It is highly recommended that your read this entire thread - at least until page 10. If you make uninformed opinions that have been answered by the thread, col management or Destiny, you will be banned.
So, the question has been raised, what about black people? Why can they use the word and have it not be racist? (snip) They're not using it as a pejorative. They are simply using it as a descriptor of someone with whom they share a common trait or a connection. (snip) Once we examine the meaning behind the word, we can see that, from a black man to a black man, it takes on a very similar meaning as "brother".
Chris Rock had a bit once (as well as other comedians, and many others, I'm sure), where he talks about the use of the word nigger, and what it means, but basically the bit boiled down to this: There are black guys, and then there are niggers, and nobody likes a nigger. Basically, comparing the word "nigger" to "redneck" or any other low-class term.
Yeah, I have heard the Chris Rock one before but I don't think I have ever heard anyone use the word that way outside of a comedy routine. The common, day-to-day usage between two friends definitely does not really carry that kind of meaning with it.
Also:
Anyway, I don't think Chris Rock is really a great authority on contemporary linguistics.
On June 28 2011 10:38 badcnr wrote:
On June 28 2011 10:01 bahl sofs tiil wrote:
On June 27 2011 15:20 Destiny wrote:
On June 27 2011 14:29 Lysenko wrote:
On June 27 2011 14:06 Destiny wrote: Don't make another post in this thread until you can explain to me why the black community uses the word "nigger" so often in rap without being considered racist.
A black speaker can make the argument that he or she uses the word to make an effort to take control of language which has historically been used against the black community by a white majority.
While you may think that you're trying to eliminate the word's derogatory power by using it yourself, that you are a part of that white majority makes it impossible for you to do that.
You are absolutely right that context matters. What you don't see is that when you use the word yourself, you are not in control of the context -- that it's coming out of your mouth is the only context that people see.
Destiny, I respect your intelligence and I also understand your argument, but simply explaining to someone that they should not, in your opinion, be offended when you say that word won't make them react differently.
Edit: I would normally question whether this is an appropriate topic for a thread about Destiny leaving his team, but since he himself asked the question, I figured it deserved an answer.
I'm sorry, but you're incredibly wrong. It is on the part of the audience to decipher what the speaker is saying. It always has been, and it always will be.
There's a reason why, when you take higher level English, you spend an incredibly amount of time learning ancient context in order to understand what speakers meant at the time. You don't take Shakespeare at face value, you spend time learning history so you can understand the message he was trying to convey.
Then you should learn the history behind this word.
People have said that they are not using it racially, that it is just a general pejorative, but where does the word derive its pejorative qualities? What about this word makes it suitable to be insulting? The Latin root word simply means "black". How is that suitable for an insult? Using it in a pejorative way is disrespectful because it assumes that that having dark skin or having qualities stereotypically associated with those who have dark skin is bad. Using it toward a white person is akin to saying "you're like a black person!" and meaning it as an insult. Without the hateful, racist history, "nigger" would simply be word used to describe people with dark skin. There is no benign, non-racist way to use the word in a pejorative sense and a light skinned person cannot use the word simply to refer to a dark skinned person, because of the history behind it.
On the language changing: Language is a social, collective function and the connotations and history of a word are decided by that collective. Our society today almost exclusively considers the word "nigger" to still be a hateful word with a hateful history and hateful meanings. One person cannot simply claim "I am using it differently" and expect all that to disappear. That is not how language works.
So, the question has been raised, what about black people? Why can they use the word and have it not be racist? Remember, "nigger" originally started as simply a descriptor of people with dark skin, specifically of African descent in English. So, when a person who is himself black uses the word, the context becomes entirely different (and not due to any non-verbal cues, such as body language) and this context lacks the hateful history. They're not using it as a pejorative. They are simply using it as a descriptor of someone with whom they share a common trait or a connection. Another of example of this same principle is a Japanese man in blackface. Without the history of racism that blackface has in the USA, it would not be offensive and it is not offensive in a culture and society where that history does not exist. It is simply a man doing an impression of a man with darker skin. Once we examine the meaning behind the word, we can see that, from a black man to a black man, it takes on a very similar meaning as "brother".
So your saying using it in a different context doesnt change the meaning of word or does? Cause i am pretty sure you agreed that context does.... Your kind of changing everything you say to best fit your argument. Why not just say that you view the word like that then its not facts your pointing out just opinions.
I don't think I have ever said that context can't change the meaning of a word, have I? I certainly didn't mean to.
On June 28 2011 10:49 Belial88 wrote:
On June 28 2011 10:08 bahl sofs tiil wrote:
On June 28 2011 10:04 Belial88 wrote: ^ So what does this have to do with Destiny and Complexity?
What's your point?
And you do realize that Destiny has only raised the word up as in have a discussion on the word. The same way you have, actually. Funny how you demonize him for doing the same thing you're doing.
I haven't mentioned Destiny once. I am talking about language.
Why?
I don't know - I didn't start the conversation. People were already talking about before I got here.
On June 28 2011 11:47 Deindar wrote: I hate to bump this thread, but I want to kind of reiterate what some other people said. Saying the word nigger in a joking manner doesn't make you a racist. Saying it with the intent to disrespect and injure does. Can we all clearly see which one Destiny is?
Saying something racist doesn't mean you are racist but it doesn't you should say it, either.
So what are you trying to say? Cause if context can change the meaning of the word then i am pretty sure context is not racist so it works with every one. So then what you were saying is invalid. Context trumps the word. As long as its not used in a racist way and with respect.
On June 28 2011 11:53 bahl sofs tiil wrote: I don't think I have ever said that context can't change the meaning of a word, have I? I certainly didn't mean to.
Well, you're wrong. Not only does context change the meaning of a word, words actually have no meaning at all without context.
I'm a linguist, and I'd love to explain this myself, but Wikipedia does a fine job without being a large expenditure of my time.
I think you misread what I wrote.
"I don't think I have ever said that context can't change the meaning of a word, have I? I certainly didn't mean to."
Seriously. You have been proved wrong and wrong yet if i say anything you will change it to what ever you didnt mean it or say it like that. Several times. Words are not exclusive to race or gender or sexaul orientation.
On June 28 2011 15:25 bahl sofs tiil wrote: Not using slurs can hardly be compared to the teletubbies. Come on, now, don't be absurd.
NO but the point is that if you clear away any offensive language then thats how the shows or video games would be compared to. I can see how you get really offended by those words cause you are not good at reading the message the person is trying to get across.
So, the question has been raised, what about black people? Why can they use the word and have it not be racist? (snip) They're not using it as a pejorative. They are simply using it as a descriptor of someone with whom they share a common trait or a connection. (snip) Once we examine the meaning behind the word, we can see that, from a black man to a black man, it takes on a very similar meaning as "brother".
