(this way I can make sure that she doesn't play )
Newbie Student Mafia XVII: Fullmetal Edition
Forum Index > TL Mafia |
Trfel
6496 Posts
(this way I can make sure that she doesn't play ) | ||
Trfel
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Edit: On second thought, I don't think anyone would want to coach me, so it would probably be best to find other volunteers XD | ||
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/in For now, anyway. | ||
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Or at least, if it is, I'll simply not get that involved. If you would like to participate in this game without killing yourself over it, let me know and we can work together to solve the game | ||
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On November 09 2015 15:34 Breshke wrote: Yeah, I guess I should take the hint./out Sorry I've got exams soon, probably shouldn't try juggle mafia and study /out | ||
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On November 10 2015 00:22 justanothertownie wrote: It definitely "works" for me, if "works" means skipping studying and then the exams themselves to play mafia...Oh, it works somehow. But it isn't advisable. | ||
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/in | ||
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On November 12 2015 07:18 Eversince wrote: Just sign up and play XDI hope I can join this again then! I'd totally tunnel you from the point you claim! Could be fun! I'd like to have a low activity game for once, the more activity excuses into afk, the better! | ||
Trfel
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I'm in Engineering, currently undecided. I wonder if it might be a bad idea to start this game on the weekend anyway... Edit: I don't think there have been any post count restricted games in a while, and I personally don't think that they're a good idea any more given my experience with them. I'd rather just play a normal game that doesn't have as many posts, but is focused and (most importantly) has people working together instead of pointless arguments that take up 20+ pages. | ||
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On November 13 2015 12:56 disformation wrote: Don't worry, you'll get to play for 48 hours before we lynch you I hope we can finally get going. Sunday should also be a pretty good starting time for me. Have a bit of stuff lined up this Friday and Saturday. Another newbie would be great, seeing that there currently are only 3 signed up for this. | ||
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On November 13 2015 16:30 Breshke wrote: Useful posts, that's the hard part, isn't it I'm doing Civil and structural Engineering which will hopefully not be as hard to get a job from when i finish my degree as it is now. Trfel I will attempt to make useful posts this game and hold hands and preach love but i'm not making any promises. Especially about the useful posts bit. | ||
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On November 14 2015 02:51 GlowingBear wrote: Ah, good, we're looking for more less experienced players I'm considering playing. I'd love to play a game with both truffle and Breshke in | ||
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Or maybe work on passing my exams XD | ||
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#AllisOne | ||
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On November 15 2015 08:50 rsoultin wrote: Hasn't that been a bit overused lately?/coach (the coaches ^^) | ||
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On November 16 2015 05:50 geript wrote: You're going to need to explain this.I'm not voting for VE ever. | ||
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FarahBlackwing, do you have a read on geript? | ||
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VisceraEyes makes two posts showing suspicion of The Shining. + Show Spoiler + On November 16 2015 05:35 VisceraEyes wrote: No townreads = trying to keep options open. Marfia. On November 16 2015 05:37 VisceraEyes wrote: Like statistically speaking you could just close your eyes and point at a townie, so the fact that you can't trust ANYONE with so many having posted is a huge red flag for me. After these posts, VisceraEyes treats The Shining like he is town, specifically by telling The Shining how to properly play as town. + Show Spoiler + On November 16 2015 05:43 VisceraEyes wrote: As for finding scum not town, it's infinitely easier to narrow down your search by correctly identifying townies. This is known. On November 16 2015 05:45 VisceraEyes wrote: And AS I said, it wasn't a random snap vote. It's a vote placed with reason. You may or may not agree with the reason, that's your prerogative and should affect whether or not you place your vote. Not mine. <3 Furthermore, Eversince's post on FarahBlackwing has a very large logical flaw, in that The Shining hadn't posted at the time. Eversince is comparing a townread based on actual posts to a vote with zero reason from this game, which does not work. VisceraEyes knows much better than this. This isn't VisceraEyes pushing The Shining, this is VisceraEyes reading incorrectly and flailing wildly at The Shining with words that don't match his stance. | ||
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On November 16 2015 06:21 FarahBlackwing wrote: Fair enough. I don't have a read on geript either XDNo I don't currently have a read concerning him. | ||
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I'm reasonably happy with FarahBlackwing and The Shining as town. | ||
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WHY do you two think that my read on VisceraEyes is bad? | ||
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On November 16 2015 22:43 NocturneMage wrote: Why is that not a good read to make? Please explain this to me yourself, don't quote someone else.Page 15 - I saw nothing wrong with Farah's posts until she unvoted and then made the general activity comment in post 288, few others commented out, but 1 hour into the game to say that it's not a good read to make at all. | ||
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On November 17 2015 04:58 NocturneMage wrote: Patience is a virtue ^^Trfel, since you are (or were?) here, what are your thoughts on VE's last post (the one that I have commented on plus those that are scumreading your case on VE? (post 412) I'm quite likely the slowest reader/poster in TL Mafia, unfortunately | ||
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Note: Eversince will be addressed in a following post 1. On Eversince and FarahBlackwing Eversince's initial post, voting for The Shining On November 16 2015 05:13 Eversince wrote: Eversince's later post explaining the clear flaw in the above argument:100% townread based on nothing last game I play with you. Last game: Farah town, hard read based on not much, Shining obvious town. This game: Farah ?, Shining mafia. 180 in gameplay = 180 in alignment Obviously mafia. ##vote: Farahblackwing Soooo mafia. Lynch today! On November 16 2015 06:30 Eversince wrote: To clarify, The Shining lurked bad last game I played with. Farah town reads him regardless. This game, Farah mafia reads The Shining. He had not even posted yet. Yeh! It's completely different play! Buggers! Sorry for pointin' it out! VisceraEyes responds to this is a way that doesn't make sense at all. Before my case on VisceraEyes and the second post above from Eversince, VisceraEyes posted these posts: On November 16 2015 05:33 VisceraEyes wrote: I actually like this a lot. ##Vote: Farahblackwing On November 16 2015 05:42 VisceraEyes wrote: I don't care if it's accurate - if they're mafia and lying someone will come in and say "Hey that's a lie" and I'll reevaluate then. At this point I'm taking the short meta read at face value, assuming it's true and taking the attempt as a townie attempt to find mafia - one that has possibly borne fruit. So no, I'm not just "blindly" jumping on a wagon. I like this particular wagon for the reasons given and I like the person who started it, as indicated in my post. On November 16 2015 05:45 VisceraEyes wrote: And AS I said, it wasn't a random snap vote. It's a vote placed with reason. You may or may not agree with the reason, that's your prerogative and should affect whether or not you place your vote. Not mine. <3 These three posts show that VisceraEyes is treating Eversince's first post seriously. He says that he likes Eversince's argument, and that he's townreading Eversince and scumreading FarahBlackwing because of it. Furthermore, he uses this repeatedly in his argument with The Shining, which apparently leads to a scumread of The Shining, shown by this post (among others): On November 16 2015 05:50 VisceraEyes wrote: You're getting awfully anxious about me trusting someone so early Shining, I have to say it looks really scummy to me. Why are you so against me having a townread on someone and a scumread on someone else? After my case and Eversince's post, showing that Eversince's early vote on FarahBlackwing had no basis, VisceraEyes says this: On November 16 2015 21:34 VisceraEyes wrote: Ok, so he wasn't being serious earlier. Not only did he make a joke, but then he defended his joke several times, to the point of scumreading The Shining for it.Also I'm back! ##Unvote I like the posts since my vote, and it wasn't super cereal anyway as many of you have clearly deduced. I just can't believe this. 2. General For the moment, let's assume that VisceraEyes was in fact joking with his first series of posts, and let's ignore that this makes no sense. VisceraEyes receives a bunch of town reads after he leaves, notably from geript and ritoky. Notice how VisceraEyes leaves in the same minute that geript posts a strong townread of him. VisceraEyes made three posts upon return, shown below: + Show Spoiler [VisceraEyes' Posts] + On November 16 2015 21:14 VisceraEyes wrote: I think it's both...the question itself was a little ambiguous so maybe he just answered it as best he could, including both townreads and mafiareads? On November 16 2015 21:34 VisceraEyes wrote: Also I'm back! ##Unvote I like the posts since my vote, and it wasn't super cereal anyway as many of you have clearly deduced. Most of the people actively posting I like, I think I dislike Fecal the mostest of anyone who's posted. The super hard townreads on me from geript and ritoky BOTH gave me massive wood. I think geript's might feel a little over-explainy, but I still can't bring myself to find it suspicious. Pocket achieved for both of you. So yeah, unless we're lynching a hard lurker, which I'm always down with, I think I prefer a Fecalfeast lynch. Aside from one townread on Ritoky, I really don't know what Fecal thinks in spite of his actively engaging with the thread. I'd believe GTA if that game weren't so old hat, I think he's just mafia trying to skate by. On November 16 2015 21:39 VisceraEyes wrote: ##Vote: Fecalfeast JUST IN CASE THERE WAS ANY DOUBT AS TO THE SERIOUSNESS OF MY POST!!!!!! VisceraEyes' next two posts are his thoughts about the game, and the only thoughts about the game that he's posted, assuming that his earlier posts were in jest. He says that he likes most of the people who have been posting (ok, so who doesn't he like then? not useful), and that he doesn't like Fecalfeast. I personally don't really like this Fecalfeast read, but whatever, it's sort of up for interpretation. But this is his ONLY read. Note that he spends a fair amount of this post responding to the townreads he's received. He's very aware of them, and this shows in his play. His activity tanked, he's not being useful or constructive, he made the terrible statement "I like most people who posted so far", which a perfect example of useless and lazy play. 3. Response to meta reads + Show Spoiler + On November 16 2015 05:50 geript wrote: Hm, people townreading VisceraEyes very strongly with little explanation. Where have I seen this before?I'm not voting for VE ever. This game. Everyone townread VisceraEyes for no reason. I thought VisceraEyes was scum. Everyone ignored me on the basis that "he's town". Guess what, he was scum. In fact, look at VisceraEyes' first post in that game. On August 26 2015 09:51 VisceraEyes wrote: Look familiar?Hi I'm town. Marv playing like Palmar makes me vom a little in my mouth. Otherwise I like most everyone who's posted so far. I don't see how the metareads given about VisceraEyes apply to this game. Either ~80% of his posts in this game were not serious, or he is clearly lying to try and explain his play. Ritoky's meta read has nothing to do with what I have presented, he didn't mention the posts related to this at all. As for geript's: On November 16 2015 06:13 geript wrote: I don't understand this read. I've seen VisceraEyes jump on things and not push them into oblivion as mafia, too. For example, look at the game I linked; VisceraEyes was scumreading both Palmar and I but when Palmar asked him to reread the entire game under the assumption that we were both town and then share his thoughts, he did so (or at least partially did so).Read other VE games. He's really easy to read when he gets semi active. Part of it is based in the fact that VE and I scum hunt rather differently. He takes on an egocentric (in the technical sense not in the asshole sense) view of other players; i.e. How he acts when he's scum and applies it to them. So when you see him jump on certain things in an accusatory way (especially when he's not trying to assream them) he's almost always town. My case stands for itself, I've had enough of random meta. | ||
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But Eversince is on drugs, and readily admitted the mistake. I'm giving Eversince a pass for now. I don't like scott31337's posts so far. His late entrance is very strange, I'm not used to him ignoring a game for so long after it began. He also didn't explain his reads, and followed thread sentiment. I don't see any real contributions from him so far. He doesn't seem to be trying to solve the game. | ||
