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Active: 2234 users

China Enacts Law to Stop Taiwan Secession

Forum Index > General Forum
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EvilTeletubby
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
Baltimore, USA22259 Posts
March 13 2005 09:50 GMT
#1
Bleh, hopefully they're all talk. Unfortunately, the Chinese government would be the type to go through with it. T.T

China Enacts Law to Stop Taiwan Secession

Sunday, March 13, 2005
BEIJING - China's national legislature on Monday overwhelmingly approved a law authorizing a military attack to stop Taiwan from pursuing formal independence, a day after President Hu Jintao told the 2.5 million-member People's Liberation Army to be prepared for war.

The measure was approved by a vote of 2,896 to zero, with two abstentions on the last day of the figurehead National People's Congress' annual session.

"We shall step up preparations for possible military struggle and enhance our capabilities to cope with crises, safeguard peace, prevent wars and win the wars if any," the official Xinhua News Agency quoted Hu as saying Sunday.

Hu's comments, made to military delegates at the national legislature, appeared aimed at underlining Beijing's determination to unify with democratically ruled Taiwan, which split from the Chinese mainland in 1949.

Also Sunday, Hu was appointed as chairman of the government's Central Military Commission, a largely symbolic move that capped a generational transfer of power. He already heads a parallel party commission that runs China's military.

Hu, 62, has shown no sign of diverging from former President Jiang Zemin's hard-line stance toward Taiwan, a democratically ruled island that Beijing insists is part of the communist mainland.

The two sides split in a civil war more than 50 years ago, and Beijing has long threatened to invade if Taipei takes formal steps toward independence.

The anti-secession law passed Monday is aimed at discouraging self-ruled Taiwan, which Beijing claims as its territory, from making its de facto independence permanent.

"We must ... always place the task of defending national sovereignty, security and territorial integrity and safeguarding the interests of national development above anything else," Xinhua quoted Hu as telling military delegates to the congress.

Delegates to the NPC burst into applause after the approval of the law, shown live on national television.

"This law ... represents the people's determination not to allow Taiwan to be separated from China by any means or any excuses," said Wu Bangguo, China's No. 2 leader and chairman of the parliament.

Taiwan's government has condemned the law, saying it risks raising tensions. The United States also appealed to China not to enact the measure.

Taiwanese President Chen Shui-bian has said it "enables China to unilaterally decide Taiwan's future and ignore that Taiwanese have the right to choose a democratic and free lifestyle."

The United States would be Taiwan's most likely defender if China attacked. Washington is lobbying strongly against European Union plans to lift a 15-year-old arms embargo against China, arguing that high-tech European weapons might be used against Taiwanese or U.S. forces.

Hu replaced Jiang as Communist Party leader in 2002 and as president the next year, as power passed to a new generation of Chinese leaders. He succeeded Jiang as head of the party's military commission in September.

Analysts say Jiang, 78, still exerts influence, but not to the extent that his predecessor, Deng Xiaoping, did after retiring from his government posts. Deng was considered China's paramount leader until his death in 1997.

Unlike earlier Chinese leaders who were revered as heroes of the 1949 communist revolution, neither Hu nor Jiang has military experience.

The Communist Party newspaper People's Daily said Sunday that the anti-secession law "shows the Chinese people's common will and firm determination of safeguarding territorial integrity and sovereignty and absolutely does not allow Taiwan independence forces to separate Taiwan from China by any name or by any means."

Jiang, a former Shanghai mayor, was chosen to head the party in 1989 in the tumult that followed the military crackdown on pro-democracy protests centered on Tiananmen Square in Beijing.

He served as president from 1993-2003. During his leadership, China boomed economically even as it remained an authoritarian one-party political system.
Moderatorhttp://carbonleaf.yuku.com/topic/408/t/So-I-proposed-at-a-Carbon-Leaf-concert.html ***** RIP Geoff
MannerKiss
Profile Joined June 2003
United States2398 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-03-13 09:58:03
March 13 2005 09:55 GMT
#2
do you have a source?

EDIT: not acuseing, just very curious
EDIT 2 found it on CNN

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/03/13/china.npc.hu.reut/index.html
I want an igloo.
KH1031
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
United States862 Posts
March 13 2005 10:01 GMT
#3
Communists=barbarians

they don't talk, just do what they want

-_-

and for the record, I am from Taiwan.
Cambium
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States16368 Posts
March 13 2005 10:03 GMT
#4
It's not going to happen. They are just saying it so Taiwan wouldn't try to declare independence.
When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.
Cambium
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States16368 Posts
March 13 2005 10:04 GMT
#5
On March 13 2005 19:01 KH1031 wrote:
Communists=barbarians

they don't talk, just do what they want

-_-

and for the record, I am from Taiwan.


