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On August 05 2010 01:48 koswinner wrote:
I laughted at copper league ideas that '200/200 roaches' are everything u need to win, or 'zerg mass hydra/roaches all the time', or 'ultralist has always been strong'.
Rofl, do u really play zerg at high level or have any serious idea about the race/unit?
I'm 100% sure everyone in this thread that you just tried to make fun of is light years better than you.
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How about making the hydra 1 supply again like in broodwar? and maybe giving roach its 2 armor back. Then the roach had a more specific role as tank and stuff....
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I actually agree with what the OP says, make roaches 1 supply, I didnt see a reason why they changed that in the first place and time told, that zerg needs another 1supply unit!
By now it should also be pretty much common sense, that zerg needs some kind of buff to hold even to terran at least!
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So..in summary the OP wants a 2 armor, 1 supply roach ? riiiiiiiight....
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To be honest I make about 5 roaches early-mid game if I'm being pressured early and I forget about the tech completely after that. I don't even bother making roaches because of the supply space they take up. I'd rather use the gas and minerals for lings mutas hydra or baneling (unless I have a surplus then everything gets thrown into roaches if I need the support).
I don't think reducing the roach to 1 supply is the answer though, but I believe making 2 roaches 3 supply is good medium (2 roaches pop per egg). Blizzard has commented that this is not something they want to do since it involved 1.5 supplies of units, which I get and it's understandable. Maybe add armor to the roach or make the speed a t1 upgrade or something, or give us burrow as a t1 upgrade? Idk roaches don't do it for me atm. I have more fun with Infestors lol.
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On August 05 2010 01:54 Schism wrote:
So..in summary the OP wants a 2 armor, 1 supply roach ? riiiiiiiight....
Thanks for not reading the post at all before posting.
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Well I have only two suggestions for current Zerg unit improvement:
1. Remove Armored status from all buildings (except maybe defensive ones) as Zerg has no extra damage to armored units (Ultras and Blings have special attack for buildings). This just lets Terran and Toss abuse drops to take out zerg tech without Zerg able to do that in return. This a lame thing similar to Zerg not being able to abuse cliffs in any way.
2. Give Corruptors extra damage against armored, not against massive. Corruptors are just a bit too focused on a small group of units and people have a right to complain about them.
As for the OP asking for 1 supply roaches I do not think that is the right way, but zerg needs some other different options in the start like letting burrowed roaches pass under buildings and rocks. That would almost turn Roaches into Zerg's cliff walking unit.
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zerg still hasn't adapted out of mass roaches huh...
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Just because you dont see many different openings for zerg in this early stage of the game doesnt mean they aren't possible;
Lair builds pretty quick, hydra den and infestor pit too, there must be some opener possibilities there
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On August 05 2010 01:52 Saracen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2010 01:48 koswinner wrote:
I laughted at copper league ideas that '200/200 roaches' are everything u need to win, or 'zerg mass hydra/roaches all the time', or 'ultralist has always been strong'.
Rofl, do u really play zerg at high level or have any serious idea about the race/unit? I'm 100% sure everyone in this thread that you just tried to make fun of is light years better than you.
rofl, back in beta days, I had 1800+ rating, the number of people that are ranked higher than me is surely more than the number of people in this thread, but statistically the chance that every1 in this thread is better than me is 0. learn some math before going out trolling kid.
And if you got a chance, just go back times when roaches are 1 supply and u try to mass them, I'll be laughing at ur win%. Almost all mainstream strategies from T/P at that time rapes you hard for sure. Ofc I'm not too familiar with the situation in copper league.
And meanwhile, enjoy your fansy imaginations about how much better you are than me. :D
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Coming from a Zerg user:
To be honest, I use Roaches a lot. More so than Hydras. Roaches are so much better cost-wise in any ground combat. I would say 1 supply seems a little too good, but so does many other units (but not lets not get into that), so why don't we all compromise for 1.5? Not only will this be better balance-wise, but you would actually feel like you control a decent-sized swarm then. SC2 just doesn't have the same feel of SC:BW in that you're controlling a massive army.
