EPTOn March 06 2024 09:53 Oatsmaster wrote:
??? Your spoilered part specifically calls out posts you think are scummy
Show nested quote +
On March 06 2024 09:36 Jealous wrote:
Double-checked to make sure I wasn't having a stroke, here is what I said again just for convenience:
I think my messaging has been pretty consistent here.
On March 06 2024 09:26 Oatsmaster wrote:
You literally pointed out scummy things in your list post and now you are backtracking to “not Great unproductive townie”??
On March 06 2024 09:23 Jealous wrote:
I still have it but I am less convinced about CopCake than rayn because I don't recall her seeming outright scummy, just not great/unproductive townie with a potentially questionable out-of-game statement, and though I struggle to understand CopCake sometimes, she's still miles ahead of Alakaslam in that department for me. So, she is the least lynchable of those three in my book ATM.
On March 06 2024 09:17 Oatsmaster wrote:
What happened to your cake read?
On March 06 2024 09:14 Jealous wrote:
So, here is what I found in Koshi's filter re: Trfel.
+ Show Spoiler [Koshi x Trfel] +
---
Tangentially related:
https://tl.net/forum/mafia/621454-a-classy-game-of-mafia?page=96#1906
So, if I understood correctly, in summary Trfel is scum according to Koshi because:
1. He focused on dissecting a set-up/meta topic instead of actually doing scumhunting when talking to MZ.
2. A potential rayn x Trfel team based on their exchange.
3. Inconsistency between their behavior in this game and the previous game. "Underwhelming."
Okay, I can buy it. Nothing too solid on anyone else anyway and it's D1. Still would have preferred rayn or Slam IMO, but there is plenty of scum out there and no traction on either of those, so Trfel it can be. Going to look at Trfel's filter next and evaluate further.
Can someone tell me stuff about JAT while I do that? Again, I really don't see how a scum!JAT puts their neck on the line against the Vivax for mayor campaign, but maybe I'm just dumb.
So, here is what I found in Koshi's filter re: Trfel.
+ Show Spoiler [Koshi x Trfel] +
On March 05 2024 06:36 Koshi wrote:
i am 100% with you. rayn marv tfrel can die.
We shouldn't do tfrel first.
rayn or marv. Let's go big.
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2024 04:04 Vivax wrote:
So maybe I just have to accept the fact that if rayn and iamp are actually town like I had in mind earlier, they prefer to annoy the hell out of you instead of actually finding scum and cause a massive unhelpful distraction that makes me reconsider their alignments.
Either way, not helpful.
I still want to kill Trfel. That's where my head is at.
Going to hedge on sandro.
VE/MZ worth looking into more deeply imo.
But Trfel first. I'm not going to repeat the mistake of trying to kill multples.
So maybe I just have to accept the fact that if rayn and iamp are actually town like I had in mind earlier, they prefer to annoy the hell out of you instead of actually finding scum and cause a massive unhelpful distraction that makes me reconsider their alignments.
Either way, not helpful.
I still want to kill Trfel. That's where my head is at.
Going to hedge on sandro.
VE/MZ worth looking into more deeply imo.
But Trfel first. I'm not going to repeat the mistake of trying to kill multples.
i am 100% with you. rayn marv tfrel can die.
We shouldn't do tfrel first.
rayn or marv. Let's go big.
On March 05 2024 08:01 Koshi wrote:
Because he looks smart on a set-up topic. As mafia it is harder to look good doing actual scumhunting, seeing somebody play sub optimal in a set-up way and make a conversation about that is way easier. You know you have the upper ground.
During that conversation he doesn't make any other posts interrogating people or does he try to solve the game. He is content to just talk setup with somebody.
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2024 05:31 CopCake wrote:
I think this is the second? comment about it, first being my rayn if I remember correctly.
Why the "Trfl looks smart" a bad thing?
Last game here, he was on fire and caught all the mafia team.
If you feel like that, pressure him to give you a list of players.
On March 05 2024 05:29 Koshi wrote:
The problem with this entire conversation is that Tfrel looks smart and MZ bad.
But it is the only thing Tfrel does in this entire timespan.
Look smart.
But he isn't doing anything that helps town find mafia.
I don't like it at all.
On March 04 2024 12:40 Trfel wrote:
On March 04 2024 12:34 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
If both are town then we'll have played a colossally trash D1 and I wouldn't be trusting my own read anymore than I trust any other individual on D1. There's something to be said for wisdom of the crowds.
