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sometimes you just gotta let'em know
where the fuck are we going
Vods + Intro + Show Spoiler +Before I begin, I'd like to give a shoutout to CookieMakerTV and duckvielleLOL for putting together these wonderful casts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pA5oAzzyKGY follow him on twitter https://twitter.com/#!/DUCKVILLELOLhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTJMxgSLbI8&feature=player_embedded follow him on twitter http://twitter.com/#!/CookieMakerTVI'm giving you a build, but you are also essentially inserting colo drops in for whatever your typical opening/style is for the mid game. Instead of rushing to colo/range, getting 2 forges really quickly, rushing ht or dt, you are getting fast colossus and wp speed! So long as you can micro your way out of the 4 rax gasless cc first or 1 rax expo marine push, you shouldn't have a problem getting here. Once he has seen your colo, you have complete map control. You can take your 3rd at will. You don't have to worry about drops, as he's going to be frantically scrambling around just to spread himself so that he doesn't take a too much damage from your drop. Plus you're in his base, killing his doods. If he lifts up for a drop, you should be able to see it with an obs or with your prism. Alternatively, if you want more of a general guide to the nexus first opener, consult this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=307426This section is about wp/colo micro. If you know how it works already, feel free to skip this+ Show Spoiler +To unload the colossus, hit d and click on the prism as it's moving. Don't click on the ground and wait for it to unload there, as this will force it to come to a stop and then unload. By clicking on the prism, it drops it mid flight. As soon as you drop it, pull the prism back in the opposite direction. This will make it so you don't decelerate. If the colo is underfire, let it take a shot and right click on the colo with your prism as you're pulling it back. Practice this a bunch. Since marauders have a projectile, you can limit the amount of damage you take from them by loading up while the concussive grenade is on the way. This will take some time getting used to, especially in conjunction with doing everything else you have to do, as this style sets itself up wonderfully for macro games. I recommend you only go through with the colo drops under 2 conditions: 1. antigua/shakuras/entolmbed. why? easier to hold off 2 base pokes with sentries, of course! 2. you scout/assume (though you're playing against terran, and you can't :p) cc first or 1 rax cc
So go scout. You can either scout on nexus like this: 9 Pylon 15 Nexus (scout!)
Or you can scout on pylon like so: 9 Pylon (scout!) 16 Nexus
Either way, you may or may not get the information you need. Always sac the probe unless there's no way you can possibly get the scout. Example: you'll never know how much worry you've saved me, ProbertoIf you're interested, continue reading. If you are scared, hit backspace on your keyboard and pretend you never saw this.
The build + Show Spoiler +9 Pylon (cb 11 + cb 12.75 or w/e) 15 Nexus 16 Gateway (15 if you want to be safer, I suppose) 17 Pylon (some will tell you gas first; I wouldn't lie to you like that) 18 Gas (1st)
Scout your nat with a probe after pylon or after gas to check for bunker(s). You should also check for proxy raxes if you're gosux2 maintain probe production as best you can while CB'ing 2 zealots back to back and then stalkers continuously. CB WG when you have extra available. Don't use it on probes, but don't stockpile it. Send your 2 zealots towards the enemy base so that they will hit the Terran as the 1st stalker meets up. You can pick off a marine or 2 and/or scvs if they didn't make a bunker. This is essentially a bunker check. If they have a bunker, just retreat for free. 32 Pylon (1 stalker training) Add 2 gases (count'em, TWO) after you can ensure you can start your 3rd stalker as soon as your 2nd is finished. This will typically be at 36 food, if you haven't lost any zealots/stalkers (and you shouldn't have). ~42 Robo (2 stalkers out, 3rd about to pop). Next, add 2 gates and your 4th gas. The 4th gas at this timing is very important. You need to poop out at least 2 sentries to ff the big ramp in case you're getting hit with any 2 base poke.
@ 100% Robo, obs + Robotics Support Bay @ 100% obs, warp prism @ 100% Robotics Support bay, WP speed (hotkey = G) and your first colossus The timings work out pretty wonderfully; CB'd obs and WP will finish with RSB, and your first colo and WP speed will finish at the same time as well. Here you need to mind your gas. You want to squeeze out as many sentries before you begin your colo but still ensure you have 300 gas when your RSB finishes. I can typically get out 3 with the above gas timing, and you're going to need at least 2 to ff the ramp entirely. When my first colo is on the way, I like to start 2 forges and my council. I'm not sure if this is safe. You might want to play around with this and try getting 2 gates instead and see what works for you. 1st colo should pop out around 9:40. + Show Spoiler +that's a pretty fat bar, imo Since we've already invested in colossus tech, we might as well start a 2nd one as well as range when the first colo is done. range will significantly improve the deadliness of the colossus in drops, as well. When you drop your colo for the first time and they freak the fuck out, take your 3rd immediately. Here's a skeleton of the build up to and including finishing colossus: http://drop.sc/81790
A wild colossus appears + Show Spoiler +On your first drop, assuming they are none the wiser, you should drop it on the closest mineral patch to the natural, as their first instinct will be to maynard all of the scvs right through it. Since you don't have range yet, doing a safe drop on the outer edge will not be as effective. Try to focus it on the biggest clumps of scvs. The success of the first drop can be measured like so: 1. SCV kills (obv) 2. Unit kills 3. How much time you keep x scvs off of the line 4. Removal of units from the map The third and fourth won't appear on your kill count, but they are very important. They are muling at their nat, and they also have to send every single scv from their main to mine there as well. If they are dealing with a flying colossus, they will be less likely to put on aggression with a drop. If they are attacking you at this time, you can get some ridiculous results. Here's a gem: There really shouldn't be any vikings out on the field yet, so feel free to fly on over the natural and see what you can't kill there: You'll never kill as many on this run, but you will damage a lot of units desperately trying to go after your WP. Here we must micro as best we can to make sure both make it out alive. Typically, vikings will be on the way at this point. Regardless, congratulations! Map control is now yours and your 3rd will go uncontested 99% of the time. In the meantime, you've got two forges and a council working on charge. While we're kind of stuck on colossus tech for the next few minutes, we are transitioning into dual tech on 3 bases and should have a great probe lead.
Following up + Show Spoiler +All of the towers on the map are now yours if you choose. The speed prism/colo can make sure they can never hold a tower. So if you can't harass because they are placing their vikings well, at least you have that :p If they have a third when your colossus strikes, you pretty much win, as there is no way they can keep all three mineral lines secure at all times. Take your 3rd ASAP, usually when they first react to the drop and have to pull everything on the map back. Alternatively, if you see with your obs they don't have units on the map, take it as your WP is on its way over there. In the build I mentioned you should be adding forges and a twilight when your drop is still in its infancy. Make sure you do this, or else this style will feel very all-in and 2-basey. Dual upgrades complement the ranged colo and charge, so it is an extremely smooth transition. With whatever extra gas you have after upgrades and twilight researches, work on your HT tech, adding only as many stalkers as you need to fend off vikings from your colossus. It's tempting to go over 4-5 colossus, but just know that this will take away from your army strength in the long run; 2 more colossus means 6 less stalkers to guard your colossus or 6 less zealots to envelop a bio concave. As they are taking their 3rd, feel free to take a 4th. After the first drop, you're going to have to be very careful with your WP, as they will be wise to your ways and have 1-2 vikings patrolling where it would fly. This essentially shuts it down. However, a 3 base terran will always have holes somewhere. Find them, and put a colossus there: here's a pokethere's a poke+ Show Spoiler +sup bitch everywhere a poke
Caveats + Show Spoiler +Your game will go only as well as your first poke. If you don't manage to pick off a whole lot of scvs, at least force them to pull off the lines as often as possible, and stim as much as possible. Marines with stim are not faster than a speed WP! Abuse the shit out of this. When vikings come out, you must be very conservative. Don't throw a way a good bit of harass by flying into two vikings patrolling. Sometimes, you will do a good bit of damage but it will not completely seal the deal. Sometimes, you will find yourself facing a push like this off of two bases: fucking groupiesThis kind of composition will have a lot of power sieged up by your natural, but significantly less running in between bases trying to kill a WP it can't hope to catch. Don't be afraid to use your WP colo as part of your standing army if the push comes too soon. Even so, sometimes this happens: and we lose our naturalBut don't fret! If there's anything that can get a protoss player back in the game, it's dts a winged colossus sry didn't know u weren't homeNothing to harass? Let Colin get in on the action! wait p lost nat? fukcin protos imbal
Moving forward + Show Spoiler +This style can be as effective as its bearer is talented. I hope to see good players utilize this kind of play. The skill cap on it is absolutely limitless. Imagine two of these fuckers on the map and a 400 apm korean manning the controls. Three??? MADNESS I've seen herO do something similar why the fuck do you think I tried it so many times on his stream, but never have I seen it in tournament play TLO did something like this back in the beta off of one base, but I think it is pretty safe against cc first or 1 rax fe. I wouldn't try it against anything else, as 2/1 tank pushes smash it pretty hard, as do many 1/1/1 variants off of 1 base. If you already opened 15 nex and scout something different, you're going to want to play a lot safer. That being said, I encourage everyone to experiment with 15 nexus builds on big maps, as they will force you to improve your economy management and army control, as a lot of terrans will opt for bio all-ins or builds involving hellion drops which can 't be stopped with 15 nexus, but require intelligent probe cuts and crisp transition timings.
