On January 02 2012 19:22 Tommie wrote:
Nexus first sucks. Colossus drops rock. But nexus first is something like 6pool, it wont work against anyone remotely competent. 4rax marine with a bunker kills it all the time. No exceptions.

No it wont, check axlav's stream

TangSC

Canada1866 Posts

January 02 2012 15:32 GMT

#102

On January 01 2012 09:16 Alejandrisha wrote:

Show nested quote +

it really helped me with my camera hotkeys because you HAVE to use them in order to do everything else you need to do while harassing so yes I approve of this message

That too, really good point I hadn't thought of that.

Whitewing

United States7483 Posts

January 02 2012 15:40 GMT

#103

Alejandrisha, do you have any experience going up against an MVP.Keen style hellion build to counter your nexus first? He's been doing it with an almost 100% win rate vs. nexus first builds lately.

peidongyang

Canada2084 Posts

January 02 2012 15:45 GMT

#104

Doing this on a map without Xel Naga tower control is the scariest thing in the world. I am honestly scared to death about any sort of pressure especially when the SCV comes and sees a nexus first into 1 gate core lol

Alejandrisha

United States6565 Posts

January 02 2012 21:25 GMT

#105

On January 03 2012 00:40 Whitewing wrote:
Alejandrisha, do you have any experience going up against an MVP.Keen style hellion build to counter your nexus first? He's been doing it with an almost 100% win rate vs. nexus first builds lately.

yeah. it's really tough. you have to be watching the minimap 100% of the time for hellions at the nat and have a good spread of pylons in the main to try not to let a drop get in undetected. have at least 1 sentry in both mineral lines as well as some stalkers and whatever else you have and just try to zone out the hellions as best you can with ff/simcity/unit blocking. it's never fun and you will lose probes to it no matter what. it's just a matter of minimizing damage.

Trusty

New Zealand520 Posts

January 03 2012 02:00 GMT

#106

Learnt the hard way......... that you MUST build a 2nd collosus right after your first.... in case of all-in counter attack....

(But I am doing this from 1gate FE, so will be slower than the nexus first version)

Feos

Germany71 Posts

January 03 2012 02:18 GMT

#107

its funny how many terrans still think they can punish the nexus first.
there are several topics here that show that you will never break it if the protoss is playing correctly. check axslav stream as mentioned before.
and plz stop spreading that this is crushed by any sort of bio/scv all in. it is not.
if you succeeded, gratz... you played against someone who is either bad or just not experienced enough with the build or just screwed up (micro? happens quite often, right? o_O)

thx for the build... its so nice to see this warp prism micro ^^ so funny

Quochobao

United States350 Posts

January 03 2012 08:20 GMT

#108

On January 03 2012 00:09 Arcanefrost wrote:

Show nested quote +

No it wont, check axlav's stream

would you specify how to hold with nexus first then? Or at least link to an axlav's vod please?

Feos

Germany71 Posts

January 03 2012 08:25 GMT

#109

here: get nuts ^^
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=284253

Arcanefrost

Belgium1257 Posts

January 03 2012 08:48 GMT

#110

On January 03 2012 17:20 Quochobao wrote:

Show nested quote +

would you specify how to hold with nexus first then? Or at least link to an axlav's vod please?

http://drop.sc/54449

You just cb units out of your 2gates. Fast 3zealot then 2stalkers.

