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On August 05 2010 02:02 koswinner wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2010 01:52 Saracen wrote:On August 05 2010 01:48 koswinner wrote:
I laughted at copper league ideas that '200/200 roaches' are everything u need to win, or 'zerg mass hydra/roaches all the time', or 'ultralist has always been strong'.
Rofl, do u really play zerg at high level or have any serious idea about the race/unit? I'm 100% sure everyone in this thread that you just tried to make fun of is light years better than you. rofl, back in beta days, I had 1800+ rating, the number of people that are ranked higher than me is surely more than the number of people in this thread, but statistically the chance that every1 in this thread is better than me is 0. learn some math before going out trolling kid. And if you got a chance, just go back times when roaches are 1 supply and u try to mass them, I'll be laughing at ur win%. Almost all mainstream strategies from T/P at that time rapes you hard for sure. Ofc I'm not too familiar with the situation in copper league. And meanwhile, enjoy your fansy imaginations about how much better you are than me. :D
You're bragging about a 1800+ rating? Really? Really? Every single person you just quoted was 2000+ in phase one, and now is at the top of the ladder phase two. And I'll gladly play you. Hell, I'll even offrace against you. Because let me tell you something: 1800+ doesn't mean shit.
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On August 05 2010 02:06 andeh wrote:
I would love to see the hydra and roach switch tech spots (ala sc1) which gives the roach more of the tech spot of the lurker
nerf hydra stats and to 1 supply, keep roach at 2. switch their tech spots
That would be cool but would need rebalancing of T and P as well. This would almost instantly make reapers, zealots and helions useless in early game.
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As a zerg user I agree with some of that, as I only really get roaches to stop a 2 gate or rarely to tank some damage while I delay to ultras against terran, but at the same time I think 1 supply roach does make them a bit too spammable.
I agree with whoever said leave them at 2 supply and bring back 2 armor.
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Remember when Roaches were 75 min, 0 gas, 1 supply?
Remember how much fun everyone else had losing to mass roaches?
Yeah. I don't disagree that roaches are underused right now, but dropping them a full supply is a serious buff. I really think that if that happens, we're going to see the old early beta days of mass-roach all over again.
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I didn't believe in Ultras yesterday till I played a pretty good Terran. I countered his early push with speedlings naturally, then countered his second push with muts, then when he came in with vikings tanks marines and marauders he could do nothing do the 5 ultras i had accompanying my muts. I destroyed his second expansion, natural and everything he had with 1/1 ultras + the ultra only armor upgrade (+2).
All 5 ultras lived and the muts did nothing. And I recall someone using roaches in a finals match just recently.
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Just change the maps so my lings don't clump and die in two tank shots.
Thx have a nice day
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I think moving the roach movement speed upgrade down to hatch tech would be a great way to get roaches to be more viable in zvz. At the moment they are just too slow to be of any use, which leads to nothing but ling/baneling
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Thor's special does crazy damage, no clue why people do not use that to kill Ultras.
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I still dont understand how 1 supply roaches were unfair in this game! If a Zerg had the money to make 100 roaches after a big battle, for gods sake he deserves to win the game, period! Go attack before he reaches this kind of money ffs
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On August 05 2010 01:49 AcOrP wrote:
I think swap roach with hydra make hydra a bit weaker and cheaper make roach stronger and a bit more expensive.
This way there will be more balance. pre Lair zerg has lings/roaches no long range or AA.No other race has so late range/AA unit.
And so early this 2 supply mean more overlords which in early game are not that cheap.
Hydra upgrades may still be lair tech so they don't become overpowered too early.
This will give zerg a safe build from which they can transition to other builds.Basicly this won't change much late game, but will give zerg better chance in early and mid game to be aggressive,becouse now all in is the only way to be aggressive.
Nono Thats a huge Nerf. Hydras lose to hellions+ thors when repaired in the early game and siege tanks. Roaches can keep the zerg alive for some time in the early game. They just need to make it easier for zerg to reach ultras combined with a slight nerf. Thats it, and perhaps some map adjustments.
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Maybe just take out the gas requirement so getting roaches doesnt make your transition to lair that much later? If they were all minerals they would be a good mineral sink when you are out of gas too.
or make em 50/25?
I think the unit itself is fine really. takes good dmg and packs a punch. You can get a decent # of them even with the supply issue but they slow down your tech at the expense of extra overlords and lost drones.
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On August 05 2010 02:11 done wrote:
I still dont understand how 1 supply roaches were unfair in this game! If a Zerg had the money to make 100 roaches after a big battle, for gods sake he deserves to win the game, period! Go attack before he reaches this kind of money ffs
I am Terran and I want to camp like a pro in my base 3/4 of the game then come out and a-move to victory, I disagree.
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how about doubling the cost for roaches, make it 3 supply and let 2 spawn at the same time like zerglings?
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On August 05 2010 01:34 SaetZero wrote:
I'm still on the boat of 'keep 2 supply roaches, but revert them to 2 armor again.'
This.
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I agree that roaches could use a bit of a buff, but I think that putting them back to 1 supply would be way too much of a buff, instead I would say give them 2 base armor. Z vs anything was just plain stupid before the roach nerf. I mean back then I would have sworn the only units zerg had as overlords queens drones and roaches based on what people (all people even pros) produced
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I think Infested Terrans at T1 would be a good idea  Some kind of Infested Stim on T2 + Speed buff overall. Then maybe Speed Upgrade on T3?
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Imo 2 armor, 2 supply roaches would be nice, also 1 supply but nerfed stats would also be cool. I kinda like the roach and zerg in general. Need some heavy nerf to the mass reaper strategy though that's way too obnoxious, even catching the terrible terrans off guard and killing off the reapers i can still lose to the massive marauder push or insane economy from the terran fast expansion 
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I'd rather nerf the roach (dps/hp) and make it 1 supply than buff the roach with 2 supply. Just to make the race feel like Zerg. Terran / Protoss got strong units, Zerg got many.
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Roach
Marauder
Stalker
Please compare these 3 units. Cost, build time, statistics.
.......
....
.......
And now tell me with a straight face that roaches should only cost 1 supply again.
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EPT
