• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
TeamLiquid Liquipedia LiquidDota LiquidLegends
EDT 19:25
CEST 01:25
KST 08:25
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code A Season 2 - Day 3 Preview (2021)10TSL7 - Week 2 - Order or Chaos?11Code A Season 2 - Day 2 Preview (2021)5Pole Position: 4 Top Contenders at TSL 712Code A Season 2 - Day 1 Preview2
Community News
GSL Season 2 - Code A concludes, Code S groups determined2Charity - Cheese Out Cancer10The Biggest Loser - Loser Takes None* Tournament42PSL Brood War Invitational #112Code A - RagnaroK upsets Cure, sOs & Dark advance14
StarCraft 2
General
GSL Season 2 - Code A concludes, Code S groups determined Who will win TeamLiquid Starleague 7? Greatest SC2 Protoss player of all-time? Team Liquid Map Contest #15 [TSL 7] Shopify's True or False with TLO, Week 2
Tourneys
The Biggest Loser - Loser Takes None* Tournament [EPT 2021-22] ESL Open Cups NeXT 2021 Season 1 SC2 Masters 2021 NA Apprentice Season 3 [Alpha Pro Series] Astrea vs KeeN
Strategy
Terran LotV builds EASY Beginner Zerg Build Order Guide [2021] Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] SC2Reminder - A reminding helper
Custom Maps
[M] (4) Nautilus SC2 Desert strike [M] (4) Spark [F](2)Pride of Altaris
External Content
Mutation # 270 Cremation The StarCraft Observer Podcast Episode #6 Mutation # 269 The Ultimate Price Mutation # 268 Rumble in the Jungle
Brood War
General
State of BW in Korea, sponsoring, crowdfunding etc BW General Discussion Khala v Scan | Dreamer v TTF: Friday June 25 Goons vs M&M micro map Did you see BSL 12 Finals? They were amazing.
Tourneys
STARCRAFT WORST MAP FREE FOR ALL CHAMPIONSHIP BWCL Season 53 starts the 2nd of May! [CNSL S4]CasterMuse Narak StarLeague Season 4 Deathfate Duel Series 7: TerrOr vs Gosudark
Strategy
Why does flash play terran. [Micro Map] Valkyrie vs. Carrier Arena 1.0 Valkyrie dmg formula? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
Heroes of the Storm
[HotS] Unofficial World Championship (Part 1) HotS: WP and Funny Moments [HotS] Korean Final Boss: FiSH Bowl Heroes League Patch 54.0: Globes, Loans and Tons of Reworks New Feature: Loan Talents
General Games
Cyberpunk 2077 EVE Corporation Genshin Impact - Coop RPG The PlayStation 5 The XBox Thread
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread British Empire Mini Mafia
Hearthstone
Is Hearthstone Gambling?
LoL General
LoL Tournaments
LoL Strategy
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Mexico's Drug War European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Coronavirus and You The Big Programming Thread
Fan Clubs
The Scarlett Fan Club NaNiwa Fan Club! GuMiho Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Dragon Ball Super Discussion [TV] HBO Game of Thrones
Sports
2020 - 2021 Football Thread NBA General Discussion Formula1 2019 NHL 21: Tony DeActivito Did Nazi That Coming UFC/MMA Discussion Thread
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread The Ultimate Mouse Thread How do I list my stream on tl.net?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Ask TL Staff Anything
Blogs
Heading North - A Pacific Cres…
Tak3r
Some thoughts about …
waywardstrategy
2021: Who to watch in CSGO…
Ragnarork
MH2 Prerelease Recap…
TheRealNanMan
Dragoon Sweet Tart
BigFan
The StarCraft O…
TheStarCraftObserver
Post Malone Remix
WindOw
A decade of Starcraft 2: 201…
Nakajin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1396 users

TvP 3-1-2 build.

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 14 15 16 Next All
superbabosheki
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States1466 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-13 06:28:52
September 01 2010 06:07 GMT
#1
Background
Alright this guide will teach you the art of one base play, and more importantly a very useful build to add to your arsenal. This is a 1 marine 3 marauder 1 hellion poke that transitions into an army built from a total of 3 raxes, 2 starports, 1 factory. This idea was taken partly from TLO but is a build I have refined quite a bit.

First Poke
The first "poke" comes in the early game. This is very similar to the 1 marine, two marauder, 1 reaper play, however this consists of 1 marine, 3 marauders, and 1 hellion at around the exact same timing.

