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[GSL] Can we blame the maps? *possible spoilers* - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
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nam nam
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden4672 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-12 13:07:43
October 12 2011 13:07 GMT
#21
Yes, I've always felt that sc2 are fairly map dependant. Some problems are caused by players not adapting their strategies enough for specific maps making them seen imbalanced when it's in fact a player issue, but there are definatly maps that effect the outcomes in certain matchups.
Ragoo
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany2773 Posts
October 12 2011 13:07 GMT
#22
I noticed that for some weeks now, the map pool really doesn't look all that good for Protoss:

This is the map pool:
+ Show Spoiler +
Antiga Shipyard
Bel'Shir Beach
Crossfire SE
Daybreak
Dual Sight
Metalopolis
Tal'Darim Altar LE
Terminus SE
Xel'Naga Fortress


So Bel'Shir, Crossfire, Xel'Naga Fortress are pretty terrible Protoss maps, Meta and Dual Sight aren't good for Protoss either.
The maps that are actually okay for Protoss are just that: okay. Afaik there is no really good Protoss map in the map pool.

So yeah the map pool doesn't favor Protoss.

On the other hand, do we really want maps that favor Protoss in its current state? Cause that would be pretty turtlish, undynamic maps with easy thirds/fourths and 1a deathball games.
I'd rather see the game fixed instead of adding Protoss maps at this point.

btw GSL actually adds this map and I think it's in response to Protoss imbalance atm. But as you can see, games will probably be very passive and turtish on this one... (so basically like Stephano vs Kiwikaki passive, just without the new mothership moves ...)
Member of TPW mapmaking team/// twitter.com/Ragoo_ /// "goody represents border between explainable reason and supernatural" Cloud
Verator
Profile Joined June 2010
United States283 Posts
October 12 2011 13:07 GMT
#23
The problems are unit efficiency and utility, not maps, the current pools provide only minor advantages to a given race.
So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in praise of intelligence. -- Bertrand Russell
Tppz!
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany1449 Posts
October 12 2011 13:08 GMT
#24
On October 12 2011 22:02 Gamegene wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 12 2011 22:02 Tppz! wrote:
No the maps arent the problem.
BUT you can make them imbalanced to reduce the number of terrans. Dunno how but it is somehting where the community could work on. Dunno if that is the right way


ROFL.

NO. What a horrible idea.

Too many zergs on NA ladder, blizzard should put rocks at the natural in all maps now.


Thats how it was done in Broodwar. Balance through maps.

And im not talking about Laddermappool - im talking about GSL maps. And I think GSL is trying to do so by adding belshirbeach etc

Still not sure if its worth it because Blizzard couldnt balance the game with the new imbalanced maps.
pdd
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia9933 Posts
October 12 2011 13:08 GMT
#25
On October 12 2011 21:56 Gamegene wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 12 2011 21:51 hahaimhenry wrote:
Crossfire is a really good map for Terran to say the least...


Wrong.

Should be using this

Honestly though, the maps are hardly the reason for this. It's just simply the fact that Terrans players are just doing a lot better in the GSL.
TI4 Champions: EE-Sama | B7-God | A-God_2000 | Kappa Lord | pieliedie
Sated
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
England4983 Posts
October 12 2011 13:09 GMT
#26
--- Nuked ---
thane
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States407 Posts
October 12 2011 13:10 GMT
#27
I feel it has more to do with Terrans in Korea being extremely good and the fact that Terran play is extremely diverse. In contrast Zerg and Protoss have found only a limited number of strategies that they can employ effectively.
Gotmog
Profile Joined October 2010
Serbia899 Posts
October 12 2011 13:11 GMT
#28
How should maps look so that they are good for P>Z>T in that order ?

I am not sure, since it looks like you can either have map that is good for T/P or good for Z ? Meaning, easy expos, barren lands for surrounds etc...

