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On October 28 2011 04:13 schnizzle wrote:
in my honest opinion, its only a view of anti-homophobia that is keeping these terms homophobic, if it weren't for people constantly complaining about the use of "gay" or "fag" they would just slip into the list of words that are general insults and lose all real meaning.
"Douchebag" was originally used as a demeaning insult toward women (and considering that women primarily douched their parts in the olden days to make themselves acceptable in mens' presence, it carried that extra twinge of induced self-loathing by the patriarchy).
Today it's used almost exclusively to describe sleazy men, if it has any meaning at all.
Such is the fate of most insults, save those few who groups for their own purposes (or perhaps mistakenly) keep fresh and alive by attempting to ban them or make them verboten.
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Ok, so if i say "nice cannon rush you fag", you would consider me a contributor toward homo suicide?
Sorry, but I don't buy that. Suicide is a coward's way out, fucking man up and face the music. I have *no* sympathy for anyone who commits suicide. I'm sorry, you took the easy way out and likely hurt the people who DID care about you.
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On October 28 2011 03:59 TheToast wrote:
Well this thread is should prove to be face-palm inducing. Ban trap is set I guess.
While it is probably futile, I do agree with the OP 100%. In fact it's part of a larger issue concerning BM in online games. Just because someone bested you does not give you the right to insult or harass them, doing so is small and pitiful. While the impact may be small, maybe one day we can change our culture.
The fa- word still means what it always meant, no matter how hard you want to make it mean something else.
To everyone saying that the OP is QQing... really? Yes he could block online chat, but that doesn't solve the problem. Take another look at those suicide statistics please.
Meaning is based on context. If someone were to call a cheesing person/cannon-rusher a faggot, anyone but a moron can distinguish that he is insulting the person based on their ingame decision to perform and annoying and risky play as opposed to insulting them for their sexual orientation outside of the game. You can't even be sure whether someone is heterosexual or homosexual through the internet unless they explicitly tell you.
In the context of gaming, staying someone is gay or a "faggot" is not meant to be congruent with issuing a defamatory insult that defines someone as not heterosexual. Gamers can replace the word "faggot" with anything they wish and still end up with the same meaning when they insult someone through a video game. The context the word is used in is really the only one that matters, IMO. If the end result is that one is insulted for cheesing, regardless of the word used, and both parties understand the context that word is used in, who are you to say that we can or can't use it?
I'd really like to know why suicide statistics are brought up in regards to using bm ingame. If you can't handle the language or the bad eggs of the community, their is always a filter built in to the game and one built between your ears.
One could even argue the misuse of the word cheeser as being defamatory if the community organized an opinion that cheeser meant someone lacked inherent skill in playing the game. Someone who has played the game for a long time could be extremely insulted and take that in a really bad way.
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The use of an adjective that describes your fundamental identity to connote "bad" or "inferior" is hurtful. That's because the reason the word means bad or inferior is that your kind is perceived as bad or inferior. "Your kind" could be anyone; gays, blacks, tall people, Eskimos, whatever. As long as the prejudice exists (and homophobic prejudice is not dead even in places where people would like to think it is), when someone uses the word you cannot be sure that it isn't charged with that original prejudice. The problem is that the two meanings are conflated --- some people use the word to mean one thing, some people use it to mean the other, and some people use it to mean both things because they think they're connected. Sure, you can get used to it, in the same way you can get used to a bad smell. That doesn't mean some fresh air wouldn't be nice.
"Gay" isn't going to stop meaning "homosexual" any time soon, so the pejorative usage of the word reflects immaturity (at best) and bigotry (at worst).
To put it another way: Suppose that people use the name "Joe" to mean "total moron," because back in the day people thought anyone called "Joe" was a total moron. Plenty of people still do think that Joes are total morons. Your name is Joe. Happy?
Another example: I'm not sexist. I just use the term "female" to mean someone who's bitchy, whiny, overly concerned with their appearance, and likes to go shopping --- because everyone else uses it that way! It has nothing to do with the person's gender, so I'm not a sexist.
(Yes, I know this is a conversation about usage over the internet and that people are immature on the internet. That doesn't mean you should be.)
Suicide is a coward's way out, fucking man up and face the music. I have *no* sympathy for anyone who commits suicide. I'm sorry, you took the easy way out and likely hurt the people who DID care about you.
