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On July 22 2011 22:57 ct2299 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 22:52 Djagulingu wrote:I am having a very hard time trying to understand what is this much of a big deal in signing an uncontracted player and I would appreciate if someone helped me with this. Yes, they could talk to coach Lee, who is someone that wouldn't force one of his players to stay in the team. Hell, he doesn't even force his contracted players to even practice. But I don't think he has a right to get mad when someone offers a contract (possibly a fat one) to an uncontracted player, even though he plays for his team. On July 22 2011 22:44 turdburgler wrote:On July 22 2011 22:43 Snerren wrote:
Why are people so god damn worked up about this? Headhunting and playerscalping is common in every high level sport there is. And its not like they stole Puma and he did not want to join and is beeing forced to play with EG. They gave him an offer HE took it. What's the problem? in english football its illegal for you to contact any player under contract without the consent of the team he is contracted too You can approach any contracted player whose contract has less than or equal to 6 months of a time remaining without giving a fuck to his team. Bosman ruling allows that. Because 40% of the people here are carebears and the other 40% of the people here don't know professional sports and so they don't realize this is rather common. Let's not even mention in other professions where being approached by headhunters is perfectly normal as well. Then there's the 20% normal people who realize this is perfectly fine and not wrong at all, given Puma wasn't under contract (from what I've read) and he accepted the terms to join EG, no one forced him at gunpoint. This is still a business people, the pro gamers don't play solely to entertain you. EDIT: Also forgot to mention that hidden among this angry mob are EG/IdrA haters who just want to see EG's reputation go down.
and maybe just a couple people that think honor means something to korean teams where esports was birthed.
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Attacking Milkis = not ok
Contacting a player not under contract - ok
TLO says "keeps acting" like EG does all this time but posts nothing to back it up - not ok
TLO not understanding how contracting works, but still insists on stating that EG has some kind of fault here - not ok
If a player in any sports are not contracted, the team does not have to contact the team to talk to the player. Its how it works.
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TLO ive never been a big fan of yours until now but you just said everything i was thinking.
Given the roots of how progaming evolved into how it is now, i find it hard to believe any old bw fan can be happy with how this whole thing turned out.
Just be careful when you are around EG management or on any of their shows, you might just get ambushed.
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On July 22 2011 22:59 Sqq wrote:
Attacking Milkis = not ok
Contacting a player not under contract - ok
TLO says "keeps acting" like EG does all this time but posts nothing to back it up - not ok
TLO not understanding how contracting works, but still insists on stating that EG has some kind of fault here - not ok
If a player in any sports are not contracted, the team does not have to contact the team to talk to the player. Its how it works.
of course does not have to. but it would be dishonorable not to.
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TLO, you are one of my favorite players in the SCII scene, but I have to say that this thread by itself is nothing but a seed of hate, as the thread has wonderfully demonstrated.
You should be glad if you feel like you are in the right place with TeamLiquid, but there might be more appropriate ways to express this than through bashing EG.
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I may be missing parts of the story, but I think they fully lived up to their name. Even if what they did constitutes rat-bastardary, that's just business. EG needs to do what it needs to in order to make money. Puma is going to get EG much more press both in Korea and internationally. Puma will be able to sell EG's brand in a way that even IdrA couldn't do. Additionally, the more EG wins, the more sponsors the team will get, and, in the end, regardless of how manner the SC2 scene is supposed to be, money will trump even that. TLO is my favorite player in and out of SC2, but if a team offered me $5,000 to call him a piece-of-shit-noob in-game, and to dance marines in his base, I would take the money.
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It was really dirty how EG handle this. Waiting like 18 hours to make a statement so they could do it on WoC, a show that is sponsored half by EG/Scoots (?) and have all EG's sponsors behind it. And then AG comes on and is being a total tool never letting Milkis (a guy that isn't even representing TSL so it is sooo one sided) his point before getting cut off and djwheat didn't do shit. I fucking hate how he was twisting everything and starts rabbling about the BW scene, a scene he has no fucking clue about. But yeah good job getting the attention away from how fucking poorly you approached PuMa and the other players on NASL.
