EPTFlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle
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jinjin5000
United States1468 Posts
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Kraekkling
582 Posts
well, this might be Flash's opinion, but wayyy more people on tl agreed that Snow lost because zvp is inherently unfair. the best way forward would be to collect a lot of money so we can send a donation to Flash while he is streaming to explain to him that he is wrong | ||
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oxKnu
1240 Posts
On November 10 2025 00:47 Kraekkling wrote: thanks for this jinjin! well, this might be Flash's opinion, but wayyy more people on tl agreed that Snow lost because zvp is inherently unfair. the best way forward would be to collect a lot of money so we can send a donation to Flash while he is streaming to explain to him that he is wrong That's a very simplistic way to summarize what people were saying. There were others, like me, who identified that Soma is a terrible match-up for Snow because he is exploiting him to the absolute fullest with his inherent playstyle. Flash's basic argument stems from that. This is pretty obvious, it's something that has to do with Snow but there are also historical reasons to talk about PvZ matchup as imbalanced, what better occasion to do that than the ASL finals? Snow didn't play well in the finals and he is also showcasing that he is not willing to change his mindset re: the matchup. Best for example, although his overall performance might've looked much inferior to Snow's understood two rounds ago that Soma's playstyle is a perfect to antidote to his regular play. Sure, failed to execute on a viable alternative but at least there was real recognition there. | ||
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Soft_General_5023
110 Posts
just some protoss whiners say on this forum it's general pvz imbalance | ||
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sas.Sziky
Hungary332 Posts
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Kraekkling
582 Posts
On November 10 2025 01:10 oxKnu wrote: That's a very simplistic way to summarize what people were saying. nah man I'm not trying to summarize anything, I just poke a bit of fun at people who wrote essays on how the loss was due to the nature of the matchup or people making balance change suggestions lol | ||
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CHEONSOYUN
562 Posts
protoss players mad because soma made snow look stupid | ||
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ahwala
Germany402 Posts
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Rainalcar
Croatia422 Posts
Individual leagues OSL MSL ASL... 11:2 KCM 9:0 What else needs to be said? Flash is free to switch to P and enlighten us all how to dominate PvZ. | ||
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Smorrie
Netherlands2925 Posts
On November 10 2025 05:32 Rainalcar wrote: ZvP finals Individual leagues OSL MSL ASL... 11:2 KCM 9:0 What else needs to be said? Flash is free to switch to P and enlighten us all how to dominate PvZ. HT's can decimate a Zerg army in seconds with a few well placed storms. | ||
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sc2turtlepants
46 Posts
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iFU.pauline
France1660 Posts
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XenOsky
Chile2298 Posts
On November 10 2025 05:42 Smorrie wrote: HT's can decimate a Zerg army in seconds with a few well placed storms. if you're playing vs potato... i've played vs soma a few times, good luck killing shit with storms vs that level of player.. btw flash is actually talking about stoping the hydra push, that is the optimization he is talking about (instead of squeezing extra probe, he squeezes extra probe control to annoy zerg kind of stuff), he never addresses the problem that SnOw is probably going to have in a few minutes playing a 50-50 game from the midgame to the late game. Snow has optimization issues : YES Zerg is favorite vs Protoss : YES Can snow play better?: YES Can protoss beat zerg in a consistent fashion?: NO is there an historical unbalance of the match up?: YES can snow win vs #1 z just optimizing better?: I DOUBT IT | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6794 Posts
PD: him losing on Blitz Y vs Soulkey a map with 33% win rate for zerg doesnt prove nothing. Snow played fair and square and decided to no use his third gaz the whole game to make a fair game vs Soulkey. Protoss are just like that. Pure souls. Signed: TMNT | ||
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Bonyth
Poland593 Posts
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Smorrie
Netherlands2925 Posts