This simple poke in with 5 units can end the game many times vs a greedy protoss, but it will at the very least let you know exactly what you're opponent is up to(by seeing what he is defending with). Watch replay or try it yourself to see just how effective it can be.

Transition
This build starts off as a 1-1-1, where you build 1 rax(marine then techlab), one factory, than one starport when money allows. After you're 3rd marauder pops out as part of the early poke-in, throw down a starport, then two more raxes(you should be attacking at this point w/ your inital 5 units).

Begin a raven asap, throwdown a second starport when raven is around 30-50% done, then a techlab onto the factory. Around this time your initial 5 units will either be dead, near dead, or have won you the game.

Push
After the 5 unit poke-in is finished you should now be at 3 raxes, 2 starports, and 1 factory , as well as having a raven out or almost out. Because terran is imbalanced, you can actually support all 6 buildings, so just start to pump out triple marine, double banshee, and single hellion.

When your two banshees pop out, it is time to push. Usually this two banshee, one raven, mass marine, and a pinch of hellions will win you the game if you do it right(until higher diamond at least). A well placed pdd will make it impossible for him to engage you. The only weakness to this first push is that you want to engage protoss at his base to make the pdd really strong, an open field will just allow toss to retreat. Waiting for 4 banshees will result in a much larger push and is a smarter idea in some circumstances.

What to do after

Two choices, either expand while attacking, or just continue to rally more units, either is very viable. If you choose to expand build another raven to lock down your natural to future counter attack. If you choose to just continue to rally, your goal should be to plant down a point-defense-drone at his ramp so you can bust it(he will be forced to fall back from it).

Why this is strong.
In one sentence. You are producing out of SIX structures relatively early in the game, your army count will be ridiculously high.

The first raven nullfies all stalkers, as well as allows you to snipe observers/defend dt rushes.

Let's do a little theory crafting here. Gateway units that shoot up are sentries and stalkers. Sentries have very little dps are are support units in general, whereas stalkers can't do anything about early game pdd(due to the low unit count). Zealots have a ton of hp and do a ton of damage, but with marines and hellions a little bit of scoot and shoot micro can melt them pretty quickly. Immortals aren't too big of a problem because you are not making a single armoured ground unit.

This build even defeats void rays with relative ease for three reasons. One being that you are massing marines. Two being that this means he has a weak gateway army making it nearly impossible for stalkers to even hit the banshees(due to pdd) and hellions will be there to take care of zealots. Three being the fact that if you scout or think there is an early stargate, you have two starports ready to pump vikings(same response to phoenix).

When you should use this build.
Because this build starts off with the standard 10 sup, 12 rax, 13 gas, 15 orbital, you will be able to scout your opponent before deciding whether or not you want to use it. Close positions or two player maps are good choices.

Does it really work?
I'm a 1.1k diamond terran and have been using this almost exclusively on the ladder, I can say I am winning about 80% of my TvPs with it. Try it yourself and see! Also played two 800+ diamond protosses on the CEVO tournament and went 4-0 with it there.

Build Order
Near perfect timing vs a bronze noob!
From this replay note the following timings:
-hellion catching up to your poke force
-concussive finishes just as you are about to attack
-raven finishes just as second starport is going into the add-on
-3 rax 1 fact 2 port production begins with a good flow
+ Show Spoiler +

-10 Supply Depot
-12 Barracks
-13 Gas
-15 Orbital Command Center
-16 Marine
-16 Supply Depot
-16 Tech Lab
-19 Marauder
-Factory
-Refinery
-Marauder
-Supply <-VERY IMPORTANT DEPOT, YOU MISS THIS YOU GET NO HELLION!
-Marauder
-Concussive
-Hellion <- ITS POKE TIME!

Then in this order, not including supply depots/units.
-Starport
-Rax
-Rax
-Starport
-Techlab(on factory to be added to second port)




Replays

I'll add more later.
epic fail first raven push, but still won one-sidely
Scrap station, no poke due to distance, but same idea, open field pdd.
xel naga, no poke due to early aggression, caught off guard by voids, VERY UNREFINED HERE
5 unit poke auto win vs 1 gate robo on steps
1.1k diamond protoss, fast templar attempt fail, CROSS POSITION METALOPOLIS
Lose everything to 3 gate robo+stargate, no problem.
1k toss, gaining advantage with poke
1k diamond toss, all-in w/ scvs


