On April 25 2013 05:02 Thieving Magpie wrote:
An unknown player (people knew about illusion) got put on the big screen and did well. She then proceeded to do really well. She then proceeded to win WCS Canada, WCS North America and was a heavy hitter with Nerchio in team Acer. She spread creep like a Korean and was aggressive and moved around the map.
illusion almost doing well and then falling short was a regular enough occurrence. new player doing well was ripe with possibility. And when she delivered is when her popularity surged.
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2013 03:47 Rhaegar_tar wrote:
You definitely weren't around...when she beat Terious and Demuslim people were fapping on her results and because she was a girl when Illusion did much better...this is why i kinda understand the hate and the talk about her sex. If she was a woman, she'd be exactly like Illusion, Vibe or Lucifron. It didn't help her case that she had many fans despite a patchzzery play when other europeans were hated for it.
On April 25 2013 03:10 Thieving Magpie wrote:
IPL got her name on the map--but no one really talked *that* much about her until she won what should have been Huk's easy win trophy. And when she outdid both Idra and Vibe in the WCS North American finals it suddenly became clear that she was the best player in the North American scene and because of that I got fucking hyped for her as well as a lot of other people.
On April 25 2013 02:57 Rhaegar_tar wrote:
What? You don't follow the scene, do you?
Everybody started following her because of her IPL4 run, eventhough some players had better results(foreign players in the open bracket)...Yeah she got 1st US, but Suppy went the furthest in WCS global finals(and nobody seem to remember him)... as for beating MVP, MVP is in code B...
On April 25 2013 02:54 Thieving Magpie wrote:
And here I thought it was because she got 1st in Canada, 1st in US, beat MVP in proleague, was part of the nerchio/scarlett duo pre-MMA, etc...
On April 25 2013 02:38 Rhaegar_tar wrote:
The problem is that some people believe(legitimately) that she gained fame mainly by being a female player, and eventhough some players had better results than her in IPL4(went far in the open bracket, beating some koreans), they haven't been as recognized as Scarlett.
So no, your argument is invald.
On April 24 2013 17:37 gobbledydook wrote:
LYNCH HIM
but seriously, it should not be TL's business as to what Scarlett's sexual status is.
Starcraft ability, game ethics and personality are all legitimate avenues of criticism of a player, but personal issues certainly aren't.
On April 24 2013 17:00 Douillos wrote:
Faith in TL'ers restored.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All the best Scarlett your doing great in Korea, hope the injuries aren"t too bad and that your pause won't be too long!
On April 24 2013 16:05 Befree wrote:
I feel bad doing this, I know I shouldn't play into this, I know I should stay on topic and this is probably against the rules, I know it's none of our business, but when I read some of these ignorant comments I feel an obligation to reply.
First, her trans status is none of your business, has no effect on you, and shouldn't need to disclosed to you nor explained to you.
Second, you have completely outdated ideas of sex and gender. You first off latch onto your false characteristics of what defines each sex, none of which actually do clearly define sex as science has come to discover. Then you act as if these false characteristics are also what define gender for you, even though likely 99.99% of your evaluations of someone's gender throughout your life were not based on attributes like testosterone/estrogen levels, chromosomes, genitalia, or reproductive systems.
Third, and I believe this is most important here, you have no idea what being trans even is. You think it's someone who decides they want to be the other sex, and so they pretend and everyone plays along. That is NOT at all the case.
In the womb, the fetal brain is pushed towards a male gender through the action of testosterone on nerve cells, or towards female by the absence of this testosterone. This is the process that develops our gender identity in our brain and it occurs during the second half of pregnancy. But it's during the first two months of pregnancy that the sexual differentiation of the genitals occurs. Both these processes can be influenced independently and in some extreme cases can result in trans-sexuality. The degree of the masculinization of the genitals does not necessarily reflect the masculinization of the brain. There's no indication that the social environment after birth affects gender identity (*). There are studies (**) that compare the female brain to a male-to-female trans woman's brain and they also show the same thing that the male-to-female trans brain is structurally similar to the genetically female brain.
They are essentially a brain with a mismatched body. This incongruence can be very disruptive to a their life and make them feel horrible because they never feel right in their gender identity and their body. These extreme cases of gender dysphoria have been found to be treated best by sex reassignment therapy and hormone therapy. It is not meant to be cosmetic, elective, or optional in any meaningful way (***).
