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[G] PvT - Got Balls? 15 Nex into speed prism colo

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6565 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-15 05:03:02
December 31 2011 05:51 GMT
#1
sometimes you just gotta let'em know


[image loading]
where the fuck are we going

Vods + Intro
+ Show Spoiler +

Before I begin, I'd like to give a shoutout to CookieMakerTV and duckvielleLOL for putting together these wonderful casts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA5oAzzyKGY


follow him on twitter https://twitter.com/#!/DUCKVILLELOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTJMxgSLbI8&feature=player_embedded


follow him on twitter http://twitter.com/#!/CookieMakerTV


I'm giving you a build, but you are also essentially inserting colo drops in for whatever your typical opening/style is for the mid game. Instead of rushing to colo/range, getting 2 forges really quickly, rushing ht or dt, you are getting fast colossus and wp speed! So long as you can micro your way out of the 4 rax gasless cc first or 1 rax expo marine push, you shouldn't have a problem getting here. Once he has seen your colo, you have complete map control. You can take your 3rd at will. You don't have to worry about drops, as he's going to be frantically scrambling around just to spread himself so that he doesn't take a too much damage from your drop. Plus you're in his base, killing his doods. If he lifts up for a drop, you should be able to see it with an obs or with your prism.

Alternatively, if you want more of a general guide to the nexus first opener, consult this thread:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=307426


This section is about wp/colo micro. If you know how it works already, feel free to skip this
+ Show Spoiler +
To unload the colossus, hit d and click on the prism as it's moving. Don't click on the ground and wait for it to unload there, as this will force it to come to a stop and then unload. By clicking on the prism, it drops it mid flight. As soon as you drop it, pull the prism back in the opposite direction. This will make it so you don't decelerate. If the colo is underfire, let it take a shot and right click on the colo with your prism as you're pulling it back. Practice this a bunch. Since marauders have a projectile, you can limit the amount of damage you take from them by loading up while the concussive grenade is on the way. This will take some time getting used to, especially in conjunction with doing everything else you have to do, as this style sets itself up wonderfully for macro games.




I recommend you only go through with the colo drops under 2 conditions:
    1. antigua/shakuras/entolmbed. why? easier to hold off 2 base pokes with sentries, of course!
    2. you scout/assume (though you're playing against terran, and you can't :p) cc first or 1 rax cc

So go scout. You can either scout on nexus like this:
    9 Pylon
    15 Nexus (scout!)

Or you can scout on pylon like so:
    9 Pylon (scout!)
    16 Nexus

Either way, you may or may not get the information you need. Always sac the probe unless there's no way you can possibly get the scout. Example:
[image loading]
you'll never know how much worry you've saved me, Proberto

If you're interested, continue reading. If you are scared, hit backspace on your keyboard and pretend you never saw this.


The build
+ Show Spoiler +
    9 Pylon (cb 11 + cb 12.75 or w/e)
    15 Nexus
    16 Gateway (15 if you want to be safer, I suppose)
    17 Pylon (some will tell you gas first; I wouldn't lie to you like that)
    18 Gas (1st)

Scout your nat with a probe after pylon or after gas to check for bunker(s). You should also check for proxy raxes if you're gosux2
    20 Core

maintain probe production as best you can while CB'ing 2 zealots back to back and then stalkers continuously. CB WG when you have extra available. Don't use it on probes, but don't stockpile it.

Send your 2 zealots towards the enemy base so that they will hit the Terran as the 1st stalker meets up. You can pick off a marine or 2 and/or scvs if they didn't make a bunker. This is essentially a bunker check. If they have a bunker, just retreat for free.
    32 Pylon (1 stalker training)


Add 2 gases (count'em, TWO) after you can ensure you can start your 3rd stalker as soon as your 2nd is finished. This will typically be at 36 food, if you haven't lost any zealots/stalkers (and you shouldn't have).
    ~42 Robo (2 stalkers out, 3rd about to pop). Next, add 2 gates and your 4th gas. The 4th gas at this timing is very important. You need to poop out at least 2 sentries to ff the big ramp in case you're getting hit with any 2 base poke.

    @ 100% Robo, obs + Robotics Support Bay
    @ 100% obs, warp prism
    @ 100% Robotics Support bay, WP speed (hotkey = G) and your first colossus


The timings work out pretty wonderfully; CB'd obs and WP will finish with RSB, and your first colo and WP speed will finish at the same time as well.

Here you need to mind your gas. You want to squeeze out as many sentries before you begin your colo but still ensure you have 300 gas when your RSB finishes. I can typically get out 3 with the above gas timing, and you're going to need at least 2 to ff the ramp entirely.

When my first colo is on the way, I like to start 2 forges and my council. I'm not sure if this is safe. You might want to play around with this and try getting 2 gates instead and see what works for you.