Replays + Show Spoiler +
en re NEXsickness + Show Spoiler +our bud duckville has posted some vods on youtube of NEXsickness using colo drops successfully. Check out this vod featuring the wp colo battling a 1;1;1 build:
Farewell! + Show Spoiler +A happy new year to all you guys. Thanks for reading, and good luck with the style! Shout out to drop.sc for being the only upload site never to let me down! Shout out to artosis, though he hasn't replied to my PM about this style from yesterday TT And of course, a shoutout to CookieMakerTV for putting together a great cast to show the build. You can find his casts here: http://www.youtube.com/user/CookieMakerTV/videos aLeJ
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i think there was a Day9 daily where he showed Hero using a relatively similar build against a 14cc (or a 1rax FE i forget..) great writeup, i'll definitely try it out
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On December 31 2011 14:57 aviator116 wrote:i think there was a Day9 daily where he showed Hero using a relatively similar build against a 14cc great writeup, i'll definitely try it out link!!! was it on antigua where he spawned bot right vs top right? that game was beautiful
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I love it, but alas I lack the balls atm, diamond terrancs are giving me nightmares as it is without doing wacky bo's.
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I have nowhere near enough skill to pull this off, but I still salute this build and your effort in putting it together.
Just from reading this description, it seems quite viable, and I look forward to seeing it and similar strategies in pro-games.
Rock on, my Protoss brethren! Pretend you've got Reavers!
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faced warp prism collosus against my 1 rax fe into 4 rax late stim. i got raped. ><
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Have you tried elevatoring/warping in sentries with this drop before?
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On December 31 2011 15:08 GhostKorean wrote: Have you tried elevatoring/warping in sentries with this drop before? hmm trapping the scvs in the base some how on the first drop before vikings are out would be retardedly strong.. don't know how i'd get there, though. if a colossus took 3/4 of a WP, they'd be even more imba :D
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Try dropping sentries in first discreetly and then reveal the collosus. That's the best I can think of...
or man up and build two warp prisms :D
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On December 31 2011 15:14 GhostKorean wrote: Try dropping sentries in first discreetly and then reveal the collosus. That's the best I can think of...
or man up and build two warp prisms :D haha true. you could actually do that by skipping the obs. you'd still have 2 WP's when the colossus was done. rofl that'd be fucking ridiculous. who cares if the forges/twilight are delayed? for that shit i can wait :D
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i think i found a way to play PvT when i feel like just having fun :D this feels like a ballsy badass strategy that is actually quite awesome & viable & not allin
edit: i think the double prism idea would be badass also i feel as though if you got the timings down you could add a 3rd and ton of gates (12-16 total) and just harass the shit out of him with colo drops, warpins and main army movements im going to have a TON of fun with this
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Alejandrisha, you are awesome. I love your guides. Although I must say, you seem a bit more saucy here tonight. You been drinkin' brah?
Maybe I just get that vibe cuz I'm on the sauce myselft.
Anyway... colo drops are definitely balls-to-the-wall.... I think I have the balls to try it out right now actually. And Hero's micro in that Antiga game was so sick!!!!
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always appreciate your guides. very well done.
using your 11 3gate for a while now, to great success.
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On December 31 2011 15:18 unit wrote:i think i found a way to play PvT when i feel like just having fun :D this feels like a ballsy badass strategy that is actually quite awesome & viable & not allin edit: i think the double prism idea would be badass also i feel as though if you got the timings down you could add a 3rd and ton of gates (12-16 total) and just harass the shit out of him with colo drops, warpins and main army movements im going to have a TON of fun with this there's nothing more fun that watching terran stim a group of marines to chase your speed prism. and then when they outpace the rest of the pack, you unload the colo and just kill them HAHAHAHAHA MWAHHAHAHAHAHA
O_O sorry
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@jarhead271 @Trusty
to both of ya
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On December 31 2011 15:00 Alejandrisha wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2011 14:57 aviator116 wrote:i think there was a Day9 daily where he showed Hero using a relatively similar build against a 14cc great writeup, i'll definitely try it out link!!! was it on antigua where he spawned bot right vs top right? that game was beautiful http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-383-p3-liquidhero-s-nutty-pvt-style-5803444
its against thebest, so not the same game and its against a 1rax FE into heavy marine pressure
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lol i feel like you're having a lot of fun with this style!
great write up
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You must have a specially fitted pair of pants to store balls of such magnitude.
Thanks again for the guide. I'm going to try this out of a 1 gate expand, since I lack the testicular fortitude for a 15 nexus build.
I kind of like this but the third timing seems really greedy, I'm guessing it relies on the Terran chilling at home to defend as opposed to trying to a move for the win.
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On December 31 2011 15:27 Alejandrisha wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2011 15:18 unit wrote:i think i found a way to play PvT when i feel like just having fun :D this feels like a ballsy badass strategy that is actually quite awesome & viable & not allin edit: i think the double prism idea would be badass also i feel as though if you got the timings down you could add a 3rd and ton of gates (12-16 total) and just harass the shit out of him with colo drops, warpins and main army movements im going to have a TON of fun with this there's nothing more fun that watching terran stim a group of marines to chase your speed prism. and then when they outpace the rest of the pack, you unload the colo and just kill them HAHAHAHAHA MWAHHAHAHAHAHA O_O sorry
sir, that sounds like a reaver....OMFG YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IM DOING THIS
(favorite PvT strategy in bw was reaver drops )
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On December 31 2011 15:36 unit wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2011 15:27 Alejandrisha wrote:On December 31 2011 15:18 unit wrote:i think i found a way to play PvT when i feel like just having fun :D this feels like a ballsy badass strategy that is actually quite awesome & viable & not allin edit: i think the double prism idea would be badass also i feel as though if you got the timings down you could add a 3rd and ton of gates (12-16 total) and just harass the shit out of him with colo drops, warpins and main army movements im going to have a TON of fun with this there's nothing more fun that watching terran stim a group of marines to chase your speed prism. and then when they outpace the rest of the pack, you unload the colo and just kill them HAHAHAHAHA MWAHHAHAHAHAHA O_O sorry sir, that sounds like a reaver....OMFG YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IM DOING THIS ( favorite ONLY PvT strategy in bw was reaver drops )
there you go
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awesome.... idk if i can pull this off without a lot of practice but the toss gets little love for the insanity like this that we attempt.... thanks for giving us a crazy thing to try. Well done!!
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On December 31 2011 15:37 Alejandrisha wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2011 15:36 unit wrote:On December 31 2011 15:27 Alejandrisha wrote:On December 31 2011 15:18 unit wrote:i think i found a way to play PvT when i feel like just having fun :D this feels like a ballsy badass strategy that is actually quite awesome & viable & not allin edit: i think the double prism idea would be badass also i feel as though if you got the timings down you could add a 3rd and ton of gates (12-16 total) and just harass the shit out of him with colo drops, warpins and main army movements im going to have a TON of fun with this there's nothing more fun that watching terran stim a group of marines to chase your speed prism. and then when they outpace the rest of the pack, you unload the colo and just kill them HAHAHAHAHA MWAHHAHAHAHAHA O_O sorry sir, that sounds like a reaver....OMFG YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IM DOING THIS ( favorite ONLY PvT strategy in bw was reaver drops ) there you go thank you for the fix, really said a lot about how great reavers were :D
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Hah, this is so cute, good if you have the multi-tasking ability to execute it. ;D
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I was about to go to bed, then I watched this replay and HAD to log back in to say this: "Holy crap your prism colossus micro is absolutely unreal" Colossus was a killing machine! I almost had a heart attack watching, well I won't give details for those who want to see it for themselves but let's just say there were many close calls and I can't believe how well you kept dodging bullets. Well done and Happy New Year!