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On November 17 2015 05:21 NocturneMage wrote: Eh.....Let me try and take a pass at Breshke. On a first read, it's a null but there are a few caveats. I took no issue with Breshke's filter so far from his reads alone. 333 and 377 (at least the first half) would warrant a town lean. 386 indicates he doesn't care what ritoky thinks. Alright. Here's where the potential problem comes in. I checked his posts relative to events in the thread. He asks a question about Trfel but as far as I can tell doesn't take a stance on Trfel, and I can go either way on that depending on what he would have done with that question. He doesn't take a stance on geript or VE but he talks about them "grilling" the Shining. Now here's the issue, geript is heavily involved in the game, VE is heavily involved in the game, Moosy had a really bad post before his response on the Shining to ritoky but that goes either missed or ignored. So this leads me to think Breshke is playing a "safe" game or might be taking that approach, and not wanting to draw attention/ruffle feathers/whatever you want to call it is a scum trait. I'm not familiar with how he plays the game so my read could just be way off target, but just looking at context alone, I have some concern he is focusing on the wrong things for the wrong reasons. (yes I checked the database, he's not inexperienced either) So I think until I see more from him on especially people being discussed as lynchables, I think it's a scumlean for him. thoughts? Breshke has a playstyle much like my own. He doesn't post very much, he doesn't lead the thread or push things, but when he says something, it's generally really really insightful and helpful. Breshke's only made four posts so far this game. The first post was a very good catch, and something that I'm definitely keeping in mind. I do like his read on The Shining, as well. He's also right in that The Shining's "statement of activity" isn't alignment indicative, because The Shining is extremely defensive (even as town) and posts that every single game he plays. So, his first post is insightful, as is his second post. His third post explains his second post (responding to ritoky's question), and his fourth post is a joke. I'm not really sure what you're getting at? Am I misunderstanding your post? I don't see how you can say that a player with only four posts is playing "safe" or not? | ||
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On November 17 2015 05:32 disformation wrote: Scott31337 didn't explain his reads, though. All he really said is that he didn't understand my post, and provided a bunch of weird reads on everyone else.I'm going ahead and respond to both of that. Since I remember scott as someone who does not post a lot, I don't think his late entry is alignment indicative. I kinda liked his entry because he was explained were he was at after catching up to the thread fairly well. Yeah, it was not that original. Maybe I am a bit biased because a lot of his views are very similar to mine... His sudden disappearance does worry me a bit though.. would like him to interact with a few ppl and/or to push his scum reads. While we are at that: ##vote MoosyDoosy @MoosyDoosy : Plx, explain your reads and answer my question. I also should maybe rethink my stance on VE since I pretty my like Trfel's case. I also do not feel like lynching Trfel atm. Here's disinformation's first two posts on me (Trfel): On November 16 2015 08:30 disformation wrote: Trfel.. kinda strange reaction to VE's uh... lets call it a poke. Not sure if his knee jerk reaction is maffay or town motivated. On November 17 2015 02:30 disformation wrote: Twenty minutes later (in which time I did not post), he posts this:Not enough to give Trfel a scum read, but I won't give him a town read either. On November 17 2015 02:50 disformation wrote: So to summarize: ppl I currently don't like: MoosyDoosy, Trfel, FF On November 17 2015 03:06 disformation wrote: How did disformation get from "I don't know about Trfel" to "Trfel is a top lynch" without any posts from me or explanation in between?Should add at least a bit of reasoning: All three are in dire need of contributing more and have exhibited a bit of suspicious actions. (MoosyDoosy buggering off without explaining his reads, Trefel explained a few posts above and FF being lurky as hell, with minimal contributions.) Combined with the random townread of scott31337, I'm suspicious. One more thing to add, disformation's been very active this game post-wise, but hasn't provided many reads. The first time he provided reads was when someone asked him. He seems to be excited to play, chomping at the bit to start the game, but instead of playing he's mostly commenting and questioning, and seems to be somewhat avoiding sharing his own reads. | ||
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On November 17 2015 05:46 NocturneMage wrote: So you're saying that Breshke is suspicious because he's not focusing on the important things in the thread, at the time that he was there?So let me re-word this. It's not activity that makes him safe. It's his activity within the context of the thread. Let me break it down. So what you need to do is go to where Breshke is commenting as other events are happening in the thread. Why does he focus on a Shining meta when especially in your eyes VE has done much worse and been more active. As in why does he focus on one event but not another? How does he miss Moosy who is quite scummy with his entrance? Look at the placement of the posts relative to the thread. That's what I'm saying. Again, I could be off target, if your experience on him is correct. It's not something that would have me pushing his lynch but it makes me question where his focus or how his focus is directed. Am I making sense here? I guess my question back to you is, how do you determine what the important things in the thread are? Isn't that a matter of opinion? I'll take a look at the context again, this kind of read is definitely valid and can be very powerful, but it's also extremely subjective, which makes it so, so difficult to apply correctly. | ||
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On November 17 2015 05:58 NocturneMage wrote: You have a point with the second sentence but when you read Breshke's filter, he talks about geript and VE "grilling" him. So he mentions them at the very least. It can be assumed that he's at least read and he makes a read on Shining but fails to take a stance on geript and VE. Now, I realise there are a lot of Americans in this game and maybe the word "grilling" has a different meaning or a different context to some people but he clearly has an opinion on what is happening but doesn't focus on VE one way whereas other people are. He even says geript taunts him (post 377) but doesn't focus further. Like in his world, something should have tipped him off. Maybe I'm reading too much into it. MoosyDoosy was not quite as active so he might get a pass if he may have failed to notice but On November 17 2015 06:00 NocturneMage wrote: Breshke, please answer this.edit: last sentence at Trfel - Moosy not quite as active, but there's no way he couldn't have followed up on VE/geript. NocturneMage, I think I see what you're getting at now. I'd like to see Breshke answer first. | ||
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On November 17 2015 06:07 disformation wrote: Looking closer, I think I see what you're saying in the first part. I misinterpreted your post about the people you don't like.Meh. Hm? Well you just happend to be one the three ppl I liked the least. My suspicions on you were posted. Also don't think my town lean on scott is random, but I should probably rethink scott, if he continues to not post. I also don't understand the bold part... if commenting and questioning is not playing, then can you please explain how to play? My words were poorly chosen there, playing does include commenting and questioning, I should have said "pushing". Do you have any thoughts on Fecalfeast's latest post(s)? (I forget how many posts he made and I'm too lazy to look) | ||
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His recent posts point to the former. On November 17 2015 05:52 VisceraEyes wrote: Trfel stop failing and find mafia. On November 17 2015 05:54 VisceraEyes wrote: First post suggests that I'm town, second post suggests that I'm mafia (I didn't post in between). No conclusion at all, no push. No comments on anything else, didn't even respond to my case.Like repeatedly failing to see what most everyone else sees, that I'm town and winning, is making you look slow. You're not a slow guy are you Trfel? | ||
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On November 17 2015 07:15 VisceraEyes wrote: Which of your posts were jokes and which of your posts were serious?Like I'm not responding to your case because you have decided on a conclusion and you are twisting everything to fit that narrative. You don't even consider a Towne motivation, you are just sure I'm mafia. And you are wrong. So yes, I'm not wasting time responding to a case when A) is not convincing anyone and B) it wouldn't make a difference one way or the other where you are concerned. | ||
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On November 16 2015 21:34 VisceraEyes wrote: Last question (I think), can you please specify who you like and who you don't (as described by the bolded portion of the above quote)?I like the posts since my vote, and it wasn't super cereal anyway as many of you have clearly deduced. Most of the people actively posting I like, I think I dislike Fecal the mostest of anyone who's posted. | ||
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What makes geript's ranking out of 7 post any different from a standard list post? | ||
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On November 17 2015 07:30 Breshke wrote: Hm, that's at least partially false based on VisceraEyes' explanation?Trefel do you think your case still holds water even though VE was just pressuring shining early so it can be assumed he didn't actually believe Eversinces read? I'm rereading his filter with that mindset, and I can sort of see it, but there's still a lot that is suspicious, a lot that doesn't make sense. I'm not entirely sure yet, I think I'll re-evaluate after dinner. | ||
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On November 17 2015 07:33 Breshke wrote: Sorry, I didn't mean your thoughts on VisceraEyes' stance on Fecalfeast, I was looking for your thoughts on VisceraEyes and Fecalfeast (two separate reads).I have no problem with VE's read on FF seems to be a classic " he isn't doing stuff so lynch him". IDK i said it was dumb but people normally do stuff out of 10 or a percent or like out of 5. He did 7 so someone could be like "Why the fuck is it out of 7" and he would need to explain which would bring more attention to his reads etc I don't really understand the whole 7 thing at all. You know that geript is a strong scum player, so why wouldn't he want attention to be paid to his reads? Is geript a player who hides in a corner as mafia? On November 17 2015 07:35 Breshke wrote: Trefel the bolded makes me fairly sure all the shining stuff was just pressure. Did he say otherwise? On November 17 2015 07:18 VisceraEyes wrote: Yes, he did.No jokes, I just want like SUPER sure of my vote the way I kept on andargued it. It was a content generation thing. | ||
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VisceraEyes, when you could get to a computer, if you could post the thoughts you had on the other players, that would be very helpful. Time to study for that exam. | ||
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On November 17 2015 08:11 MoosyDoosy wrote: Please explain why posts like this make FarahBlackwing mafia?Posts like this make Farah Mafia. And NM is town. | ||
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On November 17 2015 08:16 MoosyDoosy wrote: Not quite what I had in mind, but that works too.##Unvote ##Vote: MoosyDoosy Yes, let us get this over with. ##vote MoosyDoosy If you ever feel like answering my question, I'm listening. | ||
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MoosyDoosy, did you see FarahBlackwing's explanation of her townread of The Shining (explained previously)? I liked that read a lot. | ||
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On November 17 2015 08:38 FarahBlackwing wrote: Wait, FarahBlackwing, I assumed that you know Damdred? Is that false?Then your vote where your idea is instead of doing the opposite of what you said you would do. And not sure what you are referring to with the like Damdred thing and putting my gender in quotation marks. I really do not care if I am eliminated at this stage. | ||
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On November 17 2015 08:43 NocturneMage wrote: But meta is so much fun! This is a newbie game, how else are we to torture the new players?Bloody hell will you people please stop using meta? What happened to sleeping, anyway? (what happened to studying, anyway, Trfel.....) | ||
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On November 17 2015 08:44 Fecalfeast wrote: My only worry is that I think he's done this enough times that it might actually be a viable play for him as mafia.##unvote I'm going to completely ignore moose for the rest of this game but I believe that he is really being that much of a female dog about rolling town. And I simply refuse to lose a game because I fell for this. I just can't see the town motivation for asking to be lynched and pushing an actual scumread. I can see how that fits mafia motivation, but those two things simply do not fit together for town. | ||
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On November 17 2015 08:48 ritoky wrote: You need to make your family play mafia now Wait what? I wonder if my soul read can be a family thing. Dat shit would be OP, have to try it. | ||
