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This thread is not for discussion about which tournaments Scarlett is allowed to play in or not. Moderation regarding such in this thread will be less lenient from now on. -semioldguy (p.22) |
On April 25 2013 02:54 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 02:38 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On April 24 2013 17:37 gobbledydook wrote:On April 24 2013 17:00 Douillos wrote:On April 24 2013 16:05 Befree wrote:I feel bad doing this, I know I shouldn't play into this, I know I should stay on topic and this is probably against the rules, I know it's none of our business, but when I read some of these ignorant comments I feel an obligation to reply. First, her trans status is none of your business, has no effect on you, and shouldn't need to disclosed to you nor explained to you. Second, you have completely outdated ideas of sex and gender. You first off latch onto your false characteristics of what defines each sex, none of which actually do clearly define sex as science has come to discover. Then you act as if these false characteristics are also what define gender for you, even though likely 99.99% of your evaluations of someone's gender throughout your life were not based on attributes like testosterone/estrogen levels, chromosomes, genitalia, or reproductive systems. Third, and I believe this is most important here, you have no idea what being trans even is. You think it's someone who decides they want to be the other sex, and so they pretend and everyone plays along. That is NOT at all the case. In the womb, the fetal brain is pushed towards a male gender through the action of testosterone on nerve cells, or towards female by the absence of this testosterone. This is the process that develops our gender identity in our brain and it occurs during the second half of pregnancy. But it's during the first two months of pregnancy that the sexual differentiation of the genitals occurs. Both these processes can be influenced independently and in some extreme cases can result in trans-sexuality. The degree of the masculinization of the genitals does not necessarily reflect the masculinization of the brain. There's no indication that the social environment after birth affects gender identity (*). There are studies (**) that compare the female brain to a male-to-female trans woman's brain and they also show the same thing that the male-to-female trans brain is structurally similar to the genetically female brain. They are essentially a brain with a mismatched body. This incongruence can be very disruptive to a their life and make them feel horrible because they never feel right in their gender identity and their body. These extreme cases of gender dysphoria have been found to be treated best by sex reassignment therapy and hormone therapy. It is not meant to be cosmetic, elective, or optional in any meaningful way (***). After two years of hormone replacement therapy and sexual reassignment therapy, a male-to-female trans woman is essentially physically female. In 2003, the International Olympic Committee Medical Commission even recommended for sport that all male-to-female trans women be regarded as female for competition as there was no meaningful physical difference after sex reassignment and two years of HRT. For our particular case of Scarlett, she was born partially female, the more meaningful and important part, the brain. And now also has essentially a female body. It is NOT political correctness to call her female, it is not polite, it is not for the sake of making her feel good, it is simply the truth. She is female. You can be rude and hateful and refer to trans people by their gender they don't identify as, but you're only making a fool of yourself because you're wrong. And science has explained exactly why you are wrong. So instead of trying to push your ignorant, emotion-based, unscientific line of reasoning, how about you just shut the fuck up and take a moment to actually educate yourself on the matter before blurting out such stupidity. Here's what I cited: (*) Sexual Hormones and the Brain: An Essential Alliance for Sexual Identity and Sexual Orientation Garcia-Falgueras A, Swaab DF Endocr Dev. 2010;17:22-35 (**) Zhou et al Nature (1995) 378:68–70. and Male–to–female transsexuals have female neuron numbers in a limbic nucleus. Kruiver et al J Clin Endocrinol Metab (2000) 85:2034–2041 (***) http://www.wpath.org/documents2/socv6.pdf(****) http://www.olympic.org/Documents/Reports/EN/en_report_905.pdf----- I recognize it is bad to derail a thread with a comment like this, and maybe it's a warning or ban, but I just cannot stand reading these completely ignorant comments from people who think they know what they're talking about. There is so much ignorance on transgender people and so much transphobia everywhere that I feel it is necessary to respond to this ignorance with the truth. Because I really don't think the vast majority of people have any idea of the science or facts around it. I do apologize, though, to Scarlett, for continuing the conversation on her transgender status which I do not feel is any of our business. It would probably be more appropriate in a transgender topic than her injury announcement thread, but I only mean to help and educate others. ---- I'm sorry to hear about Scarlett's injury. I've been a big fan since I remember first seeing her play at that MLG. We'll just have to be rooting extra hard for her in the WCS now then. Hopefully her break falls on the shorter side of the 2-6 month estimation, that's a really long time  . Faith in TL'ers restored. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- All the best Scarlett your doing great in Korea, hope the injuries aren"t too bad and that your pause won't be too long! LYNCH HIM
but seriously, it should not be TL's business as to what Scarlett's sexual status is. Starcraft ability, game ethics and personality are all legitimate avenues of criticism of a player, but personal issues certainly aren't. The problem is that some people believe(legitimately) that she gained fame mainly by being a female player, and eventhough some players had better results than her in IPL4(went far in the open bracket, beating some koreans), they haven't been as recognized as Scarlett. So no, your argument is invald. And here I thought it was because she got 1st in Canada, 1st in US, beat MVP in proleague, was part of the nerchio/scarlett duo pre-MMA, etc...
