EPT[D] VS Random ? - Page 5
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MstrJinbo
United States1251 Posts
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Deleted User 109835
629 Posts
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On January 19 2012 02:38 kyllinghest wrote: I think most players who plays random do it because they wanna play all races, at least thats what I think. You have fun with your 1/3 of the game, while I enjoy every bit of it. One could argue that you don't enjoy each race to its fullest. However I agree that you enjoy every BitbyBit of it. | ||
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Nubbinz
United States57 Posts
I play random - I cheese / all-in maybe 10-15% of my games. Honestly it's good practice and I catch a lot of FE Protoss or Hatch first players that are being so greedy (without scouting) they deserve it. The only times I may all in is in a ZvZ and TvP. All other match ups are usually longer macro games. My favorite part about being random is beating others in long macro games with all different races. Imagine how good some of us random players would be if we could concentrate on one race, one set of timings, or 3 different match ups instead of 9. Stop the hate! | ||
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kyllinghest
Norway1607 Posts
On January 19 2012 03:23 ZenithM wrote: One could argue that you don't enjoy each race to its fullest. However I agree that you enjoy every BitbyBit of it. Not everyone who plays random cheeses. I guess I could have been "deeper" in one race if I choose, but Im never gonna be higher than masters anyways, and Im satisfied toying around with every aspect of this lovely game when I have the time to play. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On January 19 2012 03:32 Nubbinz wrote: So much generalization here against random players. I play random - I cheese / all-in maybe 10-15% of my games. Honestly it's good practice and I catch a lot of FE Protoss or Hatch first players that are being so greedy (without scouting) they deserve it. The only times I may all in is in a ZvZ and TvP. All other match ups are usually longer macro games. My favorite part about being random is beating others in long macro games with all different races. Imagine how good some of us random players would be if we could concentrate on one race, one set of timings, or 3 different match ups instead of 9. Stop the hate! "Playing long macro games" is also an illusion for random players. You get away with way more risks and greed just because you're random, and you don't even know it. When I play vs random and I don't get cheesed right off the bat (which is rare ;D), I'll use my safest openings and don't take any risk at all, letting you do basically everything you want (Example: I'll 2 gate robo expand versus T, which is very weak economically, so I won't be to all in you with the momentum of a 1 gate expand and I'll always be trying to play catchup in the longer game) Moreover, go ahead, just concentrate on one race and be the target of all the cheese this race suffers. Example: you'll never get cannon rushed in PvP, and it sure is a pain in the ass to deal with on certain maps. I may exagerate a bit, but it's definitely a downside of playing random if you want to improve all your races. People will have extreme behaviors against you. Either they'll play overly safe, fearing the cheesy side hidden in all random players (:D), or they'll all in you in frustration of having to play random. You won't have "standard" games as straight up players have. I think Day9 noticed that (in a tweet), so he just had to play each race alternatively, but straight up, not queuing with random. Not everyone who plays random cheeses. I guess I could have been "deeper" in one race if I choose, but Im never gonna be higher than masters anyways, and Im satisfied toying around with every aspect of this lovely game when I have the time to play. Why not roll a dice and decide your race like that if you don't want to cheese? Achievements (lol)? | ||
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justalex
United States122 Posts
On January 19 2012 02:58 SKTerran.117 wrote: I just leave the game since I don't care about ladder anyway. Random shouldn't be an option in competitive matches imo. Judging from TL and Reddit, neither should terran | ||
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Everhate
United States640 Posts
That sounds rather general, somewhat intentionally, since you can have so many potential matchups. It's been mentioned, for example, that 14/14 as a zerg isn't hugely different than hatch first or some other openings in any matchup. Same holds true for gate first or either gasless rax or early factory for P and T respectively. Now, of course, they're not optimal for each of the 3 matchups you could potentially draw, but the worst case scenario (say, 14/14 zerg against a random terran), doesn't disadvantage you to such a great extent that you can't make up for it pretty quickly. Sure, it would be ideal to open with the perfect opening for the matchup, but it's not likely to be the determining factor in the match. As an arbitrary example, in PvZ most pro protoss players feel that FFE is the proper opening on most maps. That doesn't mean that opening gateway first is an auto-loss, even against a pro level zerg. I tend to trust my lategame against people who have a chosen race, so I suppose that is an influencing factor as well. Someone who plays random encounters so many different matchups, and the average game length itself (whether they play cheesy or standard), should be about the same as any other player who plays a similar way, so their comfort level with the lategame should be about the same. However, the lack of experience of most players with the lategame, even in their 3 matchups, gives me confidence against someone that has a relatively similar level of experience in 9 matchups. You could, of course, argue that they could have a greater understand of the game in general, since they experience whatever matchup you draw from both sides...I'm running myself in loops, but it's fun for me :p | ||
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eighteen8
105 Posts
On January 19 2012 03:38 kyllinghest wrote: Not everyone who plays random cheeses. I guess I could have been "deeper" in one race if I choose, but Im never gonna be higher than masters anyways, and Im satisfied toying around with every aspect of this lovely game when I have the time to play. this  | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
The people that leave are a reason to play random again, so funny. But i generally dice my race, since playing random is annoying because people generally respond wrongly and what to do then, don't abuse on this mistake, or let it slide, either way the game will be boring. But zerg really shouldn't have problems against random, as their strongest defense is simply to plant down a hatch at a nice to defend position. If you have alot of random cheesers around your skill region, just plant the hatch at the strongest position possible, which is close but not the natural expo itself. From there its super easy to defend and a catjump to take the natural savely. The other 2 races though should not wallin ... you can hold 6 pools without a wallin, just train that and you will have no problem against random and basically better for the eco anyway. Since if you wallin you will have a 66% chance of loosing the wallin for nothing. (atleast never put a cybercore as a wallin building against random if you haven't found them so far D: ) | ||
