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LeJester
United States211 Posts
On March 14 2005 21:41 MoltkeWarding wrote: Yes, and I would not want it otherwise. Well not that I would know, but I've always assumed that French Canadians are smelly and arrogant and snobbish. Also they probably wear funny hats. | ||
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tiffany
3664 Posts
On March 14 2005 21:08 MoltkeWarding wrote: Oh, and the point was this: The United States of America was a federation of states based on its very name. The issue of secession was a legal quagmire because there was been no provision for it in the constitution. Did the South have a right to seceed from the Union? In questions such as these force of arms prevail what legal disputes cannot solve. Lincoln said it himself: if he could save the Union by freeing the slaves, he would do it, and he would let the south keep their slaves if that would save the union. The problem was neither legal nor even moral, it concerned the will of states vs the will of the union in claims of sovereignty. Why is it that China, an ancient Kingdom with a far more extensive sense of her territorial integrity than the United States in 1861 have less of a right to Taiwan than Washington had to the Southern states? wouldn't you say that the nationalists that were forced to emigrate to taiwan in the first place have the same claim to that ancient kingdom of dynasties, idioms, and culture? also you have to consider the native taiwanese people that feel no need to be a part of a nation they were never originally separated from in the first place. | ||
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
On March 14 2005 18:21 MolteWardingwrote: It's kind of pathetic the kind of defensive nationalism people can start establishing, even among a people who have no real sense of their own history. Name me a single present day strategist who relies on Sun Tsu for their military thinking. Most Chinese proverbs i've heard here in Canada are made up. America today uses Roman characters, big deal. Because China was in certain ways technologically ahead of Europe thousands of years ago has absolutely no relevance today. China has no cultural prestige and besides the obvious attraction of exoticism, not a single form of its art, music, architecture (with the exception of the subliminal romantics) have found currency internationally nor does its language possess equal international status compared to English, French, German, Spanish or even Russian. Culture tourism is a sad business, and the entire multicultural mentality often distorts people from the products of their own history to one which they neither understand nor could appreciate. MolteWardingwrote, I read everything you said, and I think they are the most intelligent responses in this thread, and it's perfectly natural for different opinions to exist in an arguement (or else there wouldn't be one). BUT, don't downtalk the Chinese philosophy and language. Of course some of the proverbs are made up, they don't all have to express truth, they can also exist to express practical precept. The fact that no modern strategists use the thirty-six strategies from Sun-Tzu's Art of War is because they have become common sense by this time period not because they are ineffective. I'll give you a good example, US "stops" terrorism by capturing/"killing" Bin Ladin, and that is one of the strategies mentioned in the book (To defeat bad guys, kill their leader first) 27计策名称： 擒贼擒王 古人云： 挽弓当挽强,用箭当用长。射人先射马,擒贼先擒王。杀人亦有限,列国自有疆。苟能制侵陵,岂在多杀伤? China probably has the most cultural prestige in the world because of its long historical background. Just because you are not familiar with history Chinese music and arts background doesn't mean they don't exist. The charcoal writing and waterpaint painting are still practised today all over the world. Poems from the Tang and Song period are read and memorized by millions of Chinese people and some are even translated into English and other languages. As a language, Chinese may only be inferior to English, but not to French, German, Spanish or even Russian like you claimed. The fact that 1.5 billion people speak Chinese makes it a "strong" language. | ||
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
If China attacks, China will be victorious. | ||
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haduken
Australia8267 Posts
On March 14 2005 21:02 MoltkeWarding wrote: It's kind of pathetic the kind of defensive nationalism people can start establishing, even among a people who have no real sense of their own history. Name me a single present day strategist who relies on Sun Tsu for their military thinking. Most Chinese proverbs i've heard here in Canada are made up. America today uses Roman characters, big deal. Because China was in certain ways technologically ahead of Europe thousands of years ago has absolutely no relevance today. China has no cultural prestige and besides the obvious attraction of exoticism, not a single form of its art, music, architecture (with the exception of the subliminal romantics) have found currency internationally nor does its language possess equal international status compared to English, French, German, Spanish or even Russian. Culture tourism is a sad business, and the entire multicultural mentality often distorts people from the products of their own history to one which they neither understand nor could appreciate. Ok bananaman, i'm done arguing with you, obviously the only 'prestige' your eyes can see are that of the western, just some questions, how much time did you actually lived at China or and how much Canadian education did you recieve to make you think you can pass a judgement that China is in fact intellectually void? | ||
Manifesto7
Osaka27155 Posts