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I feel its too riscky in a laddergame to go nexus first in pvt. if the terran scout that he'll 3rax me
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As a Terran, I think this is just too risky for Protoss. Whenever I see a Nexus first (which isn't very often), I'll just 3-rax and autowin. Theres no way to stop a well-executed 3-rax with Nexus first, especially while teching, period. That said, maybe this could work in tournaments where maps are bigger, like on that frozen map with front door destructible rocks and an expansion inside your base.
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On December 31 2011 16:31 kofman wrote: As a Terran, I think this is just too risky for Protoss. Whenever I see a Nexus first (which isn't very often), I'll just 3-rax and autowin. Theres no way to stop a well-executed 3-rax with Nexus first, especially while teching, period. That said, maybe this could work in tournaments where maps are bigger, like on that frozen map with front door destructible rocks and an expansion inside your base. the only time i've lost to a 3 rax with 15 nex was vs demuslim. and he put a reactor on his first rax to trick me then floated 2 rax from his main to the low ground and rushed me with all his scvs and marines from close air on shattered temple. i almost held it, but then he had 6 more marines because of mule xD every other 3 rax has failed.
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On December 31 2011 16:47 Alejandrisha wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2011 16:31 kofman wrote: As a Terran, I think this is just too risky for Protoss. Whenever I see a Nexus first (which isn't very often), I'll just 3-rax and autowin. Theres no way to stop a well-executed 3-rax with Nexus first, especially while teching, period. That said, maybe this could work in tournaments where maps are bigger, like on that frozen map with front door destructible rocks and an expansion inside your base. the only time i've lost to a 3 rax with 15 nex was vs demuslim. and he put a reactor on his first rax to trick me then floated 2 rax from his main to the low ground and rushed me with all his scvs and marines from close air on shattered temple. i almost held it, but then he had 6 more marines because of mule xD every other 3 rax has failed. I'm not referring to that kind of 3-rax, I'm talking about the 2 tech 1 reactor 3-rax where you hit a timing with stim and concusive shells. In my experience, this build is a lot stronger, as it looks just like a maruder expand and is very hard to detect until when it hits you. I'm not sure your build works against the 2 tech 1 reactor 3-rax.
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On December 31 2011 17:15 kofman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2011 16:47 Alejandrisha wrote:On December 31 2011 16:31 kofman wrote: As a Terran, I think this is just too risky for Protoss. Whenever I see a Nexus first (which isn't very often), I'll just 3-rax and autowin. Theres no way to stop a well-executed 3-rax with Nexus first, especially while teching, period. That said, maybe this could work in tournaments where maps are bigger, like on that frozen map with front door destructible rocks and an expansion inside your base. the only time i've lost to a 3 rax with 15 nex was vs demuslim. and he put a reactor on his first rax to trick me then floated 2 rax from his main to the low ground and rushed me with all his scvs and marines from close air on shattered temple. i almost held it, but then he had 6 more marines because of mule xD every other 3 rax has failed. I'm not referring to that kind of 3-rax, I'm talking about the 2 tech 1 reactor 3-rax where you hit a timing with stim and concusive shells. In my experience, this build is a lot stronger, as it looks just like a maruder expand and is very hard to detect until when it hits you. I'm not sure your build works against the 2 tech 1 reactor 3-rax. eh that hits a bit too late. tech lab first builds don't work so well as rush builds. they're more unit checks and also quite safe. pushes that have stim with them are also much too late to really punish this. 12-16 2 rax reactor tech lab with shells is much scarier to a 15 nexus
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On December 31 2011 17:17 Alejandrisha wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2011 17:15 kofman wrote:On December 31 2011 16:47 Alejandrisha wrote:On December 31 2011 16:31 kofman wrote: As a Terran, I think this is just too risky for Protoss. Whenever I see a Nexus first (which isn't very often), I'll just 3-rax and autowin. Theres no way to stop a well-executed 3-rax with Nexus first, especially while teching, period. That said, maybe this could work in tournaments where maps are bigger, like on that frozen map with front door destructible rocks and an expansion inside your base. the only time i've lost to a 3 rax with 15 nex was vs demuslim. and he put a reactor on his first rax to trick me then floated 2 rax from his main to the low ground and rushed me with all his scvs and marines from close air on shattered temple. i almost held it, but then he had 6 more marines because of mule xD every other 3 rax has failed. I'm not referring to that kind of 3-rax, I'm talking about the 2 tech 1 reactor 3-rax where you hit a timing with stim and concusive shells. In my experience, this build is a lot stronger, as it looks just like a maruder expand and is very hard to detect until when it hits you. I'm not sure your build works against the 2 tech 1 reactor 3-rax. eh that hits a bit too late. tech lab first builds don't work so well as rush builds. they're more unit checks and also quite safe. pushes that have stim with them are also much too late to really punish this. 12-16 2 rax reactor tech lab with shells is much scarier to a 15 nexus I guess we just have extremely different experiences, or we are talking about different builds, because I always destroy nexus first with 2 tech 1 reactor 3-rax. I pull about half my scv's with my push, and with some micro, its autowin. I've beaten GM protosses who are much better than me by just 3-raxing them whenever I see them going nexus first.
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I remember seeing this idea (speed prism + colossi drop) first from Choya, he did it on Crevasse to harass the natural, but it was only briefly, because I think he got Vikings or something out... I was a bit disappointed.
I feel like (and really hope) the level of SC2 players will dramatically increase. Where people will use things like colossi drops, that might be hard to do, but are effective with a lot of skill. The Warp Prism is an interesting unit. The range it can pick up from, and the way it can keep its acceleration, makes it a hard to master unit. One of those micro thingies that SC2 has and starcraft needs to be able to be "easy to play, impossible to master" :D
Anyway, thanks so much for making this! It's a great guide ^^
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Terran makes vikings against colossus and warp prisms, losing a lot to this unit combo is just negligent play imo.
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Very fun playstyle and I had a great deal of pleasure reading through the guide
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On December 31 2011 17:44 casualman wrote: Terran makes vikings against colossus and warp prisms, losing a lot to this unit combo is just negligent play imo. lol thanks for reading the title of the guide i guess that's as far as you got
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This looks mad sick and micro heavy; I'm just curious if 1gate fe might be the better idea opening? I understand the "got balls son?" mindset but I feel like 15 Nexus is risky even though I usually hold off 3rax with ease when I nex. first; I've seen players get wrecked after going nex first by hellions >_<
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Also it's funny cus Colossi don't have balls. But Reavers shoot balls. And Colossi drops are like Reaver drops in BW. So it's like having balls. AKA you get to do some sexy micro harassment. xD
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Marines: Those prisms...Y THEY MOVE SO FAST?!
Certainly looks entertaining and hard to handle if your opponent isn't expecting it. I mean...COLOSSUS in mineral line lol, totally unexpected.
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On December 31 2011 18:15 MutaKingPrime wrote: This looks mad sick and micro heavy; I'm just curious if 1gate fe might be the better idea opening? I understand the "got balls son?" mindset but I feel like 15 Nexus is risky even though I usually hold off 3rax with ease when I nex. first; I've seen players get wrecked after going nex first by hellions >_< yeah hellions are the big issue with 15 nex imo. you can't negate all losses you just have to minimize them lol. like if you see hellions you're just like ok i'm losing 8 probes here but that's fine i'll just chronoboost a few of them.. it's all bout the sentry stalker and scouting. need to put that pylon on the edge of your base to look for the drop or have a stalker outside the nat in some weird place to see if they run by. a sentry here and there to zone them always makes you feel like a baller as well
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On December 31 2011 18:17 Alejandrisha wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2011 18:15 MutaKingPrime wrote: This looks mad sick and micro heavy; I'm just curious if 1gate fe might be the better idea opening? I understand the "got balls son?" mindset but I feel like 15 Nexus is risky even though I usually hold off 3rax with ease when I nex. first; I've seen players get wrecked after going nex first by hellions >_< yeah hellions are the big issue with 15 nex imo. you can't negate all losses you just have to minimize them lol. like if you see hellions you're just like ok i'm losing 8 probes here but that's fine i'll just chronoboost a few of them.. it's all bout the sentry spread and scouting. need to put that pylon on the edge of your base to look for the drop or have a stalker outside the nat in some weird place to see if they run by. a sentry here and there to zone them always makes you feel like a baller as well okay, so an early sentry would deal with most of the hellion play (i knew this subconciously).
