EPTBut with the foreigner SC2 scene growing by leaps and bounds, a legitimate question arises:
Which foreigner nation can field the best pro lineup?
Which Non-Korea Nation has the best pro lineup?
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
But with the foreigner SC2 scene growing by leaps and bounds, a legitimate question arises: Which foreigner nation can field the best pro lineup? | ||
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
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VoirDire
Sweden1923 Posts
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Nidoa
Canada239 Posts
EDIT and i forgot Ukraine. that's one beastly lineup too. | ||
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Ulfsark
United States958 Posts
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foaming monkey
Canada25 Posts
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kusu
Sweden440 Posts
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Kentakky
Sweden1272 Posts
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phisku
Belgium864 Posts
 Sweden followed by Ukraine. | ||
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Horse...falcon
United States1851 Posts
WhiteRa, Dimaga, Strelok, Kas Sweden's probably the winner Morrow, Jinro, Thorzain, Naniwa, Sjow Canada Huk, Kiwikaki, TT1, Drewbie, lots of others Germany TLO, Hasuobs, Darkforce, Socke | ||
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Keype
Sweden455 Posts
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m3rciless
United States1476 Posts
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Pro_pane
United States7 Posts
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R0YAL
United States1768 Posts
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alepov
Netherlands1132 Posts
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.Enigma.
Sweden1461 Posts
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ZidaneTribal
United States2800 Posts
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
Adelscott, Stephano, Moman, Song, Sarens would make quite an ace team... EDIT : I think Sweden is first, but that France is underrated. We could add Carn, Soju, and Aures. | ||
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Al Bundy
7257 Posts
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johlar
Sweden165 Posts
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Bensio
United Kingdom621 Posts
On May 09 2011 04:02 mr_tolkien wrote: Nobody thinks France is quite up there ? Adelscott, Stephano, Moman, Song, Sarens would make quite an ace team... Not really  | ||
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thirnaz
Sweden876 Posts
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GiftPflanZe
Germany623 Posts
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Morale
Sweden1010 Posts
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Bibbit
Canada5377 Posts
I would have to agree though, theyre pretty monstrous. Ukraine/Canada/US/Germany are also very strong but Sweden is terrifying. | ||
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SuperStyle
United States976 Posts
On May 09 2011 04:02 mr_tolkien wrote: Nobody thinks France is quite up there ? Adelscott, Stephano, Moman, Song, Sarens would make quite an ace team... No one is saying France is bad, but they are not the best, which this thread asks for. | ||
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Legend`
Canada381 Posts
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Dattish
Sweden6297 Posts
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Blacktion
United Kingdom1148 Posts
Then id say theres a reasonable gap then the next 3: Germany Canada USA EDIT: Typos | ||
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JohnnyBlaze420
Australia814 Posts
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McBrungus
United States265 Posts
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LolitsPing
United States285 Posts
Ukraine comes pretty close with White-Ra, Kas, DiMaga (oh god), and Strelok | ||
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Carras
Argentina860 Posts
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Eleaven
772 Posts
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isleyofthenorth
Austria894 Posts
On May 09 2011 04:02 mr_tolkien wrote: Nobody thinks France is quite up there ? Adelscott, Stephano, Moman, Song, Sarens would make quite an ace team... No thats not up there. i havent even heard of stephano and song (prolly because im noob  ) | ||
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Severus_
759 Posts
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Hazuc
Canada471 Posts
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StutteR
United States1903 Posts
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Nightrage
Greece212 Posts
I'd go for Ukraine personally but Sweden has a very strong line up. | ||
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StorM__
Germany118 Posts
germany(hasuobs,socke,darkforce,goody,tlo), usa(idra,sheth,qxc,tyler and many others) canada(kiwikaki, huk, slush) could take a third place in a few month china will take first easily though(at least i expect them to get really strong) | ||
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PeaNuT_T
Sweden326 Posts
I would have to say USA second with all the top players they house. | ||
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act.hero
United States205 Posts
I also consider SeleCT American, because he lives here, and is the only Korean in the world that can speak fluent english. | ||
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kratos-23
303 Posts
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dLKnighT
Canada735 Posts
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duk3
United States807 Posts
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ruggedshrimp
Canada25 Posts
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HQuality
2682 Posts
other countries waaaaaaay behind | ||
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SuperStyle
United States976 Posts
On May 09 2011 04:14 act.hero wrote: I'd say Sweden and USA, Canada and Ukraine after. I also consider SeleCT American, because he lives here, and is the only Korean in the world that can speak fluent english. http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players/1825_SeleCT Im pretty sure thats Korean flag, and he also said that he considers himself a Korean. | ||
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gillon
Sweden1578 Posts
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Guthix
United States209 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + jk, US, Sweden, Germany, Ukraine are all good. | ||
Liquid`EliGE
United States527 Posts
I'd say Ukraine | ||
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Grezzz
United Kingdom78 Posts
In terms of player-skill per population, it's definately Sweden and Ukraine. Germany has to be fairly close after. | ||
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KiLL_ORdeR
United States1518 Posts
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Casablancas
Denmark145 Posts
On May 09 2011 04:00 Horse...falcon wrote: Ukraine's pretty beastly. WhiteRa, Dimaga, Strelok, Kas Sweden's probably the winner Morrow, Jinro, Thorzain, Naniwa, Sjow Canada Huk, Kiwikaki, TT1, Drewbie, lots of others Germany TLO, Hasuobs, Darkforce, Socke I agree with this, although I dont know why Drewbie is mentioned with the rest of these players. | ||
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Bourneq
Sweden800 Posts
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
Probably the US, not because it has the best players, but because it has the largest population of the sc2 playing nations. You have to consider that IdrA can probably take out any non-US player, and there's plenty of other decent-ish US players to back him up. ? Jinro beat IdrA, and numerous other foreigners as well. Personally, I'd say Sweden first, then Ukraine, then USA/Canada/Germany are roughly on the same tier | ||
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SpiZe
Canada3640 Posts
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Casablancas
Denmark145 Posts
On May 09 2011 04:18 Grezzz wrote: Probably the US, not because it has the best players, but because it has the largest population of the sc2 playing nations. You have to consider that IdrA can probably take out any non-US player, and there's plenty of other decent-ish US players to back him up. In terms of player-skill per population, it's definately Sweden and Ukraine. Germany has to be fairly close after. So the World Cup in football shouldn´t be decided by the best players, but the nation that has the most players? Quality>Quantity imo. | ||
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Bergys
Sweden337 Posts
On May 09 2011 04:18 Grezzz wrote: Probably the US, not because it has the best players, but because it has the largest population of the sc2 playing nations. You have to consider that IdrA can probably take out any non-US player, and there's plenty of other decent-ish US players to back him up. In terms of player-skill per population, it's definately Sweden and Ukraine. Germany has to be fairly close after. What does population have to do with anything? It's not like it's going to be the 200 best players in each country competing, you'd have to choose the 7 best or something. The US pretty much only has idra (not counting select), and I'd say Naniwa, Jinro, Thorzain are at the very least on the same level. I'd go with Ukraine if it was a smaller tournament, like 4 players from each nation and sweden if it was 7ish. | ||
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1Eris1
United States5797 Posts
I'd say Sweden, Ukraine, USA, Germany, Canada for a pro league format. For winners league, USA, Sweden, Ukraine, Canada, Germany | ||
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Chaosvuistje
Netherlands2581 Posts
But sweden comes at a honourable and close second. | ||
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Stenstyren
Sweden619 Posts
On May 09 2011 04:18 Grezzz wrote: Probably the US, not because it has the best players, but because it has the largest population of the sc2 playing nations. You have to consider that IdrA can probably take out any non-US player, and there's plenty of other decent-ish US players to back him up. In terms of player-skill per population, it's definately Sweden and Ukraine. Germany has to be fairly close after. What does population size have to do with anything? USA has less players performing than Ukraine and Sweden. Idra can most certainly not beat any non-US player, in fact, his toughest opponents are non-us players (WhiteRa, Jinro, Naniwa to name a few). | ||
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aLuLz
Germany175 Posts
thorzain, naniwa, jinro, morrow, sjow, bischu, lalush, jimpo and many many many other very good players. Canada huk, kiwikaki, tt1 ("teeteewon" - whitera), fenix, dde, slush, stalife mabye North America/Germany. NA: Idra, moonan, sheth, tyler, kawaiirice, gositerran, etc.. Ger: TLO, hasuobs, socke, goody, darkforce, inso, mondi etc Ukraine: Whitera, kas, dimaga, strelok (, underdark, ukrainestar) The most noticeable foreign coutries. France and poland also not bad, but not that good | ||
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FenneK
France1231 Posts
On May 09 2011 04:02 mr_tolkien wrote: Nobody thinks France is quite up there ? Adelscott, Stephano, Moman, Song, Sarens would make quite an ace team... A nice thought, but none of those players match up to the likes of Thorzain, Jinro, Morrow, Naniwa etc So yeah I'm saying Sweden, then Ukraine, then Germany, then Canada. | ||
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Gatsbi
United States1134 Posts
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sereniity
Sweden1159 Posts
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Overpowered
Czech Republic764 Posts
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RyanRushia
United States2748 Posts
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SuperStyle
United States976 Posts
On May 09 2011 04:29 1Eris1 wrote: Don't really think theres currently a player that could beat IdrA in a bo5 atm, but considering for the U.S it's basically him and (unless you count Select) a few slightly lower players (Tyler, QXC, etc) I'd say Sweden, Ukraine, USA, Germany, Canada for a pro league format. For winners league, USA, Sweden, Ukraine, Canada, Germany 2 words: Naniwa | ||
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5ukkub
Poland507 Posts
Ukraine and Germany takes second. Then i would say USA maybe? I'm sad that nobody mentioned Poland with MaNa, Tarson, Nerchio, Diestar, Tefel, Slider, ParanOid, Dreiven but probably i'm just biased ^^ | ||
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act.hero
United States205 Posts
Sweden: SjoW / Naniwa / Morrow Ukraine: Kas / WhiteRa / Dimaga Germany: Goody / HasuObs / Darkforce France: Adelscott / ? / Moman Canada (Root lol): Drewbie / Kiwikaki / Slush USA: SeleCT (Qxc? if you don't count select) / Incontrol / IdrA Anyone else? | ||
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mdma-_-
Nauru1213 Posts
lovecd, lovett, xiaot, infi and loner :D they will be surely with ukraine, canada, germany or sweden as soon as they start joining more international events. | ||
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fortheGG
United Kingdom1002 Posts
regardless of format imo | ||
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bellhop
United States165 Posts
I think people tend to underestimate USA players, but still Sweden and Ukraine would dominate any format. In regards to France's team, Adelescott and Stephano are the only two that come to mind as internationally known players. | ||
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Dattish
Sweden6297 Posts
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1Eris1
United States5797 Posts
Thats one word. | ||
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Zerkaszhan
Canada120 Posts
On May 09 2011 04:35 5ukkub wrote: Sweden for sure is leading the pack. Ukraine and Germany takes second. Then i would say USA maybe? I'm sad that nobody mentioned Poland with MaNa, Tarson, Nerchio, Diestar, Tefel, Slider but probably i'm just biased ^^ Probably To be completely honest i would say Ukraine and not sweden. Sweden is good but as of late it only seems to be naniwa performing as jinro has been hitting tough times While Kas White-ra and Dimaga are all performing | ||
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Novalisk
Israel1818 Posts
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Mikilatov
United States3897 Posts
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Grezzz
United Kingdom78 Posts
On May 09 2011 04:30 Stenstyren wrote: What does population size have to do with anything? USA has less players performing than Ukraine and Sweden. Idra can most certainly not beat any non-US player, in fact, his toughest opponents are non-us players (WhiteRa, Jinro, Naniwa to name a few). Population size has quite a lot to do with it. If you were to play USA vs Sweden and keep going until one team can no longer field a decent player I'd be willing to bet that Sweden would run out of players before the USA. Sure, Sweden can probably field a better 4-5 player team, but if you kept throwing the USA GM players at them they'd eventually lose because beyond the top few players it's hard to name anybody capable of winning games at that level. It's like comparing something like USA vs Jamaica in athletics. Sure, Jamaica has the biggest superstar with Usain Bolt, but the USA has such a huge number of medal winning athletes that you just have to say that they have a better lineup overall. Of course it's all opinion and down to how you want to set restrictions. I'm simply saying that in terms of numbers of players capable of winning games, USA probably has more. If you're looking for the best 4-person team, it could be different. | ||
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WinZero
Thailand5 Posts
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fadestep
United States605 Posts
On May 09 2011 03:54 VoirDire wrote: Top 5 gotta be Sweden, Ukraine, Germany, US, Canada. Good call. Totally agree with that list. | ||
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Cajun2k1
Netherlands399 Posts
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ccHaZaRd
Canada1024 Posts
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Chairman Ray
United States11903 Posts
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KillerPenguin
United States516 Posts
2 ukraine 3 canada 4 usa usa has idra, select, tyler, cruncher, qxc It would be awesome to see a team league bo9 with these countries top 5 players. | ||
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simme123
Sweden810 Posts
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sVnteen
Germany2238 Posts
edit: neither usa nor canada could measure with the europeans i think look at the results of tsl ukraine germany 2xSweden in the semis so ... also you can look at the results of the nasl and tourneys like mlg ... (eventhough kivikaki went pretty far into dallas but other than that...) | ||
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tyCe
Australia2542 Posts
China will be up there somewhere soon enough though. | ||
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CursOr
United States6335 Posts
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shell
Portugal2722 Posts
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BaronFel
United States155 Posts
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HadesCP
Canada98 Posts
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Tristy
Norway172 Posts
Thorzain, Sjow, Naniwa, Morrow, Sase, and a few more. Ukraine is easy nr 2, and after that it is a cointoss tbh. | ||
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Qwix
531 Posts
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corpsepose
1678 Posts
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Cow
Canada1104 Posts
On May 09 2011 03:54 VoirDire wrote: Top 5 gotta be Sweden, Ukraine, Germany, US, Canada. Going to have to agree with these 5 right here. (In no particular order) | ||
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
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RandomAccount#49059
United States2140 Posts
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Bergys
Sweden337 Posts
On May 09 2011 04:39 Grezzz wrote: Population size has quite a lot to do with it. If you were to play USA vs Sweden and keep going until one team can no longer field a decent player I'd be willing to bet that Sweden would run out of players before the USA. Sure, Sweden can probably field a better 4-5 player team, but if you kept throwing the USA GM players at them they'd eventually lose because beyond the top few players it's hard to name anybody capable of winning games at that level. It's like comparing something like USA vs Jamaica in athletics. Sure, Jamaica has the biggest superstar with Usain Bolt, but the USA has such a huge number of medal winning athletes that you just have to say that they have a better lineup overall. Of course it's all opinion and down to how you want to set restrictions. I'm simply saying that in terms of numbers of players capable of winning games, USA probably has more. If you're looking for the best 4-person team, it could be different. First of all USA would probably lose anyway since naniwa/kas/whoever can probably solo 190 out of the 200 best players without dropping a game if they were allowed breaks etc. Secondly the topic says the best pro line-up so country population is actually irrelevant since US doesn't really have that many pro players for their size. | ||
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blizzind
United States642 Posts
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Sadistx
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
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hugman
Sweden4644 Posts
Huk, KiWi, Drewbie, TT1 and probably more that I don't remember | ||
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Befree
695 Posts
U.S. probably just because of the huge population making up for the lack of overall interest in esports (comparatively). Sweden probably because of the great interest in esports. Just a guess, not scientific or anything :p. A team tournament done by nations would be pretty awesome, though. Our only little world cup. | ||
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Cajun2k1
Netherlands399 Posts
On May 09 2011 04:51 blizzind wrote: sweden is a powerhouse in multiple games. must be something in the water. It's those long cold winters when it's just too cold to go outside, so you stay at home playing games all day/night. That's my theory at least. | ||
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Bapp(Z)
Poland10 Posts
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Stiver
Canada285 Posts
But I think everyone has said it before, but USA has some good players, but the two above have the most beastly. | ||
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Eka
Sweden71 Posts
Ukraine is second and third would be Canada. Cool stuff Sweden: 9 mill people Ukraine: 45 mill people Canada: 34 mill people | ||
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GypsyBeast
Canada630 Posts
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WhiteraCares
Sweden339 Posts
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Toads
Canada1795 Posts
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DirtYLOu
575 Posts
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LicH.
China235 Posts
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Inertia_EU
United Kingdom513 Posts
Since when was NaNiwa a word? Sweden has a strong overall Line up  SjoWJinroThorZaIN  MorroW NaNiwaBut I'm certain that in a winners league format Ukraine would rip them to shreds, every player is a beast ;D White-RaKasStrelokDIMAGA | ||
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sVnteen
Germany2238 Posts
On May 09 2011 04:58 DirtYLOu wrote: Sweden -> Germany -> Ukraine = Canada -> USA thats petty good except it is maybe ger and urkraine swapped so then it would be nice | ||
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borlee
Liechtenstein246 Posts
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blizzind
United States642 Posts
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mappiechampion
Sweden155 Posts
On topic: I guess Canada, Ukraine and Sweden are the top 3 countrys outside of Korea, then fourth it's tied between USA and Germany! | ||
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bLooD.
Germany470 Posts
I´d say Sweden > Ukraine > US/Germany (close) > Canada | ||
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Ragoo
Germany2773 Posts
"I have to admit that Sweden both has many star players and a big player pool and thus is the #1 foreign country. Second would be Germany (very large player pool and some solid pros) and Ukraine (rather small player pool but have 1 of the best players in the world for every race plus Strelok). Then it's US and Canada who both have their stars and a good player pool as well. Then countries like France, Russia, Poland and maybe Netherlands and Finland who all could have a very solid national team. At this point we don't know much about China and Taiwan tho." | ||
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Fuoeh
Netherlands486 Posts
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monx
Canada1400 Posts
2) Ukraine 3) Germany 4) USA 5) Canada | ||
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ribboo
Sweden1842 Posts
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Fangxxer
Sweden70 Posts
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Charger
United States2405 Posts
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act.hero
United States205 Posts
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Sobba
Sweden576 Posts
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Tracedragon
United States948 Posts
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
On May 09 2011 04:08 nebulak187 wrote: No thats not up there. i havent even heard of stephano and song (prolly because im noob )This is quite a feat, knowing he won 4 out of the 5 last Go4SC2... He is #7 on the international TLPD. I never said France was the first, it obviously is Sweden, but it certainly is in the top 5. More than Ukraine or Canada at least. | ||
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radiatoren
Denmark1907 Posts
Outsiders includes France and Poland. However I would say certain countries are strong outsiders: Russia: Brat_ok, Aristeo, Cubert, Happy and scooter + many more. With a 2v2 in the format they have a freewin. Holland: Ret, Grubby, Servant and others. A huge potential. China and Taiwan sounds to do very well also! | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
Idra, InControl, PainUser, Liquid Tyler, QXC ... these are good players. Is Sheth American? | ||
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hugman
Sweden4644 Posts
Players from all countries can beat eachother on any given day | ||
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Carkis
Canada302 Posts
On May 09 2011 04:02 mr_tolkien wrote: Nobody thinks France is quite up there ? Adelscott, Stephano, Moman, Song, Sarens would make quite an ace team... Carn too right? But i dont think those are as good as a lot of other countries | ||
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masterbreti
Korea (South)2711 Posts
Drewbie Huk TT1 KiWiKaKi dde Antimage lefnaij slush ROOTDdoro optikzero Lagttecho tqwannabe and many others | ||
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NotSupporting
Sweden1998 Posts
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Nifel
706 Posts
1. Ukraine 2. Germany 3. Canada 4. Sweden 5. US | ||
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Zeroes
United States1102 Posts
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Retgery
Canada1229 Posts
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Scorch
Austria3371 Posts
Also, where are all the players from Poland and Russia? They had lots of talented Broodwar players as well (Dreiven, ParanOid, MistrZZZ / Androide, Advokate etc.), but you don't hear much of them in Starcraft 2. | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On May 09 2011 05:12 hugman wrote: I don't like this country vs country business Players from all countries can beat eachother on any given day It's all in good fun. Would be cool to see a real world team tournament, with players divided up by country. I wonder how well a 5-man Ukraine team would do against Korea ... | ||
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iiNsAnE
Germany140 Posts
- Morrow, Jinro, Thorzain, Naniwa, Sjow 2. Ukraine - Dimaga, WhiteRa, Kas, Strelok, (couple of others) 3. Germany - Socke, HasuObs, TLO, Goody, Darkforce Well that would be my top 3, followed by Canada and USA... | ||
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Maenander
Germany4926 Posts
Something like the Clanbase nations cup back in 2004: http://clanbase.ggl.com/news_league.php?&lid=1431 The best german brood war team ever won the cup: Mondragon, Fisheye, Breakdown, Socke, OgerDaniel, Infinity, Cope etc. | ||
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ReaperX
Hong Kong1758 Posts
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havox_
Germany442 Posts
Poll: Best Non-Korean SC2 Nation? Sweden (Naniwa, Jinro, ThorZain, Morrow, Sjow, ...) (130) Ukraine (WhiteRa, Dimaga, Strelok, Kas, ...) (19) Germany (TLO, Goody, Socke, HasuObs, DarkForce) (19) Canada (Huk, Kiwikaki, TT1, Drewbie, ...) (10) USA (IdrA, qxc, Incontrol, ...) (8) Other (3) 189 total votes Your vote: Best Non-Korean SC2 Nation? (Vote): Sweden (Naniwa, Jinro, ThorZain, Morrow, Sjow, ...) | ||
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
On May 09 2011 05:12 Carkis wrote: Carn too right? But i dont think those are as good as a lot of other countries I restricted myself to French players playing in Europe, but yes, if you count Fr in Korea, Karn and maybe Soju could also be strong assets to a team. Aures could be considered as well if making an «Fr team». France is to underrated in the international scene... Hasu, Tarson, and Strelok came to the Gamers Assembly (biggest French LAN), the finals where Adel VS Aures. By no mean I'm trying to say «France is the best European country in SC2», but it sure is completly underrated. I myself have discovered the French scene only recently and the least I can say is that I've been quite impressed. | ||
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quiet noise
599 Posts
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VoirDire
Sweden1923 Posts
Nationalities of the first page in TLPD (top 40): 13 Korea 4 Sweden 3 Canada 2 Germany 2 Russia 2 Ukraine 2 USA Nationalities of the first and second page in TLPD (top 80): 16 Korea 9 Canada 7 Sweden 7 USA 5 France 5 Germany 4 Ukraine 3 Finland 2 China 2 Poland 2 Romania 2 Russia 2 Spain Top 120 (only counting nations with 3 or more players): 21 Korea 15 USA 13 Canada 11 Sweden 8 Germany 6 France 4 Poland 4 Russia 4 Ukraine 4 Finland http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players | ||
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mdma-_-
Nauru1213 Posts
On May 09 2011 05:11 Defacer wrote: First time ever I think the US is being considered underrated. Idra, InControl, PainUser, Liquid Tyler, QXC ... these are good players. Is Sheth American? incontrol, painuser, qxc and tyler arent rly the biggest names compared to swedens (Sjow, Morrow, Naniwa, Thorzain, Jinro) or ukraines (strelok, Kas, Whitera, Dimaga) top 5. If you compare them to germany(Socke, Hasu, Darkforce, TLO, Goody, Mondragon) or canada (Kiwikaki, Huk, Drewbie, Slush, TT1) they are much more closer though yet I (and obviously many other ppl as well) would rate them slightly below those 2 countries. All in all the US has a lot of decent players, but only few top players, which is why many ppl would expect them to lose in a tournemant against the other big nations since only the top 5 or so players get to play. Also there should be an ENC this summer, so there will at least be a tourney for the european nations. | ||
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Maenander
Germany4926 Posts
On May 09 2011 05:20 quiet noise wrote: Sweden has the best results, but i think canada is pretty underrated. id pick canada above ukraine (whitera is gosu, dimaga is not showing results and kas is terribly overrated) What the hell? Dimaga has beaten Nestea in zvz, Kas is showing consistent results, and Strelok must not be forgotten! | ||
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Sworn
Canada920 Posts
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Kentakky
Sweden1272 Posts
Sweden already pretty scary. Ukraine scary as well. USA has some great players, should do way better though imo. Canada looking solid, always up there at MLG at least. Germany solid as always. France getting there. Russia not enough info BRAT_OK scary though. China potential powerhouse. | ||
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Looky
United States1608 Posts
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SadMachine
United States98 Posts
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mordk
Chile8385 Posts
2.- Ukraine 3.- Germany 4.- Canada 5.- Russia | ||
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mpf189
332 Posts
On May 09 2011 04:04 thirnaz wrote: Sweden probably atm, and thats quite weird seeing how we have less citizens in our entire country then there is in new york (: E-Sports is also huge in Sweden, much more popular than it is in US. Sweden always does well in E-sports because you can be a pro-gamer and have a nice living. | ||
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unsaintly
Germany687 Posts
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mpf189
332 Posts
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quiet noise
599 Posts
On May 09 2011 05:22 Maenander wrote: What the hell? Dimaga has beaten Nestea in zvz, Kas is showing consistent results, and Strelok must not be forgotten! one win against one player doesnt mean you are suddenly a top-tier player, even if its against Nestea ZvZ. Kas and strelok are good but not on the same level as naniwa/thorzain/whitera etc | ||
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iiNsAnE
Germany140 Posts
On May 09 2011 05:25 Looky wrote: china. from the looks of the starwars tournament. they will surpass even korea once they played it for a few months. i remember they were the only country to have players take games off top korean players in broodwar They surprised me as well in the starswar, but i don't really know where to put them. I agree that it will need some time to really rate the chinese players. But i think they have great potential especially for the fact that eSports in China is getting pretty big as far as i've heard... | ||
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Batch
Sweden692 Posts
On May 09 2011 05:12 hugman wrote: I don't like this country vs country business Players from all countries can beat eachother on any given day I love the country vs country discussions! If we want e-sport to become as big as possible we need as much rivalry and competition as possible. The flag in front of each player brings a lot of feelings into the game. Korea vs Foreigner East vs West Europe vs America USA vs Canada My country vs Another country There are a lot of sports I never watch and don't really care about unless Sweden plays because it automaticly gives me a team to root for. Btw, my top list of non korean countries: 1) Sweden (yes, I am probably biased ^_^) 2) Ukraine 3) Germany 4) USA 5) Canada | ||
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Carkis
Canada302 Posts
On May 09 2011 05:21 VoirDire wrote: Just posting some statistics: Nationalities of the first page in TLPD (top 40): 13 Korea 4 Sweden 3 Canada 2 Germany 2 Russia 2 Ukraine 2 USA Nationalities of the first and second page in TLPD (top 80): 16 Korea 9 Canada 7 Sweden 7 USA 5 France 5 Germany 4 Ukraine 3 Finland 2 China 2 Poland 2 Romania 2 Russia 2 Spain Top 120 (only counting nations with 3 or more players): 21 Korea 15 USA 13 Canada 11 Sweden 8 Germany 6 France 4 Poland 4 Russia 4 Ukraine 4 Finland http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players looks like its canada lol | ||
Beyonder
Netherlands15103 Posts
On May 09 2011 05:16 Maenander wrote: A tourney is needed. Something like the Clanbase nations cup back in 2004: http://clanbase.ggl.com/news_league.php?&lid=1431 The best german brood war team ever won the cup: Mondragon, Fisheye, Breakdown, Socke, OgerDaniel, Infinity, Cope etc. Good times, that cup was my idea and initiative back then :D | ||
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quiet noise
599 Posts
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Beyonder
Netherlands15103 Posts
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Eppa!
