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This thread is not for discussion about which tournaments Scarlett is allowed to play in or not. Moderation regarding such in this thread will be less lenient from now on. -semioldguy (p.22) |
On April 24 2013 11:50 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote + Okay.. I need to address this. Probably not the best thread to do so and I understand if its moved or warned...
but seriously? A user will get a warning for this? Well 9.5 times out of 10, it's an asshole trying to make a jab and dodge punishment, an incredibly often recurring theme Who the hell calls "scarlett" a he, lacking knowledge of the situation, anyway?
Sexual orientation / preference / w/e shouldn't be an issue to anyone but the people involving it. As far as I (and I think the majority) are concerned. Scarlett is a great player and seems like a really nice person. what she is or isn't shouldn't even be a topic. Hope you get better scarlett! Big fan of your play here and I play terran!
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On April 24 2013 10:06 ES_JohnClark wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2013 14:04 pieisamazing wrote:
That's a shame. Hope he recovers quickly!
User was warned for this post Okay.. I need to address this. Probably not the best thread to do so and I understand if its moved or warned... but seriously? A user will get a warning for this? Technically, she is a he right? I really respect Scarlett and have never had an issue with the choice to 'make the change'.... but let's not go overboard with the P.C. here. It set's us up for a slippery slope. Anyway.. really sucks that she will need to take this break.. its poor timing too...as we need more NA players that are playing at the very top levels. Get well soon Scarlett and come back to kick some Korean ass! (speaking of not being P.C.  ) end.
While I agree with you from a technical and logical standpoint, you have to take such perspectives with a grain of salt when you post on these boards, particularly when such logic revolves around an individual considered to be a celebrity by everyone involved (well, excluding the many trolls in this thread), and the fact that the rules amount to 'this is our house, if we don't like you, you go."
Also, considering the even simpler fact that every single poster in this thread that got moderated was trolling, pure and simple.
Best wishes to Scarlett, I am sure she will be back in full force soon enough!
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On April 24 2013 10:06 ES_JohnClark wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2013 14:04 pieisamazing wrote:
That's a shame. Hope he recovers quickly!
User was warned for this post Okay.. I need to address this. Probably not the best thread to do so and I understand if its moved or warned... but seriously? A user will get a warning for this? Technically, she is a he right? I really respect Scarlett and have never had an issue with the choice to 'make the change'.... but let's not go overboard with the P.C. here. It set's us up for a slippery slope.
No, you obviously don't respect Scarlett. There is no slippery slope, and we aren't going overboard with the P.C.
This is about respecting another human being. She wants to be called she, because it is who she is. Refusing to do so is disrespectful. Getting "technical" is disrespectful.
I don't see how this is so hard to understand.
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Really sad to hear this. From my experience watching her compete during the various events she's attended, most recently GSTL, I feel as though that even despite being shy at times she is a great personality for our scene and I always enjoyed rooting for her.
Of course it's a shame and I'd rather this wasn't the case, but of course your health always takes precedent and hopefully she'll come back stronger and better than ever. How cool would it be if she came back in a few months and started dominating again, but even more-so this time. I think its entirely possible and I look forward to it.
I wish you the best Scarlett, thanks for all the great games and thankyou for never backing down and pushing forward despite all the adversity and ignorance you face on a daily basis. You're an inspiration to not just people in your specific situation, but to all of us who face adversity in our lives.
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On April 24 2013 13:33 Maxyim wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 10:06 ES_JohnClark wrote:On April 23 2013 14:04 pieisamazing wrote:
That's a shame. Hope he recovers quickly!
User was warned for this post Okay.. I need to address this. Probably not the best thread to do so and I understand if its moved or warned... but seriously? A user will get a warning for this? Technically, she is a he right? I really respect Scarlett and have never had an issue with the choice to 'make the change'.... but let's not go overboard with the P.C. here. It set's us up for a slippery slope. Anyway.. really sucks that she will need to take this break.. its poor timing too...as we need more NA players that are playing at the very top levels. Get well soon Scarlett and come back to kick some Korean ass! (speaking of not being P.C. ) end. While I agree with you from a technical and logical standpoint, you have to take such perspectives with a grain of salt when you post on these boards, particularly when such logic revolves around an individual considered to be a celebrity by everyone involved (well, excluding the many trolls in this thread), and the fact that the rules amount to 'this is our house, if we don't like you, you go." Also, considering the even simpler fact that every single poster in this thread that got moderated was trolling, pure and simple. Best wishes to Scarlett, I am sure she will be back in full force soon enough!
It is common courtesy to address others as they wish to be addressed within reason; to even question this right reeks of self-important bullshit. Your knowledge of what constitutes a "technical and logical" approach to social language and the propriety of identity critique in the public space is laughably childish. Objectively, basic human regard trumps whatever half-hearted appeal to "science" you may think you are speaking to. Grow up.
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Sorry if this has already been discussed but is it carpal or does anyone know?
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Good luck getting better Scarlett!