There's almost nothing to be said for wisdom of the crowds, that's the point. It's 16 vs 5, the whole point is that wisdom of the crowds is really ineffective, that's how the game works.On March 04 2024 12:31 Trfel wrote:
On March 04 2024 12:28 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
That's assuming the first lynch is scum which D1 imo is a crap shoot, it's just as likely to be town pushed by mafia and the runner up is the scum, hence the double tap. TL towns are like barely 50% for D1 scum lynches iirc.
You're still ignoring the possibility that both are town. My point is, just because "town" votes for something doesn't make it the best play. I'm not saying you have to go for a hero play or something, but just that automatically lynching the top two instead of the top one isn't necessarily a good idea.On March 04 2024 12:25 Trfel wrote:
On March 04 2024 12:24 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
I was making a joke about Vivax saying he was going to autovote Palmar pregame and then immediately changed his mind.
Imo the Mayor KP is town KP, not a oneshot Day vig. It's not about avoiding responsibility it's about giving the town a chance to pull a 2for1 on D1.
Actually I'll cement that point, if I'm not going to win the mayor vote at the end of the day, I'm not going to vote for someone who hasn't also pledged to have the town decide the lynch.
I don't think the second wagon is a "town lynch" at all. In fact there's a decent likelihood that the second wagon would be pushed by mafia, no?On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:
[quote]Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no?
And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor?
[quote]Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no?
And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor?
I was making a joke about Vivax saying he was going to autovote Palmar pregame and then immediately changed his mind.
Imo the Mayor KP is town KP, not a oneshot Day vig. It's not about avoiding responsibility it's about giving the town a chance to pull a 2for1 on D1.
Actually I'll cement that point, if I'm not going to win the mayor vote at the end of the day, I'm not going to vote for someone who hasn't also pledged to have the town decide the lynch.
That's assuming the first lynch is scum which D1 imo is a crap shoot, it's just as likely to be town pushed by mafia and the runner up is the scum, hence the double tap. TL towns are like barely 50% for D1 scum lynches iirc.
If both are town then we'll have played a colossally trash D1 and I wouldn't be trusting my own read anymore than I trust any other individual on D1. There's something to be said for wisdom of the crowds.
The problem with this entire conversation is that Tfrel looks smart and MZ bad.
But it is the only thing Tfrel does in this entire timespan.
Look smart.
But he isn't doing anything that helps town find mafia.
I don't like it at all.
I think this is the second? comment about it, first being my rayn if I remember correctly.
Why the "Trfl looks smart" a bad thing?
Last game here, he was on fire and caught all the mafia team.
If you feel like that, pressure him to give you a list of players.
Because he looks smart on a set-up topic. As mafia it is harder to look good doing actual scumhunting, seeing somebody play sub optimal in a set-up way and make a conversation about that is way easier. You know you have the upper ground.
During that conversation he doesn't make any other posts interrogating people or does he try to solve the game. He is content to just talk setup with somebody.
On March 05 2024 10:03 Koshi wrote:
For me, everything tfrel says to MZ is just plain logic. He is right that killing the second wagon is easy, he is right that the second wagon is often town. He is having this safe conversation with MZ, who he will eventually not scumread. II feel tfrel is showing activity on a safe topic as mafia. While town!tfrel would be more likely to be out there finding mafia and sticking his neck out.
He was more townie for me in the previous game because he was more involved, more in the spotlight. This game he isn't doing that, and I don't like that.
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2024 09:52 JacobStrangelove wrote:
I liked this, no fluff beyond the first post straight into it with two questions.
I also agreed with this top two wagons has basically always been town in games i've played. basically his entire first page filter seems town ish this is where it kinda goes ary.
but in the sense doubling down on calling someone town doesn't seem like mafia play. It's ironically too suspicious. Like not having scum reads and seeing everyone as town is kinda how mafia is (despite it being the basis of my entire town play)
Admitedly his second page of his filter peters out a bit he's mostly commeting on other people in mild ways but to me it seems the entire reason people would even consider him mafia is based on past play which I've never experienced. I'm not seeing anything obviously jump out at me as being mafia play.
On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:
And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor?
On March 04 2024 12:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Well first off I didn't say pregame I'd vote for Palmar and then change my mind once the game started.
Secondly I don't think I've ever been a mayor before.
Thirdly I pledge to make my personal lynch a town lynch and will select whoever is the second in votes at the end of the day.
Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no?On March 04 2024 12:14 Trfel wrote:
On March 04 2024 12:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
hbd Trfel,
I'm thinking of running for mayor, we haven't had mayor elections in a looong time (or I haven't played in a game with mayor elections in a long time).