Sweden4641 Posts
On May 09 2011 04:39 Grezzz wrote: Population size has quite a lot to do with it. If you were to play USA vs Sweden and keep going until one team can no longer field a decent player I'd be willing to bet that Sweden would run out of players before the USA. Sure, Sweden can probably field a better 4-5 player team, but if you kept throwing the USA GM players at them they'd eventually lose because beyond the top few players it's hard to name anybody capable of winning games at that level. It's like comparing something like USA vs Jamaica in athletics. Sure, Jamaica has the biggest superstar with Usain Bolt, but the USA has such a huge number of medal winning athletes that you just have to say that they have a better lineup overall. Of course it's all opinion and down to how you want to set restrictions. I'm simply saying that in terms of numbers of players capable of winning games, USA probably has more. If you're looking for the best 4-person team, it could be different. Which honestly is irrelevant because China would win that format anyway... | ||
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VoirDire
Sweden1923 Posts
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mpf189
332 Posts
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Denzil
United Kingdom4193 Posts
and that's all. | ||
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qrs
United States3637 Posts
On May 09 2011 04:00 phisku wrote: This.everybody already know the answer Sweden followed by Ukraine. | ||
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teekesselchen
Germany886 Posts
I was expecting a lot more from Russia to be honest. Both Sweden and Ukraine kinda surprised me in how good they are, even though they showed great results in Counter-Strike I never saw them beeing so good in RTS. Germany has somewhat of an equal position like in WC3 I think, just a little better though: Somewhat solid and not bad, but not top class. | ||
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BlACKTrA
Germany187 Posts
Ukraine Germany Canada Sweden is just untouchable, no doubt. Ukraine has many good player, but they dont win so often compared to BETA Times Germany, the same like Ukraine, really nearlly every player in rank 200-50 is German in GML, but there aren´t High-Skilled person Canada many good players, but no good tourmanent results | ||
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Lasbike
France2888 Posts
Then it's canada/usa/germany. | ||
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SuperStyle
United States976 Posts
We already agreed, its about quality not quantity, it doesnt matter that Canada has the most pros when Naniwa can allkill all of them. Anyways its obvious that Sweden is first, anyone who thinks otherwise is biased towards his own county probably. Other 4 countries (USA,CAN,GER,UKR) are pretty close, each one can win another day. Though id like to add Poland there, they would be like an underdog but they could do good. France, Finland and Russia come after that in no particular order. | ||
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Gustaf
Sweden20 Posts
The only real disadvantage Sweden has to other countries is their population, 9 million. If you compare to Ukraine for example, which many brings up in this thread, which has 45 million. This is not really fair either though. Sweden is richer than Ukraine, and is ranked as one of the highest welfare countries in the world, which obviously does matter. Most people in Sweden has access to a computer and ok internet, while this is not the case in Ukraine and most other highpopulated easteurope countries. If you look to other sports such as ice-hockey or football, Sweden is way better than they should be with their 9 million. The skill in esport and other sports has more to do with the environment and circumstances the people live in, than with the countries sheer population. | ||
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ComusLoM
Norway3547 Posts
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Thunderstorm
5 Posts
usa best with zerg: idra, spanishiwa, sheth canada best toss : huk, kiwikaki, TT1 ukraine is all round : whitra- toss, kas- terran, dimaga- zerg | ||
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DrainX
Sweden3187 Posts
http://ehcg.djgamblore.com/compare.php?field=country Sweden $99,473.00 USA $76,398.00 Canada $58,583.00 Ukraine $49,563.00 Germany $43,489.00 | ||
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Zhazulo
Sweden226 Posts
On May 09 2011 05:42 Gustaf wrote: I think Sweden have a lot rolling with esport right now, and has an unfair advatange if you would compare to other countries. Sweden was very fast with personal computers at home in the 90s, and were among the first in the world with broadband and later fiber. The long winters also contributes, with many people staying inside. The only real disadvantage Sweden has to other countries is their population, 9 million. If you compare to Ukraine for example, which many brings up in this thread, which has 45 million. This is not really fair either though. Sweden is richer than Ukraine, and is ranked as one of the highest welfare countries in the world, which obviously does matter. Most people in Sweden has access to a computer and ok internet, while this is not the case in Ukraine and most other highpopulated easteurope countries. If you look to other sports such as ice-hockey or football, Sweden is way better than they should be with their 9 million. The skill in esport and other sports has more to do with the environment and circumstances the people live in, than with the countries sheer population. Nice first post by a fellow Swede ^^ | ||
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Mithriel
Netherlands2969 Posts
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BushidoSnipr
United States910 Posts
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kvn_
Germany22 Posts
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Ventor
United States336 Posts
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Flytothesky
United States591 Posts
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Sermokala
United States14047 Posts
On May 09 2011 03:54 VoirDire wrote: Top 5 gotta be Sweden, Ukraine, Germany, US, Canada. I highly agree. I really wish I could put canada and US ahead but they've just been lacking recently. | ||
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Guthix
United States209 Posts
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ComusLoM
Norway3547 Posts
On May 09 2011 05:53 Guthix wrote: China will be #1 in the future... even better than Korea probably. Actually that might be Taiwan with their professional league teams, they'll be getting structured practice and TV experience and the scene is almost guaranteed to grow and become far stronger if the league survives. Unless we get something comparable the rest of the foreign world will lag behind. | ||
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MaYuu
Sweden516 Posts
Ukraine got the 3 beasts from the east which all preforms really really good. Kas Dimaga and White-Ra. Then we got NA which has many really good players but some which stands out more are Idra Huk and Kiwikaki. Germany got so much potential with Socke HasuObs Goody TLO and Mondragon and many more which all are aspiring pros. Germany will really be a force to be reckoned with once they gain some ground. Sweden got some really nice Terrans with Sjow ThorZaIN and Jinro which all are really dominant throw in MorroW and Naniwa (I would love to throw Haypro in there but he's really under preforming atm which is really sad) and we have the top nations team only to be beaten by the korean one. With the release in china and players always developing one could only speculate which is the best sc2 nation and even if one nation would win a nation cup I'm sure another nation soon would take over the title. | ||
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Kentakky
Sweden1272 Posts
On May 09 2011 05:55 ComusLoM wrote: Actually that might be Taiwan with their professional league teams, they'll be getting structured practice and TV experience and the scene is almost guaranteed to grow and become far stronger if the league survives. Unless we get something comparable the rest of the foreign world will lag behind. If China can make DotA a super serious game with bunchloads of cash and player transfers for like 5k$ per player etc imagine what they can do with Sc2! | ||
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leeteyed
23 Posts
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IPA
United States3206 Posts
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Neo7
United States922 Posts
Jinro is like the Fantasy of StarCraft 2. | ||
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zDeath
United States25 Posts
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cheesemaster
Canada1975 Posts
On May 09 2011 05:21 VoirDire wrote: Just posting some statistics: Nationalities of the first page in TLPD (top 40): 13 Korea 4 Sweden 3 Canada 2 Germany 2 Russia 2 Ukraine 2 USA Nationalities of the first and second page in TLPD (top 80): 16 Korea 9 Canada 7 Sweden 7 USA 5 France 5 Germany 4 Ukraine 3 Finland 2 China 2 Poland 2 Romania 2 Russia 2 Spain Top 120 (only counting nations with 3 or more players): 21 Korea 15 USA 13 Canada 11 Sweden 8 Germany 6 France 4 Poland 4 Russia 4 Ukraine 4 Finland http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-international/players Yea id defenetly say canada is top 3. There are quite a few good french canadian players as well as quite a few in the top 200 from vancouver. Wannabe, stalife, drewbie (vancouver island), firezerg, REQCHEUBC, Masterasia, Vader(he may or may not be from van). Not all of these players are particularily notable but they all reside in the top 200 (or have for a while) and they are all from one city wich is pretty impressive. Of course there is DDE TT1 Slush Kiwi DDoro IefNaijas more notable players in different parts of canada. There is a few other players that are on the tip of my toungue cant quite remember. | ||
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TheRooster
Sweden719 Posts
On May 09 2011 04:36 act.hero wrote: Change the OP to best: Terran/Protoss/Zerg team. Sweden: SjoW / Naniwa / Morrow Ukraine: Kas / WhiteRa / Dimaga Germany: Goody / HasuObs / Darkforce France: Adelscott / ? / Moman Canada (Root lol): Drewbie / Kiwikaki / Slush USA: SeleCT (Qxc? if you don't count select) / Incontrol / IdrA Anyone else? Why would u pick sjow when u have Jinro and Thorzain? | ||
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Kyles92
England183 Posts
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Drowsy
United States4876 Posts
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cheesemaster
Canada1975 Posts
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TheRooster
Sweden719 Posts
On May 09 2011 04:39 Grezzz wrote: Population size has quite a lot to do with it. If you were to play USA vs Sweden and keep going until one team can no longer field a decent player I'd be willing to bet that Sweden would run out of players before the USA. Sure, Sweden can probably field a better 4-5 player team, but if you kept throwing the USA GM players at them they'd eventually lose because beyond the top few players it's hard to name anybody capable of winning games at that level. It's like comparing something like USA vs Jamaica in athletics. Sure, Jamaica has the biggest superstar with Usain Bolt, but the USA has such a huge number of medal winning athletes that you just have to say that they have a better lineup overall. Of course it's all opinion and down to how you want to set restrictions. I'm simply saying that in terms of numbers of players capable of winning games, USA probably has more. If you're looking for the best 4-person team, it could be different. Wouldnt like China or India just crush everything then... | ||
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RBreaker
Sweden94 Posts
If it was like that, one player to rank a countrys leadership in the world, wouldnt players like Elky or Grrr make their countries the greatest? or was it, only for a period of time during bw? Have faith and stop bashing just cuz you dont feel the same, but atm its quite the same between ukraine/sweden/canada/germany. I cant really place USA with its players here just due to lack of news, tournament wins and PR outside of US. | ||
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Lutto
Sweden198 Posts
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
On May 09 2011 06:09 Drowsy wrote: Need a Ukraine vs Sweden team showmatch imo. Not until World wins Korea vs. World 2. | ||
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zyzq
United States3123 Posts
On May 09 2011 06:05 Neo7 wrote: Going to have to go with Sweeden. Jinro is like the Fantasy of StarCraft 2.Without the mechanics | ||
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Terranist
United States2496 Posts
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Thobrik
Sweden1120 Posts
In a bo5 format, it would be harder to judge. In a bo7+ Sweden would have much better odds considering we have a huge bunch of almost-top-level players such as merz, LaLush, SaSe, Jimpo, Bischu, Naugrim, Cytoplasm etc. | ||
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ScaSully
United States488 Posts
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Denizen[9]
United States649 Posts
On May 09 2011 06:17 Thobrik wrote: Personally, I think that we (Sweden) could potentially get our but kicked in any XvX, but that the higher the number, the greater our chances. In a bo3, it would be a coinflip between Sweden and Poland, Germany, US, Canada, Ukraine and probably even less prominent countries such as Russia (Happy, Brat_Ok, HasHe), Finland (naama, elfi, satiini), France etc etc. In a bo5 format, it would be harder to judge. In a bo7+ Sweden would have much better odds considering we have a huge bunch of almost-top-level players such as merz, LaLush, SaSe, Jimpo, Bischu, Naugrim, Cytoplasm etc. i think sweden has good chances the higher it goes and then theres a point where US would start dominating cuz of amount of players. | ||
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Matsumoto
Germany493 Posts
but indeed i think it is Sweden>ukraine>germany/canada>usa>poland/france/netherlands btw in my opinion in case of "E-sport infrastructure"(teams,companies etc.) Germany is the nr.1 in Europe (and that has nothing to do with population etc.) | ||
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Yoss
Poland33 Posts
5 SuperStars: Morrow, Thorzain, Naniwa, Sjow, Jinro and yet a lot of solid players: SaSe, Jimpo, Lalush, Merz, Bishu, Madfrog, Haypro, Naugrim and i can still name like 5 more that i heard of/seen games | ||
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KobraKay
Portugal4231 Posts
I do believe Sweden and Ukrain lead the pack! | ||
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mpf189
332 Posts
On May 09 2011 06:18 Drazzyo wrote: American has idrA, INcontrol, Tyler(Nony), Catz, Drewbie. Come on who could take on IdrA backed up by catZ with the in base hatch? Drewbie and Catz are Canadian I believe, and Drewbie really doesn't compare to the top Euro terrans imo. I think only players in NA that can go against Koreans are Idra and HuK, Canada has a lot of good players like the Root players, but they are behind the elite players. | ||
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blae000
Norway1640 Posts
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Pulimuli
Sweden2766 Posts
its not an opinion its pretty much a fact! argument: Finals of TSL is 100% Swedish! | ||
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Herrk
Sweden271 Posts
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ShadowDrgn
United States2497 Posts
On May 09 2011 06:25 mpf189 wrote: Drewbie and Catz are Canadian I believe, and Drewbie really doesn't compare to the top Euro terrans imo. I think only players in NA that can go against Koreans are Idra and HuK, Canada has a lot of good players like the Root players, but they are pretty far behind the elite players. Drewbie and HuK are both Canadian. Catz is from Peru but lives in the US now. | ||
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Ryze
Canada234 Posts
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TheBB
Switzerland5133 Posts
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Perkins1752
Germany214 Posts
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VoirDire
Sweden1923 Posts
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Ninjahoe
Sweden148 Posts
http://rakaka.se/ | ||
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VoirDire
Sweden1923 Posts
LOL WTF!!! | ||
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ljdljd
Canada15 Posts
I'm not saying they are the team to beat right now, but they should deserve some consideration in the talks. | ||
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eXwOn
Canada351 Posts
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Escapist
Portugal548 Posts
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cellblock
Sweden206 Posts
On May 09 2011 05:42 Gustaf wrote: I think Sweden have a lot rolling with esport right now, and has an unfair advatange if you would compare to other countries. Sweden was very fast with personal computers at home in the 90s, and were among the first in the world with broadband and later fiber. The long winters also contributes, with many people staying inside. The only real disadvantage Sweden has to other countries is their population, 9 million. If you compare to Ukraine for example, which many brings up in this thread, which has 45 million. This is not really fair either though. Sweden is richer than Ukraine, and is ranked as one of the highest welfare countries in the world, which obviously does matter. Most people in Sweden has access to a computer and ok internet, while this is not the case in Ukraine and most other highpopulated easteurope countries. If you look to other sports such as ice-hockey or football, Sweden is way better than they should be with their 9 million. The skill in esport and other sports has more to do with the environment and circumstances the people live in, than with the countries sheer population. ehh that doesnt even make sense. how come Denmark or Norway isnt as good then? Gaming is very popular here, not only for hardcore geeks, but for everyone. People are very competitive, that is the biggest reason we have sick top players, not because of long winters. Also when we have summer, people barely sit indoor and practise games. I dont even think Sweden is a rich country anymore either. you also contradict yourself, why would we be good in football with long winters? | ||
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OminouS
Sweden1343 Posts
On May 09 2011 06:49 cellblock wrote: ehh that doesnt even make sense. how come Denmark or Norway isnt as good then? Gaming is very popular here, not only for hardcore geeks, but for everyone. People are very competitive, that is the biggest reason we have sick top players, not because of long winters. Also when we have summer, people barely sit indoor and practise games. I dont even think Sweden is a rich country anymore either. you also contradict yourself, why would we be good in football with long winters? Are Sweden good in football? Hopefully they will show that in the next world cup. When it comes to SC2 Sweden has been showing some good results, so has many other countries as mentioned in this thread. Watch out for China though, those guy will soon be crazy good. | ||
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Ghad
Norway2551 Posts
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
And we seriously need a world cup for this. That would be epic. | ||
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zende
Sweden234 Posts
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mordk
Chile8385 Posts
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sjschmidt93
United States2518 Posts
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Sobba
Sweden576 Posts
Epic! | ||
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nitdkim
1264 Posts
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PraetorianX
Sweden780 Posts
2. Ukraine 3. Canada 4. USA 5. Germany | ||
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blackone
Germany1314 Posts
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Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
S-Korea A-Sweden B-Ukraine, Canada C-Germany, USA Germany probably interchangeable between B/C | ||
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
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Gangr3l
Finland27 Posts
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Gaxton
Sweden2328 Posts
But keep an eye out for China in the near future. They had/have a pretty sick WC3-lineup, hopefully they will switch over. | ||
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Gustaf
Sweden20 Posts
ehh that doesnt even make sense. how come Denmark or Norway isnt as good then? Gaming is very popular here, not only for hardcore geeks, but for everyone. People are very competitive, that is the biggest reason we have sick top players, not because of long winters. Also when we have summer, people barely sit indoor and practise games. I dont even think Sweden is a rich country anymore either. you also contradict yourself, why would we be good in football with long winters? Denmark and Norway has nothing to do with my post, i explained my thoughts on why Sweden is good in Sc2, not why Denmark and Norway isnt good, which i am sure have its own reasons. I dont think Swedens population is more competetive than any other country, so that argument is invalid to me. And yes i do think people in northern countries in general stay in more than the rest of Europe, America and Asia because of the weather, which in my opinion is a reason for why we are better at Sc2 and other videogames. I know i sit indoor and play even when its summer, altough less than in winter. Especially as most younger people who are in school are free some months of the summer, which will also have an effect on how much they play. And in comparison to Ukraine, yes, Sweden is rich. Even in comparison to USA, Sweden is rich in a way that we have a better welfare, a lot less people who are very poor (and thus cannot afford a personal computer). Actually, Scandinavian countries have amongst the best social security in the world, which makes it so that even the poorest 10 % of our people can still play videogames, which is not the case in most other countries. And the winter and football things were not at all related, it was just a comparison that population dont have alot to do with skill as one may think. Football is although a bad example (as Sweden is currently kind of sucky at), icehockey is a better one. Both in Canada and Sweden, Icehockey are one of the most popular sports, but eventhough Canada has more than 20 million more people Sweden are still as good as them, sometimes worse, and sometimes better. | ||
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SpurvL
Sweden345 Posts
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ampson
United States2355 Posts
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raser
Norway301 Posts
On May 09 2011 06:49 cellblock wrote: ehh that doesnt even make sense. how come Denmark or Norway isnt as good then? Gaming is very popular here, not only for hardcore geeks, but for everyone. People are very competitive, that is the biggest reason we have sick top players, not because of long winters. Also when we have summer, people barely sit indoor and practise games. I dont even think Sweden is a rich country anymore either. you also contradict yourself, why would we be good in football with long winters? as for a POV from Norway, it seems that gaming is more commonly accepted in Sweden then in Norway at leaste, a lot more people play games + you have a rich traditional of top gamers in a lot of games i put swe as be None-korean country | ||
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Zooper31
United States5711 Posts
2.d: Ukraine 3rd: Canada/Germany 4th: USA | ||
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Twistacles
Canada1327 Posts
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Quanticfograw
United States2053 Posts
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ridonkulous
159 Posts
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neobowman
Canada3324 Posts
First comes storming into proleague with their Flash, Jaedong, Bisu clones and winning the title. Next comes SC2 as they bring their robotic minions in the masses to take over esports, eventually amassing enough prize money to buy out the US government and conquer the planet. | ||
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Bobster
Germany3075 Posts
In that order. Although anyone can beat anyone else at the top, though. On May 09 2011 08:00 likeaboss wrote: All I know is that we need another nation wars league going on asap. Oh hell yeah. | ||
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mikyaJ
1834 Posts
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cellblock
Sweden206 Posts
On May 09 2011 07:38 Gustaf wrote: Denmark and Norway has nothing to do with my post, i explained my thoughts on why Sweden is good in Sc2, not why Denmark and Norway isnt good, which i am sure have its own reasons. better. yes they do, since u said environment and weather matters for how skilled a nations gamers are , and those those two countries have nearly same environment as sweden, but doesnt have as good SC2 players. | ||
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Mephiztopheles1
1124 Posts
On May 09 2011 08:10 mikyaJ wrote: Sweden > Ukraine > USA > Germany China is in there somewhere, I just don't know where. But China, just like in DotA and Warcraft 3, will always have the internet problem so only in offline events it'll be possible for them to show what they're made of. | ||
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Aetherial
Australia917 Posts
1) Sweden 2) Ukraine 3) USA | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/QUqPf.png) Just a nitbit from the cesspool that is known as 4chan. But the reality is to my insatisfaction different. Sweden right now reigns supreme with Naniwa dominating(I hope this won´t last long), and other very good players like Thorzain, Jinro and Morrow. With just White-Ra and Dimaga, I´d say Ukraine is a strong contender for second. Only 4 players in Liquipedia though. Kinda few for a national lineup. USA is a strong contender for second, too. They have a lot of famous players to choose from, BUT fame doesn´t equal skill. Unless you talk about Idra of course. Idra alone makes this team a lot better. I am not sure about germany. I am german therefore I probably am biased. TLO is proven to be good. HasuObs, Goody, Mondragon and Socke all had moments where they shined. I am not sure if Mondragon will stay active though. Canada has strong player like Huk and wellknown players like Drewbie, Kiwikaki, TT1. Can´t discount them. Netherlands have Ret. And Grubby. This is more of an honorary mention simply because Ret is pretty good. He should have chosen a better represented country to be born in. I won´t talk about every country in length, if I would nobody would read it :D I think these are about the strongest. All I know is: You can´t argue about Sweden. | ||
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Navillus
United States1188 Posts
On May 09 2011 04:04 thirnaz wrote: Sweden probably atm, and thats quite weird seeing how we have less citizens in our entire country then there is in new york (: And it's Sweden for the same reason that Sweden has a better education system on average than the US, the average person in your country would be upper middle class if not higher in the US while the average US citizen is probably lower middle class if not working class, the Swedish government has much less to deal with than the US and it's people do too. (less taxes in addition to the fact that they're already making more on average) | ||
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LagT_T
Argentina535 Posts
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iNbluE
Switzerland674 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + What a great joke. Sweden, Ukraine and Germany are the most serious in that order. | ||
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LOcDowN
United States1015 Posts
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Mailing
United States3087 Posts
KR > EU > NA The absolute top players from each region are not too far off in terms of skill, it's just KR has the most "top" players, EU has a lot, and NA has some. | ||
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dmans
Sweden358 Posts
On May 09 2011 07:35 Gangr3l wrote: Our beloved neighbor, Sweden. Why is thinking of this now | ||
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BBMorti
Denmark242 Posts
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theBullFrog
United States515 Posts
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DyEnasTy
United States3714 Posts
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Bacondemon
Sweden149 Posts
1. Sweden - a lineup of Jinro, Sjow, Naniwa, Morrow, Thorzain (Lalush, Bischu, Haypro) both has huge depth and starpower. 2. Ukraine - The beastly four, White-ra, Dimaga, Strelok and Kas, these names have been dropped again and again in this thread, all extremely solid players with a good mix of races. Yeah, that does look very scary indeed, but it doesn't have the much depth, are there other good Ukrainian players? 3. Germany - German efficiency, right: Socke, Hasuobs, Goody, TLO, Darkforce (Mondragon) makes for a solid, stable, always performing line-up, but lacks a bit of punch, if Germany had a real superstar like White-ra they'd be on top of my list. 4. Canada - Huk, Kiwikaki, TT1, Drewbie, Slush (Stalife, dde) is looking very good also, the three protoss all being monsters. 5. Poland - Everyone seems to forget Poland! Mana and Tarson backed by players like Nerchio and Diestar makes for a dangerous lineup, with both some starpower and solidity. 6. France - Moman, Saracens, Adelscott, Stephano seems like a light version of the Ukraine lineup, with the same solidity, but lacking some real punch 7. USA - I got stuck for a while after "Idra,", but USA has an nearly unlimited pool of upcoming talent, and could at any moment explode into being a top tier country, right now the line-up would perhaps look something like this: Idra, Qxc, Incontrol, Cruncher, which isn't looking bad, but not too hot either 8. Russia - My knowledge of the Russian scene is limited, but power players like Brat_ok and the new face Happy along with lesser known, but surely talented players out of Russia could do pretty good 9. Finland - Finland could scrape together a great, solid lineup with Namaa, Satiini and Elfi. 10. Holland - Grubby and Ret have strong backs, they could carry many lesser players and still do well. | ||
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venage
Sweden65 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + And now a thorzain and naniwa claiming nr 1 and 2 in the tsl 1,Korea 2,Sweden 3.Usa 4.Ukraine 5.Germany imo. but I'm biased | ||
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DyEnasTy
United States3714 Posts
On May 09 2011 08:37 venage wrote: Sweden have dominated the foreigner scene throughout sc2 with jinro and haypro attacking korea with various success and morrow battleing it out in both germany and finland while sjow took on the ukrainians on their homesoil and won. Jinro and Naniwa both claiming an MLG title in America. + Show Spoiler + And now a thorzain and naniwa claiming nr 1 and 2 in the tsl 1,Korea 2,Sweden 3.Usa 4.Ukraine 5.Germany imo. but I'm biased as you should be. you are fielding some badass players atm. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
As Idra and as far as I heard Sheth say, the player level in the EU Battlenet is higher than in the US. Kind of sad, that. On a more cheerful note, I find it hilarious that most people who mention germany don´t mention TLO first, but Darkforce/Socke/Goody, probably depending on their race bias. | ||
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Eppa!
Sweden4641 Posts
On May 09 2011 08:15 Navillus wrote: And it's Sweden for the same reason that Sweden has a better education system on average than the US, the average person in your country would be upper middle class if not higher in the US while the average US citizen is probably lower middle class if not working class, the Swedish government has much less to deal with than the US and it's people do too. (less taxes in addition to the fact that they're already making more on average) This is not true according to random graph on wikipedia, Sweden has one of the highest tax % in the world. The reason could honestly be many. You could just as easily argue that atheism is responsible (both Skorea and Sweden have 50%< atheists.) but its pointless as arguing why since it is simply not something you can prove. Also Poland and Finland is pretty good, I think that they may be able to compete with of the "t2" countries. | ||
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hongo
207 Posts
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GMonster
686 Posts
LiquidTyler EGiNcontroL EGIdrA DAY9! <-----Win. FXOSheth FXOqxc EDIT: Forgot about SelecCt (Sorry SELECT) Probably Sweden though. | ||
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MajorityofOne
Canada2506 Posts
Then pick two out of Poland, Russia, Finland, Holland And you've got a pretty sweet 8 member tournament. | ||
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bananafisho
23 Posts
Though Ukraine and Germany are pretty hot too. | ||
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KevinIX
United States2472 Posts
Of course, Sweden is just ridiculous though. Naniwa, Morrow, Sjow, Jinro... | ||
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ePAttack
United States112 Posts
On May 09 2011 04:00 Horse...falcon wrote: Ukraine's pretty beastly. WhiteRa, Dimaga, Strelok, Kas Sweden's probably the winner Morrow, Jinro, Thorzain, Naniwa, Sjow Canada Huk, Kiwikaki, TT1, Drewbie, lots of others Germany TLO, Hasuobs, Darkforce, Socke Thanks for taking the time to make a list. | ||
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GMonster
686 Posts
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LuckyMacro
United States1482 Posts
On May 09 2011 07:57 Twistacles wrote: Sweden an Ukraine are tied, with Canada/Germany/USA are a notch under. France/China/Thailand would probably be another notch under Wait, why Thailand? | ||
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G.K.
United States105 Posts
not biased | ||
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Jhax
Ireland201 Posts
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dmans
Sweden358 Posts
On May 09 2011 09:00 G.K. wrote: Korea = Sweden = Ukraine > Germany = Canada > USA not biased UK have 2gd, the greatest host ever and the english archon. but i can agree that sweden and ukraine are in the top. | ||
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Eppa!
Sweden4641 Posts
On May 09 2011 08:49 KevinIX wrote: USA has Idra, Select, Tyler, qxc, Incontrol, Sheth and dozens more seriously good players. Of course, Sweden is just ridiculous though. Naniwa, Morrow, Sjow, Jinro... Select is Korean... | ||
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VanGarde
Sweden755 Posts
Sweden, Ukraine, Germany, Canada, France, South Korea and the USA in no particular order are given participants in such a tournament, one more country would be needed though for 8 teams. I just don't know enough about other sc2 countries I mean I know chinese and taiwanese and brittish sc2 players but for those countries I just know 1 or 2 names and I don't know which eight country would be able to field a full team of relatively even players. | ||
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Shimeone
Belgium16 Posts
Well, they got me. That's a start. | ||
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SoKHo
Korea (South)1081 Posts
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On May 09 2011 03:53 awesomoecalypse wrote: Foreigners have traditionally all been lumped into one big group in Starcraft, which made sense in BW because the scene was comparatively small enough that each country had at best a small handful of notable players. But with the foreigner SC2 scene growing by leaps and bounds, a legitimate question arises: Which foreigner nation can field the best pro lineup? This used to be brought up on a bi-weekly basis when all we had was SC:BW. Hell, we used to have a ton of Nation Wars. Back then super powers included everything from Germany, China, Poland, etc. It will constantly change. I'm sure everyone is willing to say Sweden has stepped up to plate once again as the DH when in reality it could be any given Sunday. It's okay, Sweden can be the flavor of the week/month/whatever you want to call it. There are plenty of countries in the wings though. | ||
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Alsn
Sweden995 Posts
On May 09 2011 04:03 johlar wrote: TSL3 Semifinals spoiler+ Show Spoiler +Sweden probably has the best tournament results so far(2mlg, 2iem etc) and therefor arguably the strongest nation. Don't forget 1 tsl(final match is swe vs swe) | ||
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Widz
Sweden75 Posts
Edit: Wait Select is Korean | ||
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Jacko11
China146 Posts
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mikyaJ
1834 Posts
On May 09 2011 10:14 Widz wrote: US got tons of player but do they have any really good ones? Idra and Select then what? Edit: Wait Select is Korean The US has far more players in the Top 100 ELO in TLPD than Sweden. ThorZain and Naniwa are killing it right now, but MorroW is not what he used to be, and Sjow is no better than [insert random NA player here] in his current form right now. Sheth, IdrA, Kawaiirice, Tyler, qxc, Response; but Sweden has others like Sase as well. The real 'numbers' country is Canada, afaik they have the most players in the Top 100 ELO atm, but no real superstar. As for my opinion, I think China, Ukraine, USA, Sweden, Canada, and Germany are the top countries. | ||
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Voltaire
United States1485 Posts
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3 Lions
United States3705 Posts
Ukraine next, and then USA, Canada, Germany, Russia in that order | ||
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Xtal
Haiti385 Posts
lol op.. | ||
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ComTrav
United States1093 Posts
Canada also has a strong showing. | ||
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TheWarbler
United States1659 Posts
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mikyaJ
1834 Posts
Poll: Which Non-Korean Nation has the best Pro Lineup Sweden (45) Poland (16) Germany (10) Canada (8) Ukraine (8) USA (3) China (2) France (2) Finland (1) Russia (1) 96 total votes Your vote: Which Non-Korean Nation has the best Pro Lineup (Vote): USA it's 21056 for the OP | ||
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VoirDire
Sweden1923 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=220825¤tpage=8#144 | ||
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socommaster123
United States578 Posts
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Froadac
United States6733 Posts
On May 09 2011 04:03 AlBundy wrote: Sweden, urkraine, germany, USA Exactly. Sweden for tourney results, ukraine for tourney results, germany for TLO & Co, and USA because of massive #s. | ||
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Arterial
Australia1039 Posts
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3 Lions
United States3705 Posts
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bkrow
Australia8532 Posts
A "nation wars" would be an awesome tournament; more so than EU vs NA :p | ||
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KillerPlague
United States1386 Posts
(im from us so i can make fun :D) | ||
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antilyon
Brazil2546 Posts
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Canadium
Canada171 Posts
1. Sweden 2. Ukraine 3. Germany 4. Canada (Pretty much just because of Kiwi....) 5. U.S.A. | ||
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IMLyte
Canada714 Posts
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Carkis
Canada302 Posts
On May 09 2011 11:22 Canadium wrote: Agreed.... 1. Sweden 2. Ukraine 3. Germany 4. Canada (Pretty much just because of Kiwi....) 5. U.S.A. i think HuKs better because of his Korean training and code S is pretty dam sick I do love Kiwi tho this tread reminded me how many sick gamers there are from Canada | ||
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dmillz
Canada270 Posts
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zaii
Guam2611 Posts
On May 09 2011 11:48 Carkis wrote: i think HuKs better because of his Korean training and code S is pretty dam sick I do love Kiwi tho this tread reminded me how many sick gamers there are from Canada iirc didn't Kiwi 2-0 Huk at MLG? Also Huk pretty much got a free pass to Code A/S. Kiwi > Huk | ||
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Khalleb
Canada1909 Posts
On May 09 2011 11:57 zaii wrote: iirc didn't Kiwi 2-0 Huk at MLG? Also Huk pretty much got a free pass to Code A/S. Kiwi > Huk kiwi didnt won vs huk he did lose vs him at the final, even if i am wrong it was bfr he went to korea so it wasnt the huk of today | ||
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Kiichol
Sweden182 Posts
But honestly, I'm worried for all my fellow swede's in here who are posting their proud egoistic hearts out! It's not an issue, I just don't want the world to rub my nose in it when Sweden falls. For as we all know; "What goes up must come down". So beware my countrymen! Enjoy our moment of victory for now, it shall not last forever. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
On May 09 2011 12:01 KhAlleB wrote: kiwi didnt won vs huk he did lose vs him at the final, even if i am wrong it was bfr he went to korea so it wasnt the huk of today I think they are talking about Dallas 2011 in group play. | ||
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holynorth
United States590 Posts
USA and Canada - either way for 3/4th. I think people give Germany too much credit. | ||
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Buffy
Sweden665 Posts
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On May 09 2011 12:14 Kiichol wrote: Im extremely proud of what my wonderful country appears to have achieved. It warms my heart to see Sweden do well in any international sport. But honestly, I'm worried for all my fellow swede's in here who are posting their proud egoistic hearts out! It's not an issue, I just don't want the world to rub my nose in it when Sweden falls. For as we all know; "What goes up must come down". So beware my countrymen! Enjoy our moment of victory for now, it shall not last forever. A wise man once said, "Rock out with your cock out." Sweden's doing great. Live it up while you can, dude. | ||
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JKira
Canada1002 Posts
On May 09 2011 11:57 zaii wrote: iirc didn't Kiwi 2-0 Huk at MLG? Also Huk pretty much got a free pass to Code A/S. Kiwi > Huk Kiwi 2-1'ed HuK and there was a DC game where HuK was ahead. Either way PvP results should be the last thing to look at when comparing skills of two players. The only thing Kiwi impresses me in now is his PvZ. I thought he was better than HuK by a lot but his NASL results suggest to me that they're not too far apart in skill. | ||
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MrBitter
United States2940 Posts
USA has Day[9], Tastless, Artosis, iNcontrol, JP and Wheat. No one can touch that lineup. | ||
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Resonance
Canada113 Posts
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a4bisu
Australia86 Posts
On May 09 2011 14:54 MrBitter wrote: Let's be real. USA has Day[9], Tastless, Artosis, iNcontrol, JP and Wheat. No one can touch that lineup. | ||
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Spacekyod
United States818 Posts
In all seriousness though, i would say sweden is pretty far in the lead on this one. | ||
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chrisolo
Germany2608 Posts
Then I do not see a country close, maybe China (but don't know any player from there atm so I cant judge that) With a bigger distance: 4) Germany 5) Canada 6) USA 7) Russia (I am sooo sure they have many many very good players, which just do not get any attention) | ||
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SweetAs
New Zealand290 Posts
Best toss, best Zerg, and some pretty damn good terrans. | ||
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Ryusei-R1
United States2106 Posts
Canada's up there, but not on top. | ||
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quiet noise
599 Posts
On May 09 2011 16:03 SweetAs wrote: Ukraine. Best toss, best Zerg, and some pretty damn good terrans. Naniwa>Whitera, at least right now. Dimaga has showed way to little results/achievements to be considered the best european Zerg, id say Ret probably holds that title. Beating Nestea in one series doesnt suddenly make you a Bonjwa | ||
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Pervect
1280 Posts
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nihlon
Sweden5581 Posts
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bugabinga
Germany17 Posts
No need to divide, we are one ^^ | ||
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Rabbitmaster
1357 Posts
Sweden Ukraine Germany | ||
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Seide
United States831 Posts
Russia has some good players too, but we don't see them very often | ||
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Rabbitmaster
1357 Posts
On May 09 2011 10:29 mikyaJ wrote: The US has far more players in the Top 100 ELO in TLPD than Sweden. ThorZain and Naniwa are killing it right now, but MorroW is not what he used to be, and Sjow is no better than [insert random NA player here] in his current form right now. Sheth, IdrA, Kawaiirice, Tyler, qxc, Response; but Sweden has others like Sase as well. The real 'numbers' country is Canada, afaik they have the most players in the Top 100 ELO atm, but no real superstar. As for my opinion, I think China, Ukraine, USA, Sweden, Canada, and Germany are the top countries. Gotta take into account that sweden has roughly 9 million citizens, whereas the US has close to 300 million? Edit: USA has 311,314,000 (May 9, 2011), Sweden has 9,422,661 (February 28, 2011) | ||
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Kraznaya
United States3711 Posts
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Xerrea
Denmark41 Posts
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Blasphemi
United Kingdom980 Posts
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Dattish
Sweden6297 Posts
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Seronei
Sweden991 Posts
On May 09 2011 16:31 Rabbitmaster wrote: Gotta take into account that sweden has roughly 9 million citizens, whereas the US has close to 300 million? Edit: USA has 311,314,000 (May 9, 2011), Sweden has 9,422,661 (February 28, 2011) Sweden has also earned the most price money outside of Korea. | ||
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DoomsVille
Canada4885 Posts
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DoomsVille
Canada4885 Posts
On May 09 2011 16:31 Rabbitmaster wrote: Gotta take into account that sweden has roughly 9 million citizens, whereas the US has close to 300 million? Edit: USA has 311,314,000 (May 9, 2011), Sweden has 9,422,661 (February 28, 2011) Population isn't that important. More important is what % of that population is heavily into esports. You'll find that esports as a whole is much more popular in Sweden than in NA. While yes US will still probably have more people overall, the difference isn't as large as the two population differences will make it seem. | ||
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Fates
United States91 Posts
Sweden's Terran is especially terrifying. | ||
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zeru
8156 Posts
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towel
Sweden156 Posts
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Namakaye
Australia114 Posts
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Aus.Force
Australia1278 Posts
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Fates
United States91 Posts
On May 09 2011 16:54 Aus.Force wrote: Sweden and Ukraine. The Americans dont even come close to the Europeans at the moment. Eh kinda. We have some awesome players, but Sweden's entire lineup is pretty amazing, along with Ukraine's. | ||
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Norada
China482 Posts
On May 09 2011 16:32 Kraznaya wrote: China and Chinese Taipei will prove you all wrong at WCG. xiaOt hasnt dropped a bo3 match vs koreans yet in tournies. Has beat mkp/san so far. Sad that he said in an interview he will stay in china till he is seen as the best before going to other countries | ||
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Fates
United States91 Posts
On May 09 2011 17:04 Norada wrote: xiaOt hasnt dropped a bo3 match vs koreans yet in tournies. Has beat mkp/san so far. Sad that he said in an interview he will stay in china till he is seen as the best before going to other countries That's pretty impressive, any games worth recommending? | ||
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Beyonder
Netherlands15103 Posts
His ladder records are also always awesome. | ||
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FlaminGinjaNinja
United Kingdom879 Posts
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Blasphemi
United Kingdom980 Posts
On May 09 2011 17 Norada wrote: xiaOt hasnt dropped a bo3 match vs koreans yet in tournies. Has beat mkp/san so far. Sad that he said in an interview he will stay in china till he is seen as the best before going to other countries How is the China to everywhere else latency? | ||
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Norada
China482 Posts
On May 09 2011 17:15 Blasphemi wrote: How is the China to everywhere else latency? They played on korean servers I believe.. maybe it was china though. http://sc2.plu.cn/vod/ are the vods for the starswar tournament. Where he faced mkp/san | ||
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SuperStyle
United States976 Posts
On May 09 2011 10:29 mikyaJ wrote: The US has far more players in the Top 100 ELO in TLPD than Sweden. ThorZain and Naniwa are killing it right now, but MorroW is not what he used to be, and Sjow is no better than [insert random NA player here] in his current form right now. Sheth, IdrA, Kawaiirice, Tyler, qxc, Response; but Sweden has others like Sase as well. The real 'numbers' country is Canada, afaik they have the most players in the Top 100 ELO atm, but no real superstar. As for my opinion, I think China, Ukraine, USA, Sweden, Canada, and Germany are the top countries. The thread says which non Korean nation has the best pro lineup, not who has more ppl in top 100 elo, no one cares about who has more players, ppl care about who has better players. Saying that Sjow who is the most accomplished player outside of Korea is not better than random NA player is a HUGE insult, sure he might not be in a form as Naniwa or Idra atm but he can easily 3-0 any other US player u just mentioned. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
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LeLfe
France3160 Posts
I'm a bit surprised by people giving so much credit to Canada, don't get me wrong they have good players, but I think their top players against top players from EU countries would just get killed, and what I saw yesterday with mouz killing ROOT tends to go in my direction I think the lots of bo3 we'll get thanks to the EGMCS which might give us a better answer to "who is ahead?" (although Ukraine will not be too much in the spotlight as Dimaga, Kas and Ra are not in the invited teams) | ||
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HuK
Canada1591 Posts
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panda_inc
Australia170 Posts
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Morale
Sweden1010 Posts
On May 09 2011 17:33 Liquid`HuK wrote: sweden by far Preemptive gz on ure 1000th post! | ||
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PandaMow
England3 Posts
P.S Id love to see England -_- but with only 1 true top player in DeMuslim its pretty unlikely we would do any good ;( | ||
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SuperStyle
United States976 Posts
On May 09 2011 17:33 Liquid`HuK wrote: sweden by far He speaks the truth! | ||
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uSnAmplified
United States1029 Posts
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WhiteraCares
Sweden339 Posts
On May 09 2011 17:43 PandaMow wrote: P.S Id love to see England -_- but with only 1 true top player in DeMuslim its pretty unlikely we would do any good ;( I'd love to see that aswell, not sure why but whenever a english player is playing i usually root for him. Btw, Bling is pretty good aswell, no? | ||
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Savern101
United Kingdom859 Posts
On May 09 2011 18:09 WhiteraCares wrote: I'd love to see that aswell, not sure why but whenever a english player is playing i usually root for him. Btw, Bling is pretty good aswell, no? Dignitas has 3 Brit players including Bling and Apollo. Bling has potential, but he's still pretty new to the pro-scene. Demuslim is our one true hope at the moment. Can't wait to see him ripping faces off at Columbo. | ||
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goodfella
Germany23 Posts
Sweden is without a doubt the best SC2 country outside of Korea. Then Ukraine with White-Ra, Dimaga, Kas, Strelok. I Mean look at Streloks recent games, this guy barely loses anything and his Ladder record is insane. Plus EU Ladder has a better skill level than U.S.'s. 5 best swedes vs. 5 best of Ukraine could go either way at the moment, tho Thorzain and Nani would probably win their matches. Btw. don't understand why Idra is always hyped so much by Americans, don't think he could beat any of the Top10 europeans at the moment, e.g. Nani, Thorzain, Strelok, Dimaga, morrow, Sjow, Hasu.... | ||
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Hierarch
United States2197 Posts
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LeLfe
France3160 Posts
On May 09 2011 18:16 goodfella wrote: Btw. don't understand why Idra is always hyped so much by Americans, don't think he could beat any of the Top10 europeans at the moment, e.g. Nani, Thorzain, Strelok, Dimaga, morrow, Sjow, Hasu.... + Show Spoiler + He just beat White_Ra 2-0 in Stars War killer 6 | ||
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SuperStyle
United States976 Posts
On May 09 2011 18:16 goodfella wrote: As far as population goes you can compare U.S. to Europe and Europe >>>> U.S. Sweden is without a doubt the best SC2 country outside of Korea. Then Ukraine with White-Ra, Dimaga, Kas, Strelok. I Mean look at Streloks recent games, this guy barely loses anything and his Ladder record is insane. Plus EU Ladder has a better skill level than U.S.'s. 5 best swedes vs. 5 best of Ukraine could go either way at the moment, tho Thorzain and Nani would probably win their matches. Btw. don't understand why Idra is always hyped so much by Americans, don't think he could beat any of the Top10 europeans at the moment, e.g. Nani, Thorzain, Strelok, Dimaga, morrow, Sjow, Hasu.... Ofc he can, specially at the moment since he doesnt lose ZvP anymore like he did and is in a form with an IPL win, I mean its not like he would 4-0 them or like they can 4-0 him, they would all be hard games but he could beat them, although i do believe Naniwa would still crush him. That doesnt mean that in best of 7 he cant take a game off of him. | ||
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Zuor
Finland377 Posts
On May 09 2011 10:29 mikyaJ wrote: The US has far more players in the Top 100 ELO in TLPD than Sweden. ThorZain and Naniwa are killing it right now, but MorroW is not what he used to be, and Sjow is no better than [insert random NA player here] in his current form right now. Sheth, IdrA, Kawaiirice, Tyler, qxc, Response; but Sweden has others like Sase as well. The real 'numbers' country is Canada, afaik they have the most players in the Top 100 ELO atm, but no real superstar. As for my opinion, I think China, Ukraine, USA, Sweden, Canada, and Germany are the top countries. What? Sjow is still really, really good. He just recently won the Gathering beating players like Nightend and Sase and won ~5,5k USD. Easily better that a 'random NA player'. | ||
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Xeteh
United States589 Posts
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Pred8oar
Germany281 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
just kidding, like in every popular sport we're bad Im gonna go with sweden, because of Naniwa at the MLG, Jinro in the GSL, and I like MorroW | ||
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Caloooomi
Scotland188 Posts
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Zedders
Canada450 Posts
2.Ukraine 3. Germany 4. Canada 5.USA | ||
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Umilard
Sweden38 Posts
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MyLastSerenade
Germany710 Posts
On May 09 2011 18:54 Zedders wrote: 1.Sweden 2.Ukraine 3. Germany 4. Canada 5.USA I think the same. Sweden is so powerfull atm.. | ||
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goodfella
Germany23 Posts
On May 09 2011 18:25 SuperStyle wrote: Ofc he can, specially at the moment since he doesnt lose ZvP anymore like he did and is in a form with an IPL win, I mean its not like he would 4-0 them or like they can 4-0 him, they would all be hard games but he could beat them, although i do believe Naniwa would still crush him. That doesnt mean that in best of 7 he cant take a game off of him. Who besides Select (who Idra has beaten in IPL) is comparable to the Players I named as Top10 Europeans? | ||
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Ruscour
5233 Posts
Team: mOOnGLaDe, mOOnGLaDe, mOOnGLaDe but seriously, Ukraine > Sweden > Germany/USA/Canada imo | ||
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Sneakyz
Sweden2361 Posts
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SuperStyle
United States976 Posts
On May 09 2011 19:54 goodfella wrote: Who besides Select (who Idra has beaten in IPL) is comparable to the Players I named as Top10 Europeans? Ok if i understand this: 1. U said idra cant beat top 10 europeans 2. I said that he can beat probably all except Naniwa 3. Ur asking me who besides select and idra is comparable to top 10 europeans ??? - i dont quite get where this came from tbh, bit of a stupid question to ask seeing my response in previous post. Anyways to answer ur question: no one | ||
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CrazyBanana
10 Posts
No one is saying France is bad, but they are not the best, which this thread asks for. That is exactly what we are saying. | ||
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Punkstar
Slovakia522 Posts
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Project Psycho
United Kingdom329 Posts
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berr0n!
