EPTOn June 29 2011 15:55 Defacer wrote:
1) The fact that there are other ethnic slurs, or that commonplace words can be used as ethic slurs, does not disprove his argument.
2) We really should take this discussion someplace else. I would be happy to continue this discussion in a more appropriate thread, and quite frankly, I'm late to this party.
It's a little unfair for Destiny to be associated with the word 'nigger' and it's discussion for the rest of his career.
Show nested quote +
On June 29 2011 15:34 badcnr wrote:
I agree i feel bad for destiny for ignorant people not understanding what they are talking about. Yes i use information to provide the facts for me. Facts speaker louder than a people saying it is as it is with out some actual backing. Look at the stuff i provided and read it. For Some reason places like wikipedia disprove it does it make it true no. But look at the other ethnic slurs take the word oreo can you divorce the race from that slur given its usage? Or what about White nigger can you do it with that word? You can take the race away from up if you using it in a context that is not directed at that race. Given the context the race could stay , or it could not. Is it really that hard of a concept ?
Your right it has been thoughtful if it is given his opinion but its not he has already stated that so other than that he has not really provided anything that i have seen other than what he deems is true. Its easy enough for some one say it true, its a different story when you have to back up what you say. which he has not
On June 29 2011 15:21 Defacer wrote:
You're trying to use a remedial source like Wikipedia to score superficial, easy points. That's not something to be proud of; that's lazy.
Other posters have been backpedalling, repeatedly changing or altering their position.
He's trying to have a thoughtful, challenging discussion of the word Nigger. Even though it can be interpreted differently in different contexts, he has convincingly argued that you can't divorce race from it's meaning, regardless of context. Like you yourself implied, if the word weren't racially-charged, white people wouldn't fetishize it. This is a critical point that his opponents would have never considered or conceded if he wasn't so persistent.
TLDR; bahl sofs tiil is victorious.
And to answer the question, "What is his point?" ... He obviously enjoys arguing. And not losing.
Edit: We should probably stop derailing this thread. I feel bad for Destiny now.
On June 29 2011 14:27 badcnr wrote:
Ummm how did he fight valiantly and win. The person never brought one peice of evidence but if you want to wikipedia all the things he claim are true its quite easy to see that ,cearly, he has no case. If its an opinion he expressed than he has that right but he claims it is not with no evidence and substanisal evidence to prove him wrong ummm pretty sure he is wrong.
On June 29 2011 14:23 Defacer wrote:
Can I just commend you for arguing so valiantly?
You won this debate. Everyone else is backpedalling. I recommend you stop before they drive you bat-shit insane.
(And no, I'm not being sarcastic. Kudos.)
On June 29 2011 09:11 bahl sofs tiil wrote:
Throughout this entire discussion, people have been saying that if you say the work jokingly, or if you don't genuinely believe in the racist viewpoints they convey, that the words lose their racist meanings. This is untrue. The pejorative context of these words, even in joking, is exclusively derived from their hateful past. That is all that I have been saying this entire time.
On June 29 2011 06:00 Belial88 wrote:
^lol
When did I, or anyone else, or Destiny, downplayed what they mean or rationalize their meaning away? We are well aware that in certain contexts, these words are harmful, and can bring up pains and troubles for people that they themselves are powerless to have avoided.
So I ask again - what is your point? Are you trying to say Destiny is bad for e-sports? Are you not trying to say he offends you but he offends others? I've been following what you've said, and you keep repeating that these words have a dreadful history behind them. Yes, I'm pretty sure everyone is aware of that or they wouldn't find it so funny when Destiny said them.
And I'm pretty certain Destiny has never used these words in a hateful way, but only to raise a discussion about the words in the exact same way we are - but I don't want to focus the argument on that because first off, I don't know that for sure, I haven't watched his stream every single minute, and secondly, I don't think it matters if he has because everyone knows he isn't racist, and everyone already says he is insensitive and immature - and personally I don't care if he is insensitive and immature.
^lol
. However, these words do have dark, hateful meanings behind them. If you want to use them anyway in the name of humor, that is your prerogative but don't try to downplay what they mean and rationalize their meaning away.
When did I, or anyone else, or Destiny, downplayed what they mean or rationalize their meaning away? We are well aware that in certain contexts, these words are harmful, and can bring up pains and troubles for people that they themselves are powerless to have avoided.
So I ask again - what is your point? Are you trying to say Destiny is bad for e-sports? Are you not trying to say he offends you but he offends others? I've been following what you've said, and you keep repeating that these words have a dreadful history behind them. Yes, I'm pretty sure everyone is aware of that or they wouldn't find it so funny when Destiny said them.
And I'm pretty certain Destiny has never used these words in a hateful way, but only to raise a discussion about the words in the exact same way we are - but I don't want to focus the argument on that because first off, I don't know that for sure, I haven't watched his stream every single minute, and secondly, I don't think it matters if he has because everyone knows he isn't racist, and everyone already says he is insensitive and immature - and personally I don't care if he is insensitive and immature.
Throughout this entire discussion, people have been saying that if you say the work jokingly, or if you don't genuinely believe in the racist viewpoints they convey, that the words lose their racist meanings. This is untrue. The pejorative context of these words, even in joking, is exclusively derived from their hateful past. That is all that I have been saying this entire time.
Can I just commend you for arguing so valiantly?
You won this debate. Everyone else is backpedalling. I recommend you stop before they drive you bat-shit insane.
(And no, I'm not being sarcastic. Kudos.)
Ummm how did he fight valiantly and win. The person never brought one peice of evidence but if you want to wikipedia all the things he claim are true its quite easy to see that ,cearly, he has no case. If its an opinion he expressed than he has that right but he claims it is not with no evidence and substanisal evidence to prove him wrong ummm pretty sure he is wrong.
You're trying to use a remedial source like Wikipedia to score superficial, easy points. That's not something to be proud of; that's lazy.
Other posters have been backpedalling, repeatedly changing or altering their position.
He's trying to have a thoughtful, challenging discussion of the word Nigger. Even though it can be interpreted differently in different contexts, he has convincingly argued that you can't divorce race from it's meaning, regardless of context. Like you yourself implied, if the word weren't racially-charged, white people wouldn't fetishize it. This is a critical point that his opponents would have never considered or conceded if he wasn't so persistent.
TLDR; bahl sofs tiil is victorious.
And to answer the question, "What is his point?" ... He obviously enjoys arguing. And not losing.
Edit: We should probably stop derailing this thread. I feel bad for Destiny now.
I agree i feel bad for destiny for ignorant people not understanding what they are talking about. Yes i use information to provide the facts for me. Facts speaker louder than a people saying it is as it is with out some actual backing. Look at the stuff i provided and read it. For Some reason places like wikipedia disprove it does it make it true no. But look at the other ethnic slurs take the word oreo can you divorce the race from that slur given its usage? Or what about White nigger can you do it with that word? You can take the race away from up if you using it in a context that is not directed at that race. Given the context the race could stay , or it could not. Is it really that hard of a concept ?
Your right it has been thoughtful if it is given his opinion but its not he has already stated that so other than that he has not really provided anything that i have seen other than what he deems is true. Its easy enough for some one say it true, its a different story when you have to back up what you say. which he has not
1) The fact that there are other ethnic slurs, or that commonplace words can be used as ethic slurs, does not disprove his argument.
2) We really should take this discussion someplace else. I would be happy to continue this discussion in a more appropriate thread, and quite frankly, I'm late to this party.
It's a little unfair for Destiny to be associated with the word 'nigger' and it's discussion for the rest of his career.
I will agree find a another place to chat about this, but after this i heading to bed but give me a place and i will do my best to post there