Easytouch1500

United States66 Posts

January 03 2012 14:52 GMT

#111

Is this only viable out of a 15 nex? Could I do this out of a 1 gate FE or does that get tech up too late to actually be effective?

philippo

Sweden97 Posts

January 03 2012 18:36 GMT

#112

Thanks for this awesome build Alej! Here´s a high masters game of the build on EU where I really outplayed my opponent if anyone wants to watch.

http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=248404

Alejandrisha

United States6565 Posts

January 03 2012 21:10 GMT

#113

On January 03 2012 23:52 Easytouch1500 wrote:
Is this only viable out of a 15 nex? Could I do this out of a 1 gate FE or does that get tech up too late to actually be effective?

you can do it out of any opener. I find it to be smoother out of 15 nex against the builds mentioned in the op, however. Because you have a smaller window of vulnerability between when the terran expects you to have picked a tech path and when he will be moving for his 2 base poke; ie he would want to hit you if you rushed double forge after 3 gates on a 1 gate fe but you would have more units at the same time with a 15 nex by the time a 2 base ghost push hit than you would with a 1 gate fe.

Blazinghand

United States25552 Posts

January 03 2012 21:30 GMT

#114

Coming from a terran player who's played against this, is there any reasonable way you could place a turret to fight against the colossus? turrets match the range of colossi IIRC (before lances) and you could use it to create a safe zone to prevent kiting, right? Or would that not work out.

Alejandrisha

United States6565 Posts

January 03 2012 21:35 GMT

#115

right in the middle of the line does pretty well until the colossus gets range. at that point i recommend having 2, at either end of the mineral field if you don't want to keep a viking at the edge of the expansion. turrets fuck up the colossus's ai and can shoot at both the wp and the colo which is really annoying for the colo user. means i he has to shift click scvs and awkwardly amble outside the range of the turret if it gets dragged in some how

Blazinghand

United States25552 Posts

January 03 2012 21:38 GMT

#116

Possibly the worst of all possible things is Colossus AI/pathing near mineral patches.

I mean another thing about the Colossus/prism thing is scouting it and reacting. A 15 nex into quick robo isn't totally unreasonable, and it's hard to distinguish from quick colossus with lances unless you actually see the warp prism. I'd be very surprised if (assuming no allins happen) the ColossusShip fails to do damage.

Alejandrisha

United States6565 Posts

January 03 2012 21:42 GMT

#117

On January 04 2012 06:38 Blazinghand wrote:
Possibly the worst of all possible things is Colossus AI/pathing near mineral patches.

I mean another thing about the Colossus/prism thing is scouting it and reacting. A 15 nex into quick robo isn't totally unreasonable, and it's hard to distinguish from quick colossus with lances unless you actually see the warp prism. I'd be very surprised if (assuming no allins happen) the ColossusShip fails to do damage.

yes the first drop SHOULD do damage of at least 3-5 scvs every time as well as force scv transfer. after that, the ball is mostly in the terran's court to defend it, but this also removes his units from the map to do effectively for a few minutes. and that's all a protoss could ever hope for

Trusty

New Zealand520 Posts

January 03 2012 21:53 GMT

#118

Would it still be worth getting ColloRange, if you're only going to make 1-3 collosus? (Purely from a harassment point of view).

I find once a viking is out, I'm no longer doing big damage, and more just keeping a handful of marines in his base, instead of on the map.... does the range really help?

Alejandrisha

United States6565 Posts

January 03 2012 21:57 GMT

#119

On January 04 2012 06:53 Trusty wrote:
Would it still be worth getting ColloRange, if you're only going to make 1-3 collosus? (Purely from a harassment point of view).

I find once a viking is out, I'm no longer doing big damage, and more just keeping a handful of marines in his base, instead of on the map.... does the range really help?

absolutely! they can out range marauders and you have 3 more pixels to harass scvs that are running away. the vikings also have to fly that much farther to hit you :D

a 6 range colossus is ok for the surprise factor, but as soon as they see you drop it afterwards and it has 6 range, they just run away and your colossus does a derp dance and doesn't fire a lot of the time

range just makes it so much deadlier! and non-ranged colossus later when you engage are just terrible against standard composition

Sphen5117

United States413 Posts

January 03 2012 22:09 GMT

#120

Of course I am impressed by the build, but I'm even more impressed by you making up a verb "maynard", and making it sound like it makes sense the first time I hear it. Kudos, sir.