This adds nothing. If circumstances are bad enough to drive someone to suicide, those circumstances should have been amended even if suicide was still the wrong choice.
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On October 28 2011 03:43 treekiller wrote:
tldr except for the part about you typing:
gl hf ♥
Why are you surprised that people react negatively to this? I dont even think its a gay thing. They just find it annoying. I would just assume anyone using a ♥ is being a dick. When I used to play BW with my brother, he got pissed off whenever I said gl hf. It got to the point were he would rage quit and refuse to play me until I apologized. I dont go that far, but still consider adding a heart or exclamation point bm; think others do as well.
+1
Also, I dont think people are in their hearts bashing gays. It's just an anger thing. And people get angry so they will just say crap all the time. In other words: In my opinion, it's nothing.
Also, why the hell does a progamer have to go public with this? Should someone just cry out about their heterosexuality? Stop trying to shove things down our throat, this is 2011, we ARE aware for many years now...
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On October 28 2011 04:08 Gdarkness wrote:
I think where people go wrong on this "debate" is they try to argue the logical/rational aspect, when the issue at hand is not about that. The pain of being called a "fag" is emotional, and it is not something you can rationalize away that easily, or at all depending on the person.
This thread (reading the responses to it) makes me really sad. Nice to see 1 or 2 reasonable responses. Yeah they're only words, and maybe they're not remotely intended to be homophobic, but words can have a powerful and very real effect on people... I guess I wish people would have a bit more empathy for their fellow human beings.
On October 28 2011 06:01 Djabanete wrote:The use of an adjective that describes your fundamental identity to connote "bad" or "inferior" is hurtful. That's because the reason the word means bad or inferior is that your kind is perceived as bad or inferior. "Your kind" could be anyone; gays, blacks, tall people, Eskimos, whatever. As long as the prejudice exists (and homophobic prejudice is not dead even in places where people would like to think it is), when someone uses the word you cannot be sure that it isn't charged with that original prejudice. The problem is that the two meanings are conflated --- some people use the word to mean one thing, some people use it to mean the other, and some people use it to mean both things because they think they're connected. Sure, you can get used to it, in the same way you can get used to a bad smell. That doesn't mean some fresh air wouldn't be nice. "Gay" isn't going to stop meaning "homosexual" any time soon, so the pejorative usage of the word reflects of immaturity (at best) and bigotry (at worst). To put it another way: Suppose that people use the name "Joe" to mean "total moron," because back in the day people thought anyone called "Joe" was a total moron. Plenty of people still do think that Joes are total morons. Your name is Joe. Happy? (Yes, I know this is a conversation about usage over the internet and that people are immature on the internet. That doesn't mean you should be.) Show nested quote +
Suicide is a coward's way out, fucking man up and face the music. I have *no* sympathy for anyone who commits suicide. I'm sorry, you took the easy way out and likely hurt the people who DID care about you.
This adds nothing. If circumstances are bad enough to drive someone to suicide, those circumstances should have been amended even if suicide was still the wrong choice.
Thanks this is the sort of thing I wanted to say but couldn't find the words 
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Calgary25975 Posts
On October 28 2011 06:01 Djabanete wrote:
The use of an adjective that describes your fundamental identity to connote "bad" or "inferior" is hurtful.
When gay meant "happy" was it super uplifting?
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On October 28 2011 06:14 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 06:01 Djabanete wrote:
The use of an adjective that describes your fundamental identity to connote "bad" or "inferior" is hurtful. When gay meant "happy" was it super uplifting?
I don't know, I wasn't around. Do you know?
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On October 28 2011 06:15 Djabanete wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 06:14 Chill wrote:On October 28 2011 06:01 Djabanete wrote:
The use of an adjective that describes your fundamental identity to connote "bad" or "inferior" is hurtful. When gay meant "happy" was it super uplifting? I don't know, I wasn't around. Do you know?
When you read literature from the "internet-imposed before-faggot" era, do you ever read the word gay as anything but happy?
Most old people I've heard use the word gay actually think of it as uplifting, lol.
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On October 28 2011 05:48 Audemed wrote:
Ok, so if i say "nice cannon rush you fag", you would consider me a contributor toward homo suicide?