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On November 17 2015 08:59 ritoky wrote: Same explanation as before, or different?oh yeah i forgot to mention this earlier, but trfel is wrong about VE still, but that probably doesn't make him mafia that probably just makes him derp. Do you have any other reads? | ||
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On November 17 2015 09:02 NocturneMage wrote: Hm, I could use my Half the Sky read methods on you and probably drive you insane ^^Farah said last game her husband was Damdred. Once youre finished with her then try to read me, my wife's played on TL the last year lol so you probably know how to read her too xD Anyhow, I'm seriously catching up now, I know I missed a few posts from Breshke. Don't tempt me, meta hater | ||
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If you'd like to wait for FarahBlackwing to answer first, that's fine. | ||
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On November 17 2015 09:17 FarahBlackwing wrote: The problem is that he knows this, and he knows that people will say this......Because he did something similar to this last game we played as town, and from what I understand have been informed on he tries a bit harder as scum doesn't roll over. Ugh, this is so frustrating. | ||
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On November 17 2015 09:22 FarahBlackwing wrote: Ugh, I hate this so much, but I guess you're probably right...Sure he could, but shoot him/cop check him instead of using a lynch on him if you are so inclined. ##unvote Scott31337 or VisceraEyes stand out the most to me right now. Waiting for Fecalfeast to post his filter analysis, though. | ||
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On November 17 2015 09:28 Fecalfeast wrote: I don't need post-by-post. I don't want post-by-post. If you post an analysis of every single one of FarahBlackwing's posts I will policy lynch you.It's a 1.5 page filter but I can do a post by post if my blurb isn't sufficient. I have it open in other tabs still Was there anything in FarahBlackwing's filter that looked good to you? You seem to say that you didn't find anything wrong, did you find anything right? | ||
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Do you plan on doing something about that in the near future? | ||
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On November 17 2015 09:41 Fecalfeast wrote: You had two scumreads, VisceraEyes and MoosyDoosy. You're no longer scumreading both of them.VE went from scum to null but sure. What are you even asking here? "FF you gonna keep playing?" I was just wanting your thoughts on that, that's all. How much past experience do you have with MoosyDoosy? Anyway, off to my exam. | ||
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I won't be able to catch up by the deadline. But scott31337 hasn't shown critical thinking, and his activity has been pretty awful. This post shows a lack of critical thinking in particular, he's trying to say stuff, trying to make an argument, but all he really says is that MoosyDoosy is town because he's town, and because he did the same thing last game as town (which obviously does not make him town). Scott31337 still hasn't taken a stance on me, despite saying that he would many hours ago. Given the lack of original reads and thinking in his posts, I find him getting so upset at MoosyDoosy's play difficult to believe. | ||
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FarahBlackwing's post about The Shining was very good, particularly with regards to The Shining's slight shows of emotion this game. It's very different from The Shining's most recent mafia game. I could lynch MoosyDoosy, but I'm more confident in scott31337. MoosyDoosy is a wild card, scott31337 generally puts forward a good effort as town. | ||
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On November 18 2015 01:11 disformation wrote: I guess, I feel like time will take care of MoosyDoosy a bit better than it will scott31337. Scott31337 will probably continue to play in about the same way, and I feel like his play to this point is very revealing already (more what's not there than what is).@Trfel I get your what you are saying on MoosyDoosy vs Scott and I could vote for both atm, but: as you said MoosyDoosy is a wildcard. How do you propose we handle him? I fear he will just continue to be a wildcard and at some point town has to deal with that. MoosyDoosy's play certainly can't become any less helpful, as he's shown some investment to the game despite asking to be lynched. It's hard to explain my thoughts, maybe I'm just being insane, but I can't see him playing for a significant period of time while putting a bit of effort into the game and also asking to be lynched. And whatever change he makes from that balance would probably be telling. | ||
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On November 18 2015 01:45 NocturneMage wrote: I'm kind of here, it's a bit complicated, I'd rather not get into it.....Wait, Trfel you are here. You're not on my lynch list but can you explain unless I missed it somewhere, you dropped the scumread on VE or concluded at some point in your filter that VE might not be mafia and then you looked to him and Scott again. So what changed? I think that VisceraEyes looks a bit scummy right now, but I would rather lynch scott31337. On November 17 2015 07:18 VisceraEyes wrote: This post is the thing I hadn't considered, while I don't like the explanation it makes more sense than what I was considering before.No jokes, I just want like SUPER sure of my vote the way I kept on andargued it. It was a content generation thing. I haven't had enough time to fully re-evaluate VisceraEyes, but given that almost everyone is reluctant to lynch him today, it's kind of an irrelevant point for now. | ||
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This push onto Breshke is so mafia-motivated. I don't trust geript at all here. Look at scott31337's townread of geript. He just says that geript is a top town. Notice that he repeatedly says "Trfel could be scum or he could be town" in response to me solving the game and pushing my ideas. He never describes any difference between me and geript, just uses the fact that I had one good game as scum to avoid townreading me. But geript is better than me at mafia, by far, and scott31337 knows this. It's impossible for him not to know that geript is extremely skilled as mafia. So now geript comes up with this push out of nowhere to prevent scott31337 from being lynched? I don't like this one bit. | ||
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On November 18 2015 02:24 geript wrote: Look at geript's read on scott31337. It's all association, there is no response to the actual case on him. Geript is avoiding defending scott31337's play, because he knows that it can't be done.Scott 4.5/7--He's still null-ish. This seems kinda funny, but I don't really get the sense that anyone is trying to shield or direct votes towards him. Trfel iirc was the first to sorta toss a vote his way and it didn't seem bussy for cred or protecty for Moosy. It feels a bit TvT on the lynch and his catching up post about ~p30 (or around that area) kinda had similar thoughts to where I thought I was when I was catching up. | ||
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On November 18 2015 04:24 FarahBlackwing wrote: Scott31337 had a very good chance of being lynched. That's easy to see.Why do you have a town read on Breshke Trfel? And why does it specifically have to be mafia motivated at this juncture? And why would geript who previously had a scum read on moos instead of jumping on the easier mislynch (when scott isn't even anywhere close to being lynched) push with breshke instead. That makes little sense. Scott wasn't about to be lynched it was like 4 v 2 in favor of moos. IF scott is mafia geript has no reason to push breshke? I'll get back to you in a bit on Breshke, but I don't see the arguments against him at all. | ||
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That does not come from town. He doesn't even address the argument that I brought up against VisceraEyes, he just says that he needs to figure out my alignment. He doesn't even seem to consider my argument important to determining my alignment, he doesn't talk about it at all. He has actually done zero this game. Zero. | ||
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On November 18 2015 04:28 FarahBlackwing wrote: Well, you're simply wrong, the lynch was going to be between MoosyDoosy and scott31337. Given how erratic MoosyDoosy's play is, the lynch balance is extremely up in the air. Any sort of shift away from MoosyDoosy would result in scott31337 being lynched.Actually I really don't think scott had much momentum at all going for him but that's just me and saying that geript is pushing breshke over scott is a gross misrepresentation of the game state. | ||
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I know what I'm talking about. I'm sick and tired of trying to explain things to people who aren't listening. | ||
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Looking through Breshke's filter, here's his direction: Early question to Eversince, ends in town lean Townread on The Shining Town lean on geript and ritoky Scum read on MoosyDoosy Investigating VisceraEyes Willing to lynch MoosyDoosy, Fecalfeast, and scott31337, still trying to figure out VisceraEyes Votes for MoosyDoosy The interesting thing here is that he's actually engaging with his scumreads and trying to get more information. He questioned VisceraEyes with a very sensible progression. His reads make sense and his pushes all have a followup. | ||
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On November 18 2015 04:37 disformation wrote: It's not a lack of time thing. Town with a lack of time doesn't produce scott31337's filter.Yes that is right. What gives me a bit of pause is the cousin with MS thing... By dick move analysis I think scott would not fake this. So he might have genuinely had no time? At least my gut feeling is telling me so. Brain says his filter is... uh... bad. Scott31337's filter shows zero thinking and zero desire to solve the game. Town with lack of time produces a short, incomplete filter that attempts to solve the game with limited time. The two are completely different. | ||
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Here's the reads summary of scott31337's first post. On November 17 2015 00:47 scott31337 wrote: Why is the "not lynching right now but want to see more" category even included?Trfel and Moosy would be my top lynches right now - Eversince 3rd - I'm just not seeing that town spark with all the posting. I thought Breshke's first post asking questions was okay but then fell off. Ritoky/VE/Geript top towns NM/FBW/The Shining not lynching right now but want to see more Breshke/FF in the meh category ##Vote: Trfel The reasoning is very lacking. "I'm not seeing the spark" for Eversince's posting, but just read any one Eversince post, it's very obviously pointed and shows a unique mindset. This is a really useless phrase and I don't understand how this is true. On November 17 2015 05:54 scott31337 wrote: This is an extremely useless comment. This says actually nothing. Yet he doesn't unvote until later, and has NEVER come to a conclusion about this. The random unvote timing makes no sense. The lack of analysis of my case makes no sense, he's not even trying.I was able to actually follow this case and see your point of view, unlike your first "case". Now I need to decide if you are actually town - or posting scummy cases like you did in http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/486978-newbie-student-mafia-xi and try to mislynch everyone to win. The fact that he repeats this non-argument, useless comment suggests that he's just trying to avoid my argument instead of address it. He can't scumread me and he knows it, but he's avoiding townreading me and avoiding listening to what I have to say. Finally, look at his progression on MoosyDoosy. 1. MoosyDoosy is mafia! 2. MoosyDoosy is town for martyring, he did this last game as mafia 3. Votes MoosyDoosy because he wants to kill lazy town ZERO changed between 2 and 3. Zero. He expected that MoosyDoosy would stop martyring and actually play? Scott31337 shows zero thinking and zero read progression. This is not a town mindset at all. | ||
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On November 17 2015 00:47 scott31337 wrote: Trfel and Moosy would be my top lynches right now - Eversince 3rd - I'm just not seeing that town spark with all the posting. On November 17 2015 11:19 scott31337 wrote: In this post, scott31337 is treating MoosyDoosy like 100% town? What?His ass was town in the last game too and did this. Playing against wincon is not cool. See even if Moosy sucks and I decide not to play with him in the future if he's town - this should not get you down either. A depressed town is a failtown. Please do not! We waited so long for this game to start. Okay? I'm at page 28 and would rather watch the Football game then read this. ##Unvote I may be back later, or on tomorrow. On November 17 2015 14:42 scott31337 wrote: Fuck Moosy and his lazy ass town game We will not have it. On November 18 2015 02:00 scott31337 wrote: Nothing changed. Nothing at all. Except for scott31337's read, it did a 180.I have a meeting to go to and then a site to install some AP's. I'll be back before deadline, hopefully - and still only to page 32. ##Vote: Moosydoosy | ||
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This is why I shouldn't lead, I seem to be completely unable to lynch scum. | ||
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On November 18 2015 13:09 MoosyDoosy wrote: At this point I barely care if geript is town or not, I don't want to deal with him at all.hi Trfel o/ hang around for a bit please. And geript is town. All he's saying is that I'm bad, no reasoning. He's discrediting me without explaining why, he's not trying to work with me at all. I've responded to the few points he's actually raised, which he's promptly ignored. I can't stand playing with people who refuse to work with me. And geript is a huge example of that. | ||
