|
On March 06 2024 08:59 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2024 08:57 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
I just finished debriefing, I'm still at work and can't catch up on 600 posts. Can a couple of people please summarize what's happened? Palmar mafia, palmar maybe not mafia. Jat and Trfel maybe mafia Marv looking sexy in Speedos
Breezing through the voting thread it looks like JAT and Trfel are the options, I see a couple of my town reads on Trfel but I had him as town very early on. If nobody can give me a convincing reason why JAT is town I'm probably gonna vote him as I don't recall being impressed by anything he posted up through last night.
Still trying to get through shit at work but I'll check my phone until the deadline.
|
Gotta go. I would say out of the options I have, my preference would be Palmar > JAT > random lurker (out of those, I still think TTS has the highest chance of flipping scum)
Still think Trfel is town, I would prefer any random lurker over him
|
I don't know if everyone jumped off Palmar, but that's the scummiest thing that happened in the game in my opinion:
On March 06 2024 08:19 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2024 08:12 Palmar wrote:On March 06 2024 08:07 Rels wrote:On March 05 2024 09:51 Palmar wrote:
Cba arguing with marv now but did make a mental note of him posting about vivax probably being town but not wanting to mayor him. Weird take because voting town mayor is always best. Can just bully them into lynching theme way we want.
But ironically I’m not sure marv would call me mafia as scum because he has no idea if I’m gonna put in work tomorrow or be lazy. But it’s all very weak and I’m not day 1 lynching players who can be relied on to actually try later on in the game.
I liked some Koshi posts
This is what I had in mind. Less strong than I thought but yeah, at the beginning of the marv push, the mentality was "marv wouldn't push me as scum". Let's see where that changes On March 05 2024 22:43 Palmar wrote:On March 05 2024 22:35 raynpelikoneet wrote:
--- Wall of text --- Just so I get it clear. a) Marv votes me and nowhere in your interactions he discusses or mentions the possibility of me being mafia? b) You don't think that's strange at all? Like you say twice I could be mafia, fine. But you don't think it's weird marv doesn't even ponder it in a chat with you? The most important thing he does during the day phase is voting, and he is voting a player he likes and knows very well, and doesn't make a single comment about it? Not weird? I guess there, throwing shade at marv Because I wanted marv to change his mind during my flurry of posting this morning. He failed to do so correctly and is has received a citation for that. That's not true. Here you were surprised at marv not changing his mind: Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 23:53 Palmar wrote:On March 05 2024 23:50 marvellosity wrote:On March 05 2024 22:12 Palmar wrote:On March 05 2024 20:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Thankfully i can play the game with marv, it's much more enjoyable than this thread. It looks really, really bad for you guys that you're all just checked out of the game but claim to be active in the thread. At least be a man and just actually check out of the game like me. Whoever is town of you three needs to start getting shit done in the thread. I’m getting you lynched bro. Wait you still think I'm mafia? Did you read my last 2 pages? But you were throwing shade at him before that point: Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 22:12 Palmar wrote:On March 05 2024 20:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Thankfully i can play the game with marv, it's much more enjoyable than this thread. It looks really, really bad for you guys that you're all just checked out of the game but claim to be active in the thread. At least be a man and just actually check out of the game like me. Whoever is town of you three needs to start getting shit done in the thread. Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 22:43 Palmar wrote:On March 05 2024 22:35 raynpelikoneet wrote:
--- Wall of text --- Just so I get it clear. a) Marv votes me and nowhere in your interactions he discusses or mentions the possibility of me being mafia? b) You don't think that's strange at all? Like you say twice I could be mafia, fine. But you don't think it's weird marv doesn't even ponder it in a chat with you? The most important thing he does during the day phase is voting, and he is voting a player he likes and knows very well, and doesn't make a single comment about it? Not weird? Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 22:48 Palmar wrote:
I need Sandroba to come convince me his mason buddies aren't just mafia.
I really, really, really don't think marv just tries to kill me without even talking about it.
On March 06 2024 08:30 Rels wrote:
"I really, really, really don't think marv just tries to kill me without even talking about it." => then 1 hour later "Wait you still think I'm mafia?"
?????
|
Will be back at least 1 hour before the deadline!
|
On March 06 2024 07:55 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2024 07:53 JacobStrangelove wrote:On March 06 2024 07:52 Vivax wrote:On March 06 2024 07:51 DarthPunk wrote:
ATTENTION TOWNIES
We are now lynching JAT, adjust your votes accordingly. I don't know but I know I want to work with you. Adjusted. same and he's actually here so can freak out before the lynch and give more info. If you don't want to Die JAT give a list post of some sort. I literally just said I will be going to bed in 10 minutes. You will have to be able to think on your own. If this town decides to mislynch me and elect Vivax at the same time that would be impressively bad.
Saying this while wholesale sheeping marv is impressive
|
|
|
On March 06 2024 09:08 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2024 09:07 Oatsmaster wrote:
Thoughts on rayn marv? Considering Mason chat and all Later.
Later like tomorrow? Or today
Also thoughts on dmb?
|
On March 06 2024 09:12 Rels wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote: Palmar
wasted vote.
|
So, here is what I found in Koshi's filter re: Trfel.
+ Show Spoiler [Koshi x Trfel] +On March 05 2024 06:36 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 04:04 Vivax wrote:
So maybe I just have to accept the fact that if rayn and iamp are actually town like I had in mind earlier, they prefer to annoy the hell out of you instead of actually finding scum and cause a massive unhelpful distraction that makes me reconsider their alignments.
Either way, not helpful.
I still want to kill Trfel. That's where my head is at.
Going to hedge on sandro.
VE/MZ worth looking into more deeply imo.
But Trfel first. I'm not going to repeat the mistake of trying to kill multples. i am 100% with you. rayn marv tfrel can die. We shouldn't do tfrel first. rayn or marv. Let's go big. On March 05 2024 08:01 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 05:31 CopCake wrote:On March 05 2024 05:29 Koshi wrote:On March 04 2024 12:40 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:34 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:31 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:28 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:25 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:24 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:
[quote]Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no?
And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I was making a joke about Vivax saying he was going to autovote Palmar pregame and then immediately changed his mind. Imo the Mayor KP is town KP, not a oneshot Day vig. It's not about avoiding responsibility it's about giving the town a chance to pull a 2for1 on D1. Actually I'll cement that point, if I'm not going to win the mayor vote at the end of the day, I'm not going to vote for someone who hasn't also pledged to have the town decide the lynch. I don't think the second wagon is a "town lynch" at all. In fact there's a decent likelihood that the second wagon would be pushed by mafia, no? That's assuming the first lynch is scum which D1 imo is a crap shoot, it's just as likely to be town pushed by mafia and the runner up is the scum, hence the double tap. TL towns are like barely 50% for D1 scum lynches iirc. You're still ignoring the possibility that both are town. My point is, just because "town" votes for something doesn't make it the best play. I'm not saying you have to go for a hero play or something, but just that automatically lynching the top two instead of the top one isn't necessarily a good idea. If both are town then we'll have played a colossally trash D1 and I wouldn't be trusting my own read anymore than I trust any other individual on D1. There's something to be said for wisdom of the crowds. There's almost nothing to be said for wisdom of the crowds, that's the point. It's 16 vs 5, the whole point is that wisdom of the crowds is really ineffective, that's how the game works. The problem with this entire conversation is that Tfrel looks smart and MZ bad. But it is the only thing Tfrel does in this entire timespan. Look smart. But he isn't doing anything that helps town find mafia. I don't like it at all. I think this is the second? comment about it, first being my rayn if I remember correctly. Why the "Trfl looks smart" a bad thing? Last game here, he was on fire and caught all the mafia team. If you feel like that, pressure him to give you a list of players. Because he looks smart on a set-up topic. As mafia it is harder to look good doing actual scumhunting, seeing somebody play sub optimal in a set-up way and make a conversation about that is way easier. You know you have the upper ground. During that conversation he doesn't make any other posts interrogating people or does he try to solve the game. He is content to just talk setup with somebody. On March 05 2024 10:03 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 09:52 JacobStrangelove wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:14 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
hbd Trfel,
I'm thinking of running for mayor, we haven't had mayor elections in a looong time (or I haven't played in a game with mayor elections in a long time). May I ask, why should we vote for you as mayor? Well first off I didn't say pregame I'd vote for Palmar and then change my mind once the game started. Secondly I don't think I've ever been a mayor before. Thirdly I pledge to make my personal lynch a town lynch and will select whoever is the second in votes at the end of the day. Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no?And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I liked this, no fluff beyond the first post straight into it with two questions. On March 04 2024 12:25 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:24 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:14 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
hbd Trfel,
I'm thinking of running for mayor, we haven't had mayor elections in a looong time (or I haven't played in a game with mayor elections in a long time). May I ask, why should we vote for you as mayor? Well first off I didn't say pregame I'd vote for Palmar and then change my mind once the game started. Secondly I don't think I've ever been a mayor before. Thirdly I pledge to make my personal lynch a town lynch and will select whoever is the second in votes at the end of the day. Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no? And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I was making a joke about Vivax saying he was going to autovote Palmar pregame and then immediately changed his mind. Imo the Mayor KP is town KP, not a oneshot Day vig. It's not about avoiding responsibility it's about giving the town a chance to pull a 2for1 on D1. Actually I'll cement that point, if I'm not going to win the mayor vote at the end of the day, I'm not going to vote for someone who hasn't also pledged to have the town decide the lynch. I don't think the second wagon is a "town lynch" at all. In fact there's a decent likelihood that the second wagon would be pushed by mafia, no? I also agreed with this top two wagons has basically always been town in games i've played. basically his entire first page filter seems town ish this is where it kinda goes ary. On March 04 2024 13:20 Trfel wrote:
I'm actually going to double down and say that I think Meapak_Ziphh is town. Thus, I'm very surprised that he seems to be your top scumread, DarthPunk. but in the sense doubling down on calling someone town doesn't seem like mafia play. It's ironically too suspicious. Like not having scum reads and seeing everyone as town is kinda how mafia is (despite it being the basis of my entire town play) Admitedly his second page of his filter peters out a bit he's mostly commeting on other people in mild ways but to me it seems the entire reason people would even consider him mafia is based on past play which I've never experienced. I'm not seeing anything obviously jump out at me as being mafia play. For me, everything tfrel says to MZ is just plain logic. He is right that killing the second wagon is easy, he is right that the second wagon is often town. He is having this safe conversation with MZ, who he will eventually not scumread. II feel tfrel is showing activity on a safe topic as mafia. While town!tfrel would be more likely to be out there finding mafia and sticking his neck out. He was more townie for me in the previous game because he was more involved, more in the spotlight. This game he isn't doing that, and I don't like that. On March 05 2024 20:23 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 02:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Oatsmaster - probs town
DarthPunk - townish
Vivax - town
sandroba - town
Trfel - unsure, seems slightly off for me from town game
marvellosity - town
Jealous - not posted
Meapak_Ziphh - townish
Palmar - not posted
justanothertownie - not posted
die_meatbaby - town
CopCake - null, maybe teeny tiny bit townish perhaps?