May I ask, why should we vote for you as mayor?hbd Trfel,
I'm thinking of running for mayor, we haven't had mayor elections in a looong time (or I haven't played in a game with mayor elections in a long time).
Well first off I didn't say pregame I'd vote for Palmar and then change my mind once the game started.
Secondly I don't think I've ever been a mayor before.
Thirdly I pledge to make my personal lynch a town lynch and will select whoever is the second in votes at the end of the day.
And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor?
I liked this, no fluff beyond the first post straight into it with two questions.
On March 04 2024 12:25 Trfel wrote:
On March 04 2024 12:24 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
I was making a joke about Vivax saying he was going to autovote Palmar pregame and then immediately changed his mind.
Imo the Mayor KP is town KP, not a oneshot Day vig. It's not about avoiding responsibility it's about giving the town a chance to pull a 2for1 on D1.
Actually I'll cement that point, if I'm not going to win the mayor vote at the end of the day, I'm not going to vote for someone who hasn't also pledged to have the town decide the lynch.
I don't think the second wagon is a "town lynch" at all. In fact there's a decent likelihood that the second wagon would be pushed by mafia, no?On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:
And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor?
On March 04 2024 12:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Well first off I didn't say pregame I'd vote for Palmar and then change my mind once the game started.
Secondly I don't think I've ever been a mayor before.
Thirdly I pledge to make my personal lynch a town lynch and will select whoever is the second in votes at the end of the day.
Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no?On March 04 2024 12:14 Trfel wrote:
On March 04 2024 12:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
hbd Trfel,
I'm thinking of running for mayor, we haven't had mayor elections in a looong time (or I haven't played in a game with mayor elections in a long time).
May I ask, why should we vote for you as mayor?hbd Trfel,
I'm thinking of running for mayor, we haven't had mayor elections in a looong time (or I haven't played in a game with mayor elections in a long time).
Well first off I didn't say pregame I'd vote for Palmar and then change my mind once the game started.
Secondly I don't think I've ever been a mayor before.
Thirdly I pledge to make my personal lynch a town lynch and will select whoever is the second in votes at the end of the day.
And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor?
I was making a joke about Vivax saying he was going to autovote Palmar pregame and then immediately changed his mind.
Imo the Mayor KP is town KP, not a oneshot Day vig. It's not about avoiding responsibility it's about giving the town a chance to pull a 2for1 on D1.
Actually I'll cement that point, if I'm not going to win the mayor vote at the end of the day, I'm not going to vote for someone who hasn't also pledged to have the town decide the lynch.
I also agreed with this top two wagons has basically always been town in games i've played. basically his entire first page filter seems town ish this is where it kinda goes ary.
On March 04 2024 13:20 Trfel wrote:
I'm actually going to double down and say that I think Meapak_Ziphh is town. Thus, I'm very surprised that he seems to be your top scumread, DarthPunk.
I'm actually going to double down and say that I think Meapak_Ziphh is town. Thus, I'm very surprised that he seems to be your top scumread, DarthPunk.
but in the sense doubling down on calling someone town doesn't seem like mafia play. It's ironically too suspicious. Like not having scum reads and seeing everyone as town is kinda how mafia is (despite it being the basis of my entire town play)
Admitedly his second page of his filter peters out a bit he's mostly commeting on other people in mild ways but to me it seems the entire reason people would even consider him mafia is based on past play which I've never experienced. I'm not seeing anything obviously jump out at me as being mafia play.
For me, everything tfrel says to MZ is just plain logic. He is right that killing the second wagon is easy, he is right that the second wagon is often town. He is having this safe conversation with MZ, who he will eventually not scumread. II feel tfrel is showing activity on a safe topic as mafia. While town!tfrel would be more likely to be out there finding mafia and sticking his neck out.
He was more townie for me in the previous game because he was more involved, more in the spotlight. This game he isn't doing that, and I don't like that.
On March 05 2024 20:23 Koshi wrote:
This is so bad. Tfrel asked rayn many questions. rayn sheepingly answered them without counter pressure between the "to clean comment" and this list.
I don't buy that he would be this lazy as town.
And VE. Mafia favorite misslynch of choice. Of course.
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2024 02:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Oatsmaster - probs town
DarthPunk - townish
Vivax - town
sandroba - town
Trfel - unsure, seems slightly off for me from town game
marvellosity - town
Jealous - not posted
Meapak_Ziphh - townish
Palmar - not posted
justanothertownie - not posted
die_meatbaby - town
CopCake - null, maybe teeny tiny bit townish perhaps?