Chris Rock had a bit once (as well as other comedians, and many others, I'm sure), where he talks about the use of the word nigger, and what it means, but basically the bit boiled down to this: There are black guys, and then there are niggers, and nobody likes a nigger. Basically, comparing the word "nigger" to "redneck" or any other low-class term.
Yeah, I have heard the Chris Rock one before but I don't think I have ever heard anyone use the word that way outside of a comedy routine. The common, day-to-day usage between two friends definitely does not really carry that kind of meaning with it.
Anyway, I don't think Chris Rock is really a great authority on contemporary linguistics.
On June 28 2011 10:38 badcnr wrote:
On June 28 2011 10:01 bahl sofs tiil wrote:
On June 27 2011 15:20 Destiny wrote:
On June 27 2011 14:29 Lysenko wrote: [quote]
A black speaker can make the argument that he or she uses the word to make an effort to take control of language which has historically been used against the black community by a white majority.
While you may think that you're trying to eliminate the word's derogatory power by using it yourself, that you are a part of that white majority makes it impossible for you to do that.
You are absolutely right that context matters. What you don't see is that when you use the word yourself, you are not in control of the context -- that it's coming out of your mouth is the only context that people see.
Destiny, I respect your intelligence and I also understand your argument, but simply explaining to someone that they should not, in your opinion, be offended when you say that word won't make them react differently.
Edit: I would normally question whether this is an appropriate topic for a thread about Destiny leaving his team, but since he himself asked the question, I figured it deserved an answer.
I'm sorry, but you're incredibly wrong. It is on the part of the audience to decipher what the speaker is saying. It always has been, and it always will be.
There's a reason why, when you take higher level English, you spend an incredibly amount of time learning ancient context in order to understand what speakers meant at the time. You don't take Shakespeare at face value, you spend time learning history so you can understand the message he was trying to convey.
Then you should learn the history behind this word.
People have said that they are not using it racially, that it is just a general pejorative, but where does the word derive its pejorative qualities? What about this word makes it suitable to be insulting? The Latin root word simply means "black". How is that suitable for an insult? Using it in a pejorative way is disrespectful because it assumes that that having dark skin or having qualities stereotypically associated with those who have dark skin is bad. Using it toward a white person is akin to saying "you're like a black person!" and meaning it as an insult. Without the hateful, racist history, "nigger" would simply be word used to describe people with dark skin. There is no benign, non-racist way to use the word in a pejorative sense and a light skinned person cannot use the word simply to refer to a dark skinned person, because of the history behind it.
On the language changing: Language is a social, collective function and the connotations and history of a word are decided by that collective. Our society today almost exclusively considers the word "nigger" to still be a hateful word with a hateful history and hateful meanings. One person cannot simply claim "I am using it differently" and expect all that to disappear. That is not how language works.
So, the question has been raised, what about black people? Why can they use the word and have it not be racist? Remember, "nigger" originally started as simply a descriptor of people with dark skin, specifically of African descent in English. So, when a person who is himself black uses the word, the context becomes entirely different (and not due to any non-verbal cues, such as body language) and this context lacks the hateful history. They're not using it as a pejorative. They are simply using it as a descriptor of someone with whom they share a common trait or a connection. Another of example of this same principle is a Japanese man in blackface. Without the history of racism that blackface has in the USA, it would not be offensive and it is not offensive in a culture and society where that history does not exist. It is simply a man doing an impression of a man with darker skin. Once we examine the meaning behind the word, we can see that, from a black man to a black man, it takes on a very similar meaning as "brother".
So your saying using it in a different context doesnt change the meaning of word or does? Cause i am pretty sure you agreed that context does.... Your kind of changing everything you say to best fit your argument. Why not just say that you view the word like that then its not facts your pointing out just opinions.
I don't think I have ever said that context can't change the meaning of a word, have I? I certainly didn't mean to.
On June 28 2011 10:49 Belial88 wrote:
On June 28 2011 10:08 bahl sofs tiil wrote:
On June 28 2011 10:04 Belial88 wrote: ^ So what does this have to do with Destiny and Complexity?
What's your point?
And you do realize that Destiny has only raised the word up as in have a discussion on the word. The same way you have, actually. Funny how you demonize him for doing the same thing you're doing.
I haven't mentioned Destiny once. I am talking about language.
Why?
I don't know - I didn't start the conversation. People were already talking about before I got here.
On June 28 2011 11:47 Deindar wrote: I hate to bump this thread, but I want to kind of reiterate what some other people said. Saying the word nigger in a joking manner doesn't make you a racist. Saying it with the intent to disrespect and injure does. Can we all clearly see which one Destiny is?
Saying something racist doesn't mean you are racist but it doesn't you should say it, either.
So what are you trying to say? Cause if context can change the meaning of the word then i am pretty sure context is not racist so it works with every one. So then what you were saying is invalid. Context trumps the word. As long as its not used in a racist way and with respect.
Dictionary.com: the set of circumstances or facts that surround a particular event, situation, etc.
TheFreedictionary.com: the conditions and circumstances that are relevant to an event, fact, etc.
Define.com: the set of facts or circumstances that surround a situation or event;
Facts, circumstances, conditions. Come, on, man. Now you are just being silly.
On June 28 2011 13:50 Solarswordsman wrote:
On June 28 2011 11:53 bahl sofs tiil wrote: I don't think I have ever said that context can't change the meaning of a word, have I? I certainly didn't mean to.
Well, you're wrong. Not only does context change the meaning of a word, words actually have no meaning at all without context.
I'm a linguist, and I'd love to explain this myself, but Wikipedia does a fine job without being a large expenditure of my time.
I think you misread what I wrote.
"I don't think I have ever said that context can't change the meaning of a word, have I? I certainly didn't mean to."
Seriously. You have been proved wrong and wrong yet if i say anything you will change it to what ever you didnt mean it or say it like that. Several times. Words are not exclusive to race or gender or sexaul orientation.
Proved wrong about what? When? I haven't changed what I have been saying once.
On June 28 2011 15:25 bahl sofs tiil wrote: Not using slurs can hardly be compared to the teletubbies. Come on, now, don't be absurd.
NO but the point is that if you clear away any offensive language then thats how the shows or video games would be compared to. I can see how you get really offended by those words cause you are not good at reading the message the person is trying to get across.
You are acting like simply not using racial slurs is some kind of huge deal. Nearly every show on TV manages to do it and attract many more adults than all of the StarCraft streams combined. The GSL also manages to attract many adults without using racial slurs. NASL, too. Most movies, as well. With the exception of one genre, most music seems to have no trouble with this, either. In fact, most forms of entertainment seem to be plenty mature and popular with adults without resorting to using these words.