1st colo should pop out around 9:40.
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
that's a pretty fat bar, imo


Since we've already invested in colossus tech, we might as well start a 2nd one as well as range when the first colo is done. range will significantly improve the deadliness of the colossus in drops, as well.

When you drop your colo for the first time and they freak the fuck out, take your 3rd immediately.

Here's a skeleton of the build up to and including finishing colossus:
http://drop.sc/81790


A wild colossus appears
+ Show Spoiler +
On your first drop, assuming they are none the wiser, you should drop it on the closest mineral patch to the natural, as their first instinct will be to maynard all of the scvs right through it. Since you don't have range yet, doing a safe drop on the outer edge will not be as effective. Try to focus it on the biggest clumps of scvs.

The success of the first drop can be measured like so:
    1. SCV kills (obv)
    2. Unit kills
    3. How much time you keep x scvs off of the line
    4. Removal of units from the map


The third and fourth won't appear on your kill count, but they are very important. They are muling at their nat, and they also have to send every single scv from their main to mine there as well. If they are dealing with a flying colossus, they will be less likely to put on aggression with a drop.

If they are attacking you at this time, you can get some ridiculous results. Here's a gem:
[image loading]


There really shouldn't be any vikings out on the field yet, so feel free to fly on over the natural and see what you can't kill there:
[image loading]

You'll never kill as many on this run, but you will damage a lot of units desperately trying to go after your WP. Here we must micro as best we can to make sure both make it out alive. Typically, vikings will be on the way at this point.

Regardless, congratulations! Map control is now yours and your 3rd will go uncontested 99% of the time. In the meantime, you've got two forges and a council working on charge. While we're kind of stuck on colossus tech for the next few minutes, we are transitioning into dual tech on 3 bases and should have a great probe lead.


Following up
+ Show Spoiler +
All of the towers on the map are now yours if you choose. The speed prism/colo can make sure they can never hold a tower. So if you can't harass because they are placing their vikings well, at least you have that :p

If they have a third when your colossus strikes, you pretty much win, as there is no way they can keep all three mineral lines secure at all times. Take your 3rd ASAP, usually when they first react to the drop and have to pull everything on the map back. Alternatively, if you see with your obs they don't have units on the map, take it as your WP is on its way over there. In the build I mentioned you should be adding forges and a twilight when your drop is still in its infancy. Make sure you do this, or else this style will feel very all-in and 2-basey.

Dual upgrades complement the ranged colo and charge, so it is an extremely smooth transition. With whatever extra gas you have after upgrades and twilight researches, work on your HT tech, adding only as many stalkers as you need to fend off vikings from your colossus. It's tempting to go over 4-5 colossus, but just know that this will take away from your army strength in the long run; 2 more colossus means 6 less stalkers to guard your colossus or 6 less zealots to envelop a bio concave. As they are taking their 3rd, feel free to take a 4th.

After the first drop, you're going to have to be very careful with your WP, as they will be wise to your ways and have 1-2 vikings patrolling where it would fly. This essentially shuts it down. However, a 3 base terran will always have holes somewhere. Find them, and put a colossus there:

[image loading]
here's a poke

[image loading]
there's a poke
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
sup bitch


[image loading]
everywhere a poke


Caveats
+ Show Spoiler +
Your game will go only as well as your first poke. If you don't manage to pick off a whole lot of scvs, at least force them to pull off the lines as often as possible, and stim as much as possible. Marines with stim are not faster than a speed WP! Abuse the shit out of this. When vikings come out, you must be very conservative. Don't throw a way a good bit of harass by flying into two vikings patrolling.

Sometimes, you will do a good bit of damage but it will not completely seal the deal.
Sometimes, you will find yourself facing a push like this off of two bases:

[image loading]
fucking groupies

This kind of composition will have a lot of power sieged up by your natural, but significantly less running in between bases trying to kill a WP it can't hope to catch.

Don't be afraid to use your WP colo as part of your standing army if the push comes too soon. Even so, sometimes this happens:
[image loading]
and we lose our natural

But don't fret! If there's anything that can get a protoss player back in the game, it's dts a winged colossus

[image loading]
sry didn't know u weren't home

Nothing to harass? Let Colin get in on the action!
[image loading]
wait p lost nat? fukcin protos imbal


Moving forward
+ Show Spoiler +
This style can be as effective as its bearer is talented. I hope to see good players utilize this kind of play. The skill cap on it is absolutely limitless. Imagine two of these fuckers on the map and a 400 apm korean manning the controls. Three??? MADNESS

I've seen herO do something similar why the fuck do you think I tried it so many times on his stream, but never have I seen it in tournament play

TLO did something like this back in the beta off of one base, but I think it is pretty safe against cc first or 1 rax fe. I wouldn't try it against anything else, as 2/1 tank pushes smash it pretty hard, as do many 1/1/1 variants off of 1 base. If you already opened 15 nex and scout something different, you're going to want to play a lot safer.