What? You don't follow the scene, do you?
Everybody started following her because of her IPL4 run, eventhough some players had better results(foreign players in the open bracket)...Yeah she got 1st US, but Suppy went the furthest in WCS global finals(and nobody seem to remember him)... as for beating MVP, MVP is in code B...
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On April 25 2013 02:55 LurkersGonnaLurk wrote:Nobody cares what you think. 
You did apparently.
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On April 25 2013 02:54 Gr33d wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 02:47 TheDwf wrote:
How delicate of you to spend 15 precious seconds of your life to pour some hatred here. Sorry, I did not read the part in the first post where it says "only allowed to post here if you like Scarlett". I would equally like if (for example) Naniwa would stop playing. Thats not "hatred", thats just my opinion and I did not insult anyone.
Still your post was incredibly disrepectful considering the circumstances. If you were not aware about this, it is commonly known as politeness not to publicly rejoice about bad things happening to people regarding their health, even if you don't like them.
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I'm not sure what it is about Scarlett that invokes such hostility. She seems like a quiet, polite person, never heard about anyone getting BM'd by her, doesn't talk shit, she's not a cheesy player. I just don't get it-
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On April 25 2013 03:02 McBengt wrote:
I'm not sure what it is about Scarlett that invokes such hostility. She seems like a quiet, polite person, never heard about anyone getting BM'd by her, doesn't talk shit, she's not a cheesy player. I just don't get it-
Some people are just assholes. Not much anyone can do about it.
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Well this sucks. Scarlett is one of my favoirte players to watch. She has amazing macro and will be missed while she lets her wrist heal up. Hopefully she will come back as strong as ever!
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On April 23 2013 14:08 WigglingSquid wrote:
Awful, she was absolutely one of the best foreigners.
I must say, though, that the number of players who face career-wretching injuries should really, really be a signal to coaches and managers alike to wake up and take ergonomics and player health much more seriously.
Agreed- my back issues only went away when I started weight and cardio training, making my body fit enough to game for extended play sessions. Stretching only helped a little- it was only when I started working out that I was able to handle gaming that hard.
I would be interested to see if there has been a study into which exercises can help alleviate the wrist problems from RSI like this. I wonder if explosive/dynamic training like crossfit or plyometrics would be good for pro gamers.
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On April 25 2013 02:57 Rhaegar_tar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 02:54 Thieving Magpie wrote:On April 25 2013 02:38 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On April 24 2013 17:37 gobbledydook wrote:On April 24 2013 17:00 Douillos wrote:On April 24 2013 16:05 Befree wrote:I feel bad doing this, I know I shouldn't play into this, I know I should stay on topic and this is probably against the rules, I know it's none of our business, but when I read some of these ignorant comments I feel an obligation to reply. First, her trans status is none of your business, has no effect on you, and shouldn't need to disclosed to you nor explained to you. Second, you have completely outdated ideas of sex and gender. You first off latch onto your false characteristics of what defines each sex, none of which actually do clearly define sex as science has come to discover. Then you act as if these false characteristics are also what define gender for you, even though likely 99.99% of your evaluations of someone's gender throughout your life were not based on attributes like testosterone/estrogen levels, chromosomes, genitalia, or reproductive systems. Third, and I believe this is most important here, you have no idea what being trans even is. You think it's someone who decides they want to be the other sex, and so they pretend and everyone plays along. That is NOT at all the case. In the womb, the fetal brain is pushed towards a male gender through the action of testosterone on nerve cells, or towards female by the absence of this testosterone. This is the process that develops our gender identity in our brain and it occurs during the second half of pregnancy. But it's during the first two months of pregnancy that the sexual differentiation of the genitals occurs. Both these processes can be influenced independently and in some extreme cases can result in trans-sexuality. The degree of the masculinization of the genitals does not necessarily reflect the masculinization of the brain. There's no indication that the social environment after birth affects gender identity (*). There are studies (**) that compare the female brain to a male-to-female trans woman's brain and they also show the same thing that the male-to-female trans brain is structurally similar to the genetically female brain. They are essentially a brain with a mismatched body. This incongruence can be very disruptive to a their life and make them feel horrible because they never feel right in their gender identity and their body. These extreme cases of gender dysphoria have been found to be treated best by sex reassignment therapy and hormone therapy. It is not meant to be cosmetic, elective, or optional in any meaningful way (***). After two years of hormone replacement therapy and sexual reassignment therapy, a male-to-female trans woman is essentially physically female. In 2003, the International Olympic Committee Medical Commission even recommended for sport that