It's just that I saw a weird hellionbased-expand opening by a GM on SEA and he just ran past everything the Protoss player had with like 6 hellions and destroyed his economy (as the guy was warping in his first warp in of 3 zealots, no sentries t_t)
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On December 31 2011 18:23 MutaKingPrime wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2011 18:17 Alejandrisha wrote:On December 31 2011 18:15 MutaKingPrime wrote: This looks mad sick and micro heavy; I'm just curious if 1gate fe might be the better idea opening? I understand the "got balls son?" mindset but I feel like 15 Nexus is risky even though I usually hold off 3rax with ease when I nex. first; I've seen players get wrecked after going nex first by hellions >_< yeah hellions are the big issue with 15 nex imo. you can't negate all losses you just have to minimize them lol. like if you see hellions you're just like ok i'm losing 8 probes here but that's fine i'll just chronoboost a few of them.. it's all bout the sentry spread and scouting. need to put that pylon on the edge of your base to look for the drop or have a stalker outside the nat in some weird place to see if they run by. a sentry here and there to zone them always makes you feel like a baller as well okay, so an early sentry would deal with most of the hellion play (i knew this subconciously). It's just that I saw a weird hellionbased-expand opening by a GM on SEA and he just ran past everything the Protoss player had with like 6 hellions and destroyed his economy (as the guy was warping in his first warp in of 3 zealots, no sentries t_t)
Weird expand? Do you mean like reactor hellion expand or even weirder? =O
Duckville, forgot about your vids haha. I saw them back then but forgot Sickness did those colossi drops!
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Hehe I've been foling around with this too and it's pretty strong. However I do not think double forge and tc is safe, I prefer going 1forge at the same time robo is building and then going up to 5gates + tc. It highly depends on the obs scout ofcourse. Terrans usually get a very fast third cc vs it and you need to take your own third + be safe against their strong 10min bio pushes vs this so grades aren't very important imo..
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On December 31 2011 18:34 Arcanefrost wrote: Hehe I've been foling around with this too and it's pretty strong. However I do not think double forge and tc is safe, I prefer going 1forge at the same time robo is building and then going up to 5gates + tc. It highly depends on the obs scout ofcourse. Terrans usually get a very fast third cc vs it and you need to take your own third + be safe against their strong 10min bio pushes vs this so grades aren't very important imo..
really? i've never been in a situation where, after getting the first drop off upgrades wouldn't pay off in the long run. the only times this has happened are in situations where i've posted the reps and they were awkward situations. against standard tvp they can't really do anything to you while dealing with colo inYObase. if they take a fast third while you have a speed wp with a colo i've always been able to either end the game by inflicting a shit load of damage or do enough damage that i can take my 4th with no contest
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Awesome writeup and enjoyable read! This build is sick, gonna be trying to master it myself... Micro and Macro intensive builds are always fun.
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Great write up, not a protoss myself but love protoss players who innovate things like this.
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On December 31 2011 18:51 NET wrote: Awesome writeup and enjoyable read! This build is sick, gonna be trying to master it myself... Micro and Macro intensive builds are always fun. the only ones i post :D
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that build gosu y u hatin ^^
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the problem i have with this strategy is that turrets deal really well with anything that is classified as Air. 2 turrets make this completely unviable harass.
But i like this alot to keep the Terran busy.
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The Warp prism + colossus harass is very strong, and works like a charm vs weaker players, even mid-high masters, it messes their macro very much, and by the time they manage to stabilize the toss can just come to the natural with gateway + 3-4 colossus and take the win easy.
Not even vikings are that good to stop this, since the warp prism with speed upgrade is very fast and agile.
Good strategy overall, glad to see tosses changing it up a bit.
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Played with it some more today. I think it's pretty good to use your harass to cover a fast third, while going for 6gates then tc and double forge. By doing this you get enough stuff to stop all pushes and drops, and if you cb well you will catch up on grades pretty quickly. Meanwhile you should be able to pick off a tun of stuff, even when there are vikings you can still poke because speed prisms are gosu fast
It's so hilarious when their scvs run away and you get 10+ kills because they're alll lined up ^.^
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Yay, now I can steal this build instead of having to spend 50 games working out all the kinks
I tried the fast collo warp prism a few times before but not with 15 nexus and I kept losing to timings after the speed prism gets stopped.
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Really cool, I've been waiting for someone to come up with a guide for a really micro-intensive fun protoss build
Just hope my skillless diamond self can pull this off ^^
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On December 31 2011 21:48 freetgy wrote: the problem i have with this strategy is that turrets deal really well with anything that is classified as Air. 2 turrets make this completely unviable harass.
But i like this alot to keep the Terran busy.
Someone needs more than just 2 turrets to completely ward off their base from warp prism colossus harass, to the point where if they want to rely on static defense to completely protect themselves from WP+C harass, they need to throw down 4-5 which, if you scout that, signals: "Hey, I think my army is small/too weak to defend from drops, don't harass". Then you can either tech or expand since the terran threw down 400 or so resources in turrets that they can't use now.
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shit i got all the way to master without knowing you could right click units with a warp prism to load them in O_O
that's why i suck at using it
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Can you post some replays of you fucking dying trying this out? It would really make me feel better about sucking in TvP :/ Also, I'd like to know how to beat this
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Consider it STOLEN!
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On January 01 2012 06:49 mbr2321 wrote: Can you post some replays of you fucking dying trying this out? It would really make me feel better about sucking in TvP :/ Also, I'd like to know how to beat this it's really hard to lose if you get the first colo in their base. even if you don't kill much stuff, the map control/mining time advantages you get are pretty much insurmountable. I've lost a few times after getting the drop in usually after losing the WP/colo and then getting hit with a sick bio/ghost/viking timing before storm is out
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Is there a way to do this from a different type of FE? like MC 1gate?
Or are the timings too delayed?
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United States7483 Posts
How does this build deal with an all-in like 2 port banshee or the sky terran focused builds that have been springing up lately? You do get an obs, but with all that gas invested into colossus tech and the easy viking production I feel like you'd be way behind.
Do you happen to have any replays of you doing this build against a terran doing a sky terran style?
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On January 01 2012 07:21 Trusty wrote: Is there a way to do this from a different type of FE? like MC 1gate?
Or are the timings too delayed? yeah i have some such replays in the OP. I will look to see if i have any more tho
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Oh my god this is so awesome...as a terran I would shit myself if I saw this! :D
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On January 01 2012 02:12 iSTime wrote:Yay, now I can steal this build instead of having to spend 50 games working out all the kinks I tried the fast collo warp prism a few times before but not with 15 nexus and I kept losing to timings after the speed prism gets stopped. timeruuuuu happy new year! don't do it on eu. all eu terrans do 1 base 2 rax tank pushes off of one base on every map every game...... O_O
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Couldn't they simply make a viking or two to deal with this? Warp prism drops are indeed useful, but I really don't see the point of putting a collosus in the warp prism. If you lose it, it will set you pretty far behind.
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On January 01 2012 08:24 UnRivaled. wrote: Couldn't they simply make a viking or two to deal with this? Warp prism drops are indeed useful, but I really don't see the point of putting a collosus in the warp prism. If you lose it, it will set you pretty far behind. ideally you should never lose it. if it gets too hot, just sit on your hands for a little bit. even if you just do a few pokes every now and again it pays for itself, no doubt. the only time you risk losing it is when you overextend. speed WP is stupidly fast. you can take a few viking hits but nothing can ever catch you as long as you're careful. then you can always take towers no matter where your army is by simply sitting on it for a sec with your colo then it's off to the races again!