That being said, I encourage everyone to experiment with 15 nexus builds on big maps, as they will force you to improve your economy management and army control, as a lot of terrans will opt for bio all-ins or builds involving hellion drops which can't be stopped with 15 nexus, but require intelligent probe cuts and crisp transition timings.


Replays
+ Show Spoiler +
Just mine for now. Some of them are old so they might have different gas/transition/3rd timings. Here are several:

http://drop.sc/130143
http://drop.sc/80818
http://drop.sc/80819
http://drop.sc/80820
http://drop.sc/81781

against marine/tank/banshee/raven off of 2 bases:
http://drop.sc/81785

here's one not vs 1 rax fe or cc first, but fuck it
http://drop.sc/81776

here, we get there eventually, but play safer in the meantime
http://drop.sc/81779

and sometimes we think we're playing against zerg
http://drop.sc/81782

and here's the skeleton of the build if you missed it above:
http://drop.sc/81790

here's a replay major posted that features speed wp immortal harass. really good for sniping those add-ons!
http://drop.sc/82020

here are a few games where I play safer out of 15 nex because of 1 base play:

http://drop.sc/82410
http://drop.sc/82409
http://drop.sc/82411

too lazy to watch replays? check out this cast done by our friend CookieMakerTV





en re NEXsickness
+ Show Spoiler +
our bud duckville has posted some vods on youtube of NEXsickness using colo drops successfully. Check out this vod featuring the wp colo battling a 1;1;1 build:


Farewell!
+ Show Spoiler +
A happy new year to all you guys. Thanks for reading, and good luck with the style!

Shout out to drop.sc for being the only upload site never to let me down!

Shout out to artosis, though he hasn't replied to my PM about this style from yesterday TT

And of course, a shoutout to CookieMakerTV for putting together a great cast to show the build. You can find his casts here: http://www.youtube.com/user/CookieMakerTV/videos

aLeJ
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
aviator116
Profile Joined November 2011
United States820 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-31 06:26:35
December 31 2011 05:57 GMT
#2
i think there was a Day9 daily where he showed Hero using a relatively similar build against a 14cc (or a 1rax FE i forget..)
great writeup, i'll definitely try it out
Bogus ST_Life IMMVP
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6565 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-31 06:00:11
December 31 2011 06:00 GMT
#3
On December 31 2011 14:57 aviator116 wrote:
i think there was a Day9 daily where he showed Hero using a relatively similar build against a 14cc
great writeup, i'll definitely try it out

link!!! was it on antigua where he spawned bot right vs top right?
that game was beautiful
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
Selendis
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia509 Posts
December 31 2011 06:02 GMT
#4
I love it, but alas I lack the balls atm, diamond terrancs are giving me nightmares as it is without doing wacky bo's.
Probes are sooo OP
Captain Peabody
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3110 Posts
December 31 2011 06:04 GMT
#5
I have nowhere near enough skill to pull this off, but I still salute this build and your effort in putting it together.

Just from reading this description, it seems quite viable, and I look forward to seeing it and similar strategies in pro-games.

Rock on, my Protoss brethren! Pretend you've got Reavers!
Dies Irae venit. youtube.com/SnobbinsFilms
Pieismyign
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States176 Posts
December 31 2011 06:07 GMT
#6
faced warp prism collosus against my 1 rax fe into 4 rax late stim. i got raped. ><
GhostKorean
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States2330 Posts
December 31 2011 06:08 GMT
#7
Have you tried elevatoring/warping in sentries with this drop before?
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6565 Posts
December 31 2011 06:10 GMT
#8
On December 31 2011 15:08 GhostKorean wrote:
Have you tried elevatoring/warping in sentries with this drop before?

hmm trapping the scvs in the base some how on the first drop before vikings are out would be retardedly strong.. don't know how i'd get there, though. if a colossus took 3/4 of a WP, they'd be even more imba :D
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
GhostKorean
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States2330 Posts
December 31 2011 06:14 GMT
#9
Try dropping sentries in first discreetly and then reveal the collosus. That's the best I can think of...

or man up and build two warp prisms :D
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6565 Posts
December 31 2011 06:15 GMT
#10
On December 31 2011 15:14 GhostKorean wrote:
Try dropping sentries in first discreetly and then reveal the collosus. That's the best I can think of...

or man up and build two warp prisms :D

haha true. you could actually do that by skipping the obs. you'd still have 2 WP's when the colossus was done. rofl that'd be fucking ridiculous. who cares if the forges/twilight are delayed? for that shit i can wait :D
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
unit
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States2621 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-31 06:21:23
December 31 2011 06:18 GMT
#11
i think i found a way to play PvT when i feel like just having fun :D this feels like a ballsy badass strategy that is actually quite awesome & viable & not allin

edit: i think the double prism idea would be badass also i feel as though if you got the timings down you could add a 3rd and ton of gates (12-16 total) and just harass the shit out of him with colo drops, warpins and main army movements im going to have a TON of fun with this
jarhead271
Profile Joined October 2010
United States160 Posts
December 31 2011 06:22 GMT
#12
Alejandrisha, you are awesome. I love your guides. Although I must say, you seem a bit more saucy here tonight. You been drinkin' brah?