JacobStrangelove - weird, cant make a read on him
Hapahauli - not posted
Iamperfection - town
Koshi - meh, useless
ToTheStars - would like to see more, read on trfel sounds townish
VisceraEyes - scummy, useless
Rels - useless
Alakaslam - town This is so bad. Tfrel asked rayn many questions. rayn sheepingly answered them without counter pressure between the "to clean comment" and this list. I don't buy that he would be this lazy as town. And VE. Mafia favorite misslynch of choice. Of course. On March 05 2024 21:30 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 11:13 sandroba wrote:On March 05 2024 10:58 DarthPunk wrote:On March 05 2024 10:54 sandroba wrote:
I feel like it's harder to argue against vivax mayor as mafia. Rels and palmar both entered the thread with that mindset. Pretty much ignored most of what happened for most of the thread but making sure they say what they were supposed to say as town about the vivax claim as soon as possible.
There are obviously town reasons to mayor vivax, but there is some reluctance I expect from townies. I think the over-eagerness to jump on the vivax train right away points to mafia. Hard disagree. I find people who just accept it for what it is and make the correct play in regards to him is townie. The scummy thing is talking around in circles about how shit vivax’s claim was, that he might not be town or if he is he is not confirmed It’s a huge waste of time and shits up the thread and is also incredibly easy content to fake. I found palmars approach to the situation very townie for example Are you still lock town on trfel btw? Didn't see much of people saying he might not be town. Shitting up the thread discussing the claim being bad I agree, CopCake is the main person I saw driving the discussion back to that. I think saying he is prob town and prob not the best mayor, at least initially is the reaction I would expect from townies. Remember, even though scum might not want something, it's hard to actually push something when you think it would be obvious anti-town. Scum wants to hide and push things in a subtle way. Not locked town on trfel since he hasn't been very active, but wouldn't lynch him d1 in a million years. What he has posted so far after the initial setup-focused posts looked super townie to me. I really really really don't see that. Last game I was so sure he was town. What is he doing here? Everytime he gets pressured he moves away from it. Slam asks him about Oats. He gives a good answer but it lacks conviction. It looks way more as a mafia seeing Town!Oats be inquisitive than a townie figuring out Town!Oats is inquisitive. Slam then pressures on and while replying to somebody else he @slam and disengages with him. This can't be the same Tfrel as last game? You went 4 days with him. Under pressure by marv/DP/rayn iirc. This looks the same to you? I should follow your lead on him but it seems impossible. --- Tangentially related: https://tl.net/forum/mafia/621454-a-classy-game-of-mafia?page=96#1906
So, if I understood correctly, in summary Trfel is scum according to Koshi because:
1. He focused on dissecting a set-up/meta topic instead of actually doing scumhunting when talking to MZ.
2. A potential rayn x Trfel team based on their exchange.
3. Inconsistency between their behavior in this game and the previous game. "Underwhelming."
Okay, I can buy it. Nothing too solid on anyone else anyway and it's D1. Still would have preferred rayn or Slam IMO, but there is plenty of scum out there and no traction on either of those, so Trfel it can be. Going to look at Trfel's filter next and evaluate further.
Can someone tell me stuff about JAT while I do that? Again, I really don't see how a scum!JAT puts their neck on the line against the Vivax for mayor campaign, but maybe I'm just dumb.
|
@vivax
What are your intentions for the kill?
|
On March 06 2024 09:14 Jealous wrote:So, here is what I found in Koshi's filter re: Trfel. + Show Spoiler [Koshi x Trfel] +On March 05 2024 06:36 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 04:04 Vivax wrote:
So maybe I just have to accept the fact that if rayn and iamp are actually town like I had in mind earlier, they prefer to annoy the hell out of you instead of actually finding scum and cause a massive unhelpful distraction that makes me reconsider their alignments.
Either way, not helpful.
I still want to kill Trfel. That's where my head is at.
Going to hedge on sandro.
VE/MZ worth looking into more deeply imo.
But Trfel first. I'm not going to repeat the mistake of trying to kill multples. i am 100% with you. rayn marv tfrel can die. We shouldn't do tfrel first. rayn or marv. Let's go big. On March 05 2024 08:01 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 05:31 CopCake wrote:On March 05 2024 05:29 Koshi wrote:On March 04 2024 12:40 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:34 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:31 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:28 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:25 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:24 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:
[quote]Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no?
And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I was making a joke about Vivax saying he was going to autovote Palmar pregame and then immediately changed his mind. Imo the Mayor KP is town KP, not a oneshot Day vig. It's not about avoiding responsibility it's about giving the town a chance to pull a 2for1 on D1. Actually I'll cement that point, if I'm not going to win the mayor vote at the end of the day, I'm not going to vote for someone who hasn't also pledged to have the town decide the lynch. I don't think the second wagon is a "town lynch" at all. In fact there's a decent likelihood that the second wagon would be pushed by mafia, no? That's assuming the first lynch is scum which D1 imo is a crap shoot, it's just as likely to be town pushed by mafia and the runner up is the scum, hence the double tap. TL towns are like barely 50% for D1 scum lynches iirc. You're still ignoring the possibility that both are town. My point is, just because "town" votes for something doesn't make it the best play. I'm not saying you have to go for a hero play or something, but just that automatically lynching the top two instead of the top one isn't necessarily a good idea. If both are town then we'll have played a colossally trash D1 and I wouldn't be trusting my own read anymore than I trust any other individual on D1. There's something to be said for wisdom of the crowds. There's almost nothing to be said for wisdom of the crowds, that's the point. It's 16 vs 5, the whole point is that wisdom of the crowds is really ineffective, that's how the game works. The problem with this entire conversation is that Tfrel looks smart and MZ bad. But it is the only thing Tfrel does in this entire timespan. Look smart. But he isn't doing anything that helps town find mafia. I don't like it at all. I think this is the second? comment about it, first being my rayn if I remember correctly. Why the "Trfl looks smart" a bad thing? Last game here, he was on fire and caught all the mafia team. If you feel like that, pressure him to give you a list of players. Because he looks smart on a set-up topic. As mafia it is harder to look good doing actual scumhunting, seeing somebody play sub optimal in a set-up way and make a conversation about that is way easier. You know you have the upper ground. During that conversation he doesn't make any other posts interrogating people or does he try to solve the game. He is content to just talk setup with somebody. On March 05 2024 10:03 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 09:52 JacobStrangelove wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:14 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
hbd Trfel,
I'm thinking of running for mayor, we haven't had mayor elections in a looong time (or I haven't played in a game with mayor elections in a long time). May I ask, why should we vote for you as mayor? Well first off I didn't say pregame I'd vote for Palmar and then change my mind once the game started. Secondly I don't think I've ever been a mayor before. Thirdly I pledge to make my personal lynch a town lynch and will select whoever is the second in votes at the end of the day. Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no?And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I liked this, no fluff beyond the first post straight into it with two questions. On March 04 2024 12:25 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:24 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:14 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
hbd Trfel,
I'm thinking of running for mayor, we haven't had mayor elections in a looong time (or I haven't played in a game with mayor elections in a long time). May I ask, why should we vote for you as mayor? Well first off I didn't say pregame I'd vote for Palmar and then change my mind once the game started. Secondly I don't think I've ever been a mayor before. Thirdly I pledge to make my personal lynch a town lynch and will select whoever is the second in votes at the end of the day. Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no? And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I was making a joke about Vivax saying he was going to autovote Palmar pregame and then immediately changed his mind. Imo the Mayor KP is town KP, not a oneshot Day vig. It's not about avoiding responsibility it's about giving the town a chance to pull a 2for1 on D1. Actually I'll cement that point, if I'm not going to win the mayor vote at the end of the day, I'm not going to vote for someone who hasn't also pledged to have the town decide the lynch. I don't think the second wagon is a "town lynch" at all. In fact there's a decent likelihood that the second wagon would be pushed by mafia, no? I also agreed with this top two wagons has basically always been town in games i've played. basically his entire first page filter seems town ish this is where it kinda goes ary. On March 04 2024 13:20 Trfel wrote:
I'm actually going to double down and say that I think Meapak_Ziphh is town. Thus, I'm very surprised that he seems to be your top scumread, DarthPunk. but in the sense doubling down on calling someone town doesn't seem like mafia play. It's ironically too suspicious. Like not having scum reads and seeing everyone as town is kinda how mafia is (despite it being the basis of my entire town play) Admitedly his second page of his filter peters out a bit he's mostly commeting on other people in mild ways but to me it seems the entire reason people would even consider him mafia is based on past play which I've never experienced. I'm not seeing anything obviously jump out at me as being mafia play. For me, everything tfrel says to MZ is just plain logic. He is right that killing the second wagon is easy, he is right that the second wagon is often town. He is having this safe conversation with MZ, who he will eventually not scumread. II feel tfrel is showing activity on a safe topic as mafia. While town!tfrel would be more likely to be out there finding mafia and sticking his neck out. He was more townie for me in the previous game because he was more involved, more in the spotlight. This game he isn't doing that, and I don't like that. On March 05 2024 20:23 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 02:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Oatsmaster - probs town
DarthPunk - townish
Vivax - town
sandroba - town
Trfel - unsure, seems slightly off for me from town game
marvellosity - town
Jealous - not posted
Meapak_Ziphh - townish
Palmar - not posted
justanothertownie - not posted
die_meatbaby - town
CopCake - null, maybe teeny tiny bit townish perhaps?
