EPTKinda wanted To in but was already in the current newbie game
Would be willing to /replace instead if thats helpful
[M][N]Holy Guardians Chapter 1
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
Kinda wanted To in but was already in the current newbie game Would be willing to /replace instead if thats helpful | ||
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Tictock
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I was drawn in by your kickass flavor here ^.^ I'd definitly /in but no way am I playing in 2 games when I'm still so green | ||
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Tictock
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Way to ruin my Pregame town claim | ||
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Tictock
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I don't care about coaching. | ||
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Tictock
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Not very motivated atm, might pick up as the game goes on, we'll see sorry | ||
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Tictock
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Prob woulda been phoning it in a little D1 had we started already. Little crunched for time next couple days, but then I should be good. | ||
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Tictock
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Tictock
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Tictock
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On June 03 2015 06:03 Chocolate wrote: ##Vote Tictock 1v1 me m8 I'm sorry, who are you? lol | ||
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Tictock
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Man I half joined this game kus I was tired of tunneling you in every other game I've played in these forums.. Guess I just have to suck it up. | ||
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Tictock
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It has always been my policy to deal with inactives by reading their actual posts that much harder. The idea is that if they are only willing to share a small amount of thoughts or thinking then we should take those posts even more literally/seriously. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On June 03 2015 06:08 Chocolate wrote: I just wanted to vote you because your opening post was weirdly cheery I don't know who you are either lol As for kickstart's post, I also played some games in 2012/2013 I believe. I'll go back and see if I played with any of you people Lol it's D1, random votes are expected. Today is my day off, and my mood has improved since i made those pre-game posts. So I can actually be around today and look for scum. | ||
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Tictock
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I am pretty new to TL forums. Have played in 2 of the newbie games (the 2 most recent ones, including the ongoing one). I see a few familiar names, but most of you I don't know... and am HIGHLY suspicious of... And of course I know SL, who I may have to ignore. I apologize in advance if I start tunneling him, I have a tendency to do that. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On June 03 2015 06:18 sicklucker wrote: Dandred is a good town. Ritoky might be a good mafia thats about it. onegu me and ve are regulars. Scott and tictock are two new players in there first non newbie game. Was in two games with each second is ongoing so I cant really talk about it. In the first one tictock tunneled the hell out of me when I had solved the game and it was hella annoying. A bunch of video mafia players I believe. I know milo/templar are maybe you? Yea kus SL def solves games on his own, def never has help from the rest of town... | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
Ok, I'll bite ##Vote ritoky For spamming graphics and one liners. Not even trying to push people yet, such scum. | ||
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Tictock
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On June 03 2015 06:24 sicklucker wrote: haha. I didnt see you were in the player list tbh. Woulda reged anyway tho Nah it's cool man. I need to get over my deal with you. I just hate having to read about your Mason team + Show Spoiler + SL and his Ego | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On June 03 2015 06:29 ritoky wrote: It was a long post made immediately after the day post, which means it was planned and probably planned regardless of alignment. It says nothing about your alignment and only about some bs intentions you plan to traffic cop about to appear like you're doing shit for the game. I don't really care about reading more than a paragraph because it won't teach me anything about your alignment. I will continue to post pictures, deal with it. Crap, and I was like about ready to make that sure fire case on you too... ##Unvote Even if the post was premade and is NAI, the content was at least good. Or do you have a different opinion about inactives ritoky? | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On June 03 2015 06:33 Kickstart wrote: Well, those that have played with ritoky, is he always like this? I suppose if he always does this he has to keep up his 'meta', however annoying and unhelpful it happens to be. Also, I could of had time after roles were sent to write up that post, but I will be honest and admit I didn't =]. I had to edit it a bit though because there was quite a bit going on before and while the game started. My first game on TL was with ritoky. I don't recall him doing graphics at all. I was going to double check that game, but I don't see it listed anymore? | ||
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Tictock
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Tictock
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On June 03 2015 06:43 sicklucker wrote: sort of ya. Is there a post limit this game? I thought you read the OP SL? E. Activity is desirable, but not overdoing it. In case you overdo it, a host may PM you limiting your posting in the following fashion: | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
Sorry missed a line: OP reads E. Activity is desirable, but not overdoing it. In case you overdo it, a host may PM you limiting your posting in the following fashion: Where H is the number of full hours until the end of the ongoing daytime, and N is the number of posts you may use. | ||
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Tictock
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On June 03 2015 06:52 Kickstart wrote: On the topic of post requirements, host posted this: How strict they will be on the 10 required posts per cycle is up to them, but that is what I was referring to earlier. Partially why I wanted to try this game, I really don't like when people make like 3 posts per Day Phase. Well that and the kickass flavor going on ^.^ + Show Spoiler + Not even sure why I like it so much, Just a decent concept for a mafia game, plus it's all sci-fi! So I agree with milo looking like he just wants to fit in a little with those posts. Other than that I have nothing much to add till more people show up. I'll be around most of today though and possibly lurking a bit, but afking for an hour or two. | ||
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Tictock
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On June 03 2015 07:21 milo109 wrote: I thought I wouldn't post there until I was actually certain of something. Wait, I'm confused by your stance here as well. You "voted" him + Show Spoiler + thanks scott for point out there's a separate thread for that Def could be scum there. @Milo SL asked before and I didn't see you answer. What is your prior Mafia experience? | ||
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Tictock
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On June 03 2015 07:33 sicklucker wrote: Milo asked me that? Thats funny because of ogi stuff. what ive played here. 50 turbos on 2+2 4 mishmashes 1 video mafia game that I told him about yesterday No I said you asked him that... Don't make me freak out over you not reading SL... | ||
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Tictock
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Kick is leaning scum to me atm. His whole prepared post right off the bat, into being rather diplomatic and trying to appeas everyone is rubbing me the wrong way atm. I'd be full on scumming him but he did make this post that I really like. On June 03 2015 08:53 Kickstart wrote: I want reads, whether they are strong or not is secondary. I even specified that I just wanted stuff to work with so I don't expect ironclad cases or anything, I just want stuff to work with. And while you may think a lot of things are null, I think there is plenty to work with for people to at least give opinions. Asking for reads and reasoning is always a good thing to do. It's also an easy thing for scum to do though.. so he still stays a scum lean for now. I have to admit VE is blowing me away with his townyness thus far. I loved his points against chocolate, I was a bit weirded out by his first post about me, but looking at them again from a scum perspective make sense. Idk if that's enough to scum chocolate though, everyone tends to do odd stuff D1 to throw out pressure which is what I assumed he was doing. Him dropping that pressure though... far more scummy. Need to see more from milo, not sure how video mafia works. Seems to me he'd appreciate the graphics from ritoky if that's what he's used to... + Show Spoiler + Lol I know that's a silly point, clearly video mafia is more about body language tells. Though I'd like to hear more about it at some point. Prob not relevant to this game though. | ||
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Tictock
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On June 03 2015 09:13 milo109 wrote: I was asked to make a longer post about my top scum, and I did so. Obviously we seem to be facing off. I'm happy to talk about my other scum reads as well. If your so happy to discuss them, then discuss them. We're only going to scum you for holding them back. | ||
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Tictock
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What is your opinion of SL? Both in this game and in general? I ask kus I'm reading you as town atm, and I might need to fall back on someones reading on him if I start to tunnel him. I've fallen into that trap my first 2 games with SL. | ||
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Tictock
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I see you doing a lot of defending and town reading so far this game. Any scum reads you have to share? | ||
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Tictock
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On June 03 2015 09:24 VisceraEyes wrote: I'll be no help - sicklucker has a style that I have an inherently bad time reading (lurky). I've incorrectly read him in every game I've played with him. Although it's worth pointing out that with statistics like that, you can almost FLIP my read of him and get accurate results. :O Lol well that's no good, kus that's usually what I do with my reads on him too... >.< I'll just fall back to my typical strat of ignoring SL as much as I can then. | ||
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Tictock
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On June 03 2015 09:25 Damdred wrote: Also everyone is demanding more and more reads from him but the main person who,keeps screaming for,more reads gives one leaves thread promises more comes back and doesn't deliver and,nobody talks about it. I thought I gave a read on Kick, though your right his weak read on milo doesn't build much confidence does it? I just find it odd that your so middle of the road, but I've never played with you so not sure if it's NAI or not. | ||
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Tictock
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On June 03 2015 09:30 Damdred wrote: Not sure how I'm being middle of the road? By "middle of the road" I mean your not taking any stances. Your giving townreads and saying people aren't as scummy as they look. Just feels like your holding back, showing that your here/active, but not really doing much scum hunting. I don't think anyone is expecting you to point out the scum team before we've even heard from the full list of players, but I get an odd feeling off your approach to the game thus far. | ||
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Tictock
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Are you just voting on me kus you've seen my name in bold a few times? Your reasoning seems a little weak. I am HIGHLY suspicious of the people I've never played with. I don't have a baseline to work with so I have to form reads on people from nothing. That means I'm going to be more cautious with townreading them than people who I've played with before. As for that vote on ritoky. It was a direct response to his post here, So GG, why are your posts so short and only sheeping stuff people have already pointed out? | ||
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Tictock
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I can help explain why SL is voting me, though you've already guessed at it. He is just mad becuase I have tunneled him the past 2 games I played. Oddly I've done it for the same one liners and "I'm town" statements that you are doing now. Since you've stated you've been looking into past games there's a paranoid voice in me going "He's trying to pocket you" since your agreeing with what I've always scummed him for, but that seems far fetched. My general stance on SL, is that he seems to do those things as either alignment. Him being useless is just him playing the game. Hope that doesn't sound mean, I have given him ample opportunity to correct my opinion of him, but I don't think he can let go of the ego. | ||
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Tictock
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Oddly I've done it for the same one liners and "I'm town" statements that you are picking up on now. | ||
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Tictock
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On June 03 2015 10:46 Damdred wrote: Actually the charges levels against me are meh, I've taken plenty of stances mostly town reads.... You call it middle of the road becauseee....idk haha. Anyway yeah I'll town read more people later figure out who I want to lynch in... 18 hours probably maybe 30. The bolded line is exactly WHY your being called out... I thought I addressed everything you bring up here, On June 03 2015 09:41 Tictock wrote: By "middle of the road" I mean your not taking any stances. Your giving townreads and saying people aren't as scummy as they look. Just feels like your holding back, showing that your here/active, but not really doing much scum hunting. I don't think anyone is expecting you to point out the scum team before we've even heard from the full list of players, but I get an odd feeling off your approach to the game thus far. So I don't get why you would make that post, except for the excuse to be afk for 30 hours! | ||
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Tictock
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On June 03 2015 10:57 Damdred wrote: Ummmm idk if you know this or not but most wagons up to hour 12 in the cycle (12 hours left before end of day) generally don't get lynched. Most serious cases are presented and pushed at that point when more information is I'm thread generally. If you disagree with how I approach early game that's fine but I generally don't put weakass scum reads in the thread lol I realize that, and I know some people just hate putting much effort into D1. I disagree with this approach as I think trying to generate content by pushing people tends to give more info to look at in the following days. However I've thus far found your approach, and more importantly how you've responded to my pressure on you fairly scummy. I'll be expecting decent reads from you when we get close to EoD if you want to sway my opinion. I'm not sold on meta reads being solid evidence to go off of, but can anyone tell me if this is typical of Damdred's town play? | ||
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Tictock
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GG is my top scum right now. No questions. Was expecting him to at least react to my response or something... I'm unsure of Damdred, though he's earning town points in my book for reacting the same way I did to GG. I'd really like to hear from Onegu and def need to see more out of Scott. I hate to say it but scott could be scum atm. I've seen him lynched D1 twice now, when he was town he was active until he got tunneled and when he was scum he posted very much like he's doing this game. Quick little reads and short response posts. Also half his posts atm are just stating facts, nothing game relevant. Milo does look kinda scummy but I'm not sure yet, I'd like to see more out of him. Right now I cant tell if he is actually scum or if he just looks out of place because he isn't used to this style of mafia. His frustration over being insta-scummed by several people is understandable, especially being new here. | ||
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Tictock
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Couple of things that I wanted to respond to right away, before I reread the thread and start putting together more solid reads for EoD. GG, dude, it's D1 and your already asking me to repost/restate stuff I've said? It's not a long thread to read yet, and my filter is def not that long... Besides, shouldn't you be paying attn to my posts more than anyone's if your scum reading me? On June 04 2015 04:45 scott31337 wrote: He never actually voted in the voting thread, but this looks like a Chezinu rule vote to me - A misguided understanding of a fairly new guy - when town would be afraid to vote so early but scum wants to start a easy ML. @Scott, I'm not familiar with the bolded term, mind elaborating? I agree that this completely looks like a scum play to me. He's mimiking a vote already on me, his reasons for voting me aren't bad per say but they are far from solid. GG dropped into the game and just made that read without trying to interact with me and ignored my response to him + Show Spoiler + and I have to assume any of my other posts, I'm active enough that you should be able to expand on that read on me by now ##Vote: GGTeMpLaR | ||
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Tictock
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On June 03 2015 06:05 sicklucker wrote: ##Vote Tictock I feel morally ok policy voting in non newbie games untill he proves hes town What's "moral" about a policy vote? I'm not even sure how I could be a policy vote still... I'm also wondering what people make of SL's posts like this. On June 03 2015 06:26 sicklucker wrote: oh your not going to get along with ritoky and onegu.... All I see here is SL stirring up trouble, and doing it indirectly. He is just dropping the idea that people wont like me or get along with me... That's also a new thing from SL to me, and it feels really scum motivated. On June 04 2015 06:20 sicklucker wrote: Sorry for not posting. A stressing game ended and im enjoying not being the center of attention for once. probably gonna keep relaxin Then he posts this... "sorry, not sorry" is basically all he says here. I was also not really willing to discuss this before because the last Newbie Game only ended last night. The ending to that game was far from stressful, expect to SL. I'm not even sure why he was so mad about that game, he kept claiming our last day that the game was solved and it was silly to be playing it out. Apparently he got really worked up for mafia wasting HIS time by not conceding. I really don't have a solid way to read SL, but these things I mentioned are new aspects to his play. I think he really could be scum this game because of it... going to leave my vote on GG for now though. GG doesn't even have the excuse of knowing me from past games and is basically sheeping SL with his vote on me, they could both be scum working together to try and ML me. | ||
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Tictock
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On June 04 2015 05:14 Kickstart wrote: Well me OMGUSing everything is a stretch. I went on milo and sl before they even mentioned me, and my read on GGT is the same with or without him directing anything at me. I am generally of the opinion that town reads aren't of much use D1, but I was pressured to name some earlier and I named yourself and VE, for basically the same reasons. I felt that you were both applying pressure when needed, you were both driving discussion, and both were being open and honest with your thoughts - all of which I think is helpful and thus I feel that you have been helpful for town up to this point. Does that mean I think you are both 100% town? No, but I feel confident in saying that I would not vote on either of you this cycle. To be honest the only other person I feel is slightly town atm is Nydus, but definitely not on the same level as you two. I have real issues with almost everyone else who I havent mentioned because I just feel their posts are void of strong feelings and I don't like that style of play. Namely I feel like Damdred, scott, Onegu, and Fideu (just off the top of my head) are not giving us anything to work with, their posts are void of reads and strong opinions, and while Damdred has asked a lot of questions and put a bit of pressure on at times, he is still guilty of not giving us his thoughts (though he said this is how he plays and that he will wait to make a stronger case when he is ready - which I intend to hold him too, if Day 1 ends and he is still guilty of what I outlined above I will have some real questions about him because he has been active enough and seems experiences and good enough to give some solid reads but has yet to do so). I think scott and fideu are new so I can understand the reluctance to stick their necks out on anything but I don't feel that is a real excuse, they still need to share their thoughts on things. Onegu seems to have arrived late on the scene but already his posting style is suspicious to me, much too much joking around; while this is normal and understandable at the start of the game, I feel like there is plenty of content to actually address, which he has not done. Can anyone tell me if this is normal posting from Onegu? Kick, I've been reading you town so far this game, but can you please not make posts like this? This wall of text is really hard on my eyes and is painful to read. I bet a lot of people just skipped it or skimmed it. I also agree with ritoky's take on that post. It's a lot of words that don't say much. You're mostly rehashing stuff you've already said or that have been expressed in the thread already. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
This is one of the first posts I actually like from you, possibly just because I'm seeing town in Fidei as well. On June 04 2015 09:33 milo109 wrote: I would say it was, except for the sheer amount of dumb tells in it. His Damdred cop read seems forced. However, if his point of view is someone who has never played any type of mafia before, then it's possible he's just really misreading the quote that way. If I had to answer that question, I'd say that this makes Fidei very town, but I'm going to accept the possibility that he might be a good enough player to type that as mafia. Care to explain what you mean by dumb tells though? I've heard the phrase before but only sorta get what people mean when they say it. Can you give me an example so I can see what you mean? | ||
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Tictock
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On June 04 2015 09:56 ritoky wrote: so TT are all of your reads firmly rooted in OMGUS? or? I'm trying not to, which is why I've waited till now to vote on GG or point out this stuff from SL. Do you not see more than OMGUS in my posts about them? | ||
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Tictock
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On June 04 2015 10:07 ritoky wrote: i think templar's reasons for voting you were made independent of SL, but sure. the rest of this i have absolutely 0 idea how you found any alignment indicative information in any of this. like you are trying to make nuanced discussion out of utter garbage. to me it's almost like you feel compelled to give an SL read but there's no content from SL but you feel compelled to read him. so you said some stuff that was just wharrrrgarble. you coulda just said "SL hasn't done anything particularly productive so he could be mafia". i just find this post highly unnecessary and unconvincing. This could very well be true, I def felt GG was sheeping SL's sentiment though, if not his thinking. Yea them being a team is prob me dipping into WIFOM. As for the "wharrrrgarble" stuff. I'm noticing stuff in SL's play that stands out to me as different from what I'm used to. Given that he's been town in both games I've played in thus far, I think me noticing new plays by him is a valid cause for me to start suspecting him. I'll grant you it's not the most solid line of thinking, but then he's not my vote is he? | ||
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Tictock
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On June 04 2015 05:25 Damdred wrote: So basically almost 24 hours in game you only have a strong opinion that 2 people are town one lean and the rest is null. Meh that post just irks me, it says a lot without actually doing much bah. You were definitely the one who expressed that thought I was agreeing with. All credit goes to Damdred guys, please remove credit given to ritoky  | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
I did ask about this playstyle of his(GG's) a few people have mentioned. Is it something he's done before or some kinda play that's established? I'm also not sure why you are all over me here too, but at least your not doing this indirect pushing or ignoring me. | ||
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Tictock
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On June 04 2015 04:47 scott31337 wrote: I have friends from out of state with me right now and they leave later today so I'm not spending a whole lot of time on the game at the moment. I'll pick it up later today/tomorrow, Onegu posts are pretty underwhelming this far... but his intro post and this one gave me a decent laugh. On June 04 2015 04:15 Onegu wrote: So here we go. In Thailand Milo is Chocolate powder. So that means Chocolate and Milo must be on the same team. Since chocolate is so tasty they must both be town. I recall doing a similar "read" on 27nb last game D1. On May 22 2015 09:56 Tictock wrote: See his whole case doesn't make sense. First 27 is clearly a better number than 26. Ends in a prime, multiple of nine AND 3... 2nd the 27 is CLEARLY attached to ninja more than bunnies, yet BM is asserting that there is too little Ninja. When is there ever too little Ninja? I mean the very absence of Ninja IS Ninja.... I guess I have to admit that he's really pretty null thus far, but I like his tone. Idk just a gut thing I guess... | ||
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Tictock
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VE struck me as town pretty easily, prob something I need to recheck but I'm prob going to go with it today. Not sure I like how tunneled he seems to be. He made one post which looked like he was willing to drop it, but now he seems to be right back on Chocolate like he's peanut butter or something... + Show Spoiler + Sorry, that was weak. I'll stop trying to be funny... As for choclate himself, he''s kinda just OMGUS right back at VE. Milo isn't going this route, but he is clearly frustrated by the whole thing... My personal opinion is that that all 3 are probably town here and are just over reacting to a rather stupid "he's afk" comment. I don't expect anything fruitful to come from this interaction. This post in Chocolate's filter caught my eye though... On June 03 2015 10:41 Chocolate wrote: I don't play forum mafia very much but I don't like the idea of having town reads. To me that seems somewhat counter-productive since at this point any player could be town. It's easy for a scum player to post in a "town-friendly" way (which is I think a reiteration of the "tryhard" vibe). I believe it would be much more productive for people to look for scum reads than to try to identify people as town @ VE do you have any opinions about people other than me and milo At first that sounds reasonable, but then I have to stop and think. Isn't it just as easy, or beneficial, for Mafia to be putting a lot of scum onto people? Also for someone who is putting alot of emphasis on scum reads being important I can't help but look at his list of people he'd like to lynch. On June 03 2015 23:30 Chocolate wrote: Scott VE Onegu GG I would pick Scott as my #1 2 people who were not very present in the game, VE, and GG. I can't find a read on GG from Choco in his filter at all, so really VE is his only real read here. That doesn't seem like very decent scum reads to me from a guy who is stressing their importance. @ Choco I see your more active atm. Care to update us on your scum reads? | ||
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Tictock
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On June 04 2015 11:06 ritoky wrote: ????????????????????????????? what the hell is that scott read?????????? and you're saying templar's reads are weak LOL. i think me and this guy are reading separate games. You know what ritoky. I'm starting to rethink you this game as well. So far you seem to like to shit on other peoples reads, but I don't see you giving any of your own. What are your reads atm? Who do you think is the best lynch for today? | ||
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Tictock
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On June 04 2015 12:09 ritoky wrote: yeah you're not even reading the game. that's literally the answer to your question not even 3 pages ago. but hey, largest filter in the game, probably most reads given of anyone...0 reads given...you got it bro. Those were your reads? Those all look pretty null to me. You have a lot of "worries" about people, and are unsure of me because of something you dont even get yourself... Here, maybe you can understand my point if I try to speak your language... ![[image loading]](https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5133/13953783092_54352f67f8_o.jpg) | ||
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On June 04 2015 12:17 milo109 wrote: Not knowing what VT means, and assuming an random phrase was a cop claim. These are all potentially innocent mistakes, and God knows I haven't been all correct this game. Just pointing them out for what they are, blatant signals that the author is either newbie town or experienced mafia. Ah, prefect then i was understanding you correctly. I'm also glad that you don't seem as tunneled on the VE-Choco stuff anymore. What do you think about GG? Also any thoughts about this interaction between ritoky and myself? I think he made a decent point before about me getting kinda OMGUS in my reads so far, and I feel like I'm close to that point regarding him as well. | ||
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Tictock
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Just getting tired of getting scummed this game for little to no reason. I get it, I'm a new person here you all want to push people you don't know and get reads on them. I accepted that early on when there wasn't much to go on, but at this point in the game I've done plenty to give you guys material to work with. If you still have a hard time reading me, check the 2 most recent NSM games which I played in. @ritoky Maybe that's what you are reacting to? My play has changed a lot since the first game I played with you. | ||
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Tictock
