|
On October 12 2011 22:18 hmunkey wrote:
The biggest problem is just that the players using terran are better than the players using zerg or protoss, with only a few exceptions.
However, you need to ask yourself why they're better. Is it because they're terran, because they're naturally better?
To a degree, it goes back to BW, where all the big heroes were Terran, thus influencing the new generation of players.
In the end, I think Dustin Browder understood it right with the design "flaw" part of his interview. Terran is simply a more solid race at the moment, and hopefully they can make Zerg and Protoss more varied in HotS, and all we can really do at this stage is hope that mainly the Protoss players figure some shit out, as zerg's doing fine really. This is Code S of course, outside of Code S, both Zerg and Protoss are doing well.
|
i really think its more the balance than the maps, maps are pretty good imo ( and im toss) (and im talking about gsl's maps)
|
I'm honestly astonished Terran's are still successful. The maps do not favour Terran.
Maps like Steppes of War or Delta Quadrant favour Terran. Dramatically. We have moved a long, long way from those maps, and I think everyone believed that moving so far from these maps would significantly hurt Terran. Those who didn't think Terran needed such a bad handicap were concerned it might outright break them (I admit to having some reservations myself when GSL first introduced the huge maps we see today).
And yet, Terran's have continued with as good if, not better success than the early GSL stages.
|
It's probably just the strength and abundance of top-tier terrans in Korea. In the foreign scene, there are less terrans that can compete with the top zergs and toss (thorzain, select, major).
|
The game being relatively new, it's going to take a while for changes in balance, also considering that two more expansions are coming; it's not going to be near perfect for a long time. As for maps, I'd prefer widely different ones, having different strengths and weaknesses for each race. Total balance would be boring, you'd might as well have one race with different models for each player.
|
United Kingdom16710 Posts
I think the current crop of GSL maps are pretty ok. Sure the stats indicate to some imbalance (across all races), but it's hard to tell with such a low sample. If you look at the maps individually, there aren't really things that pop out and scream 'this makes it too good for terran!'.
I really don't know how to explain the gross overrepresentation of the terran race in Code S tbh. Is it because more good players are playing terran? Could be, but that's impossible to actually prove. Is it because terran is a little too strong in terms of game design? Perhaps, but that's road only leads to more balance whines and major QQs. Is it because the current state of the game & strategies are more developed for terran than the other races? That could also be true, or it could be any combination of the 3. I guess we'll just have to wait another season of two to see if this racial imbalance in Code S reverts back or remains the same.
|
At first, I was one of the few who defended the second SCs balance, and also defend GOM when people say "GOMTvT". But, it has really got silly. I'm not sure any body has very good answer to this problem right now, otherwise solution would already be done. But, I think it is very important to look at problem as the whole and not just GSL.
In Korea, Terran is very good (obvious) but outside Korea there is not much evidence that this. Actually, I think most agree that outside Korea maybe foreigner have better Zerg and Protoss than Terran. Not that many good foreign Terran.
But why is this? If Terran was really OP wouldn't it carry over atleast some out of Korea?
And if we say okay Terran OP, how OP are they? Enough OP that underdeserveing Terran only GSL (basically)? But then we change, and foreign Terran even more bad?
Many of the Terran in Code S have been there very long. So, obvious they are good. How can we be sure that not just best of Korean are playing Terran? Not many notable Korean protoss and only few zerg.
It is much more complicated than just say Terran OP need change, but is definitely effecting the ability to enjoy high level SC2 games.
Sorry for bad english if bad
|
Most guys started playing (aka they picked their race) before any map pool changes were made. The only thing maps would change is whether or not players would switch races, which they haven't been doing really.
|
gsl maps favor terran a bit and if they don't you allin XD. Crossfire is probably the only map were terran is unfavored (unless they go air). But there is not much you can do against the terran early aggression, its really hard to change something for them without poking at the late game. The 5 seconds on the barracks were one thing that worked.
Could happen that they add something to terran the next balance patch, or remove some build time from the toss.
But in general people attack the terran when they are in position where the terran wants to be, while a terran attacks mostly when the opponent is in a bad spot. So the open parts in the gsl maps don't really bother a terran. Mid/late game people poke terrans when they are out of posi and do fine. Really strange stuff.
As for the code S i think some maps are free wins for the terran, just my feeling, but thats why i think terrans have it easier to stay in code S. Also think that the other races don't put as much effort into micro (but i might miss all their micro, but if i see colossi optimizing their aoe damage its mostly foreigners who are doing it)
|
Wow, people really think the maps don't play a large part in it? I don't know what to say. A lot of the Terrans got in before balance changes and map pool changes, I won't deny T having some pretty ridiculous power at the ultra-high level, but GSL is a very stagnant league and so the initial maps being so overwhelming terran-centric and terran being able to adapt to nearly any map-type has a LOT to do with it.
|
I generally don't think you can make any statements on balance because of a few months of terran dominance. The total number of games is far too small to have statistical value.
|
It's in the races more than the maps I feel. SC2 can never be a true e-sport when imbalance is between races.
|
The problem with the mass of terrans in the GSL is the fact that the players can't get knocked out, and the fact that the best players in the world are terrans.
If they made it so around two-thirds of the Code S players would go to up-and-down matches, there wouldn't be huge number of terran players left over from when terran was imba.
|
yes.
User was warned for this post
|
I don't think star2 is at the point where bw was where all races are godlike in the hands of the pros and maps actually could make a big difference. Now in star2, I really don't think it's the case. Sure you have maps that are favored for one race or another because of the terrain and what not, but star2 isn't at the point in racial balance and or strategical balance that the maps at the korean pro level make that big of a difference in more terrans being in gsl. During saviors prime he stated he hard a hard time beating cjs practice partners on the map pool of the time. But regardless of that, he destroyed all terrans in osl, msl during his reign on the most terran favored maps in bw imo.
I think there will be a time like bw,where maps can make a somewhat a difference. But regardless of the metagame, maps, or what ever, any player of any race can well on any map. And for damn sure we aren't even close to a point in the metagame where this discussion on map imbalance should even be discussed, there are other racial and strategical imbalance discussion that are worth talking about that would make more sense then no toss in gsl cuz of maps.
|
There is many contributing factors that have lead to the situation of Code S being largely Terran. To try to pint point one thing as 'the' reason would be faulty. Meta game, Code S structure, Maps, Player Skill, etc... all have varying levels of contribution at one time or another that has lead to the T domination of Code S.
I think one thing that would probably help Code S to be honest is if they dumped everyone from Code S once a year and ran 2 or 3 tournaments more like the original GSL. That however, is not likely to happen at all just due to the fact korea uses Code S and the GSL almost like salary to pay the players.
|
Getting rid of all those "instant" attacks from Terran arsenal will solve this mess. I assure you.
|
Of course maps are a part of the balance but i do not think they are the reason for the imbalance. i would prefer if you'd add more options to your poll.
|
Terran is IMBA
User was temp banned for this post.
|
On October 12 2011 22:20 Flonomenalz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2011 22:18 hmunkey wrote:
The biggest problem is just that the players using terran are better than the players using zerg or protoss, with only a few exceptions. There is no basis for saying this at all.
Don't listen to him, he is a terran player so he must think of himself to be special. Everyone else is just stupid.
Some balance with maps could be done, but still, the race design needs some work.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