all male-to-female trans women be regarded as female for competition as there was no meaningful physical difference after sex reassignment and two years of HRT. For our particular case of Scarlett, she was born partially female, the more meaningful and important part, the brain. And now also has essentially a female body. It is NOT political correctness to call her female, it is not polite, it is not for the sake of making her feel good, it is simply the truth. She is female. You can be rude and hateful and refer to trans people by their gender they don't identify as, but you're only making a fool of yourself because you're wrong. And science has explained exactly why you are wrong. So instead of trying to push your ignorant, emotion-based, unscientific line of reasoning, how about you just shut the fuck up and take a moment to actually educate yourself on the matter before blurting out such stupidity. Here's what I cited: (*) Sexual Hormones and the Brain: An Essential Alliance for Sexual Identity and Sexual Orientation Garcia-Falgueras A, Swaab DF Endocr Dev. 2010;17:22-35 (**) Zhou et al Nature (1995) 378:68–70. and Male–to–female transsexuals have female neuron numbers in a limbic nucleus. Kruiver et al J Clin Endocrinol Metab (2000) 85:2034–2041 (***) http://www.wpath.org/documents2/socv6.pdf(****) http://www.olympic.org/Documents/Reports/EN/en_report_905.pdf----- I recognize it is bad to derail a thread with a comment like this, and maybe it's a warning or ban, but I just cannot stand reading these completely ignorant comments from people who think they know what they're talking about. There is so much ignorance on transgender people and so much transphobia everywhere that I feel it is necessary to respond to this ignorance with the truth. Because I really don't think the vast majority of people have any idea of the science or facts around it. I do apologize, though, to Scarlett, for continuing the conversation on her transgender status which I do not feel is any of our business. It would probably be more appropriate in a transgender topic than her injury announcement thread, but I only mean to help and educate others. ---- I'm sorry to hear about Scarlett's injury. I've been a big fan since I remember first seeing her play at that MLG. We'll just have to be rooting extra hard for her in the WCS now then. Hopefully her break falls on the shorter side of the 2-6 month estimation, that's a really long time . Faith in TL'ers restored. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- All the best Scarlett your doing great in Korea, hope the injuries aren"t too bad and that your pause won't be too long! LYNCH HIM
but seriously, it should not be TL's business as to what Scarlett's sexual status is. Starcraft ability, game ethics and personality are all legitimate avenues of criticism of a player, but personal issues certainly aren't. The problem is that some people believe(legitimately) that she gained fame mainly by being a female player, and eventhough some players had better results than her in IPL4(went far in the open bracket, beating some koreans), they haven't been as recognized as Scarlett. So no, your argument is invald. And here I thought it was because she got 1st in Canada, 1st in US, beat MVP in proleague, was part of the nerchio/scarlett duo pre-MMA, etc... What? You don't follow the scene, do you? Everybody started following her because of her IPL4 run, eventhough some players had better results(foreign players in the open bracket)...Yeah she got 1st US, but Suppy went the furthest in WCS global finals(and nobody seem to remember him)... as for beating MVP, MVP is in code B...
IPL got her name on the map--but no one really talked *that* much about her until she won what should have been Huk's easy win trophy. And when she outdid both Idra and Vibe in the WCS North American finals it suddenly became clear that she was the best player in the North American scene and because of that I got fucking hyped for her as well as a lot of other people.
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On April 24 2013 14:19 ETisME wrote:
at the start when I first saw her was the woman league where she kinda dominated the whole tournament and I was feeling quite upset that she was a trans because imo, it has an unfair advantage over the other competitiors. Everyone was talking about how good she was, her creep spread etc but I thought that should be normal since she is at a different level, creep spread is just a bonus since she is facing less pressure etc.
I still am feeling a bit complicated about it. Not to mention it was the zerg donimating era, I thought she would eventually faded out in the scene.
but then I watched her play against some of the best players in the world and she really impressed me a lot. While she didn't get as much results as I expected, I really enjoyed her games and definitly one of the best foreigners out there right now.
I hope her rest will go smoothly and come back stronger and faster than before.
Is there something about different testosterone and estrogen levels that gives women a disadvantage? I'm confused by your logic on this. Sounds like everytime people said there was an unfair advantage, they couldn't even prove what that advantage was without being misogynistic.
On April 25 2013 03:02 McBengt wrote:
I'm not sure what it is about Scarlett that invokes such hostility. She seems like a quiet, polite person, never heard about anyone getting BM'd by her, doesn't talk shit, she's not a cheesy player. I just don't get it-
It's hard to understand ignorance unless you were once ignorant, and even then it's hard to understand it in retrospect. I was once a very ignorant person in regards to many social issues at a younger age, parroting my father's opinions, and now have changed quite a bit for the better. Looking back I can't explain away my ignorance very abruptly.
Sorry really not trying to derail, just sick and tired of this crap... Hope everything goes well for her.