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a lot of word wont make me think you are right with what you say... i dont think it was a mistake.
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On August 05 2010 01:36 Saracen wrote:
I wish they could see that in the late game it's not the big flashy units but the combination of all the tools you have available that makes the game. If you want to see mass carriers, go play Fastest.
I totally agree. The high end units instantly bolster your army way to much for how seemingly easy and unrisky it is to get them. ex: BCs build time is 90 seconds and they obliterate the ground, Thors come out and you instantly negate light air harass with 10 range, ect... Teching should be more of a risk and less of "if i dont tech right away then ill get run over," and the timings and refinement should come with practice and skill rather than "hey if i get this unit now ill be absolutely safe." There should be a natural progression throughout the game and in the current state Blizzard makes that hard. If there were maybe more upgrades like if the Thor had 7 range vs air and there was an upgrade for +3 range then that would make for some more dynamic and creative play as well as a steady progression.
Im not whining, its just my opinion on the current state of the game. If you play around with the game and figure out how things work you would be surprised at how many cool little tricks you can find out that will help naturally evolve SC2, like if you have a group of muta flying into your opponents base and a thor comes along, you can click past the thor with the muta until you are over it and then attack so your muta dont stack and you can snipe the thor with very minimal losses. Many people would just turn around when they would get a free thor or they would engage but just A-click the thor and the muta stack and blow up to splash. All of these "imbalance" threads can be solved by just playing better...
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On August 05 2010 02:02 HardcoreBilly wrote:
Coming from a Zerg user:
To be honest, I use Roaches a lot. More so than Hydras. Roaches are so much better cost-wise in any ground combat. I would say 1 supply seems a little too good, but so does many other units (but not lets not get into that), so why don't we all compromise for 1.5? Not only will this be better balance-wise, but you would actually feel like you control a decent-sized swarm then. SC2 just doesn't have the same feel of SC:BW in that you're controlling a massive army.
Get two roaches from same egg and it costs 3 supply? :D
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Just so you know, you're late to the Roach rage party. :|
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Increase the number of options for Zerg by making the tech come cheaper / faster. Zerg is predictable, tech slowly and therefore has few cool builds.
Now balance Zerg around that.
(And give Infestors a consume like ability! Or maybe make them explode when they are out of energy :p)
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I would love to see the hydra and roach switch tech spots (ala sc1) which gives the roach more of the tech spot of the lurker
nerf hydra stats and to 1 supply, keep roach at 2. switch their tech spots
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On August 05 2010 01:36 Floophead_III wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2010 01:34 Defrag wrote:On August 05 2010 01:31 Lz wrote:Ultras Are Buff.. if you dissagree then you're bad  I never said they were bad, they just dont come fast enough compared to other races. Do you ever see a mid-game push with speedlings/hydralisk and 1-2 ultras by zerg, as compared to 3gate/1 robo or 2 factory marine/hellion/thor ? :D Have you never played BW? Ultralisks are supposed to be endgame units. They aren't meant to deal with midgame pressure except in some really bizarre cheeses. Why the heck would something as ridiculously powerful as the ultralisk come that early. Remember unlike T and P, Z can make 12 of a unit when the tech is ready. Z tech is therefore slower to compensate.
Have you never played BW? Do you know what starts with an "L" and ends with "urker", that the SC2 Zerg would really need in its current state?
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i don't think roaches need higher supply, but zerg players overall need to start using the infestor a lot more
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I agree, I was a zerg player before and I basicly quit because of the roach nerf, Is there a poll for this? would be interesting to see what liquid thinks
Edit, And don't go around bullshiting that roaches are to strong if you get to many of them
PvZ stalkers can snipe them and the immortals take them on before breakfeast.
PvT There is this little thing called marauder
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EPT
