Hi everyone, this is a second attempt at this thread, the first one was closed by chill and this one is being opened with his approval after we discussed some conditions. As such, I will be bringing cited sources for the statistics and will try to keep a calm tone. Starcraft 2 is a community game, your ladder position means nothing unless there are other people on it and when you play a match there is another gamer there, it's kind of the point. As such, Starcraft will always be as strong or as weak as it's community.
I start every game with the following: "gl hf ♥", why do I do it? Because it reminds me it's just a game, that I'm just here to have fun. For me it's a great way to reduce stress and get into the game in a good mood. Most of the time I get good nature replies, however, I also get a lot of gay bashing responses. For wishing people a good game.
Now, we all know these response, and their likes, and how common they are (especially if you're winning). And I would ask you to consider, starcraft is about playing with other people, it's you and another gamer playing together. Yes, you're playing a competitive game. Yes, you're trying to beat the other guy. But you're both part of the same community, and in the end of the day, your'e playing together.
In the latest researches gay people are apparently about four percent of the population [1] That means that in your division about four people are gay, that from the about 250 players in GSL history, about 10 are gay, and they deserve your respect. They are as much a part of our community as any other gamer and deserve no different treatment then any other player.
So what? you say. It's just harmless name calling. Here's the problem, behind your screen, the network, the server, the network again into some other computer in another nation or maybe just across the street there is another person. A person who you just hurt. Just another hit in a life with more than a few, and he just wanted to play a game online, and have some fun. And then we have this:
36.5 % of GLB youth grades 9-12 have attempted suicide. 20.5% of those attempts resulting in medical care. (Robin, L., Brener, N.D., Donahue, S.F., Hack, T., Hale, K., Goodenow, C. (2002). Associations between health risk behaviors and opposite-, same-, and both-sex sexual partners in representative samples of Vermont and Massachusetts high school students. Archives of Pediatric and Adolescent Medicine, 156(4): pp. 349-55.)
Gay and lesbian youth are 2 to 3 times more likely to attempt suicide than heterosexual young people. (Rotheram–Borus, M., Hunter, J., & Rosario, M. (1994). Suicidal behavior and gay-related stress among gay and bisexual male adolescents. Journal of adolescent research, 9 (4), pp. 498 – 508.) 91.5% of LGBT students report hearing homophobic remarks, such as “faggot,” “dyke” or the expression “that’s so gay” frequently or often.
Students who experience frequent verbal harassment because of their sexual orientation are less likely than other students to plan to attend college. 13.4% of LGBT students who report verbal harassment do not intend to go to college, twice the figure of those LGBT students who report only rare or less frequent verbal harassment (6.7%).
"New research reveals that rising rates of suicide in LGBT young adults has less to do with their “minority sexual orientation” status, and everything to do with the social stigma and negative societal responses that LGBT teens face on a daily basis as a result of gender expression outside our accepted norms. Consistent research over the past few years has shown that LGBT youths are disproportionately bullied, and that the effects of that bullying increase a risk of suicide that continues into adulthood."
Are you a recognized pro-gamer? Are you gay? Are you willing to go public about your sexuality?
If the answer to these questions are yes then I believe you should. The community needs to see that some if it's most praised players are gay. And that gay isn't synonymous with bad or cheese for some odd reason. You won't convince everyone, and whoever is brave enough to do this will certainly get at least some flak. But you just might save a life.
As for the rest of us, we have a much easier task. We just have to stop it. A cheese isn't gay it's annoying. The map abusing player isn't a fag he's a jerk. Being gay isn't an insult; we need to stop using it as one. And if you come across a player behaving in such a manner in a custom game just tell him "You're being a jerk, I don't want to play with you" and leave. If you run into such behavior on the ladder, beat them, then report them to blizzard for hate speech.
The following was posted in the previous thread and I could not have stated it better myself:
On October 27 2011 20:32 Oiseaux wrote: Even if the person using the word(s) doesn't have the intent to be homophobic per se, the intent is still meant to be derogatory. The act of using the the insult is then what ultimately matters; a group of people are being labeled as people that the person using the insults feels are somehow inferior or, to make a stretch, lesser beings. If the intent behind the insult isn't homophobic, then why is it necessary to refer to a stream cheater, stream sniper, cheeser etc. as a fag or gay? Simply put, it's because to be seen as belonging to this group is still an insult, therefore it's homophobic.