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On June 04 2015 13:02 ritoky wrote: here's the concise reason without any fluff of why i think you could be scum: 1) i don't agree with your reads and they are the opposite of mine in a lot of cases which means 1 of us is probably pretty wrong. and i don't think it is me. 2) i think your SL read is completely manufactured and making something out of nothing because you feel compelled to read him for some reason. 3) you are self centered and OMGUSing a lot. mafia tend to notice with a lot more frequency posts and accusations that target them and tend to talk about them more. i find you doing this a shit ton. 4) you made a post that gave me absolutely terrible feels. 5) you think templar is mafia for bogus reasons that have very little to do with content and a bit of hypocrisy. 6) your entry into the thread was very notice me senpai 7) "Just getting tired of getting scummed this game for little to no reason." implies there is a good reason to scum read you implying your scum (this last one is nitpicky and me being a ponce) Ok last response to you today, kus I don't think we are getting anywhere with this back and forth anymore. 1) Whatever, we disagree that happens. I could easily flip this argument around as well. I don't like your reads, but mine seem good to me... I think your missing the possibility where we are both wrong here... 2) I pointed out stuff that makes me wary about SL because I haven't seen him use tactics like them before. How is this different from your saying I made a post that gave you "terrible feels"? 3) A lot of people on these forums are self centered, get over it. Also doesn't town have an obligation to try and keep themselves from gettin lynched, just as much as scum wants to avoid getting lynched? Not wanting to be voted on is pretty NAI in my opinion. 4) Don't use this as a reason if you can't accept others using it too. 5) I'm responding more to the way that he is going about his play. Like I feel it's really shitty that he's said I'm scum but isn't bothering to read what I'm posting. Like if I was totally going off of OMGUS I should be scumming you right? I'm not because you are clearly responding to my posts and we have established a dialog, I'm pretty sure you are town from that just not 100%. 6 & 7 both seem nitpicky to me Since I feel like your own reads are pretty weak I also find you being hypocritical calling mine weak. At this point I think we should just agree to disagree and hate each other for the rest of the game... ok? + Show Spoiler + Not serious about that, I just really feel like this is a total "kettle calling the pot black" situation | ||
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My read on you had changed even before you posted your little quote + picture thing. Your a weak town lean for me atm. My initial read on you was actually kinda null. I mentioned you might be scum since I was noticing a similarity in your posts this game to last game where you were mafia. The whole thing was a pretty weak meta read tbh. In fact having reviewed some of the post game stuff from NSM X I see that you went inactive that game due to internet issues, not anything to do with alignment. Given that, I do need to give you a fresh read, so here I go. First I notice you've mentioned this a couple times... Still worries me no one defending GG much. I kinda like your thought process here. Your saying that since nobody is even trying to defend him it suggests to you that he is Town yes? I see one flaw in that thinking and would like to use last game as evidence. Whats to stop scum from bussing their partner? That's what your team did last game when you fell under suspicion and were not around to defend yourself. Besides, there is one person who has been pretty outspoken about defending GG, and you just spent the last page interacting with him. Not sure how you missed ritoky saying this... As for what I like, look at his filter. To me he highlights all but maybe 1 or 2 of what I thought were the most important posts in the first 20 pages and gives an opinion/read on them. He comments on kickstart's opening, he comments on SL/TT interactions, he properly reads me town, he comments on kickstart being bullish, he comments on nydus' entry, and then he addresses the questions posed to him after he catches up. It just reads as town reading the thread and commenting on stuff he finds relevant. The bolded part is just me picking at Nits again. I find it odd that ritoky throws in a subtle "I'm town" in the middle of his read on GG. Still his overall points aren't too bad, and even has me rethinking my own position a little. I'd still like to hear from GG himself though. It really does bug me that he'd scum me early on then ignore my reactions to it. Him asking me to restate my response didn't help, kus it also tells me that he isn't willing to do his own reading + Show Spoiler + this is a trend I've noticed in this community that REALLY bugs me. Reading is super important in forum based Mafia, if you can't be bothered to do it, imho, you shouldn't be here. It looks like GG might be new here, so maybe I'm overreacting. This has me questioning just how much you yourself are paying attn to this game. I'm not going to scum you for not having 100% perfect reading retention or comprehension though. Actually the whole interaction I saw between you and ritoky looked pretty good. This question to Kick was great, Who would you be willing to lynch beyond GG, Kickstart? That tells me that even though you're scumming GG you are looking beyond him as well. That is great town thinking imo, scum would just focus w/e target they pick and try to get others to do the same no? I also like how you pointed out that my "read" on milo there was kinda bad. I don't really like the term "wishy washy" I think it's one of those political terms that attacks indecisiveness, but w/e you have a point. I was giving milo some benefit of the doubt for being new here and was mostly saying I need to see more from him to get a solid read. Thus far I'm not super impressed with him. He's a slight scum lean to me. I poked him a little when I was interacting with ritoky to see what he would do. Mostly I saw him deflecting and not wanting to get pulled into the discussion there. I did find it interesting how me mentions that he doesn't agree with GG being a good lynch. Actually... @milo Care to expand on your thoughts on GG? | ||
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Scott, I think your a pretty strong town lean right now. Honestly I'm not sure I would have voted for you today anyways. I'd feel terrible seeing you lynched D1 3 games in a row... lol. | ||
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GG Choco milo SL SL might actually be higher up than milo, he's lurking too much for my tastes this game. Onegu should prob be on that list as well, there was something about his tone I liked though. Need to see more out of him before I have a solid read though. There's a few other players I'm not paying much attn to atm, Nydus & Fidei most notably I think. I'll be around before and through EoD so I'll reassess then. | ||
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On June 04 2015 18:39 Onegu wrote: Didnt I already tell you Milo and Chocolate are town. I am fairly certain I posted that... And what if I told you I prefer Vanilla... | ||
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On June 04 2015 18:59 Fidei86 wrote: @ritoky - Could you give an explanation for why you have changed up your play-style so much from the start, where you were posting images and generally appearing to be something of a troll, to now where you are asking good questions and giving good analysis. It's confusing to me, and I'd be very interested in your reasoning / thought-process. This is a pretty useless post to be honest. I'm far more interested in what his change of style makes you think about him... | ||
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Sorry let me be clear. I'm far more interested to hear what YOU make of ritoky's change in style, than to see you post that and wait for his response | ||
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On June 04 2015 19:45 Fidei86 wrote: @ticktock also, why do you think it was a useless post? Did I miss an earlier discussion on this point (which I accept is possible)? Do you not think his behaviour is at all suspicious? No, I'm leaning town on ritoky. A transition from trolly posting to more serious discussion is exactly what I expect D1. I like your response though. Even though I disagree that this shift in behavior is indicative of anything. Your thinking isn't bad there either, I like you questioning a noticeable shift in a players attitude. I thought this post from ritoky felt like a decent tone shift given then surrounding conversation On June 04 2015 12:55 ritoky wrote: i am going to stop responding to you now. i will start saying very rude things rather than do anything worth while. needless to say i have a very low value of your opinion at this point. you could very well be mafia, and at best a donkey town. my reads are good. you should start listening to them at some point. His next post detailed out his thoughts a little better so I gave it a pass at first. Since you are bringing up shifts in play I recalled this small oddity. Also, this "donkey town" comment is a weird insult I've seen from a few people over several games. I take it to mean I'm being a stubborn ass? I found your post useless because the question was so open ended. It looked very passive and more like an effort to look active without actually doing anything. | ||
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I'm liking your more recent posts more, despite the fact that your still gunning for me pretty hard. At least now I can confirm it's due to your own thinking and not some kinda sheep like i thought before. I'm not familiar enough with this "Chezinu" stuff to refute any of it, but my "vote" on ritoky was mostly random pressure to see if he's give us something more solid thanks to it. I'm not sure I follow your thinking between Kick and myself and why one of us has to be mafia in your eyes. It seems kinda WIFOM to me, but maybe its from this trolly-response thing your taking really seriously? Then there's this post. I don't get where your thinking is coming from here at all. I was never talking about Kick in that post, expect in reference to scotts post where he asks Kick about his other reads. And I never said I liked scotts push on Milo, I liked him calling out my own weak read on Milo. I'm still having a very hard time understanding where you are coming from with your read on me and you misreading or misinterpreting my post there isn't helping. I have this feeling like you've just reached some pre-drawn conclusion about me at this point and are making excuses to keep it. | ||
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On June 05 2015 02:25 Damdred wrote: If we policy lynch id rather lynch SL than oneg though because oneg has tl family things I could possibly get behind a policy lynch, but I'm still having a hard time understanding where GG is coming from. I'm not convinced he's town yet. I think it's pretty odd that SL has been absent. There is possibly some out of game stuff going on behind that though (not sure how cool it is to talk about that stuff). I'm pretty unimpressed with Onegu. I thought he's maybe respond a little last night when he bounced in but sadly Kick was the only one to respond to my silly response to his silliness. Choco is another person I need to look at in more detail. His attitude towards voting VE plus his other weak scum reads after he said he prioritizes scum reads has me not too fond of him atm. And I was also expecting a little more content from you EoD Damdred... at least you never took that 18-30hr leave of absence. | ||
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On June 05 2015 03:11 Fidei86 wrote: @Scott - could you explain what you mean by "he will shine his moments when need be"? Have you played with him before? I'd like to know this as well. Something about Onegu's tone is making me not want to lynch him, but I have to admit his posts are total shit at this point. | ||
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Nydus just looks null to me right now. Don't see anything that is raising flags to me, but is also skating by a little. Her formatting fail in the first 2 posts is oddly dominating her filter imo, but maybe that's just kus it's a short filter and I had to reread those posts. I'm leaning town on Fidei. I'm prob going a little easy on him kus, being fairly new myself, I have a soft spot for newbies. I did really like how he responded to me calling his question to ritoky useless though. All said and done my lynch list hasn't really changed since I posted it. I hope I'm putting aside my OMGUS reaction to GG with my vote on him, I realize that's probably biased my read, I'm just not understanding his thinking and he seems weirdly dead set on lynching me. | ||
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On June 05 2015 03:49 VisceraEyes wrote: This game is so weird, the people I DON'T expect to have reads on me do and the people I DO expect to have reads on me don't. If it makes you feel better I'm going to have to drop my easy town read on you tomorrow and reread. Though I'm still pretty sure your town... | ||
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On June 05 2015 03:53 Damdred wrote: Can we lynch ks for voting GG dissapearing and not caring leading up to voe and having no real reads of his own. The nylis read he discarded under pressure and honestly besides shit fighting with me which he called omgus he has 0 follow up at this point or seemed to care that the people he wanted to give reads have given reads or not instead pushing a thread sentiment wagon onto GG Is this because you disagree that GG is scummy? Or are you just gunning for that Traffic Cop position Kick snagged at the start of this game? | ||
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Well I'm reading Kick as pretty town so I'm not getting behind the idea of lynching him. I am trying to get more about GG. I don't get his thinking, he is borderline tunneled on me imo, and up till his last few posts he seemed to be cherry picking posts to respond to while ignoring other stuff. It's looking like he may bot be back for EoD so if I'm going to consider another lynch I need more to go on about him. | ||
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On June 05 2015 04:05 ritoky wrote: VE, do you know what i find to be the most compelling reason to stay on chocolate at the moment is? that you or i are pretty much every single player in the game's #1 town read and yet we are the only 2 on this vote lol. that shit is blowing my mind.... I've been warming up to Damdred a little. However I'm pretty sure you were right that you and I are not likely to be friends this game. This post from you just looks like your trying to strong arm the thread. You also mentioned Kick is the 2nd loudest person this game.. I'm not sure if this was your opinion, but I def think you have been the loudest thus far. | ||
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I don't mind Kicks entrance post. It's pretty NAI, though I'll admit I don't like how he throws out this line that's almost like he pre-targeted us. So this is directed to everyone but specifically directed @ Damdred and Tictock: Getting past that quote I've generally agreed with his reads on people, so that has me leaning town on him. The biggest thing to me that has me liking Kick is that he has acted as a voice of reason a few times when people start getting into arguments or tunneled. I don't recall the exact situation where I noticed him doing that. Just his general demeanor and attitude has been to town's benefit. Even if I was null reading him I wouldn't lynch him today. | ||
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On June 05 2015 04:13 ritoky wrote: also @TT do you know what the chez rule is? Just what scott posted before, which is apparently not the full deal? I haven't had a chance to check into it myself. | ||
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Any advice on what I should pay attn to to help me understand GG's thinking here? | ||
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On June 05 2015 04:25 ritoky wrote: Basically when people haven't met or don't know Chezinu and they experience the Chezinu experience for the first time they tend to think he is a giant troll who is completely useless. This usually results in someone saying something along the lines of "fuck this guy ##vote" and such sentiments. The first person who does this to Chezinu has demonstrated a % of being mafia near 90% or more. It is actually pretty ridiculous. The initial basis of Templar's scum read on you is based on this rule. He is saying that this game I was acting as Chezinu at the start of the game, and that you were the first person to effectively say "fuck this trollzy guy ##vote". Scott was trying to say you were playing the role of Chezinu, but I don't really see that. Ah... what does the rule say if I was responding in an equally trolly manner? My reaction was far from "Screw this, ##VOTE" was much more "Ok, lets play ##VOTE" I had a similar reaction to Onegu. | ||
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On June 03 2015 06:32 Tictock wrote: Crap, and I was like about ready to make that sure fire case on you too... ##Unvote Even if the post was premade and is NAI, the content was at least good. Or do you have a different opinion about inactives ritoky? | ||
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Like he's simply going off the fact that I responded to you being trolly, not why or how... | ||
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When I do that that leaves half his filter and I don't find much content in that that I either like or agree with. Is there any reason why scum would not use this "chezinu" stuff to just make and stick to a read like he is doing? | ||
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So to me it is between GG and Choco atm. | ||
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I have OGI that I've been asked not to share regarding that. Sorry, it's a weird situation. | ||
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On June 05 2015 04:59 ritoky wrote: ....is that OGI reason alignment indicative? i am very confused.....also i know there's shit going on with him in the bans list. if the ban goes through are we guaranteed a replacement instead of a modkill? I think it's best to ignore the situation till GB weighs in. | ||
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On June 05 2015 05:00 Damdred wrote: If you think someone is scummy how are they being good for the town... That's nonsense I don't see his walls of text as scummy like you do. I just don't like them. | ||
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Gah, well I can't waste my vote then. ##Unvote ##Vote: Chocolate | ||
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On June 05 2015 04:48 Damdred wrote: Case on kick start: Posts are quite large but lack a lot of content that the length of posts shoud curtail. Ok yes, this is a scumtell. However it also seems consistent enough that it could just be his style of writing. I'd rather give him a chance to start making better posts than lynch him today for this. Hounds people for reads but when confronted for his own reads he gives only smoke scum read that is rehashed fom others in the thread, sl scum read at this point is an afterthought and feels contrived. This applies to a lot of people actually. In fact my biggest issue with ritoky is very similar. He hounds me for not liking one post and saying my reads are weak, but when I look at his own reads I think they are some of the more lacking this game. When asks about a town read gives a weak list post, and when confronted on another read that doesn't make sense he backs off of it completely. Humm, I should relook at that interaction, that is actually fairly scummy. I didn't look at it that way at first. Shit fights me with for calling his posts out. Instead of concluding I'm scum from such things he concludes I just don't like him. Again, I'm relating this to my exchange with ritoky. I came out concluding that we dont like each other, but I'm not really seeing much scum on him. Talks to me like I'm town and just tunneled on him instead of one of his top scum reads. Has sheeped thread sentiment almost at every turn. condensed feelings I'm not sure I agree with the rest of your points, they aren't bad but ... idk I'm getting the feeling this is similar overreacting to stuff like what happened early in the game with milo. | ||
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On June 05 2015 05:20 Kickstart wrote: I like how scum team chocolate and damdred are trying to create chaos with only an hour to go, nice way to try and ensure a mislynch by pulling these stuns with under an hour left. You really think they are a possible team? or is this OMGUS? | ||
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On June 05 2015 05:23 ritoky wrote: fuck me i really need to get this right....templar looks like he is gonna novote and make me pissed for the 2nd game in a row about no-voters...i would really rather not lose 2 town day 1. Humm? You don't have faith in your vote? | ||
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On June 05 2015 05:25 Damdred wrote: Ehats the point of concluding someone just doesn't like you if you are scum reading them? It should 100% be that scum os trying to push a mislynch but look how kick is reacting at first. Damdred just doesn't like me. Damdred is tunneled. If he legitimately thinks I'm scum the first thought should be damdred is scum frying to lynch me the firstbtwonreactions are iinfrring I'm being bad town not scum. Ehh. You might be right. I just think you are both a little tunneled atm. I don't like seeing my townreads going at it like this... | ||
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On June 05 2015 05:26 scott31337 wrote: I told him at least twice in our interactions about the voting thread too gosh darn it. You did. Hell I'd forgotten about it till you said something, so thanks for that. That is partially why I've been scumming GG anyways kus he's not really reading peoples interactions with him. But that's probably a moot point now. | ||
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On June 05 2015 05:28 ritoky wrote: i have lost some faith in chocolate being scum, and i really believe templar is scum. so currently it looks like we are for sure losing 1 town today....i want to make a good choice and not lose 2. the only way i see chocolate being scum right now is if he is scum WITH TEMPLAR because of their thread re-entry. if one was scum and the other wasn't i feel they would push the opposing wagon. and if that is the case, then templar dying will be a free dead scum. Is it a bad sign that this logic pleases me since I'm reading them both as scum? GG's vote just seems like it's too hand wavey justified to me. I guess you put a lot more faith into this theory of play than I do, but to each their own on playstyle choice. Choco has been making similarly bad scumreads and votes. This switch onto Kick seems really scummy to me as well. | ||
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Stay on Chocolate, don't fall into last minuet OMGUS voting | ||
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Kick, why are you like rallying people to vote you? | ||
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On June 05 2015 05:53 ritoky wrote: i think that if chocolate is mafia, he is likely with templar, so a mafia will die today regardless. Should we really assume Mod decisions ahead of time though? You are likely right, but why assume? | ||
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On June 05 2015 06:26 scott31337 wrote: You should've claimed earlier when it was so close. Gosh darn it 100% agree. I cant believe Damdred & ritoky just got our Jailkeeper lynched D1. Milo was at least consistent with his read, though he seemed to be rethinking his vote last min. Choco was voting for his life I get that, but it's also a fantastic way to push a ML. Fidei... I don't even know. I'm pretty frustrated by that EoD. At least we didn't end up with like 4 Modkills... | ||
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Since you are taking over for SL, I give you a weak scum read. That is all. I'm out for the night but will check in later in Night phase. | ||
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On June 05 2015 06:39 Damdred wrote: I'm not sure why ritoky and myself should get all the blame? The logical,thing is if you are so scared you are getting lynched claim when there's time to parse the information. My points had value, he did do questionable,things . Tick immediately moving to discredit someone who steeped and the leader of the wagon is interesting Before I head out the door let me respond to this, kus it is pissing me off a little. First, I'm upset that you guys just got our jailkeep lynched. I stated time and time again that i was against it and tried to go against your push on him. Maybe you and ritoky aren't scum for starting the wagon on Kick, I get that. However this subtle deflection back to me when I just stated I was about to head out for awhile looks super shitty. You guys def deserve some blame for that lynch. I wasn't going to scum you for it, but I sure as hell scum you after posting that. I already thought Choco was scum. Why should I feel any different now? | ||
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Such a painful way to end D1. Not only did we lose the only blue role we had but I was literally freaking out that there was about to be a mass wave of Modkills there. I could easily have seen GG and Milo getting Modkilled, and was worried Fidei and possibly even ritoky would be on the receiving end of the same hammer. Rather disappointing to see that actually, people do better at following the rules in newbies games... I'll get to my views on Damdred here shortly, but first I do want to address something about what Kick did. Kick REALLY needed to have claimed earlier. I get what was going on in his head, he knows that if he claims he'll get NK'd N1 and doesn't want to waste his role. However, claiming and giving town the chance to lynch someone else is the far better move here. Now I don't think Kick believed he would get lynched, hell I still have a hard time believing that wagon took shape so quickly, and that is why he held off his claim. In the future though, Kick, instead of doing that weird countdown timer stuff.. CLAIM! It sucks you were forced to do it, but would have been nice to maybe catch scum in exchange for you being NK. Ok, now on to Damdred. I looked back in his filter and did see that he was on the line of thought that Kick could have been scum for a decent part of the day. It's mostly just a series of "humm, I don't like this" posts regarding Kick that suddenly turned into a case on him ~2 hours before EoD. I'm actually being generous with ~2 hours, that's when he made this post, but his actualy case on Kick doesn't appear until here an hour before EoD. For Reference: Posts where Damdred mentions Kick (probably not in order, sorry) + Show Spoiler + On June 03 2015 06:27 Damdred wrote: Let us get right to it. I would generally just come out with my ritoky read right off the bat but I'm going to hold off here for a few reasons. Need to see more postings at this point. However I don't get why tick is being so weird about Sl and him tunneling in previous games it just feels a bit fake? Also he mentions other people he's suspicious of? I'm not sure what that is, overall his postings give me a strange feeling. Kick while I agree with his post it isn't alignment indicative to an extent pre made posts usually aren't. Moving on I need a henchman to do,my bidding who,will it be On June 04 2015 05:25 Damdred wrote: So basically almost 24 hours in game you only have a strong opinion that 2 people are town one lean and the rest is null. Meh that post just irks me, it says a lot without actually doing much bah. On June 04 2015 08:02 Damdred wrote: Chin up ritoky and help me solve the game. I'm nto sure that KS is scum, I think that the point you brought up is a good one though and I could see scum accidently aligning themselves like that. Sort of like I did in the game where I called vivax town even though we drastically differed on our reads. Who else do you think is scum? On June 04 2015 10:27 Damdred wrote: On a more serious note id probably lynch into this group today any questions just ask kick templars chocolate I'm leaving of fi now because his post was...interesting. but have to look again tomorrow at a few. On June 05 2015 03:53 Damdred wrote: Can we lynch ks for voting GG dissapearing and not caring leading up to voe and having no real reads of his own. The nylis read he discarded under pressure and honestly besides shit fighting with me which he called omgus he has 0 follow up at this point or seemed to care that the people he wanted to give reads have given reads or not instead pushing a thread sentiment wagon onto GG On June 03 2015 09:25 Damdred wrote: Also everyone is demanding more and more reads from him but the main person who,keeps screaming for,more reads gives one leaves thread promises more comes back and doesn't deliver and,nobody talks about it. On June 05 2015 01:41 Damdred wrote: Kick isn't low hanging fruit, chocolate is borderline depending, template maybe. But going after people who did scummy things isn't alignment indicative as you seem to infer. not sure why me not wanting to lynch fi because you said it before makes me scum? Totally a misrepresentation of what's going on in the thread at this point in time. In fact pretty sure I have more wouldn't lynch reads, but that's not the point. The point is that kick was giving everyone hard times about giving reads and not doing so himself and when pressed didn't even answer the questions applied to him. So how does this make me scum? Not sure why someone ignoring questions getting called on it and only responding when he's pinged out makes me scum rather it makes me someone who cares about if his questions are followed up on. Not sure what more you want in the first few hours of the game? None of this makes me scum a majority of it makes me town and you neither state why it males me scum or any conclusion you bring yourself on the matter. Notice the post there that mentions Kick appears to be absent EoD, and that's a redflag to Damdred? He posted it here and shortly starts to push into Kick. Now maybe that is a red flag to Damdred, but it seems like an odd thing to read into when there is still a few hours left for Kick to show up. I also learned in my last newbie game that not being present EoD is more of a towntell than a scumtell. Town will more often feel like their votes don't mean as much and just leave them where they may (not sure this applies, but I suspect that's the case for Onegu and Nydus). It's more often scum that is sitting around EoD waiting to see what happens. Of course RL stuff can also be good cause for missing EoD as well, so at worst I think not being around EoD is NAI. So #1 Damdred starts focusing Kick for "not being around" Now to look at his actual case: On June 05 2015 04:48 Damdred wrote: Case on kick start: Posts are quite large but lack a lot of content that the length of posts shoud curtail. Hounds people for reads but when confronted for his own reads he gives only smoke scum read that is rehashed fom others in the thread, sl scum read at this point is an afterthought and feels contrived. When asks about a town read gives a weak list post, and when confronted on another read that doesn't make sense he backs off of it completely. Shit fights me with for calling his posts out. Instead of concluding I'm scum from such things he concludes I just don't like him. Talks to me like I'm town and just tunneled on him instead of one of his top scum reads. Has sheeped thread sentiment almost at every turn. condensed feelings I responded to this post EoD already here. Really the only point that's solid here, at least imo, is the stuff about Kicks posting style being kinda bad. Even then though, is that enough to want to lynch people over? I don't think so, but I think VE said it best in this post. On June 05 2015 21:14 VisceraEyes wrote: Using formatting as a means of reading people is akin to throwing fucking rice in the air and using THAT to divine alignments. If that's what you're using to gauge others' alignments, then I really don't think you should be calling people's play bad and dumb, etc. I also found Damdred's reply to me telling him his case was bad fairly odd... Ehats the point of concluding someone just doesn't like you if you are scum reading them? It should 100% be that scum os trying to push a mislynch but look how kick is reacting at first. Damdred just doesn't like me. Damdred is tunneled. If he legitimately thinks I'm scum the first thought should be damdred is scum frying to lynch me the firstbtwonreactions are iinfrring I'm being bad town not scum. Like how was that addressing anything I brought up? Ok granted I wasn't very articulate in my defense of Kick and now i wish I had spent more time on that, but Damdred is just focused on Kicks reactions to him here, and just ignores my attempt to talk some sense into him. Thus #2: Damdred ignores criticisms of his own case, despite it being no better than others That point is somewhat subjective, but honestly was there a real solid case at EoD? I don't think anyone really brought a solid case to the table, which makes it easier to get town fighting over scraps. I'm also not very happy with this being the first real stance Damdred has taken this game. I wasn't the only one to call him out for being pretty "middle of the road" in terms of playstyle. I know Kick called it out as well and there might have been someone else but to be honest I don't have time to reread everything. Anyways, the point here is that Damdred promised that his reads would improve and that by EoD he'd have something more/better. I don't think he actually promised that to us, but it was kinda implied in a few of his posts. Still I think Kick had a good point here Well I am back, took me a bit to reread through the thread. :waves at Damdred:. Don't like Damdred railing on me at all and I still don't think he has given us what he promised earlier in the day, but I will save that for cycle 2. Here is Damdred trying to defend his playstyle. On June 03 2015 10:46 Damdred wrote: Actually the charges levels against me are meh, I've taken plenty of stances mostly town reads.... You call it middle of the road becauseee....idk haha. Anyway yeah I'll town read more people later figure out who I want to lynch in... 18 hours probably maybe 30. On June 03 2015 10:57 Damdred wrote: Ummmm idk if you know this or not but most wagons up to hour 12 in the cycle (12 hours left before end of day) generally don't get lynched. Most serious cases are presented and pushed at that point when more information is I'm thread generally. If you disagree with how I approach early game that's fine but I generally don't put weakass scum reads in the thread lol Maybe this is me getting lost in a little WIFOM but I suspect Damdred's style is moreso a cover to both hide passive play and give town a false sense of security about him. Remember Damdred was giving mostly townreads out and even stated he found townreads more useful than scumreads. I felt like that was an odd stance to take, but I've never played with him before so I thought maybe there is some value in it. I feel like I just saw the value of it EoD there. He used his "town friendly" position to help draw support to his first real scum read and push it through EoD. Damdred even asks people several times, politely, to give him this lynch... On June 05 2015 04:34 Damdred wrote: ...im not really tunneled? I just think your scummy and I want my lynch #3: Damdred focuses giving townreads to gain support and weight to his future reads. Last point I'd like to make here. I already mentioned how Damdred started scumming Kick when he believed Kick was going to be missing EoD. This is really scummy behavior to me, it's akin to kicking a man when he is down. Targeting people who aren't around to defend themselves is a great scum move to build a case long before anyone is likely to start questioning it. Thankfully Kick showed up fairly soon after but the resulting discussion ended up being more of a shit-show between the two which didn't help Kick's position at all. Damdred calling Kick tunneled is ironic when Damdred himself appears to be very much so after Kicks blood. Damdred did the same thing to me after EoD, AFTER I had stated I'd likely not be around for much of Night phase. He starts scumming me for blaming him for the lynch. Ok, maybe I had a bad reaction to EoD and calling out the people who voted for Kick looks scummy and wasn't the best thought out post of mine. At the same time though, we SHOULD look at the people who were on that wagon. As far as I can tell Milo is the only one who voted Kick who is definitely Town, after all he was the only person who at least had the sense to hop the wagon when Kick claimed.+ Show Spoiler + Fact I agree with ritoky, Milo is like 100% town, no way does Scum see a claim like that and try to change their vote at the risk of getting mod killed. Thus my last point #4: Damdred's scum reads fall on players who are not present in the thread --------------------- From everything I looked at I def think Damdred is scum. However I do want to make a couple points semi in his favor, really I just want to remind people of some of the bad reasons to scum him atm. If Damdred is scum I want to make sure we are scumming him for the right reasons. Being wrong =/= Mafia Starting a Wagon =/= Mafia A person of either alignment can do those things. It is more important to look at HOW they go about those things if you think a wagon is suspect. | ||