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On April 25 2013 03:10 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 02:57 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On April 25 2013 02:54 Thieving Magpie wrote:On April 25 2013 02:38 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On April 24 2013 17:37 gobbledydook wrote:On April 24 2013 17:00 Douillos wrote:On April 24 2013 16:05 Befree wrote:I feel bad doing this, I know I shouldn't play into this, I know I should stay on topic and this is probably against the rules, I know it's none of our business, but when I read some of these ignorant comments I feel an obligation to reply. First, her trans status is none of your business, has no effect on you, and shouldn't need to disclosed to you nor explained to you. Second, you have completely outdated ideas of sex and gender. You first off latch onto your false characteristics of what defines each sex, none of which actually do clearly define sex as science has come to discover. Then you act as if these false characteristics are also what define gender for you, even though likely 99.99% of your evaluations of someone's gender throughout your life were not based on attributes like testosterone/estrogen levels, chromosomes, genitalia, or reproductive systems. Third, and I believe this is most important here, you have no idea what being trans even is. You think it's someone who decides they want to be the other sex, and so they pretend and everyone plays along. That is NOT at all the case. In the womb, the fetal brain is pushed towards a male gender through the action of testosterone on nerve cells, or towards female by the absence of this testosterone. This is the process that develops our gender identity in our brain and it occurs during the second half of pregnancy. But it's during the first two months of pregnancy that the sexual differentiation of the genitals occurs. Both these processes can be influenced independently and in some extreme cases can result in trans-sexuality. The degree of the masculinization of the genitals does not necessarily reflect the masculinization of the brain. There's no indication that the social environment after birth affects gender identity (*). There are studies (**) that compare the female brain to a male-to-female trans woman's brain and they also show the same thing that the male-to-female trans brain is structurally similar to the genetically female brain. They are essentially a brain with a mismatched body. This incongruence can be very disruptive to a their life and make them feel horrible because they never feel right in their gender identity and their body. These extreme cases of gender dysphoria have been found to be treated best by sex reassignment therapy and hormone therapy. It is not meant to be cosmetic, elective, or optional in any meaningful way (***). After two years of hormone replacement therapy and sexual reassignment therapy, a male-to-female trans woman is essentially physically female. In 2003, the International Olympic Committee Medical Commission even recommended for sport that all male-to-female trans women be regarded as female for competition as there was no meaningful physical difference after sex reassignment and two years of HRT. For our particular case of Scarlett, she was born partially female, the more meaningful and important part, the brain. And now also has essentially a female body. It is NOT political correctness to call her female, it is not polite, it is not for the sake of making her feel good, it is simply the truth. She is female. You can be rude and hateful and refer to trans people by their gender they don't identify as, but you're only making a fool of yourself because you're wrong. And science has explained exactly why you are wrong. So instead of trying to push your ignorant, emotion-based, unscientific line of reasoning, how about you just shut the fuck up and take a moment to actually educate yourself on the matter before blurting out such stupidity. Here's what I cited: (*) Sexual Hormones and the Brain: An Essential Alliance for Sexual Identity and Sexual Orientation Garcia-Falgueras A, Swaab DF Endocr Dev. 2010;17:22-35 (**) Zhou et al Nature (1995) 378:68–70. and Male–to–female transsexuals have female neuron numbers in a limbic nucleus. Kruiver et al J Clin Endocrinol Metab (2000) 85:2034–2041 (***) http://www.wpath.org/documents2/socv6.pdf(****) http://www.olympic.org/Documents/Reports/EN/en_report_905.pdf----- I recognize it is bad to derail a thread with a comment like this, and maybe it's a warning or ban, but I just cannot stand reading these completely ignorant comments from people who think they know what they're talking about. There is so much ignorance on transgender people and so much transphobia everywhere that I feel it is necessary to respond to this ignorance with the truth. Because I really don't think the vast majority of people have any idea of the science or facts around it. I do apologize, though, to Scarlett, for continuing the conversation on her transgender status which I do not feel is any of our business. It would probably be more appropriate in a transgender topic than her injury announcement thread, but I only mean to help and educate others. ---- I'm sorry to hear about Scarlett's injury. I've been a big fan since I remember first seeing her play at that MLG. We'll just have to be rooting extra hard for her in the WCS now then. Hopefully her break falls on the shorter side of the 2-6 month estimation, that's a really long time . Faith in TL'ers restored. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- All the best Scarlett your doing great in Korea, hope the injuries aren"t too bad and that your pause won't be too long! LYNCH HIM
but seriously, it should not be TL's business as to what Scarlett's sexual status is. Starcraft ability, game ethics and personality are all legitimate avenues of criticism of a player, but personal issues certainly aren't. The problem is that some people believe(legitimately) that she gained fame mainly by being a female player, and eventhough some players had better results than her in IPL4(went far in the open bracket, beating some koreans), they haven't been as recognized as Scarlett. So no, your argument is invald. And here I thought it was because she got 1st in Canada, 1st in US, beat MVP in proleague, was part of the nerchio/scarlett duo pre-MMA, etc... What? You don't follow the scene, do you? Everybody started following her because of her IPL4 run, eventhough some players had better results(foreign players in the open bracket)...Yeah she got 1st US, but Suppy went the furthest in WCS global finals(and nobody seem to remember him)... as for beating MVP, MVP is in code B... IPL got her name on the map--but no one really talked *that* much about her until she won what should have been Huk's easy win trophy. And when she outdid both Idra and Vibe in the WCS North American finals it suddenly became clear that she was the best player in the North American scene and because of that I got fucking hyped for her as well as a lot of other people.
