I believe there already is a very long thread on a topic almost identical to this, about Gay Starcraft players. However, if Chill thinks this warrants another thread, then so be it...
My argument is that one should be pragmatic and honest with themselves, and realize that times have seriously, seriously changed. It is now almost 2012, and the world is filled with many sexual orientations, many cultures, and many ethnicities. Many of these are new, and many of them are stemming from hundreds of years of religious and/or ethnic practices. As with such, there is historical prejudice towards many groups of people - in fact, one would argue that there is not one class of people who have been 100% exempt from racism / sexism / discrimination.
Now, with that in mind, I would like to strongly encourage the OP, and all whom follow his logic, to take what he says with a grain of salt. Yes, it does clearly offend and depress a person when they are called terrible names. Yes, it shouldn't be used to demean the person. Yes, it is probably best to be open with your choices in life to act and/or be a certain way (even if you are born a certain way, i.e, skin color).
However, do realize that any name calling holds its weight by the response of the community (the world). My theory in life is very simple, and might seem a bit extreme to those who do not follow my logical viewpoint: the utilization of any term, regardless of how offensive it is, carries a certain variable of weight, which tips the scale of society into backlash. The over-usage of certain terms causes the marginal rate of sensitivity (think economics, in the terms of how sensitive something is to delta) to decrease, or in layman's terms, the more you use something, the less sensitive you become to it.
Therefore, my argument would be that one should be vocal and proud of who they are, but they should not be sad or offended by name-calling. You showing fear, depression, anger, or backlash towards name-calling only gives those names bigger weight and meaning. It's almost the same as bullies in school. You can either call the principal to get him in trouble, and have him say "I am sorry" in front of you, which you blatantly know is a lie, because he would get suspended if he didn't apologize, OR, you can stand up to the bully, by simply laughing at his actions, or showing no sign of backlash. It is almost always the case that the latter of the two will yield the best results, as that will diminish the bullies leveraged attacks against you.
I really hope this helps, and can shape the way that the community views BM and/or name-calling. It should not be "banned", because that doesn't take away it's meaning, that just hides the meaning behind falsified red tape and bureaucracy. It should be openly embraced, and used as modern language -- which is the only way to truly make society not sensitive to it's harshness.
Edit: This is NSFW. This is also an example for reference -- please watch this if you have the stomach and/or intelligence to understand that this is not meant to be offensive, but rather to explain my point of view.
I think where people go wrong on this "debate" is they try to argue the logical/rational aspect, when the issue at hand is not about that. The pain of being called a "fag" is emotional, and it is not something you can rationalize away that easily, or at all depending on the person.
in my honest opinion, its only a view of anti-homophobia that is keeping these terms homophobic, if it weren't for people constantly complaining about the use of "gay" or "fag" they would just slip into the list of words that are general insults and lose all real meaning.
if i call someone a dick, i don't actually think they're a dick, that would be dumb, i just want to insult a guy
in the same way when a person calls someone a fag, in most cases they're not thinking about what they're actually saying, they just want to insult a person.
i have quite long hair, hence in the chav ridden town i live in i get a lot of "get a haircut", it's used as an insult, but when is "get a haircut" ever really an insult?
and if you take "nigger" people have use this as a racial slur for centuries, i will probably be frowned upon for saying it in this post, but all i'm saying is "black" in latin,
my point being the word that is used, and the context it is used in are totally unrelated, and people have to understand that the meaning of the term almost NEVER matters and will eventually fade away over time, it is the context it is used in that matters.
hell i can even reference southpark to show what i mean; season 13 episode 12 "the F word"
Meh. It can go either way, honestly. But this much is true: on the internet, EVERYONE is a target. It's not fair and it's not right, but it's the internet - what can anyone really DO about it? Meh...I don't really know.
you are conflating multiple meanings of one word to make every usage homophobic, chill out everyone is just here to have a gay ol' time - have fun.
you know words only offend when you take offence from them. I've been calling people gay since before i knew what gay was - ie my usage of it is certainly not what you mean by it - which depends on context.
I say gay all the time. I admit im trying to cut it out now, but im no way homophobic - the only reason why i am trying to stop saying it is because some of my friends dont like it. But they don't think im homophobic they just think im a bit of an ass.
As for your statistics, most of that isnt caused by words like gay - its caused by dicks (omg im insulting all men!) who think picking on the different kid is in some way cool. the word they use is irrelevant and if you have got into the spot where you think the word is important I really think your missing the big picture.
Or are you trying to argue if they called him something else it would make it all better?
Besides, learn to deal with it. Being an ass doesnt get you far in life - sadly school is like a prison so you dont have many moves to deal with it and that imo is the real problem. You don't get that kind of abuse in the real world - well you do but its called a crime then but for some reason schools don't work like that. Can't say i'd like to be in school and gay - pro tip, don't be the weakest. That, i suspect, is the real problem.
the reasons why people dont like gays are cultural. I read a statistic that says far more men are staying home to look after kids while wives work. Things take time.
People have be using "offensive" words to insult each other forever. Almost everyone is guilty of it. Funny enough, I have a gay friend who I was talking to about this last week. It made him uncomfortable to hear people call each other 'gay' or 'faggot' in school, even though he knew it was not meant as an insult to gay people. Now he doesn't care.
At the same time he calls people and things 'retarded' all the time. So despite his "victimization" he continues to do the same thing to others. I have other gay friends who do similar things all the time, whether it's making a comment about Asian driving or any of the wealth of inappropriate things everyone says.