JacobStrangelove - weird, cant make a read on him
Hapahauli - not posted
Iamperfection - town
Koshi - meh, useless
ToTheStars - would like to see more, read on trfel sounds townish
VisceraEyes - scummy, useless
Rels - useless
Alakaslam - town This is so bad. Tfrel asked rayn many questions. rayn sheepingly answered them without counter pressure between the "to clean comment" and this list. I don't buy that he would be this lazy as town. And VE. Mafia favorite misslynch of choice. Of course. On March 05 2024 21:30 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 11:13 sandroba wrote:On March 05 2024 10:58 DarthPunk wrote:On March 05 2024 10:54 sandroba wrote:
I feel like it's harder to argue against vivax mayor as mafia. Rels and palmar both entered the thread with that mindset. Pretty much ignored most of what happened for most of the thread but making sure they say what they were supposed to say as town about the vivax claim as soon as possible.
There are obviously town reasons to mayor vivax, but there is some reluctance I expect from townies. I think the over-eagerness to jump on the vivax train right away points to mafia. Hard disagree. I find people who just accept it for what it is and make the correct play in regards to him is townie. The scummy thing is talking around in circles about how shit vivax’s claim was, that he might not be town or if he is he is not confirmed It’s a huge waste of time and shits up the thread and is also incredibly easy content to fake. I found palmars approach to the situation very townie for example Are you still lock town on trfel btw? Didn't see much of people saying he might not be town. Shitting up the thread discussing the claim being bad I agree, CopCake is the main person I saw driving the discussion back to that. I think saying he is prob town and prob not the best mayor, at least initially is the reaction I would expect from townies. Remember, even though scum might not want something, it's hard to actually push something when you think it would be obvious anti-town. Scum wants to hide and push things in a subtle way. Not locked town on trfel since he hasn't been very active, but wouldn't lynch him d1 in a million years. What he has posted so far after the initial setup-focused posts looked super townie to me. I really really really don't see that. Last game I was so sure he was town. What is he doing here? Everytime he gets pressured he moves away from it. Slam asks him about Oats. He gives a good answer but it lacks conviction. It looks way more as a mafia seeing Town!Oats be inquisitive than a townie figuring out Town!Oats is inquisitive. Slam then pressures on and while replying to somebody else he @slam and disengages with him. This can't be the same Tfrel as last game? You went 4 days with him. Under pressure by marv/DP/rayn iirc. This looks the same to you? I should follow your lead on him but it seems impossible. --- Tangentially related: https://tl.net/forum/mafia/621454-a-classy-game-of-mafia?page=96#1906So, if I understood correctly, in summary Trfel is scum according to Koshi because: 1. He focused on dissecting a set-up/meta topic instead of actually doing scumhunting when talking to MZ. 2. A potential rayn x Trfel team based on their exchange. 3. Inconsistency between their behavior in this game and the previous game. "Underwhelming."Okay, I can buy it. Nothing too solid on anyone else anyway and it's D1. Still would have preferred rayn or Slam IMO, but there is plenty of scum out there and no traction on either of those, so Trfel it can be. Going to look at Trfel's filter next and evaluate further. Can someone tell me stuff about JAT while I do that? Again, I really don't see how a scum!JAT puts their neck on the line against the Vivax for mayor campaign, but maybe I'm just dumb.
Look at the Sandro case I posted a little while ago.
|
On March 06 2024 09:14 Oatsmaster wrote:
@vivax
What are your intentions for the kill?
He already said HAPA.
|
On March 06 2024 09:14 Jealous wrote:So, here is what I found in Koshi's filter re: Trfel. + Show Spoiler [Koshi x Trfel] +On March 05 2024 06:36 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 04:04 Vivax wrote:
So maybe I just have to accept the fact that if rayn and iamp are actually town like I had in mind earlier, they prefer to annoy the hell out of you instead of actually finding scum and cause a massive unhelpful distraction that makes me reconsider their alignments.
Either way, not helpful.
I still want to kill Trfel. That's where my head is at.
Going to hedge on sandro.
VE/MZ worth looking into more deeply imo.
But Trfel first. I'm not going to repeat the mistake of trying to kill multples. i am 100% with you. rayn marv tfrel can die. We shouldn't do tfrel first. rayn or marv. Let's go big. On March 05 2024 08:01 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 05:31 CopCake wrote:On March 05 2024 05:29 Koshi wrote:On March 04 2024 12:40 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:34 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:31 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:28 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:25 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:24 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:
[quote]Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no?