You definitely weren't around...when she beat Terious and Demuslim people were fapping on her results and because she was a girl when Illusion did much better...this is why i kinda understand the hate and the talk about her sex. If she was a woman, she'd be exactly like Illusion, Vibe or Lucifron. It didn't help her case that she had many fans despite a patchzzery play when other europeans were hated for it.
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everyone shut the fuck up about the sexuality bullshit, just give her good luck, jesus christ how hard was that?
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On April 25 2013 03:47 Rhaegar_tar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 03:10 Thieving Magpie wrote:On April 25 2013 02:57 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On April 25 2013 02:54 Thieving Magpie wrote:On April 25 2013 02:38 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On April 24 2013 17:37 gobbledydook wrote:On April 24 2013 17:00 Douillos wrote:On April 24 2013 16:05 Befree wrote:I feel bad doing this, I know I shouldn't play into this, I know I should stay on topic and this is probably against the rules, I know it's none of our business, but when I read some of these ignorant comments I feel an obligation to reply. First, her trans status is none of your business, has no effect on you, and shouldn't need to disclosed to you nor explained to you. Second, you have completely outdated ideas of sex and gender. You first off latch onto your false characteristics of what defines each sex, none of which actually do clearly define sex as science has come to discover. Then you act as if these false characteristics are also what define gender for you, even though likely 99.99% of your evaluations of someone's gender throughout your life were not based on attributes like testosterone/estrogen levels, chromosomes, genitalia, or reproductive systems. Third, and I believe this is most important here, you have no idea what being trans even is. You think it's someone who decides they want to be the other sex, and so they pretend and everyone plays along. That is NOT at all the case. In the womb, the fetal brain is pushed towards a male gender through the action of testosterone on nerve cells, or towards female by the absence of this testosterone. This is the process that develops our gender identity in our brain and it occurs during the second half of pregnancy. But it's during the first two months of pregnancy that the sexual differentiation of the genitals occurs. Both these processes can be influenced independently and in some extreme cases can result in trans-sexuality. The degree of the masculinization of the genitals does not necessarily reflect the masculinization of the brain. There's no indication that the social environment after birth affects gender identity (*). There are studies (**) that compare the female brain to a male-to-female trans woman's brain and they also show the same thing that the male-to-female trans brain is structurally similar to the genetically female brain. They are essentially a brain with a mismatched body. This incongruence can be very disruptive to a their life and make them feel horrible because they never feel right in their gender identity and their body. These extreme cases of gender dysphoria have been found to be treated best by sex reassignment therapy and hormone therapy. It is not meant to be cosmetic, elective, or optional in any meaningful way (***). After two years of hormone replacement therapy and sexual reassignment therapy, a male-to-female trans woman is essentially physically female. In 2003, the International Olympic Committee Medical Commission even recommended for sport that all male-to-female trans women be regarded as female for competition as there was no meaningful physical difference after sex reassignment and two years of HRT. For our particular case of Scarlett, she was born partially female, the more meaningful and important part, the brain. And now also has essentially a female body. It is NOT political correctness to call her female, it is not polite, it is not for the sake of making her feel good, it is simply the truth. She is female. You can be rude and hateful and refer to trans people by their gender they don't identify as, but you're only making a fool of yourself because you're wrong. And science has explained exactly why you are wrong. So instead of trying to push your ignorant, emotion-based, unscientific line of reasoning, how about you just shut the fuck up and take a moment to actually educate yourself on the matter before blurting out such stupidity. Here's what I cited: (*) Sexual Hormones and the Brain: An Essential Alliance for Sexual Identity and Sexual Orientation Garcia-Falgueras A, Swaab DF Endocr Dev. 2010;17:22-35 (**) Zhou et al Nature (1995) 378:68–70. and Male–to–female transsexuals have female neuron numbers in a limbic nucleus. Kruiver et al J Clin Endocrinol Metab (2000) 85:2034–2041 (***) http://www.wpath.org/documents2/socv6.pdf(****) http://www.olympic.org/Documents/Reports/EN/en_report_905.pdf----- I recognize it is bad to derail a thread with a comment like this, and maybe it's a warning or ban, but I just cannot stand reading these completely ignorant comments from people who think they know what they're talking about. There is so much ignorance on transgender people and so much transphobia everywhere that I feel it is necessary to respond to this ignorance with the truth. Because I really don't think the vast majority of people have any idea of the science or facts around it. I do apologize, though, to Scarlett, for continuing the conversation on her transgender status which I do not feel is any of our business. It would probably be more appropriate in a transgender topic than her injury announcement thread, but I only mean to help and educate others. ---- I'm sorry to hear about Scarlett's injury. I've been a big fan since I remember first seeing her play at that MLG. We'll just have to be rooting extra hard for her in the WCS now then. Hopefully her break falls on the shorter side of the 2-6 month estimation, that's a really long time . Faith in TL'ers restored. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- All the best Scarlett your doing great in Korea, hope the injuries aren"t too bad and that your pause won't be too long! LYNCH HIM
but seriously, it should not be TL's business as to what Scarlett's sexual status is. Starcraft ability, game ethics and personality are all legitimate avenues of criticism of a player, but personal issues certainly aren't. The problem is that some people believe(legitimately) that she gained fame mainly by being a female player, and eventhough some players had better results than her in IPL4(went far in the open bracket, beating some koreans), they haven't been as recognized as Scarlett. So no, your argument is invald. And here I thought it was because she got 1st in Canada, 1st in US, beat MVP in proleague, was part of the nerchio/scarlett duo pre-MMA, etc... What? You don't follow the scene, do you? Everybody started following her because of her IPL4 run, eventhough some players had better results(foreign players in the open bracket)...Yeah she got 1st US, but Suppy went the furthest in WCS global finals(and nobody seem to remember him)... as for beating MVP, MVP is in code B... IPL got her name on the map--but no one really talked *that* much about her until she won what should have been Huk's easy win trophy. And when she outdid both Idra and Vibe in the WCS North American finals it suddenly became clear that she was the best player in the North American scene and because of that I got fucking hyped for her as well as a lot of other people. You definitely weren't around...when she beat Terious and Demuslim people were fapping on her results and because she was a girl when Illusion did much better...this is why i kinda understand the hate and the talk about her sex. If she was a woman, she'd be exactly like Illusion, Vibe or Lucifron. It didn't help her case that she had many fans despite a patchzzery play when other europeans were hated for it.
