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Kazang
578 Posts
On February 19 2012 12:18 NasKe_ wrote: Jesus Just watch GSL and see how a pro observer do things. Bar off when nothing is happening, when in engage, select the units to see the heathbars. Absolutely. Seeing a clusterfuck of health bars on screen all the time is ugly and unintuitive. | ||
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0neder
United States3733 Posts
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0neder
United States3733 Posts
On February 19 2012 13:58 Kazang wrote: Absolutely. Seeing a clusterfuck of health bars on screen all the time is ugly and unintuitive. This. Thank you for being sensible! | ||
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timed
Canada40 Posts
On February 19 2012 13:59 0neder wrote: I am so disappointed in the community for wanting health bars. It seems people are forgetting/unaware of what made BW great. Hint: it wasn't audience omniscience. I want to see the fight, not stats. Thanks. Seems most of them don't watch the GSL. Then there's also the "I am HARDCORE, healthbars off is for CASUALS" superiority complex going on. | ||
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L3gendary
Canada1470 Posts
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rasnj
United States1959 Posts
Health bars adds crucial information that actually makes battles much easier to understand. Energy may be a little hard to understand from the bar if you do not have a good grasp of how much of the bar represents one force field/storm/fungal/emp/etc. And in large zerglings battles it may slightly clutter the screen, but even when I was very casual I don't remember having any problem with this and have never felt health bars was a problem. It should definitely be ON. With a talented observer selected may be an option, but besides in the GSL I'm not sure I have really seen anyone pull it off decently. Even in the GSL I fairly often want to know the health (/energy) of certain units which are not selected. If we wish to keep selected as the default option people really need to put much more emphasis on observing skills. Even whens pros observe they do not know how to select the right units to pass along crucial information as they never practice observing, and I don't get the impression that many commentators put a whole lot of emphasis on improving their observing skills. Anyone who has watched a decent amount of proleague knows how much of an art form observing is and how much it can add to a cast (you watch a Korean cast and do not feel like you are missing anything significant). Good observing is just as important as good commentating, and if you keep health bars selected good observing is a must. | ||
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Blackhawk13
United States442 Posts
On February 19 2012 12:18 NasKe_ wrote: Jesus Just watch GSL and see how a pro observer do things. Bar off when nothing is happening, when in engage, select the units to see the heathbars. Yep, this is how I prefer it. | ||
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Greenei
Germany1754 Posts
On February 19 2012 10:19 Diamond wrote: A LARGE LARGE LARGE part of any viewing audience and almost always the majority is the casual fan. The casual fan can not read the info given by that many health bars. Only higher level players or hardcore viewers will be able to pull info off of it. Also mainly with Zerg you end up seeing a swarm of health bars, not units, which looks silly. Edit: Just to clarify however, selected is the best. There is times where they should be flicked on, and a good observer will know what to select or in a pinch just just hit alt. What? This concept of "casual viewer" is pretty much bullshit if you ask me. The average viewer is probably the midrange platinumplayer and someone like that should really be able to tell, that red = bad, green = good. I don't even see the point, why hide information? | ||
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MelodyBW
Ukraine154 Posts
On February 19 2012 14:02 L3gendary wrote: Healthbars always on should've never made it into the release of the game. It's terrible for an esport both aesthetically and skill wise. Healthbars are killing eSports | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On February 19 2012 14:11 Greenei wrote: What? This concept of "casual viewer" is pretty much bullshit if you ask me. The average viewer is probably the midrange platinumplayer and someone like that should really be able to tell, that red = bad, green = good. I don't even see the point, why hide information? 61.5% of the global sc2 population is in a league below plat. Also the casual viewer theory has years and years of backing in every sport on the planet so sorry you coming in and going "I DONT BELIEVE IT" does not actually change that fact. It's not hiding information, it's preventing an overload of information as well as keeping a sense of immersion. On top of all that, it the game simply looks better without a bunch of green bars running all over the place. | ||
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
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Sovano
United States1503 Posts