On March 14 2005 21:02 MoltkeWarding wrote: It's kind of pathetic the kind of defensive nationalism people can start establishing, even among a people who have no real sense of their own history. Name me a single present day strategist who relies on Sun Tsu for their military thinking. Most Chinese proverbs i've heard here in Canada are made up. America today uses Roman characters, big deal. Because China was in certain ways technologically ahead of Europe thousands of years ago has absolutely no relevance today. China has no cultural prestige and besides the obvious attraction of exoticism, not a single form of its art, music, architecture (with the exception of the subliminal romantics) have found currency internationally nor does its language possess equal international status compared to English, French, German, Spanish or even Russian. Culture tourism is a sad business, and the entire multicultural mentality often distorts people from the products of their own history to one which they neither understand nor could appreciate. Time to open a newspaper buddy, and get your head out of the sand. China is a nuclear power. China has a permanent seat at he UN. China has the largest army. China has put a man in space. Type this into google: "most spoken language" and you will see that the number of people speaking Chinese is almost 2x those speaking english. China has the fastest growing economy on the globe, and gaining official recognition from the government as a tourism spot is something every country craves (including Canada who recently got it). Learning Chinese is one of the highest priorities for those business right now, as that is where the market is. Multi-cultural identity? You speak as if it is a disease, when it is an issue in most countries, including ours. Simply said, just because the only Chinese guy you see is working the counter at your corner store does not remove the relevance of their position as the largest entity on earth. | ||
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longer_23
China299 Posts
On March 14 2005 21:02 MoltkeWarding wrote: It's kind of pathetic the kind of defensive nationalism people can start establishing, even among a people who have no real sense of their own history. Name me a single present day strategist who relies on Sun Tsu for their military thinking. Most Chinese proverbs i've heard here in Canada are made up. America today uses Roman characters, big deal. Because China was in certain ways technologically ahead of Europe thousands of years ago has absolutely no relevance today. China has no cultural prestige and besides the obvious attraction of exoticism, not a single form of its art, music, architecture (with the exception of the subliminal romantics) have found currency internationally nor does its language possess equal international status compared to English, French, German, Spanish or even Russian. Culture tourism is a sad business, and the entire multicultural mentality often distorts people from the products of their own history to one which they neither understand nor could appreciate. The Chinese people is not a homogeneous race as a people in one of the european countries. From Manchuia to Yellow River to Long River to the south, there's a wide spectrum of sub-ethnicities that're different from each other in food, customs, mentalities and even physical appearances. The cultural diversity of China is comparable to Europe as a whole. Whenever China was not united in history these different local populations fight against each other just like different nationals in Europe. But what matters today is that we're again united, tuned to a same tone and as a result we uphold a same cultural identity. That's the real significance of the Chinese language. Besides English and Spanish I dont see another european language has achieved this massive binding power. The loss of cultural prestige is the sad memory of the recent centuries, especially the 20th. If a decade's revolution in France could shake the entire european cultural structure then you can imagine : take that destruction mulply it by 10 and apply it to a China that had already been torched by a century of incessant warfares. Of course there's not much left. But still, men can always build up new civilizations from the ashes of the old ones. In history the Chinese civilization was brought to the ground quite a few times by nomads or domestic revolutions. it has survived. Even if all the new elitist elements were wiped out (they will grow back, but not before the majority of people regain a decent living standard) and all the ancient wisdoms are becoming cliche, i can still find a hell lot of pride at least in the endurance of any average chinese and the culture as a whole. | ||
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longer_23
China299 Posts
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longer_23
China299 Posts
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DV8
United States1623 Posts
On March 14 2005 21:02 MoltkeWarding wrote: It's kind of pathetic the kind of defensive nationalism people can start establishing, even among a people who have no real sense of their own history. Name me a single present day strategist who relies on Sun Tsu for their military thinking. Most Chinese proverbs i've heard here in Canada are made up. America today uses Roman characters, big deal. Because China was in certain ways technologically ahead of Europe thousands of years ago has absolutely no relevance today. China has no cultural prestige and besides the obvious attraction of exoticism, not a single form of its art, music, architecture (with the exception of the subliminal romantics) have found currency internationally nor does its language possess equal international status compared to English, French, German, Spanish or even Russian. Culture tourism is a sad business, and the entire multicultural mentality often distorts people from the products of their own history to one which they neither understand nor could appreciate. Just out of curiosity, but what would classify someone as having a multicultural mentality? | ||