And honestly, to all the people that are saying they aren't meaning to be homophobic and that people just need to grow thicker skin, why are you so invested in using this group as an insult? There are plenty of words that can be used to express an annoyance with someone that doesn't insult a group of people, so why do you feel the need to attach yourself to this one? There is a very long history (and just as important, a continuing history) of homophobia behind using gay and fag as an insult that it currently not possible to detach the words from that history.
If anything, I would hope the gaming community would want to remove stuff like this from their lexicon if for any reason than to give themselves legitimacy. The burden is on us to prove to the world that esports is something to be taken seriously and not just some teenagers past time. However if the community is still hanging on to this attitude, then we'll be seen as nothing more than just juvenile teenagers raging over a game. Yes, I know this a problem that exists outside of gaming as well, but we don't have the developed legitimacy and it's our job to rise above it.
Bogaert AF (September 2004). "The prevalence of male homosexuality: the effect of fraternal birth order and variations in family size". Journal of Theoretical Biology 230 (1): 33–7. doi:10.1016/j.jtbi.2004.04.035. PMID 15275997. Bogaert argues that: "The prevalence of male homosexuality is debated. One widely reported early estimate was 10% (e.g., Marmor, 1980; Voeller, 1990). Some recent data provided support for this estimate (Bagley and Tremblay, 1998), but most recent large national samples suggest that the prevalence of male homosexuality in modern western societies, including the United States, is lower than this early estimate (e.g., 1–2% in Billy et al., 1993; 2–3% in Laumann et al., 1994; 6% in Sell et al., 1995; 1–3% in Wellings et al., 1994). It is of note, however, that homosexuality is defined in different ways in these studies. For example, some use same-sex behavior and not same-sex attraction as the operational definition of homosexuality (e.g., Billy et al., 1993); many sex researchers (e.g., Bailey et al., 2000; Bogaert, 2003; Money, 1988; Zucker and Bradley, 1995) now emphasize attraction over overt behavior in conceptualizing sexual orientation." (p. 33) Also: "...the prevalence of male homosexuality (in particular, same-sex attraction) varies over time and across societies (and hence is a "moving target") in part because of two effects: (1) variations in fertility rate or family size; and (2) the fraternal birth order effect. Thus, even if accurately measured in one country at one time, the rate of male homosexuality is subject to change and is not generalizable over time or across societies." (p. 33)
Its the internet. There is nothing you can do about it. If you hate it, put up your filters or block someone. While I can see your agony, I think this has a pretty easy solution. If you are gay and are especially offended by homophobic banter, block obscene chats and block communications instead of whining about it.
Once again, its the internet.. anyone and everyone is a prime target. Be smart about it!
On October 28 2011 03:29 EricCartman wrote: Its the internet. There is nothing you can do about it. If you hate it, put up your filters or block someone. While I can see your agony, I think this has a pretty easy solution. If you are gay and are especially offended by homophobic banter, block obscene chats and block communications instead of whining about it.
Once again, its the internet.. anyone and everyone is a prime target. Be smart about it!
This sort of justification really bothers me. If this sort of "this is just how it is" justification was always followed, then there would have been no social change whatsoever in the entire history of the world.
tldr was to long, im guessing ure against people insulting other in the community with words like homo fag or queer? If ur that sensitive, u shouldnt be using the internet at all. Also gay people should relize when u flame someone with ``gay`` it isnt intended as an insult towards homosexuals but more what the word has become to be known as. In other words before u say this stuff u should rather subject to change the hole word gay ``stereotype``, gl with that
On October 28 2011 03:34 ownyaah wrote: tldr was to long, im guessing ure against people insulting other in the community with words like homo fag or queer? If ur that sensitive, u shouldnt be using the internet at all. Also gay people should relize when u flame someone with ``gay`` it isnt intended as an insult towards homosexuals but more what the word has become to be known as. In other words before u say this stuff u should rather subject to change the hole word gay ``stereotype``, gl with that
agree. gay doesnt always refer to homos... its not all about you guys!
On October 28 2011 03:29 EricCartman wrote: Its the internet. There is nothing you can do about it. If you hate it, put up your filters or block someone. While I can see your agony, I think this has a pretty easy solution. If you are gay and are especially offended by homophobic banter, block obscene chats and block communications instead of whining about it.
Once again, its the internet.. anyone and everyone is a prime target. Be smart about it!
This sort of justification really bothers me. If this sort of "this is just how it is" justification was always followed, then there would have been no social change whatsoever in the entire history of the world.