Your complaint seems to be specifically directed to the StarCraft ladder, so as others have pointed out, I suggest you make use of the bad word filter. Otherwise, if you report someone for saying a "bad word" in a fit of rage on the internet for hate crimes, you're being a faggot.
On October 28 2011 04:18 OmiDeLta wrote: Meh. It can go either way, honestly. But this much is true: on the internet, EVERYONE is a target. It's not fair and it's not right, but it's the internet - what can anyone really DO about it? Meh...I don't really know.
No, not everyone on the Internet is a target. Not white, atheist, heterosexual males. Surprisingly. that's what I and most other people on the Internet are.
I'm all for that you should be able to joke about anything. What matters is who laughs. If you joke about gays and the gays laugh it's OK, if you joke about gays and everybody else laughs it's more questionable (I do this all the time, but it's something I think people should try to minimize).
Regarding the OP using the word gay and faggot is just an ordinary insult. If people would just care enough it would be easy to insult people in other terms. Maybe in 10 years when being gay is more accepted in RL this will disappear.
On October 28 2011 04:19 MrTortoise wrote: you know words only offend when you take offence from them. I've been calling people gay since before i knew what gay was - ie my usage of it is certainly not what you mean by it - which depends on context.
I say gay all the time. I admit im trying to cut it out now, but im no way homophobic - the only reason why i am trying to stop saying it is because some of my friends dont like it. But they don't think im homophobic they just think im a bit of an ass.
In no small way this thread was written for people like you. You use gay as a dergatory term, not out of melaice or homophobia, but out of a cultural trend that you adopted. The people you hurt, you don't know you hurt. But I assure you, you did.
Now I didn't give 'gay' as an example in the OP and the insults I've seen are much more blunt, but even that word, when used in a dergatory fasion, hurts people.
You actually have the easiest and the best way to make this better. Stop. Stop using gay as a term of derision, pick something else.
On October 28 2011 04:04 gulati wrote: I believe there already is a very long thread on a topic almost identical to this, about Gay Starcraft players. However, if Chill thinks this warrants another thread, then so be it...
If you can find it, PM me so I can wash my hands of this thread. I searched and couldn't find it, despite knowing it exists.
You know what Chill, You win. The welcome to this site says this is teamliquids home and we are guests. And I'm cool with that.
If you think this isn't something the teamliquid community needs to address or talk about, close the thread. I won't argue with you anymore, this is your house, your rules. All I know is that in the short time this thread is up I've already got a PM from someone thanking me for raising the issue and trying to make the game a safer place.
Threads like these never seem to get anywhere. I agree with the OP but I know that nobody's minds will be changed by arguments disguised as discussions. What about if people thought twice about using an anti-gay word because the person on the other end might take it too hard? Whether people should or should not have thicker skin doesn't mean that they do or will so we should just all be nice and get along.
On October 28 2011 05:12 IcemanAsi wrote: You know what Chill, You win. The welcome to this site says this is teamliquids home and we are guests. And I'm cool with that.
If you think this isn't something the teamliquid community needs to address or talk about, close the thread. I won't argue with you anymore, this is your house, your rules. All I know is that in the short time this thread is up I've already got a PM from someone thanking me for raising the issue and trying to make the game a safer place.
On October 28 2011 05:12 IcemanAsi wrote: You know what Chill, You win. The welcome to this site says this is teamliquids home and we are guests. And I'm cool with that.
If you think this isn't something the teamliquid community needs to address or talk about, close the thread. I won't argue with you anymore, this is your house, your rules. All I know is that in the short time this thread is up I've already got a PM from someone thanking me for raising the issue and trying to make the game a safer place.
Your call.
You don't need to go be a hero. If it's redundant then it should be closed. No need for a meltdown.
No one cares. This is a computer game, not a social status contest or preschool (OMG HE CALLED ME A BAD NAME T.T). You stay out of my business, I stay out of yours. If you're really so sad about being called names, maybe you just shouldn't be on the internet. The Nazi's can march through Skoki, IL with their hate message but the second someone gets called a fag, the entire world ends. Don't forget that word is bastardized as it is, its actual definition is not even related to the idea you've associated it with. Only the illiterate and uneducated get angry about words like "niggardly" and "fag".
TL;DR: NO ONE CARES ABOUT YOUR SEXUALITY. All these sexuality threads are merely a brag fest, looking for hookups or whine fests.
Women don't get mad about people using the word "bitch". I don't see why you get mad about "gay", words change their meanings all the time, even "gay" wasn't originally related to homosexual people.
On October 28 2011 03:29 EricCartman wrote: Its the internet. There is nothing you can do about it. If you hate it, put up your filters or block someone. While I can see your agony, I think this has a pretty easy solution. If you are gay and are especially offended by homophobic banter, block obscene chats and block communications instead of whining about it.
Once again, its the internet.. anyone and everyone is a prime target. Be smart about it!
This sort of justification really bothers me. If this sort of "this is just how it is" justification was always followed, then there would have been no social change whatsoever in the entire history of the world.
bro.. deal with it. we all are.
Alright now I just think you're trolling.
Aren't the guys you complaining about doing the same thing? Because they know it gets on your nerves? The best way to deal with it is to ignore it.
This isn't Korea where you can call the internet police. It really isn't so simple. Sure, there are cases out there where people are charged for helping with the deaths of certain individuals.
It truly is the nature of the faceless beast. If you don't know them then it really shouldn't matter to you.
EPT