After two years of hormone replacement therapy and sexual reassignment therapy, a male-to-female trans woman is essentially physically female. In 2003, the International Olympic Committee Medical Commission even recommended for sport that all male-to-female trans women be regarded as female for competition as there was no meaningful physical difference after sex reassignment and two years of HRT.
For our particular case of Scarlett, she was born partially female, the more meaningful and important part, the brain. And now also has essentially a female body. It is NOT political correctness to call her female, it is not polite, it is not for the sake of making her feel good, it is simply the truth. She is female. You can be rude and hateful and refer to trans people by their gender they don't identify as, but you're only making a fool of yourself because you're wrong. And science has explained exactly why you are wrong. So instead of trying to push your ignorant, emotion-based, unscientific line of reasoning, how about you just shut the fuck up and take a moment to actually educate yourself on the matter before blurting out such stupidity.
Here's what I cited:
(*) Sexual Hormones and the Brain: An Essential Alliance for Sexual Identity and Sexual Orientation Garcia-Falgueras A, Swaab DF Endocr Dev. 2010;17:22-35
(**) Zhou et al Nature (1995) 378:68–70.
and
Male–to–female transsexuals have female neuron numbers in a limbic nucleus. Kruiver et al J Clin Endocrinol Metab (2000) 85:2034–2041
(***) http://www.wpath.org/documents2/socv6.pdf
(****) http://www.olympic.org/Documents/Reports/EN/en_report_905.pdf
-----
I recognize it is bad to derail a thread with a comment like this, and maybe it's a warning or ban, but I just cannot stand reading these completely ignorant comments from people who think they know what they're talking about. There is so much ignorance on transgender people and so much transphobia everywhere that I feel it is necessary to respond to this ignorance with the truth. Because I really don't think the vast majority of people have any idea of the science or facts around it. I do apologize, though, to Scarlett, for continuing the conversation on her transgender status which I do not feel is any of our business. It would probably be more appropriate in a transgender topic than her injury announcement thread, but I only mean to help and educate others.
----
I'm sorry to hear about Scarlett's injury. I've been a big fan since I remember first seeing her play at that MLG. We'll just have to be rooting extra hard for her in the WCS now then. Hopefully her break falls on the shorter side of the 2-6 month estimation, that's a really long time
.
I feel bad doing this, I know I shouldn't play into this, I know I should stay on topic and this is probably against the rules, I know it's none of our business, but when I read some of these ignorant comments I feel an obligation to reply.
First, her trans status is none of your business, has no effect on you, and shouldn't need to disclosed to you nor explained to you.
Second, you have completely outdated ideas of sex and gender. You first off latch onto your false characteristics of what defines each sex, none of which actually do clearly define sex as science has come to discover. Then you act as if these false characteristics are also what define gender for you, even though likely 99.99% of your evaluations of someone's gender throughout your life were not based on attributes like testosterone/estrogen levels, chromosomes, genitalia, or reproductive systems.
Third, and I believe this is most important here, you have no idea what being trans even is. You think it's someone who decides they want to be the other sex, and so they pretend and everyone plays along. That is NOT at all the case.
In the womb, the fetal brain is pushed towards a male gender through the action of testosterone on nerve cells, or towards female by the absence of this testosterone. This is the process that develops our gender identity in our brain and it occurs during the second half of pregnancy. But it's during the first two months of pregnancy that the sexual differentiation of the genitals occurs. Both these processes can be influenced independently and in some extreme cases can result in trans-sexuality. The degree of the masculinization of the genitals does not necessarily reflect the masculinization of the brain. There's no indication that the social environment after birth affects gender identity (*). There are studies (**) that compare the female brain to a male-to-female trans woman's brain and they also show the same thing that the male-to-female trans brain is structurally similar to the genetically female brain.
They are essentially a brain with a mismatched body. This incongruence can be very disruptive to a their life and make them feel horrible because they never feel right in their gender identity and their body. These extreme cases of gender dysphoria have been found to be treated best by sex reassignment therapy and hormone therapy. It is not meant to be cosmetic, elective, or optional in any meaningful way (***).