Sorry, but I don't buy that. Suicide is a coward's way out, fucking man up and face the music. I have *no* sympathy for anyone who commits suicide. I'm sorry, you took the easy way out and likely hurt the people who DID care about you.
So preventing a suicide is not important. Telling someone to "man up" in the face of mental breakdowns, harassment, and having no friends is like telling a crippled old man who is in a wheelchair to kick himself because he cant walk up a flight of stairs. You have NO sympathy for children and teenagers on the edge of suicide, and somehow you also think that it is easy?
You're right, it is the easy way out, dammit, but that doesn't mean that you tell someone to "fucking man up and face the music". You wanna be on the edge of suicide sometime, with a gun next to you and a whole lot of reason to use it?
That being said, I never insult my opponents ever, just because I never know who might be on the other side of the screen, and what might happen as a result of their being mocked.
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I am not a pro gamer, but I do love games and I am not afraid to state publicly that I am bi. I get bashed almost never in real life, but under the anonymity of the Internet I get plenty of shit. Just ignore it. They're trying to get a rise out of you, so don't let them win.
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On October 28 2011 06:17 stevarius wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 06:15 Djabanete wrote:On October 28 2011 06:14 Chill wrote:On October 28 2011 06:01 Djabanete wrote:
The use of an adjective that describes your fundamental identity to connote "bad" or "inferior" is hurtful. When gay meant "happy" was it super uplifting? I don't know, I wasn't around. Do you know? When you read literature from the "internet-imposed before-faggot" era, do you ever read the word gay as anything but happy?
To be honest, the meaning "homosexual" always passes through my head when I read the word "gay" in print. Like, if it's the Fellowship of the Ring and the elves and hobbits are being gay, then I definitely understand the intended meaning, but the other interpretation still comes to my mind unbidden (as it did to yours just then).
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On October 28 2011 06:19 PraetorialGamer wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 05:48 Audemed wrote:
Ok, so if i say "nice cannon rush you fag", you would consider me a contributor toward homo suicide?
Sorry, but I don't buy that. Suicide is a coward's way out, fucking man up and face the music. I have *no* sympathy for anyone who commits suicide. I'm sorry, you took the easy way out and likely hurt the people who DID care about you.
So preventing a suicide is not important. Telling someone to "man up" in the face of mental breakdowns, harassment, and having no friends is like telling a crippled old man who is in a wheelchair to kick himself because he cant walk up a flight of stairs. You have NO sympathy for children and teenagers on the edge of suicide, and somehow you also think that it is easy? You're right, it is the easy way out, dammit, but that doesn't mean that you tell someone to "fucking man up and face the music". You wanna be on the edge of suicide sometime, with a gun next to you and a whole lot of reason to use it? That being said, I never insult my opponents ever, just because I never know who might be on the other side of the screen, and what might happen as a result of their being mocked.
I've been diagnosed with post deployment PTSD. I have had far more reasons to pull the trigger than some pussy who doesn't like being called names, and I have the means available to do it 24/7. I have considered it once, and understood it's not the solution. Get off your proverbial high ground, you tard. I'm quite versed in the overarching suicide situation, and my view on it still stands. No sympathy.
User was warned for this post
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I agree 100% with the OP and what TheToast was saying. I really don't think it's too much to ask that If you're going to insult someone you do it in a slightly less dickish way.
On October 28 2011 05:48 Audemed wrote:
Ok, so if i say "nice cannon rush you fag", you would consider me a contributor toward homo suicide?
Sorry, but I don't buy that. Suicide is a coward's way out, fucking man up and face the music. I have *no* sympathy for anyone who commits suicide. I'm sorry, you took the easy way out and likely hurt the people who DID care about you.
You really have no idea what you're talking about. If it was that easy there would be no suicides, but it isn't. Mental health is serious, and human psychology is extremely complicated.
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On October 28 2011 06:19 PraetorialGamer wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 05:48 Audemed wrote:
Ok, so if i say "nice cannon rush you fag", you would consider me a contributor toward homo suicide?
Sorry, but I don't buy that. Suicide is a coward's way out, fucking man up and face the music. I have *no* sympathy for anyone who commits suicide. I'm sorry, you took the easy way out and likely hurt the people who DID care about you.