Funny.
Also, I never said I have gotten offended by anything.
The word fag and rape have connotations for gamers and his viewers, as well.
I personally enjoy when he says things like EZ MODE RAPED, or SUP NIGGA to Combat-Ex. It's probably the most prodding things you can say to someone online, as much as you can. I mean what, you think he should say "your stupid?" a bunch?
We know it has a history. This is a mature game, and we (most of us) understand that. We know the opponent is not homosexual or black, which is why it's so funny.
So when people like me watch his stream, it brings in lots of revenue. I believe I am helping e-sports by watching Destiny, because I think he has the appeal to the kind of audience SC2 is made for - over 17.
You are acting like simply not using racial slurs is some kind of huge deal. Nearly every show on TV manages to do it and attract many more adults than all of the StarCraft streams combined. The GSL also manages to attract many adults without using racial slurs. NASL, too. Most movies, as well. With the exception of one genre, most music seems to have no trouble with this, either. In fact, most forms of entertainment seem to be plenty mature and popular with adults without resorting to using these words.
It sounds to me that you want to limit my freedom, to be frank, and not to radicalize things. But I like when Destiny says such ridiculous things. I also watch TV shows on cable from HBO, where words like fag and nigger are CONSTANTLY used (The Wire, Sopranos were all homophobic, True Blood says lots of 'racial' slurs), which bring in much more money than The Office, so if you want to resort that argument, you lose. Hell, I believe the 'Best' movie a year or two ago was a sympathetic movie about a pedophile.
I mean your point of view is just ridiculous. You think because some people get offended, that that type of language shouldn't be used at all - essentially, all content should be geared toward a certain more 'acceptable' manner. But I strongly disagree, I feel the more content, the better, and people have the freedom to choose what they want to watch and support.
Personally, if the NASL and the GSL used racial slurs - or really, language like PWNED NEWB, not so much racial slurs - I know I would enjoy it more. How awesome would it be if Nestea wrote "RAPED" with creep tumors after the 4-1 Nestea vs Inca?
Now would I show it to my friends as much? Maybe not all of them. Would I show it to my parents? No. Would I show it to my kids? Definitely not. But maybe when they get older, or maybe to my friends who like that kind of things, I would show it to them. As we see time and time again, those who try to appeal to everyone, appeal to no one.
So, the question has been raised, what about black people? Why can they use the word and have it not be racist? (snip) They're not using it as a pejorative. They are simply using it as a descriptor of someone with whom they share a common trait or a connection. (snip) Once we examine the meaning behind the word, we can see that, from a black man to a black man, it takes on a very similar meaning as "brother".
Chris Rock had a bit once (as well as other comedians, and many others, I'm sure), where he talks about the use of the word nigger, and what it means, but basically the bit boiled down to this: There are black guys, and then there are niggers, and nobody likes a nigger. Basically, comparing the word "nigger" to "redneck" or any other low-class term.
Yeah, I have heard the Chris Rock one before but I don't think I have ever heard anyone use the word that way outside of a comedy routine. The common, day-to-day usage between two friends definitely does not really carry that kind of meaning with it.
Anyway, I don't think Chris Rock is really a great authority on contemporary linguistics.
On June 28 2011 10:38 badcnr wrote:
On June 28 2011 10:01 bahl sofs tiil wrote:
On June 27 2011 15:20 Destiny wrote: [quote]
I'm sorry, but you're incredibly wrong. It is on the part of the audience to decipher what the speaker is saying. It always has been, and it always will be.
There's a reason why, when you take higher level English, you spend an incredibly amount of time learning ancient context in order to understand what speakers meant at the time. You don't take Shakespeare at face value, you spend time learning history so you can understand the message he was trying to convey.
Then you should learn the history behind this word.
People have said that they are not using it racially, that it is just a general pejorative, but where does the word derive its pejorative qualities? What about this word makes it suitable to be insulting? The Latin root word simply means "black". How is that suitable for an insult? Using it in a pejorative way is disrespectful because it assumes that that having dark skin or having qualities stereotypically associated with those who have dark skin is bad. Using it toward a white person is akin to saying "you're like a black person!" and meaning it as an insult. Without the hateful, racist history, "nigger" would simply be word used to describe people with dark skin. There is no benign, non-racist way to use the word in a pejorative sense and a light skinned person cannot use the word simply to refer to a dark skinned person, because of the history behind it.
On the language changing: Language is a social, collective function and the connotations and history of a word are decided by that collective. Our society today almost exclusively considers the word "nigger" to still be a hateful word with a hateful history and hateful meanings. One person cannot simply claim "I am using it differently" and expect all that to disappear. That is not how language works.
So, the question has been raised, what about black people? Why can they use the word and have it not be racist? Remember, "nigger" originally started as simply a descriptor of people with dark skin, specifically of African descent in English. So, when a person who is himself black uses the word, the context becomes entirely different (and not due to any non-verbal cues, such as body language) and this context lacks the hateful history. They're not using it as a pejorative. They are simply using it as a descriptor of someone with whom they share a common trait or a connection. Another of example of this same principle is a Japanese man in blackface. Without the history of racism that blackface has in the USA, it would not be offensive and it is not offensive in a culture and society where that history does not exist. It is simply a man doing an impression of a man with darker skin. Once we examine the meaning behind the word, we can see that, from a black man to a black man, it takes on a very similar meaning as "brother".
So your saying using it in a different context doesnt change the meaning of word or does? Cause i am pretty sure you agreed that context does.... Your kind of changing everything you say to best fit your argument. Why not just say that you view the word like that then its not facts your pointing out just opinions.
I don't think I have ever said that context can't change the meaning of a word, have I? I certainly didn't mean to.
On June 28 2011 10:49 Belial88 wrote:
On June 28 2011 10:08 bahl sofs tiil wrote:
On June 28 2011 10:04 Belial88 wrote: ^ So what does this have to do with Destiny and Complexity?
What's your point?
And you do realize that Destiny has only raised the word up as in have a discussion on the word. The same way you have, actually. Funny how you demonize him for doing the same thing you're doing.
I haven't mentioned Destiny once. I am talking about language.
Why?
I don't know - I didn't start the conversation. People were already talking about before I got here.
On June 28 2011 11:47 Deindar wrote: I hate to bump this thread, but I want to kind of reiterate what some other people said. Saying the word nigger in a joking manner doesn't make you a racist. Saying it with the intent to disrespect and injure does. Can we all clearly see which one Destiny is?
Saying something racist doesn't mean you are racist but it doesn't you should say it, either.