On November 10 2025 07:36 XenOsky wrote: if you're playing vs potato... i've played vs soma a few times, good luck killing shit with storms vs that level of player.. btw flash is actually talking about stoping the hydra push, that is the optimization he is talking about (instead of squeezing extra probe, he squeezes extra probe control to annoy zerg kind of stuff), he never addresses the problem that SnOw is probably going to have in a few minutes playing a 50-50 game from the midgame to the late game. Snow has optimization issues : YES Zerg is favorite vs Protoss : YES Can snow play better?: YES Can protoss beat zerg in a consistent fashion?: NO is there an historical unbalance of the match up?: YES can snow win vs #1 z just optimizing better?: I DOUBT IT ya'll gotta chill - i put down a random comment to add to the strawmanning. it seems most of you are misrepresenting the point flash is trying to make in this clip, wanting to push a PvZ imba agenda. The point he's making is about Snow, not PvZ balance. Sure, it's related, so is a HT or a lurker. zzz | ||
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Brett
Australia3822 Posts
On November 10 2025 05:32 Rainalcar wrote: ZvP finals Individual leagues OSL MSL ASL... 11:2 KCM 9:0 What else needs to be said? Flash is free to switch to P and enlighten us all how to dominate PvZ. Nothing. Flash wont do it, and couldn't anyway. | ||
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goody153
44236 Posts
I do believe Flash is somewhat right that Snow has some macro issues which was pointed out by many pro players before but frankly speaking other protosses dont so unless the overwhelming zerg victory vs protoss in almost every finals in a long period of time cant be discounted tbqh ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- seriously just make maps that makes hydra busts hard (although some of those maps make lurker contain good as well but that's a tradeoff than hydra bust every game) On November 10 2025 01:22 Soft_General_5023 wrote: snow's playstyle sucks agains soma's just some protoss whiners say on this forum it's general pvz imbalance It's always just "whiners" but nobody could really prove how zerg has been winning all the finals vs protoss all the time. It's one thing for like players who make it multiple times but another when every finals is just a zerg win vs protoss with different people involved and nobody can still win It's not the players anymore On November 10 2025 09:33 Brett wrote: Nothing. Flash wont do it, and couldn't anyway. I heard Flash has good protoss but I doubt he could even if he would show how to beat zerg's best all the time | ||
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Kraekkling
582 Posts
when Snow's first corsair is out on the map, he scouts Soma's third and sees the hydra den go down at 6:37 hydra den build time is 25sec, both hydra upgrades are 63sec each. that's two and a half minutes after the den is started, before Zerg can attack thus in this case, any hydra aggression should come after ~9 minutes at earliest (6:37 + 25 + 63 + 63) however, Snow has 4 (!) cannons finish before 8:30 at his natural so Snow ended up preparing at least 30 seconds early for hydras (which never came in the end) + Show Spoiler + I think there was somewhat of a mind game happening - Soma saw the scouting path of the Corsair and knew that it was going for his third. He already had a drone in place to place the fifth hatch, but instead went hydra den before fifth hatch, like he did in several of the previous games, which implies hydra bust. On the other hand though, whenever Soma really went for hydra busts, in each of the previous games he was extra sneaky with his hydra den placement and hid it every time. VOD:+ Show Spoiler + | ||
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jinjin5000
United States1468 Posts
On November 10 2025 07:36 XenOsky wrote: if you're playing vs potato... i've played vs soma a few times, good luck killing shit with storms vs that level of player.. btw flash is actually talking about stoping the hydra push, that is the optimization he is talking about (instead of squeezing extra probe, he squeezes extra probe control to annoy zerg kind of stuff), he never addresses the problem that SnOw is probably going to have in a few minutes playing a 50-50 game from the midgame to the late game. Snow has optimization issues : YES Zerg is favorite vs Protoss : YES Can snow play better?: YES Can protoss beat zerg in a consistent fashion?: NO is there an historical unbalance of the match up?: YES can snow win vs #1 z just optimizing better?: I DOUBT IT SnOw had much closer game in chinese spon series recently than the finals | ||
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