not yet signed. Also, blaming EG for not making a statement between the hours of 2:30 AM and 4 PM is obscene. Unlike Coach Lee or Europeans, that is not the proper time period for a statement that is to be made by an organization, not by SirScoots via twitter. Why should they make a short statement when a larger medium can be used to make such a statement. In real sports there are press conferences that happen a day or two later, do we bitch about how late the information comes or do we accept that it is the norm to use a larger platform to make an official statement? Would you be using the Blog section on TL to make your statement when you could be making a more public one? I think, and of course this is my opinion as I do not speak for others, that more obscene than any move EG makes is the lack of accountability in esports journalism. Whether someone is a paid journalist or a journalist by profession, if they put the article out than they are accountable for journalistic integrity. In the past, and currently in sports, if someone gets a leak in news they do not immediately write a news post themself with no legitimate statements from all sides. News leakers call up someone they know who is a TRUE JOURNALIST, takes in the information and gathers further comments required before posting out a large news article. If this is the standard in real sports then why can we not hold journalists to the same standard in esports? This is not even going into the fact that we have heard one side of the story which led to a MASSIVE hate bandwagon before anyone allows themself to hear the other side. Even to you TLO, EG's statement is seen as secondary, am I right? What if you had heard EG's side first and then the TSL commentary 24 hours later after a 150 page thread is created praising EG and blasting TSL? What if you had read this statement first? On July 22 2011 19:41 Rekrul wrote:
Coach Lee is a hypocrite and a liar. The way he stole Fruitdealer and Tester from OGS in the past was far worse in terms of deceit, lack of business ethics, and backstabbing.
It's not my place to go into details, but all I can say is: Karma is a bitch. I respect your opinion in the OP but I find trouble agreeing with you when constantly, journalistic integrity is broken. It is a standard that we have had in the past in esports, and have had in real sports, and something we have lost with the growth of Team Liquid's community driven news. My opinion? If you get news and don't want to be held accountable for the news post made, then forward the news you gather to a journalist who IS willing to gather further comments and IS willing to be held accountable for their journalistic integrity. It is something I, and many people have done in the past and should NOT be left out on Team Liquid. you're going to argue that a computer based organisation in 2011 should adhere to a west coast 9-5. Should an organization adhere to West Coast 9-5? Yes, if the heads of the organization are on the West Coast On July 22 2011 21:27 zeru wrote:On July 22 2011 21:18 Zlasher wrote:I don't believe that the basis that EG is truly evil should be made off of a news leak that followed a supposedly good conversation between Puma and his Coach. Especially since the news post was not made by EG themselves, on a player that is not yet signed. Also, blaming EG for not making a statement between the hours of 2:30 AM and 4 PM is obscene. Unlike Coach Lee or Europeans, that is not the proper time period for a statement that is to be made by an organization, not by SirScoots via twitter. Why should they make a short statement when a larger medium can be used to make such a statement. In real sports there are press conferences that happen a day or two later, do we bitch about how late the information comes or do we accept that it is the norm to use a larger platform to make an official statement? Would you be using the Blog section on TL to make your statement when you could be making a more public one? I think, and of course this is my opinion as I do not speak for others, that more obscene than any move EG makes is the lack of accountability in esports journalism. Whether someone is a paid journalist or a journalist by profession, if they put the article out than they are accountable for journalistic integrity. In the past, and currently in sports, if someone gets a leak in news they do not immediately write a news post themself with no legitimate statements from all sides. News leakers call up someone they know who is a TRUE JOURNALIST, takes in the information and gathers further comments required before posting out a large news article. If this is the standard in real sports then why can we not hold journalists to the same standard in esports? This is not even going into the fact that we have heard one side of the story which led to a MASSIVE hate bandwagon before anyone allows themself to hear the other side. Even to you TLO, EG's statement is seen as secondary, am I right? What if you had heard EG's side first and then the TSL commentary 24 hours later after a 150 page thread is created praising EG and blasting TSL? What if you had read this statement first? On July 22 2011 19:41 Rekrul wrote:
Coach Lee is a hypocrite and a liar. The way he stole Fruitdealer and Tester from OGS in the past was far worse in terms of deceit, lack of business ethics, and backstabbing.