You're making it sound like it's somehow forbidden to argue that a player is overrated. It isn't, and Scarlett isn't the only one who obviously gets some extra attention for personality or other non skill-related reasons. But you can only make your case that she's overrated by discussing her gameplay and results, which is all Magpie asked you to do.
Also, fame and popularity aren't automatically synchronized with skill, not to mention the problem of defining "skill" objectively. People can love and celebrate whoever the hell they want. If you think they should distribute their love according to your criteria, maybe you should attack them, not her.
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Omg, just is a break, She is alive. We enjoin watching her back soon,
Cheer Scarlett
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On April 24 2013 16:05 Befree wrote:I feel bad doing this, I know I shouldn't play into this, I know I should stay on topic and this is probably against the rules, I know it's none of our business, but when I read some of these ignorant comments I feel an obligation to reply. First, her trans status is none of your business, has no effect on you, and shouldn't need to disclosed to you nor explained to you. Second, you have completely outdated ideas of sex and gender. You first off latch onto your false characteristics of what defines each sex, none of which actually do clearly define sex as science has come to discover. Then you act as if these false characteristics are also what define gender for you, even though likely 99.99% of your evaluations of someone's gender throughout your life were not based on attributes like testosterone/estrogen levels, chromosomes, genitalia, or reproductive systems. Third, and I believe this is most important here, you have no idea what being trans even is. You think it's someone who decides they want to be the other sex, and so they pretend and everyone plays along. That is NOT at all the case. In the womb, the fetal brain is pushed towards a male gender through the action of testosterone on nerve cells, or towards female by the absence of this testosterone. This is the process that develops our gender identity in our brain and it occurs during the second half of pregnancy. But it's during the first two months of pregnancy that the sexual differentiation of the genitals occurs. Both these processes can be influenced independently and in some extreme cases can result in trans-sexuality. The degree of the masculinization of the genitals does not necessarily reflect the masculinization of the brain. There's no indication that the social environment after birth affects gender identity (*). There are studies (**) that compare the female brain to a male-to-female trans woman's brain and they also show the same thing that the male-to-female trans brain is structurally similar to the genetically female brain. They are essentially a brain with a mismatched body. This incongruence can be very disruptive to a their life and make them feel horrible because they never feel right in their gender identity and their body. These extreme cases of gender dysphoria have been found to be treated best by sex reassignment therapy and hormone therapy. It is not meant to be cosmetic, elective, or optional in any meaningful way (***). After two years of hormone replacement therapy and sexual reassignment therapy, a male-to-female trans woman is essentially physically female. In 2003, the International Olympic Committee Medical Commission even recommended for sport that all male-to-female trans women be regarded as female for competition as there was no meaningful physical difference after sex reassignment and two years of HRT. For our particular case of Scarlett, she was born partially female, the more meaningful and important part, the brain. And now also has essentially a female body. It is NOT political correctness to call her female, it is not polite, it is not for the sake of making her feel good, it is simply the truth. She is female. You can be rude and hateful and refer to trans people by their gender they don't identify as, but you're only making a fool of yourself because you're wrong. And science has explained exactly why you are wrong. So instead of trying to push your ignorant, emotion-based, unscientific line of reasoning, how about you just shut the fuck up and take a moment to actually educate yourself on the matter before blurting out such stupidity. Here's what I cited: (*) Sexual Hormones and the Brain: An Essential Alliance for Sexual Identity and Sexual Orientation Garcia-Falgueras A, Swaab DF Endocr Dev. 2010;17:22-35 (**) Zhou et al Nature (1995) 378:68–70. and Male–to–female transsexuals have female neuron numbers in a limbic nucleus. Kruiver et al J Clin Endocrinol Metab (2000) 85:2034–2041 (***) http://www.wpath.org/documents2/socv6.pdf(****) http://www.olympic.org/Documents/Reports/EN/en_report_905.pdf----- I recognize it is bad to derail a thread with a comment like this, and maybe it's a warning or ban, but I just cannot stand reading these completely ignorant comments from people who think they know what they're talking about. There is so much ignorance on transgender people and so much transphobia everywhere that I feel it is necessary to respond to this ignorance with the truth. Because I really don't think the vast majority of people have any idea of the science or facts around it. I do apologize, though, to Scarlett, for continuing the conversation on her transgender status which I do not feel is any of our business. It would probably be more appropriate in a transgender topic than her injury announcement thread, but I only mean to help and educate others. ---- I'm sorry to hear about Scarlett's injury. I've been a big fan since I remember first seeing her play at that MLG. We'll just have to be rooting extra hard for her in the WCS now then. Hopefully her break falls on the shorter side of the 2-6 month estimation, that's a really long time .