Maybe, by removing any viable elevator play from Terran ? And keeping chokes so P can keep using FF and not get surrounded so easily ?
"When you play the game of drones, you win or you die. There is no middle ground"
ReaperX
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Hong Kong1758 Posts
October 12 2011 13:11 GMT
#29
i heard tanks were a good unit in korea
Artosis : Clide. idrA : Shut up.
bokchoi
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Korea (South)9498 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-12 13:17:07
October 12 2011 13:12 GMT
#30
I really don't think we can blame the maps. Top-level Korean Terrans just have their shit together and figured out how the overcome "map imbalances." I say that because when all the new big maps first came out, a lot of the Terran players were complaining. I also think, the game hasn't really developed to a point yet, where we can fully understand what a Terran/Zerg/Protoss-favored map would look like. Sadly, we just need more time.

EDIT: The best example of this seems to be that in foreigner tournaments, Zerg and Protoss are a lot more prevalent with the number of top foreigners Terrans seemingly lacking. Even if it was a purely foreigner tournament I don't there are many people who would name a Terran player as a favorite (minus maybe ThorZaiN).
ChoiBoi
Profile Joined January 2011
United States130 Posts
October 12 2011 13:12 GMT
#31
I'm honestly still waiting for A-list BW players to switch over (current ones, not like July, Boxer, Nada, etc.) and completely fuck up the rest of the competition.
TigerKarl
Profile Joined November 2010
1757 Posts
October 12 2011 13:13 GMT
#32
Terran is the best designed race. There's not so much to explore in the other races in terms of combinations, builds and timings. That's why it took a long time to explore terran and why they're exploding at the very top level.
Gamegene
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States8308 Posts
October 12 2011 13:14 GMT
#33
On October 12 2011 22:08 pdd wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 12 2011 21:56 Gamegene wrote:
On October 12 2011 21:51 hahaimhenry wrote:
Crossfire is a really good map for Terran to say the least...


Wrong.

Should be using this

Honestly though, the maps are hardly the reason for this. It's just simply the fact that Terrans players are just doing a lot better in the GSL.


oh shit that's even worse ==;
Throw on your favorite jacket and you're good to roll. Stroll through the trees and let your miseries go.
Aborash
Profile Joined June 2009
65 Posts
October 12 2011 13:15 GMT
#34
Dustin Browder already said "That's almost a design flaw not a balance flaw"

Its the design of the terran race what cause the "imbalance", its a great design, and the others races lack of alternatives/units at their design.

Thats all, hopefully they can fix it adding the units they need at HoTS.
grobo
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Japan6199 Posts
October 12 2011 13:16 GMT
#35
While maps might have something to do with it, the game is simply not balanced yet.

If a certain race outnumber the other races that much, you don't need someone else to tell you that something is wrong.
We make signature, then defense it.
hmunkey
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom1973 Posts
October 12 2011 13:18 GMT
#36
The biggest problem is just that the players using terran are better than the players using zerg or protoss, with only a few exceptions.
Flonomenalz
Profile Joined May 2011
Nigeria3519 Posts
October 12 2011 13:20 GMT
#37
On October 12 2011 21:55 Nick_54 wrote:
Really should wait a while before posting this or rename the title. I instantly knew Happy beat Curious.

And no, I think the terran players are just playing better than all the other races right now thanks to their broodwar background or training environment (Slayers/IM house)

Yeah, because there are no Zergs or Protosses in any training houses and none of them have Brood War backgrounds.

July just started playing Starcraft this year, actually.
I love crazymoving
Devil Trigger
Profile Joined March 2011
United States107 Posts
October 12 2011 13:20 GMT
#38
No such thing as a bad map for Terran. I feel like all the changes are geared toward balancing PvZ and ZvP. While Terran get little tweaks every time. The same with maps IMO. There is no map that Terran does worst than both Protoss and Zerg.
HwangjaeTerran
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Finland5967 Posts
October 12 2011 13:20 GMT
#39
No, I don't think it's the maps fault.
Korea just has a good amount of great, consistent Terrans. That seems to be all there is to it.
https://steamcommunity.com/id/*tlusernamehere*/
Flonomenalz
Profile Joined May 2011
Nigeria3519 Posts
October 12 2011 13:20 GMT
#40
On October 12 2011 22:18 hmunkey wrote:
The biggest problem is just that the players using terran are better than the players using zerg or protoss, with only a few exceptions.

There is no basis for saying this at all.
I love crazymoving
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