So what are you trying to say? Cause if context can change the meaning of the word then i am pretty sure context is not racist so it works with every one. So then what you were saying is invalid. Context trumps the word. As long as its not used in a racist way and with respect.
Dictionary.com: the set of circumstances or facts that surround a particular event, situation, etc.
TheFreedictionary.com: the conditions and circumstances that are relevant to an event, fact, etc.
Define.com: the set of facts or circumstances that surround a situation or event;
Facts, circumstances, conditions. Come, on, man. Now you are just being silly.
On June 28 2011 13:50 Solarswordsman wrote:
On June 28 2011 11:53 bahl sofs tiil wrote: I don't think I have ever said that context can't change the meaning of a word, have I? I certainly didn't mean to.
Well, you're wrong. Not only does context change the meaning of a word, words actually have no meaning at all without context.
I'm a linguist, and I'd love to explain this myself, but Wikipedia does a fine job without being a large expenditure of my time.
I think you misread what I wrote.
"I don't think I have ever said that context can't change the meaning of a word, have I? I certainly didn't mean to."
Seriously. You have been proved wrong and wrong yet if i say anything you will change it to what ever you didnt mean it or say it like that. Several times. Words are not exclusive to race or gender or sexaul orientation.
Proved wrong about what? When? I haven't changed what I have been saying once.
On June 28 2011 15:25 bahl sofs tiil wrote: Not using slurs can hardly be compared to the teletubbies. Come on, now, don't be absurd.
NO but the point is that if you clear away any offensive language then thats how the shows or video games would be compared to. I can see how you get really offended by those words cause you are not good at reading the message the person is trying to get across.
You are acting like simply not using racial slurs is some kind of huge deal. Nearly every show on TV manages to do it and attract many more adults than all of the StarCraft streams combined. The GSL also manages to attract many adults without using racial slurs. NASL, too. Most movies, as well. With the exception of one genre, most music seems to have no trouble with this, either. In fact, most forms of entertainment seem to be plenty mature and popular with adults without resorting to using these words.
Funny.
Also, I never said I have gotten offended by anything.
You have changed things or said that we missed what your meaning. You even used a more racist comment judging french canadians and their views. You even said that non-verbal cues werent part of context yet then say that skin color is. You also understand that a word can be changed, even offensive words. So why is it wrong for a person use a word in a way that is not coming across to its viewers as racist? Or why is coming across as racist ? It shouldnt because that is not the context it is used in. You say punk gaming kids arent the ones who change the words well i dont know who you exactly think changes words but i am pretty sure they are involved too. Not using racial slurs is a good thing when they still are not being prejedice. If that is how you decide to be. But just because some one uses a racial slur in a non racist way doesnt make them wrong to do it or racist. The same with any offensive word.
On June 28 2011 15:51 Belial88 wrote: It sounds to me that you want to limit my freedom
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
You seem to be confused on what I am discussing here. Go back to where I first started with this post. People said that these words do not have racial or prejudicial connotations in the way they were being used. These people were and are incorrect and I was informing them of this. I haven't given my opinion on Destiny or his stream or offensive language in entertainment at all. People attributing these different opinions and view to me only serves to demonstrate their lack of understanding for both what I say and the situation being discussed.
On June 28 2011 15:51 Belial88 wrote: It sounds to me that you want to limit my freedom
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
You seem to be confused on what I am discussing here. Go back to where I first started with this post. People said that these words do not have racial or prejudicial connotations in the way they were being used. These people were and are incorrect and I was informing them of this. I haven't given my opinion on Destiny or his stream or offensive language in entertainment at all. People attributing these different opinions and view to me only serves to demonstrate their lack of understanding for both what I say and the situation being discussed.
Yeah , but right now the only person who understands what you mean and the situation is you.
You seem to be confused on what I am discussing here. Go back to where I first started with this post. People said that these words do not have racial or prejudicial connotations in the way they were being used. These people were and are incorrect and I was informing them of this. I haven't given my opinion on Destiny or his stream or offensive language in entertainment at all. People attributing these different opinions and view to me only serves to demonstrate their lack of understanding for both what I say and the situation being discussed.
And your clearly taking my words out of context, you know my full sentence said much more than that. I'm starting to feel your just trolling.
On June 28 2011 15:51 Belial88 wrote: It sounds to me that you want to limit my freedom
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
You seem to be confused on what I am discussing here. Go back to where I first started with this post. People said that these words do not have racial or prejudicial connotations in the way they were being used. These people were and are incorrect and I was informing them of this. I haven't given my opinion on Destiny or his stream or offensive language in entertainment at all. People attributing these different opinions and view to me only serves to demonstrate their lack of understanding for both what I say and the situation being discussed.
Yeah , but right now the only person who understands what you mean and the situation is you.
And your clearly taking my words out of context, you know my full sentence said much more than that. I'm starting to feel your just trolling.
clearly. yet i was not really responding to you post now was i ? I was more stating that the guy seems to give the you dont understand what i was meaning but has failed clearly express his view
So, the question has been raised, what about black people? Why can they use the word and have it not be racist? (snip) They're not using it as a pejorative. They are simply using it as a descriptor of someone with whom they share a common trait or a connection. (snip) Once we examine the meaning behind the word, we can see that, from a black man to a black man, it takes on a very similar meaning as "brother".
Chris Rock had a bit once (as well as other comedians, and many others, I'm sure), where he talks about the use of the word nigger, and what it means, but basically the bit boiled down to this: There are black guys, and then there are niggers, and nobody likes a nigger. Basically, comparing the word "nigger" to "redneck" or any other low-class term.
Yeah, I have heard the Chris Rock one before but I don't think I have ever heard anyone use the word that way outside of a comedy routine. The common, day-to-day usage between two friends definitely does not really carry that kind of meaning with it.
Anyway, I don't think Chris Rock is really a great authority on contemporary linguistics.
On June 28 2011 10:38 badcnr wrote:
On June 28 2011 10:01 bahl sofs tiil wrote: [quote]
Then you should learn the history behind this word.
People have said that they are not using it racially, that it is just a general pejorative, but where does the word derive its pejorative qualities? What about this word makes it suitable to be insulting? The Latin root word simply means "black". How is that suitable for an insult? Using it in a pejorative way is disrespectful because it assumes that that having dark skin or having qualities stereotypically associated with those who have dark skin is bad. Using it toward a white person is akin to saying "you're like a black person!" and meaning it as an insult. Without the hateful, racist history, "nigger" would simply be word used to describe people with dark skin. There is no benign, non-racist way to use the word in a pejorative sense and a light skinned person cannot use the word simply to refer to a dark skinned person, because of the history behind it.
