I use 3 rax, 1 fact, 2 starports vs toss as my opening structures however I do it a bit differently.

I get two Rax, 1 tech lab before my factory(with lab) and starport, once my first starport is out I throw down my third rax and add a reactor to one of them. at some point I throw in my ghost lab and second starport.

I focus on heavy bio, with medivacs, tanks for support/securing positions.

Its very strong in my opinion and allows you to create tons of pressure consistently through out the game.

Deathtrooper

Canada38 Posts

September 01 2010 14:12 GMT

#42

Thank you for coming up with this build. I am currently having much trouble TvP. I will try this out for sure tonight. (I am in Diamond, all my losses are P)

MforWW

United States157 Posts

September 01 2010 14:22 GMT

#43

Great post OP. As usual, you'll have your idiot platinum players/know-it-alls who will come in this thread and say this build won't work for reason X or reason Y, but all things considered I'd have to say it sounds like a great build.

gillon

Sweden1578 Posts

September 01 2010 14:23 GMT

#44

On September 01 2010 21:51 Red Alert wrote:

Show nested quote +

the first attack IS the harass, dude. It's not all in at all.

How is 3 rax, 1 fact and 2 port constantly producing NOT an allin? Think of the follow through. And the frontal push most probably will never come close to effect of dropping 3 hellions one shotting heaps of probes.

Gnial

Canada907 Posts

September 01 2010 14:44 GMT

#45

Damn you!!!!

This build, at least the way you execute it, is scary as shit.

On the plus side, it gives me more of an excuse to do phoenix play - and who doesn't love phoenix play?

junemermaid

United States981 Posts

September 01 2010 14:52 GMT

#46

Ravens only nullify stalkers if hes playing at his choke, waiting to lose.. Any decent protoss player will not do that.

That said, this push is pretty strong, I've only seen replays of it and haven't experienced it

Plakk

Canada32 Posts

September 01 2010 15:55 GMT

#47

This push is so fkin scary. Ive personally experienced this and can say that you feel powerless when the unit composition hits you. I did 2gate robo expo into 3 gate robo thinking that a 2 immortal 8 stalker and handful of zealots with 1 sentry could hold this off. i was very very wrong.

Im not sure if you can fast expo vs this build. Can anyone comment on how to counter this build.

Phoenix play? 2 gate into blink stalker?

ganil

253 Posts

September 01 2010 16:15 GMT

#48

Fast templars (if you manage to do this) hard counter banshee/marines build.
You can buy time with colossus too. Marines will melt against them. The T must choose between producing banshees and vikings and no terran will like this.

Impervious

Canada4216 Posts

September 01 2010 16:27 GMT

#49

Just wondering, how much of an alteration will I need to make if I open 10 rax 10 depot 12 OC 13 refinery instead (my standard opening)? I like the idea of the build.

xCyan1de

United States64 Posts

September 01 2010 16:31 GMT

#50

Do you put reactors on the 3x rax and the factory? Also do you get any upgrades? (pre ignitor, combat shield, stim etc)

Acritter

Syria7637 Posts

September 01 2010 16:34 GMT

#51

Any replays of you losing? When (if) you lose, why do you lose? When you win, what do you think your opponents could have done better?

TheNomad

United States134 Posts

September 01 2010 16:38 GMT

#52

Yep I am 800ish diamond and I have been dominating with this in my TvP's. I frikin LOVE it. Another hidden tactic this transition from marauders to two port banshee is the fact that the opponent will scout 3 marauders + marine early and will possibly transition into immortal, which then you will proceed to roll him with marines and banshees.

roymarthyup

1442 Posts

September 01 2010 17:19 GMT

#53

the point of the poke is to force the toss to be getting units instead of teching or expanding too fast

any good toss will have enough units to beat your poke, but your poke will do damage to the toss and will let you scout slightly his build by sending in your hellion

in fact, by using that hellion to drive around his base for a while you can save a scan and the poke partly almost pays for itself cuz you get that 250 minerals from the mule instead of scanning

now every toss should beat back your poke if he is playing standard. i believe even 1gate stargate can beat back the poke with a void ray coming out shortly. but because you have mules and the toss doesnt that means you will outproduce the 1base toss so even if you lose all your poke units and the toss only loses 2 zealots it doesnt matter.

mm / banshee beats toss before high templar or collossi (heck it even beats high templar or collossi) so you will be fine against the toss

as a 800 diamond toss i go 1gate stargate void rays every game against terran. my strategy would beat back the terran and i would be on even grounds against this build. void rays are strong against all units even marines and vikings. 1 charged void ray (250 minerals) will kill 4 stimmed combat shield marines (200 minerals) and the zealots your pumping are more mineral effective than the marines so you can come out on top in the end. speed void rays also are fast and give map control letting you outproduce the terran

i still pump void rays even when my enemy is making vikings and marines. i can still win the battles usually

cloak is a real nightmare but i deal with it usually

Chronopolis

Canada1484 Posts

September 01 2010 17:28 GMT

#54

On September 01 2010 17:08 frogmelter wrote:
How does this build do against the kcdc fast expand build?

I've played against this kind of strat...raven/marine using kcdc's expo build, and while this build will give a mid-game push that will certainly give you a run for your money, it is by no means unstoppable as a 2 base protoss. (for the record, I lost but there was plenty of room for improvement) Getting pheonixes will certainly make your life easier, but a different solution is just to plant your self somewhere between you and ur opponent base. Just engage once, you should have the larger army, bar PDD, and once your zealots die, retreat (he has no concussive shells, stalkers run faster than banshees, if they over extend themselves pursueing, just snipe them. Then with your ~6 warpgate chronoboosted, add zealotsfor a second engagement which you should win.

Cibron

Sweden253 Posts

September 01 2010 17:35 GMT

#55

This fine, fine build just whooped som Protoss A$$!

Thank you Superbabosheki!! The initial poke+micro is enough to criple most guys! And they dont even know it's just the start lolololol...

This might be the new 1/1/1.

VonLego

United States519 Posts

September 01 2010 17:37 GMT

#56

Do you mind uploading a loss or two so we can see what the weaknesses of the build are? Should help terrans flush out the build and help toss realize what to do against it.

Alaric

France45622 Posts

September 01 2010 17:41 GMT

#57

On September 02 2010 01:15 ganil wrote:
Fast templars (if you manage to do this) hard counter banshee/marines build.
You can buy time with colossus too. Marines will melt against them. The T must choose between producing banshees and vikings and no terran will like this.

Banshees actually deal a lot of damage to colossi, so if you can micro them to avoid being sniped you can kill the colossus pretty fast and then you're golden.

avilo

United States4100 Posts

September 01 2010 17:44 GMT

#58

two starport is starting to become standard since banshees are very strong and especially since tanks will start sucking soon.

Finrod

Germany6 Posts

September 01 2010 17:53 GMT

#59

Very nice build. Used it now 5 times with 4-1 stats. Only lost cause my poke got owned (Stalkers are faster :/). He rushed instantly after my poke and with 2 marines a raven with ~80energy (+ a helion?) I couldnt defend against that. But all in all. Very nice!

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