EPTTvP 3-1-2 build. - Page 5
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Gecko
United States519 Posts
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Deleted User 47542
1484 Posts
On September 02 2010 04:56 Yaotzin wrote: Was 850+ P before I switched to random and autolose every time I get T :D Not that such things matter imo. I guess I just don't really see the point of an expanding/not fully committing version of this build. Banshee is strong because it counters the usual P army makeup. If you don't really commit to it though the P should hold it off even if caught by surprise with a poor army composition (first replay the guy has 3 immortals and still holds...). You can semi-recover with the expo, but you lose your best timing window (before templar tech is done), and you've dumped resources into, imo, dead-end tech (2 starports, cloak). P should go on to win from there. Like any all-in strat you can moderate it, but then why start out with an all-in build? Or do you think banshee/rine is a strong army composition even if P knows it's coming? Uh, dead tech? Nowhere in the build does it say to get cloak(though if there is no robo, getting it is good of course). Two starports are dead tech? Last I checked medivacs are very useful units toi have. Stop theorycrafting that it's all-in, you're basically saying almost any strategy is all-in, transitioning is easy. Try out the strat yourself and you'll be amazed to see that you still have excess minerals when producing from all 6 structures. Once armies engage and you lose food, you will have enough for a CC since you can stop hellion/supply depot production while continuing to build banshees/marines if you choose so. On September 02 2010 05:03 Gecko wrote: I watched some of your replays and i have yet to see you play a toss who was actually good, so im not really impressed. in the fast HT replay he wasted his gas on immortals and early HT tech, while floating 800 minerals... the dude was just awful. That floated money and gas wasted on his retarded tech could of been used on zealots, stalkers and sentires to deal with this. He's a 1.1k toss, he could probably trash you. The reason I know you have no clue what your talking about is because his strategy is smart, just a little sloppy in execution. He uses the quick warp prison to keep terran in base a bit, while expanding and eventually using high templars to defend the counter attack. My attack just hit maybe 30 seconds sooner then he would have wanted it to, and his multitasking was pretty bad but that's how its going to be for almost all non pro gamers. All my replays are vs 850+ diamond tosses I think, and this is a strategy guide, which means I'm expecting lower, not higher level players to play around with it. No shit I'm not going to be playing top of the line pros, and that's not what this build is meant for. | ||
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roymarthyup
1442 Posts
most toss will be going mostly for a ground based army. banshees cost for cost shred all stalkers because 2 stalkers is 250min 100gas, 1 banshee 2 marines is 250min 100gas and will decimate that protoss mix. if the toss gets HTs for storm who cares. cloaks best function is reducing banshee energy to avoid feedback damage | ||
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bearpole
Canada3 Posts
On September 01 2010 15:07 superbabosheki wrote: The first raven nullfies all stalkers, ... Can you tell me why this is? Turrets? Sorry... help me out here. | ||
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Gecko
United States519 Posts
On September 02 2010 05:07 superbabosheki wrote: He's a 1.1k toss, he could probably trash you. The reason I know you have no clue what your talking about is because his strategy is smart, just a little sloppy in execution. He uses the quick warp prison to keep terran in base a bit, while expanding and eventually using high templars to defend the counter attack. My attack just hit maybe 30 seconds sooner then he would have wanted it to, and his multitasking was pretty bad but that's how its going to be for almost all non pro gamers. All my replays are vs 850+ diamond tosses I think, and this is a strategy guide, which means I'm expecting lower, not higher level players to play around with it. No shit I'm not going to be playing top of the line pros, and that's not what this build is meant for. Don't get so defensive, i was simply being blunt and stating that thing could of gone differently every game. Alot of those guys had a paltry force at the 8.5 minute mark when you pushed out and had bad unit compositions. And no, 1base HT+ immortals is a terrible, terrible idea. You cannot support that composition on one base. I don't see how pointing out flaws in your opponents gameplay makes me an idiot btw. EDIT: I guess what im trying to say is that If your testing this against people who are not very good at this game then you are getting skewed results. I never said this build you've created was not viable, just that it needed to be tested further. Please don't shit on me and call me an idiot for trying to give feedback. I never insulted you i just tried to pick apart your build and give feedback on what i thought. Why would anyone who is creating a build not want feedback lol, its what makes your build better in the long run. | ||
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cr4ckshot
United States291 Posts
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Gecko
United States519 Posts
On September 02 2010 05:20 bearpole wrote: Can you tell me why this is? Turrets? Sorry... help me out here. Ravens can make a point defense drone that negates stalker attacks for a short amount of timed. That way the banshees are defended from the stalkers while you kill them. | ||
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Chunkybuddha
Canada347 Posts
