EPTimo, even with a 70-100 apm, anyone can have the potential to be really good, just as long as those clicks and keyboard strokes are efficient. right now, i'm even trying to practice being as efficient with my micro/macro with fewer clicks. that way, when my apm does go up, i'd know it's coz i'm doing more productive stuff, not just coz i'm clicking the move command more times than necessary.
How good can you get with low APM? - Page 8
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kron0s
Philippines57 Posts
imo, even with a 70-100 apm, anyone can have the potential to be really good, just as long as those clicks and keyboard strokes are efficient. right now, i'm even trying to practice being as efficient with my micro/macro with fewer clicks. that way, when my apm does go up, i'd know it's coz i'm doing more productive stuff, not just coz i'm clicking the move command more times than necessary. | ||
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P00RKID
United States424 Posts
The more one plays in similar circumstances, the more they will remember to do and queue up commands in their head. Once you know WHAT to do, your hands and fingers will get better and better at doing those things faster. If you are playing by instinct / memory (from having practiced and having a large queue in your head) then your APM will increase naturally in that fashion. If your playing by reaction / visually then you will tend to have less apm as the queue in your mind isn't filling as fast. | ||
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ReachTheSky
United States3294 Posts
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Ownos
United States2147 Posts
On July 05 2010 01:15 Selemender wrote: High AMP's are mostly from spamming so if you only count the AMP of the non spamming you probable get under the 100 but I feel by spamming you are more focused and you can respond easier when it can gets micro intensive. You also have to be very precise with you timing when non spamming so I think it makes stuff easier by spamming I tried the whole spamming approach and I found it incredibly distracting and my play tends to suffer. That is, I get so focused on spamming that I forget to do actual useful actions.  The only times I spam is when I'm clicking units to move, but I think everyone has that habit (and actually useful to click move ASAP instead of waiting for your cursor to get into position). | ||
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Iri
150 Posts
I went back and analyzed my actions... I don't spam, I click move once, and I focus more on macro and scouting than micro. However, I do feel like I can't act fast enough in certain tough micro fights... endgame TvP where I need to stim, EMP, PDD, and be microing particular units the whole time is really hard. And a lot of the time I'll feel like I'm running on a time delay because my actions are a few seconds behind where my mind is at... this is more pronounced when I'm watching a replay from my camera, and when I've measured my apm against what I think while I watch a replay, it's at least 20 apm slower than I'm thinking. I don't feel like I'll really break top 20% diamond until I can hit 120 eapm spikes and average 70 or better. That seems to be about the magic number for keeping up with what I want to do, at least in game as it stands right now. | ||
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Santriell
Belgium151 Posts
Also the higher your APM, the higher the chances you'll misclick things around/a short lag will delay a command/etc and you'll provoke your own doom. Like in that replay where (i think) Nazgul accidentally morphed all his templars into archons because a short lag didn't register him clicking his other stack of units. Gotta know how the game COUNTS APM too. Every click & hotkey is an action. Selecting a hatchery + selecting all larvaes + 7x drones + rally point = 10 actions. Do that with 3 hatcheries and it's 30 actions in 3-4 seconds, meaning an APM of ~600 provided you've hotkeyed them all. It's pure and straight idiocy to believe high apm = skill. | ||
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TheDna
Germany577 Posts
On July 05 2010 12:38 Myles wrote: No, were not. I buy the SC2 in a new game so we don't know all the possible strategies, but the mechanics are pretty much the same, just easier. Unless a bunch of micro-intensive tricks are found, SC2 won't require as high of APM to keep up with everything. I'd like to think it's possible, but I don't think the odds are good. Ofc microtricks will be found, it took years to find stuff like mutamicro in bw.. It will just take alot of time. Also everybody is playing very poorly atm nobody is anywhere near perfection. No harrase no midgame splitattacks etc. | ||
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Sarmis
United States58 Posts
What matters is how much stuff you get done - and, ideally, getting your APM as low as possible to do so. Instead of saying wow, I had 200 APM that game - ask yourself if you needed 200 APM to do what you did. Do the right actions, at the right time, as easily and smoothly as possible. If what you are trying requires 200 APM, then so be it - but you'll get to the point of doing everything you need to do a lot faster if you cut out the extra crap. Ignore your APM. Instead look at every game you played and ask yourself what you didn't do that you should have done, and try to do that next time. Obviously your APM will go up over time, but that isn't the point of anything. Ideally, every time you play someone at your skill level, you should have lower APM then they do - because they are wasting APM and you aren't. Any wasted action is another action you could have done that wouldn't have been wasted - and those habits are very very bad ones to get into. | ||