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Just see GG chanting my name and Fidei looking like he mighta gotten lost in WIFOM over there. I was tempted to try and look at the votes and whatnot, but it seems like a silly thing to do when no scum got lynched. Either I'm right about scum pushing for that lynch or they just had a grand old time sitting around watching town... Not sure if we should look at the outlier votes or not. There's not much to go on for either Nydus or Onegu... I'll prob just leave things at this case on Damdred for now, I'm really tempted to look at him and Choco being a possible team now though... I felt like I mighta noticed something when digging through his filter, but I could also just be tunneled and reacting to what Kick said EoD. I'll get back to that thought if it's still pertinent D2. | ||
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On June 05 2015 23:15 Fidei86 wrote: Hey TT - what is WIFOM? I'm struggling with some of the acronyms here.. It stands for Wine In Front Of Me, a reffernce to The Princess Bride in this scene. It applies to situations where you find yourself stuck in circular logic. Prob easiest to just give you this link as well. | ||
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If your trying to say it's a dumbtell... maybe Pretty obv a newb question too so w/e | ||
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wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=WIFOM On June 05 2015 23:20 Tictock wrote: It stands for Wine In Front Of Me, a reffernce to The Princess Bride in this scene. It applies to situations where you find yourself stuck in circular logic. Prob easiest to just give you this link as well. Guess I can't give 2 links in a post? | ||
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On June 05 2015 23:24 NydusHerMain wrote: I meant more like the most common WIFOM is when people say "I wouldn't do that if I were scum." Would you consider, "I'd do that as either alignment" WIFOM as well then? I haven't heard what your saying before. Also I might not fully understand what a dumbtell is myself... lol. More importantly, what do you think about my Damdred case? Is he actually as scummy as I think he is right now? | ||
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A heads up so people know, I'm working the next few days and have to be at work for next EoD. I'll def be around as I can but it wont be as much as I was D1. So any "inactivity" is NAI here! | ||
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On June 06 2015 00:31 Damdred wrote: Response to case: 1) Scum can not care about the lynch generally if people are on town. Scum can decide to just not care about be around for the lynch if its going there way that day. KS was very active at all points of the game before final day leading up to the lynch. 2) The points against KS aren't that bad and are pretty solid, you even call them not horrible. You just disagreed with them. That doesn't make them bad. 3) Nobody has ever explained why i'm middle of the road, I have distinct town reads and distinct scum reads. Just don't get the point and it doesn't make me scum, if I wasn't taking hard stances on people I could see thep oint but I have. 4) scum reading people while they aren't in the thread isn't alignment indicative O_o, if you keep things until someones here you won't get a lot of work done in 24 hours. By comparison I could say that you are guilty of the same thing when its clear that I am not in the thread why would you do such a thing. I was wrong, kick played his claim badly and got killed. That doesn't make me scum, what you are saying though is that one of the most vocal players in the thread, who took one of the most drastic stances in the game and pushed a lynch until it happens is scum. None of this makes me scum and in fact its not a very strong case that generally follows a narrative with you fitting in this stuff to try to make me look scummy So my initial reaction here, is to say something about Damdred returning to his "middle of the road" style here. However... that is not the response I would have expected from a Scum!Damdred to my case. I was pretty sure he'd be pushing me super hard with GG. + Show Spoiler + who is like kinda following the game? I'm not sure what to make of GG... I'll get back to him later. 1 is actually a good point, but is only valid if we assume that there was no wagons on scum. It's possible, but I'm wary of that since Choco was the lynch prior to Kick and the Kick wagon started just in time to give Choco a safe place to go. It's super WIFOM but a team of Dam, GG, Choco could make sense given how things went down, but yea.. wifom. On Points 2 and 3 I just disagree? It sounds lame, but I def did not find your case on Kick super solid. There were decent points, but I def think you were mostly playing off his wall-o-text writing style. I've tried to explain why I find your style suspicious. I also feel uneasy with this style of play right now given how you and ritoky seem to have a "thing" going on. I'm not saying you two are a team here, I dont see anything to suggest that, just that you two seem to have a history and that might have allowed you to push your way of thinking on him, similarly to how townreading people kinda gives them a sense you are their friend. Am I making sense here? I might be overthinking it, but it's def something that has me looking hard at Dam right now. 4, Granted you did call me out when you thought I was acting pretty scummy right away. I prob shouldn't have glanced at thread as I was getting ready to leave then let myself respond all pissed off kus it really looked like you were doing a similar push on afk me like happened with Kick. I will admit a few things. My initial post after EoD was definitely placing blame, I didn't really intend it that way + Show Spoiler + That was really just my honest "OMG I can't believe that just happened" reaction post I'm not willing to clear him as scum, but his response is what I would expect from Town who thought they had solid reasons to push that wagon. There is definitely nothing clear cut about how EoD went down, and the timing of stuff felt so weird to me. I think it deserves at least one last look over, but since my urge to chase Dam with Fire right now could well be the beginnings of a tunnel I'm going to hold off till we have a little more info in Day phase. @Dam I'm not a huge fan of meta reads, but if you share some of your past games (maybe one as either alignment) it may help me understand your style a little better. I know my first experience with SL had me scumming him so hard just kus of how he plays, I might be in a similar trap here. | ||
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I have to leave for work though. I doubt anyone from the Kick train is getting NK'd, and unless I'm on the right track I don't think I will be either. So I'll have to leave my thoughts there. Assuming I'm not killed feel free to pose any questions you guys have towards me. I'd like to see some more solid stuff being brought up D2. | ||
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On June 06 2015 10:33 Onegu wrote: Chezniu rule is what is about to apply to me. And we are going to us it to get our lynch today on Shendelzare. Basicly it means I play so randomly that who wants push my lynch is scum. Chez rule is first to call him scum. Onegu rule is people continuing to push his lynch. ##Vote Shendelzare Milo would be a ok vote also. Willing to vote either. I... dont even... Trying to read that is hard enough, I'm not spending any thought making sense of it. However, if Milo is no longer town yet Milo is still a type of chocolate where Onegu is from, then Chocolate is also not town. Thus by Onegu logic Choco is scum. Ok seriously now... I'd like to lynch choco today like we should have done yesterday. ##Vote: Chocolate | ||
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On June 06 2015 04:55 ritoky wrote: i know it is nitpicky, but this is the 2nd time you have done something like this. "i'd like some more solid stuff" implies that there is a solid/valid reason to make a scum case on you. Also while ritoky may no longer be with us to Pick at Nits I would like to respond to this post. Guess I should have hit enter or been more clear. "feel free to pose any questions you guys have towards me" = "stop talking about me and talk to me dammit!" (just more politely) "I'd like to see some more solid stuff being brought up D2" = "Hoping to see better reads and cases from people" | ||
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Your logic or the Chezniu stuff? I feel like the chezniu stuff is so arbitrary and doesn't take into account the variety of responses to a "Chezniu". Like I mentioned earlier, I tend to respond to trolly nonsense, with trolly nonsense. Whats the rule on that? | ||
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On June 06 2015 10:58 Damdred wrote: Why did both of you suddenly drop your scum reads on damdred? tick built a case on me and oneg was so sure I was scum he single voted on me. Neither of you are pushing me now when... Nothing had happened I made a reply to your reply, of my case. So some thoughts were in there. You still could be scum, but your response gave me some pause. Plus I'd like to take a step back so I don't get tunneled. I spent a lot of time this morning in your filter, if I do the same tonight I'll just end up doing what i did last game and trying to push you all game... Hell even you asking this question seems weird for you to do as scum... You'll prob call me scum for dropping you like that, but meh I'm getting used to it I guess? It gets easier when GG says I'm scum every other post... I would like to browse a game or two of yours from the past if you could link em. I'd like to see if I'm reacting too much to your style of play. | ||
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How do you feel about Choco today? I'd still like to lynch him. | ||
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However, I'm willing to accept that ritoky was right and that my reads on GG are too tainted with OMGUS though... | ||
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On June 06 2015 06:39 NydusHerMain wrote: I guess with respect for the lack of interaction, I think it mostly stems from no one responding to me and no one really calling me scum (up until this point). Whenever I gave my reads (although I guess people just ignored them because they seemed unsubstantial?? someone clarify) no one really seemed to care or react. When I called people scum, no one really reacted. Kind of felt discouraging more than anything. Was I supposed to copy and paste until someone responded or I got modkilled? So... what are your reads going into today? I know you posted your reads in the night but I'm interested if they changed at all. Do you still think GG is scum? Care to respond to my case on Dam? I did interact with you shortly after I posted that, yet you never mentioned it. I know you are scum reading both of us atm, but surely me pushing Dam (even if I'm not right atm) shows that we both aren't mafia here... | ||
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On June 06 2015 11:47 Damdred wrote: I'm actually not sure that it makes you scum since you interacted with respinses I gave but I'm not sure if you've interacted with all my reads. Hiwever oneg is probably the worst offender here I think... Actually I really agree with you there. This is twice now I've tried to respond/interact with him and have gotten nothing out of it... | ||
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Humm, 99% solved eh, game is too easy for ya huh? I see... Well scott and Onegu, the jig is up... I'd say this in QT but clearly this man knows too much. Time to call it in boys... GG, GG >.< | ||
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On June 06 2015 12:19 Chocolate wrote: Sorry for my absence, got a longish car ride tomorrow so I'll hopefully be able to be pretty active I'm not diggin this excuse when you have basically just gone "poof" since EoD. | ||
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On June 06 2015 15:10 Onegu wrote: Proof of Chez rule and what people on site think of it I checked that Link, and found my way to a game of Chezinu being a Champion. Chez made me smile... Onegu made me smile D1. Onegu is town. I have come upon the townie known as ritoky in a past life, and as such still know him in spirit. Thus the proxy spirit of Chezinu is known to me in him. I, in response to the spirit of Chez embraced the nature of ritoky's posts and returned it in kind. Thus I was the 2nd coming of Chezinu. Blinded by the return of the town savior GG gets a renewed taste of the Chezinu Experience and is forced to vote me. His blindness ensues, and thus his doom is secured. + Show Spoiler + I shouldn't post this late at night... | ||
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I was working on my own case for as to why GG is the best lynch today, but given VE's gone and done the same thing I'll just go ahead and post what I had thus far, even though I hadn't filled out all my thoughts with quotes and such. I honestly find GG to be the best lynch today. I know my opinion is biased here, I don't care to be mislynched to prove GG is wrong here (If that's what it takes to solve this game, then go for it I wont blame you), so keep that bias in mind. GG has basically shown that he is simply not sure that he isn't sure about anyone but me, yet is willing to claim he's 99% sure about this game. He throws out my name in every post as though chanting my name. This is subtle manipulation on his part, it's the same tactic used in commercials to get you to remember something and keep thinking about it. He throws around spots in his reads like he's offering safe passage to those he "reads town" He throws out his Townreads on Kick and Ritoky like they were candy that everyone should enjoy, and then remember who gave them out so they will accept more later. This is such an easy move for scum to make since they actually know who is town. GG barely recognized that Kick had died or was our ONLY blue role. I'm pretty ok lynching Choco as well atm (more activity from him may change my mind here), but I think GG will just continue to be a detriment like this until either He or I flip. Part of me wants to look at the possible scumteam here, as it makes so much sense if GG, Choco, and Dam were mafia here. However I'm not convinced Damdred is in fact scum given his reactions to my case and most of my association between GG and Choco comes from what ritoky suggested EoD1, which may or may not be accurate. In fact right now I'm pretty sure that these people are town. VE scott milo Leaning Town Damdred Onegu Null/unsure Nydus Fidei Shendelzare (I honestly need to see more or interact more before I can make a read) Scum - Should be Lynched GG Choco | ||
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On June 06 2015 14:08 GGTeMpLaR wrote: If you are so sure Chocolate is mafia you should be pushing on him and trying to build cases against him, not attacking me for not going on him with you. VE you have been demoted to the lower-null section for said reason. Scott/Onegu there's an opening in upper-null if you want to project town. That is not how you hunt for scum... | ||
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I was kinda hoping to hear from Choco by now though. I don't want to read too much into it, but I can't help but get the feeling he's trying to hold back and stay out of people's way so that he's not lynched today. @Shendelzare Since your a bit late to the part and have spent most of your time this far catching up, can you please post some form of reads list or at least where you generally are leaning on everyone atm? I'm not sure I know where you stand right now. | ||
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If anyone wants to chat with me, poke my reads/case, or w/e you've got about 3~hrs to do it. | ||
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#1 - GG has basically shown that he is simply not sure that he isn't sure about anyone but me, yet is willing to claim he's 99% sure about this game. He makes this assertion here. D1 he was sure that it was either myself or Kick that were Mafia. He hardly pushed Kick instead, flipped his read rather suddenly and kept focus on me. This was shortly before Kick becomes the EoD wagon and eventually gets lynched. To GG this now has me as "confirmed" scum. This thinking is dangerous as town, and seems to clearly be scum motivated to me. As scum, this makes perfect sense as it suggests to town that they have a 50/50 chance one day with a confirmed scum lynch the next day. If scum can set this situation up and have it gain credence then it's a great way to get 2 ML's for one stubborn argument. Even if the end result is Scum!GG being lynched on the 3rd day this would be hugely productive for scum. As town it is highly questionable to make this case, as since you cannot have perfect information (and losing out Blue role means Town can't glean any extra info this game) and thus if you are wrong you are sentencing 2 town to be killed. Thus if you want to suggest a move like this as town you had better have solid evidence to backup this plan. I fail to see that evidence coming from GG. #2 - He throws out my name in every post as though chanting my name. This is subtle manipulation on his part, it's the same tactic used in commercials to get you to remember something and keep thinking about it. I'm not even sure I need to bother proving this one, it is clearly the tactic GG is using here. Instead I'll return to why GG is scumreading me, the Chez rule. I would like to point out that GG is clearly basing his assertion that I am scum off the Chez Rule, yet he does next to nothing to backup his belief in the Chez rule. It was scott who first tried to explain it, then ritoky posted links, and Onegu posted another one. GG would rather paraphrase the rule in order to get it to fit this situation and stick to it, then give any real evidence about the Chez Rule. Having now done my own reading and looking into it I can see why GG isn't giving out those links. His play is not very in line with how Chez would play out his rule. In the Champions Game Onegu linked to, you can clearly see that Chez is willing to think outside his own rule, and while he comes back to it time and again he never lets the rule fully cloud his judgment. I also have a hard time believing Chez would allow his vote to be wasted like GG let his "vote" on me go to waste D1. #3 - He throws around spots in his reads like he's offering safe passage to those he "reads town" I quoted the post he made where he stated this a couple of posts ago. Again, I think this point speaks for itself. I'm really interested if anyone has anyway to explain how this thinking could possibly be good or helpful. #4 - He throws out his Townreads on Kick and Ritoky like they were candy that everyone should enjoy, and then remember who gave them out so they will accept more later. The post where he does this is here, but here is the portion I found most interesting. Multiple people, including this now confirmed town and another strong town read of mine (ritoky) have now posted speaking very positively of my recent posting yet Tictock continues to insist that it 'doesn't make sense'. I readily assume that if this many people are capable of reacting positively to it while TT continues to insist a tentative read in regards to my push on him, wanting to push back on me, but having too many people speak positively of my posting, that it would be natural for a mafia to be inclined to feign 'confusion' rather than continue to 'tunnel back against me' or 'flop on me and read me as town'. Also, I would like to point out that in the end, my conclusion to townread Kickstarter was correct. I say this to promote the integrity of my reads so I can get other villagers to follow me when I say 'vote ticktock' and 'I will add kickstarter to my town list' so that you people stop lynching my townreads and I'm not the only one voting my scumread at EOD. This is such an easy move for scum to make since they actually know who is town. GG is quick to throw out that he was townreading Kick, yet he barely recognized that Kick had died or was our ONLY blue role. He spins his read on ritoky the same way, just saying "I knew he was town, listen to me" Saying you were right about Townreads is the worst way to prove you are town as it is the easiest way for Mafia to show that they are town as well. If anything people should be more afraid to listen to GG given this statement. #3 & 4 together pretty much prove to me that GG does not have Town interests in mind. I also find there to be ample explanation as to why Scum!GG would be acting this way and pushing me like this. Maybe it's a little WIFOM, but I don't think scum is sweating losing a member of their team right now if it has the potential of getting another ML and creates further confusion and misdirection at the same time. | ||
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On June 07 2015 02:21 Shendelzare wrote: On my phone but since you asked Tic Town - VE (posting), milo (EoD) Lean town - Damdred Not sure - Scott, Fidei Scum lean - Tic, Chocolate (posting but could move after further review), NHM (need to see more) Scum - Templar Thanks. Besides myself being a scum lean I'm pretty much on the same page as you ^.^ I also feel Nydus is lurking far too much. Maybe I should spend the rest of my time today diggin through his filter. I need to reread his Reads post as well and see if there is decent thinking in that or not. Where are you on Onegu? I know he is a tough one to read but I see him missing in your post there... | ||
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On June 07 2015 03:01 Damdred wrote: Anyway i'm mostly caught up. Firstly I don't think the oneg/Chezinu rule applies to me here. Firstly I wasn't the first person to put scum on oneg or to vote oneg I believe. (the chez rule is a fine rule XD) Secondly I have/had a decent reason to vote on oneg at that moment in time. He had a scum read on me, then pushed someone else next phase without a mention of me. VE is obvious town here, his case on GG isn't horrible its decent to sheep. I'm still not sure that it makes GG mafia personally I think that Nyus is more mafia than GG at this point. But VE seems so sure i'm just willing to trust him here. Good luck Dam, I've been trying to argue that point in regards to GG and myself... These easy strats are too strong! Maybe if Chez were here himself we wouldn't have a leg to stand on, but since he is not I don't believe we can follow his rule. I'm also a little hurt you overlooked my own case. Do you not care about what I think if it's not in regards to you? I get it, you still think I could be scum here. Just don't leave those blinders on too long. Tunnels are bad, Don't stay in Tunnels, mmm'k? @ Onegu Trolls live under bridges, bridges are really just tunnels over the water, thus trolls live near tunnels and tunnels are bad. + Show Spoiler + Please include the occasional post with some logic/reasoning. I think I get your style, but, assuming your town, don't make yourself an easy mislynch. | ||
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I'm really unhappy that this was his last post over 24hrs ago, and was one of like 3 posts since EoD... On June 06 2015 12:19 Chocolate wrote: Sorry for my absence, got a longish car ride tomorrow so I'll hopefully be able to be pretty active However, we have 2 solid cases on GG, I still think we should be lynching him today. | ||
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Given how this game has been going I think there is high chance of at least one, but possibly more, scum lurking. I think looking into the lurkers, will be a good thing to start doing in the next few days. Ugh sorry, I'm taking close to 5 min to make these super short posts kus my brain is fried & I'm losing my train of thought so easily. I should just get some sleep. I'll be more worthwhile in the morning,even if for only an hour or so. | ||
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On June 07 2015 13:50 Shendelzare wrote: I am voting Templar. Vote will stay on him. I don't think it hurts to discuss others though. And I missed day one so may as well comment on what I missed. No it's def good. I think we have too many lurkers atm and need to look into them more. I'll read whatever gets posted in more detail when i wake up. | ||
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United States6051 Posts
On June 07 2015 16:39 GGTeMpLaR wrote: no thanks I came to play mafia not coach half the game through reading comprehension 500 times. that was mostly for bragging rights post-game anyways I've had too many bad accusations put against me for pushing on mafia On June 07 2015 18:31 GGTeMpLaR wrote: idc i solved the game for myself im not gonna waste time teaching english lessons at this point i'm too frustrated at the number of people misreading me and making shit up And then with this thrown in... On June 07 2015 16:11 GGTeMpLaR wrote: I've probably got 1 mafia in my townreads because it's too soon in the game You are so sure of yourself, so 100% that you solved the game, because of what? That you "know" I'm scum because I broke the proxy-"Chez Rule"? Like I don't get why you assume this is solid thinking... Ok if Chez WAS playing this game, then the Chez Rule would apply, sure I can see that given his style of play that I've looked into. If you want to go down with this logic... then I dont get why Onegu is not our "proxy-CHez" this game. I'm not sure the "Onegu Rule" is as solid, but it at least applies to this game since Onegu is here. Onegu is easily the closes person in our game to a "Chez" yet you focused my reaction to ritoky, and call out "You broke Chez's rule". I'd say if you want to apply any "chez rule" this game you should use Onegu as your proxy. I'm not mentioning Chez the rest of this game. I dont think any of his rules or logic applies when he is not playing. Trying to use his "rule" as solid fact in this game, while not even trying to mimik the finer points of his play is absurd. From my point of view you Wasted your vote 2 days in a row following this nonse, while not listening to anyone telling you that it's not enough. I also don't get how you can think I'm scum, yet ignore anything I do to try and talk to you... That is just bad play, it probably means your scum or you are a stubborn mule of a town (yes I'm borrowing this line from ritoky a bit). On June 07 2015 16:44 GGTeMpLaR wrote: shame you guys lynched him when I called him town now you're lynching me Your not the only one who did, and as I and Shen have pointed out, Scum can use "I pointed out Town!" All game long... This proves nothing. You were also being considered Scum D1 for similar reasons, but you never use your "Reading comprehension" to catch onto that fact and adapt to the game. In fact as far as I can tell, you never really cared to play this game. This would explain how you never caught on to the fact you didn't actually vote D1, even when it was clearly stated by Mods throughout the day, as well as Scott pointing it out in. Then you ignore the fact that Kick got lynched, or was our only blue role, and manage to only post this after you learn that your "dear townread" Kick had died N1. On June 05 2015 13:02 GGTeMpLaR wrote: Also, losing jailer is pretty bad. You then post this the same night. On June 05 2015 19:17 GGTeMpLaR wrote: Vigi plz shoot Tictock. Clearly you are neither playing this game, nor using reading comprehension yourself On June 07 2015 16:39 GGTeMpLaR wrote: no thanks I came to play mafia not coach half the game through reading comprehension 500 times. Right.... | ||
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On June 07 2015 14:37 Shendelzare wrote: Okay, now that is making a little more sense why you don't like Damdred, fine. But what do you think of him after the lynch? He posted some large case or something. Or do you just look at people how they view you and ignore everything else? That was me actually. I posted a decent sized post where I looked at Damdred N1 becasue of his involvement in starting a lynch that got people to swap off GG and Choco and got Kick lynched. Since Damdred responded to my case in a reasonable fashion and countered my arguments against him with good points and reasoning I found myself rethinking my stance on him. In retrospect my case on Damdred wasn't super solid, I think I had my points but they were far more circumstantial than actual scum tells. I still have my suspicions of Dam. His sheeping VE today seems a little out of place and Onegu might have a point, but I'm not going to read too much into those things right now. Damdred has generally been reasonable this game, and even though his wagon D1 got our Jailer lynched I'm not convinced hes scum for it. | ||
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Sorry I bailed out on you last night, just really was not awake enough to make sensible posts longer than a few lines. I like the interaction I see happening between Shen and Onegu. Onegu also really stepped up the posting. I'm moving Onegu into full town territory, and while I still find Shen somewhat null I'm def leaning town. | ||