Germany59 Posts
On May 09 2011 06:09 Kyles92 wrote: England, Demuslim. true | ||
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ffadicted
United States3545 Posts
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Joozaf
Estonia22 Posts
Sweden would be a close second. | ||
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HeLToFF
Sweden11 Posts
I think we also, atleast for the moment have the best lineup and hopefully it will stay that way for a while =) | ||
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Pocketsocks
United States192 Posts
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Mowr
Sweden791 Posts
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57 Corvette
Canada5941 Posts
Sweden and Ukraine are pretty self explanitory Where Germany has skill USA makes up in pure numbers, and then theres Canada. | ||
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aznboi918
United States70 Posts
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Xodushai
Sweden174 Posts
Jinro, MorroW, Sjow, NaNiwa, ThorZaIN, Sase, Lalush, jimpo, Naugrim etc. 2 MLG victories, 2 IEM victories, final 2 in TSL 3 are swedish, Jinro GSL semi twice etc. | ||
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
Feels shitty to be a Swede and sucking hardcore at the game though, need to live up to my nation, get my shit together. | ||
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h41fgod
Sweden377 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50585 Posts
On May 09 2011 04:00 Horse...falcon wrote: Ukraine's pretty beastly. WhiteRa, Dimaga, Strelok, Kas Sweden's probably the winner Morrow, Jinro, Thorzain, Naniwa, Sjow Canada Huk, Kiwikaki, TT1, Drewbie, lots of others Germany TLO, Hasuobs, Darkforce, Socke Mondragon for germany. FFS how could you forget mondragon. | ||
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Subversion
South Africa3627 Posts
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Megakenny
Canada829 Posts
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Davildo
Sweden21 Posts
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
On May 09 2011 04:02 mr_tolkien wrote: Nobody thinks France is quite up there ? Adelscott, Stephano, Moman, Song, Sarens would make quite an ace team... EDIT : I think Sweden is first, but that France is underrated. We could add Carn, Soju, and Aures. but as you could see in nationwars, thats not close to ukraine or germany and not even top5 i think so far its Sweden, Germany, Ukraine in the top3 followed by USA and then its start getting close perhaps russia to better see: sweden: Jinro, MorroW, Sjow, NaNiwa, ThorZaIN, Sase, jimpo, Naugrim, haypro etc. (no i dont think lalush ^^) ukraine: kas strelok white-ra dimaga germany: socke mondragon goody hasuobs tlo darkforce ... not mention delphi inuh xlord mardow naruto miou rine farmer and hopefully soon infernal etc etc | ||
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Comet702
China236 Posts
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viii
United States266 Posts
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xrayEU
Sweden571 Posts
OT: Sweden has the best pro lineup atm. | ||
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Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
On May 09 2011 22:53 Davildo wrote: OP needs a poll! I second this! But like someone earlier said just look at the pricemonzey from each country. | ||
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
On May 09 2011 22:56 Comet702 wrote: seems no one metioned China~! cause i cant see a single top chinese player, loner one of the best chinese is no europe top | ||
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DivineSC
United States128 Posts
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Glioburd
France1911 Posts
On May 09 2011 04:02 mr_tolkien wrote: Nobody thinks France is quite up there ? Adelscott, Stephano, Moman, Song, Sarens would make quite an ace team... EDIT : I think Sweden is first, but that France is underrated. We could add Carn, Soju, and Aures. Wow Tolkien I don't agree. Players who have european level in France are Adel, SarenS and Stephano. I think we can add KenZy and MoMaN when they are in a good shape. AureS can egually snipe some top european players. And that's ALL. SonG is of course not bad, but It's totally not the same level... Soju don't play competitively so not at all. And cArn... LOL. | ||
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Demand2k
Norway875 Posts
Sucks that we don't have a single one from Norway | ||
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rsvp
United States2266 Posts
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FreshVegetables
Finland513 Posts
2. Ukraina 3. Germany 4. USA 5. Canada | ||
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BRaegO
United States243 Posts
2.Ukraine 3.USA/Canada tie IMO 4.Germany | ||
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Pred8oar
Germany281 Posts
2. Ukraine 3. Germany 4. USA 5. Canada | ||
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Huragius
Lithuania1506 Posts
Lithuania, obviously. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
. | ||
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goodfella
Germany23 Posts
On May 09 2011 20:36 SuperStyle wrote: Ok if i understand this: 1. U said idra cant beat top 10 europeans 2. I said that he can beat probably all except Naniwa 3. Ur asking me who besides select and idra is comparable to top 10 europeans ??? - i dont quite get where this came from tbh, bit of a stupid question to ask seeing my response in previous post. Anyways to answer ur question: no one I referred to the IPL win obv, that was your only proof that Idra is in shape right now as it seems. None of the players he has beaten there is on the same level as the players i mentioned in my first post?! | ||
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SuperStyle
United States976 Posts
On May 09 2011 23:40 goodfella wrote: I referred to the IPL win obv, that was your only proof that Idra is in shape right now as it seems. None of the players he has beaten there is on the same level as the players i mentioned in my first post?! He beat socke, cloud and mana in nasl and he beat whitera like 2 days ago in star wars tournament. | ||
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ZeraToss
Germany1094 Posts
2. Ukraine 3. Germany 4. Canada ... 200. USA | ||
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kukarachaa
United States284 Posts
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thoradycus
Malaysia3262 Posts
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0ne
Spain2464 Posts
On May 09 2011 18:16 goodfella wrote: Btw. don't understand why Idra is always hyped so much by Americans, don't think he could beat any of the Top10 europeans at the moment, e.g. Nani, Thorzain, Strelok, Dimaga, morrow, Sjow, Hasu.... He maybe would have some troubles against some of the top european protoss like Naniwa but his ZvT and his ZvZ are unbeatable in a long game. | ||
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.Enigma.
Sweden1461 Posts
On May 09 2011 23:40 FeyFey wrote: Mondragon ^.^ oops a country ... well germany then hehe. Atleast this time you can't see that the OP is a sweden like the last time someone made such a thread .Yeah man, I hate it when the OP is a country. ^^ | ||
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RotterdaM
Netherlands684 Posts
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Mangemongen
Sweden125 Posts
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3DGlaDOS
Germany607 Posts
2. Ukraine ( Dimaga, kas, White Ra just so awesome) 3. Germany ( HasuObs, Socke, TLO, Mondragon, Darkforce ) 4. North America ( rated even imo) ( IdrA, Huk, TT1, Tyler ) | ||
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THEPPLsELBOW
United States190 Posts
idra > tlo qxc > goody, mondragon = tyler ide say also, select is better than every one of the aforementioned names >.> | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On May 10 2011 02:18 THEPPLsELBOW wrote: usa is better than germany idra > tlo qxc > goody, mondragon = tyler ide say also, select is better than every one of the aforementioned names >.> and he is Korean. He represents Korea in competitions, if u count him american, then count Huk and Jinro Korean | ||
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Glueburn
United States496 Posts
And just to be sure, Mondragon is from germany right? | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On May 10 2011 03:17 CampinSam wrote: I'm becoming a fan of Germany, but sweden is just tearing through everything. And just to be sure, Mondragon is from germany right? he is | ||
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pallad
Poland1958 Posts
On May 10 2011 02:01 wBsKillian wrote: 1. Sweden (Jinro, Morrow, nani, sjow, haypro, thorzain) 2. Ukraine ( Dimaga, kas, White Ra just so awesome) 3. Germany ( HasuObs, Socke, TLO, Mondragon, Darkforce ) 4. North America ( rated even imo) ( IdrA, Huk, TT1, Tyler ) Sorry for BM post but :p Haypro plays poor atm , he is good player but i think he got some crisis now . Diamond lv zerg NA is not country But yes 1. Sweden 2. Ukraine 3.Germany/USA 4.Poland and France has good lineup to , but not that good to compere whit top 3-4 | ||
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PraetorianX
Sweden780 Posts
For example - Sweden produces lots of excellent players, but why not Denmark, Finland and Norway? And Ukraine is a real powerhouse, but why not Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary and Belarus? | ||
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RoachyRoach
81 Posts
On May 09 2011 03:54 VoirDire wrote: Top 5 gotta be Sweden, Ukraine, Germany, US, Canada. clearly Canada > US US scared of canadas hallucinated voids ^^ | ||
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r3SpaVVn
Germany109 Posts
On May 09 2011 03:58 Kentakky wrote: Throw a World cup like every 4 years make it totally baller with all the best players in one big ass arena and let us find out ^_^ I think every year would be better as 4 years is such a long time to wait... and if you look at the lifespan of brood war, there may be just 2 or 3 world cups, that's not enough :D | ||
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Vectoor
Sweden62 Posts
Still, seeing the how the final of the tsl is swede v swede and how many tournament victories we have had recently it's hard not to brag. Ukraine, Canada and Germany all have strong lineups of course. I also feel that quite a few american players have started to show results lately. | ||
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Vectoor
Sweden62 Posts
On May 10 2011 03:25 PraetorianX wrote: What I find interesting is why some countries produce so many good players, and not others. For example - Sweden produces lots of excellent players, but why not Denmark, Finland and Norway? And Ukraine is a real powerhouse, but why not Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary and Belarus? Well, to be fair finland have Naama, Norway have Skruf (I think he's called? Ok, maybe they aren't too good) and Denmark have... eh, ActionJesus? :D Oh right, Ciara. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On May 10 2011 03:25 PraetorianX wrote: What I find interesting is why some countries produce so many good players, and not others. For example - Sweden produces lots of excellent players, but why not Denmark, Finland and Norway? And Ukraine is a real powerhouse, but why not Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary and Belarus? Well if u talk eastern europe, Romania has Nightend and deathangel and Ukraine's eastern big neighbour, Russia though a bit isolated, has many good players | ||
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Bobster
Germany3075 Posts
On May 09 2011 23:47 ZeraToss wrote: 1. Sweden 2. Ukraine 3. Germany 4. Canada ... 200. USA Please fill out the missing spots. On May 10 2011 02:01 wBsKillian wrote: 1. Sweden (Jinro, Morrow, nani, sjow, haypro, thorzain) 2. Ukraine ( Dimaga, kas, White Ra just so awesome) 3. Germany ( HasuObs, Socke, TLO, Mondragon, Darkforce ) 4. North America ( rated even imo) ( IdrA, Huk, TT1, Tyler ) C'mon man, don't be ignorant and lump in Canada with the USA. It's rude. | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
In terms of scenes, I'd say it's the US. Biggest leagues (NASL, IPL, MLG), most money prizes, highest viewer counts. The US SC 2 scene is also a lot more international in terms of the players who are able to to participate in it than any other scene in the world. So to that end, I would say that the US could become the center of SC 2 in the foreigner's scene, if not the world, if it continues on its current trajectory. | ||
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PraetorianX
Sweden780 Posts
On May 10 2011 03:39 Vectoor wrote: Well, to be fair finland have Naama, Norway have Skruf (I think he's called? Ok, maybe they aren't too good) and Denmark have... eh, ActionJesus? :D Oh right, Ciara. I think you just made my point | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
On May 10 2011 03:25 PraetorianX wrote: What I find interesting is why some countries produce so many good players, and not others. For example - Sweden produces lots of excellent players, but why not Denmark, Finland and Norway? And Ukraine is a real powerhouse, but why not Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary and Belarus? The size of an eSports scene has a lot to do with the gaming culture of a country. Sweden is not only a power house in SC 2, but also in CS, WC 3, etc. By contrast, most of the other countries you mentioned have no comparable gaming scenes. Hence, not as many top players. If you examine it carefully, the size and population of a country really has nothing to do with eSports success. India is the second most populous country in the world (~1.1 billion people), yet has no competitive gaming culture of note and does not register at all in the eSports scene. By contrast, Sweden has 9 million people, but has some of the best competitive gamers in the world in several games. It doesn't make sense until you look at the gaming culture. As for why the gaming cultures of certain countries are better than others, that's a much harder question, and has all sorts of answers, ranging from the availability of broadband to the decisions of commercial sponsors. | ||
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susySquark
United States1692 Posts
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raga4ka
Bulgaria5679 Posts
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Raid
United States398 Posts
All Jokes aside its pretty dumb considering Europe has the much better facilities and support than NA which is pretty unfair and predictable that EU players are of much higher quality. Any country that has a well developed e-sports scene will definitely be at the top. | ||
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PraetorianX
Sweden780 Posts
On May 10 2011 05:05 Raid wrote: For best player USA obviously if Blizzard would just balance the game for zerg Idra the worlds best player would be dominating everything. Idra might just be the world's best player, but it's also very possible that Naniwa is. Bo7 - Naniwa vs Idra. Best player in the world. Make it happen. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
On May 09 2011 10:29 mikyaJ wrote: The US has far more players in the Top 100 ELO in TLPD than Sweden. ThorZain and Naniwa are killing it right now, but MorroW is not what he used to be, and Sjow is no better than [insert random NA player here] in his current form right now. Sheth, IdrA, Kawaiirice, Tyler, qxc, Response; but Sweden has others like Sase as well. The real 'numbers' country is Canada, afaik they have the most players in the Top 100 ELO atm, but no real superstar. As for my opinion, I think China, Ukraine, USA, Sweden, Canada, and Germany are the top countries. Since there is no crossregion play, you can´t compare ELO points directly afaik. It´s like saying NA Grandmaster #1 is exactly as good as EU #1 or KR #1. It may very well be that KR #25 is as strong as NA #1 or something like that. As far as I heard the EU ladder is on average better(Idra said so). (Actually he said NA ladder is so bad he has to drink to feel any challenge) That said it´s hard to not rethink recent results. I like qxc, but he ain´t performing too well as of late. So if we for example take the NASL the only undoubtedly good americans are Idra & Sheth. Coincidentally both of them train on the EU ladder whenever they can. Then for germany there are Darkforce, Socke and HasuObs performing really well. And I hate Protoss. Why can´t we have awesome Terrans and more Zergs? | ||
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Ouga
Finland645 Posts
France, well sure they have some pretty good players. Just none of them are quite there as with Sweden, Ukraine and perhaps Germany. Seriously, it's jinro/morrow/naniwa/sjow or wra/dimaga/kas/strelok, you can't match that with any France setup. Germany seems to be clear 3rd in my books. | ||
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omgCRAZY
Canada551 Posts
Sweden definitely comes out on top but I could see the other 4 moving around depending on arguments and I am biased towards Canada. | ||
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Ouga
Finland645 Posts
On May 10 2011 03:25 PraetorianX wrote: What I find interesting is why some countries produce so many good players, and not others. For example - Sweden produces lots of excellent players, but why not Denmark, Finland and Norway? And Ukraine is a real powerhouse, but why not Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary and Belarus? Sweden is always pretty good when it comes to esports. I don't think Denmark/Norway ever have same amount of high caliber players than Sweden in almost any game? As a finn I can say that there are several very good players, but none are currently at very very top. Still there's 13 finns in grandmasters, so I wouldn't consider county as failure in sc2 | ||
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Sarang
Australia2363 Posts
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GenoPewPew
United States347 Posts
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sesmc
China61 Posts
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nhat
2 Posts
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DirtYLOu
575 Posts
On May 12 2011 10:56 nhat wrote: Yeah Sweden since it is one of the only countries beside KR that have e-sports larger than other countries. Yup, I Agree. | ||
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Noelani
55 Posts
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Sealgoarparp
Sweden8 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + But as some know, Rakaka.se just had a tournament, for the swedish top-players, with the firstprice: We send you to Korea to compete, and pay for it. Who won? SaSe, over Naniwa. 3-1. Sweden has more topnotch players then those that get mentioned in this thread. My ranking: 1. Sweden 2. Ukraine 3. Germany 4. USA 5. Canada The hardest to place is Germany and USA, they are so close in terms of skilled players. On any given day I think anyone of those 5 countries could take the title as "worlds best". Abit biased perhaps, but Sweden might have a slight slight edge, whatever day it is. | ||
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Omega.763
France34 Posts
... what ? OO | ||
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Nifel
706 Posts
On May 12 2011 11:07 Noelani wrote: China probably has the best pro players, Korea included. While I doubt they've got better pro players than Korea, I've just recently gotten some more insight into the Chinese scene and they've got what it takes for sure. Right now they might very well be second in total amount of high level players, and if there'll ever be a nation which catches up with Korea, it'll probably be China. | ||
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Utopianer
Germany19 Posts
Since i play online (started with Counter-Strike) i always read about swedish players (game independent). So for me ... SWEDEN is the biggest esport-Nation beside Korea. | ||
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Karakaxe
Sweden585 Posts
I guess Poland or Ukraine could be on very similar levels now? P.S sorry for bumping but this is very interesting to me! | ||
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Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
On December 28 2011 22:51 Karakaxe wrote: This thread was created in may this year. Soon 2011 is over and I wonder if most people still think Sweden is the number 1 country outside Korea? I guess Poland or Ukraine could be on very similar levels now? P.S sorry for bumping but this is very interesting to me! I don't think Poland has changed that much, I think France has got better however but I would still say it's about the same. | ||
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Hagg
Sweden27 Posts
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bmml
United Kingdom962 Posts
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Yaki
France4234 Posts
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Naniwa
Sweden477 Posts
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Yaki
France4234 Posts
On December 28 2011 22:56 bmml wrote: Sweden -> Ukr/Pol/Fra/Chi -> Ger at the moment (imo), but I personally think the gap between Sweden and the rest is smaller than most people think. Fra only has Stephano and ToD to a lesser extent. Sarens and Adelscott were doing quite well after the release but then they kinda went in a slump | ||
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OutlaW-
Czech Republic5053 Posts
On May 12 2011 21:53 Nifel wrote: While I doubt they've got better pro players than Korea, I've just recently gotten some more insight into the Chinese scene and they've got what it takes for sure. Right now they might very well be second in total amount of high level players, and if there'll ever be a nation which catches up with Korea, it'll probably be China. Yea. Next is Taiwan. Asian work ethic ~ | ||
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Zeon0
Austria2995 Posts
I would say Sweden, Ukraine, Germany, USA, Canada, in this order. But I cant judge China, there might be a lot of good players we never heard of. | ||
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Hagg
Sweden27 Posts
On December 28 2011 22:58 Zeon0 wrote: France has just Stephano. I mean he is great, but one player does not make a good Nation. I would say Sweden, Ukraine, Germany, USA, Canada, in this order. But I cant judge China, there might be a lot of good players we never heard of. ToD fool!!!!!!!! :p | ||
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RPR_Tempest
Australia7798 Posts
ThorZaIN, SjoW, NaNiwa, SaSe, Jinro, MorroW, HayprO. Cytoplasm and Bischu are pretty good too. | ||
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Hagg
Sweden27 Posts
Thorzain SaSe MorroW/Sjow Haypro What I wouldn't give to see Sweden compete as a team in the GSTL. Artosis could lead us, honorary swede! | ||
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n0btozz
Iceland115 Posts
2. Ukraine 3. USA 4-5. Germany/Canada | ||
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
I would still say Sweden/Ukraine. | ||
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bbm
United Kingdom1320 Posts
On December 28 2011 22:53 eYeball wrote: I don't think Poland has changed that much, I think France has got better however but I would still say it's about the same. Nerchio's performance has improved since may, most notably his IPL2 performance where he dropped out of winners bracket in the first round, but then killed everyone who is anyone in the losers bracket and took 2nd place. Also a bunch of invitational wins and other assorted gubbins He's not perfect yet, but poland's looking a lot better for his rise. Mana's also been stomping shit lately. | ||
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pStar
996 Posts
Demuslim and Apollo ALL KILL. TB cheerleader. | ||
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Tarotis
Germany1931 Posts
On December 28 2011 23:10 pStar wrote: UK. Demuslim and Apollo ALL KILL. TB cheerleader. Bling would like to have a word with you! | ||
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Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
On December 28 2011 22:57 Naniwa wrote: someone should make a nations cup with good prizepool. I second this! | ||
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Meteora.GB
Canada2479 Posts
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thezanursic
5497 Posts
Sweden + Show Spoiler + Ukrain and USA behind | ||
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Willba
United Kingdom209 Posts
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fcgog
United Kingdom876 Posts
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DeadBull
421 Posts
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Garnet
Vietnam9031 Posts
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nooboon
2602 Posts
Canada has some great players but no one amazing or outstanding. The U.S has idra but outside of him they are similar to the Canadians (Not including huk or select) | ||
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antilyon
Brazil2546 Posts
On December 28 2011 23:14 fcgog wrote: Ukraine, Sweden ,Poland ,Germany I'd add France to the list too. They have stephano, ToD and Adelscott. | ||
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Mitchlew
Australia428 Posts
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mki
Poland882 Posts
I'm truly shocked that people are ranking the US so highly. France, Ukraine, Germany, Poland all outclass the US in my eyes pretty convincingly. | ||
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xrapture
United States1644 Posts
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michielbrands
Netherlands1146 Posts
SaSe, Naniwa, HayprO, Thorzain, Jinro, SjoW, Morrow. 2nd Canada: Kiwikaki, TT1, HuK 3rd Ukrain: White-Ra, Strelok, Dimaga, Kas, Bfly, 4/5th Poland: Nerchio, Tarson, MaNa, 4/5th USA: Tyler, IdrA, qxc. Sheth 6th Germany: TLO, HasuObs, GoOdy, Socke, DarkForce | ||
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unlmtd
Germany76 Posts
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Jombozeus
China1014 Posts
The second tier is Canada, US, Poland, Taiwan, and France. Again, probably able to take each other out in a BO9. These countries can probably also take out the first tier on a good day. China and Taiwan are currently very separated from the "foreign" scene, so this may not be totally accurate. My guess is mostly on anecdotal evidence from myself, others, the few international competitions involving China/Taiwan, but mostly on the Korean ladder ranking of known Chinese players/players with simplified or traditional Chinese names. | ||
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michielbrands
Netherlands1146 Posts
On December 28 2011 23:21 mki wrote: Sweden by far I'm truly shocked that people are ranking the US so highly. France, Ukraine, Germany, Poland all outclass the US in my eyes pretty convincingly. How can france with only Stephano / ToD outclass the likes of IdrA, Sheth, Tyler, qxc, and so on? | ||
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Hardigan
Switzerland1297 Posts
On December 28 2011 23:24 michielbrands wrote: How can france with only Stephano / ToD outclass the likes of IdrA, Sheth, Tyler, qxc, and so on? what about Huk and select? You can count Huk as both, US and Canadian and Select as US and Korean | ||
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BlitzerSC
Italy8800 Posts
1) Sweden 2) Ukrain 3) China 4) Poland 5) Canada 6) Germany 7) France 6) Russia 7) USA 8) Italy ( only one player LOL ) 9) Netherland 10) Spain On December 28 2011 23:26 Hardigan wrote: what about Huk and select? You can count Huk as both, US and Canadian and Select as US and Korean NO, Select is not american. Same for HuK. edit: On December 28 2011 23:42 BlitzerSC wrote: Yeah, I completly forgot about Ret. To be honest i don't think that Grubby is better than ClouD but Ret is ! | ||
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Elem
Sweden4717 Posts
On December 28 2011 23:24 michielbrands wrote: MoMan and Adelscott too. And tbfh you'd not even bring QXC to a top american team list, if you wanted best terran.How can france with only Stephano / ToD outclass the likes of IdrA, Sheth, Tyler, qxc, and so on? | ||
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Mentalizor
Denmark1596 Posts
On December 28 2011 23:24 michielbrands wrote: How can france with only Stephano / ToD outclass the likes of IdrA, Sheth, Tyler, qxc, and so on? Tons of other french players?  AdelscottMoMaNSarenSEdit: That was to justify the french. That being said both nations have quite a bit of 'good' players - but in the aspect of great players I think both countries can only manage 2-4 players, while e.g. Sweden can line quite a bit more. | ||
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Reasonable
Ukraine1432 Posts
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Ryps
Romania2740 Posts
On December 28 2011 23:24 michielbrands wrote: How can france with only Stephano / ToD outclass the likes of IdrA, Sheth, Tyler, qxc, and so on? Stephano, tod, adelscott, sarens, moman are pretty damn good. You listed tyler I see... should have listed incontrol too then | ||
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KriptoKnight
United States6 Posts
MoMaN? really? | ||
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hyperknight
294 Posts
2) Sweden (Thorzain, Naniwa, Morrow, Sase, Sjow, Naugrim, Lalush, Merz, Bischu) 3) Ukraine (Kas, Dimaga, Whitera, Strelok, HappyZerg, Bly) Definitely in this order. Chinese players, while few are far too skilled to be beaten by any european/american lineup. Sweden players definitely come second with powerhouses like morrow/sase/thorzain/naniwa. After that my pick would go to the eastern europeaners like kas, dimaga, whitera, strelok. france is possibly #4 with adelscott/stephano/tod/moman/sarens/carn. | ||
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KinQuh
Finland810 Posts
On December 28 2011 23:27 Mentalizor wrote: Tons of other french players? AdelscottMoMaNSarenSEdit: That was to justify the french. That being said both nations have quite a bit of 'good' players - but in the aspect of great players I think both countries can only manage 2-4 players, while e.g. Sweden can line quite a bit more. France also got SarenS | ||
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plouer
France32 Posts
you can't put incontrol a in a list of great player like stephano or Idra he is a important member of the community but that's all american have some good player like idra and sheth, very nice streamer like destiny, but many of them are really overated Incontrol is one of the best exemple. and for the top 10 i would put netherland higher with grubby and ret who both play really really good | ||
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swordboy
Canada299 Posts
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MrMercuG
Netherlands2389 Posts
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Mo0Rauder
Canada182 Posts
but it's all from poker... somewhere around $200,000 someone correct me if I'm wrong.I would say for my top 5 in no particular order: Ukraine Sweden Canada China Germany | ||
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BlitzerSC
Italy8800 Posts
On December 28 2011 23:40 plouer wrote: OMG you can't put incontrol a in a list of great player like stephano or Idra he is a important member of the community but that's all american have some good player like idra and sheth, very nice streamer like destiny, but many of them are really overated Incontrol is one of the best exemple. and for the top 10 i would put netherland higher with grubby and ret who both play really really good Yeah, I completly forgot about Ret. To be honest i don't think that Grubby is better than ClouD but Ret is ! | ||
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soulist
United States932 Posts
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hyperknight
294 Posts
On December 28 2011 23:28 Ryps wrote: Stephano, tod, adelscott, sarens, moman are pretty damn good. You listed tyler I see... should have listed incontrol too then I too would rate France over the US for sure. Idra, qxc and Sheth are probably the only ones worth mentioning. tyler/incontrol have totally failed in 2012. I would put stephano/tod/adelscott/sarens/carn/moman over idra/sheth/qxc/tyler/incontrol/destiny. Others may differ, but thats definitely my opinion. | ||
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JoeAWESOME
Sweden1080 Posts
Thorzain, Naniwa, Sjow, Sase, Merz, MorroW, Jinro, Haypro, Bischu, Cytoplasm, Naugrim and some lesser Swedish players (still good though) Lalush, Seiplo, Runa, Forsen | ||
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Gool
Argentina204 Posts
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FatBat
Germany326 Posts
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Gurafity
Luxembourg20 Posts
But yeah, Sweden first followed by Ukraine. | ||
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Hardigan
Switzerland1297 Posts
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Batch
Sweden692 Posts
I will give the format away for free! * Played online to make as many players as possible be able to play. * Tournament stretch over a month which gives sponsors a lot of exposure. * Single elimination bracket. * Each game day two countries battle it out with 7 BO3 to decide who is the best. * The player picking the map also picks the server to use. * Price money needed to bring the best players should be about $11.900 (1:st $7000, 2:nd $3500, 3:rd $1400). * Casted live from replays to make it as easy as possible to schedule the games. Let it happen! | ||
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Ragoo
Germany2773 Posts
Sweden, Ukraine, Poland, Germany, USA,... I don't wanna rank China, so little we know about their scene. | ||
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harobi
Germany56 Posts
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Benga
Korea (South)471 Posts
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KinQuh
Finland810 Posts
On December 28 2011 23:40 plouer wrote: OMG you can't put incontrol a in a list of great player like stephano or Idra he is a important member of the community but that's all american have some good player like idra and sheth, very nice streamer like destiny, but many of them are really overated Incontrol is one of the best exemple. and for the top 10 i would put netherland higher with grubby and ret who both play really really good You put netherlands but you dont mention RotterdaM  | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3460 Posts
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mrafaeldie12
Brazil537 Posts
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Grovbolle
Denmark3811 Posts
On December 29 2011 00:07 KinQuh wrote: You put netherlands but you dont mention RotterdaM RotterdaM is not a pro player, he is a good caster and a pretty good player, but he is not a pro (like he was back in WC3) | ||
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AusBox
Australia214 Posts
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SkyTheUnknown
Germany2065 Posts
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Macpo
453 Posts
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KinQuh
Finland810 Posts
On December 29 2011 00:09 Grovbolle wrote: RotterdaM is not a pro player, he is a good caster and a pretty good player, but he is not a pro (like he was back in WC3) Rotti is a masters player even though he cant play as much as he would like! | ||
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3DGlaDOS
Germany607 Posts
On December 29 2011 00:18 KinQuh wrote: Rotti is a masters player even though he cant play as much as he would like! According to this I also would be a pro. My Ranking: 1.Sweden 2. Ukraine 3. Poland 4. Germany 5. USA/Canada | ||
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FuRong
New Zealand3089 Posts
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Testuser
6469 Posts
On December 28 2011 23:38 hyperknight wrote: 1) China (Xiaot, Xigua, Lovecd, Lovett, F91... this list is far too good to be compared with any other country) 2) Sweden (Thorzain, Naniwa, Morrow, Sase, Sjow, Naugrim, Lalush, Merz, Bischu) 3) Ukraine (Kas, Dimaga, Whitera, Strelok, HappyZerg, Bly) Definitely in this order. Chinese players, while few are far too skilled to be beaten by any european/american lineup. Sweden players definitely come second with powerhouses like morrow/sase/thorzain/naniwa. After that my pick would go to the eastern europeaners like kas, dimaga, whitera, strelok. france is possibly #4 with adelscott/stephano/tod/moman/sarens/carn. I have to completely disagree with you on the "China is the best outside of Korea" thing. I think that's complete bogus. I have no idea how you are going to back that statement up. Sweden is the best outside of Korea imo. Ukraine, Poland, France and Germany are all very good too. | ||
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Huge O
Great Britain95 Posts
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CallousCarter
United Kingdom81 Posts
On December 28 2011 23:38 hyperknight wrote: 1) China (Xiaot, Xigua, Lovecd, Lovett, F91... this list is far too good to be compared with any other country) 2) Sweden (Thorzain, Naniwa, Morrow, Sase, Sjow, Naugrim, Lalush, Merz, Bischu) 3) Ukraine (Kas, Dimaga, Whitera, Strelok, HappyZerg, Bly) Definitely in this order. Chinese players, while few are far too skilled to be beaten by any european/american lineup. Sweden players definitely come second with powerhouses like morrow/sase/thorzain/naniwa. After that my pick would go to the eastern europeaners like kas, dimaga, whitera, strelok. france is possibly #4 with adelscott/stephano/tod/moman/sarens/carn. I'm no expert on the Chinese scene but a lot of the Swedish players have proved they can go toe to toe with Koreans, haven't seen the Chinese apart from xigua and loner (back in the day) do that. My top 5 would be 1) Sweden 2) Ukraine 3) China 4) Germany 5) Poland If you're including Huk and Select as American then i would put them USA above Poland but i find it pretty difficult to separate USA/Canada/France/Poland. | ||
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StarVe
Germany13591 Posts