JacobStrangelove - weird, cant make a read on him
Hapahauli - not posted
Iamperfection - town
Koshi - meh, useless
ToTheStars - would like to see more, read on trfel sounds townish
VisceraEyes - scummy, useless
Rels - useless
Alakaslam - town
Oatsmaster - probs town
DarthPunk - townish
Vivax - town
sandroba - town
Trfel - unsure, seems slightly off for me from town game
marvellosity - town
Jealous - not posted
Meapak_Ziphh - townish
Palmar - not posted
justanothertownie - not posted
die_meatbaby - town
CopCake - null, maybe teeny tiny bit townish perhaps?
JacobStrangelove - weird, cant make a read on him
Hapahauli - not posted
Iamperfection - town
Koshi - meh, useless
ToTheStars - would like to see more, read on trfel sounds townish
VisceraEyes - scummy, useless
Rels - useless
Alakaslam - town
This is so bad. Tfrel asked rayn many questions. rayn sheepingly answered them without counter pressure between the "to clean comment" and this list.
I don't buy that he would be this lazy as town.
And VE. Mafia favorite misslynch of choice. Of course.
On March 05 2024 21:30 Koshi wrote:
I really really really don't see that.
Last game I was so sure he was town.
What is he doing here? Everytime he gets pressured he moves away from it. Slam asks him about Oats. He gives a good answer but it lacks conviction. It looks way more as a mafia seeing Town!Oats be inquisitive than a townie figuring out Town!Oats is inquisitive.
Slam then pressures on and while replying to somebody else he @slam and disengages with him.
This can't be the same Tfrel as last game? You went 4 days with him. Under pressure by marv/DP/rayn iirc. This looks the same to you? I should follow your lead on him but it seems impossible.
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2024 11:13 sandroba wrote:
Didn't see much of people saying he might not be town. Shitting up the thread discussing the claim being bad I agree, CopCake is the main person I saw driving the discussion back to that.
I think saying he is prob town and prob not the best mayor, at least initially is the reaction I would expect from townies. Remember, even though scum might not want something, it's hard to actually push something when you think it would be obvious anti-town. Scum wants to hide and push things in a subtle way.
Not locked town on trfel since he hasn't been very active, but wouldn't lynch him d1 in a million years. What he has posted so far after the initial setup-focused posts looked super townie to me.
On March 05 2024 10:58 DarthPunk wrote:
Hard disagree. I find people who just accept it for what it is and make the correct play in regards to him is townie.
The scummy thing is talking around in circles about how shit vivax’s claim was, that he might not be town or if he is he is not confirmed
It’s a huge waste of time and shits up the thread and is also incredibly easy content to fake.
I found palmars approach to the situation very townie for example
Are you still lock town on trfel btw?
On March 05 2024 10:54 sandroba wrote:
I feel like it's harder to argue against vivax mayor as mafia. Rels and palmar both entered the thread with that mindset. Pretty much ignored most of what happened for most of the thread but making sure they say what they were supposed to say as town about the vivax claim as soon as possible.
There are obviously town reasons to mayor vivax, but there is some reluctance I expect from townies. I think the over-eagerness to jump on the vivax train right away points to mafia.
I feel like it's harder to argue against vivax mayor as mafia. Rels and palmar both entered the thread with that mindset. Pretty much ignored most of what happened for most of the thread but making sure they say what they were supposed to say as town about the vivax claim as soon as possible.
There are obviously town reasons to mayor vivax, but there is some reluctance I expect from townies. I think the over-eagerness to jump on the vivax train right away points to mafia.
Hard disagree. I find people who just accept it for what it is and make the correct play in regards to him is townie.
The scummy thing is talking around in circles about how shit vivax’s claim was, that he might not be town or if he is he is not confirmed
It’s a huge waste of time and shits up the thread and is also incredibly easy content to fake.
I found palmars approach to the situation very townie for example
Are you still lock town on trfel btw?
Didn't see much of people saying he might not be town. Shitting up the thread discussing the claim being bad I agree, CopCake is the main person I saw driving the discussion back to that.
I think saying he is prob town and prob not the best mayor, at least initially is the reaction I would expect from townies. Remember, even though scum might not want something, it's hard to actually push something when you think it would be obvious anti-town. Scum wants to hide and push things in a subtle way.
Not locked town on trfel since he hasn't been very active, but wouldn't lynch him d1 in a million years. What he has posted so far after the initial setup-focused posts looked super townie to me.
I really really really don't see that.
Last game I was so sure he was town.
What is he doing here? Everytime he gets pressured he moves away from it. Slam asks him about Oats. He gives a good answer but it lacks conviction. It looks way more as a mafia seeing Town!Oats be inquisitive than a townie figuring out Town!Oats is inquisitive.