So preventing a suicide is not important. Telling someone to "man up" in the face of mental breakdowns, harassment, and having no friends is like telling a crippled old man who is in a wheelchair to kick himself because he cant walk up a flight of stairs. You have NO sympathy for children and teenagers on the edge of suicide, and somehow you also think that it is easy? You're right, it is the easy way out, dammit, but that doesn't mean that you tell someone to "fucking man up and face the music". You wanna be on the edge of suicide sometime, with a gun next to you and a whole lot of reason to use it? That being said, I never insult my opponents ever, just because I never know who might be on the other side of the screen, and what might happen as a result of their being mocked.
If you're a teenager and a gun is next to you in the open, your parents are shitty and that is probably the least of your problems.
If you're a grown man, you should have the capabilities of handling your life and encounters you face, otherwise if you make a decision to commit suicide that decision is 100% on you as you are now responsible for your own well-being.
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Look, OP, I understand where you're coming from, but...
The sheer fact that the insult "fag" is thrown out (especially in gaming) without any knowledge of the recipient's sexuality goes to show that it's not really a homophobic slur anymore - sure, its meant to hurt the person its thrown toward but it doesn't really imply that the person is gay.
Shouldn't this be a good thing? Isn't it somewhat good that it's become more generic and more of a like a "bland slur", so to speak?
Anyway, with that being said, I feel like you're being incredibly weak here - I'm not gay, I'm not stupid, I'm not a dog rapist and I'm not bag of shit, but damned if I haven't been called all of those things while playing video games. They're faceless insults, and by letting it get to you, you're letting them win.
The word fag isn't OP. It's only as powerful as you let it be and right now you're letting it cannon rush you.
Furthermore, people are entitled to the privacy of their sexual identities and by calling famous gamers out and suggesting that they aren't brave if they don't come out, that's almost as bad as the insulters you meet in/after games.
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On October 28 2011 06:27 Audemed wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 06:19 PraetorialGamer wrote:On October 28 2011 05:48 Audemed wrote:
Ok, so if i say "nice cannon rush you fag", you would consider me a contributor toward homo suicide?
Sorry, but I don't buy that. Suicide is a coward's way out, fucking man up and face the music. I have *no* sympathy for anyone who commits suicide. I'm sorry, you took the easy way out and likely hurt the people who DID care about you.
So preventing a suicide is not important. Telling someone to "man up" in the face of mental breakdowns, harassment, and having no friends is like telling a crippled old man who is in a wheelchair to kick himself because he cant walk up a flight of stairs. You have NO sympathy for children and teenagers on the edge of suicide, and somehow you also think that it is easy? You're right, it is the easy way out, dammit, but that doesn't mean that you tell someone to "fucking man up and face the music". You wanna be on the edge of suicide sometime, with a gun next to you and a whole lot of reason to use it? That being said, I never insult my opponents ever, just because I never know who might be on the other side of the screen, and what might happen as a result of their being mocked. I've been diagnosed with post deployment PTSD. I have had far more reasons to pull the trigger than some pussy who doesn't like being called names, and I have the means available to do it 24/7. I have considered it once, and understood it's not the solution. Get off your proverbial high ground, you tard. I'm quite versed in the overarching suicide situation, and my view on it still stands. No sympathy.
Well, not everyone is as strong as you. No sympathy is harsh.
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On October 28 2011 06:34 Belano wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 06:27 Audemed wrote:On October 28 2011 06:19 PraetorialGamer wrote:On October 28 2011 05:48 Audemed wrote:
Ok, so if i say "nice cannon rush you fag", you would consider me a contributor toward homo suicide?
Sorry, but I don't buy that. Suicide is a coward's way out, fucking man up and face the music. I have *no* sympathy for anyone who commits suicide. I'm sorry, you took the easy way out and likely hurt the people who DID care about you.
So preventing a suicide is not important. Telling someone to "man up" in the face of mental breakdowns, harassment, and having no friends is like telling a crippled old man who is in a wheelchair to kick himself because he cant walk up a flight of stairs. You have NO sympathy for children and teenagers on the edge of suicide, and somehow you also think that it is easy? You're right, it is the easy way out, dammit, but that doesn't mean that you tell someone to "fucking man up and face the music". You wanna be on the edge of suicide sometime, with a gun next to you and a whole lot of reason to use it? That being said, I never insult my opponents ever, just because I never know who might be on the other side of the screen, and what might happen as a result of their being mocked. I've been diagnosed with post deployment PTSD. I have had far more reasons to pull the trigger than some pussy who doesn't like being called names, and I have the means available to do it 24/7. I have considered it once, and understood it's not the solution. Get off your proverbial high ground, you tard. I'm quite versed in the overarching suicide situation, and my view on it still stands. No sympathy. Well, not everyone is as strong as you. No sympathy is harsh.
