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On July 05 2010 03:32 Zed.iii wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2010 00:57 farseer_dk wrote:
So do you guys think that it's possible to be a diamond league, division top 10 SC2 player with 70 apm? This, I don't understand what ppl r getting this from but DIVISIONS DOESN'T COUNT IN ANY WAY IN YOUR SKILL I mean the first 100 who get into diamond will obviously be in division 1, and the next hundred in division 2 etc.. it has nothing to do with skill, you don't ever get promoted to a "better" or "worse" division, cus there's no such thing
He probably meant that top10 in his division.
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Even the OP said that there's a degree of laziness associated with his lack of APM...
I think the best mindset to approach the game is: "I want to achieve the highest APM I can"
and not: "I can play competitively with a low APM, booyah"
... like "APM" is some sort of precious commodity... it's ridiculous.
peace and love
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On July 05 2010 03:32 Zed.iii wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2010 00:57 farseer_dk wrote:
So do you guys think that it's possible to be a diamond league, division top 10 SC2 player with 70 apm? This, I don't understand what ppl r getting this from but DIVISIONS DOESN'T COUNT IN ANY WAY IN YOUR SKILL I mean the first 100 who get into diamond will obviously be in division 1, and the next hundred in division 2 etc.. it has nothing to do with skill, you don't ever get promoted to a "better" or "worse" division, cus there's no such thing
I don't believe it works that way. As I recall, they create divisions with about 50 at a time and then evenly populate across a number of them, rather than just waterfalling one at a time.
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On July 05 2010 03:40 Craton wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2010 03:32 Zed.iii wrote:On July 05 2010 00:57 farseer_dk wrote:
So do you guys think that it's possible to be a diamond league, division top 10 SC2 player with 70 apm? This, I don't understand what ppl r getting this from but DIVISIONS DOESN'T COUNT IN ANY WAY IN YOUR SKILL I mean the first 100 who get into diamond will obviously be in division 1, and the next hundred in division 2 etc.. it has nothing to do with skill, you don't ever get promoted to a "better" or "worse" division, cus there's no such thing I don't believe it works that way. As I recall, they create divisions with about 50 at a time and then evenly populate across a number of them, rather than just waterfalling one at a time.
nonetheless, his point was that divisions don't matter, just league.
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@zed.iii
i think he mean top 10 in your own devision not in the division 1-10.
EDIT: lol in the time i wrote this 4 people post the same oo
i think everything was said.
so i just agree with the ones who mean its total ok to have apm under 100.
and i agree with the ones who said to be the best you need more.
but comeon i will never be one of the best and so 99,9% of you guys.
dont "train" apm just train playing and your apm will increase.
if it dont increase, no problem just focus on making the right moves.
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I was top 20 platinum player before they had diamond. My average APM is about 60, but in battles when I'm doing micro and macro, my APM shoots to close to 200.
I'm not actually sure what I can be doing to increase my average APM. When I watch players like TLO play, they all have like 160 average APM. Maybe I just need to watch my replays.
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Ask Grubby from WC3. Never having high APM, dominating the pro scene for a long time.
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It's fine IMO. The people that brag they've got 200 apm are the people that spam usually. All that APM isn't going to help if you don't know what to do with it. I'd concentrate on doing things right (including watching replays) first and naturally you'll get faster over time and be able to do what you want to do.
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On July 05 2010 03:50 Manit0u wrote:
Ask Grubby from WC3. Never having high APM, dominating the pro scene for a long time.
Define 'high APM'.
Grubby has about 240...
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You're asking the wrong question.
Don't ask how good you can get with your current APM. Ask how good you can get. Period. APM does affect how good you are, but it is also affected BY how good you are. Just focus on getting as good as you can, regardless of APM. Your APM will go up as your skill with the game does.
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On July 05 2010 00:58 Whalecore wrote:
Really good.
Focus on remember doing the right actions instead of doing actions fast, and you'll become a great player.
I agree i watched Day[9] daily i don't remember which one was it but He told about it that you don't need to have huge apm like 400 but remember all this little things many low etc. and APM will come in time because after time you will have to make "actions" faster 
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I can't stress enough that APM comes naturally. I remember years ago when I had 80 APM and all my friends were like wow you're so fast. (They never played BW)... And then I learn about iccup and TL and wtf. Good apm here is atleast 200. I guess I just dont have talent to get better.
Overtime you will see increase in use of hotkeys, higher accuracy and you WILL get faster. I do think there is a pretty clear limit to how far you can go with 90 APM, maybe less defined than in BW but nontheless. Just don't worry about APM, just focus on getting everything done, and they you will see that you have time to squeeze in a few more actions in certain parts of the game with focus. And then later you you will be able to do it with ease. Focusing on your APM is the worst way to learn is how I'd put it. Then you end up spamming etc. Just worry about the mechanics and not APM. Hope it helps.
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play brood war, you have to do so much more micro/macro.
also, apm comes naturally. if you keep playing your apm willl rise, proven fact.
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my apm was around 70 i was a rank 1/2 (1800+) platinum/diamond player. but yeah a lot of the problems i started having in the later stages of beta was because i was too slow.
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Types of actions:
- automatic - spawning larvae, creating more units, etc
- thoughtfull - related to the strategy, which buildings to build, how many when and where, researches, etc
- micro - controling units
1st one comes with practice and repetition, 2nd with experience and knowledge, 3rd with practice and knowledge.
It's bad to put APM as an objective. APM is something that comes along when needed as you improve. As long as you do the right actions, there's no reason to not be pro with medium APM. But if it makes you feel good about yourself you can spam at the beginning of matches and get an average of 500 APM - perhaps more if you're a really fast clicker - , so even if you suck at APM it'll take time for the mean to get low.
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On July 05 2010 03:56 Conventer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2010 00:58 Whalecore wrote:
Really good.
Focus on remember doing the right actions instead of doing actions fast, and you'll become a great player. I agree i watched Day[9] daily i don't remember which one was it but He told about it that you don't need to have huge apm like 400 but remember all this little things many low etc. and APM will come in time because after time you will have to make "actions" faster
This. Day9 also said that your APM will taper off as the game progress with the exception of bursts during battles.
APM is really just remembering to do things. If you remember to do everything you will naturally have a higher APM because you will... well be doing more.
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You can easily achieve Rank 1 Diamond with 70 in-game APM, like me.
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Wow, I feel like I could have written that original post. I run around 70 apm now, as I've been rusty from not playing PC RTSes for ages. And like you, I feel like a lot of my low apm is attributed to laziness. Every once in a while I'll mentally slap myself and say "hey, stop being a lazy dick and do more stuff" and I can burst 120-140 but then my mind wanders and I drop back into my 70 apm.
I got #1 diamond with 70 apm, although I am a very sparse clicker and generally never spam-click. So you can definitely get high diamond with your apm now, at least at this stage in the game.
I actually think I would benefit from that Razer keyboard just as a mental reminder that I'm being lazy, or even better, hook an APM counter up to an airhorn and have it honk every time I go below a certain APM.
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increasing your apm definitely has diminishing returns - there are only so many useful keys to hit.
but I don't think it's productive to worry about apm. It should be more productive to worry about positioning all your units correctly, using your macro abilities all the time, being able to execute multiple attacks at once... i.e. focusing on the reasons that more actions will improve your game rather than the rate of the actions themselves
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You're low apm must be countered by your high intellect. There is no other way.
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EPT