And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I was making a joke about Vivax saying he was going to autovote Palmar pregame and then immediately changed his mind. Imo the Mayor KP is town KP, not a oneshot Day vig. It's not about avoiding responsibility it's about giving the town a chance to pull a 2for1 on D1. Actually I'll cement that point, if I'm not going to win the mayor vote at the end of the day, I'm not going to vote for someone who hasn't also pledged to have the town decide the lynch. I don't think the second wagon is a "town lynch" at all. In fact there's a decent likelihood that the second wagon would be pushed by mafia, no? That's assuming the first lynch is scum which D1 imo is a crap shoot, it's just as likely to be town pushed by mafia and the runner up is the scum, hence the double tap. TL towns are like barely 50% for D1 scum lynches iirc. You're still ignoring the possibility that both are town. My point is, just because "town" votes for something doesn't make it the best play. I'm not saying you have to go for a hero play or something, but just that automatically lynching the top two instead of the top one isn't necessarily a good idea. If both are town then we'll have played a colossally trash D1 and I wouldn't be trusting my own read anymore than I trust any other individual on D1. There's something to be said for wisdom of the crowds. There's almost nothing to be said for wisdom of the crowds, that's the point. It's 16 vs 5, the whole point is that wisdom of the crowds is really ineffective, that's how the game works. The problem with this entire conversation is that Tfrel looks smart and MZ bad. But it is the only thing Tfrel does in this entire timespan. Look smart. But he isn't doing anything that helps town find mafia. I don't like it at all. I think this is the second? comment about it, first being my rayn if I remember correctly. Why the "Trfl looks smart" a bad thing? Last game here, he was on fire and caught all the mafia team. If you feel like that, pressure him to give you a list of players. Because he looks smart on a set-up topic. As mafia it is harder to look good doing actual scumhunting, seeing somebody play sub optimal in a set-up way and make a conversation about that is way easier. You know you have the upper ground. During that conversation he doesn't make any other posts interrogating people or does he try to solve the game. He is content to just talk setup with somebody. On March 05 2024 10:03 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 09:52 JacobStrangelove wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:14 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
hbd Trfel,
I'm thinking of running for mayor, we haven't had mayor elections in a looong time (or I haven't played in a game with mayor elections in a long time). May I ask, why should we vote for you as mayor? Well first off I didn't say pregame I'd vote for Palmar and then change my mind once the game started. Secondly I don't think I've ever been a mayor before. Thirdly I pledge to make my personal lynch a town lynch and will select whoever is the second in votes at the end of the day. Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no?And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I liked this, no fluff beyond the first post straight into it with two questions. On March 04 2024 12:25 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:24 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:14 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
hbd Trfel,
I'm thinking of running for mayor, we haven't had mayor elections in a looong time (or I haven't played in a game with mayor elections in a long time). May I ask, why should we vote for you as mayor? Well first off I didn't say pregame I'd vote for Palmar and then change my mind once the game started. Secondly I don't think I've ever been a mayor before. Thirdly I pledge to make my personal lynch a town lynch and will select whoever is the second in votes at the end of the day. Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no? And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I was making a joke about Vivax saying he was going to autovote Palmar pregame and then immediately changed his mind. Imo the Mayor KP is town KP, not a oneshot Day vig. It's not about avoiding responsibility it's about giving the town a chance to pull a 2for1 on D1. Actually I'll cement that point, if I'm not going to win the mayor vote at the end of the day, I'm not going to vote for someone who hasn't also pledged to have the town decide the lynch. I don't think the second wagon is a "town lynch" at all. In fact there's a decent likelihood that the second wagon would be pushed by mafia, no? I also agreed with this top two wagons has basically always been town in games i've played. basically his entire first page filter seems town ish this is where it kinda goes ary. On March 04 2024 13:20 Trfel wrote:
I'm actually going to double down and say that I think Meapak_Ziphh is town. Thus, I'm very surprised that he seems to be your top scumread, DarthPunk. but in the sense doubling down on calling someone town doesn't seem like mafia play. It's ironically too suspicious. Like not having scum reads and seeing everyone as town is kinda how mafia is (despite it being the basis of my entire town play) Admitedly his second page of his filter peters out a bit he's mostly commeting on other people in mild ways but to me it seems the entire reason people would even consider him mafia is based on past play which I've never experienced. I'm not seeing anything obviously jump out at me as being mafia play. For me, everything tfrel says to MZ is just plain logic. He is right that killing the second wagon is easy, he is right that the second wagon is often town. He is having this safe conversation with MZ, who he will eventually not scumread. II feel tfrel is showing activity on a safe topic as mafia. While town!tfrel would be more likely to be out there finding mafia and sticking his neck out. He was more townie for me in the previous game because he was more involved, more in the spotlight. This game he isn't doing that, and I don't like that. On March 05 2024 20:23 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 02:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Oatsmaster - probs town
DarthPunk - townish
Vivax - town
sandroba - town
Trfel - unsure, seems slightly off for me from town game
marvellosity - town
Jealous - not posted
Meapak_Ziphh - townish
Palmar - not posted
justanothertownie - not posted
die_meatbaby - town
CopCake - null, maybe teeny tiny bit townish perhaps?
JacobStrangelove - weird, cant make a read on him
Hapahauli - not posted
Iamperfection - town
Koshi - meh, useless
ToTheStars - would like to see more, read on trfel sounds townish
VisceraEyes - scummy, useless
Rels - useless
Alakaslam - town This is so bad. Tfrel asked rayn many questions. rayn sheepingly answered them without counter pressure between the "to clean comment" and this list. I don't buy that he would be this lazy as town. And VE. Mafia favorite misslynch of choice. Of course. On March 05 2024 21:30 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 11:13 sandroba wrote:On March 05 2024 10:58 DarthPunk wrote:On March 05 2024 10:54 sandroba wrote:
I feel like it's harder to argue against vivax mayor as mafia. Rels and palmar both entered the thread with that mindset. Pretty much ignored most of what happened for most of the thread but making sure they say what they were supposed to say as town about the vivax claim as soon as possible.
There are obviously town reasons to mayor vivax, but there is some reluctance I expect from townies. I think the over-eagerness to jump on the vivax train right away points to mafia. Hard disagree. I find people who just accept it for what it is and make the correct play in regards to him is townie. The scummy thing is talking around in circles about how shit vivax’s claim was, that he might not be town or if he is he is not confirmed It’s a huge waste of time and shits up the thread and is also incredibly easy content to fake. I found palmars approach to the situation very townie for example Are you still lock town on trfel btw? Didn't see much of people saying he might not be town. Shitting up the thread discussing the claim being bad I agree, CopCake is the main person I saw driving the discussion back to that. I think saying he is prob town and prob not the best mayor, at least initially is the reaction I would expect from townies. Remember, even though scum might not want something, it's hard to actually push something when you think it would be obvious anti-town. Scum wants to hide and push things in a subtle way. Not locked town on trfel since he hasn't been very active, but wouldn't lynch him d1 in a million years. What he has posted so far after the initial setup-focused posts looked super townie to me. I really really really don't see that. Last game I was so sure he was town. What is he doing here? Everytime he gets pressured he moves away from it. Slam asks him about Oats. He gives a good answer but it lacks conviction. It looks way more as a mafia seeing Town!Oats be inquisitive than a townie figuring out Town!Oats is inquisitive. Slam then pressures on and while replying to somebody else he @slam and disengages with him. This can't be the same Tfrel as last game? You went 4 days with him. Under pressure by marv/DP/rayn iirc. This looks the same to you? I should follow your lead on him but it seems impossible. --- Tangentially related: https://tl.net/forum/mafia/621454-a-classy-game-of-mafia?page=96#1906So, if I understood correctly, in summary Trfel is scum according to Koshi because: 1. He focused on dissecting a set-up/meta topic instead of actually doing scumhunting when talking to MZ. 2. A potential rayn x Trfel team based on their exchange. 3. Inconsistency between their behavior in this game and the previous game. "Underwhelming."Okay, I can buy it. Nothing too solid on anyone else anyway and it's D1. Still would have preferred rayn or Slam IMO, but there is plenty of scum out there and no traction on either of those, so Trfel it can be. Going to look at Trfel's filter next and evaluate further. Can someone tell me stuff about JAT while I do that? Again, I really don't see how a scum!JAT puts their neck on the line against the Vivax for mayor campaign, but maybe I'm just dumb.
The only thing that bugs me when you write is that you actually go and look so hard into Slam well knowing he claimed cop.
The only natural reaction would be 'meh, self-resolving' yet you still seem to believe there's something to be found and worth pursuing.
So if he flips mafia at some point it'd make you look worse tbh.
|
On March 06 2024 09:14 Jealous wrote:So, here is what I found in Koshi's filter re: Trfel. + Show Spoiler [Koshi x Trfel] +On March 05 2024 06:36 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 04:04 Vivax wrote:
So maybe I just have to accept the fact that if rayn and iamp are actually town like I had in mind earlier, they prefer to annoy the hell out of you instead of actually finding scum and cause a massive unhelpful distraction that makes me reconsider their alignments.
Either way, not helpful.
I still want to kill Trfel. That's where my head is at.
Going to hedge on sandro.
VE/MZ worth looking into more deeply imo.
But Trfel first. I'm not going to repeat the mistake of trying to kill multples. i am 100% with you. rayn marv tfrel can die. We shouldn't do tfrel first. rayn or marv. Let's go big. On March 05 2024 08:01 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 05:31 CopCake wrote:On March 05 2024 05:29 Koshi wrote:On March 04 2024 12:40 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:34 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:31 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:28 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:25 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:24 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:
[quote]Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no?