It's not my place to go into details, but all I can say is: Karma is a bitch. I respect your opinion in the OP but I find trouble agreeing with you when constantly, journalistic integrity is broken. It is a standard that we have had in the past in esports, and have had in real sports, and something we have lost with the growth of Team Liquid's community driven news. My opinion? If you get news and don't want to be held accountable for the news post made, then forward the news you gather to a journalist who IS willing to gather further comments and IS willing to be held accountable for their journalistic integrity. It is something I, and many people have done in the past and should NOT be left out on Team Liquid. How hard can it be to make a short post about it? FXO does it, sixjax does it. Actually, EG are the only ones who don't. Saying its obscene to blame EG for not releasing a statement for 20(?!?!) hours and then attacking milkis for not trying to get EG's side of the story when he actually did try to get their side of the story, now that is unacceptable. Long terrible post with little logic. EG didn't release a statement for 20 hours? Actually it was 14 hours, 7 of which a sane human being is asleep for. The next 7 hours would have been more improper considering that plans were set to appear on a more public platform AKA WoC. Want another sports example? Why would EG have felt the need to comment on a playxp article that clearly had a few errors, especially on a player that is still in free agent state, that still is not a member of their organization. Do the Yankees officials ever comment on the player they're about to sign? How about FC Barcelona, or Manchester United? Nobody ever comments on it until the deal is done. Scoots was awake and was tweeting with milkis and could've easily made a post right after the translation was posted. all i can see are terrible excuses for how awfully they handled basically everything regarding this issue. But does Scoots speak 100% for the organization, or should he wait til Alex can speak as well, or wait til the more public platform exists to speak on, once accepting the public platform. Once again, all for a player that is still technically a free agent and unsigned. If news about a trade happens in baseball for the SF Giants, and I see Bruce Bochy tweet something, do I feel entitled to an immediate statement from him? Do I feel entitled to an immediate statement from Brian Sabean (the General Manager), or do I wait until the public platform (the press conference) happens in order to hear it then.
you can't have it both ways... you say you want it to be like real sports but reporters on espn, sportsillustrated, yahoo sports, and EVERYWHERE always report about rumors of players being signed. when they get something credible (as this obviously is) they don't wait for the official press conference introducing the player to report it. they say what's going on, and this is no different.
edit: and this is just talking about the playxp article, not even the translation (on which milkis is completely blameless)
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Why are people calling milkis a journalist? Is that actually his job title? I thought he was just a translator. seems like people shooting the messenger to me.
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On July 22 2011 22:48 PassiveAce wrote:
Why are people calling milkis a journalist? Is that actually his job title? I thought he was just a translator. seems like people shooting the messenger to me.
They absolutely are. Somehow, because Milkis is simply translating an already-completed news article from one language to another he is now as responsible as the original author?
Ridiculous. As far as the actual poaching, I blame TSL in part for not contracting their players. However, I also blame EG for not being above-board with the transaction (talking to the player directly instead of the organization) and not responding to community concerns in a prompt fashion. Shame on you.
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On July 22 2011 22:46 ThaddeusK wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 22:44 turdburgler wrote:On July 22 2011 22:43 Snerren wrote:
Why are people so god damn worked up about this? Headhunting and playerscalping is common in every high level sport there is. And its not like they stole Puma and he did not want to join and is beeing forced to play with EG. They gave him an offer HE took it. What's the problem? in english football its illegal for you to contact any player under contract without the consent of the team he is contracted too
i was just replying to the post, not specifically this situation.
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On July 22 2011 22:09 OpticalShot wrote:
...
EG isn't a new team to the scene. They have been around for many years and they probably want to be around for many years more, as a better team. However, the point here, is that they should have known the consequences. It's not like EG never watched how things work in Korea. SC2 and its leagues have been out for long enough time for EG to know how things operate there. They should have expected disappointment from TSL's coach and staff, they should have anticipated that interviews and statements would be made available pretty quickly. Even if EG didn't have enough time to respond to TSL coach's interview, they should have already prepared several original statements regarding the acquisition of Puma and their stance on this issue. It's obvious there are time zone differences and teams should have already taken this into account. E-sports is global, and that implies while you're sleeping, articles and interviews can pop up halfway around the globe. You simply can't use it as an excuse for being unprepared.
..
This quote rounds up my opinion on the whole subject. We can debate all we want the actual EG approaching Puma --- PuMa telling his team, but the truth is we dont totally know what happened and what PuMa really asked for, so I think its hard to debate on that.
Going for an attack on Milkis though is totally unnacceptable. I dont know what EG expected, sure you can preach all you want for objectivity in journalism but this is totally pointless if one side doesnt do his job. Even saying that such a thing (as objectivity in journalism) even exists in real sports is a pretty naive statement. If such a news would get out for any real sport you want, and one party wouldnt do its job to issue comments on the question (and Im talking even before an official statement), the journalist wouldnt put their side of the story.
tl dr.
-Its not the journalists job to get the opinion of both sides
-EG should have known that this was coming and prepared something, instead of not doing anything and then go on a witch-hunt so they could put the blame on someone because they didnt do their job.
-As far as I know Milkis is not even a journalist hes just a translator, which further proves how EG is just trying to find someone to point so the focus doesnt stay on them too much.
edit : for zlasher, coach lee could be the biggest asshole to ever exist, that wouldnt change the fact that EG was totally unprofessionnal regarding this issue, while they (a professional organisation), ask for a translator (pretty sure hes not a professional, not his job) to act professionally. Double standard much. Dont know how you can possibly defend that.