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On April 24 2013 13:43 farvacola wrote:
Objectively, basic human regard trumps whatever half-hearted appeal to "science" you may think you are speaking to. Grow up.
You're invoking science to objectify human interaction while at the same time dissing science for objectifying humans. Classy.
(the word you are looking for might be "inter-subjectively", but certainly not "objectively")
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On April 24 2013 14:00 cost2010 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 13:43 farvacola wrote:
Objectively, basic human regard trumps whatever half-hearted appeal to "science" you may think you are speaking to. Grow up. You're invoking science to objectify human interaction while at the same time dissing science for objectifying humans. Classy. (the word you are looking for might be "inter-subjectively", but certainly not "objectively", otherwise you are implying that interaction between humans is something that can be examined like an object which seems at least partially to run counter to your point)
It doesn't run counter to my point at all; on a basic and objective level, human society has developed a standard with which we address one another in common space in pursuit of a productive social experience, and this standard supersedes whatever meaningless nod towards science or whatever "technical and logical" thing one might think important as they use it to effectively call someone a name. It is logical to allow each and every person a degree of agency in the determination of their title, and it is vulgar and rude to act otherwise.
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at the start when I first saw her was the woman league where she kinda dominated the whole tournament and I was feeling quite upset that she was a trans because imo, it has an unfair advantage over the other competitiors. Everyone was talking about how good she was, her creep spread etc but I thought that should be normal since she is at a different level, creep spread is just a bonus since she is facing less pressure etc.
I still am feeling a bit complicated about it. Not to mention it was the zerg donimating era, I thought she would eventually faded out in the scene.
but then I watched her play against some of the best players in the world and she really impressed me a lot. While she didn't get as much results as I expected, I really enjoyed her games and definitly one of the best foreigners out there right now.
I hope her rest will go smoothly and come back stronger and faster than before.
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Lol at people trying to justify insensitive douchery with thinly-veiled appeals to "logic".
GL Scarlett, one of the best foreigners, hope to see her back as soon as possible.
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On April 23 2013 18:54 Liquid`TLO wrote:Not surprised, bad posture while playing. Possibly not enough exercise and stretching Pro-gamers need to take better care, it's always self inflicted TT We'll have dozens of retirements in the next 1-2 years if people don't change their lifestyle. So many people have problems who never say it publicly too 
What kinds of stretches/excercise? I'm willing to bet a lot of this is genetic based.
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On April 23 2013 21:26 will216 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2013 14:18 Terranist wrote:On April 23 2013 14:08 skyflyfish wrote:
heart of swarm comes, the queen falls it really is questionable why now that infestors are fixed the patch zergs are quickly going away. first stephano announcing he is going to quit soon and now scarlett with wrist problems out of nowhere. i wish her a speedy recovery but i honestly don't think it matters really. User was temp banned for this post. So, You get a temp ban for talking about balance issues and patch zergs but you get warnings for using transphobic words. Mods are stupid .... I will take my ban now... User was temp banned for this post.
ban me too, I don't know why i want to but it seems to be the current fad.
User was temp banned for this post.
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opterown
Australia54785 Posts
On April 24 2013 15:23 TRaFFiC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2013 18:54 Liquid`TLO wrote:Not surprised, bad posture while playing. Possibly not enough exercise and stretching Pro-gamers need to take better care, it's always self inflicted TT We'll have dozens of retirements in the next 1-2 years if people don't change their lifestyle. So many people have problems who never say it publicly too What kinds of stretches/excercise? I'm willing to bet a lot of this is genetic based.
why would it be genetic o.O
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On April 24 2013 14:19 ETisME wrote:
at the start when I first saw her was the woman league where she kinda dominated the whole tournament and I was feeling quite upset that she was a trans because imo, it has an unfair advantage over the other competitiors. Everyone was talking
Do you actually think men have some innate advantage over women in SC2?
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On April 24 2013 15:39 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 14:19 ETisME wrote:
at the start when I first saw her was the woman league where she kinda dominated the whole tournament and I was feeling quite upset that she was a trans because imo, it has an unfair advantage over the other competitiors. Everyone was talking Do you actually think men have some innate advantage over women in SC2?
why would you want to noob bash anyway? Oh yeah, free money. Imo, more men practice sc2, so more men will be good at it.
On April 24 2013 15:37 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 15:23 TRaFFiC wrote:On April 23 2013 18:54 Liquid`TLO wrote:Not surprised, bad posture while playing. Possibly not enough exercise and stretching Pro-gamers need to take better care, it's always self inflicted TT We'll have dozens of retirements in the next 1-2 years if people don't change their lifestyle. So many people have problems who never say it publicly too What kinds of stretches/excercise? I'm willing to bet a lot of this is genetic based. why would it be genetic o.O
stronger ligaments/muscle.
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On April 24 2013 15:39 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 14:19 ETisME wrote:
at the start when I first saw her was the woman league where she kinda dominated the whole tournament and I was feeling quite upset that she was a trans because imo, it has an unfair advantage over the other competitiors. Everyone was talking Do you actually think men have some innate advantage over women in SC2?
well they do
I really liked her play, hopefully she recovers sooner than expected. Wrist problems can generally play few games before hurting right, or it 100% quit?