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I don't think that those posts show that disinformation is too self-conscious and defensive. Also, disformation has been very active, he currently has the longest filter in the game. You're right in that the way he finally ends up voting for scott31337 looks really suspicious, that doesn't match his earlier posting. That really stands out to me. I'll let disformation speak for himself. | ||
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On November 18 2015 13:50 MoosyDoosy wrote: ROFL XDwow congrats for pulling up something in my case that I just accidentally lost! go to filter and look at the very next post after that. Hahahaha, you made my night | ||
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On November 18 2015 14:46 geript wrote: I'll address the rest of geript's posts later. But this post is the most ridiculous.My points on Breshke covered this entirely. Breshke should not be read on his reads. It's about how he interacts with and acts in response to what's happening in the thread. Him blandly asking questions that go no where and lead to no conclusions is part of his scum meta. So what Trfel has pointed towards is specifically his scum meta and Trfel is trying to paint him town for it. Geript's claims are simply not true. I've tried to illustrate that by describing Breshke's thought process and read progression, Breshke's filter shows questions that are probing his suspects. And Breshke is certainly coming to conclusions, "willing to lynch" is a pretty strong conclusion. Read Breshke's filter for yourself and it's obvious. | ||
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On November 18 2015 23:55 disformation wrote: What the heck is a "fear read" anyway?Now what I found in Trfel's filter: Isn't that whole post basically a fear read on geript? Fear reads are bad mkay. Is he trying to sow distraction? Not a fan but I need to read his filter for conclusions. | ||
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My case on VisceraEyes still stands. VisceraEyes had a sort-of plausible explanation for the main point of my case, however his recent lack of activity is extremely mafia-motivated. He vanished right after people started scumreading him less, right after he was pretty safe from the Day 1 lynch. And he hasn't come back since. There's no risk of him being lynched tonight, so there's no point in him playing. This feels like mafia who is being lazy and playing to survive, but he knows that he won't be able to survive for too long and that's killing his motivation. I thought that FarahBlackwing was probably town, but MoosyDoosy's case brought up several good points. FarahBlackwing's response, however, was even more suspicious. FarahBlackwing hasn't shown much determination at all lately, and her unwillingness to seriously answer the case is not at all what I would expect from town. She said she's busy today, I guess I'll give her a day before I make any conclusions. | ||
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On November 19 2015 04:38 FarahBlackwing wrote: Can you please respond to the points that MoosyDoosy brought up?Trfel obviously not reading the game In a more direct manner than you "have", since you failed to address the points with the most merit? I'm not the only one who liked parts of MoosyDoosy's case. | ||
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Early read on The Shining + Show Spoiler + On November 16 2015 05:52 geript wrote: I don't like Shining. He feels really different; not because he's posting a bit more than I remember him. His posting just seems off and not pointed to me. On November 16 2015 15:16 geript wrote: Hm, that's strange. Where did The Shining go?I'm 99% sure I've coached disinformation. I just can't remember if it was as scum or town. I really want to look at that before I give a full read on him. The bolded doesn't terribly mark me either way other than the question mark. He's made what would seem to be questions out of statements a few times. He kinda bugs me a bit but without going back to see how he thinks it's hard to say if it's scummy or just bad play. Right now. 7/7---VE/Ritoky 6/7-- 5/7-- 4.5/7--Farah 4/7--everyone else 3.5/7--Breshke 3/7--Disinfo 2/7--Trfel 1/7--Moosy I'm seriously like 99% sure moosy is scum. On November 17 2015 17:16 geript wrote: One last post. I'll be up around noon hopefully to look at things. I think Shinig or moosy would be my lynch choice. On November 18 2015 02:24 geript wrote: Two more posts about The Shining from geript's filter.Shining 5.5/7--I could be wrong on him; it's not just the fact that he's quoting in every post or thereabouts. He's no over explainy which he does as mafia. He's not really disconnected from the thread. He's had a good thought or two. Meta fits which is enough for now. I don't understand this progression, at all. Geript started out by saying that The Shining is mafia, then completely dropped his read on him, then put him as a top lynch, then decided that he's likely town for things that have already been said. On November 18 2015 01:05 Trfel wrote: Here's a post that I made before geript's post here, townreading The Shining. FarahBlackwing said similar things as well. These points were clearly visible before, geript just ignored them until he came back with this list post. He didn't reference any of the people who had posted the same thoughts before. Basically geript wasn't paying attention to one of his top scumreads.I don't want to lynch The Shining. He said that he was trying to do more work right when the game began to make up for not being able to play Monday and Tuesday, and his posting rate was much higher than it generally is. In addition to activity, his posts show attempts to gain information. Many of The Shining's scum games show fewer, larger posts to try and stay alive, rather than trying to pressure things to gain information. FarahBlackwing's post about The Shining was very good, particularly with regards to The Shining's slight shows of emotion this game. It's very different from The Shining's most recent mafia game. I could lynch MoosyDoosy, but I'm more confident in scott31337. MoosyDoosy is a wild card, scott31337 generally puts forward a good effort as town. This isn't 100% clear, I don't have time to explain it fully, but nothing changed in a very long time with The Shining, since he was busy and afk after the early portion of the game. These same points were clear the entire time. Many of geript's posts are just criticizing others for no reason/bad reasons + Show Spoiler + On November 17 2015 15:30 geript wrote: Breshke makes a point that leads him to a town lean on geript. I questioned it, and Breshke responded. The discussion ended there, and then geript made the above post about 8 hours later. Town!geript shouldn't care about this, because the discussion has been long since over, and because the conclusion isn't incorrect. Geript is not drawing any conclusion himself from this post, either. There's just zero reason for this post to be made as town.There's really nothing special about it. For scientific studies, usually we talk about rating things on an odd scale (5 or 7 usually). 1 and 7 are extremes; 4 is exactly in the middle, 2-3 and 5-6 leaning but not there. It just actually fits things better: 7/7=total town no doubts 6/7=90% town but some doubts 5/7=more likely town than not but ??? 4/7=null 3/7=more likely scum than not but ??? 2/7=90% scum but some doubts 1/7=total scum Like this is such an irrelevant point. get back to something important. On November 17 2015 15:22 geript wrote: Bold emphasis mine.Trfel has stayed teh same; but I kinda don't want to lynch him D1 because I remembered when I woke up that Tina says he always looks scummy D1 but gets better. I didn't like his stuff on Disinfo; just felt over inflated. It's not awful, but it is a bit over inflated it hink Given that I said here that I messed up and misinterpreted something for the most important point of my post, geript's statement is an extremely accurate description. Which in no way makes me mafia, it means that I messed up. His conclusion comes from nowhere. Running out of time, there are more examples, but I need to get this out before the deadline. Finally, geript's reads on Breshke and me don't show anything. Geript never addressed the points about my case on VisceraEyes, one of his strongest townreads. He just said that my case is awful. When I said that he never addressed my case, he posted criticisms of a few random thoughts on scott31337. He didn't even comment on my more complete case on scott31337, he commented on the extremely brief summary. He also drastically misrepresents my statements. His read on Breshke involves a ton of claims that just aren't true. On November 18 2015 14:46 geript wrote: Breshke doesn't have questions that go nowhere, and he definitely has drawn conclusions. I described that in the very post that he quoted. Geript just said "no, Trfel is misrepresenting things" without addressing that my argument is based on facts which were clearly laid out in the post.My points on Breshke covered this entirely. Breshke should not be read on his reads. It's about how he interacts with and acts in response to what's happening in the thread. Him blandly asking questions that go no where and lead to no conclusions is part of his scum meta. So what Trfel has pointed towards is specifically his scum meta and Trfel is trying to paint him town for it. Conclusion I'm not completely sure on geript yet. He seems really scummy, but he also has a large ego as town. Geript, if you are town, humor me for a moment. Explain things in a way that a lesser player (aka the vast majority of this game) can understand (aka no meta, and a clear connection between evidence and conclusions). Why is Breshke mafia? Why is VisceraEyes town? Why are the points that I have brought up invalid? I've demonstrated how my conclusions come from the thread, it's your turn. | ||
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On November 19 2015 04:48 disformation wrote: Okay, well you're simply wrong.Sry missed this. Eatings right now. A fear read is basically this "geript is super good as mafia, he could pull this off as mafia!" part you put in italics. You know as in I fear he could be mafia, because that would be very bad for town, so I need to be super suspicious of him. You don't apply this directly to geript but indirectly via this scott association thing. But you don't have any other evidence of geript being mafia than this association-fear read thing. Several times I've described that geript's play does not make sense at all to me. I still haven't put it all in one place, I ran out of time with the above post. But geript's play has a ton of things that I'm suspicious of. | ||
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I don't even know any more. | ||
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I know I'm not the only one who asked for that. Would FarahBlackwing fakeclaim here as town? I would think not, but am I wrong? | ||
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On November 17 2015 08:38 FarahBlackwing wrote: I can't see this coming from a person who would fakeclaim here as town. That settles that.Then your vote where your idea is instead of doing the opposite of what you said you would do. And not sure what you are referring to with the like Damdred thing and putting my gender in quotation marks. I really do not care if I am eliminated at this stage. | ||
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On November 19 2015 07:13 ritoky wrote: Wait, what? Story time.she is a new player, they are more prone to get ants in their pants and claim stupidly or too early than to make a fake claim that they know will get them into a screaming match w/ 40+ hours left in the day....unless you're me and fake claim cop your 2nd game ever. | ||
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On November 19 2015 07:33 FarahBlackwing wrote: Why does it matter so much to you if the vigilante claims now or not? The vigilante will claim when the time is correct in their own judgement.Because the correct play is for the vigilante to claim as the day begins to have as much information as possible. The only time a vigilante should not claim is with multiple shots. Like, imagine that the vigilante claims right now. How does this help you more as opposed to the vigilante claiming later? | ||
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I'm really, really considering lynching FarahBlackwing here. The only reason for her to claim this early is that she doesn't have enough time to properly defend herself. On November 19 2015 06:53 FarahBlackwing wrote: So she's really busy, but she spent time trying to guess who the vigilante is (of all things) instead of responding to the case? Instead of trying to find mafia?I'll head this off now probably not enough time to fight off a snowball. Hard claiming blue. On November 19 2015 07:38 FarahBlackwing wrote: This is in no way a justification for the time spent.Read what I wrote and apply it. Information is king withholding information when you are a glorified vt now is anti-town especially the leathery out wait the more mafia can mess with town. To me, it almost feels like FarahBlackwing's attempts to find the vigilante were to figure out what the thread influence would look like post-claim, which is useful to know if she's mafia. Especially if she's mafia trying to do something like fakeclaim. Fecalfeast doesn't have a large amount of thread presence, and imagining for a moment that he became confirmed town by claiming vigilante, I don't think that much would change. Meaning that mafia thread influence would be maximized, encouraging a fakeclaim. | ||