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Kiwikaki once slaughtered me with speed-prism colossus drop it was painful
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^ I almost regret bumping this thread with the above post, because I don't think a lot of people realize how fast that upgrade makes warp prisms. I think it's seriously underutilized and it's a great way to improve multitasking and army-reinforcements. Even without a colossus, you can use it to warp in a few zealots here and there.
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definitely gonna make some attempts at this next ladder session. i dont do nexus first so i'll try my best to make it work with other openings. i'm by no means a pro player or anything but the more info the better ^^
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On January 01 2012 08:38 TangSC wrote: ^ I almost regret bumping this thread with the above post, because I don't think a lot of people realize how fast that upgrade makes warp prisms. I think it's seriously underutilized and it's a great way to improve multitasking and army-reinforcements. Even without a colossus, you can use it to warp in a few zealots here and there. it really helped me with my camera hotkeys because you HAVE to use them in order to do everything else you need to do while harassing so yes I approve of this message
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really excited to play around with this style of play
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bad build if u go nexus first and i dont see u getting a 2nd gateway before ur core and assuming im 1rack cc i just go 5racks without gas and kill you or 4racks off 1base without gas u cant hold with 1gateway either
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On January 01 2012 10:59 GosI[Terran] wrote: bad build if u go nexus first and i dont see u getting a 2nd gateway before ur core and assuming im 1rack cc i just go 5racks without gas and kill you or 4racks off 1base without gas u cant hold with 1gateway either these days i only do it if i see the cc :p demu did something like that with a reactor first, pull from gas and lift 2 rax from his main to low ground close air on shattered temple... was not fun.
i've been working with some 2 gate before core builds to get to this. much safer but slower ofc. good if you're trying to do it a bit in the dark and then you can always change your mind about going wp speed
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holy crap I didn't know colossus/shuttle micro while holding an attack off at home was this hard
just tried this a few times on my alt and got destroyed by the counterattack, but the amount of damage you can deal with a single colossus is pretty awesome
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im to lazy to write up a guide but this is a build i been doing pvt and is safe againts anything if done correctly and argubly more annoying than collosus drop, if anyone wanna watch it here is the replay, obviously my protoss is not good but i undestearnd tvp pretty well and its annoying to deal with this. http://drop.sc/82020
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On January 01 2012 11:12 GosI[Terran] wrote:im to lazy to write up a guide but this is a build i been doing pvt and is safe againts anything if done correctly and argubly more annoying than collosus drop, if anyone wanna watch it here is the replay, obviously my protoss is not good but i undestearnd tvp pretty well and its annoying to deal with this. http://drop.sc/82020
nice yea i was mixing in a few of those when trying to force this build every pvt. addon sniping is something colo drops can't do and getting those immortals makes you a lot safer. also beats the shit out of the few mauraders they might leave at the edge of the base to fend off drops since terrans aren't used to dealing with wp harass :D
thanks!
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On December 31 2011 18:30 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2011 18:23 MutaKingPrime wrote:On December 31 2011 18:17 Alejandrisha wrote:On December 31 2011 18:15 MutaKingPrime wrote: This looks mad sick and micro heavy; I'm just curious if 1gate fe might be the better idea opening? I understand the "got balls son?" mindset but I feel like 15 Nexus is risky even though I usually hold off 3rax with ease when I nex. first; I've seen players get wrecked after going nex first by hellions >_< yeah hellions are the big issue with 15 nex imo. you can't negate all losses you just have to minimize them lol. like if you see hellions you're just like ok i'm losing 8 probes here but that's fine i'll just chronoboost a few of them.. it's all bout the sentry spread and scouting. need to put that pylon on the edge of your base to look for the drop or have a stalker outside the nat in some weird place to see if they run by. a sentry here and there to zone them always makes you feel like a baller as well okay, so an early sentry would deal with most of the hellion play (i knew this subconciously). It's just that I saw a weird hellionbased-expand opening by a GM on SEA and he just ran past everything the Protoss player had with like 6 hellions and destroyed his economy (as the guy was warping in his first warp in of 3 zealots, no sentries t_t) Weird expand? Do you mean like reactor hellion expand or even weirder? =O Duckville, forgot about your vids haha. I saw them back then but forgot Sickness did those colossi drops!
like his standard opening that the GM does, as soon as he drops the cc he does a weird marine hellion push that isnt all in at all
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On March 17 2011 01:54 Iatrik wrote: Since i predicted more Immortal + Warpprism in PvP [Like WhiteRa uses them now] , I'll make one more prediction that'll blow your mind:
"Dual Warpprism + Colossi" (2 Warpprism & 2 Colossus) in the future. It'll be very technical, since one mistake will punish you a lot. But if you can pull it off, it'll be very powerful.
Or course, You'll need "Warpprism Speed" to make it do-able.
I feel so powerful right now (~9 months later) :D
Love the build. With proper scouting, i don't see any big flaws. But i wonder how you deal with 2-base sky terran?
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Odd note that I think should be somewhere here, if you're getting out of colossus based armies and going into a templar based gateway centric army you should expand away from your Terran buddy just about 100% of the time. It just works better and often lets you get out that one more round of chronobooseted warp ins that you need to hold off the Terran backlash.
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On January 01 2012 11:56 Iatrik wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 01:54 Iatrik wrote: Since i predicted more Immortal + Warpprism in PvP [Like WhiteRa uses them now] , I'll make one more prediction that'll blow your mind:
"Dual Warpprism + Colossi" (2 Warpprism & 2 Colossus) in the future. It'll be very technical, since one mistake will punish you a lot. But if you can pull it off, it'll be very powerful.
Or course, You'll need "Warpprism Speed" to make it do-able. I feel so powerful right now (~9 months later) :D Love the build. With proper scouting, i don't see any big flaws. But i wonder how you deal with 2-base sky terran?
A nice thing about this build is that you will invariably see the Sky Terran build incoming and are, if you're taking Alejandrisha's advice, moving towards Templar tech. Templar tech and Chronoboosted air upgrade phoenix rip Sky Terran to shreds if it isn't on at least 3 base. This is assuming you still have one or two Colossi and the Terran is basing his Sky Terran on out killing your Phoenix with his vikings with marine support... if you engage well there're no reason why you shouldn't rip the Terran right out of the sky! (This is what I've seen Axslav do vs Sky Terran)
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I still have never seen this "sky terran" people seem to be talking about so much on tl these days If I ever run in to it I suppose I'll let ya'll know how to went.. oh btw happy new year east coast USA ^^
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WP speed (hotkey = G)
My favorite part of the guide :D
I tried doing this a few times and got a few kills with the collosus, nothing amazing though. As long as you get away there isn't much downside to it. Speed shuttle HTs are pretty good for mobile defense too, and they can't be EMPed!
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On January 01 2012 14:18 Alejandrisha wrote: I still have never seen this "sky terran" people seem to be talking about so much on tl these days If I ever run in to it I suppose I'll let ya'll know how to went.. oh btw happy new year east coast USA ^^
On January 01 2012 12:05 ShatterZer0 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2012 11:56 Iatrik wrote:On March 17 2011 01:54 Iatrik wrote: Since i predicted more Immortal + Warpprism in PvP [Like WhiteRa uses them now] , I'll make one more prediction that'll blow your mind:
"Dual Warpprism + Colossi" (2 Warpprism & 2 Colossus) in the future. It'll be very technical, since one mistake will punish you a lot. But if you can pull it off, it'll be very powerful.
Or course, You'll need "Warpprism Speed" to make it do-able. I feel so powerful right now (~9 months later) :D Love the build. With proper scouting, i don't see any big flaws. But i wonder how you deal with 2-base sky terran? A nice thing about this build is that you will invariably see the Sky Terran build incoming and are, if you're taking Alejandrisha's advice, moving towards Templar tech. Templar tech and Chronoboosted air upgrade phoenix rip Sky Terran to shreds if it isn't on at least 3 base. This is assuming you still have one or two Colossi and the Terran is basing his Sky Terran on out killing your Phoenix with his vikings with marine support... if you engage well there're no reason why you shouldn't rip the Terran right out of the sky! (This is what I've seen Axslav do vs Sky Terran)
Can you name any games where Axslav played against air terran? I can't imagine using Marines in any way past using them to fill up some bunkers early game or for controlling towers or scouting to be nearly as efficient as simply building more CCs or Hellions, so that you can focus on your entire army being able to ignore the restrictions of ground movement.