Exactly. You(Audemed) resisted it, but you had PTSD and are an adult. What about a kid that is being constantly pushed around for being gay? Is this kid strong enough to resist, is he a "wimp" for thinking of it?
A gun isn't the only way-overdoses and intentional gas poisoning work perfectly well too. I may be taking the proverbial high ground, as you put it, but I place value on every human life that can possibly be saved, no matter the circumstance.
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On October 28 2011 06:27 Audemed wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 06:19 PraetorialGamer wrote:On October 28 2011 05:48 Audemed wrote:
Ok, so if i say "nice cannon rush you fag", you would consider me a contributor toward homo suicide?
Sorry, but I don't buy that. Suicide is a coward's way out, fucking man up and face the music. I have *no* sympathy for anyone who commits suicide. I'm sorry, you took the easy way out and likely hurt the people who DID care about you.
So preventing a suicide is not important. Telling someone to "man up" in the face of mental breakdowns, harassment, and having no friends is like telling a crippled old man who is in a wheelchair to kick himself because he cant walk up a flight of stairs. You have NO sympathy for children and teenagers on the edge of suicide, and somehow you also think that it is easy? You're right, it is the easy way out, dammit, but that doesn't mean that you tell someone to "fucking man up and face the music". You wanna be on the edge of suicide sometime, with a gun next to you and a whole lot of reason to use it? That being said, I never insult my opponents ever, just because I never know who might be on the other side of the screen, and what might happen as a result of their being mocked. I've been diagnosed with post deployment PTSD. I have had far more reasons to pull the trigger than some pussy who doesn't like being called names, and I have the means available to do it 24/7. I have considered it once, and understood it's not the solution. Get off your proverbial high ground, you tard. I'm quite versed in the overarching suicide situation, and my view on it still stands. No sympathy. User was warned for this post
Your circumstances are your own, and it's admirable that you didn't take your life when you were considering it. But there's a difference between disagreeing with an act (and I share your feelings there) and sympathizing with a person who's suffering.
In other words, if people are killing themselves, there's a big problem beyond the simple fact that they're killing themselves.
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On October 28 2011 05:35 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2011 03:38 Rubber wrote:On October 28 2011 03:37 EricCartman wrote:On October 28 2011 03:34 Rubber wrote:On October 28 2011 03:29 EricCartman wrote:
Its the internet. There is nothing you can do about it. If you hate it, put up your filters or block someone. While I can see your agony, I think this has a pretty easy solution. If you are gay and are especially offended by homophobic banter, block obscene chats and block communications instead of whining about it.
Once again, its the internet.. anyone and everyone is a prime target. Be smart about it! This sort of justification really bothers me. If this sort of "this is just how it is" justification was always followed, then there would have been no social change whatsoever in the entire history of the world. bro.. deal with it. we all are. Alright now I just think you're trolling. Aren't the guys you complaining about doing the same thing? Because they know it gets on your nerves? The best way to deal with it is to ignore it. This isn't Korea where you can call the internet police. It really isn't so simple. Sure, there are cases out there where people are charged for helping with the deaths of certain individuals. It truly is the nature of the faceless beast. If you don't know them then it really shouldn't matter to you.
I think you're missing the point of the thread. No one is trying to "call the internet police" and shut down people who say words they don't like. From what I gather from the OP, he's trying to make a case for why people shouldn't use homophobically charged insults so casually, if at all. Whether you want to take him up on his advice or not is ultimately up to you.
I guess I'm just confused at why is it that if I call someone a "nigger" with the intent to insult them, it's clear to everyone that I'm being racist (implied: I am caucasian, you are African American/I believe you are African American/share the traits of an African American and are therefore inferior to me), but if I call someone a "faggot" (implied: I am a heterosexual, you are homosexual/share the traits of a homosexual and are therefore inferior to me) as an insult so many people think that what I meant is open to interpretation and depends on my intent?
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