This needs to be a modnote on every thread about Trans ever. Please.
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On April 25 2013 03:47 Rhaegar_tar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 03:10 Thieving Magpie wrote:On April 25 2013 02:57 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On April 25 2013 02:54 Thieving Magpie wrote:On April 25 2013 02:38 Rhaegar_tar wrote:On April 24 2013 17:37 gobbledydook wrote:On April 24 2013 17:00 Douillos wrote:On April 24 2013 16:05 Befree wrote:I feel bad doing this, I know I shouldn't play into this, I know I should stay on topic and this is probably against the rules, I know it's none of our business, but when I read some of these ignorant comments I feel an obligation to reply. First, her trans status is none of your business, has no effect on you, and shouldn't need to disclosed to you nor explained to you. Second, you have completely outdated ideas of sex and gender. You first off latch onto your false characteristics of what defines each sex, none of which actually do clearly define sex as science has come to discover. Then you act as if these false characteristics are also what define gender for you, even though likely 99.99% of your evaluations of someone's gender throughout your life were not based on attributes like testosterone/estrogen levels, chromosomes, genitalia, or reproductive systems. Third, and I believe this is most important here, you have no idea what being trans even is. You think it's someone who decides they want to be the other sex, and so they pretend and everyone plays along. That is NOT at all the case. In the womb, the fetal brain is pushed towards a male gender through the action of testosterone on nerve cells, or towards female by the absence of this testosterone. This is the process that develops our gender identity in our brain and it occurs during the second half of pregnancy. But it's during the first two months of pregnancy that the sexual differentiation of the genitals occurs. Both these processes can be influenced independently and in some extreme cases can result in trans-sexuality. The degree of the masculinization of the genitals does not necessarily reflect the masculinization of the brain. There's no indication that the social environment after birth affects gender identity (*). There are studies (**) that compare the female brain to a male-to-female trans woman's brain and they also show the same thing that the male-to-female trans brain is structurally similar to the genetically female brain. They are essentially a brain with a mismatched body. This incongruence can be very disruptive to a their life and make them feel horrible because they never feel right in their gender identity and their body. These extreme cases of gender dysphoria have been found to be treated best by sex reassignment therapy and hormone therapy. It is not meant to be cosmetic, elective, or optional in any meaningful way (***). After two years of hormone replacement therapy and sexual reassignment therapy, a male-to-female trans woman is essentially physically female. In 2003, the International Olympic Committee Medical Commission even recommended for sport that all male-to-female trans women be regarded as female for competition as there was no meaningful physical difference after sex reassignment and two years of HRT. For our particular case of Scarlett, she was born partially female, the more meaningful and important part, the brain. And now also has essentially a female body. It is NOT political correctness to call her female, it is not polite, it is not for the sake of making her feel good, it is simply the truth. She is female. You can be rude and hateful and refer to trans people by their gender they don't identify as, but you're only making a fool of yourself because you're wrong. And science has explained exactly why you are wrong. So instead of trying to push your ignorant, emotion-based, unscientific line of reasoning, how about you just shut the fuck up and take a moment to actually educate yourself on the matter before blurting out such stupidity. Here's what I cited: (*) Sexual Hormones and the Brain: An Essential Alliance for Sexual Identity and Sexual Orientation Garcia-Falgueras A, Swaab DF Endocr Dev. 2010;17:22-35 (**) Zhou et al Nature (1995) 378:68–70. and Male–to–female transsexuals have female neuron numbers in a limbic nucleus. Kruiver et al J Clin Endocrinol Metab (2000) 85:2034–2041 (***) http://www.wpath.org/documents2/socv6.pdf(****) http://www.olympic.org/Documents/Reports/EN/en_report_905.pdf----- I recognize it is bad to derail a thread with a comment like this, and maybe it's a warning or ban, but I just cannot stand reading these completely ignorant comments from people who think they know what they're talking about. There is so much ignorance on transgender people and so much transphobia everywhere that I feel it is necessary to respond to this ignorance with the truth. Because I really don't think the vast majority of people have any idea of the science or facts around it. I do apologize, though, to Scarlett, for continuing the conversation on her transgender status which I do not feel is any of our business. It would probably be more appropriate in a transgender topic than her injury announcement thread, but I only mean to help and educate others. ---- I'm sorry to hear about Scarlett's injury. I've been a big fan since I remember first seeing her play at that MLG. We'll just have to be rooting extra hard for her in the WCS now then. Hopefully her break falls on the shorter side of the 2-6 month estimation, that's a really long time . Faith in TL'ers restored. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- All the best Scarlett your doing great in Korea, hope the injuries aren"t too bad and that your pause won't be too long! LYNCH HIM