On the language changing: Language is a social, collective function and the connotations and history of a word are decided by that collective. Our society today almost exclusively considers the word "nigger" to still be a hateful word with a hateful history and hateful meanings. One person cannot simply claim "I am using it differently" and expect all that to disappear. That is not how language works.
So, the question has been raised, what about black people? Why can they use the word and have it not be racist? Remember, "nigger" originally started as simply a descriptor of people with dark skin, specifically of African descent in English. So, when a person who is himself black uses the word, the context becomes entirely different (and not due to any non-verbal cues, such as body language) and this context lacks the hateful history. They're not using it as a pejorative. They are simply using it as a descriptor of someone with whom they share a common trait or a connection. Another of example of this same principle is a Japanese man in blackface. Without the history of racism that blackface has in the USA, it would not be offensive and it is not offensive in a culture and society where that history does not exist. It is simply a man doing an impression of a man with darker skin. Once we examine the meaning behind the word, we can see that, from a black man to a black man, it takes on a very similar meaning as "brother".
So your saying using it in a different context doesnt change the meaning of word or does? Cause i am pretty sure you agreed that context does.... Your kind of changing everything you say to best fit your argument. Why not just say that you view the word like that then its not facts your pointing out just opinions.
I don't think I have ever said that context can't change the meaning of a word, have I? I certainly didn't mean to.
On June 28 2011 10:49 Belial88 wrote:
On June 28 2011 10:08 bahl sofs tiil wrote: [quote]
I haven't mentioned Destiny once. I am talking about language.
Why?
I don't know - I didn't start the conversation. People were already talking about before I got here.
On June 28 2011 11:47 Deindar wrote: I hate to bump this thread, but I want to kind of reiterate what some other people said. Saying the word nigger in a joking manner doesn't make you a racist. Saying it with the intent to disrespect and injure does. Can we all clearly see which one Destiny is?
Saying something racist doesn't mean you are racist but it doesn't you should say it, either.
So what are you trying to say? Cause if context can change the meaning of the word then i am pretty sure context is not racist so it works with every one. So then what you were saying is invalid. Context trumps the word. As long as its not used in a racist way and with respect.
Dictionary.com: the set of circumstances or facts that surround a particular event, situation, etc.
TheFreedictionary.com: the conditions and circumstances that are relevant to an event, fact, etc.
Define.com: the set of facts or circumstances that surround a situation or event;
Facts, circumstances, conditions. Come, on, man. Now you are just being silly.
On June 28 2011 13:50 Solarswordsman wrote:
On June 28 2011 11:53 bahl sofs tiil wrote: I don't think I have ever said that context can't change the meaning of a word, have I? I certainly didn't mean to.
Well, you're wrong. Not only does context change the meaning of a word, words actually have no meaning at all without context.
I'm a linguist, and I'd love to explain this myself, but Wikipedia does a fine job without being a large expenditure of my time.
I think you misread what I wrote.
"I don't think I have ever said that context can't change the meaning of a word, have I? I certainly didn't mean to."
Seriously. You have been proved wrong and wrong yet if i say anything you will change it to what ever you didnt mean it or say it like that. Several times. Words are not exclusive to race or gender or sexaul orientation.
Proved wrong about what? When? I haven't changed what I have been saying once.
You are getting really silly, now.
On June 28 2011 15:32 badcnr wrote:
On June 28 2011 15:25 bahl sofs tiil wrote: Not using slurs can hardly be compared to the teletubbies. Come on, now, don't be absurd.
NO but the point is that if you clear away any offensive language then thats how the shows or video games would be compared to. I can see how you get really offended by those words cause you are not good at reading the message the person is trying to get across.
You are acting like simply not using racial slurs is some kind of huge deal. Nearly every show on TV manages to do it and attract many more adults than all of the StarCraft streams combined. The GSL also manages to attract many adults without using racial slurs. NASL, too. Most movies, as well. With the exception of one genre, most music seems to have no trouble with this, either. In fact, most forms of entertainment seem to be plenty mature and popular with adults without resorting to using these words.
Funny.
Also, I never said I have gotten offended by anything.
You have changed things or said that we missed what your meaning. You even used a more racist comment judging french canadians and their views. You even said that non-verbal cues werent part of context yet then say that skin color is. You also understand that a word can be changed, even offensive words. So why is it wrong for a person use a word in a way that is not coming across to its viewers as racist? Or why is coming across as racist ? It shouldnt because that is not the context it is used in. You say punk gaming kids arent the ones who change the words well i dont know who you exactly think changes words but i am pretty sure they are involved too. Not using racial slurs is a good thing when they still are not being prejedice. If that is how you decide to be. But just because some one uses a racial slur in a non racist way doesnt make them wrong to do it or racist. The same with any offensive word.
I haven't changed anything. You have missed my meaning.
The thing I said about being from the French parts of Canada is because then English might not be your first language, which would explain why you kept missing my meaning. The part about the French and race was joke.
For nonverbal cues, I was under the impression that we were speaking about tone, facial expressions, body language, etc. I don't believe these things really fit into the "context" category.
Just because neither the speaker nor the audience realize the history and context behind a word that would make it racist or offensive does not mean that it is not. Again, language is collective to a society or a culture and the society and culture we are a part of still attaches these words to their history and, as I explained above, the way these words are being used quite firmly tethers them to their racist past, as well.
On June 28 2011 15:51 Belial88 wrote: It sounds to me that you want to limit my freedom
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
You seem to be confused on what I am discussing here. Go back to where I first started with this post. People said that these words do not have racial or prejudicial connotations in the way they were being used. These people were and are incorrect and I was informing them of this. I haven't given my opinion on Destiny or his stream or offensive language in entertainment at all. People attributing these different opinions and view to me only serves to demonstrate their lack of understanding for both what I say and the situation being discussed.
Yeah , but right now the only person who understands what you mean and the situation is you.
Go back through and read the thread. Other people have understood me perfectly.
On June 28 2011 15:51 Belial88 wrote: The word fag and rape have connotations for gamers and his viewers, as well.
I personally enjoy when he says things like EZ MODE RAPED, or SUP NIGGA to Combat-Ex. It's probably the most prodding things you can say to someone online, as much as you can. I mean what, you think he should say "your stupid?" a bunch?
We know it has a history. This is a mature game, and we (most of us) understand that. We know the opponent is not homosexual or black, which is why it's so funny.
So when people like me watch his stream, it brings in lots of revenue. I believe I am helping e-sports by watching Destiny, because I think he has the appeal to the kind of audience SC2 is made for - over 17.