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Servolisk
United States5241 Posts
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DV8
United States1623 Posts
On March 14 2005 18:32 haduken wrote: Seriously man why do you waste your time to tell us that? There is a wide belief amongst male teens who scour any and all forums that postcount is proportionate to their e-penis. | ||
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secrtagent
United States119 Posts
On March 15 2005 00:36 longer_23 wrote: Now most of the discussions here in this thread are beside the point. China's only trying to retain a piece of land that's close to its economic arteries, I dont see how that translates into an evil ambition to take over the world. I am a secret agent from China. China is, in fact, planning in secret to take over the world. Prepare for the Asian Domination. I have already said too much.... | ||
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insaneknights
482 Posts
On March 15 2005 01:15 Servolisk wrote: Atleast they don't have "pretty darn good intelligence" claiming taiwain has wmds :o Ahah this made me laugh. | ||
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shizuru
Japan570 Posts
On March 15 2005 01:27 DV8 wrote: There is a wide belief amongst male teens who scour any and all forums that postcount is proportionate to their e-penis. lol my e-penis is only about 300 posts long. I think i might have come down with severe post envy =/ | ||
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yeehaw
San Marino888 Posts
On March 14 2005 06:41 MoltkeWarding wrote: ...and when did I claim they were? Really, if you can't understand something it's better not to reply. and irrevevelant example hello? Really, f you cant get your facts right it's better not to reply. | ||
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yeehaw
San Marino888 Posts
On March 14 2005 06:41 MoltkeWarding wrote: ...and when did I claim they were? Really, if you can't understand something it's better not to reply. Besides, his reply was in response to China's current actions. Was he justified in saying so? Yes. Dont jump to conclusions. | ||
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yeehaw
San Marino888 Posts
On March 14 2005 06:51 MoltkeWarding wrote: And again, the illiteracy you demonstrate is appalling. I have never been arguing that Russia, retrospectively was in a dominant position 100 years ago. Unfortunately you are talking about the consequences to events which have not yet occurred in 1905. I am talking about peoples' inabilities to see the future based on present trends, the cultivation of which often conjurs collective illusions about a certain country. Did any foreign observer in 1900 believe that the Russian empire was going to collapse in 20 years? Please do not try to bash what is only one side of a bigger argument, when you just help in proving my point. You said Russia looked more imposing. And I argued it to be false. Russia back then has already lost most of its prestige. Nobody predicted that the Russian empire was going to collapse in 20 yrs, but they could see that Russia was on a decline. Please do not put mouths in my mouth, it only helps to prove my point. Constrast to China, who is on the ascendancy. China's economy is growing, international recognition is more forthcoming, etc etc Thanks for sidestepping my point and wailing about how I was arguing that Russia was in a dominant position 100 years ago. Please dont take a select portion of my words out of context. It makes for bad arguments. | ||
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ZorAptoR
Switzerland926 Posts
On March 14 2005 22:59 Manifesto7 wrote: Time to open a newspaper buddy, and get your head out of the sand. China is a nuclear power. China has a permanent seat at he UN. China has the largest army. China has put a man in space. Type this into google: "most spoken language" and you will see that the number of people speaking Chinese is almost 2x those speaking english. China has the fastest growing economy on the globe, and gaining official recognition from the government as a tourism spot is something every country craves (including Canada who recently got it). Learning Chinese is one of the highest priorities for those business right now, as that is where the market is. Multi-cultural identity? You speak as if it is a disease, when it is an issue in most countries, including ours. Simply said, just because the only Chinese guy you see is working the counter at your corner store does not remove the relevance of their position as the largest entity on earth. couldn't have said it better Mani  EDIT: Only thing you forgot: China in the meantime has also most of the high-end weapons, whereas America still uses technics which wouldn't have been capable to compete with Europeans' and Russia's in all the years (they just have/had more Nukes and more of the rest...). | ||
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MoltkeWarding
5195 Posts
On March 14 2005 22:28 tiffany wrote: wouldn't you say that the nationalists that were forced to emigrate to taiwan in the first place have the same claim to that ancient kingdom of dynasties, idioms, and culture? also you have to consider the native taiwanese people that feel no need to be a part of a nation they were never originally separated from in the first place. Lots of responses. I'll try to wrap this up one at a time. I didn't say whether taiwan should or should not be independent. I am simply pointing out the hypocrisy of certain American nationalist think tanks who need an ideological motive for defending Taiwan. But I do think that Taiwan and China should be one state, even as China and HK are and I don't think the USA has anything to do with the business. | ||
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