And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I was making a joke about Vivax saying he was going to autovote Palmar pregame and then immediately changed his mind. Imo the Mayor KP is town KP, not a oneshot Day vig. It's not about avoiding responsibility it's about giving the town a chance to pull a 2for1 on D1. Actually I'll cement that point, if I'm not going to win the mayor vote at the end of the day, I'm not going to vote for someone who hasn't also pledged to have the town decide the lynch. I don't think the second wagon is a "town lynch" at all. In fact there's a decent likelihood that the second wagon would be pushed by mafia, no? That's assuming the first lynch is scum which D1 imo is a crap shoot, it's just as likely to be town pushed by mafia and the runner up is the scum, hence the double tap. TL towns are like barely 50% for D1 scum lynches iirc. You're still ignoring the possibility that both are town. My point is, just because "town" votes for something doesn't make it the best play. I'm not saying you have to go for a hero play or something, but just that automatically lynching the top two instead of the top one isn't necessarily a good idea. If both are town then we'll have played a colossally trash D1 and I wouldn't be trusting my own read anymore than I trust any other individual on D1. There's something to be said for wisdom of the crowds. There's almost nothing to be said for wisdom of the crowds, that's the point. It's 16 vs 5, the whole point is that wisdom of the crowds is really ineffective, that's how the game works. The problem with this entire conversation is that Tfrel looks smart and MZ bad. But it is the only thing Tfrel does in this entire timespan. Look smart. But he isn't doing anything that helps town find mafia. I don't like it at all. I think this is the second? comment about it, first being my rayn if I remember correctly. Why the "Trfl looks smart" a bad thing? Last game here, he was on fire and caught all the mafia team. If you feel like that, pressure him to give you a list of players. Because he looks smart on a set-up topic. As mafia it is harder to look good doing actual scumhunting, seeing somebody play sub optimal in a set-up way and make a conversation about that is way easier. You know you have the upper ground. During that conversation he doesn't make any other posts interrogating people or does he try to solve the game. He is content to just talk setup with somebody. On March 05 2024 10:03 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 09:52 JacobStrangelove wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:14 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
hbd Trfel,
I'm thinking of running for mayor, we haven't had mayor elections in a looong time (or I haven't played in a game with mayor elections in a long time). May I ask, why should we vote for you as mayor? Well first off I didn't say pregame I'd vote for Palmar and then change my mind once the game started. Secondly I don't think I've ever been a mayor before. Thirdly I pledge to make my personal lynch a town lynch and will select whoever is the second in votes at the end of the day. Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no?And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I liked this, no fluff beyond the first post straight into it with two questions. On March 04 2024 12:25 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:24 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:14 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
hbd Trfel,
I'm thinking of running for mayor, we haven't had mayor elections in a looong time (or I haven't played in a game with mayor elections in a long time). May I ask, why should we vote for you as mayor? Well first off I didn't say pregame I'd vote for Palmar and then change my mind once the game started. Secondly I don't think I've ever been a mayor before. Thirdly I pledge to make my personal lynch a town lynch and will select whoever is the second in votes at the end of the day. Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no? And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I was making a joke about Vivax saying he was going to autovote Palmar pregame and then immediately changed his mind. Imo the Mayor KP is town KP, not a oneshot Day vig. It's not about avoiding responsibility it's about giving the town a chance to pull a 2for1 on D1. Actually I'll cement that point, if I'm not going to win the mayor vote at the end of the day, I'm not going to vote for someone who hasn't also pledged to have the town decide the lynch. I don't think the second wagon is a "town lynch" at all. In fact there's a decent likelihood that the second wagon would be pushed by mafia, no? I also agreed with this top two wagons has basically always been town in games i've played. basically his entire first page filter seems town ish this is where it kinda goes ary. On March 04 2024 13:20 Trfel wrote:
I'm actually going to double down and say that I think Meapak_Ziphh is town. Thus, I'm very surprised that he seems to be your top scumread, DarthPunk. but in the sense doubling down on calling someone town doesn't seem like mafia play. It's ironically too suspicious. Like not having scum reads and seeing everyone as town is kinda how mafia is (despite it being the basis of my entire town play) Admitedly his second page of his filter peters out a bit he's mostly commeting on other people in mild ways but to me it seems the entire reason people would even consider him mafia is based on past play which I've never experienced. I'm not seeing anything obviously jump out at me as being mafia play. For me, everything tfrel says to MZ is just plain logic. He is right that killing the second wagon is easy, he is right that the second wagon is often town. He is having this safe conversation with MZ, who he will eventually not scumread. II feel tfrel is showing activity on a safe topic as mafia. While town!tfrel would be more likely to be out there finding mafia and sticking his neck out. He was more townie for me in the previous game because he was more involved, more in the spotlight. This game he isn't doing that, and I don't like that. On March 05 2024 20:23 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 02:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Oatsmaster - probs town
DarthPunk - townish
Vivax - town
sandroba - town
Trfel - unsure, seems slightly off for me from town game
marvellosity - town
Jealous - not posted
Meapak_Ziphh - townish
Palmar - not posted
justanothertownie - not posted
die_meatbaby - town
CopCake - null, maybe teeny tiny bit townish perhaps?
JacobStrangelove - weird, cant make a read on him
Hapahauli - not posted
Iamperfection - town
Koshi - meh, useless
ToTheStars - would like to see more, read on trfel sounds townish
VisceraEyes - scummy, useless
Rels - useless
Alakaslam - town This is so bad. Tfrel asked rayn many questions. rayn sheepingly answered them without counter pressure between the "to clean comment" and this list. I don't buy that he would be this lazy as town. And VE. Mafia favorite misslynch of choice. Of course. On March 05 2024 21:30 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 11:13 sandroba wrote:On March 05 2024 10:58 DarthPunk wrote:On March 05 2024 10:54 sandroba wrote:
I feel like it's harder to argue against vivax mayor as mafia. Rels and palmar both entered the thread with that mindset. Pretty much ignored most of what happened for most of the thread but making sure they say what they were supposed to say as town about the vivax claim as soon as possible.
There are obviously town reasons to mayor vivax, but there is some reluctance I expect from townies. I think the over-eagerness to jump on the vivax train right away points to mafia. Hard disagree. I find people who just accept it for what it is and make the correct play in regards to him is townie. The scummy thing is talking around in circles about how shit vivax’s claim was, that he might not be town or if he is he is not confirmed It’s a huge waste of time and shits up the thread and is also incredibly easy content to fake. I found palmars approach to the situation very townie for example Are you still lock town on trfel btw? Didn't see much of people saying he might not be town. Shitting up the thread discussing the claim being bad I agree, CopCake is the main person I saw driving the discussion back to that. I think saying he is prob town and prob not the best mayor, at least initially is the reaction I would expect from townies. Remember, even though scum might not want something, it's hard to actually push something when you think it would be obvious anti-town. Scum wants to hide and push things in a subtle way. Not locked town on trfel since he hasn't been very active, but wouldn't lynch him d1 in a million years. What he has posted so far after the initial setup-focused posts looked super townie to me. I really really really don't see that. Last game I was so sure he was town. What is he doing here? Everytime he gets pressured he moves away from it. Slam asks him about Oats. He gives a good answer but it lacks conviction. It looks way more as a mafia seeing Town!Oats be inquisitive than a townie figuring out Town!Oats is inquisitive. Slam then pressures on and while replying to somebody else he @slam and disengages with him. This can't be the same Tfrel as last game? You went 4 days with him. Under pressure by marv/DP/rayn iirc. This looks the same to you? I should follow your lead on him but it seems impossible. --- Tangentially related: https://tl.net/forum/mafia/621454-a-classy-game-of-mafia?page=96#1906So, if I understood correctly, in summary Trfel is scum according to Koshi because: 1. He focused on dissecting a set-up/meta topic instead of actually doing scumhunting when talking to MZ. 2. A potential rayn x Trfel team based on their exchange. 3. Inconsistency between their behavior in this game and the previous game. "Underwhelming."Okay, I can buy it. Nothing too solid on anyone else anyway and it's D1. Still would have preferred rayn or Slam IMO, but there is plenty of scum out there and no traction on either of those, so Trfel it can be. Going to look at Trfel's filter next and evaluate further. Can someone tell me stuff about JAT while I do that? Again, I really don't see how a scum!JAT puts their neck on the line against the Vivax for mayor campaign, but maybe I'm just dumb.
What happened to your cake read?
|
On March 06 2024 09:16 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2024 09:14 Oatsmaster wrote:
@vivax
What are your intentions for the kill? He already said HAPA.
Ah okay, I think vigging Palmar if he ends up being the 2nd top vote is fucking terrible so I was about to go off but hapa is fine
|
Finally I am at home. Have to catch up about 30 pages, then I will make my vote decision
|
On March 06 2024 09:15 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2024 09:14 Jealous wrote:So, here is what I found in Koshi's filter re: Trfel. + Show Spoiler [Koshi x Trfel] +On March 05 2024 06:36 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 04:04 Vivax wrote:
So maybe I just have to accept the fact that if rayn and iamp are actually town like I had in mind earlier, they prefer to annoy the hell out of you instead of actually finding scum and cause a massive unhelpful distraction that makes me reconsider their alignments.
Either way, not helpful.
I still want to kill Trfel. That's where my head is at.
Going to hedge on sandro.
VE/MZ worth looking into more deeply imo.
But Trfel first. I'm not going to repeat the mistake of trying to kill multples. i am 100% with you. rayn marv tfrel can die. We shouldn't do tfrel first. rayn or marv. Let's go big. On March 05 2024 08:01 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 05:31 CopCake wrote:On March 05 2024 05:29 Koshi wrote:On March 04 2024 12:40 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:34 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:31 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:28 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:25 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:24 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:
[quote]Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no?