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Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
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Snuggles
United States1865 Posts
Let's make sure that we all understand that High APM that is put to good use, is not bad, non-spam completely innocent and pure APM is good. Don't ignore this, because I feel like I'm talking to a wall when I'm trying to promote the good points of having a healthy APM, while understanding that it can be bad if it's all just spam. This post is aimed towards the people that are saying that the majority of our replies are completely retarded, and that what they're saying is right. | ||
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Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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EliteAzn
United States661 Posts
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VanGarde
Sweden755 Posts
I have played many games with a dedication through the years. Broodwar one of them. I can easily pull 300 apm in Broodwar if I want to and I used to do that while spamming a lot. When The sc2 beta was released I continued in my previous tracks and after one month of spamming for 8 hours a day in the beta I got slammed down by carpal tunnel and cubital tunnel syndrome. That was a wakeup call to me. I rearranged my computerspace more ergonomically, improved my posture, started to exercise muscles that are strained by computer use and started getting up and walking around a bit between each game. But I also stopped spamming. I can if I want to pull 250 average apm in starcraft 2, but I intentionally play a lot lower and I have never felt that there was stuff I could do at 250 that I can't do at 150, and I have never felt that I need to maintain those 150 during the early game or during any time when they are not needed and my health is better for it. The basic rule for APM would be that unless you are feeling that there is stuff you want to do but don't have the time to do it, then your APM is fine. Yes spamming will make it easier to ramp up APM in the midgame where you need to stay higher but if you can learn to ramp it up without spamming in the early game, your fingers and wrists will thank you for it. I really recommend that you focus on doing the right actions rather than pressing extra buttons needlessly. | ||
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KaRnaGe[cF]
United States355 Posts
On July 06 2010 03:04 EliteAzn wrote: I'm just wondering what people think....(i'm pretty sure I know the answer already...but some people think otherwise) This Poll is basically pointless. APM really does matter if you put it to good use, but it also is easily replicated by a nooblet wanting to look cool. Therefore your poll is pointless because APM does not = skill and everyone knows it. Find someone who is very skillfiul at SCBW and they WILL have high APM. SCBW is highly dependant on muscle memory and speed during late game and even during early or critical stages of the game where quick and accurate mouse clicks and keybinds need to be used to perform attacks. There is no way around it the game is just too mechanically demanding to thrive with low APM. SC2 however is a different story since the interface is much easier to use. How much this affects what APM is crucial to be a good player is yet to be determined i believe. As far as APM being a "trend" i do not understand since cycling hotkeys and clicks seems to me like a perfectly rational and great way to train muscle memory for when you need it. Every progamer does this and it is a basic training exercize of the pro teams from my understanding. | ||
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m.Zee
United States11 Posts
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SiNiquity
United States734 Posts
Functional APM on the other hand is likely highly correlated with skill, supposing the actions are both meaningful and useful (one could build only workers and mains, micro precisely which mineral field they went to, preventing any dancing, etc, though the viability of this strategy is obviously poor). Therefore one's functional APM is merely the byproduct of executing one's strategy and tactics. | ||
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jdr_
United States78 Posts
At that rate you're pretty much just not even trying to execute your actions quickly or efficiently if you're at 70, SC2 isn't even that micro intensive but I don't even think you can be managing your chrono, production, and unit placement with sub-100 apm. | ||
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illu
Canada2531 Posts
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Kvz
United States463 Posts
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shammythefox
United Kingdom286 Posts
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