On December 29 2011 00:01 Batch wrote: We seriously need a nations cup. I will give the format away for free! * Played online to make as many players as possible be able to play. * Tournament stretch over a month which gives sponsors a lot of exposure. * Single elimination bracket. * Each game day two countries battle it out with 7 BO3 to decide who is the best. * The player picking the map also picks the server to use. * Price money needed to bring the best players should be about $11.900 (1:st $7000, 2:nd $3500, 3:rd $1400). * Casted live from replays to make it as easy as possible to schedule the games. Let it happen! Something similar is starting soon, with the [ESL] Country Championship 2012! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=297273 I think Sweden, Ukraine and Poland are the powerhouses. Russia, Germany, France follow. Maybe China should be somewhere in there, too, but I haven't seen chinese players very often. Canada, too, I guess. | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50585 Posts
On December 29 2011 00:01 Batch wrote: We seriously need a nations cup. I will give the format away for free! * Played online to make as many players as possible be able to play. * Tournament stretch over a month which gives sponsors a lot of exposure. * Single elimination bracket. * Each game day two countries battle it out with 7 BO3 to decide who is the best. * The player picking the map also picks the server to use. * Price money needed to bring the best players should be about $11.900 (1:st $7000, 2:nd $3500, 3:rd $1400). * Casted live from replays to make it as easy as possible to schedule the games. Let it happen! I'm surprised theres no nation wars for SC2 yet. nation wars was one of the best things ever. | ||
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FooDSoldOne
Germany27 Posts
Ukraine (a couple of veeeery good players) Sweden (with germany the best foreign nation. lots of good players) US (not as good as the other but they have sooooo many player so there are a couple of good ones to | ||
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MHT
Sweden1026 Posts
On December 29 2011 00:47 StarVe wrote: Something similar is starting soon! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=297273 Only problem is Korea/Sweden/China is missing! Its like the special olympics! jkjk | ||
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Naniwa
Sweden477 Posts
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Aundasch
Germany38 Posts
Ukraine Sweden Germany France US | ||
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Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
It should go South Korea Sweden Ukraine Canada/Germany USA | ||
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monx
Canada1400 Posts
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SkyTheUnknown
Germany2065 Posts
On December 29 2011 00:52 FooDSoldOne wrote: Germany (i think the nation with the most gm's and an incredible roster of players in EAS and EPS) Ukraine (a couple of veeeery good players) Sweden (with germany the best foreign nation. lots of good players) US (not as good as the other but they have sooooo many player so there are a couple of good ones to Do I understand you correct that you are saying that Germany is the best foreign nation with Sweden? I would like to hear your reasoning for this. There must be a very special reason or you are not very well informed about the international SC 2 scene (by the way, who cares about EAS/EPS?). Just to provide you with some facts: Since the release of SC II not a single german player has placed #1 or #2 in a Premier Tournament (listed on Liquidpedia) and even in the section of Major Tournaments, there are few winnings when you cut out EPS, which should be cut out, because it's almost german-exclusive. | ||
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Jombozeus
China1014 Posts
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Champi
1422 Posts
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
On December 29 2011 01:00 Jombozeus wrote: I'm surprised Germany is so high up the list. Maybe I don't know well enough, but whom is qualified to be in their star lineup other than TLO, darkforce, goody, hasu? You forgot Socke, but I agree that Germany doesn't belong at the top. | ||
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Hardigan
Switzerland1297 Posts
On December 29 2011 01:02 Forikorder wrote: with IdrA, Select, HuK and stephano i think America has the best line up aside from korea you forgot day9, apparently he is a super ladder gosu... | ||
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Hassybaby
United Kingdom10823 Posts
On December 29 2011 01:00 Jombozeus wrote: I'm surprised Germany is so high up the list. Maybe I don't know well enough, but whom is qualified to be in their star lineup other than TLO, darkforce, goody, hasu? Socke deserves mention in there as well. Mondragon too, to a point | ||
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Malaz
Germany1257 Posts
I don't know the Chinese players well enough so I won't put them in the equation.A+: Top foreigner able to beat almost every top Korean in a Bo3 = 5 points A: Still one of the best foreigners, just a step away from A+ = 3 points B+: Player between A and B = 2,5 points B: Very strong player that can win online cups but no big lans = 2 points C+: Player between B and C = 1,5 points C: Players with great potential that haven't delivered results yet or players that used to be higher but are currently in a little slump = 1 point Sweden: Naniwa A+, SaSe A, ThorZain A, MorroW B+, SjoW B, Bischu B, hayprO B, Merz C+, Jinro C+, Seiplo C, Jimpo C, LaLush C, Naugrim C = 26,5 Canada: HuK A+, Kiwikaki B+, SLush B, TT1 C+, Drewbie C+, dde C, Ostojiy C = 14,5 USA: Idra A, Sheth B+, qxc C+, Gatored C+,Tyler C, Pokebunny C Machine C, iNcontroL C, KawaiiRice C, Painuser C = 14,5 Ukraine: White-Ra A, Dimaga A, Kas A, Strelok B+, Bly C+, HappyZerg C = 14 Germany HasuObs B+, Socke B+, GoOdy B+, TLO B, Darkforce C+, XlorD C+, Mondragon C = 13,5 France: Stephano A+, ToD B+, SarenS C+, Adelscott C+, MoMan C 11,5 Poland: Nerchio A, Mana A, Tarson B+, DieStar C, Paranoid C =10,5 Russia: BratOk B+, Happy B, Titan C, Pomi C, Abver C, LiveZerg C, HasHe C = 9,5 Netherlands: Ret A, Grubby B+, DaBoO C = 6,5 UK: DeMusliM A, BlinG C+, Pureball C = 5,5 Finland: Elfi B+, Welmu C+, Naama C+ ,Satiini C = 5,5 Australia: mOOnGlaDe B, Iaguz C+, tgun C = 4,5 Romania: Nightend B, Deathangel C+ = 3,5 Peru: Fenix B, CatZ C = 3 Serbia: Beastyqt B+ =2,5 Chile: KiLLeR B+ = 2,5 Italy: Cloud B = 2 Denmark: BabyKnight C, Ciara C = 2 Spain: Lucifron C+ = 1,5 Belarus: LoWeLy C+ = 1,5 Israel: Osho C+ =1,5 Norway: Snute = 1,5 Switzerland: biGs C = 1 Belgium: Orly C = 1 I'm sure I missed some players and keep in mind the ranking is very subjective . Also the ranking system itself doesn't necessarily provide the beste Sc2 nations besides Korea and China. Although I think it's quite safe to say it's Sweden no matter how you look at it | ||
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Karakaxe
Sweden585 Posts
Again, why why Sweden? Finland, Norway and Denmark are all very simmilar countries to Sweden, where are their players? Seems like nobody knows. Its not like they got internet 10 years after sweden. And how come Germany isnt more domimant? | ||
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SeraKuDA
Canada343 Posts
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hyperknight
294 Posts
On December 29 2011 00:47 CallousCarter wrote: I'm no expert on the Chinese scene but a lot of the Swedish players have proved they can go toe to toe with Koreans, haven't seen the Chinese apart from xigua and loner (back in the day) do that. My top 5 would be 1) Sweden 2) Ukraine 3) China 4) Germany 5) Poland If you're including Huk and Select as American then i would put them USA above Poland but i find it pretty difficult to separate USA/Canada/France/Poland. No way Swedish and Ukrainian players are as good as Chinese. The world's not heard of most Chinese players because of how closed that community is and also because most pple focus only on Korea. F91/Xigua/Xiaot are probably the only know Chinese names. After seeing some random practice replays of Chinese players, I can very comfortably say they're as good if not better than a lot of the Korean names (not MVP/MMA etc but definitely the Clides/Supernovas etc of the Korean scene). Th way things are going remind me very much of what happened in warcraft 3 - everyone focused solely on Korea. foreigners went to Korea to compete and get better. Korean strategies got learnt and emulated and revised upon by foreigners who took them abroad after team collaborations (such as EG-Slayers/TL-oGs). Korean were extremely strong early in WC3 due to team houses and replays not being released (hence practice strategies or builds not being disclosed), but with the influx of foreigners into team houses learning all this stuff, everything became public once they finished training/when they went back to their home countries and had foreign teams building team houses in their foreign countries. Amongst all this mess, China, which experiences zero lag to the Korean servers remained secluded, while having all their own team houses and being secluded from the rest of the Korean/foreign teams. And that lead to China coming out ahead - of course other factors such as how insanely hardworking Chinese players generally are etc. But the current scenario reminds me of wc3's early days. The shift of power in tournament results went from Korea -> Korea/EU -> China -> the legendary Moon (lol). I cant wait for the Chinese team to enter the GSL/GTSL in 2012's second season. Hopefully we will see China bursting onto the sc2 scene in 2012 =) I personally cannot wait as this is nothing but good news for fans/viewers. | ||
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SeraKuDA
Canada343 Posts
On December 29 2011 01:10 Karakaxe wrote: Ok so most people still say Sweden. Again, why why Sweden? Finland, Norway and Denmark are all very simmilar countries to Sweden, where are their players? Seems like nobody knows. Its not like they got internet 10 years after sweden. And how come Germany isnt more domimant? Sweden is about double the population of Finland, Denmark, and Norway. | ||
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Hardigan
Switzerland1297 Posts
On December 29 2011 01:07 Malaz wrote: So lets do this with a point system. I know this doesn't make the whole thing any less subjective, but I'm bored right now I don't know the Chinese players well enough so I won't put them in the equation.A+: Top foreigner able to beat almost every top Korean in a Bo3 = 5 points A: Still one of the best foreigners, just a step away from A+ = 3 points B+: Player between A and B = 2,5 points B: Very strong player that can win online cups but no big lans = 2 points C+: Player between B and C = 1,5 points C: Players with great potential that haven't delivered results yet or players that used to be higher but are currently in a little slump = 1 point Sweden: Naniwa A+, SaSe A, ThorZain A, MorroW B+, SjoW B, Bischu B, hayprO B, Merz C+, Jinro C+, Seiplo C, Jimpo C, LaLush C, Naugrim C = 26,5 Canada: HuK A+, Kiwikaki B+, SLush B, TT1 C+, Drewbie C+, dde C, Ostojiy C = 14,5 USA: Idra A, Sheth B+, qxc C+, Gatored C+,Tyler C, Pokebunny C Machine C, iNcontroL C, KawaiiRice C, Painuser C = 14,5 Ukraine: White-Ra A, Dimaga A, Kas A, Strelok B+, Bly C+, HappyZerg C = 14 Germany HasuObs B+, Socke B+, GoOdy B+, TLO B, Darkforce C+, XlorD C+, Mondragon C = 13,5 France: Stephano A+, ToD B+, SarenS C+, Adelscott C+, MoMan C 11,5 Poland: Nerchio A, Mana A, Tarson B+, DieStar C, Paranoid C =10,5 Russia: BratOk B+, Happy B, Titan C, Pomi C, Abver C, LiveZerg C, HasHe C = 9,5 Netherlands: Ret A, Grubby B+, DaBoO C = 6,5 UK: DeMusliM A, BlinG C+, Pureball C = 5,5 Finland: Elfi B+, Welmu C+, Naama C+ ,Satiini C = 5,5 Australia: mOOnGlaDe B, Iaguz C+, tgun C = 4,5 Romania: Nightend B, Deathangel C+ = 3,5 Peru: Fenix B, CatZ C = 3 Serbia: Beastyqt B+ =2,5 Chile: KiLLeR B+ = 2,5 Italy: Cloud B = 2 Denmark: BabyKnight C, Ciara C = 2 Spain: Lucifron C+ = 1,5 Belarus: LoWeLy C+ = 1,5 Israel: Osho C+ =1,5 Switzerland: biGs C = 1 Belgium: Orly C = 1 I'm sure I missed some players and keep in mind the ranking is very subjective. Also the ranking system itself doesn't necessarly provide the beste Sc2 nations besides Korea and China. Although I think it's quite safe to say it's Sweden no matter how you look at it USA has like 20 more C players that will get them +20 points so US is the best non-korean esport country? sry, there is only 1 possible way to solve this problem and that is a GSTL-like tournament | ||
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Hassybaby
United Kingdom10823 Posts
On December 29 2011 01:10 Karakaxe wrote: Ok so most people still say Sweden. Again, why why Sweden? Finland, Norway and Denmark are all very simmilar countries to Sweden, where are their players? Seems like nobody knows. Its not like they got internet 10 years after sweden. And how come Germany isnt more domimant? Norway is too busy enjoying their countryside :D Finland has a few notable players (elfi and Naama to name 2) | ||
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Tryxtira
Sweden572 Posts
I am obviously bias, but I feel Sweden is definitely second to Korea. However I'd say the second best nation is the US. IdrA/HuK/Sheth can take games off anyone in the world. | ||
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Klyberess
Sweden345 Posts
On December 29 2011 01:16 Tryxtira wrote: I don't really agree with putting Ukraine as high up as many do. Dimaga is an amazing player but Kas/White-ra isn't really up there at the top. I am obviously bias, but I feel Sweden is definitely second to Korea. However I'd say the second best nation is the US. IdrA/HuK/Sheth can take games off anyone in the world. Isn't HuK canadian? | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On December 28 2011 23:03 n0btozz wrote: 1. Sweden 2. Ukraine 3. USA 4-5. Germany/Canada I would put US either last, or not at all. Besides IdrA, who do we have that's good and on a level with Sweden, Ukraine or Canada and Germany? | ||
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KinQuh
Finland810 Posts
On December 29 2011 01:07 Malaz wrote: So lets do this with a point system. I know this doesn't make the whole thing any less subjective, but I'm bored right now I don't know the Chinese players well enough so I won't put them in the equation.A+: Top foreigner able to beat almost every top Korean in a Bo3 = 5 points A: Still one of the best foreigners, just a step away from A+ = 3 points B+: Player between A and B = 2,5 points B: Very strong player that can win online cups but no big lans = 2 points C+: Player between B and C = 1,5 points C: Players with great potential that haven't delivered results yet or players that used to be higher but are currently in a little slump = 1 point Sweden: Naniwa A+, SaSe A, ThorZain A, MorroW B+, SjoW B, Bischu B, hayprO B, Merz C+, Jinro C+, Seiplo C, Jimpo C, LaLush C, Naugrim C = 26,5 Canada: HuK A+, Kiwikaki B+, SLush B, TT1 C+, Drewbie C+, dde C, Ostojiy C = 14,5 USA: Idra A, Sheth B+, qxc C+, Gatored C+,Tyler C, Pokebunny C Machine C, iNcontroL C, KawaiiRice C, Painuser C = 14,5 Ukraine: White-Ra A, Dimaga A, Kas A, Strelok B+, Bly C+, HappyZerg C = 14 Germany HasuObs B+, Socke B+, GoOdy B+, TLO B, Darkforce C+, XlorD C+, Mondragon C = 13,5 France: Stephano A+, ToD B+, SarenS C+, Adelscott C+, MoMan C 11,5 Poland: Nerchio A, Mana A, Tarson B+, DieStar C, Paranoid C =10,5 Russia: BratOk B+, Happy B, Titan C, Pomi C, Abver C, LiveZerg C, HasHe C = 9,5 Netherlands: Ret A, Grubby B+, DaBoO C = 6,5 UK: DeMusliM A, BlinG C+, Pureball C = 5,5 Finland: Elfi B+, Welmu C+, Naama C+ ,Satiini C = 5,5 Australia: mOOnGlaDe B, Iaguz C+, tgun C = 4,5 Romania: Nightend B, Deathangel C+ = 3,5 Peru: Fenix B, CatZ C = 3 Serbia: Beastyqt B+ =2,5 Chile: KiLLeR B+ = 2,5 Italy: Cloud B = 2 Denmark: BabyKnight C, Ciara C = 2 Spain: Lucifron C+ = 1,5 Belarus: LoWeLy C+ = 1,5 Israel: Osho C+ =1,5 Norway: Snute = 1,5 Switzerland: biGs C = 1 Belgium: Orly C = 1 I'm sure I missed some players and keep in mind the ranking is very subjective . Also the ranking system itself doesn't necessarily provide the beste Sc2 nations besides Korea and China. Although I think it's quite safe to say it's Sweden no matter how you look at it You just made an arbitrary list that doesnt even make sense.In what universe incontrol is better than Snute or drewbie better than beastyqt. | ||
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Hassybaby
United Kingdom10823 Posts
On December 29 2011 01:16 Tryxtira wrote: I don't really agree with putting Ukraine as high up as many do. Dimaga is an amazing player but Kas/White-ra isn't really up there at the top. I am obviously bias, but I feel Sweden is definitely second to Korea. However I'd say the second best nation is the US. IdrA/HuK/Sheth can take games off anyone in the world. Oh cmon, coming third in WCG does't qualify you as a top player? | ||
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Hider
Denmark9407 Posts
On December 29 2011 01:12 Hardigan wrote: USA has like 20 more C players that will get them +20 points so US is the best non-korean esport country? sry, there is only 1 possible way to solve this problem and that is a GSTL-like tournament Yes its a bad way to do it, and for some reason he decided to give Jinro C+. Wtf lol, jinro atm is at least A. | ||
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Luepert
United States1933 Posts
Are you Korean? Yes=your really good no... Are you Swedish? Yes= your pretty good no=you suck | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
On December 29 2011 01:16 Tryxtira wrote: I don't really agree with putting Ukraine as high up as many do. Dimaga is an amazing player but Kas/White-ra isn't really up there at the top. I am obviously bias, but I feel Sweden is definitely second to Korea. However I'd say the second best nation is the US. IdrA/HuK/Sheth can take games off anyone in the world. Kas and White-ra are much better than Sheth, and Huk is arguably Canadian. | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On December 29 2011 01:26 Hassybaby wrote: Oh cmon, coming third in WCG does't qualify you as a top player? Ptak isn't even on the chart and he won his countries (Croatia) WCG. | ||
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00Visor
4337 Posts
On December 29 2011 01:16 Tryxtira wrote: I don't really agree with putting Ukraine as high up as many do. Dimaga is an amazing player but Kas/White-ra isn't really up there at the top. I am obviously bias, but I feel Sweden is definitely second to Korea. However I'd say the second best nation is the US. IdrA/HuK/Sheth can take games off anyone in the world. Kas is in exceptional form at the moment. There is a reasons he is #1 in foreigner TLPD. | ||
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CallousCarter
United Kingdom81 Posts
On December 29 2011 01:16 Tryxtira wrote: I don't really agree with putting Ukraine as high up as many do. Dimaga is an amazing player but Kas/White-ra isn't really up there at the top. I am obviously bias, but I feel Sweden is definitely second to Korea. However I'd say the second best nation is the US. IdrA/HuK/Sheth can take games off anyone in the world. White-ra has the tournament results to match almost any foreigner and don't for Strelok in the Ukrainian line-up. I'm sure there was an interview where Huk said he considered himself Canadian even if he was born and raised in America. That's a debatable issue. America has a lot of good but not great players but I suspect there's players equal to them in a lot of the european countries who don't get noticed as much because of the way IEM and dreamhack work compared to MLG. | ||
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Elefanto
Switzerland3584 Posts
On December 29 2011 01:29 GreEny K wrote: Ptak isn't even on the chart and he won his countries (Croatia) WCG. What are you talking about? | ||
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KinQuh
Finland810 Posts
On December 29 2011 01:32 CallousCarter wrote: White-ra has the tournament results to match almost any foreigner and don't for Strelok in the Ukrainian line-up. I'm sure there was an interview where Huk said he considered himself Canadian even if he was born and raised in America. That's a debatable issue. America has a lot of good but not great players but I suspect there's players equal to them in a lot of the european countries who don't get noticed as much because of the way IEM and dreamhack work compared to MLG. They have idra and sheth,who are these decent players you are talking about? | ||
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Arcanefrost
Belgium1257 Posts
On December 29 2011 01:07 Malaz wrote: Belgium: Orly C = 1 He was second in mlg openbracket,losing 2-1 to mvpnoblesse, and he has won vs idra and huk. He's more than c | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
The chart that someone made, Ptak won his countries qualifiers and he isn't even on the chart. Just saying that it is flawed. | ||
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KinQuh
Finland810 Posts
On December 29 2011 01:34 Arcanefrost wrote: He was second in mlg openbracket,losing 2-1 to mvpnoblesse, and he has won vs idra and huk. He's more than c Thank god somebody knows about Orly. | ||
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Xcobidoo
Sweden1871 Posts
Player A of Country A vs Player A of Country B. I would say, albeit biased: 1. Sweden, 2. Ukraine, 3. Poland 4. USA but I want to say China because of WCG but then again I want to put China much lower because of every other tournament ever. 5. - | ||
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CallousCarter
United Kingdom81 Posts
On December 29 2011 01:33 KinQuh wrote: Gatored, Kawaiirice, TriMaster, State, Pokebunny. Also whether you class Select as American or Korean could tip the scales. They have idra and sheth,who are these decent players you are talking about? | ||
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phANT1m
South Africa535 Posts
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On December 29 2011 01:38 CallousCarter wrote: Gatored, Kawaiirice, TriMaster, Pokebunny. Also whether you class Select as American or Korean could tip the scales. Why do people keep placing Pokebunny in the top of US... I seriously doubt he is. I would put State over him. | ||
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KinQuh
Finland810 Posts
On December 29 2011 01:38 CallousCarter wrote: Gatored, Kawaiirice, TriMaster, Pokebunny. Also whether you class Select as American or Korean could tip the scales. Have they ever won anything? And no Select is not american. | ||
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TBone-
United States2309 Posts
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Kyuki
Sweden1867 Posts
On December 29 2011 01:10 Karakaxe wrote: Ok so most people still say Sweden. Again, why why Sweden? Finland, Norway and Denmark are all very simmilar countries to Sweden, where are their players? Seems like nobody knows. Its not like they got internet 10 years after sweden. And how come Germany isnt more domimant? But they do have quite different infrastructure compared to Sweden and the culture is different. We've had very strong network infrastructured compared to most nations and that plays a big role I belive. We also have a leading IT culture and very strong IT companies that will just make people be around computers and games more than other kids, which also could be a big reason. In the end I dont think it's even possible to conclude anything, but there are probably several factors that end up beeing important when it comes to puting out more talent onto the scene. | ||
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BlitzerSC
Italy8800 Posts
On December 29 2011 01:07 Malaz wrote: So lets do this with a point system. I know this doesn't make the whole thing any less subjective, but I'm bored right now I don't know the Chinese players well enough so I won't put them in the equation.A+: Top foreigner able to beat almost every top Korean in a Bo3 = 5 points A: Still one of the best foreigners, just a step away from A+ = 3 points B+: Player between A and B = 2,5 points B: Very strong player that can win online cups but no big lans = 2 points C+: Player between B and C = 1,5 points C: Players with great potential that haven't delivered results yet or players that used to be higher but are currently in a little slump = 1 point Sweden: Naniwa A+, SaSe A, ThorZain A, MorroW B+, SjoW B, Bischu B, hayprO B, Merz C+, Jinro C+, Seiplo C, Jimpo C, LaLush C, Naugrim C = 26,5 Canada: HuK A+, Kiwikaki B+, SLush B, TT1 C+, Drewbie C+, dde C, Ostojiy C = 14,5 USA: Idra A, Sheth B+, qxc C+, Gatored C+,Tyler C, Pokebunny C Machine C, iNcontroL C, KawaiiRice C, Painuser C = 14,5 Ukraine: White-Ra A, Dimaga A, Kas A, Strelok B+, Bly C+, HappyZerg C = 14 Germany HasuObs B+, Socke B+, GoOdy B+, TLO B, Darkforce C+, XlorD C+, Mondragon C = 13,5 France: Stephano A+, ToD B+, SarenS C+, Adelscott C+, MoMan C 11,5 Poland: Nerchio A, Mana A, Tarson B+, DieStar C, Paranoid C =10,5 Russia: BratOk B+, Happy B, Titan C, Pomi C, Abver C, LiveZerg C, HasHe C = 9,5 Netherlands: Ret A, Grubby B+, DaBoO C = 6,5 UK: DeMusliM A, BlinG C+, Pureball C = 5,5 Finland: Elfi B+, Welmu C+, Naama C+ ,Satiini C = 5,5 Australia: mOOnGlaDe B, Iaguz C+, tgun C = 4,5 Romania: Nightend B, Deathangel C+ = 3,5 Peru: Fenix B, CatZ C = 3 Serbia: Beastyqt B+ =2,5 Chile: KiLLeR B+ = 2,5 Italy: Cloud B = 2 Denmark: BabyKnight C, Ciara C = 2 Spain: Lucifron C+ = 1,5 Belarus: LoWeLy C+ = 1,5 Israel: Osho C+ =1,5 Norway: Snute = 1,5 Switzerland: biGs C = 1 Belgium: Orly C = 1 I'm sure I missed some players and keep in mind the ranking is very subjective . Also the ranking system itself doesn't necessarily provide the beste Sc2 nations besides Korea and China. Although I think it's quite safe to say it's Sweden no matter how you look at it I don't understand how you gave those votes. I mean... are really TLO, Killer, Fenix, Sheth, Moonglade, Slush and Haypro at the same level ( or better ) as ClouD and Sjow ? I don't know, for me they aren't ( Sjow and ClouD are better) but of course everyone has his own opinion. Just wanted to point that out ^^ edit: Also i think that Darkforce is better than TLO, Killer, Fenix, Slush and Moonglade edit2: BTW, i think that judging a player skill only with personal achievment is wrong. You need to go deeper ( looking at the opponents, when the games were played ) but it's impossible to do. It would take too much time ^^ | ||
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mki
Poland882 Posts
On December 28 2011 23:24 michielbrands wrote: How can france with only Stephano / ToD outclass the likes of IdrA, Sheth, Tyler, qxc, and so on? Adelscott, Moman, SarenS, Stephano, ToD... | ||
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KinQuh
Finland810 Posts
Why people even list Tyler, he has no achievements in starcraft2. | ||
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mki
Poland882 Posts
On December 29 2011 01:07 Malaz wrote: So lets do this with a point system. I know this doesn't make the whole thing any less subjective, but I'm bored right now I don't know the Chinese players well enough so I won't put them in the equation.A+: Top foreigner able to beat almost every top Korean in a Bo3 = 5 points A: Still one of the best foreigners, just a step away from A+ = 3 points B+: Player between A and B = 2,5 points B: Very strong player that can win online cups but no big lans = 2 points C+: Player between B and C = 1,5 points C: Players with great potential that haven't delivered results yet or players that used to be higher but are currently in a little slump = 1 point Sweden: Naniwa A+, SaSe A, ThorZain A, MorroW B+, SjoW B, Bischu B, hayprO B, Merz C+, Jinro C+, Seiplo C, Jimpo C, LaLush C, Naugrim C = 26,5 Canada: HuK A+, Kiwikaki B+, SLush B, TT1 C+, Drewbie C+, dde C, Ostojiy C = 14,5 USA: Idra A, Sheth B+, qxc C+, Gatored C+,Tyler C, Pokebunny C Machine C, iNcontroL C, KawaiiRice C, Painuser C = 14,5 Ukraine: White-Ra A, Dimaga A, Kas A, Strelok B+, Bly C+, HappyZerg C = 14 Germany HasuObs B+, Socke B+, GoOdy B+, TLO B, Darkforce C+, XlorD C+, Mondragon C = 13,5 France: Stephano A+, ToD B+, SarenS C+, Adelscott C+, MoMan C 11,5 Poland: Nerchio A, Mana A, Tarson B+, DieStar C, Paranoid C =10,5 Russia: BratOk B+, Happy B, Titan C, Pomi C, Abver C, LiveZerg C, HasHe C = 9,5 Netherlands: Ret A, Grubby B+, DaBoO C = 6,5 UK: DeMusliM A, BlinG C+, Pureball C = 5,5 Finland: Elfi B+, Welmu C+, Naama C+ ,Satiini C = 5,5 Australia: mOOnGlaDe B, Iaguz C+, tgun C = 4,5 Romania: Nightend B, Deathangel C+ = 3,5 Peru: Fenix B, CatZ C = 3 Serbia: Beastyqt B+ =2,5 Chile: KiLLeR B+ = 2,5 Italy: Cloud B = 2 Denmark: BabyKnight C, Ciara C = 2 Spain: Lucifron C+ = 1,5 Belarus: LoWeLy C+ = 1,5 Israel: Osho C+ =1,5 Norway: Snute = 1,5 Switzerland: biGs C = 1 Belgium: Orly C = 1 I'm sure I missed some players and keep in mind the ranking is very subjective . Also the ranking system itself doesn't necessarily provide the beste Sc2 nations besides Korea and China. Although I think it's quite safe to say it's Sweden no matter how you look at it Yeah I really don't agree with your rankings although the idea itself is good. | ||
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TumNarDok
Germany854 Posts
(for whats it worth to go by, since the entries are selective and retired players may be included - still gives a good idea because those effects should even out except for the secluded area that is China) KR 2389 SE 2261 UA 2220,6 DE 2210 US 2198,8 PL 2197,4 RU 2190,8 CN 2171,2 CA 2166 FR 2158,4 AU 2146,2 TW 2132 FI 2122,6 CZ 2041,2 Runners up with less than 5 entries UK, NL, NO, BE, DK, ES, SG, RO, IT, BR | ||
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Zanno
United States1484 Posts
excluding korea, if you were to put swedish sc pros against any other country in a winner's league bo11 format, Sweden would win almost every time. A country like Canada would have to have an S class player like Huk all-kill or close to all-kill to win. but if we're just looking at the top 3 players from each respective country, then countries like Ukraine, US, and France suddenly look a lot stronger | ||
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xi Tempest x
Scotland340 Posts
then ukraine, then germany IMO | ||
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JoeAWESOME
Sweden1080 Posts
Jinro, MorroW, SaSe, Haypro, Sjow, Thorzain, Naniwa, Merz, Bischu, Cytoplasm We also have lesser known players that are really good! Seiplo, Naugrim, Forsen, Runa... Now lets imagine this sick tournament. 10 nation tournament with some of the best players in the world. Bo7, All kill format! Team Sweden (Jinro, MorroW, SaSe, Naniwa, Thorzain, Haypro) Team Germany (TLO, Socke, Goody, Hasuhobs, Darkforce, Delphi) Team Ukraine (WhiteRa, Dimaga, Kas, Strelok, HappyZerg, Bly) Team Poland (Nerchio, Mana, DieStar, Tarson, SliDeR, ParanOid) Team Canada (Huk, KiwiKaki, DDE, Slush, TT1, Drewbie) Team USA (Idra, Sheth, Vibe, QXC, Tyler, Gatored) Team France (Stephano, SarenS, Adelscott, Tod, Carn, Kenzy) Team China (Xigua, MacSeed, Infi, TooDming, Loner, F91) Team Korea (Nestea, MVP, MMA, MC, DRG, Leenock) Team Russia (Brat_OK, TitaN, HappyZerg, + 3 more ) Obviously this would be played out live (like the GSTL). If this would happend then it would be by far the sickest tournament in the very young Sc2 history! | ||
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upperbound
United States2300 Posts
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hunts
United States2113 Posts
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Kluey
Canada1197 Posts
Anyways, Canada has never been touched by E-sports. All the NA events happen in USA so obviously there's more players there. I think in the future Canada will have a much stronger line up. | ||
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Kaitokid
Germany1327 Posts
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bubblegumbo
Taiwan1296 Posts
Also lol at the guy that did all the random European nations with 1 or 2 guys, but not Sen. | ||
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halfies
United Kingdom327 Posts
On December 29 2011 01:43 BlitzerSC wrote: I don't understand how you gave those votes. I mean... are really TLO, Killer, Fenix, Sheth, Moonglade, Slush and Haypro at the same level ( or better ) as ClouD and Sjow ? I don't know, for me they aren't ( Sjow and ClouD are better) but of course everyone has his own opinion. Just wanted to point that out ^^ edit: Also i think that Darkforce is better than TLO, Killer, Fenix, Slush and Moonglade edit2: BTW, i think that judging a player skill only with personal achievment is wrong. You need to go deeper ( looking at the opponents, when the games were played ) but it's impossible to do. It would take too much time ^^ thorzain must be A+, didnt he all kill QIM in the IPL TAC finals? | ||
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red4ce
United States7313 Posts
On December 29 2011 01:07 Malaz wrote: So lets do this with a point system. I know this doesn't make the whole thing any less subjective, but I'm bored right now I don't know the Chinese players well enough so I won't put them in the equation.A+: Top foreigner able to beat almost every top Korean in a Bo3 = 5 points A: Still one of the best foreigners, just a step away from A+ = 3 points B+: Player between A and B = 2,5 points B: Very strong player that can win online cups but no big lans = 2 points C+: Player between B and C = 1,5 points C: Players with great potential that haven't delivered results yet or players that used to be higher but are currently in a little slump = 1 point Sweden: Naniwa A+, SaSe A, ThorZain A, MorroW B+, SjoW B, Bischu B, hayprO B, Merz C+, Jinro C+, Seiplo C, Jimpo C, LaLush C, Naugrim C = 26,5 Canada: HuK A+, Kiwikaki B+, SLush B, TT1 C+, Drewbie C+, dde C, Ostojiy C = 14,5 USA: Idra A, Sheth B+, qxc C+, Gatored C+,Tyler C, Pokebunny C Machine C, iNcontroL C, KawaiiRice C, Painuser C = 14,5 Ukraine: White-Ra A, Dimaga A, Kas A, Strelok B+, Bly C+, HappyZerg C = 14 Germany HasuObs B+, Socke B+, GoOdy B+, TLO B, Darkforce C+, XlorD C+, Mondragon C = 13,5 France: Stephano A+, ToD B+, SarenS C+, Adelscott C+, MoMan C 11,5 Poland: Nerchio A, Mana A, Tarson B+, DieStar C, Paranoid C =10,5 Russia: BratOk B+, Happy B, Titan C, Pomi C, Abver C, LiveZerg C, HasHe C = 9,5 Netherlands: Ret A, Grubby B+, DaBoO C = 6,5 UK: DeMusliM A, BlinG C+, Pureball C = 5,5 Finland: Elfi B+, Welmu C+, Naama C+ ,Satiini C = 5,5 Australia: mOOnGlaDe B, Iaguz C+, tgun C = 4,5 Romania: Nightend B, Deathangel C+ = 3,5 Peru: Fenix B, CatZ C = 3 Serbia: Beastyqt B+ =2,5 Chile: KiLLeR B+ = 2,5 Italy: Cloud B = 2 Denmark: BabyKnight C, Ciara C = 2 Spain: Lucifron C+ = 1,5 Belarus: LoWeLy C+ = 1,5 Israel: Osho C+ =1,5 Norway: Snute = 1,5 Switzerland: biGs C = 1 Belgium: Orly C = 1 I'm sure I missed some players and keep in mind the ranking is very subjective . Also the ranking system itself doesn't necessarily provide the beste Sc2 nations besides Korea and China. Although I think it's quite safe to say it's Sweden no matter how you look at it I don't care for nitpicking your list but I am curious as to what South Korea's score would be under your system. Probably over 100. | ||
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hunts
United States2113 Posts
On December 29 2011 02:15 halfies wrote: thorzain must be A+, didnt he all kill QIM in the IPL TAC finals? By that logic Idra would be A+ as well since he was and is again in code S while thorzain couldn't make it past 1 round of code A. | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On December 29 2011 02:19 hunts wrote: By that logic Idra would be A+ as well since he was and is again in code S while thorzain couldn't make it past 1 round of code A. But Idra was offered the spot, Thorzain has to do it the hard way. | ||
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WightyCity
Canada887 Posts
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hunts
United States2113 Posts
On December 29 2011 02:21 GreEny K wrote: But Idra was offered the spot, Thorzain has to do it the hard way. Idra originally got into code S the normal way and he never dropped out of code S before he left though. And by that token, thorzain was offered his code A spot that he lost in 1 round, he didn't go thru code B which is the hard way. | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
On December 29 2011 02:19 hunts wrote: By that logic Idra would be A+ as well since he was and is again in code S while thorzain couldn't make it past 1 round of code A. Idras code S spot is a relic from a year ago, it has literally no meaning in the power of today and Idra has yet to prove himself again in Korea. Or do you think Jinro is the best foreigner still because of what happened a year ago? | ||
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Culture
Canada488 Posts
Also, taking more than top 5 players from each country, unless the country has more than 5 A class players is just like reaching into the unknown to fish out semi popular names. We're talking about the heavy hitters. Would a country with 400 C class players really be #1? | ||
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Elem
Sweden4717 Posts
Probably Sweden though, more depth in their lineup. | ||
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Grovbolle
Denmark3811 Posts
On December 29 2011 00:18 KinQuh wrote: Rotti is a masters player even though he cant play as much as he would like! As mentioned, there are a lot of master players. I am not saying Rotti is a bad player (how would I know), I just said he isn't a pro either. He makes his money casting the game, not playing it, there in lies the difference.. ( I <3 Rotti's casting, but he is not a professional gamer anymore, he is good though) | ||
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GWBuffalo
United States234 Posts
I think he was born and raised in Florida... then moved to Canada at about 15 or 16, iirc. | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On December 29 2011 02:23 hunts wrote: Idra originally got into code S the normal way and he never dropped out of code S before he left though. And by that token, thorzain was offered his code A spot that he lost in 1 round, he didn't go thru code B which is the hard way. Good point, but I still think that it was easier to get into code S when IdrA did it, the game has developed a lot more since then and IdrA has been in the US for a while so he has missed out on some Korean training. I don't think he will make it far, or keep his stop for long. | ||
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AsnSensation
Germany24009 Posts