And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I was making a joke about Vivax saying he was going to autovote Palmar pregame and then immediately changed his mind. Imo the Mayor KP is town KP, not a oneshot Day vig. It's not about avoiding responsibility it's about giving the town a chance to pull a 2for1 on D1. Actually I'll cement that point, if I'm not going to win the mayor vote at the end of the day, I'm not going to vote for someone who hasn't also pledged to have the town decide the lynch. I don't think the second wagon is a "town lynch" at all. In fact there's a decent likelihood that the second wagon would be pushed by mafia, no? That's assuming the first lynch is scum which D1 imo is a crap shoot, it's just as likely to be town pushed by mafia and the runner up is the scum, hence the double tap. TL towns are like barely 50% for D1 scum lynches iirc. You're still ignoring the possibility that both are town. My point is, just because "town" votes for something doesn't make it the best play. I'm not saying you have to go for a hero play or something, but just that automatically lynching the top two instead of the top one isn't necessarily a good idea. If both are town then we'll have played a colossally trash D1 and I wouldn't be trusting my own read anymore than I trust any other individual on D1. There's something to be said for wisdom of the crowds. There's almost nothing to be said for wisdom of the crowds, that's the point. It's 16 vs 5, the whole point is that wisdom of the crowds is really ineffective, that's how the game works. The problem with this entire conversation is that Tfrel looks smart and MZ bad. But it is the only thing Tfrel does in this entire timespan. Look smart. But he isn't doing anything that helps town find mafia. I don't like it at all. I think this is the second? comment about it, first being my rayn if I remember correctly. Why the "Trfl looks smart" a bad thing? Last game here, he was on fire and caught all the mafia team. If you feel like that, pressure him to give you a list of players. Because he looks smart on a set-up topic. As mafia it is harder to look good doing actual scumhunting, seeing somebody play sub optimal in a set-up way and make a conversation about that is way easier. You know you have the upper ground. During that conversation he doesn't make any other posts interrogating people or does he try to solve the game. He is content to just talk setup with somebody. On March 05 2024 10:03 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 09:52 JacobStrangelove wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:14 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
hbd Trfel,
I'm thinking of running for mayor, we haven't had mayor elections in a looong time (or I haven't played in a game with mayor elections in a long time). May I ask, why should we vote for you as mayor? Well first off I didn't say pregame I'd vote for Palmar and then change my mind once the game started. Secondly I don't think I've ever been a mayor before. Thirdly I pledge to make my personal lynch a town lynch and will select whoever is the second in votes at the end of the day. Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no?And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I liked this, no fluff beyond the first post straight into it with two questions. On March 04 2024 12:25 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:24 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:14 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
hbd Trfel,
I'm thinking of running for mayor, we haven't had mayor elections in a looong time (or I haven't played in a game with mayor elections in a long time). May I ask, why should we vote for you as mayor? Well first off I didn't say pregame I'd vote for Palmar and then change my mind once the game started. Secondly I don't think I've ever been a mayor before. Thirdly I pledge to make my personal lynch a town lynch and will select whoever is the second in votes at the end of the day. Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no? And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I was making a joke about Vivax saying he was going to autovote Palmar pregame and then immediately changed his mind. Imo the Mayor KP is town KP, not a oneshot Day vig. It's not about avoiding responsibility it's about giving the town a chance to pull a 2for1 on D1. Actually I'll cement that point, if I'm not going to win the mayor vote at the end of the day, I'm not going to vote for someone who hasn't also pledged to have the town decide the lynch. I don't think the second wagon is a "town lynch" at all. In fact there's a decent likelihood that the second wagon would be pushed by mafia, no? I also agreed with this top two wagons has basically always been town in games i've played. basically his entire first page filter seems town ish this is where it kinda goes ary. On March 04 2024 13:20 Trfel wrote:
I'm actually going to double down and say that I think Meapak_Ziphh is town. Thus, I'm very surprised that he seems to be your top scumread, DarthPunk. but in the sense doubling down on calling someone town doesn't seem like mafia play. It's ironically too suspicious. Like not having scum reads and seeing everyone as town is kinda how mafia is (despite it being the basis of my entire town play) Admitedly his second page of his filter peters out a bit he's mostly commeting on other people in mild ways but to me it seems the entire reason people would even consider him mafia is based on past play which I've never experienced. I'm not seeing anything obviously jump out at me as being mafia play. For me, everything tfrel says to MZ is just plain logic. He is right that killing the second wagon is easy, he is right that the second wagon is often town. He is having this safe conversation with MZ, who he will eventually not scumread. II feel tfrel is showing activity on a safe topic as mafia. While town!tfrel would be more likely to be out there finding mafia and sticking his neck out. He was more townie for me in the previous game because he was more involved, more in the spotlight. This game he isn't doing that, and I don't like that. On March 05 2024 20:23 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 02:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Oatsmaster - probs town
DarthPunk - townish
Vivax - town
sandroba - town
Trfel - unsure, seems slightly off for me from town game
marvellosity - town
Jealous - not posted
Meapak_Ziphh - townish
Palmar - not posted
justanothertownie - not posted
die_meatbaby - town
CopCake - null, maybe teeny tiny bit townish perhaps?
JacobStrangelove - weird, cant make a read on him
Hapahauli - not posted
Iamperfection - town
Koshi - meh, useless
ToTheStars - would like to see more, read on trfel sounds townish
VisceraEyes - scummy, useless
Rels - useless
Alakaslam - town This is so bad. Tfrel asked rayn many questions. rayn sheepingly answered them without counter pressure between the "to clean comment" and this list. I don't buy that he would be this lazy as town. And VE. Mafia favorite misslynch of choice. Of course. On March 05 2024 21:30 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 11:13 sandroba wrote:On March 05 2024 10:58 DarthPunk wrote:On March 05 2024 10:54 sandroba wrote:
I feel like it's harder to argue against vivax mayor as mafia. Rels and palmar both entered the thread with that mindset. Pretty much ignored most of what happened for most of the thread but making sure they say what they were supposed to say as town about the vivax claim as soon as possible.
There are obviously town reasons to mayor vivax, but there is some reluctance I expect from townies. I think the over-eagerness to jump on the vivax train right away points to mafia. Hard disagree. I find people who just accept it for what it is and make the correct play in regards to him is townie. The scummy thing is talking around in circles about how shit vivax’s claim was, that he might not be town or if he is he is not confirmed It’s a huge waste of time and shits up the thread and is also incredibly easy content to fake. I found palmars approach to the situation very townie for example Are you still lock town on trfel btw? Didn't see much of people saying he might not be town. Shitting up the thread discussing the claim being bad I agree, CopCake is the main person I saw driving the discussion back to that. I think saying he is prob town and prob not the best mayor, at least initially is the reaction I would expect from townies. Remember, even though scum might not want something, it's hard to actually push something when you think it would be obvious anti-town. Scum wants to hide and push things in a subtle way. Not locked town on trfel since he hasn't been very active, but wouldn't lynch him d1 in a million years. What he has posted so far after the initial setup-focused posts looked super townie to me. I really really really don't see that. Last game I was so sure he was town. What is he doing here? Everytime he gets pressured he moves away from it. Slam asks him about Oats. He gives a good answer but it lacks conviction. It looks way more as a mafia seeing Town!Oats be inquisitive than a townie figuring out Town!Oats is inquisitive. Slam then pressures on and while replying to somebody else he @slam and disengages with him. This can't be the same Tfrel as last game? You went 4 days with him. Under pressure by marv/DP/rayn iirc. This looks the same to you? I should follow your lead on him but it seems impossible. --- Tangentially related: https://tl.net/forum/mafia/621454-a-classy-game-of-mafia?page=96#1906So, if I understood correctly, in summary Trfel is scum according to Koshi because: 1. He focused on dissecting a set-up/meta topic instead of actually doing scumhunting when talking to MZ. 2. A potential rayn x Trfel team based on their exchange. 3. Inconsistency between their behavior in this game and the previous game. "Underwhelming."Okay, I can buy it. Nothing too solid on anyone else anyway and it's D1. Still would have preferred rayn or Slam IMO, but there is plenty of scum out there and no traction on either of those, so Trfel it can be. Going to look at Trfel's filter next and evaluate further. Can someone tell me stuff about JAT while I do that? Again, I really don't see how a scum!JAT puts their neck on the line against the Vivax for mayor campaign, but maybe I'm just dumb. Look at the Sandro case I posted a little while ago.
Yea, I keep forgetting to refresh after writing something and before I ask for stuff. Saw several posts on the previous page, gonna re-read them again. Thanks!
On March 06 2024 09:16 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2024 09:14 Jealous wrote:So, here is what I found in Koshi's filter re: Trfel. + Show Spoiler [Koshi x Trfel] +On March 05 2024 06:36 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 04:04 Vivax wrote:
So maybe I just have to accept the fact that if rayn and iamp are actually town like I had in mind earlier, they prefer to annoy the hell out of you instead of actually finding scum and cause a massive unhelpful distraction that makes me reconsider their alignments.
Either way, not helpful.
I still want to kill Trfel. That's where my head is at.
Going to hedge on sandro.
VE/MZ worth looking into more deeply imo.
But Trfel first. I'm not going to repeat the mistake of trying to kill multples. i am 100% with you. rayn marv tfrel can die. We shouldn't do tfrel first. rayn or marv. Let's go big. On March 05 2024 08:01 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 05:31 CopCake wrote:On March 05 2024 05:29 Koshi wrote:On March 04 2024 12:40 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:34 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:31 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:28 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:25 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:24 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:
[quote]Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no?
