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On December 28 2011 23:38 hyperknight wrote:
1) China (Xiaot, Xigua, Lovecd, Lovett, F91... this list is far too good to be compared with any other country)
2) Sweden (Thorzain, Naniwa, Morrow, Sase, Sjow, Naugrim, Lalush, Merz, Bischu)
3) Ukraine (Kas, Dimaga, Whitera, Strelok, HappyZerg, Bly)
Definitely in this order. Chinese players, while few are far too skilled to be beaten by any european/american lineup. Sweden players definitely come second with powerhouses like morrow/sase/thorzain/naniwa. After that my pick would go to the eastern europeaners like kas, dimaga, whitera, strelok.
france is possibly #4 with adelscott/stephano/tod/moman/sarens/carn.
I'm no expert on the Chinese scene but a lot of the Swedish players have proved they can go toe to toe with Koreans, haven't seen the Chinese apart from xigua and loner (back in the day) do that.
My top 5 would be
1) Sweden
2) Ukraine
3) China
4) Germany
5) Poland
If you're including Huk and Select as American then i would put them USA above Poland but i find it pretty difficult to separate USA/Canada/France/Poland.
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On December 29 2011 00:01 Batch wrote:
We seriously need a nations cup.
I will give the format away for free!
* Played online to make as many players as possible be able to play.
* Tournament stretch over a month which gives sponsors a lot of exposure.
* Single elimination bracket.
* Each game day two countries battle it out with 7 BO3 to decide who is the best.
* The player picking the map also picks the server to use.
* Price money needed to bring the best players should be about $11.900 (1:st $7000, 2:nd $3500, 3:rd $1400).
* Casted live from replays to make it as easy as possible to schedule the games.
Let it happen!
Something similar is starting soon, with the [ESL] Country Championship 2012!
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=297273
I think Sweden, Ukraine and Poland are the powerhouses. Russia, Germany, France follow. Maybe China should be somewhere in there, too, but I haven't seen chinese players very often. Canada, too, I guess.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50632 Posts
On December 29 2011 00:01 Batch wrote:
We seriously need a nations cup.
I will give the format away for free!
* Played online to make as many players as possible be able to play.
* Tournament stretch over a month which gives sponsors a lot of exposure.
* Single elimination bracket.
* Each game day two countries battle it out with 7 BO3 to decide who is the best.
* The player picking the map also picks the server to use.
* Price money needed to bring the best players should be about $11.900 (1:st $7000, 2:nd $3500, 3:rd $1400).
* Casted live from replays to make it as easy as possible to schedule the games.
Let it happen!
I'm surprised theres no nation wars for SC2 yet.
nation wars was one of the best things ever.
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Germany (i think the nation with the most gm's and an incredible roster of players in EAS and EPS)
Ukraine (a couple of veeeery good players)
Sweden (with germany the best foreign nation. lots of good players)
US (not as good as the other but they have sooooo many player so there are a couple of good ones to 
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On December 29 2011 00:47 StarVe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2011 00:01 Batch wrote:
We seriously need a nations cup.
I will give the format away for free!
* Played online to make as many players as possible be able to play.
* Tournament stretch over a month which gives sponsors a lot of exposure.
* Single elimination bracket.
* Each game day two countries battle it out with 7 BO3 to decide who is the best.
* The player picking the map also picks the server to use.
* Price money needed to bring the best players should be about $11.900 (1:st $7000, 2:nd $3500, 3:rd $1400).
* Casted live from replays to make it as easy as possible to schedule the games.
Let it happen! Something similar is starting soon! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=297273
Only problem is Korea/Sweden/China is missing! Its like the special olympics! jkjk
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lol sweden with germany the best foreign nation! haha! , lets go lets go ! top4 of the online section into Lan mode. lets show everyone how superior swe is :X
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My Top 5 is :
Ukraine
Sweden
Germany
France
US
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People are forgetting Canada, who I'd take over the US.