On September 02 2010 05:26 Gecko wrote: ???????????????????????Don't get so defensive, i was simply being blunt and stating that thing could of gone differently every game. I guess what im trying to say is that If your testing this against people who are not very good at this game then you are getting skewed results. I never said this build you've created was not viable, just that it needed to be tested further. Please don't shit on me and call me an idiot for trying to give feedback. I never insulted you i just tried to pick apart your build and give feedback on what i thought. Why would anyone who is creating a build not want feedback lol, its what makes your build better in the long run. Anyway, I have been laddering with this build last night, and all morning .. with moderate success! And in custom games I even got away with this against zerg lol, 3 port FTW - but that's against noobs so  I'm only 800 points, so I have a question for you. Why do you not research cloak every match up? Is it not viable after 1k? The obs always goes down, yes even when he has a large army... I always end up with a surplus of gas anyway, unless I build a second Raven but that fucks things up, so I burn it off with research. The cloak doesn't finish in time for the first attack, but if you attack and end up even, you have cloak now, you should win the second battle fairly easy, especially with cloak + pdd, you'll have a few free kills before you take any damage. I haven't lost because of cloak yet, so that is why I ask. | ||
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Deleted User 47542
1484 Posts
On September 02 2010 06:26 Chunkybuddha wrote: Hi superbab. First of all, I am laughing with you at all these guys saying all-in or some of their comments clearly shows they don't know what theory is... Do they play sc or...? Prime example is right above me : + Show Spoiler + On September 02 2010 05:26 Gecko wrote: ???????????????????????Don't get so defensive, i was simply being blunt and stating that thing could of gone differently every game. I guess what im trying to say is that If your testing this against people who are not very good at this game then you are getting skewed results. I never said this build you've created was not viable, just that it needed to be tested further. Please don't shit on me and call me an idiot for trying to give feedback. I never insulted you i just tried to pick apart your build and give feedback on what i thought. Why would anyone who is creating a build not want feedback lol, its what makes your build better in the long run. Anyway, I have been laddering with this build last night, and all morning .. with moderate success! And in custom games I even got away with this against zerg lol, 3 port FTW - but that's against noobs so I'm only 800 points, so I have a question for you. Why do you not research cloak every match up? Is it not viable after 1k? The obs always goes down, yes even when he has a large army... I always end up with a surplus of gas anyway, unless I build a second Raven but that fucks things up, so I burn it off with research. The cloak doesn't finish in time for the first attack, but if you attack and end up even, you have cloak now, you should win the second battle fairly easy, especially with cloak + pdd, you'll have a few free kills before you take any damage. I haven't lost because of cloak yet, so that is why I ask. Cloak is more of an option that certainly is viable but 200/200 is quite an investment. I think cloak is actually really strong if you choose to expo rather than continue to pump units, since it will force protoss to stay in base even longer and pump out at least two more observers(100/200) to cover his main and natural. It's a strong choice, and easily justified if you choose whether or not to get it. | ||
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lim1017
Canada1278 Posts
i lose 1/2 my units and end up behind if i ever try to go up their ramp... | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
Shat all over him. He had like 4 stalkers, 2-3 immortals, and 2 zeals vs 3 maruder 4-5 rhines 2 hellion and 2 banshee, cloak at end of battle Got expo up and just kept pumping. Ungodly easy strat esp with no early abuse | ||
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MingoDynasty
United States43 Posts
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tetramaster
Canada253 Posts
Unless I can get some early pressure on and force you to commit to getting more marauders before that damned raven+banshee come out, or perhaps snipe the raven (luck, or perhaps phoenixes early), it'll be very much a very bad uphill battle. Any hints on BEATING this? | ||
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iAmJeffReY
United States4262 Posts
BO? He says it in first post. its normal 9 supply 12 rax 13 gas 15 orbital marine maruder then fac when gas allows... he spells it out in the first post if you read it | ||
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MingoDynasty
United States43 Posts
On September 02 2010 07:33 iAmJeffReY wrote: Ah I knew I forgot something. It was the raven. My first attack wouldve been GG with 1 PDD. I love the strat. BO? He says it in first post. its normal 9 supply 12 rax 13 gas 15 orbital marine maruder then fac when gas allows... he spells it out in the first post if you read it Um, he doesn't spell it out at all. He just gives general timings of what to build and when. | ||
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Deleted User 47542
1484 Posts
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vontz
22 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On September 02 2010 05:03 Gecko wrote: I watched some of your replays and i have yet to see you play a toss who was actually good, so im not really impressed. in the fast HT replay he wasted his gas on immortals and early HT tech, while floating 800 minerals... the dude was just awful. That floated money and gas wasted on his retarded tech could of been used on zealots, stalkers and sentires to deal with this. If you notice every possible question the OP is countered with there is a "THIS BUILD BEATS ALL!" response. So I wouldn't take anything he says seriously until the build is shown to be viable vs top tier competition. Classic case of a build being called good because it works on people who aren't that good. | ||
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ayababa
Australia347 Posts
how would this fair against a 4 gate though? Protoss seam to overwhelm me with a crazy amount of units every time. I know your have a raven, but it only stops 10 shots.. mass stalkers would get through that pretty quick. | ||
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Deleted User 47542
1484 Posts
On September 02 2010 08:17 Ace wrote: If you notice every possible question the OP is countered with there is a "THIS BUILD BEATS ALL!" response. So I wouldn't take anything he says seriously until the build is shown to be viable vs top tier competition. Classic case of a build being called good because it works on people who aren't that good. Or the fact that I get reponses that make no sense such as templar rushes. I already know that strong midfield or pheonix play is strong vs this build, and I stated it was a agressive way to scout and expand while attacking. | ||
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