You are acting like simply not using racial slurs is some kind of huge deal. Nearly every show on TV manages to do it and attract many more adults than all of the StarCraft streams combined. The GSL also manages to attract many adults without using racial slurs. NASL, too. Most movies, as well. With the exception of one genre, most music seems to have no trouble with this, either. In fact, most forms of entertainment seem to be plenty mature and popular with adults without resorting to using these words.
It sounds to me that you want to limit my freedom, to be frank, and not to radicalize things. But I like when Destiny says such ridiculous things. I also watch TV shows on cable from HBO, where words like fag and nigger are CONSTANTLY used (The Wire, Sopranos were all homophobic, True Blood says lots of 'racial' slurs), which bring in much more money than The Office, so if you want to resort that argument, you lose. Hell, I believe the 'Best' movie a year or two ago was a sympathetic movie about a pedophile.
I mean your point of view is just ridiculous. You think because some people get offended, that that type of language shouldn't be used at all - essentially, all content should be geared toward a certain more 'acceptable' manner. But I strongly disagree, I feel the more content, the better, and people have the freedom to choose what they want to watch and support.
Personally, if the NASL and the GSL used racial slurs - or really, language like PWNED NEWB, not so much racial slurs - I know I would enjoy it more. How awesome would it be if Nestea wrote "RAPED" with creep tumors after the 4-1 Nestea vs Inca?
Now would I show it to my friends as much? Maybe not all of them. Would I show it to my parents? No. Would I show it to my kids? Definitely not. But maybe when they get older, or maybe to my friends who like that kind of things, I would show it to them. As we see time and time again, those who try to appeal to everyone, appeal to no one.
On June 28 2011 15:51 Belial88 wrote: The word fag and rape have connotations for gamers and his viewers, as well.
I personally enjoy when he says things like EZ MODE RAPED, or SUP NIGGA to Combat-Ex. It's probably the most prodding things you can say to someone online, as much as you can. I mean what, you think he should say "your stupid?" a bunch?
We know it has a history. This is a mature game, and we (most of us) understand that. We know the opponent is not homosexual or black, which is why it's so funny.
So when people like me watch his stream, it brings in lots of revenue. I believe I am helping e-sports by watching Destiny, because I think he has the appeal to the kind of audience SC2 is made for - over 17.
You are acting like simply not using racial slurs is some kind of huge deal. Nearly every show on TV manages to do it and attract many more adults than all of the StarCraft streams combined. The GSL also manages to attract many adults without using racial slurs. NASL, too. Most movies, as well. With the exception of one genre, most music seems to have no trouble with this, either. In fact, most forms of entertainment seem to be plenty mature and popular with adults without resorting to using these words.
It sounds to me that you want to limit my freedom, to be frank, and not to radicalize things. But I like when Destiny says such ridiculous things. I also watch TV shows on cable from HBO, where words like fag and nigger are CONSTANTLY used (The Wire, Sopranos were all homophobic, True Blood says lots of 'racial' slurs), which bring in much more money than The Office, so if you want to resort that argument, you lose. Hell, I believe the 'Best' movie a year or two ago was a sympathetic movie about a pedophile.
I mean your point of view is just ridiculous. You think because some people get offended, that that type of language shouldn't be used at all - essentially, all content should be geared toward a certain more 'acceptable' manner. But I strongly disagree, I feel the more content, the better, and people have the freedom to choose what they want to watch and support.
Personally, if the NASL and the GSL used racial slurs - or really, language like PWNED NEWB, not so much racial slurs - I know I would enjoy it more. How awesome would it be if Nestea wrote "RAPED" with creep tumors after the 4-1 Nestea vs Inca?
Now would I show it to my friends as much? Maybe not all of them. Would I show it to my parents? No. Would I show it to my kids? Definitely not. But maybe when they get older, or maybe to my friends who like that kind of things, I would show it to them. As we see time and time again, those who try to appeal to everyone, appeal to no one.
Oh, another thing: how did the Wire and the Sopranos use racial slurs? Did they use them flippantly as little jokes? Or did they present accurate and mature portrayals of racism? Using offensive words for cheap and tawdry laughs is very different.
Additionally,
those who try to appeal to everyone, appeal to no one.
If you read the last few pages, you can see that this has actually been a fairly well reasoned linguistical discussion about whether or not these words are racial or homophobic. There have been a few comments about the shoulds or should nots, but that hasn't been the main thrust of it. I think the discussion is significant because some people may just be unaware of what they are really saying.
Chris Rock had a bit once (as well as other comedians, and many others, I'm sure), where he talks about the use of the word nigger, and what it means, but basically the bit boiled down to this: There are black guys, and then there are niggers, and nobody likes a nigger. Basically, comparing the word "nigger" to "redneck" or any other low-class term.
Yeah, I have heard the Chris Rock one before but I don't think I have ever heard anyone use the word that way outside of a comedy routine. The common, day-to-day usage between two friends definitely does not really carry that kind of meaning with it.
Anyway, I don't think Chris Rock is really a great authority on contemporary linguistics.
On June 28 2011 10:38 badcnr wrote: [quote] So your saying using it in a different context doesnt change the meaning of word or does? Cause i am pretty sure you agreed that context does.... Your kind of changing everything you say to best fit your argument. Why not just say that you view the word like that then its not facts your pointing out just opinions.
I don't think I have ever said that context can't change the meaning of a word, have I? I certainly didn't mean to.
On June 28 2011 10:49 Belial88 wrote: [quote]
Why?
I don't know - I didn't start the conversation. People were already talking about before I got here.
On June 28 2011 11:47 Deindar wrote: I hate to bump this thread, but I want to kind of reiterate what some other people said. Saying the word nigger in a joking manner doesn't make you a racist. Saying it with the intent to disrespect and injure does. Can we all clearly see which one Destiny is?
Saying something racist doesn't mean you are racist but it doesn't you should say it, either.
So what are you trying to say? Cause if context can change the meaning of the word then i am pretty sure context is not racist so it works with every one. So then what you were saying is invalid. Context trumps the word. As long as its not used in a racist way and with respect.
Dictionary.com: the set of circumstances or facts that surround a particular event, situation, etc.
TheFreedictionary.com: the conditions and circumstances that are relevant to an event, fact, etc.
Define.com: the set of facts or circumstances that surround a situation or event;
Facts, circumstances, conditions. Come, on, man. Now you are just being silly.
On June 28 2011 13:50 Solarswordsman wrote:
On June 28 2011 11:53 bahl sofs tiil wrote: I don't think I have ever said that context can't change the meaning of a word, have I? I certainly didn't mean to.
Well, you're wrong. Not only does context change the meaning of a word, words actually have no meaning at all without context.
I'm a linguist, and I'd love to explain this myself, but Wikipedia does a fine job without being a large expenditure of my time.
I think you misread what I wrote.