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On November 19 2015 07:49 FarahBlackwing wrote: Then can you please answer the points that MoosyDoosy brought up?Never lynch an uncc blue your dumb otherwise. Can you please explain how it is beneficial to try and figure out who the vigilante is? | ||
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On November 19 2015 07:56 ritoky wrote: Okay, so let's assume for a moment that you're right, and the vigilante is stupid for not claiming.because at worst the vigi is just a confirmed town which lowers the lynch pool by 1 (2 if farah is legit). at best the vigi baits a cc from mafia and we get a 1:1. there is actually 0 reason to not claim as vigi post-shot unless they are trying to avoid having me tell them why they are stupid for shooting geript or ve. We find who the vigilante is, then we know who is stupid. Yay? The vigilante wouldn't avoid claiming if they're under a sufficient amount of suspicion anyway, no matter what. So you can assume that the vigilante isn't that highly suspected. So IT DOESN'T MATTER. | ||
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On November 19 2015 08:10 ritoky wrote: Okay, that's simply not my point. I just cannot see how it is at all beneficial to try and figure out who the vigilante is.it is the denial of a universal TR to town for what i can only assume is a lack of understanding of mechanics or selfish reasons...it is just anti-town to not claim; if you don't understand then your mechanics are not strong enough. It will always be heavily speculative until they claim. Furthermore, the simple fact that they aren't claiming suggests that the gain for town is not all that large. | ||
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On November 19 2015 08:14 FarahBlackwing wrote: Of course the vigilante will claim if they're at risk of being lynched. That was never in question.Yeah that's dumb. Vigilante should always claim after he's out of bullets. For the same reason self aware Miller's and named vanilla townies should claim. More confirmed people leads town to better lynched. I have three 8 hour third shifts with mandatory overtime recertification in the mornings. My time is precious. Assuming that the vigilante is not currently at risk of being lynched, which is an extremely safe assumption, why do you care about the vigilante claiming more than you do finding mafia? | ||
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On November 19 2015 08:23 FarahBlackwing wrote: Sure.##unvote ##Vote farahblackwing Lets ride ##vote FarahBlackwing | ||
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On November 19 2015 08:33 Fecalfeast wrote: But when it's this bad? And when the person claiming is being this malicious?Ritoky is correct. Even if the claim feels like buttcheeks it's still uncc'd And right after we saw MoosyDoosy avoid a lynch through martyring? This simply isn't town play. Giving up a power role for this is not a trade that should even need to happen. | ||
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On November 19 2015 08:39 Fecalfeast wrote: Yeah, okay.1. Unless someone claims a vig shot on Geript, he was the only one adamant about trfel being scum and was getting upset that nobody listened to him. 2. His day 1 suspicions from his filter: VE, Moose, Scott, Me. I know 3/4 of those are town 100% while moose is showing some towny play since yesterday. 3. Totally willing to vote an uncc'd blue because she's martyring. Did you read the reasons for my scumreads? Particularly the geript one? | ||
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On November 19 2015 03:45 FarahBlackwing wrote: This post was made 15 minutes before the deadline.Confirmed Town: Scott Farah I think They Are Town: Shining Geript Moos NocturneMage I thought they were town now they are falling VE Eversince Ritoky Not Sure Disformation Breshke Trfel Good Chance of Scum FF I haven't done much research this game like I did last game, Ritoky could move into the Not sure and so could VE. Ever I hope comes back. And its still forming a bit and the game is rather hard at this juncture. On November 19 2015 05:06 FarahBlackwing wrote: Six minutes after the deadline.Ok, ##vote breshke claim vigilante Breshke and Fecalfeast both did not make any posts in between. There is zero reason for FarahBlackwing's read to change. This is the only piece of scumhunting that FarahBlackwing has done today, if you call it that. She's made a ton of posts trying to find the vigilante, and a ton of posts saying that she isn't going to explain anything or work with anyone. But no time to actually find scum. Or perhaps more accurately, no desire to actually find scum. I can't really see how there is any doubt. | ||
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On November 19 2015 08:58 Fecalfeast wrote: So do I, stupid exams.I can't say I'm tunneled on you trfel but right now that's where my brain is. I've only just been in your filter and i will take a closer look later. I've still got shit to do right now tho Please answer my question here as soon as you get a chance. | ||
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On November 19 2015 09:00 FarahBlackwing wrote: This explanation is completely false.Trfel also doesn't show that I did want to lynch Breske yesterday before I got cold feet. Breshke was geript top scum read and a few posts later I felt ff was the vigilante. Saying that Fecalfeast is scum and being unsure about Breshke and then voting for Breshke is fine. The problem is that FarahBlackwing never bothered to post the reasons that Breshke is mafia. Today, she's said "the vigilante is stupid for not claiming" and "I'm not going to cooperate", but she hasn't said "I think that this person is mafia, and here is why". There's no new thought that FarahBlackwing arrived at to explain how she got to a scumread of Breshke. The read change is completely made up. Also, FarahBlackwing's suspicions of Fecalfeast being the vigilante had nothing to do with this at all, as shown by her asking for the vigilante to claim in the same post where she voted for Breshke. | ||
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On November 19 2015 09:58 NocturneMage wrote: This is completely true, I didn't realize that it was assumed the opposite. I'm sorry.also post 1129, Trfel is using the word malicious as in mafia agenda. Not that you were insulting, but your play is mafia play. | ||
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I really hope that all is well with the surgery. | ||
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I don't use meta that much, honestly. My read on scott31337 wasn't really a meta read. My read was, scott31337 isn't trying to solve the game, therefore he's mafia. The only real "meta" part of this read is that scott31337 tries to solve the game as town (if he didn't he would probably be on the ban list). The rest of the read was just explanations and bonus, the above is the core read. I need to go to class in a few minutes, don't know what to think about Damdred yet, but it's probably best to give him some time. ##unvote I definitely need to re-evaluate Breshke and disinformation, I'll do that soon I hope. Exam tomorrow, though, which I really really really really need to study for T.T One more thing, about Eversince, it's not really that I want to try and guess what the hosts will do, but I just don't feel there is enough information to try and read Eversince (especially given that she was likely on drugs when she was posting). I don't even want to try to read her because it seems like a hopeless task. | ||
Trfel
6496 Posts
Can you summarize what points you're trying to make, so I can actually figure out what you're trying to say? I think you're trying to compare my reads with geript's reads, because geript is flipped town which makes him 100% right. So if I'm town, and I have enough experience, my reads should be the same. Well, this is false, because geript and I are different players and we play differently. We have different opinions on a lot of things and that's simply what works. Geript has this entire "meta sheet" that he used for his reads and I have nothing like that. One example of this is shown in geript's read of The Shining. Geript really disliked FarahBlackwing's townread of The Shining, which I really liked. Look at the obs qt for Battle of the Drams mafia, you can see Damdred and I discussing how to read The Shining for a bit, which is very similar to what FarahBlackwing said. And it's the same as what Damdred said in this game. As for my experience with Breshke, look at Noir Mafia Chapter 3. Breshke was on the lynch table for the entire game. That game, he played below his expectations as town. He doesn't always play his very best (let's be honest, no one does). Don't have time to try and piece through what you're saying in the rest of this, but you're not even addressing the arguments that I've made this game. How can you attempt to say what I "should have known" without looking at my reasoning? | ||
Trfel
6496 Posts
I'll try to answer a little more clearly. | ||
Trfel
6496 Posts
On scott31337 + Show Spoiler + On November 20 2015 01:20 NocturneMage wrote: I believe that the argument is that I have played enough times with scott31337 that I "should have known his meta better". Part 1 of 3: Trfel's expectation on Scott posted previously - link below with previous questions part 1: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/497023-newbie-student-mafia-xvii-fullmetal-edition?page=60#1198 geript's initial callout: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/497023-newbie-student-mafia-xvii-fullmetal-edition?page=60#1195 The only thing that NocturneMage actually mentioned is quoting a geript post, the relevant parts below:
I didn't attack one post of scott31337's, my reasons for scumreading him were based on his entire filter. I never actually presented a complete case on scott31337, as I thought that his filter spoke for itself. I've demonstrated why the things I brought up are important. For reference, here is my most comprehensive case on scott31337: On November 18 2015 04:52 Trfel wrote: Again, the big point is that nothing he's doing shows any desire to solve the game.Quick Summary of scott31337's Filter Here's the reads summary of scott31337's first post.Why is the "not lynching right now but want to see more" category even included? The reasoning is very lacking. "I'm not seeing the spark" for Eversince's posting, but just read any one Eversince post, it's very obviously pointed and shows a unique mindset. This is a really useless phrase and I don't understand how this is true. This is an extremely useless comment. This says actually nothing. Yet he doesn't unvote until later, and has NEVER come to a conclusion about this. The random unvote timing makes no sense. The lack of analysis of my case makes no sense, he's not even trying. The fact that he repeats this non-argument, useless comment suggests that he's just trying to avoid my argument instead of address it. He can't scumread me and he knows it, but he's avoiding townreading me and avoiding listening to what I have to say. Finally, look at his progression on MoosyDoosy. 1. MoosyDoosy is mafia! 2. MoosyDoosy is town for martyring, he did this last game as mafia 3. Votes MoosyDoosy because he wants to kill lazy town ZERO changed between 2 and 3. Zero. He expected that MoosyDoosy would stop martyring and actually play? Scott31337 shows zero thinking and zero read progression. This is not a town mindset at all. Again, this isn't something that you can debate with meta. If you're not trying to solve the game, you're either mafia or you should be banned. On VisceraEyes + Show Spoiler + I believe that the argument here is that I have played five games with VisceraEyes, and that VisceraEyes always looks scummy and is an easy target. It's true that VisceraEyes doesn't tend to be extremely towny as town, however that doesn't make him an easier lynch target. Mafia motivation is always mafia motivation, regardless of player skill. Much of my case on VisceraEyes directly involved mafia motivation, the rest of it suggested mafia motivation. Again, look at my arguments for scumreading VisceraEyes. On November 17 2015 05:05 Trfel wrote: In this very post, I addressed the meta arguments presented to townread VisceraEyes as I understand them.VisceraEyes (again) Note: Eversince will be addressed in a following post 1. On Eversince and FarahBlackwing Eversince's initial post, voting for The Shining Eversince's later post explaining the clear flaw in the above argument: VisceraEyes responds to this is a way that doesn't make sense at all. Before my case on VisceraEyes and the second post above from Eversince, VisceraEyes posted these posts: These three posts show that VisceraEyes is treating Eversince's first post seriously. He says that he likes Eversince's argument, and that he's townreading Eversince and scumreading FarahBlackwing because of it. Furthermore, he uses this repeatedly in his argument with The Shining, which apparently leads to a scumread of The Shining, shown by this post (among others): After my case and Eversince's post, showing that Eversince's early vote on FarahBlackwing had no basis, VisceraEyes says this:Ok, so he wasn't being serious earlier. Not only did he make a joke, but then he defended his joke several times, to the point of scumreading The Shining for it. I just can't believe this. 2. General For the moment, let's assume that VisceraEyes was in fact joking with his first series of posts, and let's ignore that this makes no sense. VisceraEyes receives a bunch of town reads after he leaves, notably from geript and ritoky. Notice how VisceraEyes leaves in the same minute that geript posts a strong townread of him. VisceraEyes made three posts upon return, shown below: + Show Spoiler [VisceraEyes' Posts] + On November 16 2015 21:14 VisceraEyes wrote: I think it's both...the question itself was a little ambiguous so maybe he just answered it as best he could, including