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On April 24 2013 15:37 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2013 15:23 TRaFFiC wrote:On April 23 2013 18:54 Liquid`TLO wrote:Not surprised, bad posture while playing. Possibly not enough exercise and stretching Pro-gamers need to take better care, it's always self inflicted TT We'll have dozens of retirements in the next 1-2 years if people don't change their lifestyle. So many people have problems who never say it publicly too What kinds of stretches/excercise? I'm willing to bet a lot of this is genetic based. why would it be genetic o.O
the thickness of your tendons and ligaments and other connective tissue is partially due to genetics.
the thicker the structure the more force it can withstand before a micro-fracture occurs.
the cause of any soft tissue injury ...
it could be genetic or
it could be improper use of the body part....
or it could be some combination of both.
saying 'its just genetics" is an oversimplification though.
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I feel bad doing this, I know I shouldn't play into this, I know I should stay on topic and this is probably against the rules, I know it's none of our business, but when I read some of these ignorant comments I feel an obligation to reply.
First, her trans status is none of your business, has no effect on you, and shouldn't need to disclosed to you nor explained to you.
Second, you have completely outdated ideas of sex and gender. You first off latch onto your false characteristics of what defines each sex, none of which actually do clearly define sex as science has come to discover. Then you act as if these false characteristics are also what define gender for you, even though likely 99.99% of your evaluations of someone's gender throughout your life were not based on attributes like testosterone/estrogen levels, chromosomes, genitalia, or reproductive systems.
Third, and I believe this is most important here, you have no idea what being trans even is. You think it's someone who decides they want to be the other sex, and so they pretend and everyone plays along. That is NOT at all the case.
In the womb, the fetal brain is pushed towards a male gender through the action of testosterone on nerve cells, or towards female by the absence of this testosterone. This is the process that develops our gender identity in our brain and it occurs during the second half of pregnancy. But it's during the first two months of pregnancy that the sexual differentiation of the genitals occurs. Both these processes can be influenced independently and in some extreme cases can result in trans-sexuality. The degree of the masculinization of the genitals does not necessarily reflect the masculinization of the brain. There's no indication that the social environment after birth affects gender identity (*). There are studies (**) that compare the female brain to a male-to-female trans woman's brain and they also show the same thing that the male-to-female trans brain is structurally similar to the genetically female brain.
They are essentially a brain with a mismatched body. This incongruence can be very disruptive to a their life and make them feel horrible because they never feel right in their gender identity and their body. These extreme cases of gender dysphoria have been found to be treated best by sex reassignment therapy and hormone therapy. It is not meant to be cosmetic, elective, or optional in any meaningful way (***).
After two years of hormone replacement therapy and sexual reassignment therapy, a male-to-female trans woman is essentially physically female. In 2003, the International Olympic Committee Medical Commission even recommended for sport that all male-to-female trans women be regarded as female for competition as there was no meaningful physical difference after sex reassignment and two years of HRT.
For our particular case of Scarlett, she was born partially female, the more meaningful and important part, the brain. And now also has essentially a female body. It is NOT political correctness to call her female, it is not polite, it is not for the sake of making her feel good, it is simply the truth. She is female. You can be rude and hateful and refer to trans people by their gender they don't identify as, but you're only making a fool of yourself because you're wrong. And science has explained exactly why you are wrong. So instead of trying to push your ignorant, emotion-based, unscientific line of reasoning, how about you just shut the fuck up and take a moment to actually educate yourself on the matter before blurting out such stupidity.
Here's what I cited:
(*) Sexual Hormones and the Brain: An Essential Alliance for Sexual Identity and Sexual Orientation Garcia-Falgueras A, Swaab DF Endocr Dev. 2010;17:22-35
(**) Zhou et al Nature (1995) 378:68–70.
and
Male–to–female transsexuals have female neuron numbers in a limbic nucleus. Kruiver et al J Clin Endocrinol Metab (2000) 85:2034–2041
(***) http://www.wpath.org/documents2/socv6.pdf
(****) http://www.olympic.org/Documents/Reports/EN/en_report_905.pdf
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I recognize it is bad to derail a thread with a comment like this, and maybe it's a warning or ban, but I just cannot stand reading these completely ignorant comments from people who think they know what they're talking about. There is so much ignorance on transgender people and so much transphobia everywhere that I feel it is necessary to respond to this ignorance with the truth. Because I really don't think the vast majority of people have any idea of the science or facts around it. I do apologize, though, to Scarlett, for continuing the conversation on her transgender status which I do not feel is any of our business. It would probably be more appropriate in a transgender topic than her injury announcement thread, but I only mean to help and educate others.
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I'm sorry to hear about Scarlett's injury. I've been a big fan since I remember first seeing her play at that MLG. We'll just have to be rooting extra hard for her in the WCS now then. Hopefully her break falls on the shorter side of the 2-6 month estimation, that's a really long time .
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EPT
