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On March 14 2005 09:53 m3th wrote:
My 2 Cents:
Taiwan should just keep things the way they are for now because the US is having enough trouble with its war in Iraq and generally trying to police the world... People may say that China cannot beat the US, but it's simply not true. Granted, China will never be able to invade US soil (unless something drastic happens in terms of the balance of world power...), but I doubt the US will be able to do much to stop any full scale Chinese assault on Taiwan.
As for predictions that China will become a vast superpower in the 21st Century. I highly doubt it... Yes, China has a huge population and economic potential, but potential is pretty much where it's been remaining thusfar. The Chinese have yet to prove any ability to realize their full potential. If anything I believe they'll be able to become a great economic power, but I highly doubt that will translate over to military might, which is something I believe a true "superpower" must have. China's military is simply outdated and with the way money has been allocated up until this point, I doubt China will be anything more than 4 steps behind the US in terms of applicable military technology. Of course, one can always argue brute force since I'm more than sure China has enough ICBM's to overwhelm any sort of defense the US has, but that works both ways. There won't be any major power struggles of that sort in the 21st century because it would lead to the destruction of the human race... I think the EU will eventually rise up to be a superpower greater than China will ever be...
I think the balance of power is pretty nice at the moment. Granted, the US attempts to police the world, but it's not as if no other country can check the US's actions. China is certainly one nation that can do so economically and militarily (espeically with the US's thinned military). Though I hate to admit it since I live in the country, I think the US has certainly passed its prime as a world power. It seems that we're going the way of the ancient Roman Empire.
I love the Roman analogy, even though people sometimes have a tendency to take it too far. It seems what Gibbon wrote 300 years ago about the invincibility of modern civilization is going out the window. The United States is only bringing about the nemesis to her own hubris. Still, let us not forget that Rome was succeeded by barbarism and the dark ages. What would people in our time prefer?
As much as America is at fault for her arrogance, I think it would be disastrous if a country like China were to usurp her dominance. Happily there is no prospect of that for as far as we can see.
Gotta love people pointing out that there never was a "real" communist government and acting like they hold the intellectual high-ground because they've come to realize that.
As if calling us youngsters at the beginning of the post didn't make his motives clear. I wonder how old he is -_-
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On March 14 2005 09:52 Dl33ter wrote:
If and when China becomes the dominant global superpower, all those pseudo-intellectuals who bitch and moan about the current US monopoly will know what oppression really means.
I know I don't wanna live in a world dominated by a superpower without any Western background.
Do I sense an elitist?
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On March 13 2005 23:21 Hydrolisko wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2005 23:18 tiffany wrote:On March 13 2005 23:10 Hydrolisko wrote:
jesus please.. china is too nice.. they shoulda attacked taiwan a long time ago.. now please do what you gotta do and get this issue over with. Whats USA gonna do? goto war with China over Taiwan? give me a break. stop talking out of your ass huh? can u give me a more intelligent response than that so I can at least reply to what you have to say?... >.<
china's too nice? why does that deserve an intelligent response?
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Well... if you think about it. What happened when the South declared independence/sovereignty from the US? Instant attack. Now, I'm not saying the South was right... but right and wrong is all relative to the audience.
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On March 14 2005 08:59 Cambium wrote:
Keep in mind, almost half of the population of Taiwan discourages the separation.
actually, it's almost half of the population of Taiwan discourages the separation, IF China decides to solve this thru military actions.
very high majority of the population of Taiwan would rather see a peaceful separation, but most of them also recognize that is an unlikely ideal.
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i think they did it for the politicians. What kind of president would declare independence while risking a war? it's political sucide. Also keep in mind the recent changes in stratgetic plans from the Japan and US regarding far - east regions. Both of which had changes that now includes Taiwan as an area of concern and hints possibilities of interference, they had to do sumthing effective to counter this or the seperation movement could get new hopes.
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Holy christ Too long didn't read
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On March 14 2005 18:21 MolteWardingwrote:
French fashions, architecture, language, philosophy, literature, forms of coversation and modes of thought became imitated from Russia to America (as late as the early 20th century there was a class of people on the eastern seaboard who adhered to these tastes). As I see it, no one here attempts to imitate Chinese modes of thought. No one travels to Beijing to listen to Chinese opera, talk with the Chinese Voltaire or taste Chinese high society.
Are you so sure about that? instead of down talk China when ever you can why don't you school yourself on Confucius, eastern Architecture. You do know that Chinese culture influenced just about all the Asian countries right? Sun Zi's art of war is used by present day stratgetists? Chinese proverbs and way of thinking might seem useless to you but they are quite meaningful for maybe quarter of the global population. Even today, Japanese language uses Chinese characters. There are in fact great deal of western and asian people travelling to china to appreciate its presitige and culture, just because you don't find them interesting does not mean others won't. I'm sorry, obviously you don't have a clue what prestige really means.
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On March 14 2005 18:21 LetMeBeWithYou wrote:
Holy christ Too long didn't read
Seriously man why do you waste your time to tell us that?
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MURICA15980 Posts
On March 14 2005 18:12 0_0 wrote:
Well... if you think about it. What happened when the South declared independence/sovereignty from the US? Instant attack. Now, I'm not saying the South was right... but right and wrong is all relative to the audience.