"I don't think I have ever said that context can't change the meaning of a word, have I? I certainly didn't mean to."
Seriously. You have been proved wrong and wrong yet if i say anything you will change it to what ever you didnt mean it or say it like that. Several times. Words are not exclusive to race or gender or sexaul orientation.
Proved wrong about what? When? I haven't changed what I have been saying once.
You are getting really silly, now.
On June 28 2011 15:32 badcnr wrote:
On June 28 2011 15:25 bahl sofs tiil wrote: Not using slurs can hardly be compared to the teletubbies. Come on, now, don't be absurd.
NO but the point is that if you clear away any offensive language then thats how the shows or video games would be compared to. I can see how you get really offended by those words cause you are not good at reading the message the person is trying to get across.
You are acting like simply not using racial slurs is some kind of huge deal. Nearly every show on TV manages to do it and attract many more adults than all of the StarCraft streams combined. The GSL also manages to attract many adults without using racial slurs. NASL, too. Most movies, as well. With the exception of one genre, most music seems to have no trouble with this, either. In fact, most forms of entertainment seem to be plenty mature and popular with adults without resorting to using these words.
Funny.
Also, I never said I have gotten offended by anything.
You have changed things or said that we missed what your meaning. You even used a more racist comment judging french canadians and their views. You even said that non-verbal cues werent part of context yet then say that skin color is. You also understand that a word can be changed, even offensive words. So why is it wrong for a person use a word in a way that is not coming across to its viewers as racist? Or why is coming across as racist ? It shouldnt because that is not the context it is used in. You say punk gaming kids arent the ones who change the words well i dont know who you exactly think changes words but i am pretty sure they are involved too. Not using racial slurs is a good thing when they still are not being prejedice. If that is how you decide to be. But just because some one uses a racial slur in a non racist way doesnt make them wrong to do it or racist. The same with any offensive word.
I haven't changed anything. You have missed my meaning.
The thing I said about being from the French parts of Canada is because then English might not be your first language, which would explain why you kept missing my meaning. The part about the French and race was joke.
For nonverbal cues, I was under the impression that we were speaking about tone, facial expressions, body language, etc. I don't believe these things really fit into the "context" category.
Just because neither the speaker nor the audience realize the history and context behind a word that would make it racist or offensive does not mean that it is not. Again, language is collective to a society or a culture and the society and culture we are a part of still attaches these words to their history and, as I explained above, the way these words are being used quite firmly tethers them to their racist past, as well.
On June 28 2011 15:51 Belial88 wrote: It sounds to me that you want to limit my freedom
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
You seem to be confused on what I am discussing here. Go back to where I first started with this post. People said that these words do not have racial or prejudicial connotations in the way they were being used. These people were and are incorrect and I was informing them of this. I haven't given my opinion on Destiny or his stream or offensive language in entertainment at all. People attributing these different opinions and view to me only serves to demonstrate their lack of understanding for both what I say and the situation being discussed.
Yeah , but right now the only person who understands what you mean and the situation is you.
. Go back through and read the thread. Other people have understood me perfectly.
See darn i missed your meaning. Again. I did go back and skim only seen people who would blindly follow some one because he is against saying the n-word. Although it might be rare that not every one understands the history. I think plenty of people do. Obviously if enough people understand that when some one like destiny uses that word in a non racist way than clearly your wrong to think that it doesnt lose its racist meaning. You have changed things. You told me once that offensive words cannot lose their meaning , i followed up with then how do words like nerd and dork that at one time were a very offensive word then today not be considered offensive, and at times and to the right person can even be a compliment? Or did i miss that meaning too? So you can add skin colour but leave out the parts that you dont think are included. So when did the power lean on you to dictate what context means? Or are you the one who decides what can be added changed or used in what way? I can totally understand that this is your opinion. Which fine have it. To say a word is not right to say because its a racial(even in a non racist way), But a meaning can be changed either through multiple use in a word that changes its true meaning eventually, or through context, Or in some case's when expressing emotion the body language and tone. But its still wrong cause why? Because it has a history?
On June 28 2011 11:53 bahl sofs tiil wrote: [quote]
Yeah, I have heard the Chris Rock one before but I don't think I have ever heard anyone use the word that way outside of a comedy routine. The common, day-to-day usage between two friends definitely does not really carry that kind of meaning with it.
Anyway, I don't think Chris Rock is really a great authority on contemporary linguistics.
[quote]
I don't think I have ever said that context can't change the meaning of a word, have I? I certainly didn't mean to.
[quote]
I don't know - I didn't start the conversation. People were already talking about before I got here.
[quote]
Saying something racist doesn't mean you are racist but it doesn't you should say it, either.
So what are you trying to say? Cause if context can change the meaning of the word then i am pretty sure context is not racist so it works with every one. So then what you were saying is invalid. Context trumps the word. As long as its not used in a racist way and with respect.
Dictionary.com: the set of circumstances or facts that surround a particular event, situation, etc.
TheFreedictionary.com: the conditions and circumstances that are relevant to an event, fact, etc.
Define.com: the set of facts or circumstances that surround a situation or event;
Facts, circumstances, conditions. Come, on, man. Now you are just being silly.
On June 28 2011 13:50 Solarswordsman wrote:
On June 28 2011 11:53 bahl sofs tiil wrote: I don't think I have ever said that context can't change the meaning of a word, have I? I certainly didn't mean to.
Well, you're wrong. Not only does context change the meaning of a word, words actually have no meaning at all without context.
I'm a linguist, and I'd love to explain this myself, but Wikipedia does a fine job without being a large expenditure of my time.
I think you misread what I wrote.
"I don't think I have ever said that context can't change the meaning of a word, have I? I certainly didn't mean to."
Seriously. You have been proved wrong and wrong yet if i say anything you will change it to what ever you didnt mean it or say it like that. Several times. Words are not exclusive to race or gender or sexaul orientation.
Proved wrong about what? When? I haven't changed what I have been saying once.
You are getting really silly, now.
On June 28 2011 15:32 badcnr wrote:
On June 28 2011 15:25 bahl sofs tiil wrote: Not using slurs can hardly be compared to the teletubbies. Come on, now, don't be absurd.
NO but the point is that if you clear away any offensive language then thats how the shows or video games would be compared to. I can see how you get really offended by those words cause you are not good at reading the message the person is trying to get across.
You are acting like simply not using racial slurs is some kind of huge deal. Nearly every show on TV manages to do it and attract many more adults than all of the StarCraft streams combined. The GSL also manages to attract many adults without using racial slurs. NASL, too. Most movies, as well. With the exception of one genre, most music seems to have no trouble with this, either. In fact, most forms of entertainment seem to be plenty mature and popular with adults without resorting to using these words.