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United States6051 Posts
On June 07 2015 20:16 NydusHerMain wrote: Looking at this post he finally gives his first set of reasons for his list of reads but he never actually mentions scott his once top scum and now obviously a town read. Now I want to note one thing, no templar read here and this is very important imo. I urge you guys to read this post very carefully. He calls scott town for his case against TEMPLAR (and scott was calling templar mafia and even was voting on him at this point based on the fucking chezblahblah rule) and never once mentioned templar until this point. Not only that, he calls templar likely town for what reason? That he's townier in his filter and that people are trying to bury his discussion under stuff. Scott's literal accusation versus templar is chezblahblah rule. What other reason could there be to bury his discussion under "stuff?" How could chocolate possibly be townreading Scott at this point? This is a very nice catch. Scum 100% tend to ignore each other in their reads. Last game I caught wind of scum from their D1 reasoning on their vote. The scumlette in question was reading PlayerA as scum and saw an association with PlayerB, she then went on to push PlayerB as scum for the rest of the day. As it turned out PlayerA was her scummate and PlayerB was just a newbie whom people had trouble reading. Scott can back this up if people don't care to read NSM X themselves. When I was writing my case on Dam N1 I thought I had picked up on a similar blind spot in his reads on Choco. It was mostly based on how Dam was tending to townread people D1, while Choco was pushing for Scum reads. I expected the two of them to clash a little because of it, but that never happened. I only bring that up now kus I was reminded of it by Nydus' post here. I thought it was a really weak point and am only leaving it out there now in case we later discover Choco is in fact scum. Dam is still leaning town for me right now. On June 07 2015 20:28 NydusHerMain wrote: Oh and if chocolate flips scum I think the votes make it very clear who his scum team can and can't be. Day 1 Vote Count Tictock(1): sicklucker <- shendalakajfkldsjfldjsal Chocolate(4): VisceraEyes, Scott, Kickstart, Tictock GGTemplar(1): NydusHerMain Kickstart(4): Damdred, Chocolate, ritoky, Fidei86 Damdred(1) Onegu Not Voting (2): GGTemplar, milo109 Yes, I'm calling myself town even though it doesn't fall into the logic because I am  . I'm thinking that onegu is likely to be mafia, sorry scott, I just can't trust your meta reads over my own personal read that he's scummy. I think he's low hanging fruit and needs to be lynched. I'm personally reading templar but if chocolate flips, I think that templar is one of the most likely mafia team mates because of the way chocolate soft defended templar in chocolate's posts with almost zero mention of templar before then. I don't think milo just unvotes as mafia but I can't help but think that if milo voted on chocolate, chocolate would've been lynched instead of our blue. Probably town but if he was mafia partners with chocolate, it would make a little bit of sense. Dunno if he would risk it though. Blah, gonna call him town, it's too risky to do it as mafia. Those are the people that mostly come to mind in my thoughts. No so sold on your logic here. You basically suggest everyone not on Choco D1 is potential mafia, IF choco flips red. Even if Choco flips red I think we can discard SL's vote on me, it was like his first post of the game where he voted me, it has nothing to do with Choco later becoming a possible lynch. Similar logic applies to Onegu's vote, though maybe not as much. You are looking a little better after these posts though. I'd like to see more like you from this. | ||
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United States6051 Posts
On June 07 2015 21:24 NydusHerMain wrote: Can you elaborate why you think onegu is townier? What did you like about his interactions? I admit, most of my reasons for reading Onegu as town are still based on tone. Still I challenged him at one point to step up his posting a little as did others. I saw him doing that in those interactions with Shen, thus that makes me more assured that he is town this game. | ||
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On June 07 2015 21:36 Onegu wrote: I just realized GG doesnt violate the onegu rule... On June 07 2015 21:38 Onegu wrote: Would actually like a Damdred lynch today. NO I AM THE BEST PLAYER HERE I DEMAND A DAMDRED LYNCH TODAY!!! Don't throw your vote away again today please... If you want to push Dam, you can put together something tomorrow... I'm assuming you don't have anything other than him breaking your rule today. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
I'm tempted to make a joke about a Tictock rule, but based on my last game the only one I have evidence of is that "A tunneled Tictock is often wrong, but always Town" As scott has pointed out a few times, I'm trying to learn from that and not get tunneled this game... Crap, I just made a rule and used it to show that I'm not 100% town this game. Fail. ^.^ Btw, I'm only around a little longer before i have to head to work. Wont be around EoD, but I'll be back a few hours after. | ||
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On June 07 2015 21:47 Onegu wrote: its the reasons for breaking the rule. are you guys not reading. Like actually read my day 2 I stopped trolling long ago. I know you did, and maybe your rule has some value... But I don't see that being a good argument to lynch Dam over GG. Thus you voting Dam simply for breaking your rule today w/o being able to convince anyone else is throwing your vote away. That was my point. If you think you have a convincing argument to accompany him breaking your rule, then lets hear that. | ||
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United States6051 Posts
I thought it was ok, according to the Onegu rule, to want to Policy Lynch you or lynch you in later days? You know what, no I'm done with these rules for now. Give me something a little more solid and we'll talk tomorrow... | ||
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United States6051 Posts
On June 07 2015 21:55 Damdred wrote: So I really don't care for GG attitude here. However nydus postings especially who could be scum doesn't make much sense to me... Besides everyone in the whole game? If we lynch me today I'm okish with it I've been real busy lately meh. I'm not sure I like that post either. Basically Nydus is saying everyone who isn't voting Choco D1 is possible scum, if Choco flips scum. ...Seems like a pointless statement actually. Anyway SL slots sudden change from town reading me now to partially scum reading me is interesting. I think tick is townish currently to. Kinda not sure what to do today. Come on dude, that's a bit rude. Ok maybe your just poping in quick kus your busy... but her name in in the OP now, it's Shendelzare. (Shen is what I haven been using) I know Nydus did the same thing, but I think he's just kinda going for abrasive atm. This is prob my last post till after EoD. I'd really like to lynch GG today, but at least part of that is since he is out to get me. So if not GG, we should at least lynch Choco. Though I'd rather at least hear from Choco again before we lynch him... I'm actually not a fan of lynching people who appear to have fallen off the earth. I've seen both town and scum do it so it's NAI in my mind. It's prob more of a sign of RL getting in the way than any indication of his alignment. | ||
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United States6051 Posts
On June 07 2015 22:22 Damdred wrote: How about we lynch sls slot or nydus, literally nydus still has no reads (well has some just that chocolate wagon all town rest of game scum). Kinda meh even about lynching the Sl slot though Nydus might not be bad, actually I'm thinking might be a very good lynch D3. Sorry I have to head out or I'd discuss more. | ||
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United States6051 Posts
Didn't GG give Nydus a fairly weak Town read D1? never really seemed to readdress him either... | ||
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I suppose that means I'm very likely to be lynched tomorrow then... I'll just take that as a challenge to find actual scum so I don't get mislynched tomorrow. @ Fidei I did forget to respond to your post about Scott and I from your look at ritoky's reads. I had intended to last night, but was failing to put together coherent thoughts. I'll reread it and respond here in a bit. I do think it was good advice to be wary of assuming why Mafia killed someone though. I can't image people often get NK'd due to their reads, least that's my experience based off my last 2 games. Far as I can tell scum tries to get rid of the most attentive, persuasive, and towniest of Town to make their lives easier later in the game. Really though, there is no way to know who is going to be NK unless there are blue roles left, which there aren't this game. | ||
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No way does scum kill me tonight, lol. | ||
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On June 08 2015 09:08 milo109 wrote: IF ticktock is scum. Which I'm not certain about, though the votes on him look pretty good. Why DO you think I could be scum? Honestly atm, I only understand Fidei's reasons for voting me. I guess I understand GG's reasons too, I just found them to be shit. | ||
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United States6051 Posts
Yea I'll get on that. Will need some time to read what I missed what at work. Initial reactions... Most of the votes looked like sheep who correctly read GG as town. Fidei is the only person who voted me who clearly had his own reasons. As such I'll be focusing on his posts first. After I finish my dinner and get settled in for the night. Lurking while I eat. | ||
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United States6051 Posts
On June 08 2015 09:22 milo109 wrote: Damdred then VE then maybe you then maybe Onegu then maybe Scott then maybe Shendel Yea... uh not really what I asked for... | ||
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United States6051 Posts
First off, I have a hard time believing mafia would NK someone for scumreading them. It would cause that persons reads to be that much more powerful since Town can now look at them knowing they come from a fellow town. Basically exactly what Fidei is doing here. Second, your ignoring the fact that it is a Scum TEAM, not just one/two scum right now. So the only way that someone would be targeted for their reads is if they managed to call out the correct scumteam. Even then it's a stretch because of the same reasons as before. Anyways you are correct that Ritoky was very distrusting of me D1 and really didn't like my reads. His N1 reads also do have me as clearly the only person he really suspected, though he was not 100% on me. So yes, I think it is safe to assume that ritoky would have been pushing me one again D2 if he were alive. Here is the problem though. Just because ritoky is confirmed town, it doesn't make his reads correct. You can read his thoughts and know they were coming from a town perspective, but that doesn't make him infallible. He might be right, and if I were an outsider here I would 100% be looking into that Tictock dude. However, since I know that I am town this game I can only take ritoky's reads with a grain of salt Later on you mention that I've criticized your posts. If you are talking about this On June 04 2015 19:03 Tictock wrote: This is a pretty useless post to be honest. I'm far more interested in what his change of style makes you think about him... I explained when you asked me why I called it useless... I found your post useless because the question was so open ended. It looked very passive and more like an effort to look active without actually doing anything. Only other time I've critisized your posting was here On June 05 2015 23:10 Tictock wrote: Looks like not much has happened since i left thread anyways. Just see GG chanting my name and Fidei looking like he mighta gotten lost in WIFOM over there. I stand by both those points, actually. In fact I think the post I'm responding to here is a lot of WIFOM. Your assuming ritoky was killed for his reads and your assuming his reads were correct. In fact I think you posted a much better explanation as to why ritoky was the NK Ritoky seemed like he was a really strong player I'd figure that a strong, well townread player is much more frightening to a mafia team, than a player with correct reads. After all, reads can change... | ||
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United States6051 Posts
Fidei spends a lot of time going into WIFOM starting here. Least that's all I can make out of it. 5+ posts talking about why this team makes sense, these people are confirmed, correcting earlier posts... etc is rather hard to follow. I'm not sure there can actually be that many conclusions based on a D1 mislynch... He does the same thing in his other big post I quoted i my response to it. Lots of WIFOM and mostly just pushing ritoky's thinking, not his own. He even starts saying that he's been told that this sort of anylysis is too likely to lead to WIFOM to be useful. I'm tempted to say this could be scum pretending to be a new townie getting suck in bad thinking, however Fidei does make a few posts that suggest he's town to me. There is this post which is really just a bunch of questions. However I notice that Fidei has noted the pages of note related to his questions, which suggests to me that he is putting in decent work and reading to support his questions. Then there was this post On June 04 2015 19:40 Fidei86 wrote: @Ticktock The issue I have is that, since this is my first game, I have no prior experience on which "tells" or types of behaviour are suspicious and which aren't. People earlier on in the thread seemed to just move past the change, but I think on any measure it has been pretty drastic. My read is that ritoky wanted to put himself out there straight away at the start and draw lots of attention to himself, on the basis that everyone would assume that the mafia wouldn't be so stupid so as to put themselves front and centre of the thread in a very memorable fashion. At best, I think it's quite a weak town play, because it created a lot of distraction at the start, which plays into mafia flying under the radar. As to the change, it could be because he realised that if he kept going, people might want to vote him off anyway for being annoying / cluttering the thread (I think several people mentioned that they would 'policy' vote him), and that he can now transition into sounding like a good town, but having had all the suspicion sucked out of his play right at the start. For me, that is very suspicious. I have read and liked a lot of the stuff he has posted subsequently, and has left me not knowing what to think, hence why I asked the question. Answers to 'difficult' questions can often be quite telling, and at worst all I've done is waste a little bit of forum space. Which was the first time I felt like Fidei was really sharing his thinking process. It sounds like pretty good town thinking to me. I'd bet that Fidei is just a newbie based on his posting. I could see him being Mafia and just using that as a cover though as well... Fidei was the hammer vote on Kick which doesn't look so good... Ugh he's still pretty null to me I guess. Maybe a slight scum lean given his D1 vote... | ||
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United States6051 Posts
On June 08 2015 10:41 Shendelzare wrote: I'm looking at the votes. I am seeing a problem with NHM. NHM - scumreads Chocolate and Tictock, and is willing to lynch the former. I ask a bit too late to get people to vote Chocolate at the end of day. She says she'd have voted him but she was the solo voter. I pushed chocolate like crazy, but I don't think she pushed him much at all honestly. Then... SHE VOTES WITH CHOCOLATE ON TICTOCK. Am I the only one that sees something wrong with this? Dam shen, all sorts of good catches from you today... Something felt off to me about Nydus' votes EoD there, I just haven't had the chance to look at her closely enough... I did say before that I thought we prob have at least one lurker scum and was thinking it was between Fidei, Choco, and Nydus... With that odd vote switch from Nydus, my last post/read on Fidei, and the fact that Choco has been pretty scummy this whole game.. could that be the scumteam? I'm likely way jumping the gun here, but an Iso on Nydus was def in my plans for tonight... I think it just got bumped to the top of my list. | ||
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United States6051 Posts
On June 08 2015 11:19 Chocolate wrote: I am going to post a decent amount tomorrow via phone because I have a very long car ride. Next day I will probably be pretty active Am I having deja-vu? Pretty sure we've heard that one before... Hope you keep the promise this time. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
Starts off scumming Kickstart and ritoky ! Moved on to townread Milo. A fair few moot posts that dont say much. Then there was this statement which I found interesting Oh, really quick thing, since no one asked and I'm about to leave for dinner, the way I play is I try to give as much content as I can, and I try to leave out fence reads unless I haven't been keeping up with the posts and have nothing to really talk about. If I'm paying a lot of attention to the game, you'll see me giving town reads and scum reads only. Also, if I'm slightly leaning town on someone, I'll call them a town read (and same for scum) even if it's only slight so don't be too offended if I call you mafia and don't feel too safe if you're mafia and I call you town. Adds GG to scum list. Also weakly townreads VE and starts leaning town on ritoky. There was this post too which was called out by a few people earlier, it def sticks out as odd but I suppose there was a lot of focus elsewhere and Nydus felt he was being ignored. Still given that there wasn't much to pay attention to in his filter it still sounds odd... On June 04 2015 14:14 NydusHerMain wrote: am I invisible? Leaves his vote on GG D1, claims to have forgotten/misread/something deadline. N1 gives out the first real set of reads in this post. -Read on GG flips (flops?) and is suddenlt town to Nydus. No real reasons given, just kus their reads matchup -Scums Choco, mostly for not trying to save Kick after his claim. Might have a decent point here (or I like it kus Choco still seems scummy to me) -Scums Onegu & Damdred for "reasons" - Scums Me, for my reaction to EoD1 -VE and Milo are only townreads here This post is interesting... On June 05 2015 23:23 NydusHerMain wrote: FYI for anyone trying to read me based on my EoD, I wasn't aware of the EoD (sorry I'll be more careful next time) but had I been able to choose someone to vote on before the jailkeeper claim and it had to be on chocolate on kickstart, it would've been on kickstart so read that how you will. Getting kind of boring reading "outlier votes can go either way." Admitting he would have voted Kick if he hadn't messed up the timing of EoD... seems like something scum would avoid doing. This is another odd post, but is more scum leaning... On June 06 2015 07:36 NydusHerMain wrote: I'm back for like 1 minute and I have to go back to work. While I'm gone, are we supposed to try to talk about why the nk landed on the person? Why is Nydus suggesting that people talk about this while he is gone? Another good post... not sure if this is alignment indicative though... prob more a town thing to say On June 07 2015 07:47 NydusHerMain wrote: Also before I go back to work, what stops scum from like bussing each other for town cred in a game with no blues? Happens tons in video mafia... Posts this fairly long decent post pushing Choco as scum. Mentions a scum read on Onegu, but not why. Questions my town read of him, and makes a little fun @ the Onegu rule. Here is the last post of note, On June 08 2015 05:57 NydusHerMain wrote: Templar is town. Chocolate is a much better vote by 10000 times but I'm going to vote on TickTock just incase -_-. You guys are dumb for voting on templar just because you think he might be salty town? If you don't kill him maybe he won't be as salty. He isn't even as cancerous as damdred is saying. I think damdred is just trying to justify voting on templar after townreading him. He's even covering his tracks with "omg templar still feels like town" BS. ##Vote: Ticktock Sticks to GG being town, REALLY wants to kill Choco, but votes me (even though Choco is on me too). Also throws out Damdred being scummy still. Actually that's not as bad as Shen made me think earlier. I read this post at work and found it unsettleing, but I guess it was just kus of the vote on me. It actually makes sense to me, that Nydus who says GG is town would go ahead and throw her vote on the only other wagon of note (also happens to be a scum read of hers) even though her real scum read is Choco. @Shen Was there something i missed about this vote? I don't think it looks so bad. So, overall I find Nydus to be pretty null to me, however I want to quote this post one more time... Oh, really quick thing, since no one asked and I'm about to leave for dinner, the way I play is I try to give as much content as I can, and I try to leave out fence reads unless I haven't been keeping up with the posts and have nothing to really talk about. If I'm paying a lot of attention to the game, you'll see me giving town reads and scum reads only. Also, if I'm slightly leaning town on someone, I'll call them a town read (and same for scum) even if it's only slight so don't be too offended if I call you mafia and don't feel too safe if you're mafia and I call you town. Has anyone found the bolded statements to be true? I sure wouldn't say so. I'm not sure, but Nydus could very well be scum here. | ||
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Idk, given how this game has gone I'm tempted to think we either have a scum team that is mostly lurking and letting town fight amongst town + Show Spoiler + which is why I suggested we start looking at lurkers more seriously I was also trying to figure out why I didn't like the tone of Fidei's posts (the WIFOM stuff and the large series of posts changing his thinking. I randomly figured it out while going through Nydus' filter. He looks a lot like one of the newbie scum in NSM X. That guy spent a lot of the early game asking basic noob questions & looking like he didn't know what he was doing and then spent lots of posts "lost in thought" discussing things others told him were best left along (role hunting/suggesting). @ Scott Is it just me of does Fidei's play look pretty similar to BF's last game? Not sure it makes him scum, I just found the similarity unsettling once I noticed it. | ||
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I'll give a more updated reads list then, right now I'd still be willing to lynch Choco tomorrow but I should prob give another look at his D2 posts, though I don't recall anything standing out before. Maybe I need to reread scott too, I've never played a game without him getting lynched D1. I don't really know how to read the guy well, but I have gotten decent townvibes from his posts. ..Truth be told I should prob reread everyone who is still alive just in case... Ugh I'll do that in Day phase... I should have another day off coming up before D3 will be over. | ||
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On June 08 2015 16:15 Fidei86 wrote: I'll admit that I'm pretty heavily tunnelled on TT and Scott, but did anyone else feel like their last set of interactions sound like a guy talking to his sock puppet? TT makes a big post about why I'm null/newbie town, then Scott says I'm Mafia, then TT agrees with him, all the while they're directing questions only at each other, or mostly at each other. If your main reason for thinking I'm Mafia is because of the EOD1 lynch vote, then surely that only makes sense if Chocolate is town. I honestly can't see why I, as a Mafia player, especially a new Mafia player, would come off one town wagon onto another town wagon, when I already had a perfectly acceptable policy lynch vote already. obviously my KS vote was disastrous, and I was the first to admit that. I've shown far more remorse than Damdred has for leading two town lynches. So, I dedicated one whole post to respond to your criticisms of me.+ Show Spoiler + In it I tried to explain why I felt you were possibly being blinded by making too many assumptions. Your EoD vote was one thing I mentioned, not the main thing. I also made sure to point out what posts you had made that have me leaning slightly town for you. I spent another whole post in response to the point that Shen pointed out about Nydus' vote D2 landing on me which meant Nydus sided with Choco, his main scum read. I didn't quote every post, but I assure you I went through everything in that filter. Yet you focus in on the one post where I ask scott a question. You want to know why I asked that question? I was also trying to figure out why I didn't like the tone of Fidei's posts (the WIFOM stuff and the large series of posts changing his thinking. I randomly figured it out while going through Nydus' filter. He looks a lot like one of the newbie scum in NSM X. That guy spent a lot of the early game asking basic noob questions & looking like he didn't know what he was doing and then spent lots of posts "lost in thought" discussing things others told him were best left along (role hunting/suggesting). I tried to be clear what I was thinking. Scott was scum the game I'm referring to, I've even given the exact game if people would like to know what I'm talking about, I'll do you one better and link it for ya. I felt he might have a better perspective since the player I'm referring to was on Scotts team that game. It wasn't me going "scott, he looks pretty scummy like this guy was scum huh?" though since your seeing me in red I get why you think that, it WAS me going "hey scott, am I crazy or do these 2 things look alike?" So, yea I think you are probably too tunneled on me. I'm not angry with you for it, I honestly get it really well. I'll explain in detail but I'm leaving those thoughts in spoilers, kus I don't want to fill up the thread with my thoughts from a different game. Thoughts from last game: + Show Spoiler + So I just thought I'd share why I earned the nickname "Tunneltoc" last game, and also why scott has brought up me and tunnels a lot. Last game we had a Town player by the name of plotspot. It was his 2nd game here I believe and his newness showed. He hardly posted or contributed D1 but spent hours working on spreadsheets detailing everyones time of posting and style of post. In addition he set up a numerical system for looking at how people interacted. The effort was real, but the idea fell flat. The time investment to do all that charting proved far too great and it never helped plots find mafia. As it turned out plots was actually the town RB that game. Guess how many scum he blocked... 0. In fact he managed to convince himself the best person to block N1 was actually the mafia NK, then N3 AFTER he had claimed cop plots blocked our Cop, also a NK. His other 2 blocks were on town, but was never able to give more than a few words as to why he thought blocking them was a good idea. Between all those terrible blocks, and the wasted effort D1 (he gave up on the charts after D1, and didn't even use the charts to explain why he used his N1 action like he did), plus the fact that this particular game had a funky setup. I became convinced that plots claim as RB was fake. I spent the next 3-4 phases (that's close to a week) 100% convinced that plots was scum faking a claim. It took plots being the NK on the last night of the game before I finally accepted I was wrong. Even now I think I had great reasons to think plots was scum that game and I was only further driven down that tunnel since nobody could explain to my why his blocks made any sense, or matched up with his playstyle. I had a whole butt load of reasons to think what I did, and after awhile nobody even cared to talk me down anymore. So, yea. Tunnels are bad, I prob would have gotten myself lynched over that tunnel if I hadn't been masons that game and was able to use my partner flipping to prove myself town. This is why I've been doing my best this game to stay out of getting tunneled. I came close to tunneling Damdred N1, but he gave me reasoning and thinking back so I decided to back off and cool my thinking down. My question to scott was similar. I wasn't sure I trusted my own thinking, and so asked someone I'm fairly certain is town for their opinion instead of barreling down some weird meta game association stuff. Fidei I think you are one of the few people who voted me that actually did their own thinking. Hence why I'm even bothering to respond to you about that thinking. Just please don't fall into the same trap that GG did and not forget to look at the WHOLE game. There are 3 scum left, if you are sure I'm one of them then there are still 2 others that need to be found. | ||
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On June 08 2015 16:29 Onegu wrote: We are lynching Damdred tomorrow BTW. You all will sheep me. Sorry but I won't. I might end up voting with you though if I find enough good reasons to when I look through his filter. Honestly though it might be wasted effort. Unless Damdred is mafia I'd guess that he is high up on the scum's "To Kill" list. | ||
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I'm just wondering, you listed 3 players who broke your rule. Damdred Shen Nydus Why is all your focus on Damdred? | ||
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Humm, decent point. I thought Damdred looked pretty strong D1, but I suppose he did slack off D2... and he led the lynch on Kick. Yea, you are probably right. Actually I'm being rather hypocritical trying to guess NK's while telling you not to read into them too much, huh? I'll just go back to reading then... | ||
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On June 08 2015 17:51 Tictock wrote: @Fidei Humm, decent point. I thought Damdred looked pretty strongly reasoned & able to lead town D1, but I suppose he did slack off D2... and he led the lynch on Kick. Yea, you are probably right. Actually I'm being rather hypocritical trying to guess NK's while telling you not to read into them too much, huh? I'll just go back to reading then... | ||
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My honest gut read on him based on what I recall. He's town. I didn't see anything he did today suggest scum to me and he was one of the strongest pushers for Choco D1. He might get OMGUS a little too much but he did a good job on his case on GG. He responded to GG and kept pushing since GG's responses were lacking. I would be interested to hear where VE sits on this game now though. @VE Care to chime in on that when you are around? Got slightly sidetracked about GG not being a bad lynch, didn't seem too important on proofreading so I'll leave it spoilered. + Show Spoiler + Honestly I don't think it was a bad call for us to have lynched GG. It sucks he was town, but honestly given how he was playing I doubt he would have been an asset in solving this game. I mean claiming he has 99% solved the game and listing 5 players as scum is a pretty poor thing to say. Maybe he will be laughing at us all post-game, but personally I'd bet he pinged out 1... maybe 2 scum at best. I kinda get why you compare VE and Damdred though especially off of the play going on D1. It might even seem weird that I read VE so strongly Town without much evidence, yet am suspect of Damdred. To me Damdred's push on Kick looked odd due to it's timing, and also some of the language he used to push it. It wasn't that Damdred made a push & eventual wagon that had (I suppose still has...) me thinking he might be scum here it was how he did it. VE has been consistent with his reads and pushes throughout the Day phases. Any changes in thinking were pretty clearly explained as well. I'll also remind you that Damdred's play was much different D2 than D1. I recall you scumming ritoky D1 for a shift in his play, what do you make of the shift in Damdred's play D1 to D2? | ||