They could've attacked that island years ago, but they didn't. They are happy with the way things are right now.
When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.
MoltkeWarding
Profile Joined November 2003
5195 Posts
March 13 2005 10:05 GMT
#6
On March 13 2005 19:01 KH1031 wrote:
Communists=barbarians

they don't talk, just do what they want

-_-

and for the record, I am from Taiwan.


Nationalists = inefficient evil empire of power hungry warlords who double dealt with the Japanese to wipe the heroic communist resistance out. We can start spewing idiotic propaganda back and forth all day. Really, it would be a pleasant surprise some day to see someone from over there who bothers to think for themselves regarding politics.
EvilTeletubby
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
Baltimore, USA22259 Posts
March 13 2005 10:06 GMT
#7
On March 13 2005 19:04 Cambium wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 13 2005 19:01 KH1031 wrote:
Communists=barbarians

they don't talk, just do what they want

-_-

and for the record, I am from Taiwan.


They could've attacked that island years ago, but they didn't. They are happy with the way things are right now.


Well, they were happy with Taiwan being basically indepent, just not FORMALLY, and I think Taiwanese are relatively happy (this is just a guess, if anyone here is actually from Taiwan, please correct me) with being independent, just not formally... but if Taiwan were to make that push, I think China would push back.
Moderatorhttp://carbonleaf.yuku.com/topic/408/t/So-I-proposed-at-a-Carbon-Leaf-concert.html ***** RIP Geoff
Cambium
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States16368 Posts
March 13 2005 10:09 GMT
#8
On March 13 2005 19:06 EvilTeletubby wrote:

but if Taiwan were to make that push, I think China would push back.


Exactly, I'll quote something:
大陆将领﹕台不「独」我不打


I'll translate it,
Chinese Leaders: As long as Taiwan does not declare independence [formally], we will not attack.
When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.
LeJester
Profile Joined July 2003
United States211 Posts
March 13 2005 10:09 GMT
#9
The Taiwanese arent suicidal, they weren't going to be declaring independence anytime soon; this just seems like posturing on the part of the chinese. Anyway it wouldnt be worth it for us to defend Taiwan at this point...its not like China can be called communist anymore.
No seriously, Im not kidding.
MoltkeWarding
Profile Joined November 2003
5195 Posts
March 13 2005 10:12 GMT
#10
On March 13 2005 19:09 LeJester wrote:
The Taiwanese arent suicidal, they weren't going to be declaring independence anytime soon; this just seems like posturing on the part of the chinese. Anyway it wouldnt be worth it for us to defend Taiwan at this point...its not like China can be called communist anymore.


So American foreign policy should be based on whether a country is considered communist or not in the oval office? Isn't that what has been wrong with American foreign policy since 1917?
Cambium
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States16368 Posts
March 13 2005 10:14 GMT
#11
On March 13 2005 19:12 MoltkeWarding wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 13 2005 19:09 LeJester wrote:
The Taiwanese arent suicidal, they weren't going to be declaring independence anytime soon; this just seems like posturing on the part of the chinese. Anyway it wouldnt be worth it for us to defend Taiwan at this point...its not like China can be called communist anymore.


So American foreign policy should be based on whether a country is considered communist or not in the oval office? Isn't that what has been wrong with American foreign policy since 1917?


I think his last sentence should be ignored.

He makes a good point with the U.S. probably won't defend Taiwan (as much) -__-
When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.
LeJester
Profile Joined July 2003
United States211 Posts
March 13 2005 10:19 GMT
#12
On March 13 2005 19:12 MoltkeWarding wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 13 2005 19:09 LeJester wrote:
The Taiwanese arent suicidal, they weren't going to be declaring independence anytime soon; this just seems like posturing on the part of the chinese. Anyway it wouldnt be worth it for us to defend Taiwan at this point...its not like China can be called communist anymore.


So American foreign policy should be based on whether a country is considered communist or not in the oval office? Isn't that what has been wrong with American foreign policy since 1917?


What I meant was simply that the old justification for us having a heavy military investment in Taiwan is long gone, I wasn't saying that our Cold War policy was an effective one.
No seriously, Im not kidding.
Luhh
Profile Joined October 2003
Sweden2974 Posts
March 13 2005 10:24 GMT
#13
Some of you yongsters are confused.