Funny.
Also, I never said I have gotten offended by anything.
You have changed things or said that we missed what your meaning. You even used a more racist comment judging french canadians and their views. You even said that non-verbal cues werent part of context yet then say that skin color is. You also understand that a word can be changed, even offensive words. So why is it wrong for a person use a word in a way that is not coming across to its viewers as racist? Or why is coming across as racist ? It shouldnt because that is not the context it is used in. You say punk gaming kids arent the ones who change the words well i dont know who you exactly think changes words but i am pretty sure they are involved too. Not using racial slurs is a good thing when they still are not being prejedice. If that is how you decide to be. But just because some one uses a racial slur in a non racist way doesnt make them wrong to do it or racist. The same with any offensive word.
I haven't changed anything. You have missed my meaning.
The thing I said about being from the French parts of Canada is because then English might not be your first language, which would explain why you kept missing my meaning. The part about the French and race was joke.
For nonverbal cues, I was under the impression that we were speaking about tone, facial expressions, body language, etc. I don't believe these things really fit into the "context" category.
Just because neither the speaker nor the audience realize the history and context behind a word that would make it racist or offensive does not mean that it is not. Again, language is collective to a society or a culture and the society and culture we are a part of still attaches these words to their history and, as I explained above, the way these words are being used quite firmly tethers them to their racist past, as well.
I never called anyone racist.
On June 28 2011 16:07 Belial88 wrote:
I haven't given my opinion on Destiny or his stream or offensive language in entertainment at all.
THEN WHY ARE YOU POSTING HERE LOL???
Read the thread. The discussion has shifted since post 1.
On June 28 2011 16:01 badcnr wrote:
On June 28 2011 15:58 bahl sofs tiil wrote:
On June 28 2011 15:51 Belial88 wrote: It sounds to me that you want to limit my freedom
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
You seem to be confused on what I am discussing here. Go back to where I first started with this post. People said that these words do not have racial or prejudicial connotations in the way they were being used. These people were and are incorrect and I was informing them of this. I haven't given my opinion on Destiny or his stream or offensive language in entertainment at all. People attributing these different opinions and view to me only serves to demonstrate their lack of understanding for both what I say and the situation being discussed.
Yeah , but right now the only person who understands what you mean and the situation is you.
. Go back through and read the thread. Other people have understood me perfectly.
See darn i missed your meaning. Again. I did go back and skim only seen people who would blindly follow some one because he is against saying the n-word. Although it might be rare that not every one understands the history. I think plenty of people do. Obviously if enough people understand that when some one like destiny uses that word in a non racist way than clearly your wrong to think that it doesnt lose its racist meaning. You have changed things.
You told me once that offensive words cannot lose their meaning
Where do you think I said that?
So you can add skin colour but leave out the parts that you dont think are included. So when did the power lean on you to dictate what context means? Or are you the one who decides what can be added changed or used in what way?
I'm going to have to agree with Destiny here and say that those things fall under the style of diction and not context.
I can totally understand that this is your opinion. Which fine have it. To say a word is not right to say because its a racial(even in a non racist way), But a meaning can be changed either through multiple use in a word that changes its true meaning eventually, or through context, Or in some case's when expressing emotion the body language and tone. But its still wrong cause why? Because it has a history?
Man, this is just rehashing the same things. Words can change meaning, this one has not and the way it is being used is still very racial. If you want an explanation, read the posts where I've already explained it.
clearly. yet i was not really responding to you post now was i ? I was more stating that the guy seems to give the you dont understand what i was meaning but has failed clearly express his view
Sorry, quoted wrong reply. I know.
I wouldn't want to appeal to you then
Oh, another thing: how did the Wire and the Sopranos use racial slurs? Did they use them flippantly as little jokes? Or did they present accurate and mature portrayals of racism? Using offensive words for cheap and tawdry laughs is very different.
Sure. Everyone has different tastes. What can I say, I like The Sopranos, I liked The Wire, I liked Breaking Bad. The charactesr in The Sopranos were very homophobic, and both in the wire and sopranos there is racism from the main characters. Sometimes they said funny things that were quite offensive. I mean you know so much from watching Destiny's stream right? I'd assume you'd know these shows even without watching them too.
If you read the last few pages, you can see that this has actually been a fairly well reasoned linguistical discussion about whether or not these words are racial or homophobic.
We have. And the only reasoned linguistic conversation were replies against you.
You aren't making a point, you aren't talking about Destiny. Why are you still posting here? We get it, using racist words is hurtful. To you. Not to everyone else.
I find it funny when Destiny says the word rape or fag. That's just my taste. Apparently, a lot of other people like it too when some 4 gating Protoss or cannon rusher is called a fag, and then 'raped'. Obviously, context means a lot. And in these contexts, it's hilarious. But that's just me. We get it's not you. Great.
On June 28 2011 17:13 Belial88 wrote: I liked The Wire,
Me, too!
We have. And the only reasoned linguistic conversation were replies against you.
Oh, when I said "we" I meant the people who were actually contributing to the conversation. You're cute though!
You aren't making a point, you aren't talking about Destiny. Why are you still posting here? We get it, using racist words is hurtful. To you. Not to everyone else.
I find it funny when Destiny says the word rape or fag. That's just my taste. Apparently, a lot of other people like it too when some 4 gating Protoss or cannon rusher is called a fag, and then 'raped'. Obviously, context means a lot. And in these contexts, it's hilarious. But that's just me. We get it's not you. Great.
It is funny because I have never said I don't find this sort of thing or that I am offended by it, yet people continue to attribute these things to me. Funny.
Anyway, you are really, like, bringing down the whole room, man. If you just want to mock each other, I guess we could continue in private messages. I don't why we would, but if you really feel like it, I s'pose I could find some time just for you, big boy.
Here, I will try and simplify this down for you with a video:
Now, the origin they give for the word "faggot" isn't actually accurate, but the things that happen around that little falsehood are what are important. A bunch of guys are using a word very lightly. They find out that the word actually has some dark meanings (pay more attention to the part about "guys having the word screamed at them while they are beaten"). They recognize and acknowledge these facts, but they decide to continue using the word, anyway, because it is still funny.
That is all I am trying to get across and all I have been trying to get across. For the record and to stop this repetitive distraction, I am not offended by these words (straight, white, male) and, though I don't think I have said "nigger" or "faggot" or "rape" in this context since high school, I find guys like Louis CK hilarious. However, these words do have dark, hateful meanings behind them. If you want to use them anyway in the name of humor, that is your prerogative but don't try to downplay what they mean and rationalize their meaning away. Either accept and own up to their meanings and your own apathy towards them or stop saying these words.
EPT