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How do u react in gerneral , when terran scouts that u are going for nexus first, and puts down a bunker or bay to prevent it ?
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woo that build sounds really cool New years resolution - win a game with this build not losing a colossus or a wp xD
thanks for sharing
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I don't think I'm man enough to take this to ladder...
...but there's a teammate of mine who plays random who needs a taste of his own medicine in terms of risky unconventional bullshit.
This is truly THE test in the world for quantity of manliness.
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hmm i gotta try this, also i could only imagine what the terran was thinking in the first pic. OH SHI...
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I am a low plat protoss (low because my bonus pool is in the 100s i think).. but i am known amongst my friends to be the most eco cheesiest sc2 player.. i used to 15 nexus against terrans in s3 also lol..And this is just perfect for me..Now i dont have the skill to be efficient but I always think that at my level even the terran doesnt have the skill to macro up correctly and defeat it..so I am gonna try this
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On January 01 2012 18:40 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2012 14:18 Alejandrisha wrote: I still have never seen this "sky terran" people seem to be talking about so much on tl these days If I ever run in to it I suppose I'll let ya'll know how to went.. oh btw happy new year east coast USA ^^ Show nested quote +On January 01 2012 12:05 ShatterZer0 wrote:On January 01 2012 11:56 Iatrik wrote:On March 17 2011 01:54 Iatrik wrote: Since i predicted more Immortal + Warpprism in PvP [Like WhiteRa uses them now] , I'll make one more prediction that'll blow your mind:
"Dual Warpprism + Colossi" (2 Warpprism & 2 Colossus) in the future. It'll be very technical, since one mistake will punish you a lot. But if you can pull it off, it'll be very powerful.
Or course, You'll need "Warpprism Speed" to make it do-able. I feel so powerful right now (~9 months later) :D Love the build. With proper scouting, i don't see any big flaws. But i wonder how you deal with 2-base sky terran? A nice thing about this build is that you will invariably see the Sky Terran build incoming and are, if you're taking Alejandrisha's advice, moving towards Templar tech. Templar tech and Chronoboosted air upgrade phoenix rip Sky Terran to shreds if it isn't on at least 3 base. This is assuming you still have one or two Colossi and the Terran is basing his Sky Terran on out killing your Phoenix with his vikings with marine support... if you engage well there're no reason why you shouldn't rip the Terran right out of the sky! (This is what I've seen Axslav do vs Sky Terran) Can you name any games where Axslav played against air terran? I can't imagine using Marines in any way past using them to fill up some bunkers early game or for controlling towers or scouting to be nearly as efficient as simply building more CCs or Hellions, so that you can focus on your entire army being able to ignore the restrictions of ground movement.
On his stream. Generally 2 base sky Terran is a bad choice after 1 rax gasless expo... telegraphing fast tech ports after gasless expo where a Protoss has speedprism... so most of that was just build order win anyways. The way Axslav put it was something like "If he makes marines he's an idiot, but if he doesn't make marines he's dead." I don't pretend to be on his level so I'm guessing he's got some angry transition somewhere.
Axslav REALLY loves his +1 chrono phoenix control.
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On January 01 2012 20:42 Yuffie wrote: How do u react in gerneral , when terran scouts that u are going for nexus first, and puts down a bunker or bay to prevent it ? in general, you want to get 2 gates before robo and cb units out as fast as possible. you should see the bunker(s) going up on your nat scout on your 17 pylon or your 18 gas and get the gates up as fast as possible and use 1-2 probes for each scv (make sure you shift right click them a bunch of times or they WILL stop attacking it when the scv goes inside the bunker because terran is bullshit) and a few to go after marines as your zealots won't be able to touch them if they're micro'd correctly. i have a few replays of this let me look!
edit: here are a few games where I play safer out of 15 nex in that kind of situation
http://drop.sc/82410 http://drop.sc/82409 http://drop.sc/82411
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On January 01 2012 22:32 Ashes wrote:I am a low plat protoss (low because my bonus pool is in the 100s i think).. but i am known amongst my friends to be the most eco cheesiest sc2 player.. i used to 15 nexus against terrans in s3 also lol..And this is just perfect for me..Now i dont have the skill to be efficient but I always think that at my level even the terran doesnt have the skill to macro up correctly and defeat it..so I am gonna try this good attitude! this build will help you work on your camera hotkeys so make sure you're using them! set one to wear you're warping in units during harass (usually in front of your nat) and perhaps one in your main so you can add on infrastructure when necessary. gl!
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another marvelous guide, making me wish I played protoss :DDDDD
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Nice guide and very unique/unorthodox, but what if the enemy has a sensor tower to prevent WP harass?
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Nexus first sucks. Colossus drops rock. But nexus first is something like 6pool, it wont work against anyone remotely competent. 4rax marine with a bunker kills it all the time. No exceptions.
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On January 02 2012 16:50 Alejandrisha wrote: dont drop there
No I mean if T has sensor then the WP harass is gone right?
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On January 02 2012 20:47 DontLoseSightOfIt wrote:No I mean if T has sensor then the WP harass is gone right?
you can start faking w/another prism pretty easily
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On January 02 2012 19:22 Tommie wrote: Nexus first sucks. Colossus drops rock. But nexus first is something like 6pool, it wont work against anyone remotely competent. 4rax marine with a bunker kills it all the time. No exceptions.
No it wont, check axlav's stream
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On January 01 2012 09:16 Alejandrisha wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2012 08:38 TangSC wrote: ^ I almost regret bumping this thread with the above post, because I don't think a lot of people realize how fast that upgrade makes warp prisms. I think it's seriously underutilized and it's a great way to improve multitasking and army-reinforcements. Even without a colossus, you can use it to warp in a few zealots here and there. it really helped me with my camera hotkeys because you HAVE to use them in order to do everything else you need to do while harassing so yes I approve of this message That too, really good point I hadn't thought of that.
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United States7483 Posts
Alejandrisha, do you have any experience going up against an MVP.Keen style hellion build to counter your nexus first? He's been doing it with an almost 100% win rate vs. nexus first builds lately.
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Doing this on a map without Xel Naga tower control is the scariest thing in the world. I am honestly scared to death about any sort of pressure especially when the SCV comes and sees a nexus first into 1 gate core lol
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On January 03 2012 00:40 Whitewing wrote: Alejandrisha, do you have any experience going up against an MVP.Keen style hellion build to counter your nexus first? He's been doing it with an almost 100% win rate vs. nexus first builds lately. yeah. it's really tough. you have to be watching the minimap 100% of the time for hellions at the nat and have a good spread of pylons in the main to try not to let a drop get in undetected. have at least 1 sentry in both mineral lines as well as some stalkers and whatever else you have and just try to zone out the hellions as best you can with ff/simcity/unit blocking. it's never fun and you will lose probes to it no matter what. it's just a matter of minimizing damage.
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Learnt the hard way......... that you MUST build a 2nd collosus right after your first.... in case of all-in counter attack....
(But I am doing this from 1gate FE, so will be slower than the nexus first version)
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its funny how many terrans still think they can punish the nexus first. there are several topics here that show that you will never break it if the protoss is playing correctly. check axslav stream as mentioned before. and plz stop spreading that this is crushed by any sort of bio/scv all in. it is not. if you succeeded, gratz... you played against someone who is either bad or just not experienced enough with the build or just screwed up (micro? happens quite often, right? o_O)
thx for the build... its so nice to see this warp prism micro ^^ so funny
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On January 03 2012 00:09 Arcanefrost wrote:Show nested quote +On January 02 2012 19:22 Tommie wrote: Nexus first sucks. Colossus drops rock. But nexus first is something like 6pool, it wont work against anyone remotely competent. 4rax marine with a bunker kills it all the time. No exceptions. No it wont, check axlav's stream
would you specify how to hold with nexus first then? Or at least link to an axlav's vod please?
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On January 03 2012 17:20 Quochobao wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2012 00:09 Arcanefrost wrote:On January 02 2012 19:22 Tommie wrote: Nexus first sucks. Colossus drops rock. But nexus first is something like 6pool, it wont work against anyone remotely competent. 4rax marine with a bunker kills it all the time. No exceptions. No it wont, check axlav's stream would you specify how to hold with nexus first then? Or at least link to an axlav's vod please?
http://drop.sc/54449
You just cb units out of your 2gates. Fast 3zealot then 2stalkers.