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I am having a very hard time trying to understand what is this much of a big deal in signing an uncontracted player and I would appreciate if someone helped me with this. Yes, they could talk to coach Lee, who is someone that wouldn't force one of his players to stay in the team. Hell, he doesn't even force his contracted players to even practice. But I don't think he has a right to get mad when someone offers a contract (possibly a fat one) to an uncontracted player, even though he plays for his team.
On July 22 2011 22:44 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 22:43 Snerren wrote:
Why are people so god damn worked up about this? Headhunting and playerscalping is common in every high level sport there is. And its not like they stole Puma and he did not want to join and is beeing forced to play with EG. They gave him an offer HE took it. What's the problem? in english football its illegal for you to contact any player under contract without the consent of the team he is contracted too
You can approach any contracted player whose contract has less than or equal to 6 months of a time remaining without giving a fuck to his team. Bosman ruling allows that.
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On July 22 2011 22:43 Snerren wrote:
Why are people so god damn worked up about this? Headhunting and playerscalping is common in every high level sport there is. And its not like they stole Puma and he did not want to join and is beeing forced to play with EG. They gave him an offer HE took it. What's the problem?
In most American sports, Team A has to inform Team B of any interest in one of Team B's players. This situation is a bit different because Puma was technically a free agent (not under contract), but as none of the TSL players were under explicit contract it must be assumed that they have some kind of verbal compact that should be treated as equal to a written one.
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On July 22 2011 22:52 Bona Fide wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 22:43 Snerren wrote:
Why are people so god damn worked up about this? Headhunting and playerscalping is common in every high level sport there is. And its not like they stole Puma and he did not want to join and is beeing forced to play with EG. They gave him an offer HE took it. What's the problem? In most American sports, Team A has to inform Team B of any interest in one of Team B's players. This situation is a bit different because Puma was technically a free agent (not under contract), but as none of the TSL players were under explicit contract it must be assumed that they have some kind of verbal compact that should be treated as equal to a written one.
Some were under contract, some were not. PuMa was among the latter.
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Thank god someone (important) posted this. I've been thinking this since the start but on my level it just results in a flame war at best. Thank you Little One. <3
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The only thing that upsets me about this whole thing is how Milkis was brought on to Weapon of Choice (a EG biased show) and asked to argue his points and to be held accountable for his actions against a experienced PR person when in reality he had no reason to defend himself whatsoever.
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On July 22 2011 22:52 Djagulingu wrote:I am having a very hard time trying to understand what is this much of a big deal in signing an uncontracted player and I would appreciate if someone helped me with this. Yes, they could talk to coach Lee, who is someone that wouldn't force one of his players to stay in the team. Hell, he doesn't even force his contracted players to even practice. But I don't think he has a right to get mad when someone offers a contract (possibly a fat one) to an uncontracted player, even though he plays for his team. Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 22:44 turdburgler wrote:On July 22 2011 22:43 Snerren wrote:
Why are people so god damn worked up about this? Headhunting and playerscalping is common in every high level sport there is. And its not like they stole Puma and he did not want to join and is beeing forced to play with EG. They gave him an offer HE took it. What's the problem? in english football its illegal for you to contact any player under contract without the consent of the team he is contracted too You can approach any contracted player whose contract has less than or equal to 6 months of a time remaining without giving a fuck to his team. Bosman ruling allows that.
the majority of times that never comes up though, because players will allow themselves to be signed again so the team they play for has a better bargaining position. and any player of any relevance doesnt sit around with only 6months left on their contract.
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On July 22 2011 22:52 Djagulingu wrote:I am having a very hard time trying to understand what is this much of a big deal in signing an uncontracted player and I would appreciate if someone helped me with this. Yes, they could talk to coach Lee, who is someone that wouldn't force one of his players to stay in the team. Hell, he doesn't even force his contracted players to even practice. But I don't think he has a right to get mad when someone offers a contract (possibly a fat one) to an uncontracted player, even though he plays for his team. Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 22:44 turdburgler wrote:On July 22 2011 22:43 Snerren wrote:
Why are people so god damn worked up about this? Headhunting and playerscalping is common in every high level sport there is. And its not like they stole Puma and he did not want to join and is beeing forced to play with EG. They gave him an offer HE took it. What's the problem? in english football its illegal for you to contact any player under contract without the consent of the team he is contracted too You can approach any contracted player whose contract has less than or equal to 6 months of a time remaining without giving a fuck to his team. Bosman ruling allows that.
Because 40% of the people here are carebears and the other 40% of the people here don't know professional sports and so they don't realize this is rather common.
Let's not even mention in other professions where being approached by headhunters is perfectly normal as well.
Then there's the 20% normal people who realize this is perfectly fine and not wrong at all, given Puma wasn't under contract (from what I've read) and he accepted the terms to join EG, no one forced him at gunpoint. This is still a business people, the pro gamers don't play solely to entertain you.
EDIT: Also forgot to mention that hidden among this angry mob are EG/IdrA haters who just want to see EG's reputation go down.
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EPT