both townreads and mafiareads? On November 16 2015 21:34 VisceraEyes wrote: Also I'm back! ##Unvote I like the posts since my vote, and it wasn't super cereal anyway as many of you have clearly deduced. Most of the people actively posting I like, I think I dislike Fecal the mostest of anyone who's posted. The super hard townreads on me from geript and ritoky BOTH gave me massive wood. I think geript's might feel a little over-explainy, but I still can't bring myself to find it suspicious. Pocket achieved for both of you. So yeah, unless we're lynching a hard lurker, which I'm always down with, I think I prefer a Fecalfeast lynch. Aside from one townread on Ritoky, I really don't know what Fecal thinks in spite of his actively engaging with the thread. I'd believe GTA if that game weren't so old hat, I think he's just mafia trying to skate by. On November 16 2015 21:39 VisceraEyes wrote: ##Vote: Fecalfeast JUST IN CASE THERE WAS ANY DOUBT AS TO THE SERIOUSNESS OF MY POST!!!!!! VisceraEyes' next two posts are his thoughts about the game, and the only thoughts about the game that he's posted, assuming that his earlier posts were in jest. He says that he likes most of the people who have been posting (ok, so who doesn't he like then? not useful), and that he doesn't like Fecalfeast. I personally don't really like this Fecalfeast read, but whatever, it's sort of up for interpretation. But this is his ONLY read. Note that he spends a fair amount of this post responding to the townreads he's received. He's very aware of them, and this shows in his play. His activity tanked, he's not being useful or constructive, he made the terrible statement "I like most people who posted so far", which a perfect example of useless and lazy play. 3. Response to meta reads + Show Spoiler + On November 16 2015 05:50 geript wrote: Hm, people townreading VisceraEyes very strongly with little explanation. Where have I seen this before?I'm not voting for VE ever. This game. Everyone townread VisceraEyes for no reason. I thought VisceraEyes was scum. Everyone ignored me on the basis that "he's town". Guess what, he was scum. In fact, look at VisceraEyes' first post in that game. On August 26 2015 09:51 VisceraEyes wrote: Look familiar?Hi I'm town. Marv playing like Palmar makes me vom a little in my mouth. Otherwise I like most everyone who's posted so far. I don't see how the metareads given about VisceraEyes apply to this game. Either ~80% of his posts in this game were not serious, or he is clearly lying to try and explain his play. Ritoky's meta read has nothing to do with what I have presented, he didn't mention the posts related to this at all. As for geript's: On November 16 2015 06:13 geript wrote: I don't understand this read. I've seen VisceraEyes jump on things and not push them into oblivion as mafia, too. For example, look at the game I linked; VisceraEyes was scumreading both Palmar and I but when Palmar asked him to reread the entire game under the assumption that we were both town and then share his thoughts, he did so (or at least partially did so).Read other VE games. He's really easy to read when he gets semi active. Part of it is based in the fact that VE and I scum hunt rather differently. He takes on an egocentric (in the technical sense not in the asshole sense) view of other players; i.e. How he acts when he's scum and applies it to them. So when you see him jump on certain things in an accusatory way (especially when he's not trying to assream them) he's almost always town. My case stands for itself, I've had enough of random meta. Again, I don't use very much meta. Here's my scumread of VisceraEyes from Gaiden 2. On August 27 2015 17:59 Trfel wrote: In this game I was town and VisceraEyes was mafia.First he votes for WaveofShadow, and then decides to change his vote to MoosyDoosy based on how MoosyDoosy kept talking to WaveofShadow.This isn't a convincing case at all. VisceraEyes starts out by saying that he thinks that MoosyDoosy is pocketing WaveofShadow, but this is reasonable from town, but he gets a bad feeling anyway. Then he says that he can see something that can be considered towny may be able to come from a mafia perspective. And then he says it's better than voting for someone who is AFK. Which results in a vote on MoosyDoosy. VisceraEyes doesn't seem convinced by his own case. And he's downplaying his earlier vote on WaveofShadow, which felt really out of place anyway. I don't understand why he voted for WaveofShadow in the first place. The strength he places in his WaveofShadow read seems to vary a lot: VisceraEyes transitions from voting for WaveofShadow to seemingly being surprised and not having considered that WaveofShadow could be mafia. In this game there were also a ton of people who were townreading VisceraEyes either without giving reasons or giving meta reasons that I can't understand (more on the latter later). They didn't pay any attention to my case, I was forced to give up my VisceraEyes push because it was going nowhere. As for whether VisceraEyes is a good/common target for mafia to push, that's mostly for you to decide. But one thing about VisceraEyes is that there are a ton of people who will use meta to townread VisceraEyes every game he's in, sometimes incorrectly. This is made obvious by Gaiden 2, where my own mason partner Palmar gave an unexplained townread on VisceraEyes which ended up being wrong. There are so many people with experience playing with VisceraEyes that any push on VisceraEyes has to go through a lot of meta townreads first. On Breshke + Show Spoiler + NocturneMage wrote: Huh? Yes, I've seen from Noir Mini Mafia Chapter 3 that Breshke doesn't always play his best as town. But that's EVEN MORE reason to townread him.5 games with Breshke when Breshke was town. That's enough information I feel to realise that Breshke if town here, could be falling below town expectations. I don't understand this point. NocturneMage wrote:so at the very least geript's statement regarding misrepresentation of of Breshke's reads could be valid. I've already explained, many times, that I look at geript's read on Breshke and I look at Breskhe's filter and I see the exact opposite. I've tried to explain this, and I've tried to see what geript was trying to say, but geript never answered me.As I said earlier, the defining characteristic of Breshke's town play, to me, is the smart, insightful comments. Which I've seen this game. Breshke isn't the kind of player who dominates the thread and pushes his lynches through. He's the kind of player who analyzes things, tries to figure things out, and then posts his thinking for everyone else to see, and it's generally really useful. I'm pretty sure that this was discussed in Noir Mafia Chapter 3, if you want proof. It's the same view that rsoultin had about Breshke. Breshke's play this game is a reasonable fit for this description. The one problem with this read (other than the subjectivity) is that in Noir Chapter 3, he didn't provide any analysis that I considered really insightful, and he was town, so the negative isn't a definitive proof of mafia. I hope to re-evaluate Breshke soon anyway, and I will try to ignore my perceptions of Breshke's meta when I do so. Other + Show Spoiler + NocturneMage, you say the case isn't meta, but it's the very definition of meta. Meta is simply information used that comes from outside of the current game. Which is the entirety of this case. Unless I'm wrong on my definition of meta? (that would be pretty miserable, ~18 games on TL Mafia, still doesn't know what meta is...) On a different note, my playstyle and the way I make my reads is rather unique. I don't use a lot of meta. At least, relative to many other players. I don't really know how I make my reads, I don't know where they come from. I try to look for mafia motivations behind everything, but many of my reads don't directly involve mafia motivation. I also don't really use townreads that much, I prefer to simply find mafia. I try to re-evaluate everything for myself; what I can't understand, I can't support. For an example of why this is necessary, look at TL Mafia LXXI: Gaiden. In this game, Palmar flipped mafia. The mafia team took this opportunity to keep on saying "Palmar never busses as mafia, he's always about trying to play a fun game, and to him a fun game is where mafia defends each other. So, anyone that Palmar pushed is town." I didn't have the background to understand this, or why it's a 100% read, but there were so many people saying this that we all ended up going with it. And Palmar had played the game by bussing as much as possible, one of the big things that led to a pretty awful town loss. As for how this applies to this game, I cannot simply accept geript's reads. When I'm not sure of his alignment, when I don't understand how he got his reads, when I'm seeing the exact opposite things that he mentioned, I cannot accept his reads because "he's geript". He never actually addressed the points that I had brought up. Never. NocturneMage's case has a bunch of other flaws caused by not actually reading the games involved. The simplest example of this is that NocturneMage said that I observed a game with scott31337 in it (Generic Boring Mini Mafia). This is technically true, I asked and received access to the obs qt, but I've never actually followed a game that I haven't played in for more than a few hours. I'm just not capable of it. You can look at the obs qt for yourself, see how active I was XD One final point: nothing makes sense without context. Ask any experienced mafia player, they'll tell you that mafia is all about context. Anyone can make any argument at any time, and it doesn't necessarily tell you anything, it's the context of that argument that is so important. You can take a bunch of stuff out of context and make any argument. ANY argument. But that doesn't mean that the argument is correct. NocturneMage's post involves zero context whatsoever. The post does not address any of my actual play this game or my actual reasoning behind my reads. The post does not address what actually happened in the games mentioned. The post does not address how I play mafia, and instead uses this idea of how I should play mafia (I have no clue where this idea even came from). The context leads to a completely different conclusion. | ||
Trfel
6496 Posts
Scott31337 said that I could be mafia because I'm capable of making a compelling argument as mafia. Scott31337 said that geript is town because he made a post explaining how VisceraEyes' play fit his town meta. (validity of these points aside) The main problem isn't either one of the two points individually, the problem is the points combined. It doesn't make sense for scott31337 to give geript an easy townread and to refuse to townread me or analyze my thought process. | ||
Trfel
6496 Posts
On November 20 2015 04:16 Damdred wrote: I don't know, this game has been miserable for me. Fighting with geript all of Day 1, only to realize that I've been wrong on three of my biggest suspects this game.Trfel will you tell me who is acum? All this right after I thought I was finally figuring out how to be a good mafia player.... I'll look at Breshke and disformation when I have a chance, but my exam is a much higher priority for me. | ||
Trfel
6496 Posts
Do you really think that as mafia with a ton of momentum, I'd go into Day 2 and push an un-cc'd blue? Just to back off when they replace out? Instead of all of the other fairly easy targets in the thread? Like, why would mafia ever do this? FarahBlackwing's play made no sense at all, I couldn't possibly see it coming from town. I still can't. If Damdred is town, hopefully mafia will kill him soon. | ||
Trfel
6496 Posts
So many people with their stupid unexplained reads. Who don't listen to what I have to say. I get ignored all of the time. At least people paid a token of attention to me this game, only to blame me for the mislynch and decide that I'm obviously scum because of it. Clearly it wasn't their fault at all for following me. So. Dumb. | ||
Trfel
6496 Posts
And now I'm being lynched because "geript said..." When geript didn't do a single towny thing all game long? I don't care that geript's flipped town, that DOES NOT make him right. AS PROVEN BY MY ROLE PM. Use a bit of sense. | ||
Trfel
6496 Posts
On November 20 2015 07:59 ritoky wrote: I always give replacements a day pass.so who's mafia then? why did you back off damdred if his slot's play made no sense? There's absolutely no reason not to do so. Often times, a replacing player gives a new perspective to the slot's alignment that I simply couldn't see before. I keep looking at Breshke's play, and it seems to be getting worse and worse. The big thing that stands out are the unfulfilled activity promises, he keeps vanishing. But this is exam time for him, he barely signed up to play anyway. Activity aside, his play feels very genuine and there's a natural progression to the way that he pushed his scum reads on Day 1. MoosyDoosy has seemed quite towny with the push on FarahBlackwing, but since Damdred's replacement MoosyDoosy has been pretty awful. The claim included. Shooting someone for information is terrible. But I don't see any reason for him to claim there as mafia, he wasn't really suspected by anyone and the bad claim can only hurt him in the end. By process of elimination, I'm down to disformation, Fecalfeast, Damdred, and Eversince. The last two of which are terrible lynches today for reasons previously mentioned. | ||
Trfel
6496 Posts
On November 20 2015 08:03 Fecalfeast wrote: Really?I'd be more comfortable lynching breshke over angry!trfel I need to take a look at a few things, but you'd better not go anywhere.... | ||
Trfel
6496 Posts