I'm going to just say that when people throw faggot and homo and gay around on the internet they are almost never trying to insult you because of your sexual orientation. When you all in someone and they call you a faggot, they are just angry at your behavior in game. It has nothing to do with your actual sexual orientation. I usually open up my game by typing out extremely ... straight ... song lyrics and I still get called faggot half the time.
On October 28 2011 03:29 EricCartman wrote: Its the internet. There is nothing you can do about it. If you hate it, put up your filters or block someone. While I can see your agony, I think this has a pretty easy solution. If you are gay and are especially offended by homophobic banter, block obscene chats and block communications instead of whining about it.
Once again, its the internet.. anyone and everyone is a prime target. Be smart about it!
This sort of justification really bothers me. If this sort of "this is just how it is" justification was always followed, then there would have been no social change whatsoever in the entire history of the world.
Anyone who doesn't believe gays deserve to be treated with just as much respect as the next guy is a faggot. Also! gay progamers, i know you are out there show yourself^^
Why are you surprised that people react negatively to this? I dont even think its a gay thing. They just find it annoying. I would just assume anyone using a ♥ is being a dick. When I used to play BW with my brother, he got pissed off whenever I said gl hf. It got to the point were he would rage quit and refuse to play me until I apologized. I dont go that far, but still consider adding a heart or exclamation point bm; think others do as well.
A troll wouldn't write more than a sentence to get his point across. I am being realistic in my views. I've nothing against homosexuality. Just be smart about things instead of complaining.
On October 28 2011 03:37 sealpuncher wrote: I'm going to just say that when people throw faggot and homo and gay around on the internet they are almost never trying to insult you because of your sexual orientation. When you all in someone and they call you a faggot, they are just angry at your behavior in game. It has nothing to do with your actual sexual orientation. I usually open up my game by typing out extremely ... straight ... song lyrics and I still get called faggot half the time.
Don't you see the similarities between this video and what you're saying? You can't just "take back" a word with an extensive history of being used to insult a specific group of people (even up the current day) and repurpose it. It will always carry the homophobic meaning whether you intend it or not. THE REASON it is offensive is because it is meant to be offensive for a straight man to be called gay, because gay people are supposedly inferior.
On October 28 2011 03:43 EricCartman wrote: A troll wouldn't write more than a sentence to get his point across. I am being realistic in my views. I've nothing against homosexuality. Just be smart about things instead of complaining.
Since when has "being smart" meant accepting the status quo? Some of the smartest people in history have worked to make the world a better place by changing people's minds, and that's the reason I respect the OP's efforts and have little respect for your complacency.
Compared to being publicly chastised and persecuted, having to deal with the occasional "homo" or "faggot" seems a pretty good deal to me.
Society accepts homos more than ever and the more time goes by, the more normal it will appear to peck the fudge. Also, most people have no problems with gay people and still use "fag" as derogatory. It's nothing against you guys, it's bashing the adversary.
I for one don't mind homos, I support gay marriage and adoption and so on, but I will proceed raging about the "gayest cheese ever" whenever I like.
Also: I would not care if any progamer proclaimed their sexual identity. Seriously, what do I care if some progamer prefers the brown to the pink?
On October 28 2011 03:37 sealpuncher wrote: I'm going to just say that when people throw faggot and homo and gay around on the internet they are almost never trying to insult you because of your sexual orientation. When you all in someone and they call you a faggot, they are just angry at your behavior in game. It has nothing to do with your actual sexual orientation. I usually open up my game by typing out extremely ... straight ... song lyrics and I still get called faggot half the time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Yh7TVDXH8Y Don't you see the similarities between this video and what you're saying? You can't just "take back" a word with an extensive history of being used to insult a specific group of people (even up the current day) and repurpose it. It will always carry the homophobic meaning whether you intend it or not. THE REASON it is offensive is because it is meant to be offensive for a straight man to be called gay, because gay people are supposedly inferior.
The meaning of words is determined by the majority. Sort of like how gay got changed from meaning happy to meaning homosexual. Terms like Faggot are undergoing the same treatment, I think the future generations will not know what terms like faggot were meant to be used for and won't correlate it with homosexuality.
And I do use terms like faggot in my vocabulary because here in southern california, if you say "stop being a faggot man" it's basically the same thing as "stop being an idiot man".
They both mean the same thing to 99% of people here, as going through school I hear the term faggot used a lot. It's a part of normal slang vocabulary.
I'm not gay, but I don't think homosexuals would use such a term in this regard, though.