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zEnVy
United States446 Posts
Except on XNC, that's just suicide. | ||
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.Enigma
United Kingdom116 Posts
On January 19 2012 02:58 SKTerran.117 wrote: I just leave the game since I don't care about ladder anyway. Random shouldn't be an option in competitive matches imo. This is worded pretty bluntly but I agree with the last sentence. As someone else mentioned, playing random is not the right way to improve with each race anyway. A randomer rolling Zerg will never have to deal with a FFE in ZvP for instance, despite it being the staple build of the matchup. A game of RvX is skewed completely differently depending on the race being faced, the map and the order the opponent scouts multispawn maps. Its not surprising some people feel annoyed about playing randoms and feel inclined to either all in or play extremely safe, assuming the opponent has a limited gameplan compared to them. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16127 Posts
The only time the random advantage is going to severely punish you with a cheese or all in is if you refuse to scout or if you open with a greedy opening. (15 hatch is greedy, but zergs can get away with it against Terrans but not against Protoss or Zergs.) If you play safe you won't be punished by the random advantage. | ||
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where_
Australia53 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16127 Posts
On January 19 2012 03:47 ZenithM wrote: "Playing long macro games" is also an illusion for random players. You get away with way more risks and greed just because you're random, and you don't even know it. When I play vs random and I don't get cheesed right off the bat (which is rare ;D), I'll use my safest openings and don't take any risk at all, letting you do basically everything you want (Example: I'll 2 gate robo expand versus T, which is very weak economically, so I won't be to all in you with the momentum of a 1 gate expand and I'll always be trying to play catchup in the longer game) Moreover, go ahead, just concentrate on one race and be the target of all the cheese this race suffers. Example: you'll never get cannon rushed in PvP, and it sure is a pain in the ass to deal with on certain maps. I may exagerate a bit, but it's definitely a downside of playing random if you want to improve all your races. People will have extreme behaviors against you. Either they'll play overly safe, fearing the cheesy side hidden in all random players (:D), or they'll all in you in frustration of having to play random. You won't have "standard" games as straight up players have. I think Day9 noticed that (in a tweet), so he just had to play each race alternatively, but straight up, not queuing with random. Why not roll a dice and decide your race like that if you don't want to cheese? Achievements (lol)? False, you are overgeneralizing and I do not appreciate it. I play Random because A: I like every race's playstyle. B: I like the fact that my opponents will not open greedy or with a match up specific cheese like Proxy gates or proxy 2 rax, and C: because I find that I get more enjoyment out of the game by playing Random. I rarely rush, and I play a macro style with Random. My ladder games last an average of over 20 minutes in every match up except for PvP and ZvZ. I utilize the random advantage in order to open with an econ build every game and not have to worry about my opponent going for a super greedy build that I then have to harass or all in against. That's how I play random and I know several other random players that play it the same way. Do not lump us all together with the ones that use the Random advantage to all in with. We do not like it. | ||
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kyllinghest
Norway1607 Posts
On January 19 2012 03:47 ZenithM wrote: Why not roll a dice and decide your race like that if you don't want to cheese? Achievements (lol)? Because all I wanna do is play some games of Starcraft 2, Im no serious gamer, a function which lets me "random" ingame is more than satisfying for me. Also I brought up the whole cheese thing because so many people just labeled random players cheesers, while my impression as a random is the complete opposite. And no, I don't care one bit for achievements. | ||
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Archybaldie
United Kingdom818 Posts
I figured since i dont 4 gate in any of my other matchups and every protoss should know a 4 gate it'd be useful practice lol. Just lost to a random that went 7 pool and massed lings ... i miss clicked and didnt get my wall off when i saw all the lings  | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16127 Posts
On January 19 2012 04:32 .Enigma wrote: This is worded pretty bluntly but I agree with the last sentence. As someone else mentioned, playing random is not the right way to improve with each race anyway. A randomer rolling Zerg will never have to deal with a FFE in ZvP for instance, despite it being the staple build of the matchup. A game of RvX is skewed completely differently depending on the race being faced, the map and the order the opponent scouts multispawn maps. Its not surprising some people feel annoyed about playing randoms and feel inclined to either all in or play extremely safe, assuming the opponent has a limited gameplan compared to them. Do you have any experience actually playing Random or are you just assuming? I face FFE's and hatch firsts all the time when I play Random because there are actually quite a few players on the ladder that will open against Randoms exactly how they would normally or because they sent an earlier scout which is another option. Just yesterday I played a ZvZ in which I did a 13 hatch/pool against a guy that did a 15 hatch and the game progressed immediately into the midgame with only minor Zergling scuffles. He did it blindly btw, and if I had been the kind of random player that cheesed every game I would have had an instant win instead he beat me straight up in a macro game after he did a risky double expand behind muta harass that I didn't punish enough. More often my games play out exactly like standard match ups than not. Your statements are based on either extremely limited experience or bias. Neither of which have any application to my own ladder experience. Do not assume things about playing Random or Random players if you do not want to be criticized for it. | ||
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TheWalls
United States15 Posts
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Chubz
France119 Posts
As 99% Random players only play Random because it gives them a minor advantage when doing their shitty 1base all-in I'll also do one. Depending on the map it will be either 9/9 Proxy Gates (if a 2player map or XelNaga/Metalopolis) or else a 20probe 4gate. love u | ||
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