On December 29 2011 01:07 Malaz wrote: So lets do this with a point system. I know this doesn't make the whole thing any less subjective, but I'm bored right now I don't know the Chinese players well enough so I won't put them in the equation.A+: Top foreigner able to beat almost every top Korean in a Bo3 = 5 points A: Still one of the best foreigners, just a step away from A+ = 3 points B+: Player between A and B = 2,5 points B: Very strong player that can win online cups but no big lans = 2 points C+: Player between B and C = 1,5 points C: Players with great potential that haven't delivered results yet or players that used to be higher but are currently in a little slump = 1 point Sweden: Naniwa A+, SaSe A, ThorZain A, MorroW B+, SjoW B, Bischu B, hayprO B, Merz C+, Jinro C+, Seiplo C, Jimpo C, LaLush C, Naugrim C = 26,5 Canada: HuK A+, Kiwikaki B+, SLush B, TT1 C+, Drewbie C+, dde C, Ostojiy C = 14,5 USA: Idra A, Sheth B+, qxc C+, Gatored C+,Tyler C, Pokebunny C Machine C, iNcontroL C, KawaiiRice C, Painuser C = 14,5 Ukraine: White-Ra A, Dimaga A, Kas A, Strelok B+, Bly C+, HappyZerg C = 14 Germany HasuObs B+, Socke B+, GoOdy B+, TLO B, Darkforce C+, XlorD C+, Mondragon C = 13,5 France: Stephano A+, ToD B+, SarenS C+, Adelscott C+, MoMan C 11,5 Poland: Nerchio A, Mana A, Tarson B+, DieStar C, Paranoid C =10,5 Russia: BratOk B+, Happy B, Titan C, Pomi C, Abver C, LiveZerg C, HasHe C = 9,5 Netherlands: Ret A, Grubby B+, DaBoO C = 6,5 UK: DeMusliM A, BlinG C+, Pureball C = 5,5 Finland: Elfi B+, Welmu C+, Naama C+ ,Satiini C = 5,5 Australia: mOOnGlaDe B, Iaguz C+, tgun C = 4,5 Romania: Nightend B, Deathangel C+ = 3,5 Peru: Fenix B, CatZ C = 3 Serbia: Beastyqt B+ =2,5 Chile: KiLLeR B+ = 2,5 Italy: Cloud B = 2 Denmark: BabyKnight C, Ciara C = 2 Spain: Lucifron C+ = 1,5 Belarus: LoWeLy C+ = 1,5 Israel: Osho C+ =1,5 Norway: Snute = 1,5 Switzerland: biGs C = 1 Belgium: Orly C = 1 I'm sure I missed some players and keep in mind the ranking is very subjective . Also the ranking system itself doesn't necessarily provide the beste Sc2 nations besides Korea and China. Although I think it's quite safe to say it's Sweden no matter how you look at it I dont even know what to say about that list. First it's not objective at all and second it's totally flawed. I think such a system is useless in the first place anyway I personally think it's: SK->Sweden,Ukraine->Poland,Germany+NA if we count USA+Canada as one team which includes both Huk and Idra | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On December 29 2011 02:36 AsnSensation wrote: + Show Spoiler + On December 29 2011 01:07 Malaz wrote: So lets do this with a point system. I know this doesn't make the whole thing any less subjective, but I'm bored right now I don't know the Chinese players well enough so I won't put them in the equation.A+: Top foreigner able to beat almost every top Korean in a Bo3 = 5 points A: Still one of the best foreigners, just a step away from A+ = 3 points B+: Player between A and B = 2,5 points B: Very strong player that can win online cups but no big lans = 2 points C+: Player between B and C = 1,5 points C: Players with great potential that haven't delivered results yet or players that used to be higher but are currently in a little slump = 1 point Sweden: Naniwa A+, SaSe A, ThorZain A, MorroW B+, SjoW B, Bischu B, hayprO B, Merz C+, Jinro C+, Seiplo C, Jimpo C, LaLush C, Naugrim C = 26,5 Canada: HuK A+, Kiwikaki B+, SLush B, TT1 C+, Drewbie C+, dde C, Ostojiy C = 14,5 USA: Idra A, Sheth B+, qxc C+, Gatored C+,Tyler C, Pokebunny C Machine C, iNcontroL C, KawaiiRice C, Painuser C = 14,5 Ukraine: White-Ra A, Dimaga A, Kas A, Strelok B+, Bly C+, HappyZerg C = 14 Germany HasuObs B+, Socke B+, GoOdy B+, TLO B, Darkforce C+, XlorD C+, Mondragon C = 13,5 France: Stephano A+, ToD B+, SarenS C+, Adelscott C+, MoMan C 11,5 Poland: Nerchio A, Mana A, Tarson B+, DieStar C, Paranoid C =10,5 Russia: BratOk B+, Happy B, Titan C, Pomi C, Abver C, LiveZerg C, HasHe C = 9,5 Netherlands: Ret A, Grubby B+, DaBoO C = 6,5 UK: DeMusliM A, BlinG C+, Pureball C = 5,5 Finland: Elfi B+, Welmu C+, Naama C+ ,Satiini C = 5,5 Australia: mOOnGlaDe B, Iaguz C+, tgun C = 4,5 Romania: Nightend B, Deathangel C+ = 3,5 Peru: Fenix B, CatZ C = 3 Serbia: Beastyqt B+ =2,5 Chile: KiLLeR B+ = 2,5 Italy: Cloud B = 2 Denmark: BabyKnight C, Ciara C = 2 Spain: Lucifron C+ = 1,5 Belarus: LoWeLy C+ = 1,5 Israel: Osho C+ =1,5 Norway: Snute = 1,5 Switzerland: biGs C = 1 Belgium: Orly C = 1 I'm sure I missed some players and keep in mind the ranking is very subjective . Also the ranking system itself doesn't necessarily provide the beste Sc2 nations besides Korea and China. Although I think it's quite safe to say it's Sweden no matter how you look at it I dont even know what to say about that list. First it's not objective at all and second it's totally flawed. I think such a system is useless in the first place anyway I personally think it's: SK->Sweden,Ukraine->Poland,Germany I'd agree with that ranking. Of course we would have to see a lot more of Chine to know where to throw them in, but I have a feeling they would be right behind SK. | ||
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KinQuh
Finland810 Posts
On December 29 2011 02:33 Grovbolle wrote: As mentioned, there are a lot of master players. I am not saying Rotti is a bad player (how would I know), I just said he isn't a pro either. He makes his money casting the game, not playing it, there in lies the difference.. ( I <3 Rotti's casting, but he is not a professional gamer anymore, he is good though) Dont mind that im just a Rotti fanboy :3 | ||
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Kluey
Canada1197 Posts
On December 29 2011 02:23 hunts wrote: Idra originally got into code S the normal way and he never dropped out of code S before he left though. And by that token, thorzain was offered his code A spot that he lost in 1 round, he didn't go thru code B which is the hard way. Code S then and Code S now a so extremely different. Code B might be closer to the Code S of that time. | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On December 29 2011 02:36 AsnSensation wrote: + Show Spoiler + On December 29 2011 01:07 Malaz wrote: So lets do this with a point system. I know this doesn't make the whole thing any less subjective, but I'm bored right now I don't know the Chinese players well enough so I won't put them in the equation.A+: Top foreigner able to beat almost every top Korean in a Bo3 = 5 points A: Still one of the best foreigners, just a step away from A+ = 3 points B+: Player between A and B = 2,5 points B: Very strong player that can win online cups but no big lans = 2 points C+: Player between B and C = 1,5 points C: Players with great potential that haven't delivered results yet or players that used to be higher but are currently in a little slump = 1 point Sweden: Naniwa A+, SaSe A, ThorZain A, MorroW B+, SjoW B, Bischu B, hayprO B, Merz C+, Jinro C+, Seiplo C, Jimpo C, LaLush C, Naugrim C = 26,5 Canada: HuK A+, Kiwikaki B+, SLush B, TT1 C+, Drewbie C+, dde C, Ostojiy C = 14,5 USA: Idra A, Sheth B+, qxc C+, Gatored C+,Tyler C, Pokebunny C Machine C, iNcontroL C, KawaiiRice C, Painuser C = 14,5 Ukraine: White-Ra A, Dimaga A, Kas A, Strelok B+, Bly C+, HappyZerg C = 14 Germany HasuObs B+, Socke B+, GoOdy B+, TLO B, Darkforce C+, XlorD C+, Mondragon C = 13,5 France: Stephano A+, ToD B+, SarenS C+, Adelscott C+, MoMan C 11,5 Poland: Nerchio A, Mana A, Tarson B+, DieStar C, Paranoid C =10,5 Russia: BratOk B+, Happy B, Titan C, Pomi C, Abver C, LiveZerg C, HasHe C = 9,5 Netherlands: Ret A, Grubby B+, DaBoO C = 6,5 UK: DeMusliM A, BlinG C+, Pureball C = 5,5 Finland: Elfi B+, Welmu C+, Naama C+ ,Satiini C = 5,5 Australia: mOOnGlaDe B, Iaguz C+, tgun C = 4,5 Romania: Nightend B, Deathangel C+ = 3,5 Peru: Fenix B, CatZ C = 3 Serbia: Beastyqt B+ =2,5 Chile: KiLLeR B+ = 2,5 Italy: Cloud B = 2 Denmark: BabyKnight C, Ciara C = 2 Spain: Lucifron C+ = 1,5 Belarus: LoWeLy C+ = 1,5 Israel: Osho C+ =1,5 Norway: Snute = 1,5 Switzerland: biGs C = 1 Belgium: Orly C = 1 I'm sure I missed some players and keep in mind the ranking is very subjective . Also the ranking system itself doesn't necessarily provide the beste Sc2 nations besides Korea and China. Although I think it's quite safe to say it's Sweden no matter how you look at it I dont even know what to say about that list. First it's not objective at all and second it's totally flawed. I think such a system is useless in the first place anyway I personally think it's: SK->Sweden,Ukraine->Poland,Germany+NA if we count USA+Canada as one team which includes both Huk and Idra I would not count them as one, I don't see a reason to. Two separate countries. | ||
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THM
Bulgaria1131 Posts
On December 29 2011 02:19 red4ce wrote: I don't care for nitpicking your list but I am curious as to what South Korea's score would be under your system. Probably over 100. Yeah, I'd like to see the Korean score as well, that would be fun Also, I like the list a lot, I think it's very accurate. | ||
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Lewan72
United States381 Posts
On December 29 2011 02:19 red4ce wrote: I don't care for nitpicking your list but I am curious as to what South Korea's score would be under your system. Probably over 100. I don't think tossing in random no-name pro-gamers should count. Remember its not all about quantity. | ||
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Durp
Canada3117 Posts
On December 29 2011 02:19 red4ce wrote: I don't care for nitpicking your list but I am curious as to what South Korea's score would be under your system. Probably over 100. South Korea's power levels are OVER NINE THOUSAND This power ranking idea is not viable. How do you assign value to players? Do we value their achievements in the past or only recent ones? How is Stephano an A+ while Idra is an A and Jinro is a C+ (those two have earned their way into Code-S before spots were just given to people)? QXC has an all-kill of Koreans, how is he rated lower than Bischu, who has done nothing in the Korean scene? Dimaga was the first to beat NesTea's ZvZ when the prospect of that ever happening was unheard of. Does that not qualify him for an A+? Also, fanboyism makes assigning unbiased value to players essentially impossible | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On December 29 2011 02:40 Lewan72 wrote: I don't think tossing in random no-name pro-gamers should count. Remember its not all about quantity. We would have to take ALL of the players that play SC2 in each country and then find the average skill level, and then do that for each country. Would be the only fair way. | ||
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Krallman
Sweden713 Posts
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TheMenace
Germany244 Posts
On December 29 2011 02:19 red4ce wrote: I don't care for nitpicking your list but I am curious as to what South Korea's score would be under your system. Probably over 100. Over 9000!! | ||
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isleyofthenorth
Austria894 Posts
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discobaas
225 Posts
On December 29 2011 02:04 JoeAWESOME wrote: Sweden! We have so many talented players! Jinro, MorroW, SaSe, Haypro, Sjow, Thorzain, Naniwa, Merz, Bischu, Cytoplasm We also have lesser known players that are really good! Seiplo, Naugrim, Forsen, Runa... Now lets imagine this sick tournament. 10 nation tournament with some of the best players in the world. Bo7, All kill format! Team Sweden (Jinro, MorroW, SaSe, Naniwa, Thorzain, Haypro) Team Germany (TLO, Socke, Goody, Hasuhobs, Darkforce, Delphi) Team Ukraine (WhiteRa, Dimaga, Kas, Strelok, HappyZerg, Bly) Team Poland (Nerchio, Mana, DieStar, Tarson, SliDeR, ParanOid) Team Canada (Huk, KiwiKaki, DDE, Slush, TT1, Drewbie) Team USA (Idra, Sheth, Vibe, QXC, Tyler, Gatored) Team France (Stephano, SarenS, Adelscott, Tod, Carn, Kenzy) Team China (Xigua, MacSeed, Infi, TooDming, Loner, F91) Team Korea (Nestea, MVP, MMA, MC, DRG, Leenock) Team Russia (Brat_OK, TitaN, HappyZerg, + 3 more ) Obviously this would be played out live (like the GSTL). If this would happend then it would be by far the sickest tournament in the very young Sc2 history! Why would that be the sickest tournament lol, objectively it'd just be a poor man's gstl. | ||
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bGr.MetHiX
Bulgaria511 Posts
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Xoronius
Germany6362 Posts
On December 29 2011 01:07 Malaz wrote: So lets do this with a point system. I know this doesn't make the whole thing any less subjective, but I'm bored right now I don't know the Chinese players well enough so I won't put them in the equation.A+: Top foreigner able to beat almost every top Korean in a Bo3 = 5 points A: Still one of the best foreigners, just a step away from A+ = 3 points B+: Player between A and B = 2,5 points B: Very strong player that can win online cups but no big lans = 2 points C+: Player between B and C = 1,5 points C: Players with great potential that haven't delivered results yet or players that used to be higher but are currently in a little slump = 1 point Sweden: Naniwa A+, SaSe A, ThorZain A, MorroW B+, SjoW B, Bischu B, hayprO B, Merz C+, Jinro C+, Seiplo C, Jimpo C, LaLush C, Naugrim C = 26,5 Canada: HuK A+, Kiwikaki B+, SLush B, TT1 C+, Drewbie C+, dde C, Ostojiy C = 14,5 USA: Idra A, Sheth B+, qxc C+, Gatored C+,Tyler C, Pokebunny C Machine C, iNcontroL C, KawaiiRice C, Painuser C = 14,5 Ukraine: White-Ra A, Dimaga A, Kas A, Strelok B+, Bly C+, HappyZerg C = 14 Germany HasuObs B+, Socke B+, GoOdy B+, TLO B, Darkforce C+, XlorD C+, Mondragon C = 13,5 France: Stephano A+, ToD B+, SarenS C+, Adelscott C+, MoMan C 11,5 Poland: Nerchio A, Mana A, Tarson B+, DieStar C, Paranoid C =10,5 Russia: BratOk B+, Happy B, Titan C, Pomi C, Abver C, LiveZerg C, HasHe C = 9,5 Netherlands: Ret A, Grubby B+, DaBoO C = 6,5 UK: DeMusliM A, BlinG C+, Pureball C = 5,5 Finland: Elfi B+, Welmu C+, Naama C+ ,Satiini C = 5,5 Australia: mOOnGlaDe B, Iaguz C+, tgun C = 4,5 Romania: Nightend B, Deathangel C+ = 3,5 Peru: Fenix B, CatZ C = 3 Serbia: Beastyqt B+ =2,5 Chile: KiLLeR B+ = 2,5 Italy: Cloud B = 2 Denmark: BabyKnight C, Ciara C = 2 Spain: Lucifron C+ = 1,5 Belarus: LoWeLy C+ = 1,5 Israel: Osho C+ =1,5 Norway: Snute = 1,5 Switzerland: biGs C = 1 Belgium: Orly C = 1 I'm sure I missed some players and keep in mind the ranking is very subjective . Also the ranking system itself doesn't necessarily provide the beste Sc2 nations besides Korea and China. Although I think it's quite safe to say it's Sweden no matter how you look at it HuK A+? He dropped out at the first round of one IEM, two Assemblys (lost both of his showmatches at the second), and did not reach ro8 in WCG or Dreamhack. People like Idra, Nerchio, MaNa, Kas, Thorzain seemed more dangerous lately and aren´t A+ and guys like Seiplo or titan, who where able to beat HuK are C? The C-rank seems a bit weird in general, Titan, Pomi or Happyzerg are much better than guys like Tyler, Mondragon, Icontrol, MoMan, Painuser. Also, if you add one of the last mentioned guys, you should add Underdark, BBQ/Ukrainestar, Delphi, rmdx, DBS, farmer, Honor, Tarra, Akkis as well. I think the idea of a ranking like this is good, but I would give away more points for the quality of players than for their quantity. I think I would rank the countries like this: Sweden Ukraine/China/Canada (assuming Huk is Canadian) Poland/USA (assuming SeleCT is korean, otherwise USA a bit ahead) Germany/France | ||
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BigLighthouse
United Kingdom424 Posts
On December 29 2011 02:45 discobaas wrote: Why would that be the sickest tournament lol, objectively it'd just be a poor man's gstl. It'd be awsome for the same reason the world cup is better than just watching the british premier league in football. People fucking love nation on nation action | ||
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mordk
Chile8385 Posts
On December 29 2011 02:40 Lewan72 wrote: I don't think tossing in random no-name pro-gamers should count. Remember its not all about quantity. Random no-name korean pro-gamers are a lot better than some of the players listed here. | ||
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Hardigan
Switzerland1297 Posts
On December 29 2011 02:42 GreEny K wrote: We would have to take ALL of the players that play SC2 in each country and then find the average skill level, and then do that for each country. Would be the only fair way. no, that's bs. What if country AAA has 200 more C-players then Country BBB? the average skill would be much lower for AAA, although they maybe have the better top 5 players | ||
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nath
United States1788 Posts
On December 29 2011 01:07 Malaz wrote: So lets do this with a point system. I know this doesn't make the whole thing any less subjective, but I'm bored right now I don't know the Chinese players well enough so I won't put them in the equation. A+: Top foreigner able to beat almost every top Korean in a Bo3 = 5 points A: Still one of the best foreigners, just a step away from A+ = 3 points B+: Player between A and B = 2,5 points B: Very strong player that can win online cups but no big lans = 2 points C+: Player between B and C = 1,5 points C: Players with great potential that haven't delivered results yet or players that used to be higher but are currently in a little slump = 1 point Sweden: Naniwa A+, SaSe A, ThorZain A, MorroW B+, SjoW B, Bischu B, hayprO B, Merz C+, Jinro C+, Seiplo C, Jimpo C, LaLush C, Naugrim C = 26,5 Canada: HuK A+, Kiwikaki B+, SLush B, TT1 C+, Drewbie C+, dde C, Ostojiy C = 14,5 USA: Idra A, Sheth B+, qxc C+, Gatored C+,Tyler C, Pokebunny C Machine C, iNcontroL C, KawaiiRice C, Painuser C = 14,5 Ukraine: White-Ra A, Dimaga A, Kas A, Strelok B+, Bly C+, HappyZerg C = 14 Germany HasuObs B+, Socke B+, GoOdy B+, TLO B, Darkforce C+, XlorD C+, Mondragon C = 13,5 France: Stephano A+, ToD B+, SarenS C+, Adelscott C+, MoMan C 11,5 Poland: Nerchio A, Mana A, Tarson B+, DieStar C, Paranoid C =10,5 Russia: BratOk B+, Happy B, Titan C, Pomi C, Abver C, LiveZerg C, HasHe C = 9,5 Netherlands: Ret A, Grubby B+, DaBoO C = 6,5 UK: DeMusliM A, BlinG C+, Pureball C = 5,5 Finland: Elfi B+, Welmu C+, Naama C+ ,Satiini C = 5,5 Australia: mOOnGlaDe B, Iaguz C+, tgun C = 4,5 Romania: Nightend B, Deathangel C+ = 3,5 Peru: Fenix B, CatZ C = 3 Serbia: Beastyqt B+ =2,5 Chile: KiLLeR B+ = 2,5 Italy: Cloud B = 2 Denmark: BabyKnight C, Ciara C = 2 Spain: Lucifron C+ = 1,5 Belarus: LoWeLy C+ = 1,5 Israel: Osho C+ =1,5 Norway: Snute = 1,5 Switzerland: biGs C = 1 Belgium: Orly C = 1 I'm sure I missed some players and keep in mind the ranking is very subjective . Also the ranking system itself doesn't necessarily provide the beste Sc2 nations besides Korea and China. Although I think it's quite safe to say it's Sweden no matter how you look at it your ranking system isn't too bad. i think one thing most would agree upon is that the C rank fucks shit up hardcore. A lot of the players you list at C i don't think should even be counted, or let alone equal to other C players (see NA's C's vs say, ukraine's C). i think ukraine should be above both usa and canada and a ranking system in which this doesn't happen, isn't accurate IMO. | ||
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stonetalon
Netherlands482 Posts
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Tidus Mino
United Kingdom1108 Posts
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CallousCarter
United Kingdom81 Posts
On December 29 2011 01:40 KinQuh wrote: Have they ever won anything? And no Select is not american. They don't have any big tournament wins. The point I was making is there's probably a lot of European players who aren't known as well because MLG gets the most attention out of the foreign tournaments and there's always top rated players going through the open bracket who they might snipe. On December 29 2011 01:40 GreEny K wrote: Why do people keep placing Pokebunny in the top of US... I seriously doubt he is. I would put State over him. Ye i put in State afterwards. | ||
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Veriol
Czech Republic502 Posts
Theres like no discussion srsly | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On December 29 2011 02:48 Hardigan wrote: no, that's bs. What if country AAA has 200 more C-players then Country BBB? the average skill would be much lower for AAA, although they maybe have the better top 5 players If you're looking for best overall skill, that is the only way to do it... You have to take everyone into account. If you want the best countries based on top 5, then it changes. But that's not what this thread is about. | ||
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
naniwa, idra, huk and stephano are best foreigners imo so their respective countries should be placed highly. Ukraine is quite ok but their top players are just not as good as some other countries. White-ra, kas and dimaga are ok but not top level, I wouldn't rank any of them in top 10 foreigners. | ||
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Malhorn
United States148 Posts
IdrA, Sheth, HuK, Stephano, DeMusliM, PuMa. ez | ||
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sakhi20
Denmark42 Posts
On May 09 2011 04:27 Bergys wrote: + Show Spoiler + On May 09 2011 04:18 Grezzz wrote: Probably the US, not because it has the best players, but because it has the largest population of the sc2 playing nations. You have to consider that IdrA can probably take out any non-US player, and there's plenty of other decent-ish US players to back him up. In terms of player-skill per population, it's definately Sweden and Ukraine. Germany has to be fairly close after. What does population have to do with anything? It's not like it's going to be the 200 best players in each country competing, you'd have to choose the 7 best or something. The US pretty much only has idra (not counting select), and I'd say Naniwa, Jinro, Thorzain are at the very least on the same level. I'd go with Ukraine if it was a smaller tournament, like 4 players from each nation and sweden if it was 7ish. I have to go with this, Sweden has a slightly better overall lineup, but ukraine has some ridiculosly strong aces. Also, whats up with no one mentioning Sase for Sweden, that guy is beast! EDIT: On December 29 2011 03:05 Malhorn wrote: USA is easily the best; IdrA, Sheth, HuK, Stephano, DeMusliM, PuMa. ez Huk is Canadian, Stephano is French, DeMusliM is English, and Puma is Korean. Just because they play for EG, they don't suddenly count as Americans. | ||
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StyLeD
United States2965 Posts
On December 29 2011 03:03 GreEny K wrote: If you're looking for best overall skill, that is the only way to do it... You have to take everyone into account. If you want the best countries based on top 5, then it changes. But that's not what this thread is about. Uh, that is what this thread is about. Read the title again. Pro lineup = the best from each country. Top 5, Top 10, that's what the OP wants. Not some stupid cumulative average that sounds retarded in theory and is just as retarded in practice. | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On December 29 2011 03:03 Markwerf wrote: sweden best by far, then canada/usa and then france/germany/ukraine i think. naniwa, idra, huk and stephano are best foreigners imo so their respective countries should be placed highly. Ukraine is quite ok but their top players are just not as good as some other countries. White-ra, kas and dimaga are ok but not top level, I wouldn't rank any of them in top 10 foreigners. Uhhh, I definitely would. White-ra plays with extremely solid mechanics and has impeccable micro and great strategies. Kas has won games that I thought were completely hopeless with some of the best macro I have seen, and his unit control and kiting are amazing. Dimaga is a beast all around, I would definitely put them into the top 10. | ||
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Xoronius
Germany6362 Posts
On December 29 2011 03:03 Markwerf wrote: sweden best by far, then canada/usa and then france/germany/ukraine i think. naniwa, idra, huk and stephano are best foreigners imo so their respective countries should be placed highly. Ukraine is quite ok but their top players are just not as good as some other countries. White-ra, kas and dimaga are ok but not top level, I wouldn't rank any of them in top 10 foreigners. Kas defeated HuK at WCG, Dimaga defeated HuK at Assembly, White-Ra won a Tournament with a 50000$ prize-pool, which neiter Huk nor Idra has ever accomplished. Not top level? Really? | ||
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Nurmis
Finland81 Posts
On December 29 2011 03:05 Malhorn wrote: USA is easily the best; IdrA, Sheth, HuK, Stephano, DeMusliM, PuMa. ez You forgot Select and Major. | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On December 29 2011 03:06 StyLeD wrote: Uh, that is what this thread is about. Read the title again. Pro lineup = the best from each country. Top 5, Top 10, that's what the OP wants. Not some stupid cumulative average that sounds retarded in theory and is just as retarded in practice. Easy killer, just because you don't understand that you need to take an average of something before you compare it to something without stipulations doesn't mean the theory is retarded... And guess what, if you wanna find the best countries, it would have to be by average, not by top 3...5 ...10 or whatever. | ||
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Hunterai
Thailand842 Posts
However, I'm really surprise to see China is not mentioned consistently as top 3 (and IMHO, a genuine contender for top spot) | ||
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Roynalf
Finland886 Posts
Major is from Mexico | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On December 29 2011 03:10 Hunterai wrote: Not surprise to see Sweden in most people view as first place. However, I'm really surprise to see China is not mentioned consistently as top 3 (and IMHO, a genuine contender for top spot) Yeah, most people don't include China in anything, it was the same in BW. They are their own little entity, and don't really play in a lot of tournaments outside of China. So you can't really include them because their sample size is too small, since nobody know how good they really are. | ||
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discobaas
225 Posts
LOL not sure if trollception or ? | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
Lol yes, that's the point. Huk is Canadian, Stephano is French, DeMuslim is British and PuMa is Korean. He wasn't being serious. | ||
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FunkyFly
Sweden82 Posts
This is so true. Thx Roynalf.... ^^ Wonder when China will be in top 3 outside Korea. | ||
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aderum
Sweden1459 Posts
haha either you are trolling or you completely missed the point. I cant really tell which on it is. | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On December 29 2011 03:14 FunkyFly wrote: This is so true. Thx Roynalf.... ^^ Wonder when China will be in top 3 outside Korea. When they make themselves known to the rest of the world. They stick to their own tournaments mainly, and nobody knows how good they really are. | ||
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Willba
United Kingdom209 Posts
The power of China... I would say Sweden/China/Ukraine as my top 3. | ||
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Grovbolle
Denmark3811 Posts
On December 29 2011 03:05 Malhorn wrote: USA is easily the best; IdrA, Sheth, HuK, Stephano, DeMusliM, PuMa. ez Not sure if being serious or just American :D Best troll post in a long while | ||
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Xoronius
Germany6362 Posts
On December 29 2011 03:16 Willba wrote: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/StarsWar_Killer_6 The power of China... I would say Sweden/China/Ukraine as my top 3. That was online. Offline they got demolished at IEM China, but made in into the final of WCG. Nobody really knows, how good they are. | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On December 29 2011 03:16 Willba wrote: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/StarsWar_Killer_6 The power of China... I would say Sweden/China/Ukraine as my top 3. China is strong, definitely, but I wouldn't look to that tournament for statistics. There were some upsets in that tournament. | ||
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Roynalf
Finland886 Posts
On December 29 2011 03:13 GreEny K wrote: Lol yes, that's the point. Huk is Canadian, Stephano is French, DeMuslim is British and PuMa is Korean. He wasn't being serious. I didnt read the orginal quote | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
ahhhaa, I thought you were trolling at first. | ||
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Jombozeus
China1014 Posts
There aren't many pro players in China, but the ones that are pro are definitely capable of making Code A. For reference, Destiny is 150th on Korean ladder, Naniwa maxed out at rank 6 and is now rank ~50 due to lag with his setup, Sen is ~40, Jinro is ~50, Stephano is ~20-30 when he plays. This is definitely not be-all end-all, as ladder really doesn't show who is going to win tournaments, but is without a doubt the best gauge of average skill and consistency that we have. Speaking of Sen, I don't understand why no one even considers Taiwan. Taiwan has a bustling scene with, Sen Hui Slam and a few others consistenly within top masters in Korea. Even luway, an amateur female gamer, placed in NA GM in season 3 with a ladder record of 70-10 or something like that. Taiwan has 5 teams in the pro circuit, with many members fully capable of surviving in Code A. | ||
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SolidMustard
France1515 Posts
Sweden seems kinda obvious as the best after Korea (Thorzain, Naniwa, Sase, Sjow, Jinro, Morrow... scary !), then I would say Germany, Ukraine, Canada and France | ||
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D4V3Z02
Germany693 Posts
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Ace.Xile
United States286 Posts
On December 29 2011 03:23 Jombozeus wrote: On the topic of China... There are at least 3 Chinese players in the top 200 of the korean ladder that I know of, and maybe a few that I don't under smurfs. Xigua is consistently top 30 GM in Korea. There aren't many pro players in China, but the ones that are pro are definitely capable of making Code A. For reference, Destiny is 150th on Korean ladder, Naniwa maxed out at rank 6 and is now rank ~50 due to lag with his setup, Sen is ~40, Jinro is ~50, Stephano is ~20-30 when he plays. This is definitely not be-all end-all, as ladder really doesn't show who is going to win tournaments, but is without a doubt the best gauge of average skill and consistency that we have. Speaking of Sen, I don't understand why no one even considers Taiwan. Taiwan has a bustling scene with, Sen Hui Slam and a few others consistenly within top masters in Korea. Even luway, an amateur female gamer, placed in NA GM in season 3 with a ladder record of 70-10 or something like that. Taiwan has 5 teams in the pro circuit, with many members fully capable of surviving in Code A. Because most of the people these people call for being amazing never put up results, period. Xigua and Sen are really the only people that have put up any form of real results, saying well omg i can tell they're good cause of they're stream and random tourneys that don't really matter (this is about non sen-xigua people) doesn't justify them being good on the proscene. that being said there are about 100 reasons why rank in gm shouldn't be used to say how awesome someone is, yes sometimes it can be indicative of skill, but not everyone tries 100% among other obvious issues. | ||
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TimeRunnerS
Denmark164 Posts
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holy_war
United States3590 Posts
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h41fgod
Sweden377 Posts
On December 29 2011 03:19 Xoronius wrote: That was online. Offline they got demolished at IEM China, but made in into the final of WCG. Nobody really knows, how good they are. Yeah, lets never mention WCG regarding skill again. It is still Sweden btw. | ||
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mcc
Czech Republic4646 Posts
Nerchio, Mana, Tarson + Slider, Paranoid and bunch of other quite good players. As for the general question (I am not counting China, too hard to judge) : 1.Sweden, Ukraine - with Sweden having slight edge probably 2. Germany, Poland, USA, Canada - hard to actually pick one better than the others 4. France, Finland + maybe Russia | ||
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EventHorizoN
Germany101 Posts
ThorZaIN Naniwa Sjow Morrow These guys speak for themsef! Nr. 2 Ukraine has some awesome players aswell! White Ra Strelok Dimaga Nr. 3 Germay (<3) Socke Hasuobs TLO (if he plays his best) Darkeforce Nr. 4 France! MoMan Stephano Adellscott Sarens. Nr. 5 Poland! Nercio Mana Tarson (even though he performs not as good as he did before. The US and Canada don't deserve a place on this list considering IdrA and HuK are basicly Korean players! :D Their other players can't be taken seriously. | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On December 29 2011 03:33 EventHorizoN wrote: Nr.1 Absolutley Sweden! ThorZaIN Naniwa Sjow Morrow These guys speak for themsef! Nr. 2 Ukraine has some awesome players aswell! White Ra Strelok Dimaga Nr. 3 Germay (<3) Socke Hasuobs TLO (if he plays his best) Darkeforce Nr. 4 France! MoMan Stephano Adellscott Sarens. Nr. 5 Poland! Nercio Mana Tarson (even though he performs not as good as he did before. The US and Canada don't deserve a place on this list considering IdrA and HuK are basicly Korean players! :D Their other players can't be taken seriously. Naniwa has been in Korea for a while, can't count him then. Stephano is getting there, so is Thorzain, and so is Morrow... | ||
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NapoleonBonaparte
France64 Posts
Stephano / ToD / Adelscott / SarenS / MoMaN | ||
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rareh
Portugal298 Posts
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TheNessman
United States4158 Posts
On December 29 2011 03:36 GreEny K wrote: Naniwa has been in Korea for a while, can't count him then. Stephano is getting there, so is Thorzain, and so is Morrow... Idra trained in korea from before 2008. Huk had 90% of the first part of his training take place in korea. Going to korea != training like a korean... Look at the Gom foreigner house lol | ||
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mcc
Czech Republic4646 Posts
On December 29 2011 03:33 EventHorizoN wrote: Nr.1 Absolutley Sweden! ThorZaIN Naniwa Sjow Morrow These guys speak for themsef! Nr. 2 Ukraine has some awesome players aswell! White Ra Strelok Dimaga Nr. 3 Germay (<3) Socke Hasuobs TLO (if he plays his best) Darkeforce Nr. 4 France! MoMan Stephano Adellscott Sarens. Nr. 5 Poland! Nercio Mana Tarson (even though he performs not as good as he did before. The US and Canada don't deserve a place on this list considering IdrA and HuK are basicly Korean players! :D Their other players can't be taken seriously. Ok, you forgot Kas for Ukarine, quite a big omission 4th and 5th place should be in opposite order. Nerchio, Mana and Tarson are matched only by Stephano and sometimes rarely by Adelscott. If you count Moman and Sarens then you would have to count Slider and probably some other Polish players as well. As for US : Idra,Sheth and some other players are still quite easily match for whichever country apart from Ukraine and Sweden. Canada also has Kiwikaki and few other players so they should easily fit. EDIT: forgot ToD, but even with that Poland still comes ahead. | ||
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TheNessman
United States4158 Posts
Well why don't we organize a nation war where we have the top 5 players from both teams play in a bo9 all kill style match? Then we would know who is better. I would be way down, and so would the players i assume, I'm sure they all have a lot of patriotism. | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On December 29 2011 03:42 TheNessman wrote: Idra trained in korea from before 2008. Huk had 90% of the first part of his training take place in korea. Going to korea != training like a korean... Look at the Gom foreigner house lol Then people can't count any Liquid player except Nony. The whole team was there and training with a Korean team. | ||
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secretary bird
447 Posts
If a soccer player from brazil goes to play in europe like they usually do, they dont become europeans, they are not considered a product of european soccer or anything like that. | ||
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ampson
United States2355 Posts
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Taekwon
United States8155 Posts
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Nancial
197 Posts
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Belki
Denmark9 Posts
Z : Stephano, Dimaga, Ret, Nerchio P : Naniwa, Mana, White-Ra,Sase T : Thorzain, Kas, Beastyqt | ||
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Pulimuli
Sweden2766 Posts
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alpinefpOPP
United States134 Posts
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svi
405 Posts
I'd say: 1. Sweden 2. Poland 3. Ukraine 4. France 5. Russia The US isn't in the top 5 imo. Idra and sheth are good, and you have some rising stars like gatored (who has beaten koreans lately), but their other players aren't very good. | ||
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[17]Purple
United Kingdom3489 Posts
On December 29 2011 04:02 Belki wrote: Europe : Z : Stephano, Dimaga, Ret, Nerchio P : Naniwa, Mana, White-Ra,Sase T : Thorzain, Kas, Beastyqt I don't think Europe is country though... | ||
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Troublesome
United Kingdom522 Posts
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mastergriggy
United States1312 Posts
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NipponBanzai
Canada518 Posts
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OKMarius
Norway469 Posts
I don't really see how anyone can pick Ukraine over Sweden, top 3 ukraine vs sweden is pretty equal, but Sweden's top 10 >>> Ukraine. | ||
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KinQuh
Finland810 Posts
