EPTHow good can you get with low APM? - Page 2
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Mr.E
United States434 Posts
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yarkO
Canada810 Posts
On July 05 2010 01:13 ret wrote: there is no spoon... Yea because some asshole plate keeps taking them... + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://collectingtokens.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/and_the_dish.jpg) | ||
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EliteAzn
United States661 Posts
70 is easily enough for diamond. Progamer wise, you will need to increase...but that's pro. | ||
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Syphon8
Canada298 Posts
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Bob300
United States505 Posts
On July 05 2010 01:00 Pads wrote: | | this good! I was hoping apm wouldn't be a focus in sc2 but meh. with the keyboard and mouse that light up because of your apm it will be a major factor, sadly. | ||
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Balor
United States147 Posts
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EliteAzn
United States661 Posts
On July 05 2010 01:26 Syphon8 wrote: I played in Platinum fine maxing out at 40 APM. Having a touchpad didn't help. That is actually really impressive...nice work. | ||
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farseer_dk
Canada71 Posts
On July 05 2010 01:29 EliteAzn wrote: That is actually really impressive...nice work. holycrap i'm like bottom of silver with a touchpad ahahaha... i know because I tried  | ||
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ItsTheFark
United States158 Posts
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Quanticfograw
United States2053 Posts
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BigT
United States304 Posts
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farseer_dk
Canada71 Posts
On July 05 2010 01:34 BigT wrote: You still need to watch your replays. Or at the very least have someone else watch them if you think you know everything already. It seems like you are trying to defend yourself when you were the one who called yourself "lazy" in the OP... Well I'm just reiterating the logic I use to justify (to myself) not watching my replays... flawed as it is What should I be looking out for in my replays? Should i watch myself or my opponent more? What's the best counter to have open? | ||
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Snuggles
United States1865 Posts
Even though all of us pretty much agrees that you don't need an insane amount of APM to be successful, I'm pretty sure you'd need quite a bit as the game gets older and older. I mean I play Zerg, I've been practicing with the AI this whole time working on having high APM NON-SPAM. I can hit the 170 - 230 range quite easily late game because there is soooooo much to do, and that's just my macro. I suck so I can't multitask with my micro very well, but in battles when you micro and also macro at the same time, your APM will shoot up like crazy. So when SC2 is out long enough for people to get really good at it, I predict that 200 + APMs will be a norm. I doubt 300+ APM will be around like it was in BW, for the obvious reasons. And this APM is all non-spam- it really throws you ahead of the game if your opponent simply cannot keep up, especially when you are doing all the "right" things. Before the Beta ended I had several games where it turned into an intensive macro battle where would have big armies clashing over and over. In this one game his apm was around 70 and he was ranked 7th in the diamond league at the time while my apm was a good 160 and I was ranked like 30 something. I would win easily simply by being able to fit in upgrades, expos, and creep(ovi spreading) etc. while producing a ton of units because I kept my queen energy below 50 (I think keeping queen energy low no matter what is a really good exercise). So it really goes to show that high APM has its advantages, especially when it goes into late-game where none of it is spam. All that said, the fundamentals are still more important... much more important. Not being a solid player will make you lose to a lot more crap. High APM can't get you out of a situation where the toss 4gates you and you have NO IDEA WHAT TO DO ARGGHHHH..... I could never get into the top 10 because I don't have all the fundamentals down. It was only after this month of practice I learned how to prepare myself for timing pushes and just learning what "timing" really means and what it can do lol. | ||
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BigT
United States304 Posts
And thats the beauty of watching replays. Although you know exactly what YOU did the entire game, you don't know what your opponent was doing the entire game. Sure you have a broad sense of what he did, but you don't know his exact timings. Which if you do a lot of early aggression is absolutely crucial. For a horrible example, you need to know exactly when your zerg opponent is going to have 6 lings out if you are doing early aggression. So yes, I would say the most important thing would be to first analyze what your opponent did, then go back and analyze whether or not you played appropriately. Perhaps if you had known he did "A" instead of "B" you would have reacted differently. By doing this over and over again you will start to notice re-occuring tendencies which will then trigger specific according responses. That way you will know exactly what to do vs every build possible over time. Hope that helps, Big T | ||
vileChAnCe
Canada525 Posts
I never played an RTS on a competitive level and I held the 1-3 rank spot in diamond, my APM was tripled in alot of matches. My biggest problem was misclicking I know EVERYTHING that needs to be done, but precision was lacking. http://www.d3scene.com/forum/cs-guides/18396-guide-complete-cs-s-mouse-optimization-guide.html read this and then play some OSU! if you get your mouse precision to feel natural you'll literally soar through your games! Hope this helps | ||
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farseer_dk
Canada71 Posts
On July 05 2010 01:41 Snuggles wrote: 120-150 is certainly enough for a good spot on the Diamond league. Even though all of us pretty much agrees that you don't need an insane amount of APM to be successful, I'm pretty sure you'd need quite a bit as the game gets older and older. I mean I play Zerg, I've been practicing with the AI this whole time working on having high APM NON-SPAM. I can hit the 170 - 230 range quite easily late game because there is soooooo much to do, and that's just my macro. I suck so I can't multitask with my micro very well, but in battles when you micro and also macro at the same time, your APM will shoot up like crazy. So when SC2 is out long enough for people to get really good at it, I predict that 200 + APMs will be a norm. I doubt 300+ APM will be around like it was in BW, for the obvious reasons. What AI do you play against? I can very easily beat every non-cheating AI I've tried... I need a sparring partner. | ||
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mikx
United States16 Posts
Thinking about the keyboard in SC (or any other high speed RTS) as a music instrument is a good concept for me. You practice very slow for a while (learning notes/hotkeys), play your first songs/games and after a while you will notice you are not thinking about it anymore. Certain hotkey combinations just feel like playing a riff. Misclicking is like playing a false note. And as you never stop playing on a false note during a live show you just keeping macroing in SC2 even if you make a miss on micro. Speed comes with confidence and knowing the notes/keys. Of course you can train your APM skills just "mechanically" by practicing, but usually this will come automatically. If you try to play faster and you make much more mistakes - try practicing key combos in a test map (e.g. YABOT) until you can do them without much thinking. If your error rate is low and you feel your game is at the right speed don't worry about APM. | ||
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Stripes
Australia57 Posts
I find that at about 100 its fairly easy to play without any worries because of the new hotkey set ups. I play terran and I find that since I can just set all my barracks to 4 and tab through techlabs/reactors. It really doesnt need as much as in the original where I would hotkey multiple barracks/factories to keep my macro up. | ||
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EliteAzn
United States661 Posts
On July 05 2010 01:38 farseer_dk wrote: Well I'm just reiterating the logic I use to justify (to myself) not watching my replays... flawed as it is What should I be looking out for in my replays? Should i watch myself or my opponent more? What's the best counter to have open? IF you have absolutely no idea, look at commentaries and see what the pros do. You don't have to mimic what they do, but look at their playing styles and what they do...then you can look at your own game and you can probably see your mistakes yourself...then it's just practices... (that's just what I think..) | ||
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Gerbeeros
101 Posts
I allmost broke my mouse hand during one game against other terran which took 1hour 55 minutes in which my apm rose to 80 apm avarage during the last 40 minutes of the game. I had some wrist pains for an hour after the game. During the downtime i actually learned to do my macroing and mules & scanning with hotkeys and at least against the ai:s ive improved significantly, im still bit slow and keep on missclicking stuff tho so im not really exdpecting to get even to the gold yet when the beta is back. But yeah, if someone is doing good with 50 apm in diamond id say you really know what youre doing then. | ||
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