2-1-3 w fast CC

3-1-2 vs 1.2k toss
3-1-2 vs 1.2k toss, good use of templar/micro to beat it
3-1-2 vs 1k diamond, no poke due to agression
long game vs 1.4k toss
tetramaster
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada253 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-01 06:14:11
September 01 2010 06:13 GMT
#2
inb4 everyone else starts screaming OMG TERRAN IS IMBA (but ugh, yikes, I'm going to hate seeing this crap on the ladder on short distance maps)

I'm...really not sure what the hell I'd do against this. One base collosus might work, but that's a pretty big 'might', seeing as ravens null stalkers, which would deal with the banshees. That would come down to micro big time on the 'toss part.
threehundred
Profile Joined July 2009
Canada877 Posts
September 01 2010 06:14 GMT
#3
i like the poke idea. i've been playing 1-1-1 too lately and need some sort of poke indeed
KimTaeyeon MEDIC MU fighting! ^^;;
Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
16833 Posts
September 01 2010 06:16 GMT
#4
Just a quick clarification:

The add-ons on the buildings are one tech lab on barracks, and two tech labs on the starports, right? Nothing else?
Moderator
superbabosheki
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States1466 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-01 06:17:57
September 01 2010 06:17 GMT
#5
On September 01 2010 15:16 Empyrean wrote:
Just a quick clarification:

The add-ons on the buildings are one tech lab on barracks, and two tech labs on the starports, right? Nothing else?


The tech lab on the rax get's used for the starport since you stop marauder production. You should have a total of two tech labs from 6 buildings(the second being build on the factory to be swapped into the 2nd starport).
Eeeegor
Profile Joined April 2005
Australia646 Posts
September 01 2010 06:23 GMT
#6
Interesting - will have to try this on ladder tonight!
Day9 Made Me Do It
DreXxiN
Profile Joined July 2010
United States454 Posts
September 01 2010 06:24 GMT
#7
..This sounds scary against EVERYTHING!
Eeeegor
Profile Joined April 2005
Australia646 Posts
September 01 2010 06:27 GMT
#8
Thinking about it more - I like the idea of expanding after your first real push (not the poke), and throwing add-ons onto the buildings. A quick way to bring your production up to spend the extra money from the expo... interesting!
Day9 Made Me Do It
panda_inc
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Australia170 Posts
September 01 2010 06:57 GMT
#9
sound like the only way to beat this is sneaking up a hidden early gas expo while fending off early poke off 1 chrono gate - 3 warp gate, then rushing HTs or Carriers
superbabosheki
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States1466 Posts
September 01 2010 07:44 GMT
#10
On September 01 2010 15:57 panda_inc wrote:
sound like the only way to beat this is sneaking up a hidden early gas expo while fending off early poke off 1 chrono gate - 3 warp gate, then rushing HTs or Carriers

Whattttt? It's a strong build but not unbeatable. Just standard play with good defense and knowledge of the build will beat it or good phoenix/sentry play.
TyrantPotato
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Australia1449 Posts
September 01 2010 07:49 GMT
#11
sounds liek a strong build. if it is as successful as it sounds then maybe it'll reduce the amount of mmmg games i see these days
Forever ZeNEX.
Chunkybuddha
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada347 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-01 07:57:07
September 01 2010 07:56 GMT
#12
Oooo thank you thank you. I always do this two starport build, but I had no idea how to use it as well as you do. MOAR REPLAYS PUHLEZZ

Edit: I wish the standard post was laid out like yours is, shoot very ez to read. Good post.
USER WAS SEXUALLY ABUSED FOR THIS POST.
Kiante
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Australia6612 Posts
September 01 2010 08:00 GMT
#13
Sounds like storm could wreck your day. What would be your response if you scouted a P rushing for psi storm?

also 6 structures off 1 base? all in
Writer
superbabosheki
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States1466 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-01 08:27:54
September 01 2010 08:01 GMT
#14
On September 01 2010 16:56 Chunkybuddha wrote:
Oooo thank you thank you. I always do this two starport build, but I had no idea how to use it as well as you do. MOAR REPLAYS PUHLEZZ

Edit: I wish the standard post was laid out like yours is, shoot very ez to read. Good post.

I didn't save my replays T_T have to actually play games to get new reps up. I have a few from minerva/cevo but that was b4 I refined it into the 5 unit poke->1 raven timing push->transition.