On February 19 2012 14:02 rasnj wrote: A lot of people seem to suggest that off is better for casuals, but why? They are not so casual that they don't understand that units have health and are unable to read a health bar. In addition it adds tons of excitement. Seeing low health colossus, prisms, medivacs, etc. trying to micro back, seeing how close a storm is to killing a group of marines, seeing ultras health diminish as mmm kite them, etc. is all very exciting and easily understandable. Health bars adds crucial information that actually makes battles much easier to understand. Energy may be a little hard to understand from the bar if you do not have a good grasp of how much of the bar represents one force field/storm/fungal/emp/etc. And in large zerglings battles it may slightly clutter the screen, but even when I was very casual I don't remember having any problem with this and have never felt health bars was a problem. It should definitely be ON. With a talented observer selected may be an option, but besides in the GSL I'm not sure I have really seen anyone pull it off decently. Even in the GSL I fairly often want to know the health (/energy) of certain units which are not selected. If we wish to keep selected as the default option people really need to put much more emphasis on observing skills. Even whens pros observe they do not know how to select the right units to pass along crucial information as they never practice observing, and I don't get the impression that many commentators put a whole lot of emphasis on improving their observing skills. Anyone who has watched a decent amount of proleague knows how much of an art form observing is and how much it can add to a cast (you watch a Korean cast and do not feel like you are missing anything significant). Good observing is just as important as good commentating, and if you keep health bars selected good observing is a must. ^This. On February 19 2012 14:11 Greenei wrote: What? This concept of "casual viewer" is pretty much bullshit if you ask me. The average viewer is probably the midrange platinumplayer and someone like that should really be able to tell, that red = bad, green = good. I don't even see the point, why hide information? What defines a casual viewer is generally different from person to person. Though my definition of a "casual" or "average" viewer is anyone that plays Starcraft. I was a low Gold league player when I started watching streams. Now I'm high platinum, and watch them more than ever. When I was gold, I didn't understand much of what was going on unless the game was casted itself. Over time I learned more and now am able to understand most of what is going on. Though the more strategical and analytic parts are still beyond me to a certain extent. The health bars really are crucial in this game, whether your playing yourself or your watching someone else play. Honestly, it doesn't bother me at all. Sometimes I don't even notice they are there until a battle commences, and then I pay attention to crucial moments like when a high templar tries to use storm on a Terran bioball or when infestors use fungal growth. I think most can agree they would like to see the health bars at this point, just to be able to see how much damage was inflicted, if any at all. | ||
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Reason.SC2
Canada1047 Posts
Having said that, selecting the units or using alt to turn on health bars during key moments is very important so that people have an idea of what is going on - it can allow even the casual observer to appreciate blink micro, target firing, the effect of spells such as fungal and storm on clumps of units, etc. | ||
Grezzz
United Kingdom78 Posts
However, I do understand the feeling of a casual player seeing 100 healthbars running at eachother thinking it looks ridiculous. When there's a huge 200/200 army battle you don't need to see the health of every unit, so selected can work out as long as the observer is capable. I think it's all down to the skill of the observer. Selected can be ok, but I've watched a bunch of games where there are small micro battles going on and not being able to see healthbars is very frustrating. | ||
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Armada Vega
Canada120 Posts
Therefore in certain situations you can find a lot of info or provide info to viewers simply by holding 'Atl' for a few seconds. Learning to do this multiple times during a game or after key engagements between large or small armies, most complaints about health bars can be taken care of. What casters currently do that isn't very effective, even for casters, is the casters select an individual unit or building to see health bars or unit production bars. | ||
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halvorg
Norway717 Posts
HP bars, energy bars, building progress, training progress, upgrade progress are all VITAL to understand the current game state, which in a game of starcraft at the highest level is everything. For what it's worth I voted in the poll, but I doubt anything will change. | ||
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Belha
Italy2850 Posts
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Greenei
Germany1754 Posts
On February 19 2012 14:17 Diamond wrote: 61.5% of the global sc2 population is in a league below plat. Also the casual viewer theory has years and years of backing in every sport on the planet so sorry you coming in and going "I DONT BELIEVE IT" does not actually change that fact. It's not hiding information, it's preventing an overload of information as well as keeping a sense of immersion. On top of all that, it the game simply looks better without a bunch of green bars running all over the place. I would make the daring assumption, that higher level players are overrepresented in the tourneyviewership... Of course it's hiding information o_O I can understand it when you say, that you don't like the looks of it but I'd much rather know wtf is going on in the game. | ||
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Oboeman
Canada3980 Posts
Casters aren't good enough at observing to do the selection method properly, not a single one of them are. I do not fault them for it, I'm sure it is hard. If that's the case, tournaments should consider the possibility of using dedicated observers, because what ST_Legend's observing has done for the GSL has been absolutely incredible. Everyone hated on him on day one for not showing the twenty kill banshee, but since then there have been no complaints and tons of praise for him. I'm sure it took a bit of getting used to for the casters as well, but the overall product got more awesome. | ||
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Mr Showtime
United States1353 Posts
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