but seriously, it should not be TL's business as to what Scarlett's sexual status is. Starcraft ability, game ethics and personality are all legitimate avenues of criticism of a player, but personal issues certainly aren't. The problem is that some people believe(legitimately) that she gained fame mainly by being a female player, and eventhough some players had better results than her in IPL4(went far in the open bracket, beating some koreans), they haven't been as recognized as Scarlett. So no, your argument is invald. And here I thought it was because she got 1st in Canada, 1st in US, beat MVP in proleague, was part of the nerchio/scarlett duo pre-MMA, etc... What? You don't follow the scene, do you? Everybody started following her because of her IPL4 run, eventhough some players had better results(foreign players in the open bracket)...Yeah she got 1st US, but Suppy went the furthest in WCS global finals(and nobody seem to remember him)... as for beating MVP, MVP is in code B... IPL got her name on the map--but no one really talked *that* much about her until she won what should have been Huk's easy win trophy. And when she outdid both Idra and Vibe in the WCS North American finals it suddenly became clear that she was the best player in the North American scene and because of that I got fucking hyped for her as well as a lot of other people. You definitely weren't around...when she beat Terious and Demuslim people were fapping on her results and because she was a girl when Illusion did much better...this is why i kinda understand the hate and the talk about her sex. If she was a woman, she'd be exactly like Illusion, Vibe or Lucifron. It didn't help her case that she had many fans despite a patchzzery play when other europeans were hated for it.
An unknown player (people knew about illusion) got put on the big screen and did well. She then proceeded to do really well. She then proceeded to win WCS Canada, WCS North America and was a heavy hitter with Nerchio in team Acer. She spread creep like a Korean and was aggressive and moved around the map.
illusion almost doing well and then falling short was a regular enough occurrence. new player doing well was ripe with possibility. And when she delivered is when her popularity surged.
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She did get overly praised and received extremely high and undeserved attention mostly because of her gender at first (her surge in popularity definetely happened before she won anything of note) , but Scarlett proved herself to be deserving of much of it in the following months, so it's all good in my eyes.
I hope she gets better, I have been recovering from chronic tendonitis myself, it can get tough if you do not pay proper care, though it's certainly more manageable than CTS.
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"Seems she will be trying to.." I think you really mean "Seems HE will be trying to..."
AcerScarlett HE is a great Starcraft 2 player.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On April 24 2013 10:06 ES_JohnClark wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2013 14:04 pieisamazing wrote:
That's a shame. Hope he recovers quickly!
User was warned for this post Okay.. I need to address this. Probably not the best thread to do so and I understand if its moved or warned... but seriously? A user will get a warning for this? Technically, she is a he right? I really respect Scarlett and have never had an issue with the choice to 'make the change'.... but let's not go overboard with the P.C. here. It set's us up for a slippery slope. Anyway.. really sucks that she will need to take this break.. its poor timing too...as we need more NA players that are playing at the very top levels. Get well soon Scarlett and come back to kick some Korean ass! (speaking of not being P.C.  ) end. User was warned for this post
mods don't want people discussing sex on scarlet's thread, its been stated somewhere, but its still fun to see people trying to troll the mods by getting their 1 smurf accounts banned. I bet when someone opens a scarlet thread the mods must ctrl + F the words "he" and "his" and just start banning people.
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On April 25 2013 05:03 IshinShishi wrote:
She did get overly praised and received extremely high and undeserved attention mostly because of her gender at first (her surge in popularity definetely happened before she won anything of note) , but Scarlett proved herself to be deserving of much of it in the following months, so it's all good in my eyes.
I hope she gets better, I have been recovering from chronic tendonitis myself, it can get tough if you do not pay proper care, though it's certainly more manageable than CTS.
I agree with you, her IPL run did get her a bit too much fame. We Canucks wanted someone to take over that void that Huk left! But winning WCS NA & Canada only losing a combined 3 maps cemented my and evidently your view that she's a boss.
Either way, speedy recovery Sasha!
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United States23455 Posts
I'm not the biggest fan of Scarlett (nothing to do with her being transgender, as I can kind of see where this thread has been going) but I do hope she has a speedy recovery. She is (indisputably) one of the best foreigners. I believe she won WCS Canada without dropping a map? and won WCS NA only losing one map to TheOgnis.
One thing I am wondering though, she is planning on finishing her participation in WCS NA according to the OP. If she does well (which is fairly likely) she could still be playing for a month or more. Hopefully her wrists can stand up to the practice she will need for that, or perhaps she assumes because of her bad wrist condition that she will get eliminated early.
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EPT