Communism is an ideology. However there haven't been a single "communist" state that has been a true communist state. They are in practical terms ruled by a dictator or despots. I think it's just plain wrong to acknowledge those states as communist states

Let's just say that some communists are more equal than others...
I wouldn´t call him stupid, but let´s just say he´s unlucky when thinking...
cAtAcLySmIc
Profile Joined July 2004
United States552 Posts
March 13 2005 10:32 GMT
#14
China can't afford to go to war against Taiwan, that would involve fighting against the US which they cannot beat and they would lose the US for trade and since the US is a major importer of their products, the Chinese economy would plunge.
Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, professionals built the Titanic
KH1031
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
United States862 Posts
March 13 2005 10:33 GMT
#15
As far as I know, Taiwan functions as an independent nation up to this date, but slowly it is losing its international status. Now Taiwan is treated mere as a subsidiary of the communist China, as opposed to a independent, sovernign nation. As a Taiwanese, I feel that we should have the right to decide what to do with our future, as opposed to being restricted by some funny law that another regime has made up.

1. If the Koreans can have two different nations because of different political beliefs, why can't it be so with the Chinese?

2. And besides, I strongly disagree with the fact that communist China is in a way, threatening Taiwanese people not to act a certain way(opting for independence) on the grounds of national unity. The fact is that China and Taiwan parted their ways ever since 1949, they were never united together ever since. Now they're treating Taiwan as part of their territory and is subject to the jurisdiction of Communist Chinese laws - to me this is simply absurd.

Ever since the 1970's, Communist China stripped Taiwan's priviledge as a nation and it's international recognition slowly. First they forced Taiwan out of the United Nations (Reason being that the Communist China is the "real" Chinese government), then they're saying that there is only one China, and it is the Communist "Red" China (which it clearly isn't). AND THE FUNNY THING IS THAT EVERYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD AGREED WITH THEM.
Pacifist
Profile Joined October 2003
Israel1683 Posts
March 13 2005 10:40 GMT
#16
anyways, yeah US > North Korea and China > Taiwan
Riding a bike is overrated.
MoltkeWarding
Profile Joined November 2003
5195 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-03-13 10:43:25
March 13 2005 10:42 GMT
#17
On March 13 2005 19:33 KH1031 wrote:
As far as I know, Taiwan functions as an independent nation up to this date, but slowly it is losing its international status. Now Taiwan is treated mere as a subsidiary of the communist China, as opposed to a independent, sovernign nation. As a Taiwanese, I feel that we should have the right to decide what to do with our future, as opposed to being restricted by some funny law that another regime has made up.

1. If the Koreans can have two different nations because of different political beliefs, why can't it be so with the Chinese?

2. And besides, I strongly disagree with the fact that communist China is in a way, threatening Taiwanese people not to act a certain way(opting for independence) on the grounds of national unity. The fact is that China and Taiwan parted their ways ever since 1949, they were never united together ever since. Now they're treating Taiwan as part of their territory and is subject to the jurisdiction of Communist Chinese laws - to me this is simply absurd.

Ever since the 1970's, Communist China stripped Taiwan's priviledge as a nation and it's international recognition slowly. First they forced Taiwan out of the United Nations (Reason being that the Communist China is the "real" Chinese government), then they're saying that there is only one China, and it is the Communist "Red" China (which it clearly isn't). AND THE FUNNY THING IS THAT EVERYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD AGREED WITH THEM.


Yes. To be fair, the nationalist government in Taiwan until then claimed sovereignty over China at a time when they lost control of the mainland for over two decades and had no prospects of getting it back. Until the 70s Taiwan held China's seat in the UN including the security council even though it had absolutely no credibility in claiming to represent China. Of course international opinion is important. There is a charming residue of anti-communist sentiment in American idealism which favours Taiwan. However this is only by virtue of it occuring in China. One can only remember what the Americans did the last time their own states tried to seceed from their union.
LeJester
Profile Joined July 2003
United States211 Posts
March 13 2005 10:48 GMT
#18
On March 13 2005 19:32 cAtAcLySmIc wrote:
China can't afford to go to war against Taiwan, that would involve fighting against the US which they cannot beat and they would lose the US for trade and since the US is a major importer of their products, the Chinese economy would plunge.


Its a 2 way street. All those negatives apply to us also.
No seriously, Im not kidding.
MoltkeWarding
Profile Joined November 2003
5195 Posts
March 13 2005 10:54 GMT
#19
On March 13 2005 19:48 LeJester wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 13 2005 19:32 cAtAcLySmIc wrote:
China can't afford to go to war against Taiwan, that would involve fighting against the US which they cannot beat and they would lose the US for trade and since the US is a major importer of their products, the Chinese economy would plunge.


Its a 2 way street. All those negatives apply to us also.


Not to mention the strategic importance of international economy in war time is highly overrated.
ieatkids5
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
United States4628 Posts
March 13 2005 11:08 GMT
#20
:O
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