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Is this only viable out of a 15 nex? Could I do this out of a 1 gate FE or does that get tech up too late to actually be effective?
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On January 03 2012 23:52 Easytouch1500 wrote: Is this only viable out of a 15 nex? Could I do this out of a 1 gate FE or does that get tech up too late to actually be effective? you can do it out of any opener. I find it to be smoother out of 15 nex against the builds mentioned in the op, however. Because you have a smaller window of vulnerability between when the terran expects you to have picked a tech path and when he will be moving for his 2 base poke; ie he would want to hit you if you rushed double forge after 3 gates on a 1 gate fe but you would have more units at the same time with a 15 nex by the time a 2 base ghost push hit than you would with a 1 gate fe.
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
Coming from a terran player who's played against this, is there any reasonable way you could place a turret to fight against the colossus? turrets match the range of colossi IIRC (before lances) and you could use it to create a safe zone to prevent kiting, right? Or would that not work out.
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right in the middle of the line does pretty well until the colossus gets range. at that point i recommend having 2, at either end of the mineral field if you don't want to keep a viking at the edge of the expansion. turrets fuck up the colossus's ai and can shoot at both the wp and the colo which is really annoying for the colo user. means i he has to shift click scvs and awkwardly amble outside the range of the turret if it gets dragged in some how
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
Possibly the worst of all possible things is Colossus AI/pathing near mineral patches.
I mean another thing about the Colossus/prism thing is scouting it and reacting. A 15 nex into quick robo isn't totally unreasonable, and it's hard to distinguish from quick colossus with lances unless you actually see the warp prism. I'd be very surprised if (assuming no allins happen) the ColossusShip fails to do damage.
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On January 04 2012 06:38 Blazinghand wrote: Possibly the worst of all possible things is Colossus AI/pathing near mineral patches.
I mean another thing about the Colossus/prism thing is scouting it and reacting. A 15 nex into quick robo isn't totally unreasonable, and it's hard to distinguish from quick colossus with lances unless you actually see the warp prism. I'd be very surprised if (assuming no allins happen) the ColossusShip fails to do damage. yes the first drop SHOULD do damage of at least 3-5 scvs every time as well as force scv transfer. after that, the ball is mostly in the terran's court to defend it, but this also removes his units from the map to do effectively for a few minutes. and that's all a protoss could ever hope for
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Would it still be worth getting ColloRange, if you're only going to make 1-3 collosus? (Purely from a harassment point of view).
I find once a viking is out, I'm no longer doing big damage, and more just keeping a handful of marines in his base, instead of on the map.... does the range really help?
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On January 04 2012 06:53 Trusty wrote: Would it still be worth getting ColloRange, if you're only going to make 1-3 collosus? (Purely from a harassment point of view).
I find once a viking is out, I'm no longer doing big damage, and more just keeping a handful of marines in his base, instead of on the map.... does the range really help? absolutely! they can out range marauders and you have 3 more pixels to harass scvs that are running away. the vikings also have to fly that much farther to hit you :D
a 6 range colossus is ok for the surprise factor, but as soon as they see you drop it afterwards and it has 6 range, they just run away and your colossus does a derp dance and doesn't fire a lot of the time
range just makes it so much deadlier! and non-ranged colossus later when you engage are just terrible against standard composition
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Of course I am impressed by the build, but I'm even more impressed by you making up a verb "maynard", and making it sound like it makes sense the first time I hear it. Kudos, sir.
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Blazinghand
United States25546 Posts
On January 04 2012 07:09 Sphen5117 wrote: Of course I am impressed by the build, but I'm even more impressed by you making up a verb "maynard", and making it sound like it makes sense the first time I hear it. Kudos, sir.
Behold, ye unenlightened, and learn!
On the Origin of Maynard
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On January 04 2012 07:09 Sphen5117 wrote: Of course I am impressed by the build, but I'm even more impressed by you making up a verb "maynard", and making it sound like it makes sense the first time I hear it. Kudos, sir.
'Maynard' been around for years, originating from early BW. Maynard was a great player who first popularized over-saturation of one expo and then moving a chunk of workers to a new expansion.
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I am enlightened. I honestly googled it for a few minutes and found nothing. Google has failed me by not bringing me this man's life story.
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oh this game my replay kk
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On January 10 2012 02:37 NEXSickness wrote: oh this game my replay kk
The warp prism/colo pro has entered the arena! keke
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On January 10 2012 02:37 NEXSickness wrote: oh this game my replay kk hihi! hope you can provide us some more :D fighting!
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On January 10 2012 02:37 NEXSickness wrote: oh this game my replay kk
more collosus / warp prism replay pls
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I've tried to do this alot. The problem against a high master player, was that he just put turrets up on the edges of his two bases, and marines in the middle of the bases. When he wanted to kill me - he went out and did it.
I was thinking about doing a what seems to be pretty popular 6gate push. The guy from high master, said he died to it all the time. I tried it, but he hold easily even though i'm mid masters.
We discussed it and concluded that the BO prolly wasn't correct. The push is suppose to happen at the 6-7 minut mark.
Does anybody know what the build order for Nexus first into 6gate is?
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It's advice against 6 gate if you want to nexus first. It just hits too late and with too few units. Your production hasnt kicked in yet by the time Terran is vulnerable to it. That's just my personal experience.
OT, there are so many other pros to this strat besides just killing stuff. You contain the terran and gain mapcontrol. Something that I think every Protoss struggles with and "feels" insecure about. It also leaves you with a good reinforcement tool and a straight forward tech pattern, which can be altered easily since you have constant scouting information <- KEY!
I love this build, it just makes the game more fun and I feel I have more control over the game, exactly how I want it to be!
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heres a pretty educational rep of nex first vs 12/16 reactor first 2 rax all-in http://drop.sc/91182
ideally, i would have focused down his marines with my stalkers in the engage. would have saved me some probe losses. you need to check if they are expanding or still making units afterwards, so make sure you check his natural after the initial push.
also i didn't have to lose that colossus in the wp but i was stupid ^^
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I just played a really fun game using this idea. I didnt go 15 nexus though, I prefer Huking. Of course we both made lots of mistakes, Im top diamond he was master. http://drop.sc/94317# This thread has inspired me to not play boring anymore... Never again will I be passive until my death ball is complete. Every game will have dts, carriers, prisms and storms.
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I did a slightly later variation of the build, you can get the general idea here, however I MAJORLY screwed up in the end and lost it. Point out any suggestions for my play if you have them - otherwise, enjoy the build! :D http://drop.sc/95656
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Sickest build.
So sick. I was getting crushed in PvT and was considering hanging myself on Thursday but this has changed my outlook on life.
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I tried it last night and even though it is very micro intensive it keeps the terran focused on his own base rather than drops/expo/etc. Very effective on specific maps where you can abuse the cliffs and landscape. Great to have in your bag of build orders for tourneys!
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Wow so sick man I am going to try this, That colossus harass NEXSickness is doing is unbelievably awesome, also I have tried a 20nexus and then getting 1-2 gateways with a forge and 1-2 cannons at the ramp of my natural to stop any bio attacks in the beginning, It doesn't seem like it is too much of a commitment just throwing down 1 cannon especially since I normally opt to go for 17-20 nexus instead of a 15 or 16 , but I now always add a forge and get 1 -2 cannons to be safe while i'm teching because some terran's have hit me with a lot of marines maybe 16-20 and majority / all of they're scv's and I've found it ridiculously hard to hold this without a cannon or two, when they see that they normally won't even try this attack / all in.
What do you think about getting a forge with this build and a cannon at ramp just to be safe of any sort of bio / scv all in ? Or what is the best way to hold it without a forge? Because I always feel it is much better / safer to go ahead and get a forge, what do you think sir?
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On January 31 2012 21:06 GGzerG wrote: Wow so sick man I am going to try this, That colossus harass NEXSickness is doing is unbelievably awesome, also I have tried a 20nexus and then getting 1-2 gateways with a forge and 1-2 cannons at the ramp of my natural to stop any bio attacks in the beginning, It doesn't seem like it is too much of a commitment just throwing down 1 cannon especially since I normally opt to go for 17-20 nexus instead of a 15 or 16 , but I now always add a forge and get 1 -2 cannons to be safe while i'm teching because some terran's have hit me with a lot of marines maybe 16-20 and majority / all of they're scv's and I've found it ridiculously hard to hold this without a cannon or two, when they see that they normally won't even try this attack / all in.