Too bad someone like TheWinD, Nazgul or FXOBoSs couldn't join the discussion when AG started to rant about the Korea and internationall scene and BW etc.
Also, fucking cheap shot attacking Milkis.
On July 22 2011 23:01 Oldern wrote:
TLO, you are one of my favorite players in the SCII scene, but I have to say that this thread by itself is nothing but a seed of hate, as the thread has wonderfully demonstrated.
This is not a thread, it's a blog and it's a blog on his "own" website, he can write whatever he wants here.
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Germany1287 Posts
Milkis is first and foremost a fan, a community member, a contributer to ESPORTS. He is not a "journalist", he is also not "just a translator". Contrary to some other entities in our scene, he doesn't do things only for the money and the business, but because he wants to contribute and because he thinks people might find the things that he does (=mostly translating) useful.
Some imbeciles might not realize this, some shady people try to turn attention and blame on our good contributor here for their business sakes. Luckily, the StarCraft scene is quite bright and will not be blinded by these shades of distraction. These parties will get what they deserve, sooner or later. Don't turn on Milkis for no reason, you're going down.
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On July 22 2011 22:59 Sqq wrote:
If a player in any sports are not contracted, the team does not have to contact the team to talk to the player. Its how it works.
I think some are kind of narrow in their perspective of "how it works". This is South Korea, and they have apparently handled things another way. That is probably about to change very soon - but don't be so fast to judge what is considered right or wrong in another culture.
That is why it is so awesome to have Milkis to provide us with some insight as to why they think it is wrong, and why they have so far handled it another way. Ty Milkis.
Also thank you TLO for writing up a very good summary of this.
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On July 22 2011 23:05 mbr2321 wrote:
I may be missing parts of the story, but I think they fully lived up to their name. Even if what they did constitutes rat-bastardary, that's just business. EG needs to do what it needs to in order to make money. Puma is going to get EG much more press both in Korea and internationally. Puma will be able to sell EG's brand in a way that even IdrA couldn't do. Additionally, the more EG wins, the more sponsors the team will get, and, in the end, regardless of how manner the SC2 scene is supposed to be, money will trump even that. TLO is my favorite player in and out of SC2, but if a team offered me $5,000 to call him a piece-of-shit-noob in-game, and to dance marines in his base, I would take the money.
That makes you a sad spineless individual.
Just like EG.
Get morals or humanity is doomed.
How much would it cost me to get you to call your own mother a whore and shit in her bed?
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United States4053 Posts
I see there are a lot of people (in other threads perhaps) arguing that this is smart business practice by EG, and pointing out that contracting free agents like this must be OK because it's common in other sports. I heartily disagree. There is no comparison between eSports and other sports. On top of that, if this is the kind of "common sports practice" that businesses hope to bring to the Starcraft scene, then I hope that eSports stays as different as possible from mainstream sports.
Sure, EG came out of this with PuMa, one of the strongest terrans in the scene, but the PR backlash is undeniable. We're not even seeing the brunt of it - I hear over in the Korean scene there is much more outrage. eSports dealings have traditionally been infused with a very high level of sportsmanship. Shady business like this, while legal, does no good for the atmosphere of SC.
Compare the way EG dealt with TSL and the way FXO dealt with fOu. EG talks to PuMa directly (and apparently to other players as well, in hopes of goading just one top player into leaving their team). FXO builds up a strong relationship over time, and when fOu asks FXO to sponsor their team, a strong global cooperation is formed.
I don't think this mindset is just the trappings of the old BW days which should be discarded. I think teams should head forward with a spirit of global cooperation rather than businesslike competition.
EDIT: In any case, I think TLO has said it pretty brilliantly (albeit at some points a bit vindictively).
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My respect went up for you even higher after reading that. Thanks for sharing your opinion.