It should go
South Korea
Sweden
Ukraine
Canada/Germany
USA
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On December 29 2011 00:52 FooDSoldOne wrote:Germany (i think the nation with the most gm's and an incredible roster of players in EAS and EPS) Ukraine (a couple of veeeery good players) Sweden (with germany the best foreign nation. lots of good players) US (not as good as the other but they have sooooo many player so there are a couple of good ones to
Do I understand you correct that you are saying that Germany is the best foreign nation with Sweden?
I would like to hear your reasoning for this. There must be a very special reason or you are not very well informed about the international SC 2 scene (by the way, who cares about EAS/EPS?).
Just to provide you with some facts: Since the release of SC II not a single german player has placed #1 or #2 in a Premier Tournament (listed on Liquidpedia) and even in the section of Major Tournaments, there are few winnings when you cut out EPS, which should be cut out, because it's almost german-exclusive.
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I'm surprised Germany is so high up the list. Maybe I don't know well enough, but whom is qualified to be in their star lineup other than TLO, darkforce, goody, hasu?
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with IdrA, Select, HuK and stephano i think America has the best line up aside from korea
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On December 29 2011 01:00 Jombozeus wrote:
I'm surprised Germany is so high up the list. Maybe I don't know well enough, but whom is qualified to be in their star lineup other than TLO, darkforce, goody, hasu?
You forgot Socke, but I agree that Germany doesn't belong at the top.
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On December 29 2011 01:02 Forikorder wrote:
with IdrA, Select, HuK and stephano i think America has the best line up aside from korea
you forgot day9, apparently he is a super ladder gosu...
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United Kingdom10823 Posts
On December 29 2011 01:00 Jombozeus wrote:
I'm surprised Germany is so high up the list. Maybe I don't know well enough, but whom is qualified to be in their star lineup other than TLO, darkforce, goody, hasu?
Socke deserves mention in there as well. Mondragon too, to a point
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So lets do this with a point system. I know this doesn't make the whole thing any less subjective, but I'm bored right now I don't know the Chinese players well enough so I won't put them in the equation.
A+: Top foreigner able to beat almost every top Korean in a Bo3 = 5 points
A: Still one of the best foreigners, just a step away from A+ = 3 points
B+: Player between A and B = 2,5 points
B: Very strong player that can win online cups but no big lans = 2 points
C+: Player between B and C = 1,5 points
C: Players with great potential that haven't delivered results yet or players that used to be higher but are currently in a little slump = 1 point
Sweden: Naniwa A+, SaSe A, ThorZain A, MorroW B+, SjoW B, Bischu B, hayprO B, Merz C+, Jinro C+, Seiplo C, Jimpo C, LaLush C, Naugrim C = 26,5
Canada: HuK A+, Kiwikaki B+, SLush B, TT1 C+, Drewbie C+, dde C, Ostojiy C = 14,5
USA: Idra A, Sheth B+, qxc C+, Gatored C+,Tyler C, Pokebunny C Machine C, iNcontroL C, KawaiiRice C, Painuser C = 14,5
Ukraine: White-Ra A, Dimaga A, Kas A, Strelok B+, Bly C+, HappyZerg C = 14
Germany HasuObs B+, Socke B+, GoOdy B+, TLO B, Darkforce C+, XlorD C+, Mondragon C = 13,5
France: Stephano A+, ToD B+, SarenS C+, Adelscott C+, MoMan C 11,5
Poland: Nerchio A, Mana A, Tarson B+, DieStar C, Paranoid C =10,5
Russia: BratOk B+, Happy B, Titan C, Pomi C, Abver C, LiveZerg C, HasHe C = 9,5
Netherlands: Ret A, Grubby B+, DaBoO C = 6,5
UK: DeMusliM A, BlinG C+, Pureball C = 5,5
Finland: Elfi B+, Welmu C+, Naama C+ ,Satiini C = 5,5
Australia: mOOnGlaDe B, Iaguz C+, tgun C = 4,5
Romania: Nightend B, Deathangel C+ = 3,5
Peru: Fenix B, CatZ C = 3
Serbia: Beastyqt B+ =2,5
Chile: KiLLeR B+ = 2,5
Italy: Cloud B = 2
Denmark: BabyKnight C, Ciara C = 2
Spain: Lucifron C+ = 1,5
Belarus: LoWeLy C+ = 1,5
Israel: Osho C+ =1,5
Norway: Snute = 1,5
Switzerland: biGs C = 1
Belgium: Orly C = 1
I'm sure I missed some players and keep in mind the ranking is very subjective . Also the ranking system itself doesn't necessarily provide the beste Sc2 nations besides Korea and China. Although I think it's quite safe to say it's Sweden no matter how you look at it
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Ok so most people still say Sweden.