TY though =]

On September 01 2010 17:00 Kiante wrote:
Sounds like storm could wreck your day. What would be your response if you scouted a P rushing for psi storm?

also 6 structures off 1 base? all in

It is impossible to get to storm without dying to the 1 raven 2 banshee push, plus what kind of protoss would blindly rush for templar(which would mean no robo). So if I did scout a P rushing for psi storm I would do a barrel roll.

It's not all in there is an expand timing if you read the thread. Not to mention that 3 rax 1 fact rine/hellion costs only 250/0 per cycle(very freaking cheap), and banshees take forever to build at 300/200 per cycle. Unit cost wise its cheaper than a protoss going 3 gate robo, do the math.
whiteguycash
Profile Joined April 2010
United States472 Posts
September 01 2010 08:02 GMT
#15
I'll watch the replays, but I think a 12gate cyber with another gate constantly pumping should be enough to stop the initial poke, and depending on the timing of the initial push, for a defending protoss, a FE might be feasable with constant zealot/stalker production to defend. It just comes down to being able to keep the raven from getting off PDD. If the protoss player could hold off your push, he would be way ahead in terms of economy. although, your banshees might prove trouble with cloak.
frogmelter
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States964 Posts
September 01 2010 08:08 GMT
#16
How does this build do against the kcdc fast expand build?
TL+ Member
StorrZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States13616 Posts
September 01 2010 08:13 GMT
#17
On September 01 2010 17:08 frogmelter wrote:
How does this build do against the kcdc fast expand build?


I think defending the initial push wouldn't be that big of a problem, when the second push comes it really dependent on the toss to be actively scouting, any pressure from the toss that forces the raven to waste its energy before the toss choke and the push fails. The more time you give toss the better toss is going to be imo. passive toss will get owned. i don't know if you get robo after 3 warp gate (if the obs comes in time) to spot the push.
Hwaseung Oz fan for life. Swing out, always swing out.
superbabosheki
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States1466 Posts
September 01 2010 08:15 GMT
#18
On September 01 2010 17:02 whiteguycash wrote:
I'll watch the replays, but I think a 12gate cyber with another gate constantly pumping should be enough to stop the initial poke, and depending on the timing of the initial push, for a defending protoss, a FE might be feasable with constant zealot/stalker production to defend. It just comes down to being able to keep the raven from getting off PDD. If the protoss player could hold off your push, he would be way ahead in terms of economy. although, your banshees might prove trouble with cloak.

You do realize the poke is a POKE not a way to win the game. If the protoss holds it off it doesn't matter, the whole purpose is really just a "technical" scouting force with the possibility to do some good damage. If its defended by only gateway units terran will know that toss went 2 gate before robo or stargate. if its defended by a fast immortal terran will know toss went 1 gate robo, etc.

You can't FE vs this with only zealots on stalkers. A PDD on your natural will be an automatic gg, while marine/hellions kite your zels. Unit count will be too low to defend first raven push.

nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria7069 Posts
September 01 2010 08:18 GMT
#19
I have faced this a lot lately like every single terran does this lol(BTW shouldn't this be 3/1/2???).I open phoenixes all my pvt-s so it's kind of easier to handle though .The only thing that is really problematic here is that even if terran is making vikings the tech labs have the same glow as if it is upgrading so you always have to assume he is getting cloack :/.
Piy
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Scotland3152 Posts
September 01 2010 08:20 GMT
#20
On September 01 2010 17:15 superbabosheki wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2010 17:02 whiteguycash wrote:
I'll watch the replays, but I think a 12gate cyber with another gate constantly pumping should be enough to stop the initial poke, and depending on the timing of the initial push, for a defending protoss, a FE might be feasable with constant zealot/stalker production to defend. It just comes down to being able to keep the raven from getting off PDD. If the protoss player could hold off your push, he would be way ahead in terms of economy. although, your banshees might prove trouble with cloak.

You do realize the poke is a POKE not a way to win the game. If the protoss holds it off it doesn't matter, the whole purpose is really just a "technical" scouting force with the possibility to do some good damage. If its defended by only gateway units terran will know that toss went 2 gate before robo or stargate. if its defended by a fast immortal terran will know toss went 1 gate robo, etc.

You can't FE vs this with only zealots on stalkers. A PDD on your natural will be an automatic gg, while marine/hellions kite your zels. Unit count will be too low to defend first raven push.



That'd not his point. If you push towards protoss and force them to either back off or use a pdd the major threat of this build is nullified.