Here the posts that Fecalfeast has made this game that show his read progression. + Show Spoiler + On November 16 2015 08:33 Fecalfeast wrote: I'm not really reading too closely. Watching CFL with my dad and bro. Tone/feel reads telling me farah is town, geript is town, disform is mafia ever is towny... Refs in this game are blind On November 16 2015 08:34 Fecalfeast wrote: Oh disforms ninja post is fine for now. On November 17 2015 05:36 Fecalfeast wrote: VE you have me on steam lol my buddy hasn't done any of the online stuff yet I'm mostly skimming here but I side with trfel on VE for sure. town: ritoky trfel nocturne mafia: moose ve that's all I got On November 17 2015 08:04 Fecalfeast wrote: ve seems ok now that i'm interacting with him On November 17 2015 08:21 Fecalfeast wrote: He's explained his reasoning for voting me further and my earlier scumread was entirely sheeped from trfel On November 17 2015 08:44 Fecalfeast wrote: ##unvote I'm going to completely ignore moose for the rest of this game but I believe that he is really being that much of a female dog about rolling town. On November 17 2015 09:47 Fecalfeast wrote: I hosted the game where he bused the dick off his whole team as mafia. He legitimately seems like a player who much prefers scum play over town play. That said, I also agree with the idea that giving him a free pass for throwing a tantrum is lame. Fuck it ##vote mooseydoosey On November 17 2015 09:56 Fecalfeast wrote: scott's filter is unappetizing and stingily portioned. 0 stars out of 5 On November 17 2015 10:12 Fecalfeast wrote: I could kill scott if we're gonna ignore moose again On November 17 2015 11:49 Fecalfeast wrote: If I were scum and moose was town, I'd be laughing it up in scum qt right now about how, unless he gets vigged, we have a guaranteed mislynch in lylo. Which means we should probably get rid of him sooner than later. On November 19 2015 08:39 Fecalfeast wrote: 1. Unless someone claims a vig shot on Geript, he was the only one adamant about trfel being scum and was getting upset that nobody listened to him. 2. His day 1 suspicions from his filter: VE, Moose, Scott, Me. I know 3/4 of those are town 100% while moose is showing some towny play since yesterday. 3. Totally willing to vote an uncc'd blue because she's martyring. On November 19 2015 08:58 Fecalfeast wrote: I can't say I'm tunneled on you trfel but right now that's where my brain is. I've only just been in your filter and i will take a closer look later. I've still got shit to do right now tho On November 20 2015 07:50 Fecalfeast wrote: I will kill bresh or trfel because geript confirmed the mafia kill makes it more likely he was offed for his reads, since mafia knows we have a vet* they wouldn't worry about a medic dodge. *assuming farah's claim was real On November 20 2015 08:03 Fecalfeast wrote: I'd be more comfortable lynching breshke over angry!trfel So, there are a few trends shown by the above posts. 1. Whoever posts is town
The disinformation post that caused Fecalfeast to change his read isn't that great. It's the first actual reads post that disinformation has made all game, and it was only made on request. But this caused a dramatic change in Fecalfeast's read? Enough to make him never seriously discuss disformation again? The way he downplayed his scumread on VisceraEyes is terrible. "I side with trfel on VE for sure", leading to a townread on Trfel and a scumread on VisceraEyes. Then, "ve seems ok now that i'm interacting with him" and "He's explained his reasoning for voting me further and my earlier scumread was entirely sheeped from trfel". First, VisceraEyes' Fecalfeast read wasn't a part of my case on VisceraEyes. The fact that this is what Fecalfeast mentioned, while also saying that his scumread came purely from my case, does not make sense at all. For MoosyDoosy, his reasons are debatable, but the important thing is that he voted for MoosyDoosy again later. More on this later. At the same time as Fecalfeast backed off of me (Trfel), he pushed onto Breshke. And he hadn't mentioned Breshke before. This push came out of nowhere. He said he'd rather lynch Breshke because I was "angry". Every single time, there's a person who makes some posts, and Fecalfeast removes his scumread on that person. This is every single time that Fecalfeast has removed a scumread on someone. This reeks of "don't hurt me, I'm not scumreading you!" 2. "Decision" about Day 1 lynch target Fecalfeast first includes MoosyDoosy as mafia in his list (no reason given), then votes MoosyDoosy for martyring. Then he unvotes MoosyDoosy because he thinks MoosyDoosy is just that obnoxious when he rolls town. At this point, Fecalfeast had zero scum reads. So, he went back and voted for MoosyDoosy again, reasoning being that "giving him a free pass for throwing a tantrum is lame". It's noteworthy that at this time, there was a lot of push for lynching MoosyDoosy. This vote on MoosyDoosy is extremely opportunistic and seems to be a patch for Fecalfeast having zero reads. Ritoky, one of the game's highest-influence players, then says that MoosyDoosy is exempt from being lynched. Fecalfeast immediately says he will look into scott31337. And then says he could kill scott31337. He doesn't care one bit about who is lynched, which is shown by his post saying that town ignoring MoosyDoosy causes them to automatically lose LYLO if MoosyDoosy is town, but ultimately vote for scott31337 instead of MoosyDoosy with no new reasons presented. The progression is basically:
3. Other factors I don't really have time to explain this as in detail, but namely his play on Day 3. He said that he didn't like disformation, but he never followed up on this or explained this at all. He said that I (Trfel) was suspicious primarily because of night kill analysis, but never actually addressed any of my posts or arguments like I asked him to, and like he said he would. Then he moved to Breshke, who he only mentioned once before in his filter, with a TOWN LEAN. Okay. Conclusion Fecalfeast is always taking the easy route, always making the easy reads. He's always keeping one scum read and when that stops being easy, he's just moving to the new easy scum read. His apathy towards the Day 1 lynch between two townies and forced read switches are extremely suspicious. | ||
Trfel
6496 Posts
Yup. I guess Fecalfeast is never mafia, because he doesn't have any scumreads, so he can't ever be wrong. Because being wrong makes you scum. | ||
Trfel
6496 Posts
But if you lynch me instead of Fecalfeast, after what I've laid out on a silver platter, then I actually have no words. | ||
Trfel
6496 Posts
The person suspected by nearly everyone in the game, the person who hasn't posted in 24 hours. If that's not the easiest push in the world, then I don't know what is. | ||
Trfel
6496 Posts
On November 20 2015 12:58 Damdred wrote: Where the heck does this come from?Seriously you've done nothing but soft to hard defend breshke all game and why? I've been posting more analysis than anyone, making more cases than everyone else combined. I've pushed my suspicions to the best of my ability as well. Just because I was wrong does NOT change the amount of effort that I've put into this game or how invested I've been in this game. The fact that you can even think of simplifying my play to a defense of Breshke is unbelievable. I have an exam tomorrow morning. I found one mafia. I gave a POE list with my reads (yes, the people not on the list have good reason to be town). That means that unless I messed up, there are two mafia in the other three. I'll go worry about my exam now, we can worry about the other mafia later. | ||
Trfel
6496 Posts
On November 20 2015 08:55 Trfel wrote: Either I missed something, or Fecalfeast is mafia. There is nothing in between.Fecalfeast Here the posts that Fecalfeast has made this game that show his read progression. + Show Spoiler + On November 16 2015 08:33 Fecalfeast wrote: I'm not really reading too closely. Watching CFL with my dad and bro. Tone/feel reads telling me farah is town, geript is town, disform is mafia ever is towny... Refs in this game are blind On November 16 2015 08:34 Fecalfeast wrote: Oh disforms ninja post is fine for now. On November 17 2015 05:36 Fecalfeast wrote: VE you have me on steam lol my buddy hasn't done any of the online stuff yet I'm mostly skimming here but I side with trfel on VE for sure. town: ritoky trfel nocturne mafia: moose ve that's all I got On November 17 2015 08:04 Fecalfeast wrote: ve seems ok now that i'm interacting with him On November 17 2015 08:21 Fecalfeast wrote: He's explained his reasoning for voting me further and my earlier scumread was entirely sheeped from trfel On November 17 2015 08:44 Fecalfeast wrote: ##unvote I'm going to completely ignore moose for the rest of this game but I believe that he is really being that much of a female dog about rolling town. On November 17 2015 09:47 Fecalfeast wrote: I hosted the game where he bused the dick off his whole team as mafia. He legitimately seems like a player who much prefers scum play over town play. That said, I also agree with the idea that giving him a free pass for throwing a tantrum is lame. Fuck it ##vote mooseydoosey On November 17 2015 09:56 Fecalfeast wrote: scott's filter is unappetizing and stingily portioned. 0 stars out of 5 On November 17 2015 10:12 Fecalfeast wrote: I could kill scott if we're gonna ignore moose again On November 17 2015 11:49 Fecalfeast wrote: If I were scum and moose was town, I'd be laughing it up in scum qt right now about how, unless he gets vigged, we have a guaranteed mislynch in lylo. Which means we should probably get rid of him sooner than later. On November 19 2015 08:39 Fecalfeast wrote: 1. Unless someone claims a vig shot on Geript, he was the only one adamant about trfel being scum and was getting upset that nobody listened to him. 2. His day 1 suspicions from his filter: VE, Moose, Scott, Me. I know 3/4 of those are town 100% while moose is showing some towny play since yesterday. 3. Totally willing to vote an uncc'd blue because she's martyring. On November 19 2015 08:58 Fecalfeast wrote: I can't say I'm tunneled on you trfel but right now that's where my brain is. I've only just been in your filter and i will take a closer look later. I've still got shit to do right now tho On November 20 2015 07:50 Fecalfeast wrote: I will kill bresh or trfel because geript confirmed the mafia kill makes it more likely he was offed for his reads, since mafia knows we have a vet* they wouldn't worry about a medic dodge. *assuming farah's claim was real On November 20 2015 08:03 Fecalfeast wrote: I'd be more comfortable lynching breshke over angry!trfel So, there are a few trends shown by the above posts. 1. Whoever posts is town
The disinformation post that caused Fecalfeast to change his read isn't that great. It's the first actual reads post that disinformation has made all game, and it was only made on request. But this caused a dramatic change in Fecalfeast's read? Enough to make him never seriously discuss disformation again? The way he downplayed his scumread on VisceraEyes is terrible. "I side with trfel on VE for sure", leading to a townread on Trfel and a scumread on VisceraEyes. Then, "ve seems ok now that i'm interacting with him" and "He's explained his reasoning for voting me further and my earlier scumread was entirely sheeped from trfel". First, VisceraEyes' Fecalfeast read wasn't a part of my case on VisceraEyes. The fact that this is what Fecalfeast mentioned, while also saying that his scumread came purely from my case, does not make sense at all. For MoosyDoosy, his reasons are debatable, but the important thing is that he voted for MoosyDoosy again later. More on this later. At the same time as Fecalfeast backed off of me (Trfel), he pushed onto Breshke. And he hadn't mentioned Breshke before. This push came out of nowhere. He said he'd rather lynch Breshke because I was "angry". Every single time, there's a person who makes some posts, and Fecalfeast removes his scumread on that person. This is every single time that Fecalfeast has removed a scumread on someone. This reeks of "don't hurt me, I'm not scumreading you!" 2. "Decision" about Day 1 lynch target Fecalfeast first includes MoosyDoosy as mafia in his list (no reason given), then votes MoosyDoosy for martyring. Then he unvotes MoosyDoosy because he thinks MoosyDoosy is just that obnoxious when he rolls town. At this point, Fecalfeast had zero scum reads. So, he went back and voted for MoosyDoosy again, reasoning being that "giving him a free pass for throwing a tantrum is lame". It's noteworthy that at this time, there was a lot of push for lynching MoosyDoosy. This vote on MoosyDoosy is extremely opportunistic and seems to be a patch for Fecalfeast having zero reads. Ritoky, one of the game's highest-influence players, then says that MoosyDoosy is exempt from being lynched. Fecalfeast immediately says he will look into scott31337. And then says he could kill scott31337. He doesn't care one bit about who is lynched, which is shown by his post saying that town ignoring MoosyDoosy causes them to automatically lose LYLO if MoosyDoosy is town, but ultimately vote for scott31337 instead of MoosyDoosy with no new reasons presented. The progression is basically:
3. Other factors I don't really have time to explain this as in detail, but namely his play on Day 3. He said that he didn't like disformation, but he never followed up on this or explained this at all. He said that I (Trfel) was suspicious primarily because of night kill analysis, but never actually addressed any of my posts or arguments like I asked him to, and like he said he would. Then he moved to Breshke, who he only mentioned once before in his filter, with a TOWN LEAN. Okay. Conclusion Fecalfeast is always taking the easy route, always making the easy reads. He's always keeping one scum read and when that stops being easy, he's just moving to the new easy scum read. His apathy towards the Day 1 lynch between two townies and forced read switches are extremely suspicious. I don't understand how everyone can ignore me, no matter how much work I put in. | ||
Trfel
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All I'm doing is trying to lynch scum. All I've done is try to lynch scum. If people are going to be stupid and lynch someone for no reason instead of scum, then I'll tell them why their reasons are stupid. | ||