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Attacking milkis is like attacking kittens, it's not going to help anyone's cause.
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On July 22 2011 22:59 Sqq wrote:
If a player in any sports are not contracted, the team does not have to contact the team to talk to the player. Its how it works.
If a Team in any sport is trying to get a high profile player, news outlets like playxp will report about it as soon as they have a credible source (which TSL manager is). It's how it work.
Yet EG is all hurt about that. They seem to be professionals when it comes to contracts but don't understand how media works.
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TLO <3 How do you not love the guy
Btw some misses the point
Could EG do what they did? Yes
Was it respectfull: No . Most people are just discussing this part. Good for Puma! The way this was handled is just terribad, overlooking cultural differencies.
It is good or bad for esports? We will see....
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On July 22 2011 23:06 zere wrote:
Milkis is first and foremost a fan, a community member, a contributer to ESPORTS. He is not a "journalist", he is also not "just a translator". Contrary to some other entities in our scene, he doesn't do things only for the money and the business, but because he wants to contribute and because he thinks people might find the things that he does (=mostly translating) useful.
Some imbeciles might not realize this, some shady people try to turn attention and blame on our good contributor here for their business sakes. Luckily, the StarCraft scene is quite bright and will not be blinded by these shades of distraction. These parties will get what they deserve, sooner or later. Don't turn on Milkis for no reason, you're going down.
I think this whole affair shows quite the opposite and that the starcraft scene is rather blind to how business works. I think its unfair to blame milkis i would agree with that but the EG director was making a more broad point.
Korea doesnt have sole rights on SC2, why should the international scene adhere to what the korean culture thinks is right. Korea should adapt to the rest of the world not the other way around if they are too stupid to contract their best player they deserve to lose him.
I honestly am suprised and dissapointed at how much hate EG is getting for making a perfectly reasonable and fair business transaction. Im sorry if people think the world is honourable and all sunshine and rainbows but its not. So congratulations EG on picking up an awesome player and i hope to see him play in more foreign events .
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On July 22 2011 20:14 Liquid`TLO wrote:The news went out before you wanted it and guess what it's because you didn't talk to TSL. Even though they had weeks after NASL to do so.
Dosent seem like TLO is up to date with why they dident contact TSL in that time... they were waiting for Puma to talk to him first as they have already said on WoC.
Dident think TLO was the kind of guy to post pure hate blogs that dont offer anything good but just makes it even worse. 
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Just flushed every single bit of respect i had for TLO down the drain.
seriously, as a popular figure i expected you to share your opinios regarding EG that will atleast include their side of the story, and explain yourself from EG perspective as well, but instead all you gave was a totally one sided POV That included only the negative things That in your opinion EG did "wrong", While IRL EG did absolutely nothing wrong regarding this situation.
and all the milkies "accusing" thingy is also complitely retarded, AG Mentioned in the end of WoC that he was sorry if milkies felt accused by him (when IRL he wasnt accused on anything, he just overreacted when AG asked him why he havnt brought any statement from EG' side) but guess what ? YOU and every other EG hater just comfortably forgot that part and saw AG statement as a 100% malicious Accusition.
Dident think TLO was the kind of guy to post pure hate blogs that dont offer anything good but just makes it even worse.
QFT
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United States4053 Posts
On July 22 2011 23:14 Zaros wrote:
I honestly am suprised and dissapointed at how much hate EG is getting for making a perfectly reasonable and fair business transaction. Im sorry if people think the world is honourable and all sunshine and rainbows but its not. So congratulations EG on picking up an awesome player and i hope to see him play in more foreign events .
The world of SC is imperfect. But is that because it intrinsically must be so, or because certain people/organizations have made it so? And do we wish it to be "sunshine and rainbows," or are we OK with "reasonable" business transactions like this all over the place?
Let's not assume this is OK just because it doesn't cross any written line.
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Nazgul picks them well. 
Thanks for sharing your opinion.
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EPT