Slam then pressures on and while replying to somebody else he @slam and disengages with him.
This can't be the same Tfrel as last game? You went 4 days with him. Under pressure by marv/DP/rayn iirc. This looks the same to you? I should follow your lead on him but it seems impossible.
---
Tangentially related:
https://tl.net/forum/mafia/621454-a-classy-game-of-mafia?page=96#1906
So, if I understood correctly, in summary Trfel is scum according to Koshi because:
1. He focused on dissecting a set-up/meta topic instead of actually doing scumhunting when talking to MZ.
2. A potential rayn x Trfel team based on their exchange.
3. Inconsistency between their behavior in this game and the previous game. "Underwhelming."
Okay, I can buy it. Nothing too solid on anyone else anyway and it's D1. Still would have preferred rayn or Slam IMO, but there is plenty of scum out there and no traction on either of those, so Trfel it can be. Going to look at Trfel's filter next and evaluate further.
Can someone tell me stuff about JAT while I do that? Again, I really don't see how a scum!JAT puts their neck on the line against the Vivax for mayor campaign, but maybe I'm just dumb.
What happened to your cake read?
I still have it but I am less convinced about CopCake than rayn because I don't recall her seeming outright scummy, just not great/unproductive townie with a potentially questionable out-of-game statement, and though I struggle to understand CopCake sometimes, she's still miles ahead of Alakaslam in that department for me. So, she is the least lynchable of those three in my book ATM.
You literally pointed out scummy things in your list post and now you are backtracking to “not Great unproductive townie”??
Double-checked to make sure I wasn't having a stroke, here is what I said again just for convenience:
13) CopCake - I don’t know if it’s because I have a hard time following their mindset/writing, or because of their self-professed “style”, but I just did not find any of their Day 1 play to be all that productive.
+ Show Spoiler [Stuff] +
^ Don’t want to beat it to death but I did not like these CopCake posts, I did like the Vivax and marv posts here.
^ My thoughts exactly.
+ Show Spoiler [Stuff] +
On March 05 2024 03:57 marvellosity wrote:
Vivax, take a break please and come back. Because I think you know this can’t make sense.
You’re just annoyed at the game and people in it and it leads to posts like this.
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2024 03:55 Vivax wrote:
This feels like the awkward moment where you need to make up for possibly exposing him as scum.
On March 05 2024 03:45 CopCake wrote:
rayn loves to be more town than mafia.
He has rolled mafia so many times that he is tired of that.
I also prefer more mafia than town unless I get to be mafia three times in a row or so.
On March 05 2024 03:40 die_meatbaby wrote:
that makes him look scum. I loved beeing mafia in the last game because doing random shit like offering my life for HF who claimed blue and provoke other Townies is fun as hell. As Town I take it way more seriously. But maybe thats just me
On March 05 2024 03:34 CopCake wrote:
I dont know if it is relevant but he was laughing hard in the other room.
On March 05 2024 03:28 Vivax wrote:
I'm bothered by rayn's reaction here tbh
I'm bothered by rayn's reaction here tbh
I dont know if it is relevant but he was laughing hard in the other room.
that makes him look scum. I loved beeing mafia in the last game because doing random shit like offering my life for HF who claimed blue and provoke other Townies is fun as hell. As Town I take it way more seriously. But maybe thats just me
rayn loves to be more town than mafia.
He has rolled mafia so many times that he is tired of that.
I also prefer more mafia than town unless I get to be mafia three times in a row or so.
This feels like the awkward moment where you need to make up for possibly exposing him as scum.
Vivax, take a break please and come back. Because I think you know this can’t make sense.
You’re just annoyed at the game and people in it and it leads to posts like this.
^ Don’t want to beat it to death but I did not like these CopCake posts, I did like the Vivax and marv posts here.
On March 05 2024 04:42 sandroba wrote:
Why are you trying to keep this useless trash nai discussion going CopCake?
Why are you trying to keep this useless trash nai discussion going CopCake?
^ My thoughts exactly.
I think my messaging has been pretty consistent here.
??? Your spoilered part specifically calls out posts you think are scummy
Yea, I didn't like them, hence not great/unproductive, which is almost exactly what I wrote in the post you're dissecting? I feel like you're manufacturing a semantics issue when there really isn't one. The fact remains that - before I was reminded that Alakaslam role-claimed cop - I thought both him and rayn would have been better lynches than CopCake. I don't see any contradictions in anything I've said.
How about you, who do you think are scum? What are your reads atm?