And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I was making a joke about Vivax saying he was going to autovote Palmar pregame and then immediately changed his mind. Imo the Mayor KP is town KP, not a oneshot Day vig. It's not about avoiding responsibility it's about giving the town a chance to pull a 2for1 on D1. Actually I'll cement that point, if I'm not going to win the mayor vote at the end of the day, I'm not going to vote for someone who hasn't also pledged to have the town decide the lynch. I don't think the second wagon is a "town lynch" at all. In fact there's a decent likelihood that the second wagon would be pushed by mafia, no? That's assuming the first lynch is scum which D1 imo is a crap shoot, it's just as likely to be town pushed by mafia and the runner up is the scum, hence the double tap. TL towns are like barely 50% for D1 scum lynches iirc. You're still ignoring the possibility that both are town. My point is, just because "town" votes for something doesn't make it the best play. I'm not saying you have to go for a hero play or something, but just that automatically lynching the top two instead of the top one isn't necessarily a good idea. If both are town then we'll have played a colossally trash D1 and I wouldn't be trusting my own read anymore than I trust any other individual on D1. There's something to be said for wisdom of the crowds. There's almost nothing to be said for wisdom of the crowds, that's the point. It's 16 vs 5, the whole point is that wisdom of the crowds is really ineffective, that's how the game works. The problem with this entire conversation is that Tfrel looks smart and MZ bad. But it is the only thing Tfrel does in this entire timespan. Look smart. But he isn't doing anything that helps town find mafia. I don't like it at all. I think this is the second? comment about it, first being my rayn if I remember correctly. Why the "Trfl looks smart" a bad thing? Last game here, he was on fire and caught all the mafia team. If you feel like that, pressure him to give you a list of players. Because he looks smart on a set-up topic. As mafia it is harder to look good doing actual scumhunting, seeing somebody play sub optimal in a set-up way and make a conversation about that is way easier. You know you have the upper ground. During that conversation he doesn't make any other posts interrogating people or does he try to solve the game. He is content to just talk setup with somebody. On March 05 2024 10:03 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 09:52 JacobStrangelove wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:14 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
hbd Trfel,
I'm thinking of running for mayor, we haven't had mayor elections in a looong time (or I haven't played in a game with mayor elections in a long time). May I ask, why should we vote for you as mayor? Well first off I didn't say pregame I'd vote for Palmar and then change my mind once the game started. Secondly I don't think I've ever been a mayor before. Thirdly I pledge to make my personal lynch a town lynch and will select whoever is the second in votes at the end of the day. Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no?And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I liked this, no fluff beyond the first post straight into it with two questions. On March 04 2024 12:25 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:24 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:14 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
hbd Trfel,
I'm thinking of running for mayor, we haven't had mayor elections in a looong time (or I haven't played in a game with mayor elections in a long time). May I ask, why should we vote for you as mayor? Well first off I didn't say pregame I'd vote for Palmar and then change my mind once the game started. Secondly I don't think I've ever been a mayor before. Thirdly I pledge to make my personal lynch a town lynch and will select whoever is the second in votes at the end of the day. Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no? And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I was making a joke about Vivax saying he was going to autovote Palmar pregame and then immediately changed his mind. Imo the Mayor KP is town KP, not a oneshot Day vig. It's not about avoiding responsibility it's about giving the town a chance to pull a 2for1 on D1. Actually I'll cement that point, if I'm not going to win the mayor vote at the end of the day, I'm not going to vote for someone who hasn't also pledged to have the town decide the lynch. I don't think the second wagon is a "town lynch" at all. In fact there's a decent likelihood that the second wagon would be pushed by mafia, no? I also agreed with this top two wagons has basically always been town in games i've played. basically his entire first page filter seems town ish this is where it kinda goes ary. On March 04 2024 13:20 Trfel wrote:
I'm actually going to double down and say that I think Meapak_Ziphh is town. Thus, I'm very surprised that he seems to be your top scumread, DarthPunk. but in the sense doubling down on calling someone town doesn't seem like mafia play. It's ironically too suspicious. Like not having scum reads and seeing everyone as town is kinda how mafia is (despite it being the basis of my entire town play) Admitedly his second page of his filter peters out a bit he's mostly commeting on other people in mild ways but to me it seems the entire reason people would even consider him mafia is based on past play which I've never experienced. I'm not seeing anything obviously jump out at me as being mafia play. For me, everything tfrel says to MZ is just plain logic. He is right that killing the second wagon is easy, he is right that the second wagon is often town. He is having this safe conversation with MZ, who he will eventually not scumread. II feel tfrel is showing activity on a safe topic as mafia. While town!tfrel would be more likely to be out there finding mafia and sticking his neck out. He was more townie for me in the previous game because he was more involved, more in the spotlight. This game he isn't doing that, and I don't like that. On March 05 2024 20:23 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 02:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Oatsmaster - probs town
DarthPunk - townish
Vivax - town
sandroba - town
Trfel - unsure, seems slightly off for me from town game
marvellosity - town
Jealous - not posted
Meapak_Ziphh - townish
Palmar - not posted
justanothertownie - not posted
die_meatbaby - town
CopCake - null, maybe teeny tiny bit townish perhaps?
JacobStrangelove - weird, cant make a read on him
Hapahauli - not posted
Iamperfection - town
Koshi - meh, useless
ToTheStars - would like to see more, read on trfel sounds townish
VisceraEyes - scummy, useless
Rels - useless
Alakaslam - town This is so bad. Tfrel asked rayn many questions. rayn sheepingly answered them without counter pressure between the "to clean comment" and this list. I don't buy that he would be this lazy as town. And VE. Mafia favorite misslynch of choice. Of course. On March 05 2024 21:30 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 11:13 sandroba wrote:On March 05 2024 10:58 DarthPunk wrote:On March 05 2024 10:54 sandroba wrote:
I feel like it's harder to argue against vivax mayor as mafia. Rels and palmar both entered the thread with that mindset. Pretty much ignored most of what happened for most of the thread but making sure they say what they were supposed to say as town about the vivax claim as soon as possible.
There are obviously town reasons to mayor vivax, but there is some reluctance I expect from townies. I think the over-eagerness to jump on the vivax train right away points to mafia. Hard disagree. I find people who just accept it for what it is and make the correct play in regards to him is townie. The scummy thing is talking around in circles about how shit vivax’s claim was, that he might not be town or if he is he is not confirmed It’s a huge waste of time and shits up the thread and is also incredibly easy content to fake. I found palmars approach to the situation very townie for example Are you still lock town on trfel btw? Didn't see much of people saying he might not be town. Shitting up the thread discussing the claim being bad I agree, CopCake is the main person I saw driving the discussion back to that. I think saying he is prob town and prob not the best mayor, at least initially is the reaction I would expect from townies. Remember, even though scum might not want something, it's hard to actually push something when you think it would be obvious anti-town. Scum wants to hide and push things in a subtle way. Not locked town on trfel since he hasn't been very active, but wouldn't lynch him d1 in a million years. What he has posted so far after the initial setup-focused posts looked super townie to me. I really really really don't see that. Last game I was so sure he was town. What is he doing here? Everytime he gets pressured he moves away from it. Slam asks him about Oats. He gives a good answer but it lacks conviction. It looks way more as a mafia seeing Town!Oats be inquisitive than a townie figuring out Town!Oats is inquisitive. Slam then pressures on and while replying to somebody else he @slam and disengages with him. This can't be the same Tfrel as last game? You went 4 days with him. Under pressure by marv/DP/rayn iirc. This looks the same to you? I should follow your lead on him but it seems impossible. --- Tangentially related: https://tl.net/forum/mafia/621454-a-classy-game-of-mafia?page=96#1906So, if I understood correctly, in summary Trfel is scum according to Koshi because: 1. He focused on dissecting a set-up/meta topic instead of actually doing scumhunting when talking to MZ. 2. A potential rayn x Trfel team based on their exchange. 3. Inconsistency between their behavior in this game and the previous game. "Underwhelming."Okay, I can buy it. Nothing too solid on anyone else anyway and it's D1. Still would have preferred rayn or Slam IMO, but there is plenty of scum out there and no traction on either of those, so Trfel it can be. Going to look at Trfel's filter next and evaluate further. Can someone tell me stuff about JAT while I do that? Again, I really don't see how a scum!JAT puts their neck on the line against the Vivax for mayor campaign, but maybe I'm just dumb. The only thing that bugs me when you write is that you actually go and look so hard into Slam well knowing he claimed cop. The only natural reaction would be 'meh, self-resolving' yet you still seem to believe there's something to be found and worth pursuing. So if he flips mafia at some point it'd make you look worse tbh.
Ooh, I guess I didn't catch that; my bad on that. My eyes must have glazed over while reading his word salad, plus there is the issue of CopCake's name making that word not stand out as much as it probably should have (and sometimes being abbreviated as CC and sometimes not). Will go dive into that after I catch up on the JAT stuff.
To be clear, if Alakaslam claimed cop role and there were no counter-claims by anyone, then yea, not gonna lynch him D1. If I can't get a read on him then that means that I can't really have much conviction in the fact that he is fake-claiming. Better safe than sorry.
|
The over explanation is real
I don’t think the list post makes jealous townie
|
Slash ninja votes trfl and vanishes
|
On March 06 2024 09:17 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2024 09:14 Jealous wrote:So, here is what I found in Koshi's filter re: Trfel. + Show Spoiler [Koshi x Trfel] +On March 05 2024 06:36 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 04:04 Vivax wrote:
So maybe I just have to accept the fact that if rayn and iamp are actually town like I had in mind earlier, they prefer to annoy the hell out of you instead of actually finding scum and cause a massive unhelpful distraction that makes me reconsider their alignments.
Either way, not helpful.
I still want to kill Trfel. That's where my head is at.
Going to hedge on sandro.
VE/MZ worth looking into more deeply imo.