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I was actually overstating the shift I had thought I saw in Damdred's play. I has felt he took on a much more lurky/backseat role D2 but I think I mainly thought this since a lot of his posts D2 were short and Damdred wasn't pushing his own thinking as much, but still was to an extent. Damdred's scum reads were really all over the place though. Just to get it out of the way, I want to remind everyone of not only the case I made against Damdred N1 (which was mostly me looking at EoD) but also of his reply. Looking back, it wasn't a very strong case and Damdred's reply to it was solid. Shortly after that Damdred posted this which gives this rather interesting read on Nydus. NydusHerMain is scum I believe. Reading through his filter he gives little to no actual thoughts to the thread overall, he is a bit sideline for me hes never directly involved in any confrontation. He states people are scummy (ie., he says ritoky is scummy) but never really does anything with it, he throws the thought into the thread and just sort of morphs back into the aether to post again another day. He asks at one point if he is invisible, yes, yes he is probably one of the most invisible players in the game. He pushes very little and stays under the radar his read post that he posted during the night was pretty bad to me, his scum reads weren't fleshed out and lacked any depth and also the scum team he propposd just didn't make sense with us triple bussing each other when we had two town up for lynch? It just feels fake to me. After those reads Damdred seems to go back to the style of play he was doing D1 but at a reduced capacity imo. It could be that he is taking a more defensive stance as I was pushing him N1, and scott & onegu also start scum reading Damdred. After VE makes his case on GG Damdred sheeps it (stays on this sheep all day, though he later gives his own reasoning why it's a good lynch) On June 07 2015 02:56 Damdred wrote: Damdred sheeps VE cause reasons I'm not sure why Damdred suddenly dislikes Shen, I didn't check super thoroughly maybe this was before Shen was caught up... On June 07 2015 22:22 Damdred wrote: How about we lynch sls slot or nydus, literally nydus still has no reads (well has some just that chocolate wagon all town rest of game scum). Kinda meh even about lynching the Sl slot though He says he's pretty sure Nydus is scum over me, gets kinda pissed off at scott, and moved to Nydus and Onegu as his top scum. He gives out this, his player pool he thinks could be scum. On June 07 2015 22:55 Damdred wrote: And I'm not trying to be disrespectful to shen by saying Sl slot. Like I don't actually think shen is the commonest player by far but the Scum,team I feel like is in Oneg(highly unlikely now) Shen Fi GG Chocolate Nylus Those are the commonest players to me atm. Shen is still in a weird place due to Sl. However I think shen has a fair chance to be town because of effort and looking at past games so I'd probably remove him. To also answer a previous question oneg tries harder as suck than town but that doesn't mean he lurks less as Scum. It seems contradictory but it's just sorta how he does it. And I really don't want to lynch oneg today so,it's in between 4 people. Even Fi I'd be ok with not lynching, chocolate has been even less here than I have it feels like, Nylus hasn't tried anything today and is just trying to fit in. GG is weird and not actually looking at the,game anymore. Damdred does some pushing on GG and ends up deciding that GG is a perfectly fine lynch since GG stopped trying to re-evaluate the game and was giving very poor logic. EoD Damdred seems to shift back and forth between Choco and GG. These quotes show his thinking moving between the two. On June 08 2015 00:12 Damdred wrote: Ehhh I kinda want to lynch nydas or chocolate today. And you are just bad or scum oneg. Anyway Gg attitude makes me hesitate here no survival really going on bah. On June 08 2015 00:59 Damdred wrote: Yeah I really don't care if we lynch Gg and he's town he is a cancer to the thread. I really doubt he is mafia but I won't cry if he dies. He says he reevaluated but you haven't. You have funneled on tick and have barely interacted with him. His activity push on you actually looks good. Plus his willingness to look at people again and again looks good. He could be Scum I suppose having an amazing game foe him,but he isn't the lynch today. So let's talk about something else whoever is here. Shen tell me why you hate chocolate at eod so,much. On June 08 2015 03:14 Damdred wrote: Honestly this is the first time someone has said this so far this game. I disagree obviously I'm a bit aware of,my meta so it's not as strong. But when I bus I take a much more assertive tone and don't jump all over the place. However I still don't know exactly why I'm Scum to people. This weird generic/middle of,the road complaint. Which I personally don't thunk is right considering I have given out multiple reads when people were using this. Also IDK why someone said 've isn't saying anything...when he is. I would lynch chocolate or Gg today. Also I'm not sure shen, I need another night to look at him unless we kill me today obviously. On June 08 2015 05:09 Damdred wrote: I Hobestly want to lynch chocolate for trying to skirt the rules. That's really crappy On June 08 2015 06:08 Damdred wrote: Yeah actually Gg is being that bad, has a cancerous attitude that makes it generally unpleasant to talk to that isn't really helpful to the game so idc if he's town or Scum. However 've is pretty sure he's Scum so I trust him. I don't have an issue with Damdred keeping his vote on GG, I think his reasons for doing so (well besides sheeping VE for "reasons") were good. It does strike me as odd that Damdred never really pushed Chocolate though, even when he was scumming him most of the Day. Overall Damdreds reads D2 seemed to be pretty all over the place. That is what strikes me between his D1 and D2 play. He seems to not be as sure of himself now and while I see him push Nydus a lot early on in the day I never quite understood why he drops that pressure. Something feels off about his read progressions D2. I'm thinking that it could be scum!Damdred trying to see where town is willing to lynch into and testing the waters with the early day reads and pushes, then later joining the pack as they gather around one or two people. This also adds up with my concerns about his playstyle I had in my N1 case on Damdred. It is also possible this is town!Damdred having a hard time with this game, and having lost some confidence with his D1 lynch going so sour. | ||
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I'll leave you guys with my current reads since I'm not sure if I'll be back before EoN. At this point null is probably more like scum leaning, I'm fairly confident of my town reads. Also order means nothing, I'm just going down the player list. Town Onegu VisceraEyes Shendelzare (I haven't mentioned, her play today has me fairly swayed she is town) milo109 (his posting has been weak, but it's hard to see him being scum off that EoD1) scott31337 Null NydusHerMain Fidei86 Damdred Scum Chocolate | ||
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Nydus, Fidei, Choco If Damdred is scum, then it is safe to say he would be bussing his partners. So if Damdred is scum then the team is Nydus, Choco, Damdred I propose we lynch either Nydus or Choco tomorrow. | ||
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What an evil scumteam to have killed off a replacement after one day phase (basically just enough time for her to get caught-up and get into the game). Anyways, I prob wont be making many big posts tonight kus I have other stuff going on but there was a few things I wanted to respond to. On June 09 2015 07:43 Fidei86 wrote: I also don't know whether to read anything into the fact that after both mis-lynches, TT has come out and said "well, I guess they were just bad town". I've never been mafia, so I don't know what that's like, but as town mislynching feels like the worst shit in the world. This is only true of my reaction to GG flipping town. I said Kick should have claimed sooner since that would have allowed Town to lynch someone else D1 and forced scum to NK Kick. Waiting to claim so close to EoD is fairly poor play in my opinion but it doesn't make Kick bad town or even a bad player, just was a bad call in that situation. I have the day off tomorrow so while I wont be very active tonight you can expect more from me tomorrow. I'm not sure if it's the best lynch but I'm going to do this for now... I'll explain why next post. ##Vote: Chocolate | ||
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Oddly, it relates to this question... On June 09 2015 09:45 scott31337 wrote: If you got rid of the "Unvote" thing, do you still think milo is town? Honest Answer: I'd prob be scumming the hell out of him. I'm not a fan of his posts, I think they are weak and show no intention of pushing on scum. I'm not familiar with Video Mafia so it's possible this is a style he's developed playing that, but I have a hard time seeing town motivations in most of his posts. However, I can't ignore his actions EoD1. I've thought about it time and time again and the most likely scenario is that Milo is simply town, who panicked at seeing Kick claim Jailer and not understanding how plurality works here simply unvotes. Here is my thinking: I imagine 3 possible worlds here. 1) Milo is Scum and Choco is Town. If this were a reality then there is no way that Milo unvotes off a highly likely blue lynch. Vote switching might earn him a bit of towncred here, but it also draws tons of attention to himself. I don't find this very likely. 2) Milo is Scum and Choco is Scum. In this reality, Milo's unvote makes some sense, but it feels like a stretch with the threat of a modkill. Here Milo would be unvoting for towncred, showing he doesn't want to lynch a blue, but unwilling to hammer his partner. I find this scenario quite possible, if a bit strange. You might wonder, "well wouldn't Milo buss Choco here for the double towncred?" and while that would be an option it does seem like weak scum play to hammer your partner D1. 3) Milo is Town (note if Milo is town it doesn't matter what alignment Choco is, since Milo doesn't know himself) This is the reality I find most likely. Here Milo sees Kicks blue claim and in a panic unvotes but isn't sure who he wants to vote especially if he felt Choco was town. It is also very likely that Milo doesn't understand the voting rules here and doesn't realize that by unvoting he is liable to be Modkilled or that simply unvoting isn't enough here, he would have to vote on Choco to save Kick. I definitely find that 3rd reality to be the most likely one that we find ourselves in. 1 is kinda stupid scum play, and thus 2 is the most likely option if Milo is scum. So, I find that Milo's actions EoD1 only make sense from a scum perspective IF Choco is ALSO scum. This makes Choco an even better lynch today IMO. | ||
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We are 6-3 today. We really cant afford any more mislynchs as it would bring us to 4-3 LyLo tomorrow if we don't lynch scum today. Because of this I don't think Milo should even be an option to be lynched today. While his posts have left a lot to be desired his unvote D1 is a very weird move if he were scum this game. It's definitely not impossible, but since the only way I can make sense of it is if Choco is also scum I find Choco is the much better lynch. It also helps that Choco had been largely scumread since D1 and keeps failing to live up to promises. I'm nowhere near done looking at this game. I think I'll check a few filters tomorrow when I have ample time and post more thoughts based on them. I'll make sure to give Shen a fair re-read given her flipping town, and will also reread Milo just in case I'm missing anything on him. | ||
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Your still that sure of your rule? Shen broke it as town... | ||
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And now i know why. There has been like one page of filter since EoD1... this is D3 now right? Most of that is excuses and some other stuff. Here is what I picked out as interesting... His first effort at doing something after disappearing after D1. On June 08 2015 00:25 Chocolate wrote: Though I think GGT may just be trying to exonerate himself if I get lynched today In fact I feel that if I die and flip town a milo/fid/GGT team could be quite possible Which flips pretty quick... On June 08 2015 03:44 Chocolate wrote: Actually after thinking about it I don't think milo is scum, you guys are right in that whatever he did at the end of the day is pretty indicative of alignment (though do recall he didn't actually change his vote) Hopefully I have some time in the next few hours to make a vote, if not sorry Then he takes this stand... On June 08 2015 05:09 Chocolate wrote: I'm voting TT Don't wanna vote GGT because I think he's town. GGT makes a compelling case (I know this is a shitty reason to vote someone but I had no time today) and since I think he's town I'm going TT Really sorry for not being more productive, when I get back home I promise I'll kick the posting up a notch Really? Choco thinks GG has the most compelling case D2? Wasn't he scumming GG? What is Choco thinking himself though? On June 09 2015 01:41 Chocolate wrote: I've been reading the filters of both VE and TT from d1. I'm on a phone so it would be hell on earth for me to do a shitton of quoting so here it goes: Both call each other town pretty early on Both push votes on townies (though of course I am not confirmed townie) As soon as I park a very early vote on TT, VE scum reads me I'm pretty sure all of TTs d1 list (GG, me, milo, SL) is town and gives him flexibility to bandwagon as he pleases Additionally, although his posts regarding me are all cautious (need to read more, you are all three probably town) he puts me second on his list I'll read n1 and d2 soon too but again I'm on my phone so it takes me a while to structure a post adequately Still not sure who third scum is, at this point I'm finding damdred unlikely There he goes back on VE suddenly... He also threw out this weak read on Shen On June 08 2015 05:18 Chocolate wrote: Actually I don't think Shen is mafia for this reason If I were scum I'd never be as inactive as SL was the first day, even if I were about to get replaced Shen being very active today tells me more that he is trying to do town more of a service than dispel the read people were getting on sl He was also pushed moderately day1 before and after I brought it up which I don't have a good reason to feel suspicious but strikes me as fishy (though I do recognize that I was part of that crowd) Sorry it's not much of a case... but that's all there was in his filter. The flip in his reads looks pretty odd to me. It weakens my idea of Milo and Choco being scum partners that Choco would even suggest Milo as scum, but he takes back to read fairly fast so I'm not sure. He also flips really hard on GG while giving no reasons. I also dislike how VE just suddenly pops back up in Choco's scum reads. I find it especially interesting because it looks like he does this AFTER he starts scumming me, then gives some weak association to backup why. Honestly none of it looks good. | ||
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I'm starting to like the idea of a scumteam of Choco, Milo, and Fidei atm... Milo being scum makes a lot more sense if Choco is scum. I could also see Fidei being on the team since he has been supporting Choco a fair bit for very little reason. | ||
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On June 09 2015 20:46 Fidei86 wrote: @TT I agree with the general sentiment that you've played a good game up to this point. If you're mafia and you win, I think you will deserve it for sure. However, your last post makes me think things are starting to come apart at the seams a little bit, because a milo/chocolate team literally makes no sense to me. The situation at the end of EOD1 was that it was 5-4 to KS. Milo, at the last moment, after the role claim, took his vote off KS leaving it 4-4. If milo was scum with Chocolate, there is literally no reason for him to come off the KS wagon. He knew that I was around on the forums, and clearly Ritoky was because he posted just after EOD. So there was a very real risk that the vote would flip to Chocolate. Why would you bus a fellow mafia on day 1 right at the last moment to protect a blue, when you could very easily just AFK through it. That makes no sense to me whatsoever. The fact that you're contorting things to this degree just to try and get some sort of wagon going on milo with Damdred is extremely suspicious to me, ESPECIALLY when we have Onegu who is a confirmed and unabashed troll as a much juicier target, if you're truly a flailing towny. Honestly, the move also doesn't make sense even if milo is scum and Chocolate is town, because milo still would have no incentive to come off the blue for a different towny. This is a little less certain though, because I concede it is possible milo was doing some sort of next level play. But I think the strong likelihood is that he is town. My conclusions on Milo was that he was prob Town given the EoD stuff... Had Milo unvoted AND THEN voted Choco I would agree with you that a Choco Milo team makes no sense. I was thinking that the fact that Milo was unwilling to vote Choco suggested he was trying to protect him. It's a bit WIFOM I agree, I was just trying to make sense of Milo's actions EoD1 especially if they were scum modivated Also I was adding you into that team not because you support Milo, but because you've supported Choco so much in the l past without having great reasons too... Milo has also been doing this. I also have not been unsure of your alingment so you just kinda fell in there. I'll admit I'm only putting you in that team kus it kinda clicked when I thought about it, I've actually been ok with your play recently. So @ Fidei We might well be back in OMGUS spitting on each other here. Besides myself who are thinking is scum? I actually liked your points about Onegu. My issues with voting him early were that he would really just be a coinflip given his play, and there seemed to be better targets each day. Now I'm not sure if he's switching up his meta from what people have suggested, or if he's just useless town. I saw him pick it up on D2, not sure why that stopped... | ||
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On June 10 2015 03:53 Chocolate wrote: I went back to look at the first day of reads All of TT's scum reads were either quickly withdrawn (KS, ritoky, damdred) confirmed town(SL, GG, arguably milo) and me Now, it's not conclusive evidence at all, but I think this is pretty damning. TT initially was only leveling accusations at people who were town (other than me, damdred, and arguably milo, who we are not sure about). All of our flips so far have been town so this is true of lots of people. However, ALL BUT THREE of these 7 people are confirmed town. Why are you stuck back in D1 man? There has been tons of content since then... Besides D1 is not the most reliable day to look at if you think my reads have been all over the place, everyone's reads D1 change very quickly. | ||
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On June 10 2015 04:37 milo109 wrote: You do realize that if we lynch Chocolate and he flips town, tommorrow is hell on earth? You do realize, pointing that out while not doing anything helpful to find scum... is very unhelpful. I feel like your trying to scare us away from a Choco lynch... | ||
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very unhelpful and probably scum motivated... | ||
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I'm not sure anymore tbh. The comparison looked good when I made it, but sleeping on it for a few days... eh it's possible but a stretch. Overall I'm liking Fidei more. I think he's been making some good points and arguments. Then there's stuff like this On June 10 2015 02:11 Fidei86 wrote: Can people start posting where their votes are going to fall at the moment? I think it's probably best to get those now, so we can discuss them, since we seem pretty fractured. ##VOTE: Ticktock Which as far as I can tell is because of my suggesting a possibility of a Choco, Milo, Fidei scumteam. OMGUS kus I suggested him as scum, and then moreso because he likes Choco and Milo. @ Fidei Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here as to why you are voting me. Honestly though, even if both Choco and Milo flip red I'm not 100% on Fidei. I just felt like he fit best into that team idea. I definitely still find Choco the best lynch today. | ||
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On June 10 2015 05:02 Chocolate wrote: I haven't played a lot of mafia but one thing I do know is that scum doesn't like to call out other scum aside from bussing, etc. I'm not sure I buy this, but I get the idea. Scum will tend to ignore each other since they have a QT talk to each other and see where they are at and thus don't need to interact in-thread as much. I can also see why you see VE and myself as scum based on this. I'm wondering if you see the same thing happening elsewhere? You can keep focused on me and VE if you like, I just want to know if you find anyone else scummy... There is 3 mafia left after all. | ||
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On June 10 2015 05:07 milo109 wrote: I've given my world a thousand times. VE/Damdred + 1. The plus one is the hardest one to find, since there are some many players lurking and playing mildly scummy. Anyway. Let's be productive then. Can Nydus/Ticktock/Scott consider the world where Templar, Choolate and I are all town? Who would be the mafia team then? It's the world I predict we're going to live in tommorrow, and I think it will help. Not sure why you threw GGTemplar in there, but ok I'll bite. If you and Choco (possibly just Choco since I have a hard time thinking you are scum if he isn't) were to flip town right now or w/e... I would probably be looking hard at Nydus and Damdred. I don't think they could be a team though since Damdred did a decent mini-case on Nydus earlier. I mean I could see Damdred bussing a teammate, but his read on Nydus came out N1 when there was no pressure on him before so I can't imagine that's what was happening here. Fidei would be exactly where he is in my reads still. I'd also be relooking at Scott and Onegu. ----------- I'm prob about to head out to run some errands, so will be lurking a bit more then running those. Will do my thing of reading filters and such when I get back later on tonight. Despite Choco scumming me for it, I feel pretty confident in my VE townread. I'll look over his filter later on if I have time though just to be sure I didn't miss anything | ||
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On June 10 2015 05:14 Chocolate wrote: I find fidei and milo unlikely to be mafia I think you and VE are mafia I'm unsure about the other people, and to be honest I don't really want to make a judgment just yet, mostly because I don't want people to feel threatened by me and not make the VE/TT vote, which I think we need Are you more certain that either VE or myself are scum? Who would you vote for if neither of us had votes on us yet? On June 10 2015 05:15 Chocolate wrote: I literally did last page twice. First example: I attack TT, VE attacks me Second example: GGT attacks VE, TT attacks GGT My attack on GG was in no way a defense of VE. GG forced D2 to be a day of Him vs Me since he kept pushing his insta-scumread on me. Naturally I pushed back on GG. I actually see VE lashing out at both you and GG as more of a direct reaction to the two of you scumreading him, than anything to do with me. | ||
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Sorry I don't think I have time to rehash my read on VE at the moment, tbh it was largely carried off what I saw in D1 and just haven't seen anything off him since that makes me think he could be scum. However between him being absent lately, and those posts by you and scott I think his will be the first filter I look at when i get back later. Also Fidei, I'm more interested in the reasons why people are voting for me or anyone else than simply who they are voting for atm. Since Milo started me thinking about a world where Choco is town (and I might be a little tunneled on him tbh), I'd have to say that in such a world a scumteam with Damdred and VE being scum here would make sense I'm tempted to suggest Scott would fit into a team like that as well, but I'm not sure that works. Eh this whole paragraph is likely just WIFOM thinking kus it's kinda just a floating thought atm. Sorry I need to head out and get stuff done, I'll try and explain my thinking better after I'm back. | ||
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On June 10 2015 07:54 Fidei86 wrote: I vote laundry list. Seconded! would you rather me come back in here and show you why I'm town, including a laundry list of horrible things to say to the remaining players? Yep, lets light those fires under towns ass. + Show Spoiler + I hear town farts burn Green @ Fidei I recall Damdred saying he was still highly suspect of Choco N1, however he stopped mentioning Choco for the most part after it became clear D2 was about GG. | ||
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On June 10 2015 08:14 Fidei86 wrote: Another reason why I think Chocolate is probably town is that literally nobody in the thread has spoken up for him at all, except me and milo. Nobody has said anything positive about him. That is even after the Day 1, where the people voting on KS were me, him, ritoky, Damdred and milo. Ritoky is confirmed town, and most people have milo confirmed town too. On the assumption that you believe I'm town, that leaves only Damdred voting on KS (other than Choco himself), and I'm pretty sure Damdred was on the Chocolate "wagon" before it even started. This analysis rings especially true because the vote was so close, one more mafia vote on KS would have swung it. Obviously this whole thing rests on the premise that milo isn't scum. We've all been over several times why we generally think milo is town. Therefore I think the only reasonable conclusion is that either Damdred and Chocolate are both mafia, or neither of them are. Has anyone noticed Damdred deflecting off Chocolate at all? I'm starting to really see Choco and Damdred as a possible team here actually. D2 both Choco and Damdred were much less active and backed off a lot in how much they were pushing their own thoughts in the game. Choco kinda just left the game for a bit and Damdred sheeped VE then later comes up with his own reasons to push on GG. Damdred was also pretty ready to push Choco is seemed like both D1 and N1 until he was interacting with ritoky EoD1. I'm starting to wonder if the discussion between scum!Dam and rit promted scum!Dam to move off his bus on Choco and push into Kick. This might also explain why rit was the N1 NK since rit and Dam seem to know each others playstyles and if Dam is scum here he might have pushed for rit to be killed before he caught on... Sorry that's pretty WIFOM until I can confirm how the discussion between Dam and rit when down, and when the notion of Dam bussing his scummates got brought up this game. Everything seems pretty darned plausible to me though... God, I'm not even sure what to make of today, everything is so up in the air... Choco still seems to be at the center of it all though, or at least close to it. I'm starting to think my vote may just stay on him... | ||
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United States6051 Posts
On June 10 2015 09:05 Fidei86 wrote: Okay, so literally nobody has been defending Chocolate at all (except milo and I). I really think that says a lot, because if he were mafia I would have expected someone to at least lightly deflect off him, or to vote to save him. And now this post has me back to thinking that a Choco, Milo, Fidei team is possible again... Starting to think I'm tunneled on Choco and don't even know it really... @ Damdred So where are you right now, who are you thinking is most likely scum? Is scott right that VE's play is starting to look like his scum play? Did you disagree with my look at Milo's EoD vote? Did I miss some possibilities or something? | ||
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Not sure that breaks my tinfoil hat theory about Damdred killing Rit N1 but it was mostly just the ramblings of my brain while I did other stuff. Finally about to dive into filters, but right now I'm tempted to vote whoever suggested we start re-evaluate everything today just for the amount of headache I've gotten because of it. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On June 03 2015 07:49 VisceraEyes wrote: Hi guys! I've read most of the game so far and I don't like most of the reasons people are tossing around for calling others mafia. I don't think it makes the people giving them mafia though, so I'm not gonna name any names. Suffice to say: before you post that something makes someone else mafia, consider if they'd do it as town before you get your tunnel on. This has been a public service announcement by VisceraEyes. So far the person that sticks out the most to me is Chocolate. Aside from a vote, this is his only post in the game. Does "weirdly cheery" make ticktock mafia? Without context, this post just looks like he's trying to be seen in the thread, which is consistent with mafia trying to hide in plain sight. Why does a townie Chocolate even make this post? Further, in his vote post he wants tick to "1v1 me mate"....which if the lynch is boiled down to Chocolate/ticktock then I'm lynching Chocolate 100 times out of 100 based on what's in the thread right now....if he's town and wants ticktock to interact with him, then why does he disappear? Next couple of posts could be pocket attempts on Nydus, also is pushing Nydus to vote Choco. + Show Spoiler + On June 03 2015 07:56 VisceraEyes wrote: Nydus can we be town together this game? That would be swell. If yes, vote for Chocolate. If no, vote for me so I can vote for you. On June 03 2015 08:01 VisceraEyes wrote: I actually got the opposite read off Nydus' comment about ritoky: I find it very unlikely that Nydus comes in and says something as controversial as "I would lynch ritoky regardless of his alignment" as mafia. I find it far more likely that he says somethign like that as town. Next few posts are mostly chatty posts, offering some advice, countering some of the validity on the push on milo. Nothing very indicative of anything. He gets pretty excited when Milo agrees with him, it's a bit weird almost like he's trying to make Milo feel good for agreeing. This post looks like he is being reasonable with Choco and just wants him to live up to his promises... + Show Spoiler + On June 03 2015 08:50 VisceraEyes wrote: @Chocolate Yeah I don't expect anyone to be on all the time. My point has very little to do with your lack of activity and everything to do with the way you framed your absence. But whatever, it's a minor thing and something I'm willing to overlook for the time being. You say you're caught up now, but that your only actual suspicion is Kickstart from what I can see - and it's for posting with too much authority? And scott, for agreeing with Kickstart? Is this accurate? VE swaps his vote to Milo when Milo makes a post that he doesn't like VE ... + Show Spoiler + Responds to me about SL and explains to Milo that he has suspected him of being scum since he "slipped" and said Choco was afk, but it was Milo targeting VE that made him want to vote Milo... This post was interesting to me. On June 03 2015 09:50 VisceraEyes wrote: Whatever it's fine. Expand on your VE read if you please - I've been just exploding town all over this thread. You say there's been a lack of reads out of me. I say that doesn't make me mafia. I say that I've contributed at least one mafia read, and that's the person I want to lynch, and now I'm also willing to lynch you. I'd say that I've contributed more than at least 50% of the game so far. I also say that I don't give many reads as both town AND mafia, but I give FEWER as town. What do you say to that? I doubt scum would invite someone to keep reading them as scum, but at the same time this whole post screams Egomaniac... Eh it seems pretty likely that Town would post something like this. Eventually VE backs off of Milo since he realizes he had gotten the timeline of events a little off. VE returns to Choco and continues his push on him, this time largely because he doesn't get where Choco is coming from on his reasons to thing VE is scum. He goes back to trying to rally people to join his vote. We get our first real look at VE's reads near the end of D1 in a list style post. + Show Spoiler + On June 04 2015 23:14 VisceraEyes wrote: Here's where I'm sitting currently: Town: ritoky scott Nydus Kickstart Fidei Ticktock Won't Lynch Today / I WANNA say town, but I just can't yet for some reason: Damdred Onegu People I'd probably lynch in spite of them probably being spewed town: sicklucker People I'm looking at filters right now to decide if I think they are the lynch today instead of Chocolate: GGTemplar People I'd lynch remorselessly: Chocolate milo People I'll worry about later: Everyone else. That is another reason I townread VE early on, our reads lined up pretty well nearing EoD. VE keeps on Choco though and keeps pushing him for trying to make VE look like a bully. VE starts to think GG might be scum and puts a vote on him, but gets swayed by GG's EoD posts to move back to Choco. He also disagrees to rit's ideas that GG or Choco are either both scum or both town. I think it was Fidei or Scott who questioned this post... On June 05 2015 03:49 VisceraEyes wrote: This game is so weird, the people I DON'T expect to have reads on me do and the people I DO expect to have reads on me don't. Though VE's next post at least listed a couple of the people he was talking about. On June 05 2015 03:52 VisceraEyes wrote: Like I expected GGTemplar to try and read me FIRST, because I'd say that of everyone here, he probably knows my play the best - I've mentored him in Video mafia and we've played together on All-Stars. But it's like he's been ignoring my posts...only interacting with me when I DEMAND his attention. It's really odd and plays into my mafia read on him. It's kinda the opposite with Nydus, I didn't really expect Nydus to try and read me first considering we barely play together anymore and we haven't had many actual "post-game" interactions so-to-speak. But he read me relatively quickly (though he DID state reservation to reading me) and that kinda plays into my townread of him. VE agrees that Milo's EoD unvote makes him town then respones to some posts by GG and Scott, I liked his points here... but I'm not sure they are relevant right now. + Show Spoiler + On June 05 2015 21:14 VisceraEyes wrote: Using formatting as a means of reading people is akin to throwing fucking rice in the air and using THAT to divine alignments. If that's what you're using to gauge others' alignments, then I really don't think you should be calling people's play bad and dumb, etc. Weighs in on the Chezinu Rule... it only applies to Chezinu. Then pushes GG for sticking to his thinking based on this rule. This builds to VE posting his case on GG. + Show Spoiler + On June 06 2015 17:05 VisceraEyes wrote: GGTemplar spent most of the game giving hard townreads based on very early posts, and he spent a lot of time justifying those reads. I concede that the most blatant example of this, his reads on Nydus and Ticktock shown here, was at the behest of another player. However, if you'll kindly turn your packets to page 2 of his filter, you'll see a similar behavior throughout, with no prompting. I've explained here my meta reasoning for thinking he's mafia based on behavior - I would have expected him to try and get a read on me early if he's town. He explained numerous times that he didn't find the interaction between Chocolate and myself to be alignment indicative. Yet today, he's trying to use THAT against me. He also does small nuanced things like trying to appeal to authority and appeal to emotions. Further, his push on Ticktock reads to me as an attempt to remain consistent with his reads yesterday. It's convenient that he had a (very justified *winkwink*) either/or read on Kickstart/Ticktock, and somehow by the grace of God (but conveniently not by Templar's hand) Kickstart the jailer got lynched yesterday, and today EVEN WHILE OMGUSING ME, he maintains that Ticktock is the likeliest shot at mafia. He's not reevaluating the game at all, he's trying to remain consistent while pushing a specific agenda. Everyone should vote for GGTemplar today. He is the most likely mafia at this point in the game, I would say even more so than Chocolate. The only thing that makes me doubt it is the fact that he wasn't voting EoD yesterday, but as far as I know he thought he was or something. On June 06 2015 17:15 VisceraEyes wrote: tl;dr GGTemplar Meta - Temp would read me early. "Couldn't", in spite of ritoky thinking I was pretty obviously town. Behavior - Has over-justified his early reads imo, and has attempted to remain consistent with his previous reads rather than reevaluate the game. OMGUS on me reeks of desperation. Doubts - He wasn't voting EoD, risking modkill. My Bias/Hypocricy - I still think Chocolate is mafia, and Chocolate was the other wagon yesterday. He is also clearly still on Choco even if he's decided to lynch GG. + Show Spoiler + On June 06 2015 17:34 VisceraEyes wrote: I think this is the most damning thing about Chocolate. He couldn't justify putting his vote on anyone when it mattered at the end of the day, he just plopped it on me until an alternative wagon appeared and then "voted to save his life". He stated that he was changing his read of me apparently, but was still voting for me because he didn't want to or couldn't call anyone else mafia. Too afraid he'd piss someone off that might vote for him I guess. At this point in his filter it seems like VE is blowing up at GG a lot. He is also really pushing on GG's townread of Milo and makes this large post. + Show Spoiler + On June 06 2015 19:17 VisceraEyes wrote: The Milo Misunderstanding From VisceraEyes Perspective This is the faulty reasoning. I thought that milo had "slipped" that he knew Choco was not in a position where he could respond to my accusations (which NydusHerMain noticed). This is based on this interaction: So obviously me attesting that milo posted that Choco "couldn't" defend himself before Choco explained himself is factually incorrect. However, here: is the end result of that suspicion. In the end, I COULD have been right about milo slipping, but ultimately it's more likely that he's just town and thought Chocolate had been gone long enough to warrant thinking I might be trying to accuse someone not around from his perspective. My current read on milo has been detailed in this post. On June 06 2015 19:25 VisceraEyes wrote: EBWOP: To go further, ritoky also mentioned (and I agree) that it doesn't make sense for Milo to move his vote from a mafia perspective REGARDLESS of Chocolate's alignment, town OR mafia. If Chocolate is town why risk getting modkilled by doing anything at all? And if Chocolate is mafia WITH him the lynch could even end up on his partner Chocolate! A risky venture for virtually no gain in either case. Not completely outside the realm of possibility, but unlikely enough for ritoky to give him an Inno Child read. On June 06 2015 19:35 VisceraEyes wrote: Plus, if I'm wrong and he's mafia, I get to say "I told you so D1" and push for a ban on him for playing against his win condition as mafia, inspiring all manner of drama in the Ban List Thread. Win/Win I'm going to ignore VE's post that is literally just quoting a bunch of GG's posts. Though VE does keep interacting with GG even if he is mostly just tunneled on him at this point. These 3 posts look pretty decent though, they aren't just more stuff about GG which has been a lot of VE's D2 posts. + Show Spoiler + On June 08 2015 00:02 VisceraEyes wrote: The bolded is a lie - with Chocolate and Templar I've outlined several things I don't like about their play, and I've presented all of that to the thread. To say that I just find one thing and tunnel it to oblivion is at best proof that you aren't even reading my filter and at worst a gross misrepresentation of my play. The italicized is your only actual reason for scumreading me, and I'll tell you for free that you're never going to find mafia based on whether you "like" how they play or not. I don't particularly like how you're playing, but you don't see me calling you mafia for it now do you? <3 On June 08 2015 01:10 VisceraEyes wrote: Like what is the point of this? Let's suppose you're town and you ARE right for a moment - who cares post-game? It doesn't matter how right you were during the game, all you did was cry about how stupid everyone is and give up, so no one gives a shit whether you're right or not. And they won't next game either if you're town this game, because your reasoning doesn't make sense this game and you're not convincing. If you're town you need to take a step back and come at this game from another angle. Stop getting mad about it and try and figure it out - I realize that you think you have it figured out now, but I'm not mafia and you're putting all your money on it. Which is actually hilarious because up until halfway through this phase, you staunchly asserted that you had NO read on me and that NOTHING I've done, with Chocolate or otherwise, is alignment indicative. And you wonder why people are reading you mafia. Grow up Templar. Or hang because you're mafia. Those are your options. On June 08 2015 01:17 VisceraEyes wrote: Damdred just look at what Chocolate says about why he is voting for me EoD1. After he comes to this "realization" that he's just OMGUSing me and that I may be town or whatever, he KEEPS voting for me because "he doesn't have any other mafia reads" and when he DOES finally vote for Kickstart (because he's the only other realistic wagon) he EVEN SAYS that it's just to save his life. He NEVER had any mafia reads during D1, and I think that he AS mafia just didn't want to piss anyone off. And that brings us up to D3. VE has thus far been somewhat inactive today, and I'm not a big fan of him rolling over at this point in the game. Still though I think I have to keep my townread on him after looking at his filter. If he is scum this game he is doing a great job covering it up kus I'm not seeing it anywhere in his filter. So I'm def not lynching VE today. | ||
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Lol, you calling what I posted bad scum play? Or my idea/theory about scum!Damdred's play bad? | ||
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On June 10 2015 11:40 Onegu wrote: Somi still don't have my laptop back it went into the shop today. Will read filters tonight and give reads Holding you to that Onegu. This game is a bit weird and def not easy, we need every towny we got to help weigh in. On that note, I'm still pretty sure VE is town, but I'll be pretty angry with him if he doesn't do anything else today... Gunna do some reading in Shen's filter just to see what her thinking was and then I think Scott is the last filter I still need to read. Starting to loose some steam myself so will do more summary and not as many quotes, maybe... | ||
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Yea almost started doing what i have been doing for filters and try to go through the train of thought of the person. Thats stupid though since we know Shen is town so focusing on her reads. Shen starts off scumreading Choco, Milo, Myself and Onegu. She stops pushing Onegu so hard as scum, but still doesn't like him since he hasn't done much of value. She also agrees to the logic around Milo'd actions EoD meaning he is very unlikely to be mafia. Drops me as a scumread based on my case on GG. Thus ends up focused on Choco. Shen made a few good posts as to why Choco is likely scum this game. Also she keeps up the pressure on Onegu since he's only giving his rule as reasoning for his scumreads. + Show Spoiler + On June 07 2015 13:49 Shendelzare wrote: I don't know how answering questions can be considered appeasement. This sounds like Chocolate is trying to frame KS in a no-win situation. If he answers questions, it's appeasement. If he doesn't answer questions, he's evasive. If he gives a middle of the road answer, he's scum for giving a middle of the road answer. Are you fucking kidding me? No idea how the fuck those two responses to Milo are evasion. It makes perfect sense - I'm doing the same thing to Templar right now actually - to ask who else other than themselves are scum or asking that question if they only have one scumread they've been focusing on a lot of the game. There are three mafia in this game. That is a perfectly valid thing to do. If KS was evading questions, that's one thing but that point wasn't demonstrated in that case. Verbal diarrhea he says the last point on KS. That's tone at best and to me that's a cop out for him not wanting to really evalute KS before wanting to lynch him. That is a mafia based case coming out of Chocolate. That is just fucking horrible. When all he had to do was just vote him to survive, he gives THAT explanation? He frames him in a no-win spot in his case and the rest of his points are a steaming pile of shit. On June 07 2015 13:59 Shendelzare wrote: Here's another really terrible post by Chocolate. #3 - yes you are scummy if all you do is defend. It's an issue of not whether you defend. It's an issue of you not to advance town agenda if all you do is defend. #4 Switching votes a lot. I think the problem here is not switching votes but reasoning behind them. I've already pointed out WHY the KS vote/case was terrible, but the rest - well I don't know about the Scott switch but the Tic and VE vote reasoning does look pertty shallow. Onegu's play is shit all around, I understand that, but his reasoning for KS like I said before is a steaming pile of shit. This post stands out to me, but I'm not really sure what's catching my eye about it. Prob just kus I'm a little suspect of Damdred still, but his couple of vote analysis posts have me leaning town on him. + Show Spoiler + On June 07 2015 14:47 Shendelzare wrote: I looked at the database link ritoky showed me. Damdred has a decent track record as scum. Particularly a good survivor the later the game goes. Scott mentioned some "why am I alive" rule. I wonder why it does not seem to apply to him. This was a good summary post Shen made as to why she thinks Choco is a good lynch. On June 08 2015 01:20 Shendelzare wrote: Alright, so these are massive quotes, so instead I'm going to just link you to the posts I made. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/486008-holy-guardians-chapter-1?page=61#1213 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/486008-holy-guardians-chapter-1?page=61#1216 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/486008-holy-guardians-chapter-1?page=61#1220 Basically his case on KS is just awful, the scumread on KS is horribly contrived (second post) and I illustrated how it was so. The way he frames his case on KS is basically that no matter how he answers, he's mafia. I think in English it's called a loaded question or a loaded answer but you'll know what I mean when you read the second post I made. The other real problem I have is that both needed to vote each other for survival yet Choco contends that the latter was scummy for doing so himself or he said he was bandwagoning on him. His responses to KS (third post) were mediocre at best. But those three posts should detail the contentions I have. I should also point out that Shen kept pushing on Milo despite hid EoD move. She didn't seem to buy that it made him confirmed town. If she were still alive I'd prob give her towncred for doing that when nobody else was really willing to, even if it came up again today. Shen made a few other nice posts and pointed out some odd things a few other players had made but overall I think her last post of the game makes it pretty clear where her head was at. On June 09 2015 03:06 Shendelzare wrote: I swear every post I read from you at this point screams mafia and it reminds me of that horrible case you had on KS day one. I would have hammered you if I was in play then because of the way you are framing your points. What is making either Tic/VE scum reads for their reads on each other? Like I said pushing votes on townies alone does not make some scum it's how they do it. Also the point about the D1 list is questionable when you don't consider how he prioritized or supported his reads, and having four scum reads means he's wrong on at least one so how he changes those reads should be more important at this stage. I had four scum reads when I gave my first list post so I knew I was wrong somewhere and I knew I had to re-evaluate. He is doing that FYI and so are a few others. I also find it interesting you find Damdred unlikely since at least one other player cites him for being cautious and you're calling Tic cautious so considering at least half this field is scum reading you (and if you haven't figured out already you are my top target) you might want to start pointing out some differences in where you're coming from once you're on a computer otherwise you're going to be held accountable for double standards in your reads. From all this I think it's pretty clear Shen would still be pushing for Choco as today's lynch which I still fully agree with, despite all the re-reading and re-evaluating I've done today. Unless someone can bring up a solid case on anyone else I'm leaving my vote on Choco. I'm kinda over reading filters at this point since I keep coming back to the same place and it's a decent bit of work. I think Scott is the only one I'll have skipped and I'm like 80% certain he is town so I'm fine with that right now. | ||
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Pretty sure votes are something like this right now Chocolate (3) - Scott, Tictock, VisceraEyes Tictock(1) - Fidei VisceraEyes(1) - Chocolate Damdred (1) - Onegu Not Voting: NydusHerMain, milo109, Damdred So this could still end up going lots of ways. | ||
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Your links are broken... What are you thinking? | ||
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On June 11 2015 02:06 Onegu wrote: I've already said it. His quick flip read on me. Plus town damdred doesn't just stop playing. He has stopped playing. Plus my gut reads are strong. Gut read says damdred scum. He was to quick to claim himself town for lynching our blue day 1 also Your read isn't bad, but it isn't especially good either... but you doing this... On June 11 2015 02:07 Onegu wrote: I'll be voting damdred everyday until one of us is dead btw At first I'm tempted to say this sounds like scum behavior to try and push a mislynch, but then GG did sorta the same thing just with more words and he was town.. Onegu if you are wrong here and we listen to you, we'll almost have to lynch you tomorrow. If you are town this would mean your almost asking us to throw the game... Are you THAT sure? | ||
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I'm pretty sure Choco will flip red, and that would mean that Milo becomes a great D4 lynch imo. Still not 100% on who rounds out that team though... If I'm wrong about Choco... and I really hope I'm not... you guys are free to lynch me D4 (assuming I survive the night). If I do survive the night I'll prob be trying to decide if I should listen to Onegu or lynch him tomorrow... | ||
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Now I'm totally lost this game. If it turns out Scott is scum and I just failed to look through his filter yesterday I'm going to kick myself so hard postgame. I've played with Scott in each of my games here thus far but this is the first game he wasn't lynched D1... and Damdred makes some good points... I'm not sure of my read on him anymore... I'm pretty sure Damdred is town, which makes me wonder about Onegu. He's done nothing all game but push Damdred and has generally been useless... I'm also pretty pissed at VE for the shit all he did D3, just rolled over and dipped out of the game. Did anyone who has played with VE see issues in my filter dive on him? I'm starting to rethink my read on him too given that move... Nydus looks pretty bad too, but better than Onegu and honestly a little better than Milo in terms of posting (but not by much). I'm fairly certain Fidei is town now as well, his reaction to EoD while a little overblown was pretty geniune. Though he is dead wrong, it is 100% part of Town's responsibility to keep themselves from being lynched, it's probably more important than finding scum tbh. Dammit, Town is making this game much harder than it should be. Like at this point it's pretty clear that every wagon has been on town and that scum have just been able to add fuel to the right fires without ever needing to make much of a move themselves... which means it's not going to be easy to figure this out... | ||
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Hopefully mafia kills me tonight, I'm fairly over this game right now... I'm not even sure who I'd suggest you guys look into if I do die, Onegu, VE, and Nydus are who I'm disliking most atm. I'd like to look into Scott a little more before I call him scum... I'll be around if anyone wants to chat. | ||
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Lol I'll take one of those, I hope that's the conciliatory prize when Town looses one of these games. You say VE didn't wig out, does him rolling over make sense for his Townplay? Like I'd honestly preffer if he had at least shared an opinion and called out people for being bad than just going "f this, I've done shit, vote choco". I'm also unsure why you'd want to sheep me after those last 2 posts >.< Like I'd be willing to sheep Damdred right now, but the last wagon he built killed our blue role (sorry Dam, I'm prob not gunna let that one go) I think it's a safe bet that tonight it's one of Damdred, Scott, or I to die. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + I know where GB is... and when he see's this post I want him to know I'm not happy that we've been devoid of flavor text so that he can play in other games... I don't care how tempting the dark arts are, I want more flavor! | ||
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Kinda why I was asking you your opinion, but now you've got the paranoid voice in my head telling me your trying to pocket me... and it's kinda working... | ||
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If he had done a little more with his reads before EoD I would be fine with him, but since he's just relentless pushin on Dam who I'm fairly certain is town I'm not sure... I'm also not sure that actually makes Onegu scum from what I'm understanding of his style... Ugh | ||
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On June 11 2015 16:13 scott31337 wrote: I did a test on VE, it wasn't much but it showed enough to unvote him. Choco (conftown now) wanted to vote him though. Humm GG also thought VE was potential scum as well, and so does Milo ... | ||
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On June 11 2015 16:21 Tictock wrote: Humm GG also thought VE was potential scum as well, and so does Milo ... No wait, this is terrible thinking... and is what happens when I'm tired and frustrated. Both GG and Choco thought VE was scum through associations based on me being scum. I'm prob just overreacting kus I thought VE would do more D3 than that shit he pulled... I dont like him for it, but I'm not convinced that makes him scum Onegu is probably a much better person to look into, Nydus as well but they are really at about the same level. Least Nydus has given reads a few times and changed them based on whats going on in game... | ||
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On June 04 2015 04:15 Onegu wrote: So here we go. In Thailand Milo is Chocolate powder. So that means Chocolate and Milo must be on the same team. Since chocolate is so tasty they must both be town. I missed this way back when, kinda a funny catch On June 04 2015 07:03 Onegu wrote: But you must have read a post to respond to a post... How does that work? And from then on I think, Onegu is thinking Damdred is Scum... On June 05 2015 04:58 Onegu wrote: Phone posting wont be here for deadline ##Vote Damdred Reasons Or maybe not... On June 06 2015 10:33 Onegu wrote: Chezniu rule is what is about to apply to me. And we are going to us it to get our lynch today on Shendelzare. Basicly it means I play so randomly that who wants push my lynch is scum. Chez rule is first to call him scum. Onegu rule is people continuing to push his lynch. ##Vote Shendelzare Milo would be a ok vote also. Willing to vote either. Humm that post is pretty bad since he's gone back on his weird townread on Milo and wants to vote Shen kus of his rule. I think I kinda liked Onegu since he linked me that Champion game of Chezinu which finally helped me understand where GG was coming from, and also made me get some of Onegu's playstyle... On June 06 2015 19:44 Onegu wrote: Damdred falls under the Onegu rule also. He goes from I cant read onegu well IDK need more time. To onegu looks really bad, he best lynch for no reason. GG S-word Damdred Scumteam^ Eep 2 confirmed towns in that scumteam... Then we get the longest post I expect to see from Onegu On June 07 2015 14:10 Onegu wrote: + Show Spoiler + Onegu is another one of those players I can't read well currently. Hes just another policy lynch until he does more things, he can not post much as either alignment but seems to care more as scum but also is more lurky as scum. Sooo just need more time with him. Damdred writes this in his big post. This is after I voted him for no reason. Like if you read my post it just says reasons. Like when ritoky asked me for a filter to read I wrote I rng'd damdred. How does he think I was pushing his lynch at all. Then the only reason he scum reads me is because I didnt push his lynch but voted him. He knows I do this shit all the time. Damdreds reason for scum reading me is complete BS. S word Dude says he read my previous games and somehow came to some conclusions about them that relates to this game and that I am scum this game. Nope not possible with the games he said he read. The onegu rule isnt arbitrary. Basicly I play bad and troll for day one. Then on day 2 see who wants to lynch me and why. If people want to policy lynch me then they are likely town. But if they are saying I am scummy for trolling for bad reasons then they are scum pushing a mislynch for shit reasons. People are trying to shit on the onegu rule, but the people doing so are the scummy ones so dont listen to them listen to me. I already told you I am the best player in this game. I wasnt lying when I said if I rolled scum that this game would already be over. The fact is if I am getting pushed for lynch in the first 3 days then guess what I am town with scum trying to mislynch me because they know the longer the game goes on the better my reads get. Like GoT mafia where scum couldnt get my mislynched and I won the game in lylo. Thanks HF for catching the rest of the team. And it's still mostly a bunch of bull besides his read about Damdred... which I'm still not sold on but man Onegu is On June 07 2015 14:42 Onegu wrote: Damdred is capable of making large cases as scum. Him leading the day one lynch is null for him. But yeah for day 2 I am only looking at how people interact with me. Ill read everything and file it away and when there are less players I will go more into other things. But for now I am confident in the Onegu rule. Like there is good and bad stuff throughout his filter, but his Damdred read actually did start a lot earlier than I thought so maybe the Onegu rule is deeper than I was lead to believe... | ||
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United States6051 Posts
If town is gunna pull out of this one you need to dig deep for us man Give me the best case you got on Damdred, or if that's just the case you've stated already; Give me the best townreads you have atm. | ||
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On June 11 2015 16:30 scott31337 wrote: Tell me more about this - I thought Onegu played this crap town game to be honest- We got triple lylo - and I hope you understand this. Who would you vote for or vigi if we could right now? (also in reply to your question right after) Right now? Like assuming we weren't going into LyLo and I had to pick right this moment... prob VE. Kus of what I stated before about not liking his D3. In reality... I'm super unsure and want to wait till we see who gets NK'd to dig a little deeper. Was only willing to do that quick and dirty filter dive on Onegu now kus I knew it would be quick and I'm pretty sure Onegu is alive tomorrow no matter what. | ||
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United States6051 Posts
On June 11 2015 17:07 scott31337 wrote: I looked how you colored green in the past (loaded your filter Tictock, view source, search for green - view-source:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/486008-holy-guardians-chapter-1?user=Tictock&view=all ) and that green Shen in your past post seems just completely out of the ordinary- just that seems so out of place compared to the rest of your posting. Brainstorming thoughts Lol brainstorm away, pretty sure it was just some random impulse to throw that in for emphasis against the Onegu Rule, but then I was too lazy to do it anywhere else. Honestly I'm not even sure I'm a fan of doing the colored stuff that much, I've thrown it in a few posts just to see if I like it or not. | ||
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On June 11 2015 18:12 Onegu wrote: First off my reads havent changed. Also I realized GG didnt violate the onegu a bit before we lynched him. And NHM did qualify so scum is at least those 2. 3rd scum. I need to think about I will filter dive tonight. I promise. Also I didnt think I would be the NK last game but I was because I R AWESOME. Ok will make effort after a dota game. So these 2 bolded lines here either make no sense or are completely unrelated to this game... I've never played with Onegu before so I have no idea what his meta is like, but I'd have to assume he'd at least be trying to make sense as Mafia here so that there was as little chance of him getting lynched. So in my mind this makes hime town this game. It is possibly scum just doesn't give a shit anymore this game, after all they just need to force one more mislynch and given how town has been going this game that is probably pretty easy... @ Damdred Care to expand on why you think those posts from VE make him town? I'm less angry with him now that he has at least shown up again, but I'm only seeing him defend himself atm which could be coming from either scum or town VE as far as I know. I'm 100% digging through Scotts filter later today if both me and him survive the night. His posts last night felt strange and that like conditional voting post thing was rather odd as well. Can't tell if he was just frustrated last night and possibly a little drunk, or if he was just uncomfortable & flailing since Damdred started to suspect him as scum and was trying to pocket me... | ||
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@VE Since it looks like your around, who do you think is scum out of our now depleted list of players? Also who are you most sure is town right now as well? | ||
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No offense (I know it's a thankless job) but Hosts have been dropping the ball a decent bit this game... | ||
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On June 12 2015 06:37 VisceraEyes wrote: A) The timing of this post is hilarious considering, and B) The rules don't say anything about anyone getting modkilled because the hosts didn't make the daypost in time. As far as I can tell this is accurate, there is the statement that this game follows standard TL Mafia rules, which upon review only specify the game being halted at EoD... not EoN. So I suppose I'll return to posting? Would kinda like a confirmation though... though since it's an hour late I have to assume no hosts are around. | ||
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I assume you were referring to this post? On June 12 2015 05:01 NydusHerMain wrote: I'm the easiest push at the moment since a lot of people have called me scummy and I agree I haven't been playing particular towny this game. Ticktock has had the opportunity to call me scum and to push hard on me and if he's mafia, a lot of people has said that he was town to the point where someone like Scott even said that he'd sheep ticktock' read. I'm literally a free ml right now so call me pocketed but he has no incentive to really feign trying to figure out my alignment. All he has to do is jump on the easy bandwagon of calling me scum. He's town for me today. Onegu is kind of a read in a similar vein. He has this insane tunnel on damdred and has had it since day 1. I wanted him dead for a good 2 days now I believe but thinking of it, there's a lynch nhm train going on and he's still going on damdred instead of me. What's his plan here? He already has me and damdred as part of his scum team. What's his incentive to keep pushing on damdred instead of taking the opportunity to bw on me and say "omg he's mafia onegu rule?" Scott I need to quote but it was somewhere along day 2 or 3 the way he was talking really felt like he was genuinely trying to figure out my alignment rather than just giving me a town or scum read randomly. I'd hunt for scum but I'm more concerned about my town reads because I think I'm a good town hunter. I pretty much mislynched chocolate and would've voted on ks before his claim if I didn't miss the eod so I don't trust my scum hunting capabilities this games. If you think I'm scummy for lurking, read my past tl mafia game. I got mled day 2 for not being as active as I should've but I was right on all of my town and had the entire mafia team as either null or leaning mafia by the end. I'm a little torn, but I overall don't mind Nydus' post here. The overall logic and reasoning here is actually pretty good, however the assumption is that Nydus is a mislynch here which obv is false if he is in fact Mafia. I'm not sure why Mafia would point to themselves and say "I'm a pretty easy lynch atm" so I'm included to think Nydus is in fact town after that. Also I had done a filter dive on Nydus last Day phase and didn't find anything that struck me as scummy. I'm def open to discussion about Nydus, but I'm actually trying to decide where I sit with Onegu first then look at Scott and Nydus again. | ||