But to every single black man out there, it was wrong... although emancipation wasn't declared until after the war started. But still :O
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On March 14 2005 18:30 haduken wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2005 18:21 MolteWardingwrote:
French fashions, architecture, language, philosophy, literature, forms of coversation and modes of thought became imitated from Russia to America (as late as the early 20th century there was a class of people on the eastern seaboard who adhered to these tastes). As I see it, no one here attempts to imitate Chinese modes of thought. No one travels to Beijing to listen to Chinese opera, talk with the Chinese Voltaire or taste Chinese high society. Are you so sure about that? instead of down talk China when ever you can why don't you school yourself on Confucius, eastern Architecture. You do know that Chinese culture influenced just about all the Asian countries right? Sun Zi's art of war is used by present day stratgetists? Chinese proverbs and way of thinking might seem useless to you but they are quite meaningful for maybe quarter of the global population. Even today, Japanese language uses Chinese characters. There are in fact great deal of western and asian people travelling to china to appreciate its presitige and culture, just because you don't find them interesting does not mean others won't. I'm sorry, obviously you don't have a clue what prestige really means.
It's kind of pathetic the kind of defensive nationalism people can start establishing, even among a people who have no real sense of their own history. Name me a single present day strategist who relies on Sun Tsu for their military thinking. Most Chinese proverbs i've heard here in Canada are made up. America today uses Roman characters, big deal. Because China was in certain ways technologically ahead of Europe thousands of years ago has absolutely no relevance today. China has no cultural prestige and besides the obvious attraction of exoticism, not a single form of its art, music, architecture (with the exception of the subliminal romantics) have found currency internationally nor does its language possess equal international status compared to English, French, German, Spanish or even Russian. Culture tourism is a sad business, and the entire multicultural mentality often distorts people from the products of their own history to one which they neither understand nor could appreciate.
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On March 14 2005 18:12 0_0 wrote:
Well... if you think about it. What happened when the South declared independence/sovereignty from the US? Instant attack. Now, I'm not saying the South was right... but right and wrong is all relative to the audience.
Oh, and the point was this:
The United States of America was a federation of states based on its very name. The issue of secession was a legal quagmire because there was been no provision for it in the constitution. Did the South have a right to seceed from the Union? In questions such as these force of arms prevail what legal disputes cannot solve. Lincoln said it himself: if he could save the Union by freeing the slaves, he would do it, and he would let the south keep their slaves if that would save the union. The problem was neither legal nor even moral, it concerned the will of states vs the will of the union in claims of sovereignty.
Why is it that China, an ancient Kingdom with a far more extensive sense of her territorial integrity than the United States in 1861 have less of a right to Taiwan than Washington had to the Southern states?
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Because China was in certain ways technologically ahead of Europe thousands of years ago has absolutely no relevance today.
I think it was a couple hundred. But I agree that it has little relevance today. Kinda like the First Nations owning all of US and Canada a couple hundred years ago.
BTW: are you for Quebec seperating from Canada? Or only seperating from Canada if they Choice too? And if Quebec seperates can parts of Quebec seperate back into Canada?
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I dont know why you would want to hold onto Quebec...isn't it full of French Canadians?
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On March 14 2005 21:26 Sharkey wrote:
Because China was in certain ways technologically ahead of Europe thousands of years ago has absolutely no relevance today.
I think it was a couple hundred. But I agree that it has little relevance today. Kinda like the First Nations owning all of US and Canada a couple hundred years ago.
BTW: are you for Quebec seperating from Canada? Or only seperating from Canada if they Choice too? And if Quebec seperates can parts of Quebec seperate back into Canada?
We can probably trace the period of Europe gaining a hegemony over Asia in the period of 1500-1800, the industrial revolution put Europe ahead of Asia certainly. What annoys me is when Chinese people (and since I am an immigrant of that country I have heard it enough times to nauseate me) claim their cultural superiority on the basis on the first to invent gun powder or printing, while baffling North Americans who don't know any better with all kinds of evidences of oriental superiority, whereas conveniently using multiculturalism and political correctness to distort reality. It has always seemed to me (at least among Chinese people here) to be a defensive kind of nationalism where the purpose is rather trying to avert impressions of inferiority both to Westerners and to themselves rather than trying to establish their superiority over other races.
Interestingly, I am all for the cultural autonomy of Quebec, but were Quebec 100% French, their referendums would have passed a long time ago. I don't like to see the breakup of stable and healthy political units, Canada included. I don't see why Quebec cannot exist in the same political unit as Canada, even if they are culturally or lingustically unique. I like the ability to drive up to Quebec without a passport (200 KM northeast of me) and experience what is probably the most European part of North America.
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On March 14 2005 21:32 LeJester wrote:
I dont know why you would want to hold onto Quebec...isn't it full of French Canadians?
Yes, and I would not want it otherwise.
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i remembered read something like this:
real world simulation result:
"if China attacks Japan now, Japan's military will last for months; if China attacks Taiwan, Taiwan at most two weeks."
sad isn't it? but if China overpowered Taiwan, i'm 100% sure you'll see guerilla fighers here and there just like US facing in Iraq now.
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On March 14 2005 21:44 HiFi wrote:
i remembered read something like this:
real world simulation result:
"if China attacks Japan now, Japan's military will last for months; if China attacks Taiwan, Taiwan at most two weeks."
sad isn't it? but if China overpowered Taiwan, i'm 100% sure you'll see guerilla fighers here and there just like US facing in Iraq now.
I doubt it. At least not on the level of Iraq. For one thing China has an internationally recognized claim to be one state with Taiwan. For another thing the view most Iraqis have of Americans as foreign conquerers who are an insult to their national pride, culture and even religion does not exist with China and Taiwan. I also simply cannot see Taiwanese going into suicide bombings, rogue beheadings or terrorism. Too much a strech. Every country is different.
I also don't see any way China could feasibly attack Japan except from air/missile strikes. China doesn't have a blue water navy sufficient to master the sea of Japan and launch an invasion army.
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EPT