Not saying it's a bad build or anything, but that's something to bear in mind with your execution.
My. Copy. Is. Here.
1 2 3 4 5 14 15 16 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
ESL Pro Tour
23:00
Americas Open Cup #76
SteadfastSC150
Golden45
BadBorz14
GgfOu2
[Ris3n]Renegade1
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PartinGtheBigBoy 739
JimRising 630
IndyStarCraft 255
Forgg! 207
UpATree 180
Rex 75
JuggernautJason71
NonY 60
ProTech50
Golden 45
EnDerr 4
StarCraft: Brood War
Terrorterran 109
Shinee 75
Sexy 28
Heroes of the Storm
Grubby2539
Counter-Strike: Global Offensive
XANTAREScN6527
tarik_tv1937
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox13635
Other Games
ToD420
gobbtv171
Trikslyr130
hades_tv8
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1624
ESL1285
Counter-Strike: Global Offensive
ESL CS:GO1126
StarCraft 2
ESL.tv389
OGamingTV SC2 184
Blizzard YouTube
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• rockletztv 73
• Hupsaiya 31
• CammyGreen 1
• AlphaB_SC2
• Migwel
• Laughngamez YouTube
• LaughNgamez Trovo
• IndyKCrew
• Alpha X_
• Kozan
• Gussbus
• intothetv
• aXEnki
• AweesomeSauce
SC2: Legacy of the Void
• KarlJayG
• PSISTORM Gaming
StarCraft: Brood War
• sscaitournament2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
Upcoming Events
StarCraft BJ Destructio…
10h 35m
WardiTV Summer Champion…
14h 35m
MaxPax vs MaNa
uThermal vs Bly
BWCL
18h 35m
Red vs [eF]
StarCraft BJ Destructio…
1d 10h
Queen's Gambit
1d 17h
Showmatch
1d 17h
Reynor vs Clem
Elazer vs MaxPax
HeRoMaRinE vs Lambo
uThermal vs ShoWTimE
Astrea vs Neeb
Alpha Pro Series
2 days
Astrea vs KeeN
Challenge Wars
2 days
HeRoMaRinE vs Clem
MaxPax vs Lambo
ShoWTimE vs Neeb
Elazer vs souL
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
3 days
StarCraft BJ Destructio…
3 days
[ Show More ]
ArchonX
3 days
Solar vs ByuN & TY
Challenge Wars
3 days
Theleo-ua Showmatch Ser…
3 days
by.maru vs Scan
Dreamer vs TTF
ASL11 Revenge Battle
4 days
hero vs Snow
StarCraft BJ Destructio…
4 days
Russian Cyber Games
4 days
Shopify TSL 7
4 days
New Worlds Map Contest:…
4 days
Tech vs vOddy
Sziky vs UltrA
Hawk vs OyAji
Dandy vs Dewalt
ESL Pro Tour
5 days
Russian Cyber Games
5 days
Shopify TSL 7
5 days
ESL Pro Tour
6 days
ESL Pro Tour
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BW Jeez Weekly 114
DHM Summer: NA
Nexus Forces Tour.
BLAST Premier Spring Finals

Ongoing

CPL Season 7
Costa Rica SL 4
KCM Ladies Race Survival 2021 Season 2
KCM Race Survival 2021 Season 2
BWCL Season 53
Turf Wars Season 2
LPG Bolivia Season 1
MIT Chobo 2.0
MIT Gosu 2.0
TASL Season 2
CasterMuse Narak StarLeague Season 4
ESL ANZ Champs 2021 - Season 1
WTL 2021 Summer
TSL 7
NeXT 2021 S1
Community Clash League S2
Masters Clash Champ. 2021
Elisa Invitational Summer 2021
Spring Sweet Spring #3
ESEA S37 - NA Premier
ESEA S37 - EU Premier
ESEA S37 - AU Premier

Upcoming

BW Jeez Weekly 115
Deathfate Pro League 2
Alpha Omega Series: Dandy vs yabsab & Dewalt vs Ample
DDS 8: cRuZa vs Goku vs Conan vs Jhon
theleo_ua showmatch 7
RCG 2021
PSL Brood War Invitational #1
DH Masters Summer: Finals
2021 GSL S2: Code S
DreamHack Beyond
DreamHack Beyond Qual. 4
BLAST Premier Fall Groups
ESL Pro League Season 14
CBCS Elite League S2
IEM Cologne 2021
DH Open June 2021
Pinnacle Cup #2
StarLadder CIS RMR 2021
Gamers Without Borders 2021
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2021 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.