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I apologize if I missed/ignored some of your posts, though some of what you quoted in that last big post was written while or after I was writing my post you are responding too. I overslept today and saw I only had like 45min to put out anymore thoughts in case I was NK'd. So I just quickly read/skimmed what had happened since I went to sleep and responded to that. These were the last few posts from you I had read and is why I said I felt you were mostly being defensive. On June 12 2015 03:35 VisceraEyes wrote: I didn't so much abandon my push on Chocolate as I widened my search, and I thought I nabbed GG. It's really not complicated - I was giving him a chance to come in and PROVE that he's town through action or posting or something, and GG was (from my perspective) claiming mafia with every post. So it was a thing where I became MORE certain about GG than Chocolate, so that's where my push went. You'll see though that as the day progressed and he did nothing, my scumread on Chocolate made its way back into my filter. Saying "I'm town" is not alignment indicative, I get that you don't like it or whatever, but I do it as town and mafia in equal portions. You have to look at my play, and my pushes, and my reasoning to determine my alignment. This game I think it should be pretty obvious, and that's why I say it. On June 12 2015 03:39 VisceraEyes wrote: Ritoky's reads also played into it, because he died. Like, I was suspicious of Chocolate and Ritoky made a note that if Chocolate is mafia then GGT is probably mafia with him. That's what made me start scrutinizing GGT in the first place, and ultimately scumread him based on our interactions. Look at how he goes from having NO read on me and chocolate to suddenly having a scumread on me after I scumread him for (what I perceive to be) good reasons. That CEMENTED my read of GGT - he started using things that had happened D1 to say I'm mafia when NOT EVEN HOURS BEFORE had said that he filtered me and nothing stood out as suspicious. He was fabricating reasoning to be suspicious of me, in spite of the fact that he was town, and that made me scumread him. It IS (generally speaking) all in my filter. And my filter isn't inconsiderable, all things considered. On June 12 2015 04:10 Damdred wrote: Ve looks towny in his last few posts hrm. This is a hard game. 2 Posts from VE that are mostly justifying his actions in the past days (which as I said I could see coming from VE as either alignment) and then Damdred saying he felt those posts made him think VE is town, which made little sense to me based on the posts I had read. It makes more sense now. Sorry if i was reading stuff out of context. I asked you both questions just to make sure I was clear on where you two were coming from here. Looking over the post you made I actually like a lot of the posts from you that I missed. So long as you don't abandon the game again I'll have no further issues with you. | ||
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and, WTH Fidei was the NK? Dammit I did not see that one coming... | ||
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I'm not sure Onegu is town, but I think I've come to the conclusion that he is a terrible lynch today. I'm not willing to end this game on a coinflip. So the question is then, does he have a solid read on Damdred? I'm tempted to say No, but having looked through his filter I can see his suspicions of Damdred started before he went off about his Onegu Rule, which just seemed to solidify his read. I think I'll stick with reading through Scotts filter, then maybe I'll recheck Damdred. I've been liking Damdred's bigger posts where he tries to go through some voting logic, and have him as town because of it... But I've been wrong most of this game so I think he deserves a revisit. I'm back to being pretty sure VE is town here. | ||
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I know you gave your thinking about Scott earlier, and I'm planning to read through his filter here soon to check stuff myself. However can you please put together a decent case or something so I can be sure I'm following your thinking? I'm really unsure of Scott based on my interactions with him last night... but that's not enough for me to lynch the guy today. | ||
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I'm not saying he has much reasons to vote you right now, but I have a suspicion he has better reasons than he lets on... + Show Spoiler + Well that, or he's just a crazy "old" coot... Who sometimes have a way of seeing things that others don't Overall Onegu comes off as just a random irrelevant poster, but he has his moments where he makes decent sense... Damdred writes this in his big post. This is after I voted him for no reason. Like if you read my post it just says reasons. Like when ritoky asked me for a filter to read I wrote I rng'd damdred. How does he think I was pushing his lynch at all. Then the only reason he scum reads me is because I didnt push his lynch but voted him. He knows I do this shit all the time. Damdreds reason for scum reading me is complete BS. Course then his "case" on you is pretty shit... On June 11 2015 02:06 Onegu wrote: I've already said it. His quick flip read on me. Plus town damdred doesn't just stop playing. He has stopped playing. Plus my gut reads are strong. Gut read says damdred scum. He was to quick to claim himself town for lynching our blue day 1 also I'm not buying Onegu's logic, but there is enough there to suggest that you are worth another look. Also in regards to your case on scott, does his posting more recently have you more sure he is scum? | ||
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United States6051 Posts
On June 11 2015 05:32 Damdred wrote: Like I really feel like ve and tick are town as well as with oneg. Its a feeling on oneg rather than actual context on tick and 've. Might be wrong but it's how I feel. Scott feels townish(?) With a hint of paranoia. The others are weird.... so so weird To this I actually read back through some of scotts past games and one thing I noticed is a completely different tone here. When he was town in his last game he sounded really jubilant and wasn't giving huge walls of texts at all everything was clear and concise and when he started to think he was wrong or might be he initially apologized to the people and then tried to work with them. Here hes not really like that, to me at points he sounds angry and hes much wordier than he was in his latest town game, and the posts look more like his scum games. He blends in pretty well I think without pushing a lot of the thread forward himself. Also I pointed it out in one of my posts earlier about how crappy acting he was towards me, its just a horribly angry attitude and is vastly different then his last town game as well. Also the most important thing about this vote and scott I think is that when he went to vote his first thought was Damdred is bussing rather than, my scum read damdred is onboard with this lynch what should this mean to me? Also he says hes going to vote Fideli during the night. But never mentions him ends up on chocolate last night, well he does mention him that he looks better. But after he said if i'm alive i'm going to be on fideli etc. he doesn't really mention him during the day or try to pressure him. He also has that weird onegu is town read that he has went towards and backed off of. I'm kinda convinced that scott is scum here. TLDR: First scum read is scott His tone is different from his last town game. Really angry sounding and confrontational Rather than working with people and trying to see how he is wrong Sometimes forgets reads or goes back on them at a moments notice when almost nothing has changed (oneg) Votes with his scum read but just says it must be a bus rather than looking at the alternatives Based on one post where you basically just say "Yep, Fidei is probably town" I played with Scott in both his last games, there is literally nothing to go on based on a meta... He died both games D1 and his scum game he lost internet access so was unable to even post for ~30 hours. I have a hard time believing you got that good of a tone read on him. Really angry sounding and confrontational Rather than working with people and trying to see how he is wrong Those points also applied pretty well when we were lynching GG, yet it turned out he was in fact town as well. How are you so sure they make Scott scum if it wasn't also true for GG? Sometimes forgets reads or goes back on them at a moments notice when almost nothing has changed (oneg) I could say the same of you. N1 you made this fairly impressive looking post that suggested you were highly considering Nydus and Choco as scum. However come day phase you never really bring up these reads and instead you do this... On June 07 2015 02:56 Damdred wrote: Damdred sheeps VE cause reasons And end up on the GG wagon... So, yea, I think there are good reasons to double check my town read on you if that's your best case on Scott. | ||
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On June 12 2015 08:52 Damdred wrote: Sweeping a town read isn't crummy try again. Palmar makes several excellent posts about this in other games like Linux mafia and a few others. And it's still one of the reasons I really town read 've. He totally believed what he was saying put in 10x the effort that he had to,and his case wasn't bad at all. It still isn't, it was wrong not,bad. So no problems in my eyes sleeping him. Also everyone who is town think about this, tt said during the night I was most likely town and now he's laying the ground work to vote me when he clearly should of had these problems then. Actually he's starting to play really strangely at this juncture(?). Anyway I think Scott is scum. Tt might be but I need more time to think,about it. Also if you are town and are thinking of voting me answer this what is the point of me only killing people that town read me. That's stupid. Ah ok, I see my confusion there. It is ok when YOU swap on a town read, but when I do it it's scummy. And all I ever said was that I wanted to rethink my position on you... Like I've done for practically everybody at this point! And why is it so important to you that the NK's were townreading you? Is that the only value they had to you? | ||
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@ Scott You seem to be oddly unphased by Damdred making a case on you and voting you. So far you've stated that you kinda just want to sheep me today, however you also posted this If Fidei dies Onegu/ Are you still thinking we should lynch Onegu today? What if I told you I'm finding that Damdred is absolutely town and that I've decided to sheep his case on you? Who would you like to lynch today? | ||
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United States6051 Posts
Man why were you even worried? I poured over your filter and you have been one towny mother*%&$#^#$ this game. I'm salty that you started a wagon that got Kick lynched, and something about your tone does suggest this "playing all sides" attitude to me at times. However I have to admit that you've generally had good reads, made great points, and while you seem to shine most after EoD your reads have all been consistent and I can actually see how they change by looking through your posts carefully. On June 12 2015 14:09 VisceraEyes wrote: Like everyone go look at Onegu's filter in Carnival Cruise. You'll notice that his filter size is about the same, but the content is WILDLY different. He actually gives reasons for his suspicions and references posts and explains what he's thinking. In this game it's just been a blind Damdred push all game long, mostly for no reason other than his "Onegu Rule" which doesn't even make any sense. I think he's probably mafia this game, and I think that's why Fidei died. Because he was suspicious of scott and Onegu. From what others have said I thought his lack of interest would suggest that he is town... Now that i think about that I'm pretty sure it was Scott who said that though. Honestly I've been kinda relying on other peoples reads on him, plus his occasional coherent posts to support my idea of him being town. At this point all I know for sure about Onegu is that he is a terrible lynch today because he is more or less a coinflip. I've spent a lot of time now convincing myself that Damdred and VE are town this game so for the moment I am going to sheep this scott wagon. I will do my own due-diligence just like i have been doing and go through scotts filter tomorrow. Damdred and VE... if you two are in fact both scum this game and I'm just walking right into another mislynch... I'll be very cross with you post game. ##Vote: Scott | ||
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In terms of posting I'd actually say I find them both to be pretty scummy. Neither really seems to care about the game state and just want to push their own reads/ideas. Kinda similar to GG actually... The only thing that makes Milo stand out there is his D1 unvote off of Kick. I've made a post D3 where I tried to see his logic doing that if he was scum, it didn't make much sense unless Choco was also scum... so no I have a really hard time seeing Milo as scum.... but i hate that it's only for the one reason. | ||
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I woke up to find that my basement is flooded with several inches of water & have been dealing with that all morning. Hopefully I can get the situation resolved today. I'm really sorry, but I also REALLY need to deal with this. I'll try and keep up with reading and should have time later on tonight to do the filter dive on Scott that I keep promising. The more I've thought about it the more I like VE's suggestion that Scott, Onegu, and Nydus are the scum team here. I'm very certain that VE and Damdred are town, I know I am town, and while Milo is an outlier he is probably just bad town. I implore everyone voting Damdred (at least one of you is town) to take a look at his filter and see for yourselves if you really think he could be Mafia this game. | ||
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On June 13 2015 06:20 scott31337 wrote: VE is the one I'm most in doubt of. But the other two I'm pretty confident of now - TT should be dead and he's not. After the three mislynches he went after me But if that's the case, there's a mafia on me and can last minute switch anyway and it's over.I've always had mixed emotions about yourself. Sure I went after you. Has nothing to do with me trying to follow Onegu's thinking about Damdred. Reading Damdred's filter and coming to my own conclusion that he is town. Also has nothing to do with how you claimed you want to sheep me after I made these two posts. Which since you now bring up that I was on multiple (2 btw) mislynches seems like an odd thing to want to do. Unless it was an attempt to pocket me. I has been reading Onegu as town most of this game as well as made a case on Damdred early on when he irked me after EoD. You prob figured I'd fall in line and lynch him next. Also this post, where you are almost conditionally voting based on the night kill... wth was that? You say we should dismiss those posts kus you were messing around while drinking... sounds to me more like your trying to cover up your drunken slips since you felt like you had this game won. I'm gunna have to find some of those fabled Town Rainbows in your filter for me to reconsider my vote. | ||
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Basement shit took most of my time today, plus I missed work kus i had to be around to let the plumber in. More shit from there... I ended up passing out early due to frustration and exhaustion. Trying to get out ~6 inches of standing water from your basement sucks, and there's still the bit were I have to sort through all my shit and pick out the things not completely ruined by this. End Rant I'm taking your bolded points to be the main arguments you are making here. On June 13 2015 12:38 scott31337 wrote: Look, It's day four, and I'm worried that town is going to lose. I must be a fucking magician. Do you think I would keep him or Damdred alive this long if I were mafia? ---- I WAS TOWNREAD BY ALMOST EVERYBODY UNTIL TODAY! I'm not impressed that you had already stated that by D4 you would be willing to lynch me. In fact I find this to be very poor town thinking in general. You don't give players X amount of time before you lynch them. You take the posts that that player has made and update your reads as the game develops, or you use their filter to see if you missed something or if things make more sense later. Saying "Welp, it's D4 and he ain't dead yet, time to kill off TT" is pure nonsense when we are in LyLo. The fact that you keep trying to push this logic as your "read on me" is both insulting and clearly scummy thinking. In regards to your two points here (I find them oddly interrelated) well I did some digging through our departed Townies reads (well the NK's at least) and noticed that they did all have something in common, and I think we can take a guess as to why Fidei may have been the last NK. Ritoky isn't easily townreading you. In fact he has you, Onegu, and Nydus as null reads. Sure I'm his main scumread (or at least he still heavily suspects me) there but if you clear out the rest of the confirmed towns from his list there, that just leaves Scott, Onegu, and Nydus. Interesting... On June 08 2015 22:52 Shendelzare wrote: I'm extremely busy at work. Once I get off work though, I'll look into Damdred/VE/NHM given the concerns I'm reading. I'm pretty sure Scott is okay but will probably give his filter a runthrough to make sure I'm not missing anything. Milo is making me a little nervous as a lurker, NHM for that and the reads day two. Shen only had one full cycle to spend on this game and she was mostly looking into chocolate. She did say this about you late into her last Night. Ok it's not much, but its another person who says them want to look into you a little deeper. AND Shen was proving herself to be quite capable at catching little details. WIFOM spoilered! Read with Caution! + Show Spoiler + I've actually wondered a fair bit about why Shen would have been killed off. I'm fairly convinced it was because she was an unknown element and did a lot of work to overturn the reputation that SL left the slot in. Compared to Myself (who was almost lynched D2) and Damdred (who had gotten a fair bit of flack about his style as well as the KS lynch) and VE who up to that point was on the completely wrong track, I think Shen was clearly a greater threat to the scumteam and a much more difficult Mislynch as she was gaining support. Then there was Fidei... On June 12 2015 05:56 Fidei86 wrote: I just don't think it's possible for anyone to read Onegu as town. I also don't understand the Scott read. Scott hasn't led anything. He hasn't stuck his neck out once. He also reacted super badly to me calling him scum the first time. He was actually very rude ("your heart is going faster now, isn't it?") - I found that actually a little intimidating, and I don't know why a townie would say it. Of course, NHM could just be misguided town. But I hate the read. Oh thats right, Fidei didn't like Scott did he? He also clearly had some issues with Onegu as well... He also was clearly working on a case against Scott On June 12 2015 06:31 Fidei86 wrote: If I die before I can post my "this is why Scott is Mafia" bible post, I'm going to be frustrated. This tube ride has lasted forever. Thank god for the wifi at stations though. Made this shit bearable. On June 12 2015 06:41 Fidei86 wrote: Okay first thing then look back at his day 1 and see how he gets on the chocolate wagon. He gave no reasons. In fact, he said several times that he thought both wagons were town. He did exactly the same on the GGT wagon - saying several times he thought GGT was town, but keeping his vote there anyway. There's tons more but given the impending NK I just want to get it out there. Besides the fact that Fidei was one of the most townread people comeing into today this seems like a great reason Scott and the team would have wanted Fidei gone. I'd point out that GG was also scumming Scott, but honestly I dont see much reason to trust his reads. Still just another person who wasn't townreading Scott. So the idea that you have only been townread this game is clearly false. Also by looking through the NK's I can find statements by each of them saying they think you are worth a closer look. Then of course there was Fidei who was clearly working on a case against Scott. I'd wager than Scum really wanted to kill off either Damdred, VE or Myself N3 but they settled with Fidei since he was a hard person to push for Mislynch today and he clearly was onto something with Scott. And with that I'm off to read your filter Scott, though tbh I think I'd be perfectly happy just sheeping Damdred at this point. Both because I'm willing to stake the game on Damdred being town at this point and you've given me plenty of reasons to think you are scum today besides his Case on you. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
Scott starts off this game with a bit of filler, some weak townreads, posting old games (of other people), and some easy advice posts ("There is a voting thread" type stuff). Pretty NAI stuff. This is scotts first post with any real opinions. He is mostly scumming Fidei in this post and is suspicions of Damdred and VE. + Show Spoiler + On June 04 2015 04:11 scott31337 wrote: I'm back now - I do not like this post. It really does not say much and have any conclusions - although he shares the same ideas with VE as I do - I'm going to keep an eye on him for now. Damdred never did reply to my meta question and has magic meta townreads, but we wait until Day 2 unless something comes up. VE is noting Chocolate is trying to get a easy ML on me, I like where he's going with this - and I don't think it's a VE pocket, although I've seen him play like that either way. From how Milo defended himself I believe he is town. I still like Kickstart although the thread consensus seems to be the opposite. I'll reread a few pages of the thread I was pretty blitzed last night when I did so. Yet in his very next post his top scum are GG and Choco... + Show Spoiler + On June 04 2015 04:27 scott31337 wrote: GGTemplar and Chocolate would be at the top of my scum list. I could sheep Kickstart's case on GG, It brings up fairly good points. I was awaiting a response before I voted, and we got another whole day as well. Skipping past more filler posts... Then spends a lot of time/effort explaining Chezinu rule, some questions to KS, moves Choco to possible town, so his scum is Fidei and GG, Votes GG. This post struck me as a bit odd, Scott is just being nitpicky but it's reading almost like a weak attempt to solidify his vote on GG. + Show Spoiler + On June 04 2015 15:25 scott31337 wrote: I can understand a Nydus town read, but SL? Do you see SL as townie? I see a null at the moment and unsure how to pull a townie read from SL's filter. He cannot even get Milo's or Fidei86's name spelled right. Fail on one maybe, but two? You have townreads and haven't read enough to get their name right? I can understand a "Palmar/Palmer" thing, you know what I mean? Just seems weird to me. I've explained how I feel on Kickstart (another misname) already Does any of this strike you as suspicious or am I over-reading things? Like he's throwing a shit list out and going poof? Then there is the quote that Scott says I townread him for + Show Spoiler + On June 04 2015 15:36 scott31337 wrote: Who would you be willing to lynch beyond GG, Kickstart? Here is another odd post... I had stated my conerns that Scott was so far looking pretty similar to his scum game, this post is a weird way to reply to that. It's more confrontational and inflamitory (like he is stirring up trouble) than trying to help show me he is town. + Show Spoiler + On June 04 2015 15:54 scott31337 wrote: What do you think so far Tictock? Has your opinion changed on me? You are being scumread by a few people as well - ![[image loading]](http://images.sodahead.com/polls/003133139/5747562267_21410032_answer_1_xlarge.png) Here is another post that on the surface looks good (like the question I mentioned before) but if you look closely he is just mimicking ritoky's own opinion back at him. It's actually brilliant because it deflects the suspicions ritoky is stating while refocusing him on GG. + Show Spoiler + On June 04 2015 16:01 scott31337 wrote: Could this be how you feel about GGTemplar as well? I see very little resistance so I'm starting to get that mislynch him mafia doesn't care. This post is also interesting, Scott is throwing out suspicions on Milo and myself, but not really doing much about it. He also just restates this "I'm not sure about GG, nobody is defending him" logic. I'm not even sold that this thinking has much value, + Show Spoiler + it's interesting but fails when scum buss their partners. I could see Scum defending a town mislynch, or Town trying to defend Scum who they don't think is so bad. A scum up for lynch (with partners that buss them) would have few defenders and a town playing really bad could easily get lynched without anyone bothering to step in to stop it. I think I liked this post when I first read it because I kinda understood where Scott was coming from on his opinion on Onegu. Looking at it now though I find it weird that Scott is scumming Fidei for wanting to lynch Onegu when he himself says that Onegu isn't playing great. It's also interesting Scott keeps saying we should keep Onegu around since he will improve later on, I find it rather interesting Scott promises this FOR Onegu. + Show Spoiler + On June 05 2015 03:09 scott31337 wrote: Bad post - seems to look like trying to go for an Onegu Mislynch in my opinion, try to start a bandwagon. Is this from a town who doesn't like Onegu or a scum trying a wagon away from GG or Chocolate? I know Onegu isn't playing great, but he will shine his moments when need be or we can worry about him tomorrow. I don't want to lynch him today. Onegu thinks Chocolate and Milo are town though. I didn't spend a whole lot of thought, I copy/pasted most of what it was about from another thread. Your vote (and you never did really vote) was fairly early and seemed to be of starting a wagon going early. Do you know what I mean? I would agree because I do not see SL being re-motivated, but I'd rather not vote him today either unless you aren't seeing bigger fish. More promises of Onegu's great scum finding abilities as Town and a meta read as to why Onegu isn't Scum. + Show Spoiler + On June 05 2015 03:16 scott31337 wrote: He's really good at finding mafia when he's town, but he doesn't build cases very well. I've observed probably at least five of his games. He likes to roll mafia and enjoys it more. As town he's usually pretty meh the first day until he's got votes and such to look at - and that's why I want him for at least another day. If day two still sucks we can go after him. This post adds nothing at all and is a pretty clear attempt to pocket ritoky. + Show Spoiler + On June 05 2015 04:16 scott31337 wrote: I've been thinking about this quite a bit actually, just haven't put it in the thread. Let's do it! Next few posts add little to Push for Choco as a lynch D1 or as a Defense of KS, Scott is just riding the EoD storm... exactly where I would imagine scum to be when both lynchs are on town that day. He even makes this post saying he thinks both wagons are town. However still says "Get on Chocolate!" after Kick claims. Easy moves for scum to make to show that they did not want to lynch either of the townies D1, and scum actually doesn't care if KS gets lynched, they can always NK him that night. That is just up through D1... I may split these up if I keep finding this much stuff... or I'll stop after D2 and just leave my vote on Scott. I'm actually ready to do just that after re-reading his D1. Scott posts this after his initial reactions to EoD. I'm noticing a pattern where Scott likes to make big posts with lots of quotes, but with very little of his own thoughts posted in between... seems like a scum strat to posting. Scott responds to Nydus' massive N1 post here and he is oddly focused on formatting stuff? I don't get why he says the Gree/Red text is a waste of time... + Show Spoiler + On June 05 2015 14:50 scott31337 wrote: Nydus can you give us a list of your scum to town? You wasted time with the green/red, and I know that takes time to do so, so this won't ask for much. Here we see that Scott has once again switched up his scumreads without a ton of reasons. GG has dissapeared, Choco is back up there, Damdred is now a scum lean, and even though they both scum Damdred Scott thinks Milo rounds out this team? + Show Spoiler + On June 05 2015 15:00 scott31337 wrote: Maybe - Chocolate town? EZPZ read - scum don't like scumming anybody. Rit super town? No, he's a light town. I see Fidei's ideas of "if this one mafia, etc" but he could be coached that as well, do not see any of it. ## Chocolate / Milo / (one of my pocketed vets, Ritoky/VE/Damdred) with a lean on Damdred. Damdred is playing his shit game, at least Onegu is pulling more off. I'm about 85% sure one of these are mafia, a slight lean on two. Ritoky looks a lot better then the other two, but worry when none of them die Day 3, check them out again. Then another post related to Nydus' coloring of names? A claim that Scott will have the game solved in a day or two... This post is actually REALLY telling. On June 05 2015 15:40 scott31337 wrote: 11:30pm - thoughts One of VE/Damred/Ritoky is mafia, maybe two. VE pocketed me early, a little too early. I'm suspicious of him. Ritoky is playing really well if he is mafia, better then what I have read. I really want to town read him, but, see above. Onegu is a meta town read - Needs to show up D2/D3 - which he normally does. GG Is a town read, and maybe ritoky is throwing my chain, but I got lynched in Newbie X D1 for the same reasons. Keep an eye out - like I mentioned, when Day three comes and they are not dead, start to worry. Chocolate I have not liked since the start - and maybe mafia moved their votes to protect their guy - It's too early to tell. I still do not like him - still scummy Ritoky - I really like his thoughts and I want him to be town so we can win - I have seen his play before as well though confusing us - and Kickstart saw it a little bit as well - Another D3 worry - I want to like him though. Fidei86 - crap. Milo - crap. TicTock - He improved his game a lot if he rolled scum this time. We talked back and forth and I think he's town. Day 4 then be worried. Notice how almost everyone is scum? Either Scott doesn't like them currently, or they have one of these arbitrary timers next to their name "D4, be worried!". I can't help but notice Nydus isn't on this list either... Onegu was a topic of discussion but why list Nydus if he is a scum partner who isn't under much suspicion? And then just more, Well they could be town but be scared if they are mafia posting On June 05 2015 16:03 scott31337 wrote: Damdred posts a lot of null/blah shit when he's mafia (or town) and it's hard to distinguish which side he's on. He's more of a busser (votes for his mafia peeps) - And doesn't want to take a stance so it'll mess up his "meta" for future games. VE is a little more aggressive as town but to be honest he's a tough one to read as well. He has more of a hard-on as mafia. I do not see that as of yet. Ok I actually need to stop there. This post is already massive and I'm only on page 3 of Scott's filter. I'm going to stop doing post by post analysis from here and just continue reading on my own. I'll update if my opinion changes, but honestly I'm amazed at how much I have found rather scummy in Scotts filter and have barely scratched the surface... I'm rather disappointed in myself for holding off reading his filter for so long. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
I can find clear evidence of him fearmongering as VE put it. On June 07 2015 07:18 scott31337 wrote: Oh and I have this magical thing called the Subscribed viewer counter. I know it gets thrown off at times by Observers like myself, but when peeps refresh the thread and no body posts it is noted.  Reading the thread is a great thing to do, and it is often better to reread and think through what you are saying than to post your knee-jerk reaction to something. On June 07 2015 07:53 scott31337 wrote: What stops them is the "Why am I still alive" policy. You can only run that towncred for so long and wonder why that person wasn't shot by the mafia, unless they are mafia. I can get into it more if you would like, but that's the jist of it. There might be some truth to this theory, but I think it pertains much better in a latergame situation (like 3-5 people left with 1/3 still being mafia) and someone has skated by on weak towncred alone. The way Scott uses it in this game is more like a countdown timer before a player can be lynched. He goes back on his silly argument about Nydus' formatting I noted earlier, swaps Nydus to town.. then uses it himself... On June 08 2015 03:09 scott31337 wrote: Damdred/GG/Fidei/Chocolate I think they are in these four. Milo's play hasn't been splendid, but that unvote in day 1 is pretty telling - although I don't want him to just ride it and not do a whole lot. He throws himself out as a likely NK each night. Which is a odd little way to look towny, but it kinda worked on me when I was more tunneled on Choco. Claims he is mostly townread by everybody & therefor suggests he shouldn't be suspected/lynched... I had a few more points but upon reviewing Damdred's case again I found that they lined up with his own reasons for scumming Scott. I also find it funny how Scott multiple times in this game mentions that he thinks there is a veteran player on the Scumteam, and that it is one of Damdred/VE/Onegu, while he gives townreads to Onegu in general and often makes posts that look like vauge pockets attempts to Damdred. On June 09 2015 06:12 scott31337 wrote: Okay dokey What shall we do Damdred? Scott you played a pretty good game buddy, I'm impressed. Between you and Onegu and my own misgivings on Damdred I was almost swayed into voting him with you guys, but I'm doing my reading and it tells me that Damdred is town and that you are scum. My vote stays. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