Again, why why Sweden? Finland, Norway and Denmark are all very simmilar countries to Sweden, where are their players? Seems like nobody knows. Its not like they got internet 10 years after sweden.
And how come Germany isnt more domimant?
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I would tend to agree with majority of that ranking system.
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On December 29 2011 00:47 CallousCarter wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2011 23:38 hyperknight wrote:
1) China (Xiaot, Xigua, Lovecd, Lovett, F91... this list is far too good to be compared with any other country)
2) Sweden (Thorzain, Naniwa, Morrow, Sase, Sjow, Naugrim, Lalush, Merz, Bischu)
3) Ukraine (Kas, Dimaga, Whitera, Strelok, HappyZerg, Bly)
Definitely in this order. Chinese players, while few are far too skilled to be beaten by any european/american lineup. Sweden players definitely come second with powerhouses like morrow/sase/thorzain/naniwa. After that my pick would go to the eastern europeaners like kas, dimaga, whitera, strelok.
france is possibly #4 with adelscott/stephano/tod/moman/sarens/carn. I'm no expert on the Chinese scene but a lot of the Swedish players have proved they can go toe to toe with Koreans, haven't seen the Chinese apart from xigua and loner (back in the day) do that. My top 5 would be 1) Sweden 2) Ukraine 3) China 4) Germany 5) Poland If you're including Huk and Select as American then i would put them USA above Poland but i find it pretty difficult to separate USA/Canada/France/Poland.
No way Swedish and Ukrainian players are as good as Chinese. The world's not heard of most Chinese players because of how closed that community is and also because most pple focus only on Korea. F91/Xigua/Xiaot are probably the only know Chinese names. After seeing some random practice replays of Chinese players, I can very comfortably say they're as good if not better than a lot of the Korean names (not MVP/MMA etc but definitely the Clides/Supernovas etc of the Korean scene).
Th way things are going remind me very much of what happened in warcraft 3 - everyone focused solely on Korea. foreigners went to Korea to compete and get better. Korean strategies got learnt and emulated and revised upon by foreigners who took them abroad after team collaborations (such as EG-Slayers/TL-oGs). Korean were extremely strong early in WC3 due to team houses and replays not being released (hence practice strategies or builds not being disclosed), but with the influx of foreigners into team houses learning all this stuff, everything became public once they finished training/when they went back to their home countries and had foreign teams building team houses in their foreign countries.
Amongst all this mess, China, which experiences zero lag to the Korean servers remained secluded, while having all their own team houses and being secluded from the rest of the Korean/foreign teams. And that lead to China coming out ahead - of course other factors such as how insanely hardworking Chinese players generally are etc. But the current scenario reminds me of wc3's early days. The shift of power in tournament results went from Korea -> Korea/EU -> China -> the legendary Moon (lol).
I cant wait for the Chinese team to enter the GSL/GTSL in 2012's second season. Hopefully we will see China bursting onto the sc2 scene in 2012 =) I personally cannot wait as this is nothing but good news for fans/viewers.
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EPT