What do you think about getting a forge with this build and a cannon at ramp just to be safe of any sort of bio / scv all in ? Or what is the best way to hold it without a forge? Because I always feel it is much better / safer to go ahead and get a forge, what do you think sir? this discussion is currently taking place in this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13342019 the above thread is more about 16 nexus in general so these kinds of topics will be discussed there
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Collo drops are scary cause you actually lose a lot if the prism is sniped and I don't know if my multi tasking is good enough for this yet. I'll fav this page and hopefully come back to it, thanks ^^
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awesome build tryed on ladder yesterday. but u die to 3 rax pressure bcs ur WG is not even close to finish when the 3 marauders and 5 marines have a free walk to ur base
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i might do a section on pure gw timings at some point. for now it looks like you can get 16 zealot 2 stalker 8 sentry at 8:50 with 30 probes and 2 gases. i found that 2 cb on WG research is all you will need. any more and your gates won't be done in time
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Ask DayJ to analyze this?
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must be careful using this vs. 1-1-1 type builds. I play terran, and generally always get a viking if i suspect WP play. Protoss has invested a lot into early colossus and wp, having it caught and killed by a single viking would really suck.
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On February 01 2012 00:44 wheelchairs wrote: must be careful using this vs. 1-1-1 type builds. I play terran, and generally always get a viking if i suspect WP play. Protoss has invested a lot into early colossus and wp, having it caught and killed by a single viking would really suck. if by 1;1;1 builds you mean that kind of composition off of 2 bases, the speed wp colo style is actually very good. stim is late and stim bio is the only thing terran has that is as fast as a speed wp. a viking should not be able to kill it.
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I know this is a risky build, you've made that clear a few times. But how do you hold any sort of pressure off of just one gate for so long? I'm assuming that they scout your nexus first and tweak whatever they're doing to pressure the hell out of you. It seems like a fun build, but not really the most effective. It just seems like a hard 6 gate is a better follow up to an unmolested 16 nexus. Pretty much no risk in 6 gating, it's kind of hard not to do damage or trade favorably. Unless they do something like 1 rax expo into fast cloak( someone did this vs mc, no?) regardless, your scouting pokes should give you heads up
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On February 01 2012 01:31 DoctorFunk wrote: I know this is a risky build, you've made that clear a few times. But how do you hold any sort of pressure off of just one gate for so long? I'm assuming that they scout your nexus first and tweak whatever they're doing to pressure the hell out of you. It seems like a fun build, but not really the most effective. It just seems like a hard 6 gate is a better follow up to an unmolested 16 nexus. Pretty much no risk in 6 gating, it's kind of hard not to do damage or trade favorably. Unless they do something like 1 rax expo into fast cloak( someone did this vs mc, no?) regardless, your scouting pokes should give you heads up the col drop style is only used if expo is confirmed. if you have a rep where he did fe build on the maps i mentioned in the op and you die to pressure, feel free to post rep here and i can address it
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Adding this to my, "need to try," bucket of builds.
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i wish toss did this to me to so i could just know his tech instead of having to scout it and so i could easily make two vikings from reactor port and rape it and the warp prism. this is a retarded strategy. by 10 minutes i have 4 medivacs, two full dropping your base and the other two with another control group either attacking ur front or defending my base. one collosus aint shit, even if i was out of my base id just pump vikings and laugh and the stupidity.
edit: protoss, try defending a multi pronged drop timing attack by terran and still micro that one unupgraded collosus at terran's base to do damage. but please, more tosses should do this because it would make it easier to win for us terrans.
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On February 01 2012 02:12 HeavenS wrote: i wish toss did this to me to so i could just know his tech instead of having to scout it and so i could easily make two vikings from reactor port and rape it and the warp prism. this is a retarded strategy. by 10 minutes i have 4 medivacs, two full dropping your base and the other two with another control group either attacking ur front or defending my base. one collosus aint shit, even if i was out of my base id just pump vikings and laugh and the stupidity.
edit: protoss, try defending a multi pronged drop timing attack by terran and still micro that one unupgraded collosus at terran's base to do damage. but please, more tosses should do this because it would make it easier to win for us terrans.
You're probably overlooking the fact that your opponent could easily 5gate since they've got 2 bases.
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On February 01 2012 02:12 HeavenS wrote: i wish toss did this to me to so i could just know his tech instead of having to scout it and so i could easily make two vikings from reactor port and rape it and the warp prism. this is a retarded strategy. by 10 minutes i have 4 medivacs, two full dropping your base and the other two with another control group either attacking ur front or defending my base. one collosus aint shit, even if i was out of my base id just pump vikings and laugh and the stupidity.
edit: protoss, try defending a multi pronged drop timing attack by terran and still micro that one unupgraded collosus at terran's base to do damage. but please, more tosses should do this because it would make it easier to win for us terrans.
thx for taking the 15 seconds out of your day to post this shit post
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On January 31 2012 23:50 clownzim wrote:awesome build tryed on ladder yesterday. but u die to 3 rax pressure bcs ur WG is not even close to finish when the 3 marauders and 5 marines have a free walk to ur base
If you nexus first you aren't replying on wg tech to hold a 3 rax. You are relying on ur chrono boost on 2 gateways, making zealot and stalker. WG tech should finish shortly after in case he gets by with a few units... If he brings scvs, match him with probes to survive. If you see gas and techlab on rax without reaper, even more obvious if tech lab is researching, its safe to assume fast 3 rax stim, in which case you would get another gateway continue production and probably delay your 3rd 4th gas as well as your prism drop. Once you hold the 3 gate you should be able to just roll your opponent.
Dont forget to poke with zealot stalker as usual, it can give you valuable info about expos (bunker) or if they have a marauder, which means pressure. At most you should only lose your zealot in the scouting mission.
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On February 01 2012 02:12 HeavenS wrote: i wish toss did this to me to so i could just know his tech instead of having to scout it and so i could easily make two vikings from reactor port and rape it and the warp prism. this is a retarded strategy. by 10 minutes i have 4 medivacs, two full dropping your base and the other two with another control group either attacking ur front or defending my base. one collosus aint shit, even if i was out of my base id just pump vikings and laugh and the stupidity.
edit: protoss, try defending a multi pronged drop timing attack by terran and still micro that one unupgraded collosus at terran's base to do damage. but please, more tosses should do this because it would make it easier to win for us terrans.
And your contribution here is?
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On February 17 2012 23:14 Sated wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2012 07:00 Sphen5117 wrote:On February 01 2012 02:12 HeavenS wrote: i wish toss did this to me to so i could just know his tech instead of having to scout it and so i could easily make two vikings from reactor port and rape it and the warp prism. this is a retarded strategy. by 10 minutes i have 4 medivacs, two full dropping your base and the other two with another control group either attacking ur front or defending my base. one collosus aint shit, even if i was out of my base id just pump vikings and laugh and the stupidity.
edit: protoss, try defending a multi pronged drop timing attack by terran and still micro that one unupgraded collosus at terran's base to do damage. but please, more tosses should do this because it would make it easier to win for us terrans.
And your contribution here is? Someone tried pumping Vikings against me the other day, it didn't work. My Colossus drop wasn't shot down because Speed-Prisms are pretty quick and even though I only got 5-6 kills with that drop, it freaked out the Terran so much that they pumped out pure Viking from that point onwards. Because they went so heavy into Vikings, they only had a couple of Medivacs available when I pushed out whilst taking my third, so my Gateway army killed their bio army pretty handily because there wasn't enough healing support. I couldn't break up into the natural, but the damage was already done: I transitioned into Immortal/Templar/Chargelot afterwards and there were then 10+ Vikings in the air doing diddily-squat. This style is so awesome, needed a bump
I haven't been able to use it so much since every terran is doing some silly 1 base build every game, unfortunately. And then when they open without gas, more than half of the time its a marine scv all in. really annoying :/
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maybe this game will inspire those who begrudgingly look for 1 rax fe'ers and find only 4 rax cheesers T_T http://drop.sc/130143
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AleJ, mad love for trying to make this build work. Reminds me of good old speed shuttle reaver micro in brood war.
Protip: Pack up your replays into a zip so us aspiring pseudo-reaver players can watch you do this!!!! <3
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