EPT
I like the initial push though with some tweaks. Just with a way way faster expansion.TvP 3-1-2 build. - Page 4
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VanGarde
Sweden755 Posts
I like the initial push though with some tweaks. Just with a way way faster expansion. | ||
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vizyn
4 Posts
The main issue I see with this is it would be difficult to get in time if you get on obs first in case of cloak. | ||
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n3mo
United States298 Posts
On September 02 2010 03:45 vizyn wrote: Any idea if HTs are a viable response to this? I don't mean storm, but using feedback on the PDD (will 1-shot it), the raven, the banshees might be useful... then merging archon to help with the marines? The main issue I see with this is it would be difficult to get in time if you get on obs first in case of cloak. i haven't tried this, but i have this feeling that getting HT fast enough to do that leaves you with very little in the way of an army, in which case the PDD doesn't really do anything =P thanks for the insight OP! i'll give it a shot next time i play. | ||
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TheFinalWord
Australia790 Posts
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Deleted User 47542
1484 Posts
On September 02 2010 03:43 VanGarde wrote: Definately seems strong in early game and early midgame. But its very all in'ish. Most protoss one bases their way through every TvP and personally I just hate to lower myself to that I like the initial push though with some tweaks. Just with a way way faster expansion.Why do people keep saying it is all-in. As soon as you're two banshees pop out you have a PERFECT opportunity to expand if you choose to, as you are expanding while attacking. Not to mention 3 rax and 1 fact marine/hellion are VERY LOW COST, and you can transition to maruders/tanks from there. Thanks for all the positive comments though =] | ||
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
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Deleted User 47542
1484 Posts
On September 02 2010 03:59 Yaotzin wrote: What toss doesn't get a robo in response to a 1-1-1 Terran? What does that have to do with anything? Raven nullifies the first obs, immortals are useless vs all 3 units that are being produced, and collosus is very costly only to get shot down by either ravens or vikings. | ||
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PlagueRat
United States39 Posts
Maintain presence of midfield if a pdd is going off you want it midfield lol Either move to storms or collosus, becuase this guy is probally spamming as much as trash as he can off 1 base. Hope you have enough multitask to fend off the banshees who he will inevitably swing around, its always good to be pressuring so he has to use his banshees to stay alive. Wouldnt it be a dream world if toss could grab every tech building like that and still beable to afford a deadly mix of units rofl CHeapen toss tech!! | ||
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TheFinalWord
Australia790 Posts
On September 02 2010 04:01 superbabosheki wrote: What does that have to do with anything? Raven nullifies the first obs, immortals are useless vs all 3 units that are being produced, and collosus is very costly only to get shot down by either ravens or vikings. How does the second push correspond to fast collosi? I would think that would be a problem wouldn't it? | ||
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smore
United States156 Posts
he gets 2nd gas relatively early to get cloak and his first banshee as soon as he get his starport up. he then transitions by getting 1 more starport and 2 more barracks and spamming marines and banshees he mainly uses the factory just to scout out the protoss (its basically an autowin if the protoss doesnt have a robo or cannons/forge) this is strong 1base play and it seems you could probably get an expo up if you just cut a few rounds of marines im glad the OP wrote this up as it seems like tanks vs chargelots are gonna be a problem next patch...and this is what the terran need to develop solid builds for other people to branch off from. there are some replays of hyperdub's TvP posted on sc2rep.com (posted on 8-30) | ||
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Deleted User 47542
1484 Posts
On September 02 2010 04:01 PlagueRat wrote: 4-gate, force the pdd at mid field, expand. Maintain presence of midfield if a pdd is going off you want it midfield lol Either move to storms or collosus, becuase this guy is probally spamming as much as trash as he can off 1 base. Hope you have enough multitask to fend off the banshees who he will inevitably swing around, its always good to be pressuring so he has to use his banshees to stay alive. Wouldnt it be a dream world if toss could grab every tech building like that and still beable to afford a deadly mix of units rofl CHeapen toss tech!! Why would toss do a blind 4 gate, that Terran will be able to scout it while the Protoss will be left guessing due to no robo . Let's just keep listing blind ways to defeat it that is not going to happen in an in-game situation. It's an OPENING like the FD in brood war where you expand while pressuring unless you feel confident that rallyed units will win you the game. On September 02 2010 04:03 TheFinalWord wrote: How does the second push correspond to fast collosi? I would think that would be a problem wouldn't it? Fast collo as in a 1 gate colo rush? The initial poke will be pretty suspicious if only one gateways worth of units is defending it, and will have a good chance of outright winning. Not to mention there will be a very low gateway unit count, so banshees can target fire down the colli really quickly(they are pretty squishy units). Thermal lance won't be anywhere near done so microing the colli won't be easy as well. | ||