After two years of hormone replacement therapy and sexual reassignment therapy, a male-to-female trans woman is essentially physically female. In 2003, the International Olympic Committee Medical Commission even recommended for sport that all male-to-female trans women be regarded as female for competition as there was no meaningful physical difference after sex reassignment and two years of HRT.
For our particular case of Scarlett, she was born partially female, the more meaningful and important part, the brain. And now also has essentially a female body. It is NOT political correctness to call her female, it is not polite, it is not for the sake of making her feel good, it is simply the truth. She is female. You can be rude and hateful and refer to trans people by their gender they don't identify as, but you're only making a fool of yourself because you're wrong. And science has explained exactly why you are wrong. So instead of trying to push your ignorant, emotion-based, unscientific line of reasoning, how about you just shut the fuck up and take a moment to actually educate yourself on the matter before blurting out such stupidity.
Here's what I cited:
(*) Sexual Hormones and the Brain: An Essential Alliance for Sexual Identity and Sexual Orientation Garcia-Falgueras A, Swaab DF Endocr Dev. 2010;17:22-35
(**) Zhou et al Nature (1995) 378:68–70.
and
Male–to–female transsexuals have female neuron numbers in a limbic nucleus. Kruiver et al J Clin Endocrinol Metab (2000) 85:2034–2041
(***) http://www.wpath.org/documents2/socv6.pdf
(****) http://www.olympic.org/Documents/Reports/EN/en_report_905.pdf
-----
I recognize it is bad to derail a thread with a comment like this, and maybe it's a warning or ban, but I just cannot stand reading these completely ignorant comments from people who think they know what they're talking about. There is so much ignorance on transgender people and so much transphobia everywhere that I feel it is necessary to respond to this ignorance with the truth. Because I really don't think the vast majority of people have any idea of the science or facts around it. I do apologize, though, to Scarlett, for continuing the conversation on her transgender status which I do not feel is any of our business. It would probably be more appropriate in a transgender topic than her injury announcement thread, but I only mean to help and educate others.
----
I'm sorry to hear about Scarlett's injury. I've been a big fan since I remember first seeing her play at that MLG. We'll just have to be rooting extra hard for her in the WCS now then. Hopefully her break falls on the shorter side of the 2-6 month estimation, that's a really long time

Faith in TL'ers restored.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All the best Scarlett your doing great in Korea, hope the injuries aren"t too bad and that your pause won't be too long!
LYNCH HIM
but seriously, it should not be TL's business as to what Scarlett's sexual status is.
Starcraft ability, game ethics and personality are all legitimate avenues of criticism of a player, but personal issues certainly aren't.
The problem is that some people believe(legitimately) that she gained fame mainly by being a female player, and eventhough some players had better results than her in IPL4(went far in the open bracket, beating some koreans), they haven't been as recognized as Scarlett.
So no, your argument is invald.
And here I thought it was because she got 1st in Canada, 1st in US, beat MVP in proleague, was part of the nerchio/scarlett duo pre-MMA, etc...
What? You don't follow the scene, do you?
Everybody started following her because of her IPL4 run, eventhough some players had better results(foreign players in the open bracket)...Yeah she got 1st US, but Suppy went the furthest in WCS global finals(and nobody seem to remember him)... as for beating MVP, MVP is in code B...
IPL got her name on the map--but no one really talked *that* much about her until she won what should have been Huk's easy win trophy. And when she outdid both Idra and Vibe in the WCS North American finals it suddenly became clear that she was the best player in the North American scene and because of that I got fucking hyped for her as well as a lot of other people.
You definitely weren't around...when she beat Terious and Demuslim people were fapping on her results and because she was a girl when Illusion did much better...this is why i kinda understand the hate and the talk about her sex. If she was a woman, she'd be exactly like Illusion, Vibe or Lucifron. It didn't help her case that she had many fans despite a patchzzery play when other europeans were hated for it.
An unknown player (people knew about illusion) got put on the big screen and did well. She then proceeded to do really well. She then proceeded to win WCS Canada, WCS North America and was a heavy hitter with Nerchio in team Acer. She spread creep like a Korean and was aggressive and moved around the map.
illusion almost doing well and then falling short was a regular enough occurrence. new player doing well was ripe with possibility. And when she delivered is when her popularity surged.
I don't think there is much debate ... she's the best player to come out of North America right now.