Maybe I just get that vibe cuz I'm on the sauce myselft.

Anyway... colo drops are definitely balls-to-the-wall.... I think I have the balls to try it out right now actually. And Hero's micro in that Antiga game was so sick!!!!
Trusty
Profile Joined July 2010
New Zealand520 Posts
December 31 2011 06:24 GMT
#13
always appreciate your guides. very well done.

using your 11 3gate for a while now, to great success.
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6565 Posts
December 31 2011 06:27 GMT
#14
On December 31 2011 15:18 unit wrote:
i think i found a way to play PvT when i feel like just having fun :D this feels like a ballsy badass strategy that is actually quite awesome & viable & not allin

edit: i think the double prism idea would be badass also i feel as though if you got the timings down you could add a 3rd and ton of gates (12-16 total) and just harass the shit out of him with colo drops, warpins and main army movements im going to have a TON of fun with this

there's nothing more fun that watching terran stim a group of marines to chase your speed prism. and then when they outpace the rest of the pack, you unload the colo and just kill them HAHAHAHAHA MWAHHAHAHAHAHA

O_O
sorry
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6565 Posts
December 31 2011 06:29 GMT
#15
@jarhead271
@Trusty

to both of ya
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
aviator116
Profile Joined November 2011
United States820 Posts
December 31 2011 06:34 GMT
#16
On December 31 2011 15:00 Alejandrisha wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 31 2011 14:57 aviator116 wrote:
i think there was a Day9 daily where he showed Hero using a relatively similar build against a 14cc
great writeup, i'll definitely try it out

link!!! was it on antigua where he spawned bot right vs top right?
that game was beautiful

http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-383-p3-liquidhero-s-nutty-pvt-style-5803444

its against thebest, so not the same game and its against a 1rax FE into heavy marine pressure
Bogus ST_Life IMMVP
Seiferz
Profile Joined May 2011
United States640 Posts
December 31 2011 06:34 GMT
#17
lol i feel like you're having a lot of fun with this style!

great write up
CaptainHaz
Profile Joined December 2010
United States240 Posts
December 31 2011 06:34 GMT
#18
You must have a specially fitted pair of pants to store balls of such magnitude.

Thanks again for the guide. I'm going to try this out of a 1 gate expand, since I lack the testicular fortitude for a 15 nexus build.

I kind of like this but the third timing seems really greedy, I'm guessing it relies on the Terran chilling at home to defend as opposed to trying to a move for the win.
All of us warned you of the big white face.
unit
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States2621 Posts
December 31 2011 06:36 GMT
#19
On December 31 2011 15:27 Alejandrisha wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 31 2011 15:18 unit wrote:
i think i found a way to play PvT when i feel like just having fun :D this feels like a ballsy badass strategy that is actually quite awesome & viable & not allin

edit: i think the double prism idea would be badass also i feel as though if you got the timings down you could add a 3rd and ton of gates (12-16 total) and just harass the shit out of him with colo drops, warpins and main army movements im going to have a TON of fun with this

there's nothing more fun that watching terran stim a group of marines to chase your speed prism. and then when they outpace the rest of the pack, you unload the colo and just kill them HAHAHAHAHA MWAHHAHAHAHAHA

O_O
sorry


sir, that sounds like a reaver....OMFG YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IM DOING THIS

(favorite PvT strategy in bw was reaver drops )
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6565 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-31 06:37:24
December 31 2011 06:37 GMT
#20
On December 31 2011 15:36 unit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 31 2011 15:27 Alejandrisha wrote:
On December 31 2011 15:18 unit wrote:
i think i found a way to play PvT when i feel like just having fun :D this feels like a ballsy badass strategy that is actually quite awesome & viable & not allin

edit: i think the double prism idea would be badass also i feel as though if you got the timings down you could add a 3rd and ton of gates (12-16 total) and just harass the shit out of him with colo drops, warpins and main army movements im going to have a TON of fun with this

there's nothing more fun that watching terran stim a group of marines to chase your speed prism. and then when they outpace the rest of the pack, you unload the colo and just kill them HAHAHAHAHA MWAHHAHAHAHAHA

O_O
sorry


sir, that sounds like a reaver....OMFG YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IM DOING THIS

(favorite ONLY PvT strategy in bw was reaver drops )


there you go
get rich or die mining
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