On December 29 2011 04:06 svi wrote: it's crazy to see how overrated germany is. they have only 2 good players, socke and darkforce. russia has titan, brat_ok, and happy which imo is better than the german lineup. I'd say: 1. Sweden 2. Poland 3. Ukraine 4. France 5. Russia The US isn't in the top 5 imo. Idra and sheth are good, and you have some rising stars like gatored (who has beaten koreans lately), but their other players aren't very good. Are you seriously saying that HasuObs isnt good? | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On December 29 2011 04:06 svi wrote: it's crazy to see how overrated germany is. they have only 2 good players, socke and darkforce. russia has titan, brat_ok, and happy which imo is better than the german lineup. I'd say: 1. Sweden 2. Poland 3. Ukraine 4. France 5. Russia The US isn't in the top 5 imo. Idra and sheth are good, and you have some rising stars like gatored (who has beaten koreans lately), but their other players aren't very good. You forgot HasuObs. | ||
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Xoronius
Germany6362 Posts
On December 29 2011 04:06 svi wrote: it's crazy to see how overrated germany is. they have only 2 good players, socke and darkforce. russia has titan, brat_ok, and happy which imo is better than the german lineup. HasuObs? Top-4 @ IEM, TSL; reached NASL-Grandfinal twice, won TES, UGC, Northcon. Not a ThorZain, or a Stephano but definitly a favorite against most of Russia´s players. You already mentioned socke and darkforce, but Delphi, Xlord or Goody are not that bad either. Nobody said, that germany is on the same level as Ukraine or Sweden, but they are quite good as well. | ||
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hunts
United States2113 Posts
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SKYFISH_
Bulgaria990 Posts
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On December 29 2011 04:30 hunts wrote: This thread is funny, bunch of kids bashing on the US and claiming it "my opinion on player skill" pretty funny. The focus is on Sweden and Ukraine, when people mention US on top, that's when people start to "bash" the US. I wouldn't even call it bashing, since it's mostly true... | ||
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
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REDBLUEGREEN
Germany1904 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/nEXwN.png) This ofc isn't perfect either. MorroW quite clearly seems better than Bischu and Hasu than roof etc but I guess it is still better than just guessing Edit: Whoops dunno what happened to France they take last place anyway FRANCE Stephano ToD SarenS Adelscott AureS 2280 2184 2154 2113 2066 AVERAGE 2159 | ||
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lykkekage
Denmark107 Posts
But for a top 5 I would say 1. Sweden (So many good players, SaSe, NaNiwa, ThorZaIN, SjoW, Morrow. Plus a couple of decent players like LaLush, Jinro and Haypro) 2. Ukraine (Barely beats Poland with players like White-Ra, Kas, DIMAGA and Strelok) 3. Poland (Also a lot of good players like Nerchio, MaNa, Tarson and DieStar) 4. USA (Not many top tier players, only a few like IdrA and Sheth, but a lot of players with great potential like Tyler, Gatored, Minigun, Axslav and qxc) 5. Russia & Germany (Seems to be the only nations with a decent amount of top players other than the first 4 (maybe you can count Canada & France in) but they seem pretty even) | ||
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Flamingo777
United States1190 Posts
On December 29 2011 04:08 Troublesome wrote: Sweden > Ukraine > Canada > USA > Germany > China imo I was thinking the same thing. Sweden still seems to be in the top, and WhiteRa/Dimaga/Kas really represent Ukraine well. | ||
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lykkekage
Denmark107 Posts
On December 29 2011 04:37 REDBLUEGREEN wrote: TLPD ELO Data for 5 best players for a Bo5 This ofc isn't perfect either. MorroW quite clearly seems better than Bischu and Hasu than roof etc but I guess it is still better than just guessing Edit: Whoops dunno what happened to France they take last place anyway FRANCE Stephano ToD SarenS Adelscott AureS 2280 2184 2154 2113 2066 AVERAGE 2159 The fact that Deezer is top 5 for USA, says everything about TLPD | ||
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StarVe
Germany13591 Posts
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On December 29 2011 04:37 REDBLUEGREEN wrote: TLPD ELO Data for 5 best players for a Bo5 This ofc isn't perfect either. MorroW quite clearly seems better than Bischu and Hasu than roof etc but I guess it is still better than just guessing Edit: Whoops dunno what happened to France they take last place anyway FRANCE Stephano ToD SarenS Adelscott AureS 2280 2184 2154 2113 2066 AVERAGE 2159 Can't believe Deezer is up there lol. GOOOGOGOGOGO SUNGPA!!! <3<3<3 | ||
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iAmBiGbiRd
Australia1029 Posts
On December 29 2011 03:23 Jombozeus wrote: On the topic of China... There are at least 3 Chinese players in the top 200 of the korean ladder that I know of, and maybe a few that I don't under smurfs. Xigua is consistently top 30 GM in Korea. There aren't many pro players in China, but the ones that are pro are definitely capable of making Code A. For reference, Destiny is 150th on Korean ladder, Naniwa maxed out at rank 6 and is now rank ~50 due to lag with his setup, Sen is ~40, Jinro is ~50, Stephano is ~20-30 when he plays. This is definitely not be-all end-all, as ladder really doesn't show who is going to win tournaments, but is without a doubt the best gauge of average skill and consistency that we have. Speaking of Sen, I don't understand why no one even considers Taiwan. Taiwan has a bustling scene with, Sen Hui Slam and a few others consistenly within top masters in Korea. Even luway, an amateur female gamer, placed in NA GM in season 3 with a ladder record of 70-10 or something like that. Taiwan has 5 teams in the pro circuit, with many members fully capable of surviving in Code A. For reference mOOnGLaDe has been GM in korea every season but last one and just before WCG finals he was top 100 master with something like a +70% winrate, and there were many other foreigners in or around the top 100. iSInsur, xGKingIaguz, SEn, Major was aswell and many more | ||
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ThE)ShoWTimE
Italy213 Posts
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TumNarDok
Germany854 Posts
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JohnnyBanana
Canada493 Posts
On December 29 2011 04:37 Xeris wrote: Sweden, Ukraine ... 1st and 2nd, EASILY. Yep, this exactly. Doesn't even matter what the 3rd country is, as it's leagues below these 2. | ||
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iAmBiGbiRd
Australia1029 Posts
On December 29 2011 04:46 TumNarDok wrote: If the aussies had not all those lags with connecting to SEA, KR or NA servers, i would put them right up there along US/Canada/Russia, maybe better. I like you sir :D but seriously and despite by obviously slight bias Australia has some very good players that don't get spotlight (Apart from mOOnGLaDe, after his efforts at various IEM's and WCG people who continue to say he is 'Bad' or 'Not even close to top tier foreigner' are kidding themselves) Players like the xGKing boys Iaguz and Mafia, the arCMSi lads EdgE, Rossi and deth, TtPiG, GoSutgun, YoonYJ and a few others are all GM on NA + High Masters on Kor and are more than capable of holding there own against many players listed in this thread. Australia has such shithouse internet though that its hard for them to play in online events and the scene here isn't close to big enough (Yet) to have large scale LAN's very often so we get limited exposure Australia FIGHTING!!!!!! | ||
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Ammanas
Slovakia2166 Posts
On December 29 2011 03:23 Jombozeus wrote: On the topic of China... There are at least 3 Chinese players in the top 200 of the korean ladder that I know of, and maybe a few that I don't under smurfs. Xigua is consistently top 30 GM in Korea. There aren't many pro players in China, but the ones that are pro are definitely capable of making Code A. For reference, Destiny is 150th on Korean ladder, Naniwa maxed out at rank 6 and is now rank ~50 due to lag with his setup, Sen is ~40, Jinro is ~50, Stephano is ~20-30 when he plays. This is definitely not be-all end-all, as ladder really doesn't show who is going to win tournaments, but is without a doubt the best gauge of average skill and consistency that we have. Speaking of Sen, I don't understand why no one even considers Taiwan. Taiwan has a bustling scene with, Sen Hui Slam and a few others consistenly within top masters in Korea. Even luway, an amateur female gamer, placed in NA GM in season 3 with a ladder record of 70-10 or something like that. Taiwan has 5 teams in the pro circuit, with many members fully capable of surviving in Code A. Don't forget SaSe, who peaked at rank 6(or something like that, definitely in first 10) of korean GM last season I think... On topic: Sweden definitely first, then Ukraine. Then USA/China/Canada pretty similarly (like, all of them third). Then probably Germany/Poland/Russia... | ||
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Elem
Sweden4717 Posts
On December 29 2011 04:43 ThE)ShoWTimE wrote: u mod, bro?wait...Deezer?? | ||
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LimeNade
United States2125 Posts
On December 29 2011 04:37 REDBLUEGREEN wrote: TLPD ELO Data for 5 best players for a Bo5 This ofc isn't perfect either. MorroW quite clearly seems better than Bischu and Hasu than roof etc but I guess it is still better than just guessing Edit: Whoops dunno what happened to France they take last place anyway FRANCE Stephano ToD SarenS Adelscott AureS 2280 2184 2154 2113 2066 AVERAGE 2159 umm wtf pretty sure deezer is from canada we dont want him in the US | ||
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Awesomeness
Germany1361 Posts
On December 29 2011 04:42 lykkekage wrote: The fact that Deezer is top 5 for USA, says everything about TLPD It says a lot about US-players except for idra/sheth as well. | ||
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Namu
United States826 Posts
On December 29 2011 04:54 iAmBiGbiRd wrote: I like you sir :D but seriously and despite by obviously slight bias Australia has some very good players that don't get spotlight (Apart from mOOnGLaDe, after his efforts at various IEM's and WCG people who continue to say he is 'Bad' or 'Not even close to top tier foreigner' are kidding themselves) Players like the xGKing boys Iaguz and Mafia, the arCMSi lads EdgE, Rossi and deth, TtPiG, GoSutgun, YoonYJ and a few others are all GM on NA + High Masters on Kor and are more than capable of holding there own against many players listed in this thread. Australia has such shithouse internet though that its hard for them to play in online events and the scene here isn't close to big enough (Yet) to have large scale LAN's very often so we get limited exposure Australia FIGHTING!!!!!! No offense but all the players you listed are no where near top level.. by top I mean capable of getting into code A by qualifiers (I think moonglade probably can as long as he doesn't get a monster player in his group). GM on NA is pretty meaningless. | ||
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hunts
United States2113 Posts
On December 29 2011 05:05 Awesomeness wrote: It says a lot about US-players except for idra/sheth as well. mainly it shows how flawed of a tool the TLPD ELO is, and that he decided not to count huk or select as american even though they both are now, but its ok keep bashing america, after all this is one of the few threads where you can do it and not get moderated since you're "arguing which country has the best players" | ||
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kazie
258 Posts
On December 29 2011 02:34 GWBuffalo wrote: I think he was born and raised in Florida... then moved to Canada at about 15 or 16, iirc. so... he's canadian | ||
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Belki
Denmark9 Posts
On December 29 2011 05:18 hunts wrote: mainly it shows how flawed of a tool the TLPD ELO is, and that he decided not to count huk or select as american even though they both are now, but its ok keep bashing america, after all this is one of the few threads where you can do it and not get moderated since you're "arguing which country has the best players" Then Idra is Korean cuz he'll live in Korea for code S | ||
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Cosmos
Belgium1077 Posts
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On December 29 2011 05:18 hunts wrote: mainly it shows how flawed of a tool the TLPD ELO is, and that he decided not to count huk or select as american even though they both are now, but its ok keep bashing america, after all this is one of the few threads where you can do it and not get moderated since you're "arguing which country has the best players" Wow, stop arguing about where people are from... Select is in the US, he's been here for a few years(?), I still consider him Korean. SC Korean and your heritage are different. For SC purposes Select is from the US, as he lives and trains here. Huk himself said that he considers himself a CANADIAN so drop it. Idra is American no matter what... | ||
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diophan
United States1018 Posts
On December 29 2011 05:18 hunts wrote: mainly it shows how flawed of a tool the TLPD ELO is, and that he decided not to count huk or select as american even though they both are now, but its ok keep bashing america, after all this is one of the few threads where you can do it and not get moderated since you're "arguing which country has the best players" Well from my understanding huk considers himself Canadian and select considers himself Korean, so that's probably a good indicator of where to put them. Also if you're going to get angry about being speaking poorly of America's player quality you should maybe not look in the thread of each country's player quality | ||
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iAmBiGbiRd
Australia1029 Posts
On December 29 2011 05:11 Namu wrote: No offense but all the players you listed are no where near top level.. by top I mean capable of getting into code A by qualifiers (I think moonglade probably can as long as he doesn't get a monster player in his group). GM on NA is pretty meaningless. Did you actually read what i said....where anywhere did i say "Top level" apart from GLaDe?? I said they are pretty good and could hold there own against many players listed in this thread. I didn't say "They're top level because they are GM on NA and they could win vs other top level players" i said they are pretty good and they are only going to get better and that like the guy above me said i think for the amount of esports exposure/competitive scene Australia has had in the past we are decently represented in Sc2 and could rate with these other countries. Take out HuK from Canada for example (Which some people do, some don't) and who from there apart from KiWi could match or better mOOnGLaDe?? DDE, Slush, Drewbie, TT1, Attero i would all put behind mOOnGLaDe. | ||
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dCc
Canada86 Posts
USA, Sweden, Canada, Ukraine also have very strong teams. | ||
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REDBLUEGREEN
Germany1904 Posts
On December 29 2011 05:00 BloodThirsty wrote: umm wtf pretty sure deezer is from canada we dont want him in the US Hmm TLPD says he is from the US and Liquipedia from Canada. Someone certain where he is from? | ||
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phisku
Belgium864 Posts
On December 29 2011 10:11 REDBLUEGREEN wrote: Hmm TLPD says he is from the US and Liquipedia from Canada. Someone certain where he is from? he come from Québec :D | ||
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BEARDiaguz
Australia2362 Posts
Thorzain, Naniwa, SjoW, SaSe, Haypro, Jinro, Morrow, Merz and easily a few other big names that don't come to mind quickly. Gimme a break, I'm australian! | ||
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RPR_Tempest
Australia7798 Posts
On December 29 2011 05:11 Namu wrote: No offense but all the players you listed are no where near top level.. by top I mean capable of getting into code A by qualifiers (I think moonglade probably can as long as he doesn't get a monster player in his group). GM on NA is pretty meaningless. Making it to Code A has nothing to do with being top level. It still remains to be seen how easy Code A qualifiers are nowadays, but the old Code A qualifiers were fucking ridiculous, and no foreigner would have a chance getting through (players like Bomber, HerO and DongRaeGu didn't make it on their first try. BBoongBBoong, TheStC and others were stuck in the limbo that is Code B). tgun participated in two Code A qualifiers. In the first one he NARROWLY (because he overcommited to an attack) lost to SocceR, who ended up qualifying, and in the 2nd he took out RevivaL before getting cheesed out by Maru. Don't underestimate tgun, iaguz, JazBas and just Australians in general. We've got some damn good players. This whole conversation is irrelevant though, because Sweden is the best, followed by Ukraine. | ||
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SomeONEx
Sweden641 Posts
Sweden Ukraine Germany Canada | ||
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ChuCky.Ca
Canada2497 Posts
On December 29 2011 10:24 SomeONEx wrote: Biased swede saying: Sweden Ukraine Germany Canada meh even tho you are biased id say you hit it perfectly | ||
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Eee
Sweden2712 Posts
I also feel that USA is very overrated, right now the only good players I can think of are Idra and Sheth, the rest aren't even on the same level. Sweden and Ukraine are without doubt the strongest countries, and both of them have so much undiscovered talent. | ||
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Eppa!
Sweden4641 Posts
On December 29 2011 10:34 Eee wrote: I think Finland deserves to be among the the top 5 although they haven't showed to much results in 2011, I still think players like welmu and naama are very underestimated and very strong. I think in 2012 both Finland (welmu, naama, satini, elfi etc.) and Russia (happy, bratok, titan, livezerg etc) will show stronger results. I also feel that USA is very overrated, right now the only good players I can think of are Idra and Sheth, the rest aren't even on the same level. Sweden and Ukraine are without doubt the strongest countries, and both of them have so much undiscovered talent. Gatored has killer PvT. | ||
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borny
China481 Posts
I also think it should be mentioned how incredible it is what a ESPORT nation Ukraine has emerged to be. I mean, dota2, CS1.6, and now SC2. Amazing. And always they tend to go head-to-head with Sweden, I love it. OT> 1. Sweden 2. Ukraine ------------- tier2: Germany/france/finland ------------- tier3: China/canada/russia/us/holland?/australia? | ||
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unnar
Iceland211 Posts
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ratzp0li
United States340 Posts
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vx70GTOJudgexv
United States3161 Posts
On December 29 2011 10:44 unnar wrote: Everbody seems to say germany but do they have any players who are good tbh? A few. Namely the notables are TLO, Socke, Goody and Hasu. Darkforce makes some appearances here and there. They also have some others who are prone to cause an upset now and then. And Mondragon. | ||
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Goldmattress
Iceland23 Posts
On December 29 2011 10:44 unnar wrote: Everbody seems to say germany but do they have any players who are good tbh? Hasuobs/TLO/Socke/DarKFoRcE/Mondragon/Delphi/GoOdy Not always top top tier players but the sheer number of good players means Germany probably beats the US, I'm not suer though. I personally think Germany and the US are pretty even, the US is better if anything. *edit* less than 1 min before, really? | ||
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Kaozpanna
Sweden47 Posts
On December 29 2011 10:44 unnar wrote: Everbody seems to say germany but do they have any players who are good tbh? Hasuobs, socke, darkforce? | ||
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Choboo
Sweden2088 Posts
On December 29 2011 10:34 Eee wrote: I think Finland deserves to be among the the top 5 although they haven't showed to much results in 2011, I still think players like welmu and naama are very underestimated and very strong. I think in 2012 both Finland (welmu, naama, satini, elfi etc.) and Russia (happy, bratok, titan, livezerg etc) will show stronger results. I also feel that USA is very overrated, right now the only good players I can think of are Idra and Sheth, the rest aren't even on the same level. Sweden and Ukraine are without doubt the strongest countries, and both of them have so much undiscovered talent. Gatored is pretty fucking sick bro | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
Germany Ukraine Canada France/USA (tie) | ||
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LegendaryZ
United States1583 Posts
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Choboo
Sweden2088 Posts
1. France - I don't think any foreigner can take that kid (Stephano) down. ToD is also getting really fucking good 2. Poland - Mana, Tarson, Nerchio pretty sick lineup 3. Sweden - Maybe I'm biased but SaSe, Naniwa, Thorzain and Morrow should do pretty well objectively speaking 4. USA or Ukraine - Depends on how much Tyler has been practicing Also a big surprise would probably be UK, I could definitely see Demuslim and Bling own shit up. | ||
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PsychoPriest
Poland16 Posts
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SonOfMKP
United States30 Posts
On December 29 2011 11:13 PsychoPriest wrote: lol im surprised that so many ppl didnt say POLAND in their rankings. wtf guys? mana, nerchio, tarson, diestar, tefel, slider, forte, paranoid, zazu?? Not to put anyone down, but have those guys won anything outside of small local tournaments? Mana and Nerchio have done pretty well in foreign tournaments but the rest of them I really haven't heard of doing well anywhere. | ||
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vx70GTOJudgexv
United States3161 Posts
On December 29 2011 11:03 Choboo wrote: I think in an all-kill league format: 1. France - I don't think any foreigner can take that kid (Stephano) down. ToD is also getting really fucking good 2. Poland - Mana, Tarson, Nerchio pretty sick lineup 3. Sweden - Maybe I'm biased but SaSe, Naniwa, Thorzain and Morrow should do pretty well objectively speaking 4. USA or Ukraine - Depends on how much Tyler has been practicing Also a big surprise would probably be UK, I could definitely see Demuslim and Bling own shit up. Honestly, this type of thing wouldn't be an "all-kill" type deal. Sweden Ukraine Poland/Germany Beyond that, really no one nation stands out. US has a lot of overrated players. Many many. | ||
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SonOfMKP
United States30 Posts
On December 29 2011 11:19 vx70GTOJudgexv wrote: Honestly, this type of thing wouldn't be an "all-kill" type deal. Sweden Ukraine Poland/Germany Beyond that, really no one nation stands out. US has a lot of overrated players. Many many. USA doesn't have any overrated players at all, we just don't have top tier players. IdrA and Sheth are the only 2 players here that have done anything at all. Now if you count all of NA as one, then maybe we have a few overrated players but still we really don't have that many top tier players. Anyways, my #1 team would be Sweden. The Mouz Swedes have always consistently placed well wherever they play. Naniwa is honestly one of the best micro-styled protoss players in the world, and even though SaSe doesn't have great results he's still an amazing force to be reckoned with. I also think that people are putting the Chinese on a level they're not very deserving of. They've had 1 player actually make a name for himself in one tournament, and all of a sudden the entire country is good at this game. | ||
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anycolourfloyd
Australia524 Posts
Poland is also pretty good.. | ||
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9859 Posts
Actually I'll just list each team and make up my mind. Sweden - Thorzain, Naniwa, Sase, Morrow, Sjow, Haypro (Dayym!) + Lalush, Seiplo etc Ukraine - Kas, White-ra, Dimaga, Strelok (Solid line-up) France - Stephano, ToD, Adelscott (Not that bad tbh) Poland - Mana, Tarson, Diestar, Nerchio (Overrated imo) Germany - Darkforce, Goody, Socke, Hasuobs, TLO (Decent) US - IdrA, QXC, Select, Sheth, Gatored, Illusion Canada - Huk, Kiwikaki, Attero, Fayth, Ostojiy, TT1 China - Xigua, F91, Xiaot, Macsed, Toodming The few I left out was Britain, they have Demuslim and a few less popular guys that I didn't think are worth to be on the list. Russia I left out because beisdes Happy and BratOK who are very good players, nobody else is really sticks out for me. Finland has some nice players, but I didn't think they deserved to be there because their players don't have major accomplishments besides Naama winning Dreamhack. Netherlands only really had Ret and Grubby, so I left them out as well. And who suggested Canada? Like lol, I'm Canadian, but come on, you have HuK, and I'm a Kiwikaki fan (look at my ID), but please, the guy focuses more on poker than starcraft and is not very good. And the other ones on the list are there because nobody else could fill those spots, and none of them have any good accomplishments. My list is as follows: 1. Korea obv 2. Sweden 3. China 4. US 5. Ukraine 6. Poland | ||
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SonOfMKP
United States30 Posts
On December 29 2011 11:26 FiWiFaKi wrote: Sweden has to be number one like a few said. Thorzain, Naniwa, Sase, and Morrow will break you. Actually I'll just list each team and make up my mind. Sweden - Thorzain, Naniwa, Sase, Morrow, Sjow, Haypro (Dayym!) + Lalush, Seiplo etc Ukraine - Kas, White-ra, Dimaga, Strelok (Solid line-up) France - Stephano, ToD, Adelscott (Not that bad tbh) Poland - Mana, Tarson, Diestar, Nerchio (Overrated imo) Germany - Darkforce, Goody, Socke, Hasuobs, TLO (Decent) US - IdrA, QXC, Select, Sheth, Gatored, Illusion Canada - Huk, Kiwikaki, Attero, Fayth, Ostojiy, TT1 China - Xigua, F91, Xiaot, Macsed, Toodming The few I left out was Britain, they have Demuslim and a few less popular guys that I didn't think are worth to be on the list. Russia I left out because beisdes Happy and BratOK who are very good players, nobody else is really sticks out for me. Finland has some nice players, but I didn't think they deserved to be there because their players don't have major accomplishments besides Naama winning Dreamhack. Netherlands only really had Ret and Grubby, so I left them out as well. And who suggested Canada? Like lol, I'm Canadian, but come on, you have HuK, and I'm a Kiwikaki fan (look at my ID), but please, the guy focuses more on poker than starcraft and is not very good. And the other ones on the list are there because nobody else could fill those spots, and none of them have any good accomplishments. My list is as follows: 1. Korea obv 2. Sweden 3. China 4. US 5. Ukraine 6. Poland I agree with everything you said except I would include Mexico with US and add MajOr instead of either Gatored or Illusion. Actually I think our scene is small enough to just combine US, Canada, and all of South America. HuK, IdrA, Select, Sheth, Major would be a pretty solid lineup. | ||
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tecthe4th
Canada16 Posts
Given that the tournament itself went... 1- MVP 2- China 3 - Ukraine I'd say that we might be on to something.... (Also, Canada went a collective 66% [12-6], just sayin...) | ||
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Eufouria
United Kingdom4425 Posts
On December 29 2011 11:34 tecthe4th wrote: Didn't we just have a tournament where each country was allowed to send three representatives, and then they all competed against each other? Couldn't we just add up each country's respective W/L ratio at the World Cyber Games, including initial group stages, and then determine which country deserves silver? Given that the tournament itself went... 1- MVP 2- China 3 - Ukraine I'd say that we might be on to something.... (Also, Canada went a collective 66% [12-6], just sayin...) Most people would say a lineup is bigger than the best 3 players, but if thats the case WCG would be the perfect measure, its still pretty useful though. I would rank it 1/2. Sweden & China. I suspect China is above Sweden but that's just speculation based on the few players we've seen. Sweden is pretty self explanatory though, their super lineup is even more impressive if we looked on a per capita basis. 3. Germany 4. Canada. 5. USA. But only on sheer force of numbers, the 'average' pro player in the US is worse than 5th. 6. Ukraine. Strong lineup, but its quite small. 7. Russia 8. France. Similar to US but in a smaller scale. 9. Poland 10. Finland | ||
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KnowMe
Germany228 Posts
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Krejven
Sweden105 Posts
On December 29 2011 11:33 SonOfMKP wrote: I agree with everything you said except I would include Mexico with US and add MajOr instead of either Gatored or Illusion. Actually I think our scene is small enough to just combine US, Canada, and all of South America. HuK, IdrA, Select, Sheth, Major would be a pretty solid lineup. I guess we should add entire Scandinavia to Sweden then since our scene is so small? Hell since you put 900 million (the population of the entire american continent) vs the 9 million of sweden we could just as well make it America vs Europe and you would still be ahead by 200 million. | ||
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RoboBob
United States798 Posts
2. Ukraine: Its weird but they do have a high concentration of talent. Whitera, Kas, Dimaga, Strelok 3. China: Just from watching WCG and the Star Wars tournament, I'm definitely impressed. I think a lot of people are going to be surprised when they start showing up to GSL and MLG. The next 3 picks are debatable, because they din't have much high-quality talent, but they do have a ton of low-mid level pros which other nations do not. Stephano is a one-hit-wonder for France, as is Sen for Taiwan and Ret for Netherlands. 4. Canada 5. Germany 6. United States | ||
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Durp
Canada3117 Posts
All the rest are inconsequential, though I'd have to give the nod to Sweden. edit; five (?) players have participated in GSL Code-A, Jinro has advanced further than any foreigner in Code-S, and Naniwa is near the top for foreigner prize winnings. If we're going to talk about potential, this list will never evolve beyond "I Like X, he's awesome!" Results say Sweden, ez | ||
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Sinedd
Poland7052 Posts
1.China 2.Sweden 3.Poland/Ukraine 4.Germany 5.United States 6.Canada 7.Russia 8.France imo | ||
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SnetteL
Belgium473 Posts
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Durp
Canada3117 Posts
It was so fun watching those games, and at this point I'd say we're far enough along in the game to get a true Korean top 8. (anypro, san, nada, and july are not in the top 8 of best Koreans atm, and I didn't really feel they all belonged last time either) Conversely, now that Code-A/S is easier to get into for foreigners, it's more likely that the better foreign talent would go to participate. | ||
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canSore
132 Posts
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CruiseR
Poland4014 Posts
1. Sweden 2. Ukraine 3. Poland 4-7. USA Germany France Russia | ||
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Sanchonator
Australia490 Posts
On December 30 2011 01:49 canSore wrote: USA has RatzDeezer, so USA hes canadian ? | ||
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utrabo
Brazil17 Posts
1. South Korea 2. Sweden 3. Canada 4. USA 5. France The information is on the "Other Stats" tab on the bottom of the page on the country rank. | ||
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Thylacine
Sweden882 Posts
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
1/2 Sweden/Ukraine Sweden and Ukraine would probably end up around 50/50 if they played 100 times bo7 any format 3 China china has a ton of talent 4/5 Germany/France Germany is better than france imo but stephano could carry them in a winners league 5/6 USA/Canada USA is a little deeper with QXC/Select/Sheth being better than Kiwi and crew but Huk vs Idra probably goes to Huk so it depends on what format is played. 7 Poland Just not enough depth and no major star to carry them as ace against others | ||
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Luepert
United States1933 Posts
Swedes are winning stuff right and left, Jinro won a MLG, got round of 4 in gsl twice, further than any other foreigner. The furthest a Chinese has made it in gsl is Loner to the round of 16 once. Naniwa won an MLG, won the global invitational, got second at providence second on eu bnet invite and second at TSL TO ANOTHER SWEDE! Thorzain won TSL, second at dreamhack invitational, all killed team IM, and got 4th at NASL. Haypro beat fucking Nestea for crying out loud! Morrow won IEM and got second at assembly. SaSe got 2nd at a frickin Chinese tournament, higher than the highest chinese person by 2 places, and hes owning face in another Chinese tournament. Sweden collectively has puled in over 200k of prizemoney, China is at no more than 70k. How in the world do any results show china is better than Seeden!!!??!!?!? | ||
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MyFirstProbe
Netherlands294 Posts
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QNdie
Poland210 Posts
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totally_spy
France104 Posts
Code S 01. Korea - for obvious reasons, + Flash, Jaedong and Bisu may switch to SC2 on day. Scary! ----------------- Code A 02. Sweden (NaNiwa, SaSe, ThorZaIN, SjoW, MorroW) 03. Ukraine (White-Ra, Kas, Strelok, Dimaga, Bly) 04. China (LoveCD, MacSed, Loner, XiGua, F91) ----------------- Code B 05. Poland (MaNa, SLiDeR, Tarson, DieStar, Nerchio) 05. Canada (HuK, TT1, KiWiKaKi, Drewbie, SLush) 05. Russia (TitaN, Pomi, Brat_OK, Happy, LiveZerg) 08. USA (Gatored, qxc, TriMaster, IdrA, Sheth) 08. France (ToD, Adelscott, SarenS, Stephano, MoMaN) 08. Germany (HasuObs, Socke, GoOdy, TLO, DarKFoRcE) 11. Finland (elfi, Welmu, Naama, Satiini,??????) Taiwan, Australia, Netherlands somewhere in code B too. ----------------- The way I see this list is that countries in a Tier can compete against a country within their Tier. China may be way higher in the list, not sure at all of their ranking. My 2 cents on the topic | ||
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utrabo
Brazil17 Posts
On December 30 2011 02:40 QNdie wrote: I think Sweden wins hands down. I also disagree that Germany is up there. I mean, they are good and all, but have no real star lineup; no one who actually wins a lot of huge shit. I'm extremely biased but I still think that Poland is quite good at SC2! You are right QNdie, statistically Poland is ahead of Germany. Poland is at 7th while Germany is at 10th. Take a look at the ranking I posted above. | ||
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iRon aka bananajuice
Germany124 Posts
poland has also very good players | ||
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Slaytilost
Netherlands968 Posts
On December 30 2011 03:03 totally_spy wrote: If I consider the caliber of the top5 players by country and speculate on how well they would do in CodeS/CodeA/CodeB I get this tier list : Code S 01. Korea - for obvious reasons, + Flash, Jaedong and Bisu may switch to SC2 on day. Scary! ----------------- Code A 02. Sweden (NaNiwa, SaSe, ThorZaIN, SjoW, MorroW) 03. Ukraine (White-Ra, Kas, Strelok, Dimaga, Bly) 04. China (LoveCD, MacSed, Loner, XiGua, F91) ----------------- Code B 05. Poland (MaNa, SLiDeR, Tarson, DieStar, Nerchio) 05. Canada (HuK, TT1, KiWiKaKi, Drewbie, SLush) 05. Russia (TitaN, Pomi, Brat_OK, Happy, LiveZerg) 08. USA (Gatored, qxc, TriMaster, IdrA, Sheth) 08. France (ToD, Adelscott, SarenS, Stephano, MoMaN) 08. Germany (HasuObs, Socke, GoOdy, TLO, DarKFoRcE) 11. Finland (elfi, Welmu, Naama, Satiini,??????) Taiwan, Australia, Netherlands somewhere in code B too. ----------------- The way I see this list is that countries in a Tier can compete against a country within their Tier. China may be way higher in the list, not sure at all of their ranking. My 2 cents on the topic Netherlands does have Ret and Grubby, who are a force to be recogned with. Too bad they are alone | ||
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kinglemon
Germany199 Posts
On May 09 2011 04:14 act.hero wrote: I also consider SeleCT American, because he lives here, and is the only Korean in the world that can speak fluent english. fluent is something else in my book | ||
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MarcoBrei
Brazil66 Posts
On December 30 2011 01:57 utrabo wrote: The five first (source: www.sc2proranks.com ) 1. South Korea 2. Sweden 3. Canada 4. USA 5. France The information is on the "Other Stats" tab on the bottom of the page on the country rank. I wish some day a Brazilian player appears among the top players. I mean, in any list of top players, top 100, top 1000... For now we are pretty much out of the map. : P | ||
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Yamulo
United States2096 Posts
On May 09 2011 04:02 mr_tolkien wrote: Nobody thinks France is quite up there ? Adelscott, Stephano, Moman, Song, Sarens would make quite an ace team... EDIT : I think Sweden is first, but that France is underrated. We could add Carn, Soju, and Aures. I agree, I am kind of surprised a few people said US before France. Maybe some people actually believe the joke that stephano is from the US =) | ||
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Willzzz
United Kingdom774 Posts
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Sleight
2471 Posts
On December 30 2011 03:47 Willzzz wrote: Sweden is so clearly the best 'foreigner' country. Preach. I don't think it is close actually. A gap to Ukraine and then a big one to the rest. That is assuming Strelok has been stepping up lately. | ||
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HaXXspetten
Sweden15718 Posts
On December 30 2011 04:00 Sleight wrote: Preach. I don't think it is close actually. A gap to Ukraine and then a big one to the rest. That is assuming Strelok has been stepping up lately. Agreed, although it's hard to say just exactly how good China is, given how little the outside world seemingly knows about their top players, so they might have a place among the top countries as well. | ||
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B.I.G.