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
On September 02 2010 03:57 superbabosheki wrote: Why do people keep saying it is all-in. Poor transitions. If the first push fails against someone competent you should lose. As soon as you're two banshees pop out you have a PERFECT opportunity to expand if you choose to. 4gate can expand too, anything can. Expanding doesn't stop something being all-in. Not to mention 3 rax and 1 fact marine/hellion are VERY LOW COST, and you can transition to maruders/tanks from there. That part is pretty low cost, but the starports and banshees aren't. You HAVE to deal significant damage or you die, as with any all-in. | ||
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Deleted User 47542
1484 Posts
On September 02 2010 04:07 Yaotzin wrote: Poor transitions. If the first push fails against someone competent you should lose. 4gate can expand too, anything can. Expanding doesn't stop something being all-in. That part is pretty low cost, but the starports and banshees aren't. You HAVE to deal significant damage or you die, as with any all-in. You do realize that you can just lift starports and begin medivac/marauder production? 4 gate expand isn't all-in if you contain your terran opponent at his ramp, in fact its a good strategy as long as toss doesn't over-commit to it. This doesn't have to do significant damage at all if you put up a fast CC. Even if the push fails, not miserably since it will at the very least take out a large number of protoss units, P will want to stay in base and build stalker/observer in case of cloak banshees. One raven and 1-2 bunkers at the terrans natural will make it perfectly safe to move onto two base play. Are you another platinum nooby or am I arguing with someone who at least knows what he's talking about? All-in means if it fails you lose, which is not the case when you are building a CC after first 2 banshees pop. I hope you don't think all the people on the asian player are all-in players, one base builds are very common and they transition just fine from them. | ||
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roymarthyup
1442 Posts
but being even with a 4gate is definitely nice. also its awesome when a toss gets HT against banshee because it cuts down his stalker numbers and 1 banshee easily kills a stalker 1vs1 and with cloak you can drain the banshee energy constantly so feedback does no damage to your banshees a terran army with banshee support just destroys a toss ground army | ||
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Wolf
Korea (South)3290 Posts
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Champ24
177 Posts
Hit me up for some test runs if you want. Champ.499 | ||
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muffley
United States280 Posts
As such, I've started opening 2 rax expand, to ~6 (still fiddling with this number) rax 4 starport. Either way, keeping your ravens alive is crucial to holding an advantage. | ||
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Deleted User 47542
1484 Posts
On September 02 2010 04:36 muffley wrote: Been doing this since phase 2 beta, it's really a good build. If they open pheonix you can be in a bit of trouble (they'll outnumber your vikings for some time), and they have an opportunity to early expand if they do that. Fast storm will wreck this pretty bad, if you're still on one base when that happens. As such, I've started opening 2 rax expand, to ~6 (still fiddling with this number) rax 4 starport. Either way, keeping your ravens alive is crucial to holding an advantage. Watch the newest replay I added, toss got super fast storm tech cross position on metalopolis. If you think he should skip a robo all together to rush for stom, I can just turtle in my base while researching cloak. | ||
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Gecko
United States519 Posts
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
On September 02 2010 04:13 superbabosheki wrote: Are you another platinum nooby or am I arguing with someone who at least knows what he's talking about? Was 850+ P before I switched to random and autolose every time I get T :D Not that such things matter imo. All-in means if it fails you lose, which is not the case when you are building a CC after first 2 banshees pop. I guess I just don't really see the point of an expanding/not fully committing version of this build. Banshee is strong because it counters the usual P army makeup. If you don't really commit to it though the P should hold it off even if caught by surprise with a poor army composition (first replay the guy has 3 immortals and still holds...). You can semi-recover with the expo, but you lose your best timing window (before templar tech is done), and you've dumped resources into, imo, dead-end tech (2 starports, cloak). P should go on to win from there. Like any all-in strat you can moderate it, but then why start out with an all-in build? Or do you think banshee/rine is a strong army composition even if P knows it's coming? | ||
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