But Trfel first. I'm not going to repeat the mistake of trying to kill multples. i am 100% with you. rayn marv tfrel can die. We shouldn't do tfrel first. rayn or marv. Let's go big. On March 05 2024 08:01 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 05:31 CopCake wrote:On March 05 2024 05:29 Koshi wrote:On March 04 2024 12:40 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:34 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:31 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:28 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:25 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:24 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:
[quote]Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no?
And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I was making a joke about Vivax saying he was going to autovote Palmar pregame and then immediately changed his mind. Imo the Mayor KP is town KP, not a oneshot Day vig. It's not about avoiding responsibility it's about giving the town a chance to pull a 2for1 on D1. Actually I'll cement that point, if I'm not going to win the mayor vote at the end of the day, I'm not going to vote for someone who hasn't also pledged to have the town decide the lynch. I don't think the second wagon is a "town lynch" at all. In fact there's a decent likelihood that the second wagon would be pushed by mafia, no? That's assuming the first lynch is scum which D1 imo is a crap shoot, it's just as likely to be town pushed by mafia and the runner up is the scum, hence the double tap. TL towns are like barely 50% for D1 scum lynches iirc. You're still ignoring the possibility that both are town. My point is, just because "town" votes for something doesn't make it the best play. I'm not saying you have to go for a hero play or something, but just that automatically lynching the top two instead of the top one isn't necessarily a good idea. If both are town then we'll have played a colossally trash D1 and I wouldn't be trusting my own read anymore than I trust any other individual on D1. There's something to be said for wisdom of the crowds. There's almost nothing to be said for wisdom of the crowds, that's the point. It's 16 vs 5, the whole point is that wisdom of the crowds is really ineffective, that's how the game works. The problem with this entire conversation is that Tfrel looks smart and MZ bad. But it is the only thing Tfrel does in this entire timespan. Look smart. But he isn't doing anything that helps town find mafia. I don't like it at all. I think this is the second? comment about it, first being my rayn if I remember correctly. Why the "Trfl looks smart" a bad thing? Last game here, he was on fire and caught all the mafia team. If you feel like that, pressure him to give you a list of players. Because he looks smart on a set-up topic. As mafia it is harder to look good doing actual scumhunting, seeing somebody play sub optimal in a set-up way and make a conversation about that is way easier. You know you have the upper ground. During that conversation he doesn't make any other posts interrogating people or does he try to solve the game. He is content to just talk setup with somebody. On March 05 2024 10:03 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 09:52 JacobStrangelove wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:14 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
hbd Trfel,
I'm thinking of running for mayor, we haven't had mayor elections in a looong time (or I haven't played in a game with mayor elections in a long time). May I ask, why should we vote for you as mayor? Well first off I didn't say pregame I'd vote for Palmar and then change my mind once the game started. Secondly I don't think I've ever been a mayor before. Thirdly I pledge to make my personal lynch a town lynch and will select whoever is the second in votes at the end of the day. Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no?And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I liked this, no fluff beyond the first post straight into it with two questions. On March 04 2024 12:25 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:24 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:19 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 04 2024 12:14 Trfel wrote:On March 04 2024 12:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
hbd Trfel,
I'm thinking of running for mayor, we haven't had mayor elections in a looong time (or I haven't played in a game with mayor elections in a long time). May I ask, why should we vote for you as mayor? Well first off I didn't say pregame I'd vote for Palmar and then change my mind once the game started. Secondly I don't think I've ever been a mayor before. Thirdly I pledge to make my personal lynch a town lynch and will select whoever is the second in votes at the end of the day. Seems like an easy way to avoid the responsibility of the results of said lynch, no? And I don't understand why saying pregame that you would vote for Palmar and then changing your mind is a reason we should make you mayor? I was making a joke about Vivax saying he was going to autovote Palmar pregame and then immediately changed his mind. Imo the Mayor KP is town KP, not a oneshot Day vig. It's not about avoiding responsibility it's about giving the town a chance to pull a 2for1 on D1. Actually I'll cement that point, if I'm not going to win the mayor vote at the end of the day, I'm not going to vote for someone who hasn't also pledged to have the town decide the lynch. I don't think the second wagon is a "town lynch" at all. In fact there's a decent likelihood that the second wagon would be pushed by mafia, no? I also agreed with this top two wagons has basically always been town in games i've played. basically his entire first page filter seems town ish this is where it kinda goes ary. On March 04 2024 13:20 Trfel wrote:
I'm actually going to double down and say that I think Meapak_Ziphh is town. Thus, I'm very surprised that he seems to be your top scumread, DarthPunk. but in the sense doubling down on calling someone town doesn't seem like mafia play. It's ironically too suspicious. Like not having scum reads and seeing everyone as town is kinda how mafia is (despite it being the basis of my entire town play) Admitedly his second page of his filter peters out a bit he's mostly commeting on other people in mild ways but to me it seems the entire reason people would even consider him mafia is based on past play which I've never experienced. I'm not seeing anything obviously jump out at me as being mafia play. For me, everything tfrel says to MZ is just plain logic. He is right that killing the second wagon is easy, he is right that the second wagon is often town. He is having this safe conversation with MZ, who he will eventually not scumread. II feel tfrel is showing activity on a safe topic as mafia. While town!tfrel would be more likely to be out there finding mafia and sticking his neck out. He was more townie for me in the previous game because he was more involved, more in the spotlight. This game he isn't doing that, and I don't like that. On March 05 2024 20:23 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 02:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Oatsmaster - probs town
DarthPunk - townish
Vivax - town
sandroba - town
Trfel - unsure, seems slightly off for me from town game
marvellosity - town
Jealous - not posted
Meapak_Ziphh - townish
Palmar - not posted
justanothertownie - not posted
die_meatbaby - town
CopCake - null, maybe teeny tiny bit townish perhaps?
JacobStrangelove - weird, cant make a read on him
Hapahauli - not posted
Iamperfection - town
Koshi - meh, useless
ToTheStars - would like to see more, read on trfel sounds townish
VisceraEyes - scummy, useless
Rels - useless
Alakaslam - town This is so bad. Tfrel asked rayn many questions. rayn sheepingly answered them without counter pressure between the "to clean comment" and this list. I don't buy that he would be this lazy as town. And VE. Mafia favorite misslynch of choice. Of course. On March 05 2024 21:30 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 11:13 sandroba wrote:On March 05 2024 10:58 DarthPunk wrote:On March 05 2024 10:54 sandroba wrote:
I feel like it's harder to argue against vivax mayor as mafia. Rels and palmar both entered the thread with that mindset. Pretty much ignored most of what happened for most of the thread but making sure they say what they were supposed to say as town about the vivax claim as soon as possible.
There are obviously town reasons to mayor vivax, but there is some reluctance I expect from townies. I think the over-eagerness to jump on the vivax train right away points to mafia. Hard disagree. I find people who just accept it for what it is and make the correct play in regards to him is townie. The scummy thing is talking around in circles about how shit vivax’s claim was, that he might not be town or if he is he is not confirmed It’s a huge waste of time and shits up the thread and is also incredibly easy content to fake. I found palmars approach to the situation very townie for example Are you still lock town on trfel btw? Didn't see much of people saying he might not be town. Shitting up the thread discussing the claim being bad I agree, CopCake is the main person I saw driving the discussion back to that. I think saying he is prob town and prob not the best mayor, at least initially is the reaction I would expect from townies. Remember, even though scum might not want something, it's hard to actually push something when you think it would be obvious anti-town. Scum wants to hide and push things in a subtle way. Not locked town on trfel since he hasn't been very active, but wouldn't lynch him d1 in a million years. What he has posted so far after the initial setup-focused posts looked super townie to me. I really really really don't see that. Last game I was so sure he was town. What is he doing here? Everytime he gets pressured he moves away from it. Slam asks him about Oats. He gives a good answer but it lacks conviction. It looks way more as a mafia seeing Town!Oats be inquisitive than a townie figuring out Town!Oats is inquisitive. Slam then pressures on and while replying to somebody else he @slam and disengages with him. This can't be the same Tfrel as last game? You went 4 days with him. Under pressure by marv/DP/rayn iirc. This looks the same to you? I should follow your lead on him but it seems impossible. --- Tangentially related: https://tl.net/forum/mafia/621454-a-classy-game-of-mafia?page=96#1906So, if I understood correctly, in summary Trfel is scum according to Koshi because: 1. He focused on dissecting a set-up/meta topic instead of actually doing scumhunting when talking to MZ. 2. A potential rayn x Trfel team based on their exchange. 3. Inconsistency between their behavior in this game and the previous game. "Underwhelming."Okay, I can buy it. Nothing too solid on anyone else anyway and it's D1. Still would have preferred rayn or Slam IMO, but there is plenty of scum out there and no traction on either of those, so Trfel it can be. Going to look at Trfel's filter next and evaluate further. Can someone tell me stuff about JAT while I do that? Again, I really don't see how a scum!JAT puts their neck on the line against the Vivax for mayor campaign, but maybe I'm just dumb. What happened to your cake read?
I still have it but I am less convinced about CopCake than rayn because I don't recall her seeming outright scummy, just not great/unproductive townie with a potentially questionable out-of-game statement, and though I struggle to understand CopCake sometimes, she's still miles ahead of Alakaslam in that department for me. So, she is the least lynchable of those three in my book ATM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