3251 Posts
+ with that logic huk would be considered a korean | ||
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Motoorhead
Poland67 Posts
I dont know why ppl consider pol so low. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
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DexLy
Sweden34 Posts
On December 30 2011 04:18 Motoorhead wrote: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/807/gmpol.png/ I dont know why ppl consider pol so low. It's 'determined' around how good the actual players are and the tournament results, including a few other things. Looking at a newly opened GM is not the way to do it, especially when all the top players arn't on the same server. | ||
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Bratalix
Sweden34 Posts
On December 30 2011 04:21 FabledIntegral wrote: Haypro is Swedish? :o Yes, Haypro is Swedish | ||
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
.On December 30 2011 04:21 FabledIntegral wrote: Haypro is Swedish? :o Yeah. Something I've noticed is some people on TL like putting their nationality as somewhere they don't actually live for their own reasons lol, typically where they were born or something similar. | ||
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Rexking
United States45 Posts
Sweden and Canada. I think you guys are getting out of topic. *Non-Korean Nation. | ||
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Ventor
United States336 Posts
On December 30 2011 03:03 totally_spy wrote: If I consider the caliber of the top5 players by country and speculate on how well they would do in CodeS/CodeA/CodeB I get this tier list : Code S 01. Korea - for obvious reasons, + Flash, Jaedong and Bisu may switch to SC2 on day. Scary! ----------------- Code A 02. Sweden (NaNiwa, SaSe, ThorZaIN, SjoW, MorroW) 03. Ukraine (White-Ra, Kas, Strelok, Dimaga, Bly)http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft2 04. China (LoveCD, MacSed, Loner, XiGua, F91) ----------------- Code B 05. Poland (MaNa, SLiDeR, Tarson, DieStar, Nerchio) 05. Canada (HuK, TT1, KiWiKaKi, Drewbie, SLush) 05. Russia (TitaN, Pomi, Brat_OK, Happy, LiveZerg) 08. USA (Gatored, qxc, TriMaster, IdrA, Sheth) 08. France (ToD, Adelscott, SarenS, Stephano, MoMaN) 08. Germany (HasuObs, Socke, GoOdy, TLO, DarKFoRcE) 11. Finland (elfi, Welmu, Naama, Satiini,??????) Taiwan, Australia, Netherlands somewhere in code B too. ----------------- The way I see this list is that countries in a Tier can compete against a country within their Tier. China may be way higher in the list, not sure at all of their ranking. My 2 cents on the topic I'm sorry, but you can't group players like that and say they have similar skill. I hate seeing talk about this topic among the community, everyone is so damn bias toward their own continent. Idra, Huk, Thorzain and Naniwa are our top tier foreigners which have put up results. Everyone else is just spectulation; unless they win something, stop talking about "how damn good they are". | ||
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Kaitokid
Germany1327 Posts
On December 30 2011 03:03 totally_spy wrote: If I consider the caliber of the top5 players by country and speculate on how well they would do in CodeS/CodeA/CodeB I get this tier list : Code S 01. Korea - for obvious reasons, + Flash, Jaedong and Bisu may switch to SC2 on day. Scary! ----------------- Code A 02. Sweden (NaNiwa, SaSe, ThorZaIN, SjoW, MorroW) 03. Ukraine (White-Ra, Kas, Strelok, Dimaga, Bly) 04. China (LoveCD, MacSed, Loner, XiGua, F91) ----------------- Code B 05. Poland (MaNa, SLiDeR, Tarson, DieStar, Nerchio) 05. Canada (HuK, TT1, KiWiKaKi, Drewbie, SLush) 05. Russia (TitaN, Pomi, Brat_OK, Happy, LiveZerg) 08. USA (Gatored, qxc, TriMaster, IdrA, Sheth) 08. France (ToD, Adelscott, SarenS, Stephano, MoMaN) 08. Germany (HasuObs, Socke, GoOdy, TLO, DarKFoRcE) 11. Finland (elfi, Welmu, Naama, Satiini,??????) Bly Code A level and MaNa, Nerchio HuK Taiwan, Australia, Netherlands somewhere in code B too. ----------------- The way I see this list is that countries in a Tier can compete against a country within their Tier. China may be way higher in the list, not sure at all of their ranking. My 2 cents on the topic Bly Code A level? I'd say more than half the players you listed on Code B level are better than him^^ Bly is good obviously, but still come on.. | ||
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hyuu
163 Posts
![[image loading]](https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/302035_283615351677269_200113990027406_768474_1433654866_n.jpg) | ||
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PeggyHill
1494 Posts
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Shinkaii
22 Posts
1 - Sweden 2 - Ukraine 3 - Poland 4 - Canada / China 5 - France / Germany / Russia | ||
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MarcoBrei
Brazil66 Posts
http://www.targetmap.com/viewer.aspx?reportId=12608 | ||
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Fanek
Poland344 Posts
http://imageshack.us/f/4/ladderfw.jpg/ 1.Mana 2.Nerchio 3.Tarson 4.Diestar | ||
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darthfoley
United States8004 Posts
On December 30 2011 07:45 Fanek wrote: Poland own European GM ladder http://imageshack.us/f/4/ladderfw.jpg/ 1.Mana 2.Nerchio 3.Tarson 4.Diestar Yea, they own ladder. ladder. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/240/e/b/laughing_meme_guy_by_vixenwolfie-d485kw0.png) | ||
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cameler
Canada99 Posts
I say, Sweden, Ukraine, Germany, USA | ||
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aiuradun
Denmark115 Posts
On December 30 2011 02:04 Mattchew wrote: Assuming its a bo7 format (winners or matchup) and each country can compete with only 4 players 1/2 Sweden/Ukraine Sweden and Ukraine would probably end up around 50/50 if they played 100 times bo7 any format 3 China china has a ton of talent 4/5 Germany/France Germany is better than france imo but stephano could carry them in a winners league 5/6 USA/Canada USA is a little deeper with QXC/Select/Sheth being better than Kiwi and crew but Huk vs Idra probably goes to Huk so it depends on what format is played. 7 Poland Just not enough depth and no major star to carry them as ace against others I Would tend to agree with this list :-), although i am still really unsure about the level of China just haven't seen enogh of their players and their games :-) | ||
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Shebuha
Canada1335 Posts
Edit: I posted before i was done typing | ||
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00Visor
4337 Posts
2. Ukraine 3. Germany/USA/Canada | ||
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blae000
Norway1640 Posts
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RoboBob
United States798 Posts
On December 30 2011 02:19 Luepert wrote: How the Hell are people rating China over Sweden? No Chinese player has achieved a tournament win! Xiagua made it to WCG finals by beating Titan, F91, and snute. How is that in any way impressive? Blizzcon 2010 was the only spot where a Chinese person beat a somewhat good person, Loner beat sen, other than that he only beat huk (back when he was also losing to Artosis) and redarchon (who?). Swedes are winning stuff right and left, Jinro won a MLG, got round of 4 in gsl twice, further than any other foreigner. The furthest a Chinese has made it in gsl is Loner to the round of 16 once. Naniwa won an MLG, won the global invitational, got second at providence second on eu bnet invite and second at TSL TO ANOTHER SWEDE! Thorzain won TSL, second at dreamhack invitational, all killed team IM, and got 4th at NASL. Haypro beat fucking Nestea for crying out loud! Morrow won IEM and got second at assembly. SaSe got 2nd at a frickin Chinese tournament, higher than the highest chinese person by 2 places, and hes owning face in another Chinese tournament. Sweden collectively has puled in over 200k of prizemoney, China is at no more than 70k. How in the world do any results show china is better than Seeden!!!??!!?!? The thing is its tough to compare China vs Korea because they've only competed in 2 international tournaments. Star Wars and WCG. Blizzcon doesn't count because China didn't send their best due to visa problems. Plus, China doesn't use the tournament maps that Korea+West uses either, so its not exactly a equal playing field. This thread is about which nation is the *best*, not which nation has the most results. PS: Goody, Dimaga, Hotmail, and Ddoro have all also defeated Nestea in BO3s. Not to downplay Haypro's win, but you don't make a career off a single BO3. This isn't BW, even top players like Nestea can lose series due to luck/BO losses. | ||
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Catatonic
United States699 Posts
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10366 Posts
I think china could be #1. If not, then Sweden or USA or Canada. But we don't know (at least I don't) much about China since they seem to have a big enough scene they don't have to travel too much around. | ||
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courtpanda
866 Posts
sweden on top by a huge margin IMO. i'd love to see how an all swedish team would do in GSTL. Naniwa, Sase, Morrow, Thorzain, Jinro anyone? | ||
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m1rk3
Canada412 Posts
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Heweree
United Kingdom497 Posts
Sweden: Naniwa (10) Thorzain (9.5) Morrow (9) Sase (9) Sjow (8) = 45.5 Lots of other good players tho Ukraine:White-Ra (9) Kas (9.5) Strelok (8.5) Dimaga (9.5) Bly (7.5) = 44 After top 5 the amount of good players decreases rapidly Poland: MaNa(9.5) SLiDeR(7) Tarson(8) DieStar(8) Nerchio(9.5)=42 Canada: HuK (10) TT1(7.5) KiWiKaKi(8.5) DDE(7.5) SLush(8)= 41.5 Russia: TitaN(8.5) Pomi(7.5) Brat_OK(9) Happy(8.5, sort of disapeared) LiveZerg (7.5)=41 USA: Gatored(8.5) qxc(8 allkilled IM but 8 xD) TriMaster(7) IdrA(9.5) Sheth(9.5)=42.5 Huge scene behind of 7ish... France: ToD(9) Adelscott(8.5) SarenS(8) Stephano(10) MoMaN(7.5)=42 Huge scene of top master/GM Germany: HasuObs(9) Socke(8.5) GoOdy(8) TLO(7.5) DarKFoRcE(8.5)=41.5 Even bigger scene of top master/GM than France So following this: 1.Sweden 2.Ukraine 3.USA (ty Idra and Sheth^^) 4.Poland and France 5.Canada and Germany 6. Russia Really close tho. And keep in mind it's my point of view, you may not agree but then discuss it nicely | ||
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harman
35 Posts
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Fanek
Poland344 Posts
5 polish players in TOP6 1.MaNa, Nerchio, Diestar, Tarson, Romson ![[image loading]](http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/233/top6t.jpg/) Another ones into GM: Tefel, SodoN, Breathe, Dejmien, Matiz, Slider, KarLosH | ||
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vx70GTOJudgexv
United States3161 Posts
On December 29 2011 11:22 SonOfMKP wrote: USA doesn't have any overrated players at all, we just don't have top tier players. IdrA and Sheth are the only 2 players here that have done anything at all. Now if you count all of NA as one, then maybe we have a few overrated players but still we really don't have that many top tier players. Sheth is overrated in my blunt opinion, as is qxc. We have IdrA, who everyone realizes is great when he's at his best, and can be downright awful when he's at his worst. Gatored had a nice little stint at IEM NY, but other than that has gone largely unproductive in the results department, and I doubt he'll do much more. Beyond that? No one is really notable but someone somewhere will try and squeeze a name or two in there as someone who shows depth. They don't. | ||
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Eeevil
Netherlands359 Posts
A Davis Cup for SC2, That would be so awesome. And yeah, Poland is not getting enough press here. | ||
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ShatterZer0
United States1843 Posts
On December 30 2011 10:47 TanTzoR wrote: I'll base the ranks on the top 3 foreign players: Huk, Naniwa, Stephano. They will get 10 then it will decreases. Ill keep only the top 5 players. I won't rate China because too hard, but they are definetly out there. Sweden: Naniwa (10) Thorzain (9.5) Morrow (9) Sase (9) Sjow (8) = 45.5 Lots of other good players tho Ukraine:White-Ra (9) Kas (9.5) Strelok (8.5) Dimaga (9.5) Bly (7.5) = 44 After top 5 the amount of good players decreases rapidly Poland: MaNa(9.5) SLiDeR(7) Tarson(8) DieStar(8) Nerchio(9.5)=42 Canada: HuK (10) TT1(7.5) KiWiKaKi(8.5) DDE(7.5) SLush(8)= 41.5 Russia: TitaN(8.5) Pomi(7.5) Brat_OK(9) Happy(8.5, sort of disapeared) LiveZerg (7.5)=41 USA: Gatored(8.5) qxc(8 allkilled IM but 8 xD) TriMaster(7) IdrA(9.5) Sheth(9.5)=42.5 Huge scene behind of 7ish... France: ToD(9) Adelscott(8.5) SarenS(8) Stephano(10) MoMaN(7.5)=42 Huge scene of top master/GM Germany: HasuObs(9) Socke(8.5) GoOdy(8) TLO(7.5) DarKFoRcE(8.5)=41.5 Even bigger scene of top master/GM than France So following this: 1.Sweden 2.Ukraine 3.USA (ty Idra and Sheth^^) 4.Poland and France 5.Canada and Germany 6. Russia Really close tho. And keep in mind it's my point of view, you may not agree but then discuss it nicely Are you SERIOUSLY putting Millenium's ToD on the same level as Whitera, SaSe, and HasuObs? Whaaa? The most exciting thing ToD's ever done is beat Alicia twice in prepatch PvP -.- All he has is his stellar PvP... all of his other match ups are subpar... even his crazy 3:2 win against Nerchio was a pretty bad series... I know you said discuss nicely... but... Oh, and putting Stephano as a (10) on your list is just begging for a shitstorm... Adelscott has no major tournament wins versus any equal or greater caliber player in 2011 in my opinion... maybe a PvP or two, but nothing else. Please, if you don't want a crazy argument over this player is better than that player, base your point system on something, rather than leaving it ambiguous... for all we know you could be basing their scores on their looks! Also... what criterion do you use for "Top 3 Foreign players"? HuK is almost a given seeing as he's been in recent GSL for a while now and has consistently great tournament results, but Naniwa and Stephano are pretty debatable... | ||
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Choboo
Sweden2088 Posts
On December 30 2011 23:05 ShatterZer0 wrote: Are you SERIOUSLY putting Millenium's ToD on the same level as Whitera, SaSe, and HasuObs? Whaaa? The most exciting thing ToD's ever done is beat Alicia twice in prepatch PvP -.- All he has is his stellar PvP... all of his other match ups are subpar... even his crazy 3:2 win against Nerchio was a pretty bad series... That win vs Alicia was 4 months ago, since then he's been practicing in Korea and is playing really well. All his match-ups are really solid and I don't know what you're basing his current PvP level by at all. And btw, whether Huk is top 3 foreigner is way more debatable then Stephano. Kid is a genius and everyone knows it. Huk's 5 latest tournaments: WCG - wins his group but goes out in the ro16 to Kas. NASL - loses first round (ro16) to Hasuobs Dreamhack - goes through group stages but loses first round (ro16) to Seiplo MLG - wins one series vs. Hero but because of his seeding finishes 5th after losing to naniwa and Leenock ASUS ROG - loses first round (ro8) to Elfi | ||
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Hardigan
Switzerland1297 Posts
On December 30 2011 23:12 Choboo wrote: That win vs Alicia was 4 months ago, since then he's been practicing in Korea and is playing really well. All his match-ups are really solid and I don't know what you're basing his current PvP level by at all. And btw, whether Huk is top 3 foreigner is way more debatable then Stephano. Kid is a genius and everyone knows it. Huk's 5 latest tournaments: WCG - wins his group but goes out in the ro16 to Kas. NASL - loses first round (ro16) to Hasuobs Dreamhack - goes through group stages but loses first round (ro16) to Seiplo MLG - wins one series vs. Hero but because of his seeding finishes 5th after losing to naniwa and Leenock ASUS ROG - loses first round (ro8) to Elfi 2011 is the year of the huk. He won dreamhack, HSC3, a super stacked MLG. In nearly all the rest of the MLG exept 2 this year, Huk was the best foreigner. He was Code S for a very long time and for a while considered as the best protoss. | ||
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~Maverick~
United States234 Posts
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Choboo
Sweden2088 Posts
On December 30 2011 23:41 ~Maverick~ wrote: Poland could be so much better if it only had depth. Mana and Nerchio are 2 of the best foreigners out of any country, but unfortunately after those two the rest of the Polish players are far behind. I'd really love to see two or three more players from poland at the very highest level of play. Stop underestimating Tarson wtf | ||
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Lorch
Germany3686 Posts
On December 30 2011 23:12 Choboo wrote: That win vs Alicia was 4 months ago, since then he's been practicing in Korea and is playing really well. All his match-ups are really solid and I don't know what you're basing his current PvP level by at all. And btw, whether Huk is top 3 foreigner is way more debatable then Stephano. Kid is a genius and everyone knows it. Huk's 5 latest tournaments: WCG - wins his group but goes out in the ro16 to Kas. NASL - loses first round (ro16) to Hasuobs Dreamhack - goes through group stages but loses first round (ro16) to Seiplo MLG - wins one series vs. Hero but because of his seeding finishes 5th after losing to naniwa and Leenock ASUS ROG - loses first round (ro8) to Elfi Most consistent foreign code s player, only non korean to win an mlg with koreans attending, won Dreamhack and HSC with koreans attending in a time where every tournament with koreans in it went to koreans. If anyone can be called the best foreigner of 2011 it is obviously huk. OT: Sweden by far. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9407 Posts
On December 30 2011 23:05 ShatterZer0 wrote: Are you SERIOUSLY putting Millenium's ToD on the same level as Whitera, SaSe, and HasuObs? Whaaa? The most exciting thing ToD's ever done is beat Alicia twice in prepatch PvP -.- All he has is his stellar PvP... all of his other match ups are subpar... even his crazy 3:2 win against Nerchio was a pretty bad series... I know you said discuss nicely... but... Oh, and putting Stephano as a (10) on your list is just begging for a shitstorm... Adelscott has no major tournament wins versus any equal or greater caliber player in 2011 in my opinion... maybe a PvP or two, but nothing else. Please, if you don't want a crazy argument over this player is better than that player, base your point system on something, rather than leaving it ambiguous... for all we know you could be basing their scores on their looks! Also... what criterion do you use for "Top 3 Foreign players"? HuK is almost a given seeing as he's been in recent GSL for a while now and has consistently great tournament results, but Naniwa and Stephano are pretty debatable... The guy apparently thinks qxc, goody and sjow are better than jinro. Pretty funny. Jinro is like a 9. Dimaga also is closer to 8.5 than 9.5. Sheth 9.5 wtf? Wtf thats the worst so far. | ||
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Tikan
France42 Posts
Are you SERIOUSLY putting Millenium's ToD on the same level as Whitera, SaSe, and HasuObs? Whaaa? And whats wrong? ToD is in a really good shape right now, he have been training for quite some times in korea and can compete with high caliber players. And Stephano top3 is a no-brainer. Well I might seem biaised cause I'm french and stuff but those 2 points I'm rly confident about. Moman/adelscott are overrated in this list altough, they're good but dont stand in a top foreigners list. | ||
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Jakkerr
Netherlands2549 Posts
On December 31 2011 01:35 Hider wrote: The guy apparently thinks qxc, goody and sjow are better than jinro. Pretty funny. Jinro is like a 9. Dimaga also is closer to 8.5 than 9.5. Sheth 9.5 wtf? Wtf thats the worst so far. Jinro is a great guy but he has been losing to randoms for the past 6-7 months. You can't put him on a 9 :p | ||
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Eppa!
Sweden4641 Posts
On December 31 2011 01:48 Jakkerr wrote: Jinro is a great guy but he has been losing to randoms for the past 6-7 months. You can't put him on a 9 :p Jinro has been playing poorly at lans for a long time. He get cold hands or something. I think MKP said Jinro was best foreigner in practice. On December 31 2011 01:44 Tikan wrote: And whats wrong? ToD is in a really good shape right now, he have been training for quite some times in korea and can compete with high caliber players. And Stephano top3 is a no-brainer. Well I might seem biaised cause I'm french and stuff but those 2 points I'm rly confident about. Moman/adelscott are overrated in this list altough, they're good but dont stand in a top foreigners list. Sase has better PvT and PvP than Tod but Sase has had big problems PvZ where as Tod is solid PvZ. Whitera gets really sporadic results and Hasu is the same way. | ||
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o)_Saurus
Germany260 Posts
Sweden: Naniwa (10) Thorzain (9.5) Morrow (8.5 instead of 9) Sase (9) Sjow (8) = 45 Lots of other good players tho therefore +0.5 -> 45.5 (stays the same) Ukraine:White-Ra (9) Kas (9.5) Strelok (8.5) Dimaga (9 instead of 9.5 because of really bad ZvP) Bly (7 instead of 7.5 because he show nothing yet) = 43 Poland: MaNa(9.5) SLiDeR(6 because imho he is the weakest player here (no 7)) Tarson(8) DieStar(7.5 for me, don't know why you rate him for 8) Nerchio(9.5)=40.5 Canada: HuK (10) TT1(7.5) KiWiKaKi(8.5) DDE(7 instead of 7.5 did not show that match tbh) SLush(8)= 41 Russia: TitaN(8.5) Pomi(7.5) Brat_OK(9) Happy(8.5, sort of disapeared) LiveZerg (7.5)=41 USA: Gatored(8 instead of 8.5 he's a little one-hit-wonder to me) qxc(8) TriMaster(7) IdrA(9.5) Sheth(9.5? lol -> 8.5)=41 Huge scene behind of 7ish... +0.5 -> 41.5 France: ToD(9) Adelscott(8 instead of 8.5) SarenS(8) Stephano(10) MoMaN(7.5)=41.5 Huge scene of top master/GM (you really think so? ok... +0.5) -> 42 Germany: HasuObs(9) Socke(9 instead of 8.5 because he is definitly on same lvl as white-Ra, Hasu etc..) GoOdy(8) Delphi instead of TLO(7.5) DarKFoRcE(8.5)=42 Even bigger scene of top master/GM than France (+0.5) -> 42.5 So following this: 1.Sweden 2.Ukraine 3.Germany 4.France 5.USA 6.Canada Russia 7.Poland Seems more appropriate to me.. | ||
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jax1492
United States1632 Posts
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hZi
5 Posts
2. Ukraine 3. Poland/France (a nation war between those two would be so tight, Adel and SarenS are a bit underrated) 4. Germany 5. Canada 6. China 7. Russia 8. USA yup yup | ||
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Sphaero
Germany1697 Posts
Sweden, without a doubt. They have so many Top to High Level foreigners, it isn´t even funny. They could probably build two teams, which would give any other nations serious trouble. The only nation, that could challenge them in the near future would be China, which I find very hard to judge atm. They did really well at WCG, but disappointed at IEM China. I believe that the popularity of WC3 will play a important role in the future. If the big guns from there would switch over, China would probably sky rock in skill. But right now I can´t rate them properly. So what comes after Sweden? Many people say Ukraine, which has four of the best Euros (White-Ra, Strelok, Dimaga and Kas), but IMO both Germany and Poland absolute Top Players (Hasu, Socke, DF, Goody / Mana, Nerchio, Tarson, Diestar) can match them. Clanwars between them would probably come down to Matchups, daily form and a little bit of luck. Not to mention that all three countries have a large amount of good GM´s, who come after their Top players. The next tier consists of three countries, which are in a similar situation right now: USA, Canada and France. All three have one Superstar (Idra, Huk and Stephano) and one strong second player (Sheth, Kiwikaki and Tod), but after them is a pretty large gap to the next players. Don´t get me wrong, players like Qxc, Gatored, Drewbie, Dde, Adelscott and Sarens are good, really good even, but I don´t think, that they are on the level of the 3rd and 4th strongest players of Ukraine, Poland or Germany. So in short its: 1. Sweden 2. Ukraine/Poland/Germany 3. France/USA/Canada | ||
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scarper65
1560 Posts
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NuKedUFirst
Canada3139 Posts
1.Sweden 2.Ukraine 3.Germany or USA/Canada.. Europe seems like a power house right now.. NA servers are lacking .. On December 31 2011 06:03 scarper65 wrote: China. We rarely see their players, but from what I have seen they have all been very good. Sen is also Chinese as well, as he is from Taiwan But hes from Taiwan.. Taiwanese ? I don't call myself German from Canada.. I call myself Canadian lol.. | ||
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scarper65
1560 Posts
On December 31 2011 06:06 NuKedUFirst wrote: Idk about top 5 but I would say: 1.Sweden 2.Ukraine 3.Germany or USA/Canada.. Europe seems like a power house right now.. NA servers are lacking .. But hes from Taiwan.. Taiwanese ? I don't call myself German from Canada.. I call myself Canadian lol.. Taiwan is part of China though. It isn't its own country | ||
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`MemoRY
United States80 Posts
On December 31 2011 06:11 scarper65 wrote: Taiwan is part of China though. It isn't its own country No one considers Sen a Chinese player though... | ||
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EdouarKiLL
Russian Federation112 Posts
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castled
United States322 Posts
On December 31 2011 06:11 scarper65 wrote: Taiwan is part of China though. It isn't its own country The only nation that thinks Taiwan is part of mainland China is China. Technically, Taiwan thinks THEY own all of China. They're different countries. | ||
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brrrtmn
Russian Federation154 Posts
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eScaper-tsunami
Canada313 Posts
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DrN0
United Kingdom184 Posts
Seriously not one of you mentioned the UK we have Demuslim and BlinG and ummmm that Pureball guy he plays as well someone said he knows ALL of his race's hot keys but i cant confirm this so don't rely on what i am saying. So yeah beware....... Rule Britannia and all that. | ||
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Kaitokid
Germany1327 Posts
On December 30 2011 23:05 ShatterZer0 wrote: Are you SERIOUSLY putting Millenium's ToD on the same level as Whitera, SaSe, and HasuObs? Whaaa? The most exciting thing ToD's ever done is beat Alicia twice in prepatch PvP -.- All he has is his stellar PvP... all of his other match ups are subpar... even his crazy 3:2 win against Nerchio was a pretty bad series... I know you said discuss nicely... but... Oh, and putting Stephano as a (10) on your list is just begging for a shitstorm... Adelscott has no major tournament wins versus any equal or greater caliber player in 2011 in my opinion... maybe a PvP or two, but nothing else. Please, if you don't want a crazy argument over this player is better than that player, base your point system on something, rather than leaving it ambiguous... for all we know you could be basing their scores on their looks! Also... what criterion do you use for "Top 3 Foreign players"? HuK is almost a given seeing as he's been in recent GSL for a while now and has consistently great tournament results, but Naniwa and Stephano are pretty debatable... ToD is in Fnatic, not Millenium.... And yes ToD is probably a little worse than SaSe but I'm pretty sure hes at least as good as WhiteRa and HasuObs. Also when talking about top foreigner HuK etc. you have to consider that players like HuK literally attend every foreign event because of their team. I'm sure if other great players had the chance to go to many events they would have similiar results. Also theres a huge difference between performance at events and performance in practice, some players are beasts on ladder and when they practice but just can't perform very well in tournaments for various reasons, but this will change over time. | ||
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WaSa
Sweden749 Posts
Sweden is the undisputed king of non-korean Starcraft. Ukraine, Poland, Canada honorable mentions etc etc | ||
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Supert0fu
United States499 Posts
Plus players like spanishiwa and destiny, who revolutionize the game. | ||
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Rewera
Poland354 Posts
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Sphaero
Germany1697 Posts
On December 31 2011 07:23 Supert0fu wrote: Can you really say USA behind France??? Idea, sheth, qxc, gatored vs Stephanie and them a. Bunch of people I never heard of... Plus players like spanishiwa and destiny, who revolutionize the game. You never heard of ToD, the best foreign WC3 player of all time after Grubby? OK... | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15725 Posts
On December 31 2011 07:23 Supert0fu wrote: Can you really say USA behind France??? Idea, sheth, qxc, gatored vs Stephanie and them a. Bunch of people I never heard of... Plus players like spanishiwa and destiny, who revolutionize the game. lol, was this typed on a phone with auto correct? Idea and Stephanie xD | ||
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Oreo7
United States1647 Posts
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SniXSniPe
United States1938 Posts
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pewpew444
United States121 Posts
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Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
I'll give it to Sweden myself. | ||
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Oreo7
United States1647 Posts
QXC Tyler Gatored Kawiirice Axslav All of team Vile, It's Gosu, most of EG etc etc. I don't think any other country has a roster quite as deep as ours. So we'd lose Winners League to Canada, Sweden or France, but we'd beat France in proleague bo5, beat Canada bo7 and beat Sweden bo11 or so. Anyway, it's really hard to measure. | ||
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Tsubbi
Germany7996 Posts
On December 31 2011 08:12 Oreo7 wrote: I think what USA has going for it is tons of random B-rank pros. As in S-rank is HuK, Naniwa, Idra, Stephano etc, A-Rank is like Sheth, Demuslim, etc. I mean we have: QXC Tyler Gatored Kawiirice Axslav All of team Vile, It's Gosu, most of EG etc etc. I don't think any other country has a roster quite as deep as ours. So we'd lose Winners League to Canada, Sweden or France, but we'd beat France in proleague bo5, beat Canada bo7 and beat Sweden bo11 or so. Anyway, it's really hard to measure. plz tell me you're trolling | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15725 Posts
On December 31 2011 08:12 Oreo7 wrote: I think what USA has going for it is tons of random B-rank pros. As in S-rank is HuK, Naniwa, Idra, Stephano etc, A-Rank is like Sheth, Demuslim, etc. I mean we have: QXC Tyler Gatored Kawiirice Axslav All of team Vile, It's Gosu, most of EG etc etc. I don't think any other country has a roster quite as deep as ours. So we'd lose Winners League to Canada, Sweden or France, but we'd beat France in proleague bo5, beat Canada bo7 and beat Sweden bo11 or so. Anyway, it's really hard to measure. I think the most proper way to assess country dominance would be "If all countries got to send a 5 man team to the GTSL, which team would win?", since GTSL and IPL team arena are both 5 man, right? So we should be thinking of this in terms of who has the 5 best players. In such a case, I think Sweden wins. naniwa, Thorzain, Sase, Morrow, Jinro I feel like there is another Swedish heavy hitter I am missing, but I do think that Sweden has the strongest 5 man team. Ukraine and Germany are of course also really strong countries, but they don't have as strong of a 5 man team. | ||
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Hydra3
United States32 Posts
At the end of the day not many of our pros actually harvest any results. | ||
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hZi
5 Posts
On December 31 2011 07:23 Supert0fu wrote: Can you really say USA behind France??? Idea, sheth, qxc, gatored vs Stephanie and them a. Bunch of people I never heard of... Plus players like spanishiwa and destiny, who revolutionize the game. Well, destiny and spanishiwa wouldn't stand a chance agaisnt players such as Adel, who beat IMMvp or SarenS who beat Sen in one of the most macro and multitask oriented bo3 ive seen and also faced IdrA in the finals of one the first IEM. I mean, their creativity is very entertaining but in the end their level isn't just high enough. No need to mention Stephano, whos just the best foreign zerg imo. So yeah, even though Idra, sheth, qxc are top foreign players I don't think they that the overall level reaches the french top 5. And yes my opinion is biased cause im french :} | ||
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ClysmiC
United States2192 Posts
US is decent, but it can't match up to Sweden. | ||
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Vapaach
Finland994 Posts
2. Ukraine (WhiteRa, Dimaga, Kas, Strelok) 3. USA (Idra, Sheth etc.) That is how it goes, I think. | ||
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Aunvilgod
2653 Posts
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llKenZyll
United States853 Posts
On December 31 2011 08:36 Aunvilgod wrote: Sweden and Canada. No way, has to be Sweden, USA and then canada. | ||
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Ventor
United States336 Posts
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chenchen
United States1136 Posts
On December 31 2011 08:26 hZi wrote: Well, destiny and spanishiwa wouldn't stand a chance agaisnt players such as Adel, who beat IMMvp or SarenS who beat Sen in one of the most macro and multitask oriented bo3 ive seen and also faced IdrA in the finals of one the first IEM. I mean, their creativity is very entertaining but in the end their level isn't just high enough. No need to mention Stephano, whos just the best foreign zerg imo. So yeah, even though Idra, sheth, qxc are top foreign players I don't think they that the overall level reaches the french top 5. And yes my opinion is biased cause im french :} You're really citing Adelscott vs IMMvp as a piece of evidence? Those games, like most of TSL3, were played with horrendous lag. Don't you remember the Genius lagfields? Or Mvp, arguably the best Korean terran, losing a reaper to a probe surround? Or him missing entire cycles when hes kiting his bio army? If Adelscott played Mvp right now, he wouldn't win a single game out of ten. | ||
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pewpew444
United States121 Posts
On December 31 2011 08:37 Ventor wrote: USA has only 3-4 top players. IdrA, HuK (Also Canadian), Sheth and Gatored ( I think if this guy was picked up by a big team, he would shine; I love you gatored). Sweden also has a very strong lineup with Nani, Sase, Thorzain and Morrow. What about the guy who all killed IM? | ||
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Krallman
Sweden713 Posts
On December 31 2011 08:37 Lebzetu wrote: No way, has to be Sweden, USA and then canada. Ukraine and Germany before USA tbh | ||
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Belki
Denmark9 Posts
For me : -Sweden(Naniwa, Thorzain , Morrow, Sase, Bischu) -Ukraine ( Kas,DIMAGA, White-Ra, Strelok, Bly) -Poland ( Nerchio, Mana,Tarson, Diestar, Tefel or Paranoid) -France(Stephano, ToD, SarenS, Adelscott, Kenzy) -Germany(Socke, Goody, Hasuobs, Darkforce,Xlord) -US(Idra,Sheth, qxc, Gatored and a last one) | ||
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CptCutter
United Kingdom370 Posts
demuslim > all | ||
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Shortynut
Australia78 Posts
On December 31 2011 07:06 eScaper-tsunami wrote: The gap between Korea and the rest of the world is too big to give a fair assessment. We've seen so many foreigners go to Korea only to have a short lived career. Even the international TLPD is littered with code S and code A players and the foreigners that manged to squeeze into top 40 only have raised ELO because they were beating other foreigners and the occasional Korean but haven't won anything in a while. Korea's >decade of professional BW competition is probably the biggest factor. Barely any foreigners could afford to even get to Korea before the exchange program. Looking at how insanely huge the foreign community has grown since the release of Starcraft 2 I'd say It's only a matter of time before we see a non-K GSL champion, the 2012 prophecy comes to mind :D On December 31 2011 08:51 Belki wrote: USA so overhyped! For me : -Sweden(Naniwa, Thorzain , Morrow, Sase, Bischu) -Ukraine ( Kas,DIMAGA, White-Ra, Strelok, Bly) -Poland ( Nerchio, Mana,Tarson, Diestar, Tefel or Paranoid) -France(Stephano, ToD, SarenS, Adelscott, Kenzy) -Germany(Socke, Goody, Hasuobs, Darkforce,Xlord) -US(Idra,Sheth, qxc, Gatored and a last one) add Huk to the USA | ||
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Belki
Denmark9 Posts
On December 31 2011 08:56 Shortynut wrote: Korea's >decade of professional BW competition is probably the biggest factor. Barely any foreigners could afford to even get to Korea before the exchange program. Looking at how insanely huge the foreign community has grown since the release of Starcraft 2 I'd say It's only a matter of time before we see a non-K GSL champion, the 2012 prophecy comes to mind :D add Huk to the USA I don't know what is so hard to understand. Huk claims that he is canadian first even if he is American too so we can't count him in the US team. You know, Zidane is also algerian, but he was competing for France and Algerians didn't say that he could play for their team. | ||
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Oreo7
United States1647 Posts
On December 31 2011 08:17 Mohdoo wrote: I think the most proper way to assess country dominance would be "If all countries got to send a 5 man team to the GTSL, which team would win?", since GTSL and IPL team arena are both 5 man, right? So we should be thinking of this in terms of who has the 5 best players. In such a case, I think Sweden wins. naniwa, Thorzain, Sase, Morrow, Jinro I feel like there is another Swedish heavy hitter I am missing, but I do think that Sweden has the strongest 5 man team. Ukraine and Germany are of course also really strong countries, but they don't have as strong of a 5 man team. GSTL is winners league, so the teams with the best aces would win - the bo's I was referring to were proleague style. | ||
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akalarry
United States1978 Posts
On December 31 2011 09:14 Belki wrote: I don't know what is so hard to understand. Huk claims that he is canadian first even if he is American too so we can't count him in the US team. You know, Zidane is also algerian, but he was competing for France and Algerians didn't say that he could play for their team. i'm surprised he considers himself canadian. if i was born and raised in USA and then moved to france when i was 16 (22 now), i would definitely call myself an american. | ||
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PandaMonk
United States300 Posts
IdrA, Sheth, Select, Rain, Incontrol, Tyler, Gatored, qxc, and Destiny. But for the best, probably sweden OVERALL. | ||
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LlamaNamedOsama
United States1900 Posts
On December 31 2011 09:14 Belki wrote: I don't know what is so hard to understand. Huk claims that he is canadian first even if he is American too so we can't count him in the US team. You know, Zidane is also algerian, but he was competing for France and Algerians didn't say that he could play for their team. Where did Huk say he was Canadian first? AFAIK everytime he's asked he considers himself half and half. | ||
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MrSexington
United States1768 Posts
On December 31 2011 15:03 LlamaNamedOsama wrote: Where did Huk say he was Canadian first? AFAIK everytime he's asked he considers himself half and half. No where. There is just a lot of US hate from many TL members and you just have to roll with it. | ||
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br0t0ss
Australia92 Posts
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KimJongChill
United States6429 Posts
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dUTtrOACh
Canada2339 Posts
EDIT: Xi Gua | ||
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Resonance
Canada113 Posts
2)USA: IdrA(pronounced ih-dra, kinda like idiot), Sheth 3) Canada: HuK, combatex, HairZerg(firezerg) something high)France: definitely not. You have stephano kbye | ||
EnderSword
Canada669 Posts
Sweden has a strongest Top 5 in total... So I think comes down to what the match was. Pokemon style, I'd take Canada. If it was set matchups, Sweden. | ||