Trfel
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On November 21 2015 00:45 Damdred wrote: Read my filter, I've explained it before.You still aren't answering me, what has Breshke done to be hard town read and hard defended? It's not that Breshke is an overwhelming radiance of towniness, it's that Breshke is decently towny, the reasons for lynching him are terrible, and there are much better lynches that are being ignored. Lynch Fecalfeast. Hopefully I'll be back before the deadline. | ||
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Doesn't look like there's much that can be done at this point. I don't know what to say any more, I hate people ignoring my posts and doing their own thing. It's not possible for me to do everything by myself... | ||
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I still don't know why he was scum here. I guess I need to rethink my read method on Breshke completely. | ||
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On November 21 2015 05:23 The Shining wrote: I don't see how Fecalfeast can be town here.Brooms rhyme with shrooms =D I'll eat shrooms if town doesn't win >.> Trfel do you still think FF is scum? Breshke was obviously bussed. My push on Fecalfeast would have given mafia a golden opportunity to switch off of Breshke, but nothing happened. In addition to all of Fecalfeast's play, that absolutely confirms him as mafia. | ||
Trfel
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I've got plans for today. If scum shoots me, we'll all be super happy anyway. I guess Damdred is just town. Which leaves me to a POE list of Fecalfeast, disformation, and Onegu. There's quite likely at least one hole in my POE list, some of the points raised against ritoky were pretty good. I'll take a look this evening, hopefully. | ||
Trfel
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On November 22 2015 09:20 disformation wrote: Yeah, learn to read.Damdred you still around? Was the legwork from earlier what you were looking for? Any conclusions from that? I found Trfel going from "Nah this is not a fake claim" "to lets lynch her" a bit confusing after farah's claim. On November 19 2015 07:10 Trfel wrote: The fact that she claimed, but didn't bother going through MoosyDoosy's case point by point is really, really suspicious. I know I'm not the only one who asked for that. Would FarahBlackwing fakeclaim here as town? I would think not, but am I wrong? On November 19 2015 07:14 Trfel wrote: The "as town" part.I can't see this coming from a person who would fakeclaim here as town. That settles that. | ||
Trfel
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I get ignored, then everyone calls me scum for stupid nonsense while never responding to anything I'm trying to say. Scum is going to win this game because no one is freaking listening. Fecalfeast is mafia and needs to be lynched. Onegu is likely mafia as well. I'll look through ritoky's filter tonight and then disformation's sometime tomorrow. | ||
Trfel
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If the only towny thing that someone has done by Day 3 is tone, that's pretty miserable. | ||
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On November 23 2015 07:48 Trfel wrote: To expand:Why is everyone townreading Fecalfeast? All I've seen mentioned is tone. If the only towny thing that someone has done by Day 3 is tone, that's pretty miserable. I've presented a complete argument for why Fecalfeast is mafia. Furthermore, he is basically guaranteed mafia because mafia didn't push onto him and away from Breshke after I posed this argument (the more I think about this, it's not 100% that mafia would do this, but it's extremely likely that they would have pushed it more if they could). Fecalfeast has not responded to my arguments at all. No one else has suggested why anything is at all invalid, either. So why are people townreading him? | ||
Trfel
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I really hate how Onegu came back an hour from End of Day. After vanishing for so long. But he's still Onegu, and I'm still almost positive that Fecalfeast is mafia. | ||
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On November 23 2015 08:40 Damdred wrote: Why would Fecalfeast push Breshke? He was planning on bussing Breshke already. So when I start pushing on him, why not continue to bus Breshke? There's no reason for him not to do this.Like I've said truffle Why would ff push the case on Breske the way he did? Why is your case so reliant on d1-2 things when you haven't updated with d3 things? Honestly his posting today has been pretty good even if it is a short burst. So explain to me why I should lynch someone who obviously gives a shit (pun intended) today and seemingly is scrum hunting. And why are you complaining when your second scrum read is leading the lynch? Fecalfeast hasn't done anything on Day 3. Look through his filter. He's produced a lot of posts, but no actual work, no desire to solve the game. The one thing he's said is that I'm 100% mafia for not voting for him right away, but then he decided that I'm not 100% mafia, and he never said what changed his mind. There's also this post about The Shining, coming to the conclusion of "The Shining may be town based on tone". Which is very irrelevant, already determined by many people since Day 1, and Fecalfeast isn't even confident of his read. This isn't scumhunting. I'd much rather lynch Fecalfeast than Onegu. Fecalfeast and Onegu are the most likely mafia, but if I made any mistake, then it's Onegu who is town instead of Fecalfeast. I'd much rather take the sure thing. | ||
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On November 24 2015 04:11 disformation wrote: Well, I need to leave.Oh great. I fucking hate this. 50mins b4 deadline, a whole lot of ppl not here. Perfect time to start some action and have a good ol' waffle time. -.- See you guys later. Lynch Fecalfeast. | ||
Trfel
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On November 24 2015 04:14 NocturneMage wrote: No, it's not a valid reason to townread Onegu, but there is really no guarantee that he is mafia.can you at least for the love of everything that is good talk about Fecalfeast's activity THIS CYCLE and why he's still mafia? why is he mafia based on things he's done THIS CYCLE? also "still being onegu" isn't a valid reason to townread him after you said "onegu is probably mafia" (post 1677) Onegu is likely mafia. But Fecalfeast is ALMOST GUARANTEED mafia. Lynching almost guaranteed mafia is better than lynching likely mafia. Fecalfeast's posting this cycle has been mafia motivated, as well. He posted some analysis early, then when people started townreading him and defending him for his "desire to solve the game" (aka they are blind), then his "desire to solve the game" died off to more fluff and less work. It's pretty obvious if you just look for it. | ||
Trfel
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On November 24 2015 04:20 disformation wrote: Do you honestly think that Fecalfeast is trying to solve the game?Yeah. I have a similar problem. It is a bit supsicious, but I just can see how that makes FF 100% slamdunk mafia... | ||
Trfel
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I'm fun to play with as town, really! Well, most of the time! Well, sometimes.... Well, once..... | ||
Trfel
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We were actually planning to counterclaim FarahBlackwing on Day 3.... | ||
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On November 24 2015 05:50 NocturneMage wrote: Nah, you were fine.GGs Trfel. I'm sure I'll see you in another game. Hopefully I didn't come across as too much of a dick this game. The big thing you did wrong is that you let me live so long When you make a big post with a bunch of reasons why I'm scum, and I only respond to half of them, what does that tell you about the other half? XD | ||
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On November 24 2015 05:51 disformation wrote: FarahBlackwing played quite well, honestly. No clue why everyone was scumreading her.Yeah, can totally see that. Mentioned before that farah and moosy of all ppl being blue was bad for you guys. Getting Damdred in the vet slot and losing the roleblocker was super incredible bad for you guys. ^^ It wasn't that Damdred replacing in for FarahBlackwing was such an "unfair substitution". It was just that it happened after we were already committed to a certain strategy, and replacements always change strategy. I'd say that Damdred's #1 advantage over FarahBlackwing when he replaced in was simply having a fresh approach, and the continual frustration and pressure was the whole reason we were pushing FarahBlackwing to begin with. I am sorry for upsetting FarahBlackwing so much, though, I got carried away with it. | ||
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On November 24 2015 05:53 Fecalfeast wrote: High effort?You're a really high effort scum player and it scares me. Look at someone like rsoultin, raynpelikoneet. My scum effort is pretty miserable. | ||
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On November 24 2015 06:04 NocturneMage wrote: It requires a ton of context. Just looking at the vote count isn't good enough, you have to consider the vote count and the thread sentiment at the time when the votes in question were made.One thing I'd like to ask from more experienced players is vote analysis. That shit still confuses me mostly and any post on it I feel like I have to play 20+ games to really understand how to analyse town and mafia actions from votes. Like I only knew that late votes = bussing was from experience in newbie 13. My only prior mafia experience was real life and everyone just throws their hands up all at once. But trying to lay out the votes this game I will say is much much easier with the tracker but even then it's hard to tell timing motivations, even with Shining's statements on number of switches, I would have never picked up on ritoky's switching as a bad thing. are there any guides or anything to try and pick up voting analysis? it seems so effective but so difficult to understand. fuck. Once you do that, it's actually really simple. You just look at the motivation and the implications of each vote, how the wagons are changing, and what the result of that is. Or you can ask ritoky, he has some really special voting analysis tricks, but I doubt he's willing to share XD | ||
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On November 24 2015 06:17 NocturneMage wrote: I mean, that's really the hard part of mafia, though.nah, I get it. I'd like one more game where I can get coaching on voting analysis specifically even if I am an open player. either that or a guide or something but at least this gives me a rough start. I think for the most part I looked town enough to not get lynched, it seems like people would have just fear/tinfoil lynched me in mylo, and I felt I have made good points and read carefully all game. so that was somewhat concerning. at least if nothing else reading mafia qt, you people were threatened by me to the point you almost shot me night 1 over moosy. so I think I did something right. and for the people tinfoiling me as scum (lol Fecalfeast) I don't know what to say. my first game I read HTS's scum games when I was drawn as scum, but that didn't help me any, I think I just need more experience, but then again she has a different approach to playing scum than I do. The concepts are simple, the hard part is the experience so that you can figure out what's happening and so that you don't miss possibilities. I'd like to play with you as town sometime T.T I think we could work well together! I'll tell you who's scum and you go lynch them, okay? | ||
Trfel
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It was just unfortunate for us that the replacement happened as it did, but I don't think it was wrong. | ||
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On November 24 2015 06:23 NocturneMage wrote: Just ignore it final thing I'll comment on was the ridiculous and excessive use of meta by a lot of players. It made it very difficult to read and understand certain points on different players day 1. I really don't know what to say, I am just very hesitant to trust meta reads on players I don't know from players I don't know and that just makes it very difficult to tell people's intentions. and I have been taught certain types of meta is faked (like Trfel's tone this game) or broken. so getting around that? that's hard for me being new around here. that said, if anyone has any pointers for me, let me know. If people say something you can't understand, ask them to break it down for you such that it makes sense. If they're unwilling to do so, or can't explain it such that you can understand it, then ignore it. There are a million ways to solve the game without using meta. I think that simple meta like "is this player good or not?" works just fine for 90% of players. It's a playstyle thing, you can use meta, or you can largely avoid meta. | ||
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On November 24 2015 07:14 Damdred wrote: I strongly disagree, but I don't really care to debate it any more.Well I was traveling I'm glad we won. A few thoughts Evers slot probably should of been modkilled instead of replaced. Anything past early d2 is to long a time to allow fresh insite into the game. My replacement is not as badly done as some people make it seem. It sucked for scum me coming into a vet slot, however what's the difference between pushing me and pushing Farah? The difference is a mind set thing rather than an actual game play. Besides that people have been subbed put for reasons of not wanting to play and time constraints which Farah had as she had 4 horridshifts the next day Anyway good game town. And scum played well d1 and somewhat d2. | ||
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