On October 28 2011 03:34 ownyaah wrote: tldr was to long, im guessing ure against people insulting other in the community with words like homo fag or queer? If ur that sensitive, u shouldnt be using the internet at all. Also gay people should relize when u flame someone with ``gay`` it isnt intended as an insult towards homosexuals but more what the word has become to be known as. In other words before u say this stuff u should rather subject to change the hole word gay ``stereotype``, gl with that
agree. gay doesnt always refer to homos... its not all about you guys!
.. honestly, this isnt an insult but homosexuals just like women,black people etc. minjorities think the hole world is after them and we are all evil.. srsly it is annoying. you must relize that most people dont really give a flying fuck about you. ( thanks )
On October 28 2011 03:37 sealpuncher wrote: I'm going to just say that when people throw faggot and homo and gay around on the internet they are almost never trying to insult you because of your sexual orientation. When you all in someone and they call you a faggot, they are just angry at your behavior in game. It has nothing to do with your actual sexual orientation. I usually open up my game by typing out extremely ... straight ... song lyrics and I still get called faggot half the time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Yh7TVDXH8Y Don't you see the similarities between this video and what you're saying? You can't just "take back" a word with an extensive history of being used to insult a specific group of people (even up the current day) and repurpose it. It will always carry the homophobic meaning whether you intend it or not. THE REASON it is offensive is because it is meant to be offensive for a straight man to be called gay, because gay people are supposedly inferior.
The meaning of words is determined by the majority. Sort of like how gay got changed from meaning happy to meaning homosexual. Terms like Faggot are undergoing the same treatment, I think the future generations will not know what terms like faggot were meant to be used for and won't correlate it with homosexuality.
Except "faggot" is still the insult of choice for bullies looking to pick on gay kids. I don't understand how you can argue that this isn't the most widely used and deeply ingrained meaning of the word in the United States.
Saying something like "You gay! you are cannon rushing me!" for example really isn't insulting anyone's sexuality at all. When you are playing against someone they usually don't care about you, they just want to beat you. It's a fairly common call anybody, especially if your a young person, gay. I understand it is wrong to do so, but being upset and taking such things personally is pretty silly, and it won't change overnight. People are rude, they are very negative, they are assholes on the internet, it will never change.
after cheesing for the hundredth time on the ladder I have been called a faggot. I stopped. I laughed real hard and promptly answered: qqmoreumadcoolstorybrohahahaha I did not get mad or offended.
A huge majority of people that play sc2 are males. That means that you are probably a male, and your opponent is probably a male. the sign <3 is the sign for love.
This means that you are saying you love you opponent, and since you are both males, its saying you love another male, making the statement gay/homosexual/whatever term you use.
When i say it to my friends, we all know we're joking (granted i do love them, but not sexually) and we joke around all the time because we're comfortable in our sexuality. By saying gl hf <3 to people you dont know, youre intentionally risking BM.
We are on the internet, playing a game. Gay is internet/gaming slang, Faggot is internet/gaming slang. Rape is internet/gaming slang. You meet someone who was raped before when you talk about how hard you raped a zerg with your new build or something, and if they are a fellow gamer, they probably won't be hurt by it. If they are, they'll know that it wasn't intentionally to hurt them.
On the other end of the spectrum, calling someone a faggot is meant to be hurtful to them, and while it originated with bias towards homosexual, its become a common insult in society today. All it means when someone calls you a faggot is that they're mad at you, and they're raging. It doesn't mean that they are calling you a homosexual, it means that you did something to piss them off and they want to insult you.
Nobody cares if you're gay or straight, they may judge you because they have a bias if they know, but the majority of people do not, and they do not insult you because you are gay or straight, they insult you because you play sc2.
there is no gay bashing going on, the sc2 community is a relatively nice community, theres just player bashing going on, and the words of choice were once insults towards homosexuals (and they still are) but they are primarily standard insults, like idiot.
Well this thread is should prove to be face-palm inducing. Ban trap is set I guess.
While it is probably futile, I do agree with the OP 100%. In fact it's part of a larger issue concerning BM in online games. Just because someone bested you does not give you the right to insult or harass them, doing so is small and pitiful. While the impact may be small, maybe one day we can change our culture.
The fa- word still means what it always meant, no matter how hard you want to make it mean something else.
To everyone saying that the OP is QQing... really? Yes he could block online chat, but that doesn't solve the problem. Take another look at those suicide statistics please.
EPT