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Vildhjarta
Sweden126 Posts
On December 31 2011 08:56 CptCutter wrote: what happened to the UK? demuslim > all right so there's demuslim and then there's... | ||
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namste
Finland2292 Posts
On December 31 2011 16:58 Vildhjarta wrote: right so there's demuslim and then there's... Right and when you look at what Demuslim has done then there's....OH wait he hasn't done anything significant in starcraft. | ||
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jonathan1
United States395 Posts
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Mise
Finland580 Posts
And if the Chinese really take a liking in SC2 they could get as big or bigger than Korea. | ||
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nastyyy
United States262 Posts
Anyways, my vote would be Sweden. | ||
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Goibon
New Zealand8185 Posts
I'd love nothing more than to see a TEAM SWEDEN in the GSTL at some point. | ||
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giorgio
Poland32 Posts
On December 31 2011 16:43 Resonance wrote: 1)Sweden for sure: Thorzain, nani and jinro. No Sase morrow and the others aren't that great. 2)USA: IdrA(pronounced ih-dra, kinda like idiot), Sheth 3) Canada: HuK, combatex, HairZerg(firezerg) something high)France: definitely not. You have stephano kbye C'mon. Idra is TOP player ? He's kinda good, but not a very high level. USA so hype From Europe it's Sweden. Can't say who on 2nd place, bcuz have many strong national teams. | ||
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NIIINO
Slovakia1320 Posts
But I think that Sweden got the best non-korean players + there are so many of them, not just in SC2. then I think its Germany - Ukraine - USA - Poland maybe | ||
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DeadCell
Canada256 Posts
Team Sweden would be really hard to deal with if it came to a nationality team tournament lol. Canada, without me being too biased because I love this country; Has good players but most notably HuK, KiWiKaKi , Drewbie, and Stalife. HuK being our all-star most improved player by far would be our ace. But Honestly you can't count out any foreign players in that sense because you never know what could happen. The qxc all-kill against IM really shocked the hell out of me; you never know what to expect. I'm just happy to see a foreign player beat a high level Korean pro because it shows we have potential. | ||
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jcc
United States472 Posts
People actually making strong impacts at most tournaments are people from 1) Korea (obviously) 2) Sweden / USA / Ukraine 3) China / Germany / Poland 4) Canada / France I sort of group Huk into USA, but IdrA, sheth, rain, Huk, and qxc have all had pretty good tournament presence / rankings, and i would say on par numbers with sweden as of now. | ||
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labbe
Sweden1456 Posts
In that order. | ||
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labbe
Sweden1456 Posts
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labbe
Sweden1456 Posts
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Caryc
Germany330 Posts
i think germany could need some results! (besides goody winning every cup that ever has been played) i believe! | ||
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tehneXus
Australia38 Posts
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box-killa
Australia13 Posts
You've got idra from the US Huk from canada stephano from france whiteRA and Kas from ukraine they are the best foreigners to be honest. sweden has a lot of good pros but no "super pros" if you know what I mean. I'd have to say the best is ukraine because it has the best protoss and terran in europe. It makes me think that sc2 is going to end up like sc1 in korea. We've already got way more korean uber pros, hero, DRG, Nestea, MMA, MVP. That's already more than uber pro's than the entire foreign scene. | ||
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chrisolo
Germany2608 Posts
On December 31 2011 16:43 Resonance wrote: 1)Sweden for sure: Thorzain, nani and jinro. No Sase morrow and the others aren't that great. 2)USA: IdrA(pronounced ih-dra, kinda like idiot), Sheth 3) Canada: HuK, combatex, HairZerg(firezerg) something high)France: definitely not. You have stephano kbye LOL, so Adelscott, ToD, MoMaN, Aures, KenZy, Sarens is worse then Combat-Ex and HairZerg (I heard that nick the first time ever on TL...) ? I do not think so, buddy. France is on par, if not better then Canada. For Canada you can make a good team too: HuK, Kiwikaki, TT1, Drewbie, JF (does he still play some?) I think it would be close in an all-kill format Canada vs France. Pretty even: HuK =< Stephano Kiwikaki = ToD TT1 >= Sarens Drewbie >= MoMaN JF = Aures/KenZy Imho. My top 10 (with 5 players each): 1) Sweden (Naniwa, SaSe, Morrow, ThorZaiN, (Sjow/Bischu/Jimpo/JinrO/merZ one of these) ) 2) Ukraine (White-Ra, Kas, DIMAGA, Strelok, (Bly/Alf/HappyZerg) ) 3) Poland (MaNa, Nerchio, Tarson, Diestar, Tefel/ParanOid/Slider) 4) France (Stephano, ToD, Sarens, MoMaN, KenZy) 5) Canada (HuK, TT1, Drewbie, Kiwikaki, JF) 6) Germany (Socke, HasuObs, DarKForCe, GoOdy, Delphi/Mondragon/XlorD/RINE) 7) USA (IdrA, Sheth, qxc, Attero, Gatored) 8) BeNeLux (Grubby, Ret, Feast, DabOo, Orly) 9) Finland (Naama, Satinii, Fuzer, elfi, SeiN) 10) Russia (Brat_OK, TitaN, Aristeo, slivko , Abver/VERDI/Roll/Ho8ot) Rank 8-10 is really close tho. | ||
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nastyyy
United States262 Posts
On December 31 2011 18:51 giorgio wrote: C'mon. Idra is TOP player ? He's kinda good, but not a very high level. USA so hype From Europe it's Sweden. Can't say who on 2nd place, bcuz have many strong national teams. Which American do you think is better than IdrA? | ||
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Zorgaz
Sweden2951 Posts
But seriously, we have alot of good players .ThorZaIN, Naniwa, Sase, Morrow, Jinro, (SjoW, Merz, Bischu ->list goes on) Man i would love to see a National Team League where countries can battle it out with teams of say 5-10 players. That would be AWESOME | ||
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LlamaNamedOsama
United States1900 Posts
On December 31 2011 19:20 box-killa wrote: Its kind of spread out across the entire globe You've got idra from the US Huk from canada stephano from france whiteRA and Kas from ukraine they are the best foreigners to be honest. sweden has a lot of good pros but no "super pros" if you know what I mean. I'd have to say the best is ukraine because it has the best protoss and terran in europe. ...I'm kind of puzzled why you consider whitera/kas "super pros" but not Naniwa. 1st at MLG Global/2nd at MLG providence...neither Whitera nor Kas have had any tournament wins in a place with a korean presence, which seems to be what you define as a "super pro." This is really a tough question to settle because different tournament formats and the variables of a team league mean that the "best team" on paper doesn't always pan out - look at GSTL. While there's lot of talk about the US being overrated, you can never underestimate US players. There's the obvious top lineup for Idra, Sheth, qxc, and Gatored, but you have those like Trimaster or wbc that can always snipe/pull off upsets out of nowhere (trimaster beating idra/hwangsin, wbc beating Oz, hell even Gatored's great performance being so recent). There's a lot of talent that just doesn't get that much exposure, imo. Of course, Sweden, Ukraine, and Poland are up there. France, while having a solid enough lineup, doesn't exactly have many players with strong wins in big tournaments besides Stephano - this could be an issue of exposure like the US, but the plenitude of european tournaments says otherwise. Awhile ago Germany would've been near the top, but players like Socke, Darkforce, and TLO are all a bit far from their last big tournament performances. If Canada had Huk, they'd be solid, too. Huk, Kiwikaki, Slush, Drewbie, TT1, dde. Of course, my bias would want Huk on the US team ^^, in which the US would really be a force to reckon with. I also think a lot of people are underrating China. At WCG, the Chinese players seemed to be consistently a level above others (with the exception of the koreans of course). Personally, I'd put: 1. China 2. Sweden 3. US 4. Ukraine 5. Poland 6. France 7. Germany 8. Canada [last 4 are pretty arbitrarily arranged, and #3 is if US has Huk, otherwise I'd say it'd be the last 5 that could be interchangeable] | ||
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Belki
Denmark9 Posts
On December 31 2011 19:35 chrisolo wrote: LOL, so Adelscott, ToD, MoMaN, Aures, KenZy, Sarens is worse then Combat-Ex and HairZerg (I heard that nick the first time ever on TL...) ? I do not think so, buddy. France is on par, if not better then Canada. For Canada you can make a good team too: HuK, Kiwikaki, TT1, Drewbie, JF (does he still play some?) I think it would be close in an all-kill format Canada vs France. Pretty even: HuK =< Stephano Kiwikaki = ToD TT1 >= Sarens Drewbie >= MoMaN JF = Aures/KenZy Imho. My top 10 (with 5 players each): 1) Sweden (Naniwa, SaSe, Morrow, ThorZaiN, (Sjow/Bischu/Jimpo/JinrO/merZ one of these) ) 2) Ukraine (White-Ra, Kas, DIMAGA, Strelok, (Bly/Alf/HappyZerg) ) 3) Poland (MaNa, Nerchio, Tarson, Diestar, Tefel/ParanOid/Slider) 4) France (Stephano, ToD, Sarens, MoMaN, KenZy) 5) Canada (HuK, TT1, Drewbie, Kiwikaki, JF) 6) Germany (Socke, HasuObs, DarKForCe, GoOdy, Delphi/Mondragon/XlorD/RINE) 7) USA (IdrA, Sheth, qxc, Attero, Gatored) 8) BeNeLux (Grubby, Ret, Feast, DabOo, Orly) 9) Finland (Naama, Satinii, Fuzer, elfi, SeiN) 10) Russia (Brat_OK, TitaN, Aristeo, slivko , Abver/VERDI/Roll/Ho8ot) Rank 8-10 is really close tho. Nice Top10! | ||
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Roychez
Netherlands54 Posts
2. Ukraine (Kas, White-Ra, Dimaga, Strelok, HappyZerg) 3. China, surprised no one named them yet, as far as I read (Loner, LoveTT, xiaOt, XiGua, F91/Infi) 4. Germany (HasuObs, Socke, Darkforce, Goody, TLO) 5. USA (IdrA, qxc, Tyler, Sheth, Gatored) | ||
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Durp
Canada3117 Posts
On December 31 2011 19:35 chrisolo wrote: LOL, so Adelscott, ToD, MoMaN, Aures, KenZy, Sarens is worse then Combat-Ex and HairZerg (I heard that nick the first time ever on TL...) ? I do not think so, buddy. France is on par, if not better then Canada. For Canada you can make a good team too: HuK, Kiwikaki, TT1, Drewbie, JF (does he still play some?) I think it would be close in an all-kill format Canada vs France. Pretty even: HuK =< Stephano Kiwikaki = ToD TT1 >= Sarens Drewbie >= MoMaN JF = Aures/KenZy Imho. My top 10 (with 5 players each): 1) Sweden (Naniwa, SaSe, Morrow, ThorZaiN, (Sjow/Bischu/Jimpo/JinrO/merZ one of these) ) 2) Ukraine (White-Ra, Kas, DIMAGA, Strelok, (Bly/Alf/HappyZerg) ) 3) Poland (MaNa, Nerchio, Tarson, Diestar, Tefel/ParanOid/Slider) 4) France (Stephano, ToD, Sarens, MoMaN, KenZy) 5) Canada (HuK, TT1, Drewbie, Kiwikaki, JF) 6) Germany (Socke, HasuObs, DarKForCe, GoOdy, Delphi/Mondragon/XlorD/RINE) 7) USA (IdrA, Sheth, qxc, Attero, Gatored) 8) BeNeLux (Grubby, Ret, Feast, DabOo, Orly) 9) Finland (Naama, Satinii, Fuzer, elfi, SeiN) 10) Russia (Brat_OK, TitaN, Aristeo, slivko , Abver/VERDI/Roll/Ho8ot) Rank 8-10 is really close tho. I'm sorry, was anyone from France you mentioned other than Stephano supposed to be good? I have never been impressed with Adel's play, ToD seems really hit or miss to me, and Sarens/MoMaN, while good GM ladder players, are nowhere near the elite of this game. It's funny, in this quest to find the best players of each country (and improve our national ePeen) we forgot the most important aspect; choosing players who are actually good. Naming players with essentially zero legitimate tournament results is a waste of time. Every country has dozens of them. Shit, Canada has me. I haven't won anything yet, but I'm great, trust me. I just need to get over my stage game fright. I'm shocked this thread is still open. Sweden wins. Canada , USA, and maybe Ukraine bring up the rear. I value being in Code-S pretty much higher than the other results. Jinro, HuK, and IdrA earned their way there, and have all at one point or another succeeded. Then add Naniwa, Sase, Thorzain, and Morrow. Then add all the good players that aren't code-s level (thinking HayprO). Why do we bother with this? 1. South Korea 2. Sweden There you go, Sweden wins the foreign country battle, and has the largest penis size per capita of all non-South Korean countries. Time to move on. | ||
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fox77
Canada95 Posts
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Kaitokid
Germany1327 Posts
On December 31 2011 19:35 chrisolo wrote: LOL, so Adelscott, ToD, MoMaN, Aures, KenZy, Sarens is worse then Combat-Ex and HairZerg (I heard that nick the first time ever on TL...) ? I do not think so, buddy. France is on par, if not better then Canada. For Canada you can make a good team too: HuK, Kiwikaki, TT1, Drewbie, JF (does he still play some?) I think it would be close in an all-kill format Canada vs France. Pretty even: HuK =< Stephano Kiwikaki = ToD TT1 >= Sarens Drewbie >= MoMaN JF = Aures/KenZy Imho. My top 10 (with 5 players each): 1) Sweden (Naniwa, SaSe, Morrow, ThorZaiN, (Sjow/Bischu/Jimpo/JinrO/merZ one of these) ) 2) Ukraine (White-Ra, Kas, DIMAGA, Strelok, (Bly/Alf/HappyZerg) ) 3) Poland (MaNa, Nerchio, Tarson, Diestar, Tefel/ParanOid/Slider) 4) France (Stephano, ToD, Sarens, MoMaN, KenZy) 5) Canada (HuK, TT1, Drewbie, Kiwikaki, JF) 6) Germany (Socke, HasuObs, DarKForCe, GoOdy, Delphi/Mondragon/XlorD/RINE) 7) USA (IdrA, Sheth, qxc, Attero, Gatored) 8) BeNeLux (Grubby, Ret, Feast, DabOo, Orly) 9) Finland (Naama, Satinii, Fuzer, elfi, SeiN) 10) Russia (Brat_OK, TitaN, Aristeo, slivko , Abver/VERDI/Roll/Ho8ot) Rank 8-10 is really close tho. KenZy is not top 5 France level. Also what about TLO for Germany? ServaNt Benelux? Welmu Finland? Happy Russia? Slush Canada? | ||
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fox77
Canada95 Posts
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Amalaxi
United States180 Posts
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Demicore
France503 Posts
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
The funny thing is a lot of the nations that have done well for themselves in the past are still amongst the top nations now. It will always be redundant. There are very few top players out there. The divide is there even with all the volatility of the game and it will continue to change. | ||
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MrMongo
Germany64 Posts
On January 01 2012 03:53 Amalaxi wrote: slush is underrated when he hasn't won anything, but stephano is overrated and hes won tournaments? nice logic Stephano is overrated for what he has achieved I guess? He basically won 2 tourneys and is by some considered better than the likes of HuK and such, although they have constantly show that they are Top Tier for over a year now. Slush is underrated, because what he achieved during his MLG runs was way more impressive than most of us actually can comprehend. I'm really not saying that either one of them is "rated" wrong, but that's just how people see it. Let Slush win a tourney in the future, let Stephano show his awesome play for some more months and both statements will be proven wrong. I think there should be 2 Top 5s. One that consideres only the Best Player of each nation and one that consideres more than just 2 or 3 ppl, because there are vast differences. I personally would say that Stephano is better than any of the current German players, but the German team is well balanced and I'd consider them better than a team of French players. But in all honesty... It would depend on the form of the day. Only thing that can be said with 100% is that as a team Sweden would be nearly unbeatable, though any other country could all-kill them with their ace-player at his best. Also, why is there even a dispute between France and Canada now? Aren't they the same? j/k. | ||
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Zorkmid
4410 Posts
.I'd have to say Sweden by far, Ukraine and France are strong too. | ||
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kafkaesque
Germany2006 Posts
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KulterBaun
Sweden44 Posts
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jumbotroN
Peru229 Posts
Jinro's run on the GSL is going to be the best foreign accomplishment in Wings of Liberty IMHO. Waiting for HotS and LAN support, WoL has nothing on BW. | ||
Zealously
East Gorteau22261 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On December 31 2011 19:35 chrisolo wrote: LOL, so Adelscott, ToD, MoMaN, Aures, KenZy, Sarens is worse then Combat-Ex and HairZerg (I heard that nick the first time ever on TL...) ? I do not think so, buddy. France is on par, if not better then Canada. For Canada you can make a good team too: HuK, Kiwikaki, TT1, Drewbie, JF (does he still play some?) I think it would be close in an all-kill format Canada vs France. Pretty even: HuK =< Stephano Kiwikaki = ToD TT1 >= Sarens Drewbie >= MoMaN JF = Aures/KenZy Imho. My top 10 (with 5 players each): 1) Sweden (Naniwa, SaSe, Morrow, ThorZaiN, (Sjow/Bischu/Jimpo/JinrO/merZ one of these) ) 2) Ukraine (White-Ra, Kas, DIMAGA, Strelok, (Bly/Alf/HappyZerg) ) 3) Poland (MaNa, Nerchio, Tarson, Diestar, Tefel/ParanOid/Slider) 4) France (Stephano, ToD, Sarens, MoMaN, KenZy) 5) Canada (HuK, TT1, Drewbie, Kiwikaki, JF) 6) Germany (Socke, HasuObs, DarKForCe, GoOdy, Delphi/Mondragon/XlorD/RINE) 7) USA (IdrA, Sheth, qxc, Attero, Gatored) 8) BeNeLux (Grubby, Ret, Feast, DabOo, Orly) 9) Finland (Naama, Satinii, Fuzer, elfi, SeiN) 10) Russia (Brat_OK, TitaN, Aristeo, slivko , Abver/VERDI/Roll/Ho8ot) Rank 8-10 is really close tho. Attero is Canadian -____- | ||
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fox77
Canada95 Posts
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KicKDoG
Sweden765 Posts
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
I'd put US above Germany. To me Canada and the US are a wash. Aside from an elite player or two, the rest of their rosters are filled out with solid, but not great players. | ||
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Veritas.13
United States48 Posts
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00Visor
4337 Posts
Thats because the Russian community isn't very well represented on TL (I guess their have their own sites). And Russian players don't even travel to European LANs that often because its quite far away. Pomi did well in IEM Kiev. Rox.Kis had strong showings in teamleague qualifiers. (as did Empire) They have no real superstar, but a very broad strong lineup. | ||
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
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Elenar
Sweden137 Posts
On January 25 2012 05:40 Tenks wrote: Yeah Russia may have the best foreigner Terran lineup Lol I hope you are joking? | ||
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NexCa
Germany954 Posts
2. Sweden 3. Germany 4. Canada / US 5. Russia in that order i'd say | ||
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MCDayC
United Kingdom14464 Posts
2. Sweden 3. Ukraine After that it becomes pure conjecture. | ||
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Zaxon
Belgium209 Posts
Thorzain,Naniwa,Morrow,Sase,Jinro,Sjow and i probably forgot some... ukraine is close though | ||
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Kluey
Canada1197 Posts
Ukraine has Kas, WhiteRa, Strelok and Dimaga as top 4 players. Sweden has Naniwa, ThorZaIN, SaSe and Morrow. | ||
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KalWarkov
Germany4126 Posts
2) ukraine after that: canada, usa, germany, france, poland (excluding china here) | ||
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Tenks
United States3104 Posts
My mistake I thought Kas was Russian. I retract my statement. No country has a good foreigner Terran lineup. | ||
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intotheheart
Canada33091 Posts
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Pulimuli
Sweden2766 Posts
On January 25 2012 05:40 Tenks wrote: Yeah Russia may have the best foreigner Terran lineup They have BratOK and Happy... thats about it Turuk as well but he's not top notch | ||
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Detwiler
United States239 Posts
Well actually Sweden but still... America fuck yeah! | ||
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Utinni
Canada1196 Posts
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Northern_iight
Canada363 Posts
On January 25 2012 05:49 IntoTheheart wrote: Why is Canada on so many lists? Any high-levelled players you guys'd like to mention? huk. kiwikaki, slush, ostojiy, dde | ||
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magnaflow
Canada1521 Posts
Drewbie, probably a few others as well | ||
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Micket
United Kingdom2163 Posts
2. Koreans living outside Korea (doesn't really count) 3. Ukraine 4. Sweden 5. Germany 6. Poland/France/USA | ||
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Utinni
Canada1196 Posts
On January 25 2012 05:49 IntoTheheart wrote: Why is Canada on so many lists? Any high-levelled players you guys'd like to mention? huk(yes he is american too), kiwikaki, drewbie, stalife, tt1, slush, attero, alexcmoi, warden, wannabe, ostijoy, dde are the better Canadians. | ||
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meadbert
United States681 Posts
#2 Sweden #3 Ukraine #4 Poland (Mostly Nerchio and Mana) #5 China #6 France (Mostly Stephano) #7 Russia #8 USA #9 Germany #10 Canada | ||
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Utinni
Canada1196 Posts
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KinQuh
Finland810 Posts
In other words...HuK. | ||
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Mazer
Canada1086 Posts
After that it's several countries all close to each other: Ukraine, Poland, Germany, USA, Canada, Russia, France in that order more or less Not sure exactly where China stands tbh but they should be up there. Any of those listed above could take a nation war from Sweden. It's actually pretty exciting that it's so difficult to pick a clear top 5. | ||
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Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
On January 25 2012 05:58 Utinni wrote: NATIONS CUP, NAOOOWW One can only hope! :D | ||
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Seraphone
United Kingdom1219 Posts
For example the USA has: Idra Huk Sheth Select Gatored/Illusion/Tyler/Destiny/QXC/KawaiiRice/Axslav (as the 5th guy) So in a format similar to IPL Team Arena I'd say the USA can field a lineup as strong as any non Korean Nation. But beyond the depth of their big four (two of which are debatebly Canadian and Korean) they don't have a lot to rival Sweden. | ||
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sVnteen
Germany2238 Posts
On January 25 2012 05:57 meadbert wrote: #1 Korea #2 Sweden #3 Ukraine #4 Poland (Mostly Nerchio and Mana) #5 China #6 France (Mostly Stephano) #7 Russia #8 USA #9 Germany #10 Canada china as 5? only loner made a small impact at blizz con way earlier but since then they havent had any results that are worth mentioning they always do really poorly at foreign tournaments also russia is no way better than canada or germany - nor is USA france are pretty much stephano and tod then it becomes very mediocre ukraine poland and sweden are probably the top 3 (non-korean ofc) and then france and germany and canada pretty much on the same level imo then quite a bit of nothing and then probably russia and USA (only atm ofc but sheth and qxc are really not that active in tourneys lately and that 2 europeans were top 4 at us qualifier pretty much tells the story) | ||
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sVnteen
Germany2238 Posts
On January 25 2012 06:05 Seraphone wrote: Depends massively on if we're talking in a tournament or overall. For example the USA has: Idra Huk Sheth Select Gatored/Illusion/Tyler/Destiny/QXC/KawaiiRice/Axslav (as the 5th guy) So in a format similar to IPL Team Arena I'd say the USA can field a lineup as strong as any non Korean Nation. But beyond the depth of their big four (two of which are debatebly Canadian and Korean) they don't have a lot to rival Sweden. select not USA huk not USA and the lineups is dead some of those guys you listed as your 5th slot are going to form a really strong team soon imo | ||
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forsooth
United States3648 Posts
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Seraphone
United Kingdom1219 Posts
On January 25 2012 06:06 sVnteen wrote: china as 5? only loner made a small impact at blizz con way earlier but since then they havent had any results that are worth mentioning they always do really poorly at foreign tournaments also russia is no way better than canada or germany - nor is USA france are pretty much stephano and tod then it becomes very mediocre ukraine poland and sweden are probably the top 3 (non-korean ofc) and then france and germany and canada pretty much on the same level imo then quite a bit of nothing and then probably russia and USA (only atm ofc but sheth and qxc are really not that active in tourneys lately and that 2 europeans were top 4 at us qualifier pretty much tells the story) Germany are better than Poland. Poland have two top foreigners but almost no depth. Germany can put out a good 10 players. | ||
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Seraphone
United Kingdom1219 Posts
On January 25 2012 06:09 sVnteen wrote: select not USA huk not USA and the lineups is dead some of those guys you listed as your 5th slot are going to form a really strong team soon imo Huk could be American if he wanted (legit dual nationality) and Select has represented the USA at Blizzcon. | ||
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GrapeApe
1053 Posts
On January 25 2012 06:09 sVnteen wrote: select not USA huk not USA and the lineups is dead some of those guys you listed as your 5th slot are going to form a really strong team soon imo Select has alternated his flag throughout much of his gaming career, if I remember corrently. I thought I remember seeing him fly an American flag at times during his DoW and WC3 days. Could be wrong, though. | ||
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ComusLoM
Norway3547 Posts
On January 25 2012 06:02 Mazer wrote: Sweden #1 After that it's several countries all close to each other: Ukraine, Poland, Germany, USA, Canada, Russia, France in that order more or less Not sure exactly where China stands tbh but they should be up there. Any of those listed above could take a nation war from Sweden. It's actually pretty exciting that it's so difficult to pick a clear top 5. USA would lose 9/10 times to Sweden, Ukraine, Germany and Russia in a Best of 7 proleague (not winners) style format. And since the point of nation wars is the depth of the team I feel that would be the most appropriate amount of games. I have no idea why US players aren't as good given their potential and the amount of people on the NA server. I would guess it has something to do with the gaming culture and just how spread out the whole scene in the US is. However given the MLG's and CSL and HSL I think in 2-3 years the US should be easily in the top 3 nations regarding player strength and depth along with China and South Korea. But right now the talent from the US is pretty much a joke compared to the smaller more compact European scenes. France and Poland also have better depth and strength than the US team at the moment, but they're not as far ahead of the US as other nations. I really think it's criminal how underrated the Russian team is, unfortunately they're always always always plagued with Visa problems. Right now if I had to rank the top four I'd put Sweden and Ukraine ahead by a far stretch then Russia and finally Germany. Of course China is a complete unknown to me so I won't comment. As a Norwegian I have no bias as my Country sucks except for the people on Gamers League and I really hope they step up. | ||
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Santiago4ever
Sweden299 Posts
On January 25 2012 06:11 Seraphone wrote: Huk could be American if he wanted (legit dual nationality) and Select has represented the USA at Blizzcon. I really doubt that Select has an american passport. | ||
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ratzp0li
United States340 Posts
Holy shit Grubby, Ret + Rotterdam fighting!! | ||
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TheDougler
Canada8306 Posts
Also I almost think Ukraine could beat sweden in an epic nation war these days after IEM Kiev... Sase, Naniwa and Sjow would put up a hard fight though, but I think the ukranians could beat the rest of Sweden's lineup pretty easily now (though Thorzain is still a beast). Fine, I guess sweden still wins, but it's kinda close at the top there. | ||
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Kitaen
Austria466 Posts
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Santiago4ever
Sweden299 Posts
On January 25 2012 06:15 GrapeApe wrote: Select has alternated his flag throughout much of his gaming career, if I remember corrently. I thought I remember seeing him fly an American flag at times during his DoW and WC3 days. Could be wrong, though. He moved to USA late in DoW history. Even if he used an american flag (which I really don't remember. I know he played some tournaments a while after moving but still used korean flag afaik) he was a korean citizen. Oh and sweden would rip every non-korean nation in SC2, just as they would have done in DoW :D | ||
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hahaimhenry
Canada368 Posts
On January 25 2012 06:16 ratzp0li wrote: I think you guys are forgetting about the netherlands Holy shit Grubby, Ret + Rotterdam fighting!! What does rotterdam have to do with the topic? | ||
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Drolla
United Kingdom389 Posts
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Gosi
Sweden9072 Posts
On January 25 2012 06:15 GrapeApe wrote: Select has alternated his flag throughout much of his gaming career, if I remember corrently. I thought I remember seeing him fly an American flag at times during his DoW and WC3 days. Could be wrong, though. ![[image loading]](http://wis.wcg.com/upload/content/photo/200704/1021_112.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Plexa/20Q20A/select3.jpg) Also, SeleCT didn't "represent USA" at Blizzcon, he was there because he won that NA Blizzcon thing that he got invited to because he pretty much owned the NA ladder at the time. | ||
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Sableyeah
Netherlands2119 Posts
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Waterflow
Sweden1550 Posts
On January 25 2012 06:18 TheDougler wrote: I agree that Germany is better than Canda by the narowest of margins (DAMN YOU HASUOBS!!!!!!!) But, I'd rank Canada over USA any day and I don't think I'm even being too biased. Guess it all depends on how you count HuK though. Also I almost think Ukraine could beat sweden in an epic nation war these days after IEM Kiev... Sase, Naniwa and Sjow would put up a hard fight though, but I think the ukranians could beat the rest of Sweden's lineup pretty easily now (though Thorzain is still a beast). Fine, I guess sweden still wins, but it's kinda close at the top there. I don't know why you would say that based on a tournament where only 1 swede participated and he got eliminated by a korean. Was like 4 ukrainians there i think and 1 swede. It doesn't say much really. Not a fair comparison imo. We will have to see when there is a more even number of players from both countries competing in the same tournament. | ||
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Bocian
Poland259 Posts
On January 25 2012 06:10 Seraphone wrote: Germany are better than Poland. Poland have two top foreigners but almost no depth. Germany can put out a good 10 players. Poland has Mana, Nerchio, Diestar, Romson, Tefel, Tarson. 15 guys in GM We are really good but some on those guys are not that known. Well Germany is really good either, but I feel it's really hard to tell which country has better lineup | ||
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TimeMithrandir
Germany4 Posts
2.Sweden(Nani,Morrow,Thorzain,SjoW) 3.Ukr(White-Ra,Kas,Strelok,Dima) 4.Ger(Socke,Hasu,DF,Goody...) 5.PolandNerchio Tarson and Mana) | ||
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Scio
Germany522 Posts
1st Tier: Sweden, Ukraine 2nd Tier: Canada, Germany, Poland, France 3rd Tier: USA, Russia, Netherlands 4th Tier: Italy (Cloud), Belgium (Feast, the IEM Kiev underdog), Finland (Naama), UK (Demuslim) and probably some countries i forgot the players from.... No real order in any of these....maybe USA at the top of the 3rd tier | ||
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oxxo
988 Posts
2) Sweden, Ukraine 3) Canada, Germany, France, USA 4) Poland 5) Everyone else. | ||
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RageCommodore
Germany912 Posts
Ukraine/Sweden is undeniably at the top though. | ||
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
I would put Sweden, Ukraine and China on the 2nd tier, first tier being Korea. Xigua had a very strong performance at WCG, I am curious to see if Macsed and Xigua can survive in Code A, something most foreigners have not been able to do. | ||
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TT1
Canada10011 Posts
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HadesCP
Canada98 Posts
On January 25 2012 06:53 mTwTT1 wrote: iem is hosting a nation wars league soon so theres no need to speculate on who the best country is, well have the facts soon enought Awesome, will you be lacing em up for Canada? Wonder who else will too.. | ||
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Xiron
Germany1233 Posts
On January 25 2012 06:50 RageCommodore wrote: Fun fact: pretty much all of Germany's up and coming players are Terrans lol. Just realized that we have like 20 players in GM. Ukraine/Sweden is undeniably at the top though. I noticed this aswell O_O But oh well, better only terrans than no terrans, no toss and no zerg :D And I have to agree, Sweden/Ukraine is definetly miles ahead of the rest of the foreign world. ( I wouldn't count HuK as he basically lives in Korea ) Personally I'd find it awesome if Grubby would get more exposure to the international scene. Since he's on his own team he won't ever compete in team leagues or hardly ever on sponsored showmatches. Pretty sad imho. | ||
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Tidus Mino
United Kingdom1108 Posts
On January 25 2012 06:45 Scio wrote: mmhh i would do it that way: 1st Tier: Sweden, Ukraine 2nd Tier: Canada, Germany, Poland, France 3rd Tier: USA, Russia, Netherlands 4th Tier: Italy (Cloud), Belgium (Feast, the IEM Kiev underdog), Finland (Naama), UK (Demuslim) and probably some countries i forgot the players from.... No real order in any of these....maybe USA at the top of the 3rd tier You kidding me? UK, Demuslim, Lau, BlinG | ||
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RageCommodore
Germany912 Posts
On January 25 2012 06:57 Tidus Mino wrote: You kidding me? UK, Demuslim, Lau, BlinG Well... Lau lost badly to TaKe, so I'm not too sure of his level of play :D | ||
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obsKura
Ireland1061 Posts
--- Sweden so scary with NaNiWa, SaSe, ThorZaiN, MorroW, Jinro, Sjow, HayprO, Bischu, merz, Cytoplasm, Seiplo, LaLush, Naugrim, Jimpo Ukraine scary as well but not that many players than Sweden: White-ra, DIMAGA, Strelok, Kas, Bly, HappyZerg, ALF Germany pretty solid with Socke, HasuObs, DarKFoRcE, TLO, GoOdy, Delphi, Xlord (Mondragon) | ||
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Scio
Germany522 Posts
On January 25 2012 06:57 Tidus Mino wrote: You kidding me? UK, Demuslim, Lau, BlinG Yea i forgot Bling but even then every country from Tier 3 is still stronger^^ Aslo @people ranking Korea as #1 should check the threadtitle | ||
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Sajaki
Canada1135 Posts
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gruff
Sweden2276 Posts
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gruff
Sweden2276 Posts
On January 25 2012 06:53 mTwTT1 wrote: iem is hosting a nation wars league soon so theres no need to speculate on who the best country is, well have the facts soon enought Didn't a lot of players turn that down? Or maybe I'm confusing it with some other nation esque war competition. | ||
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AnachronisticAnarchy
United States2957 Posts
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DjRetro
Chile309 Posts
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RageCommodore
Germany912 Posts
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rckY
Germany116 Posts
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Pocky52
United States463 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On January 25 2012 05:25 Defacer wrote: I'd put US above Germany. To me Canada and the US are a wash. Aside from an elite player or two, the rest of their rosters are filled out with solid, but not great players. What? Did you even look half of what you said up? | ||
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RooStaR
United States58 Posts
On January 25 2012 06:53 mTwTT1 wrote: iem is hosting a nation wars league soon so theres no need to speculate on who the best country is, well have the facts soon enought So will HuK be on the USA team or the Canada team? HuK was born in the US and lived ~16 years there. | ||
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ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
On January 25 2012 08:29 RooStaR wrote: So will HuK be on the USA team or the Canada team? HuK was born in the US and lived ~16 years there. which country did HuK represent for WCG? your answer is probably there | ||
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jimminy_kriket
Canada5520 Posts
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ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
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Psychobabas
2531 Posts
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Kimla
Sweden400 Posts
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AmstAff
Germany949 Posts
3. Germany / Poland / Russia 6. Canada 7. USA / a lot of other Countries (I only see IdrA who is outstanding and the rest of the American players could be beaten by any other top player of other nations that I haven't mentioned: France, Netherlands, Norway and so on just as examples) | ||
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Therg
Sweden238 Posts
Apart from China I have to go with Sweden, just because we have more top players than Ukraine. Naniwa, Thorzain, Jinro, SaSe, Morrow, Sjow, Haypro are the big ones I guess... | ||
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
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Chris1097
United States35 Posts
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McFeser
United States2458 Posts
On January 25 2012 09:28 AmstAff wrote: 1. Sweden / Ukraine 3. Germany / Poland / Russia 6. Canada 7. USA / a lot of other Countries (I only see IdrA who is outstanding and the rest of the American players could be beaten by any other top player of other nations that I haven't mentioned: France, Netherlands, Norway and so on just as examples) Yeah, USA is pretty low. I think back in the old BW days you could make a case for the US (Tyler, IdrA, Artosis, and I'm assuming a few others) but I wasn't around then so I don't even know if our lineup was strong then | ||
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MoDerNWW
United States1 Post
2. Ukraine 3. China 4. Russia 5. Germany | ||
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Rixi
Spain77 Posts
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Corsica
Ukraine1854 Posts
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Corsica
Ukraine1854 Posts
, so Ukraine first right now (IEM) I hope MorroW ThorZaIN and nAni can step up their game EDIT: You guys forgetting about poland, i think 3rd place: MaNa, Nerchio, Tarson (inconsistent but good) | ||
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ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
On January 25 2012 09:36 McFeser wrote: Yeah, USA is pretty low. I think back in the old BW days you could make a case for the US (Tyler, IdrA, Artosis, and I'm assuming a few others) but I wasn't around then so I don't even know if our lineup was strong then USA wasn't bad in broodwar but it was never amazing either (at least not when I played and I stopped in 2006) | ||
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Pulimuli
Sweden2766 Posts
On January 25 2012 11:18 ReignFayth wrote: USA wasn't bad in broodwar but it was never amazing either (at least not when I played and I stopped in 2006) You're forgetting Froz,Assem,Yosh? they were all pretty darn good imo but then Sweden had everlast,SaFT,WiLLEt,Whiz,TreK | ||
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