I'm pretty sure we are on the right track with scott here, and sorry but I'm going to have to leave my vote there since i simply have no time today to follow discussion. Just in case there are still any doubts.. THIS WAGON IS HITTING MAFIA FOR SURE BOYS! | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
I would have been completely down to swap my vote to Nydus if you guys had been talking about it earlier, and I'm really sorry I wasn't around for EoD to talk things out with everyone. I often have to leave for work a little before EoD but today I also had to spend like 4 hours pumping water out of my basement and now have a week of throwing out all the waterlogged shit we have down there to look forward too. I'm pretty sure I answered scotts question at some point, but if I did not it was due to me being distracted with other stuff. I could honestly care less that lurking mafia Nydus didn't mention me expect when I was looking like a convenient mislynch. I've given several reads on Nydus and have always found him to be rather scummy, but Nydus was good at staying in the background while there were better looking targets. I blame myself and my tendency to get tunneled on people, I've been trying to do better about it but clearly I have more to work on. I can still see a world where Scott is scum here and that he and Onegu could have just decided to bus their partner to get towncred and try to solidify their position for another LyLo tomorrow. However, I'm actually agreeing with scott here, Milo is looking really bad and I hate that he only has his D1 one unvote thing that looks towny and everything else is shit. There has be be the last 2 Mafia in Scott/Onegu/Milo and I'm still fairly certain Scott is mafia here. So I just need to try and work out if Onegu is town or not... and see if I can make sense of why scum!Milo would pull that unvote stunt and remove his only claim to towncred this game. I swear to god if you guys lynch me and lose the game because some RL situation has come up and forced me to take some time off from this game I'm going to be pissed at all of you for months to follow. I even made an effort to put time into my own read and case on Scott while dealing with this crap when I could have easily just sheeped Damdred's case. So fuck off about my "excuses" when I'm still clearly trying to play this game despite dealing with other shit. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On June 14 2015 12:09 VisceraEyes wrote: steve = scott in my last post. Don't smoke and post. I have a very different rule about this... Especially lately it's one of the few things that helps me relax when shit gets frustrating and I find it good for filter diving, specially large filters. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
Why did you vote Scott? The wagon on Damdred was still going when you voted, so why vote with your two scumreads and vote Scott? | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On June 14 2015 12:09 VisceraEyes wrote: Based on the fact that steve voted on someone else JUST BEFORE he voted for Nydus yesterday, I have to say that I'm still harboring a secret world where he decided that he was more important to the mafia team than lurker Nydus, and orchestrated with teammate Onegu to hyperbus Nydus instead of himself dying. 1) Steve could have gotten a wagon rolling on Nydus MUCH sooner, he mentioned being suspicious of Nydus earlier and townies (myself included) were murmuring assent. Yet he didn't try and get Nydus lynched then, he stayed on Damdred with Onegu. It wasn't until we finally got milo's vote that steve did anything at all to fight his lynch actually. And when he did move his vote, he moved it to Ticktock first. Not Nydus. 2) Milo (presumed townie before flip) and Ticktock (general townread before flip) were both going to be AFK for the flip, explicitly in the thread I believe. If they're townies on mafia steve then a switch to mafia Nydus looks REALLY BAD for them. 3) Onegu's vote was meaningless - we had majority on Nydus before Onegu moved. Also Nydus (confirmed mafia after the flip) moved his vote to Steve - distancing much? Anyway, I just wanted that out there before I die. I still think it's at lest fairly likely that Steve and Onegu are mafia. I'm trying to reevaluate, but this has to be in the thread. This bolded point is actually pretty huge imo. I'm not very good at vote analysis generally and since I wasn't around I don't have a good sense of how EoD went down yet (I read everything, but I suppose I should look harder at how the votes went down). Point 1 is pretty good too, though honestly I feel like I failed to push for a Nydus lynch myself even though I was scumreading him much more earlier in the game (I admit he was off my radar today since I was distracted with other stuff). So I know I am guilty of this as well, though with Scott under pressure it does seem even more odd that he spent time making a "town case" for himself rather than try and push other scumreads of his. I'm also pretty concerned about how easily Scott fipped his read on me. Last night phase he said I was his top townread. It seems like that was only the case when I was townreading scott though... interesting. All he's really brought against me is that I A) Voted for him and B) "shouldn't be alive" kus I've been so towny... Does that make much sense to anyone? | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
Who are you reading as scum now? On June 14 2015 06:08 Onegu wrote: But this means Damdred prolly not scum.. I don't understand this post. You've been so sure on your rule all game, even when Shen flipped town you claimed Damdred was complete scum based on your rule... Now that it's actually caught someone why are you doubting it? Also since Nydus was also a violator on your rule, why did it take you so long to switch your vote to him? I'm having an even harder time following your thinking through EoD than I have this whole game... Expect if I imagine you as Scum pushing your teammate in a last ditch effort for towncred... | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
Day 4 Vote Count Damdred (0): Scott (3): Tictock (0): NydusHerMain(4): Damdred, Scott, VisceraEyes, Onegu So here are the final votes for the Day. As I see it, we have Onegu & Scott starting a wagon on Damdred. We all knew Onegu was going to vote Damdred today as this was stated well in advance. Scott votes in response to Damdred's case on him. Milo joined the Damdred wagon, but then jumps off it like he is reconsidering who he wants to vote. I don't think he ever really tells us why or what he is thinking... so bleh Damdred votes scott after making his case, VE joins that vote. Later on I get on this wagon as well. Ok boring stuff out of the way Now at end of day we have scott defending his life and Onegu pushing for "Scumdred" Eventually the idea of lynching Nydus is brought up Damdred was the first person to suggest this notion and VE quickly agrees (though he doesn't vote Nydus till much later...). At this point I was already AFK, the post I made at the top of pg 101 was the only 5 min I had to post this game. Hence my apologies *stares at VE* + Show Spoiler + I would have supported this push on Nydus just for everyone's information Scott is quite adiment at this point that he prefers to vote on me, and does so. However, he later comes out with this post. On June 14 2015 05:02 scott31337 wrote: One of the major things was in my townpost - How he is still alive D4 when he seemed to be shitting town rainbows - I had a general town consensus (TT did on me as well until n3/d4) and every one turned on me. I'm willing to vote onegu but I think that'll end the game as well, but it's better then the chance we have going at this moment (Unless you are mafia). NHM has a better chance of continuing the game though if we vote him. If you were mafia why would you bring up the second chance thoughts unless you just want to fuck with us just for fun (haha) because you already had the game in the bag, is what I'm wondering now. That's an odd way to say someone is scum. This bolded line really feels like TMI to me as well. Why is scott suddenly so sure a Nydus lynch will keep the game going? He's been fine to just defend himself and vote Damdred, but when there is a sense that this vote could switch to Nydus he jumps all over it. Onegu switches to Nydus pretty late (:51) very reluctant to move off Damdred even for another person who broke his rule. Then Nydus jumps his vote to scott very late (:56) ? This is an odd move, it looks like Nydus is suddenly siding with Milo and Myself... but why? On June 14 2015 05:57 NydusHerMain wrote: Taking advantage of an ark w e lose if you vote me but I bet there's a town in ticktock or milo and I lose anyways since they're busy zzzz gg This was Nydus' post right after he voted scott. Knowing that he was going to flip red he sides with Milo and I calling us town? Would he do that if we were his scum mates? I mean it kinda outs the 3 of us together far too well doesn't it? I'm looking at the votes and I see clear evidence that this whole play was thought out in QT after Damdred suggests Nydus as a lynch. Damdreds post his suggestion then about 17 min later scott made this post. 17 min is ample time for an active scum team to plan a play like this out. Both Scott and Onegu were clearly active and posting at the time, and I think we can safely assume Nydus was lurking (as he has been all game with a 4 page filter >.<). Scott is suddenly so sure about Milo and I, but I'm not seeing what his reasoning is. It all just seems too convenient to me that Nydus suicides onto scott for no reason at EoD and this leads scott to scumming the 3 of us as a team. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
What about a world where Onegu and Milo are both scum? I'm still leaning scum on scott myself, but there is a world where he might be town here. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
So my personal opinion is still that Scott and Onegu are the scumteam here, with an outside chance that Milo is scum and I'm wrong about one of the other two. I'm going to make an attempt tonight to slim down possibilities so that town can focus on the right people. Right now I just wanted to summarize where I see this game sitting. At the moment it seems that the two main scum teams being considered is either Milo/TT or Scott/Onegu. I'm not sure thats the end of it, but that seems to be the main teams in discussion. Thus far we have Scott voting Milo, based on his case. I'll revist this case in a later post. I don't think it's bad, and I may actually be willing to lynch Milo today but I'm not not convinced yet. Scott is also scumming me, but I don't see much reasoning for this. Besides what I've mentioned before and argued against. I have to imagine he realizes he doesn't have a real case on me that's why he's pushing Milo today. Also it prob helps that Damdred said Milo should be lynched today and he was the NK. I honestly don't know where Onegu stands. I asked him last night what his reads are after he suddenly flipped his Damdred read but he didn't have anything to share but more thoughts related to Damdred. The only thing I know for sure about Onegu is that he is hard reading Scott as town (and Scott is doing the same to him). VE and Milo seem to be considering possibilities right now, and I'm not very sure where they stand on things. And then there is me... VE and Milo look like they have to be town to me here, as they are the ones trying to look at the game. Onegu is still a bundle of Null who at this point shared fewer thoughts or reads than Milo. Scott looks like he is scum trying to push his last potential mislynches and is somewhat flailing to explain why his world makes sense. I'd like to remind Town of the case on Scott brought up by Damdred. My own (partial) read into Scott's filter followed by my conclusions. I also made a counter to Scotts "I'm Town" case... I'm very tempted to just vote Scott here, but I want to make sure I'm not missing anything before I place my vote. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
VE/?? - Very Slim chance of VE/Scott. Nothing else makes sense. I'm almost certain VE is town since the world of VE and Scott being scum here is very hard to believe. + Show Spoiler + Any team besides VE/Scott makes no sense since VE could have swapped off Nydus back to Scott with Nydus and won the game. I have a hard time seeing VE/Scott as a team though since VE was willing to vote on Scott really early on. Why would VE want to bus Scott so early on if they were a team? Seems like they could have easily pushed on Damdred with Nydus and Onegu, especially since Milo and I were potentially voting Dam early on (Milo did in fact). Would this scumteam decide to bus Scott early on based on Damdred's case? It seems unlikely since they know Onegu is voting Damdred. Scott/Onegu - This is the world I believe we are in. I explained how the voting makes sense in this post for this team. Onegu and Scott hard town reading each other going into today supports them being on a team as well. Milo/TT - Both of us were AFK EoD so our votes remained on Scott where we put them before Nydus ever becomes a wagon. In this world our scummate Nydus decides to swap to Scott with us in a futile attempt to do ... what? Clearly Nydus is getting lynched at this point so moving his vote has to have a reason. Unless you think Milo and myself were actually in QT and not AFK and this was some elaborate scheme we devised to have Nydus side with us last min and therefore make it too obvious we are a team... Or in the reality where Milo and Myself are likely AFK at this point, why would Nydus make this switch last min on his own? I honestly thought I had better reasons to think Scott and Milo are a team here, but now that i look things over I have to admit that Milo/TT and Scott/Onegu are the only teams that make sense here. There is a very, VERY, slim chance that VE/Scott is a team here as well. I have a hard time buying that team since I'm still reading VE as town. Thus, I have to conclude that Scott is 100% mafia here and while Onegu is most likely his partner there is a very slim chance that VE is scum here as well.. I don't buy that world, but town should be willing to look at it. Please let me know if I missed a possible team here, or a solid reason why one of these teams doesn't make sense + Show Spoiler + I was only really looking at D4 voting logic here | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
Well since I'm town, I'm not certain about anybody atm. That's why I prefer to backup my claims with actual logic and reasoning. If it weren't for my team logic I just posted I would still be considering Milo possible scum. However I clearly can't accept the world where he and I are a scum team since I know better and that leaves you and Onegu. (or that weird world where VE is willing to bus you early D4 but then Nydus volunteers to take that lynch instead of you after Damdred brings up Nydus as a lynch). Humm, actually if you guys were willing to bus each other going into D4 it would make the switch to Nydus make a lot more sense even given the somewhat short 17min time frame between Damdred suggesting the idea and you running with it. I'll admit 17 min isn't a huge window to plan out a what I'm suggesting, but it is possible, and the details dont have to have been solid during those 17min. Just the idea in that time being mentioned in the QT and I can see you guys running with it, working out the details as you go. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On June 15 2015 15:17 Tictock wrote: @ Scott Well since I'm town, I'm not certain about anybody else atm. That's why I prefer to backup my claims with actual logic and reasoning. . I am sure about you now. ##Vote: Scott | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On June 16 2015 00:53 Onegu wrote: Sigh there is not a world where town would see it. Scum just give hosts a heads up that they are doing it. You do it in the last 5-10 seconds and town has to refresh to see it then go change their vote. Huh? Since when is this a thing? Scum has to vote via the Voting thread just like everyone else right? I mean whats the point of having a thread like that if Scum can just secretly vote via PM or w/e to the hosts... Between this and these posts, I have a feeling like Onegu is trying to drop dumbtells all over the place to keep with the "meta" that Scott keeps defending Onegu with. On June 15 2015 07:35 Onegu wrote: Will be voting milo. Scott is like 99% confirmed to me as town or game would be over. Like if me and scoot were mafia Damdred would have been lynched. Also if someone is blue it is the time to claim On June 15 2015 08:06 Onegu wrote: Normally there are 2-3 blues On June 15 2015 08:19 Onegu wrote: Onegu once again not reading OP | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
BTW, THIS is exactly why I don't like meta reads. It is so easy for a player like Onegu to change up his Meta to secure a win in a game. The idea that this is the only way we can Townread Onegu this game makes me distrust this meta stuff even more. Onegu has filled up 8 pages of filter pushing Damdred and talking about his Onegu Rule. Not once has he bothered to give a read on anyone else, besides a troll townread for Choco/Milo, and now this On June 15 2015 07:35 Onegu wrote: Will be voting milo. Scott is like 99% confirmed to me as town or game would be over. Like if me and scoot were mafia Damdred would have been lynched. Milo is right, in the event that Onegu stays on Damdred (remember Onegu didn't swap till :51 and even then it was meaningless, Nydus was already the lynch) and Scott swaps back last min this is a HUGE red flag to Damdred and VE and they would absolutely swap back to Scott. It's a risky play when there is already the plan of action to lynch Nydus and get towncred moving into today. Obv the NK had to be VE or Damdred last night given how things settled after EoD. Damdred may have been rethinking things about Scott, but he was also reluctant to scum read me. Who better to kill off for Scott/Onegu than the person who first brought suspicion onto Scott? Who was otherwise being townred (besides the other NK's like I pointed out in one of my posts about Scott). Hell, given how Nydus swapped to Scott for no reason right at the EoD I think it's safe to assume Scum is going for some WIFOM plays today. Killing Damdred (who was the obv attempt at a mislynch D4) might seems like a silly thing for team Scott/Onegu to do, but it fits with this world where Nydus sacrificed himself to give towncred to Scott/Onegu & then swaps to Scott to create confusion. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
I didn't expect to wake up and see this many pages of back and forth between Milo and Onegu... Funny how both of them are suddenly so active today compared to the rest of the game. I've got somethings to deal with today still but overall I should be around through EoD today. I see that Onegu and Scott still are sticking to the votes last EoD as their argument for being town, which just keeps perfectly in line with the bus on Nydus theory IMO. I was going to try and make a new case on scott last night, but fell asleep before I got more than a page or two into his filter. Think I'm burnt out on the filter dives anyways this game... So to quickly recap, Damdred made his Case. Scott posted a "Town case" for himself, which I responded too. Then there was the filter dive I did, followed by my conclusions. I'm certain Scott is mafia here, and since he has been hard defending Onegu and vise-versa I want to conclude that they have to be the scum team... The fact that this game isn't over (scum hasn't conceded) has me a tad bit worried. When Scott flips red, then it has to be either VE or myself to be the NK. Whoever is left tomorrow, reconsider everything! There is a slim chance that we've overlooked Milo bussing scott before he left on his trip then Nydus gets back and tells his team to bus him instead, or that slime chance about VE. I'm convinced Scott is the correct lynch today, I just don't want Town to have gotten through 2/3 of this LyLo to get tunneled and loose on the last day. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On June 17 2015 02:32 scott31337 wrote: Why would you be worried that scum has not conceded? Intelligent scum only concede when there is no chance of winning. You two have plenty of chance of winning if VE does not see the light. It's interesting why you would post this or reference this. I'm here now, had some morning errands to do (I'm in the west US) but I should have all day until deadline. I think it's obvious why that would be a concern for me, but you are too ingrained in the fiction of Milo and I being scum to be able to admit it. I'll give you a hint: + Show Spoiler + It's because I'm town and care about tomorrows lynch as well as today's. You do remember that there is one more day of LyLo if scum isn't willing to concede... | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
Not sure whats left to discuss though, we seem to be pretty stuck in our views all around. Also not sure if VE is around, and he seems to be the swing vote atm. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
I don't know how you can say I'm not trying to figuer things out, but when Scott and Onegu are hard townreading each other and pushing Myself as scum with Milo it's hard not to just OMGUS on them. I'm wondering though, what is looking towny to you about scott? I looked through his filter and came to the opposite conclusion, do you think I'm just too biased? | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On June 04 2015 04:45 scott31337 wrote: He never actually voted in the voting thread, but this looks like a Chezinu rule vote to me - A misguided understanding of a fairly new guy - when town would be afraid to vote so early but scum wants to start a easy ML. It's ok imo, but pretty NAI. Scott is throwing out useful info D1, reminding GG there is a voting thread and discussing the Chez rule. Good towny things to do but super easy to replicate as scum for easy towncred. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On June 17 2015 05:26 scott31337 wrote: Just look at it from my point of view and you would understand - And I could say the same thing... This stance is not very helpful and is just you digging your heals in the sand. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
Ah yea that post. Pretty sure I was townreading scott from it as well at that point in time. He was the first person to spell out the Chez rule for me and I agreed that GG was looking really scummy that day. I probably would have been townreading scott going into D4 as well if it weren't for his posts N3 and the case Damdred brought up on him. Do you disagree with the points I raised in this post? or the follow up post? I was surprised I found as much scummy stuff as I did in his filter, but maybe I was getting confirmation bias since I was kinda looking for scummy posts. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On June 17 2015 05:42 Tictock wrote: @VE Ah yea that post. Pretty sure I was townreading scott from it as well at that point in time. He was the first person to spell out the Chez rule for me and I agreed that GG was looking really scummy that day. I probably would have been townreading scott going into D4 as well if it weren't for his posts N3 and the case Damdred brought up on him. Do you disagree with the points I raised in this post? or the follow up post? I was surprised I found as much scummy stuff as I did in his filter, but maybe I was getting confirmation bias since I was kinda looking for scummy posts. Should be this one http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/486008-holy-guardians-chapter-1?page=97#1937 | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On June 17 2015 05:49 scott31337 wrote: Oh I see. There's nothing I can say I have not already about my drunken fail post I have not already, I was frustrated at the game at the time. A regret that won't happen in the future. I'm asking you to dismiss them, but not make the wagon on me D4 off of one post. Yea... it wasn't ONE post... It was several posts that gave me the willies. It was the case made by Damdred. It was my filter dive on Damdred that had me convinced he was town. It was my filter dive on Scott that convinced me he is Mafia. So yea, 5 min to go, time to watch Scott flip red I think  | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
Holy crap I can't believe I survived that game! Scumread and voted on everyday but I managed to survive! Was super worried when I rolled scum and saw my team was all newbies with me. Sorry I got frustrated at you Milo when you wanted to concede after Nydus got lynched, but I think I proved my point eh? Never give up Never surrender! Milo I think you owe everyone an explanation as to your unvote D1, lol I don't even think I get it still. Did you think that by having the votes tied it would cause a revote or something? GG Nydus, dude I was so sure you were going to get pinged out like you did with your play. Somehow you kept yourself from being focused till LyLo though so thats super impressive. Pretty sure if I had been town I woulda pushed you much more than Choco though. Whew, playing this right after the last newbie game has me fairly burnt out. I think I'll hold off playing in one of these games again. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
It has been a frustrating weekend >.< | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
Damdred was all too willing to play the EoD vote switch shenanigans (and I warned Nydus about the possibility of him being pinged out by that D4), so it was all up to how well I could convince VE. Milo did a great job picking up his posting D5 I thought too, woulda liked to have seen him posting like that all game long though. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On June 17 2015 06:10 Shendelzare wrote: Tictock deserved his win though, that was insane. Too bad for town. I apologize for being evil and suggesting we kill you the night you got swapped in ^.^ You had me a bit too worried when you pinged Nydus with that vote w/e day it was so kinda felt like we had to kill you the following Night. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On June 17 2015 06:13 scott31337 wrote: Hope you got it mostly taken care of. Thanks buddy. Yea it's mostly in shape. Problem is the area I live in has been getting record rains for the past month, so it's a problem for a TON of people. Like you can't rent pumps or find alot of the equipment you'd need because it's an issue almost everyone is facing. Thankfully I had some family who had a pump they could lend us as well as a few extra hands to carry out stuff. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
Damdred pushing KS D1 was amazing luck for our team. That woulda been game changing. Kick has hopefully learned the importance of claiming earlier, though in fairness we would have RB/Killed him that night regardless. Not to be mean, or w/e but Choco and GG really need to pick up their town game. You guys kinda got yourselves lynched more than my team pushing on you, it did make our lives easier so thanks for that ^.^ I was much more worried about VE wanting to push Milo D5 there, or that Scott and Onegu would make a better case on either of us. I think it was a mistake for you two to not push points outside of D4 votes as that fed into the Fiction I was creating about you two. It def helped that VE was clearly already on that line of thought. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On June 17 2015 06:28 Fidei86 wrote: Also I was really surprised when it was clear TT and scott weren't on the same team. You guys really need to get a mafia room :-p Not sure what you mean by this... You were that sure we were on a team? I kept giving Scott easy townreads w/o much thought and he kept saying he didn't believe I could be playing like I was as scum w/o support + Show Spoiler + Was all me baby! Milo and Nydus did their fair share, but I played to my own style and thinking. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On June 17 2015 06:33 Damdred wrote: Why didn't anyone quote me more about ho I said Milo had to die that was really disappointing. When I'm that sure and he ignores me he's scum. Q.q Anyway gg Lol I was worried about that too (obv I wasn't going to, though lol). You did make that one post right before we NK'd you that said something like "Milo should be the lynch tomorrow. Maybe scott still, idk" I woulda brought that up if someone had done that. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On June 17 2015 06:36 Fidei86 wrote: I was pretty sure you were mafia by the end, because the mafia had killed everyone else who could string a coherent sentence together, but you were still there with your filter dives. Ouch, I thought Damdred and VE were still very much so people I was worried about since they have experience and good reasoning. I actually recommend you look through the QT we had (milo posted the link) and see what we were thinking when we planned our NK's. It was never a simple decision and we kept trying to weigh how NKs would affect the following day. I def think trying to figure out why scum make NK's is dangerous WIFOM territory while you are in game and don't have much knowledge. Don't dismiss those thoughts, but don't base reads off them either. Just my 2 cents. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
Was reading Obs QT, and was wondering what you meant by this It also really bothered me that tt was so a f2f k the whole game,lol Also HtS had OGI that unfairly influenced her obs read of me I'd been hoping to roll town or another blue this game, as I felt a bit worn out after NSMX. When I saw that I rolled GF and my team wasn't very experienced I figured I'd play as towny as I could while not pinging out my team (though I was ready to bus them right away, lol). I think scotts argument about me being alive too long woulda worked to bring me down if I had had to buss Milo D5. I mean, I prob would have needed to concede if VE swapped to Milo as then the reality of him and I being a team was too clear. I really wanted to try and push a world where Onegu/Milo coulda been a team, or Scott/Milo to see if Onegu would give up his townread on scott. That was actually what I was hoping for with my team/logic post but when I was writing it it became clear that the votes D4 disproved a lot of team possibilities. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
GB added both QTs to the Endgame post. @GB I'm looking forward to your post-per-post analysis Also I would read flavor if you went back to add it in *nudge nudge* | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On June 17 2015 15:12 Damdred wrote: Negative you unvoting and voting chocolate would of had a different result as you wouldn't of been off the table for a couple cycles. I'm not mad at all or anything you guys played great I totally agree with Damdred here, it makes a lot more sense for scum to swap to choco as it is easy towncred but changes little about town losing the blue role. I highly doubt rit or many other players would have given Milo so much towncred had it not been for the threat of the modkill there. It was the risk of what looked like (and kinda was from Milo's post game post about this) a paniced Unvote with no follow up vote that made the move so towny. If you noitice I was not only freaking out at Milo in QT but I held off reading him ingame for this move till I saw that rit and others felt it was so towny. I would have had no issues bussing Milo D2 or D3 had he simply revoted Choco since the scum logic of that move was so much more clear cut. With the way things played out I tried to push the logic that Milo couldn't be scum there unless Choco was also scum D3. I really hoped that IF and ONLY IF logic would not only help push Choco for lynch but help secure Milo's towncred when Choco fliped. I can't help but wonder how the game would have played out if D1 had ended with 2 ModKills, a Choco lynch, and a KS NightKill. I bet town would win in that situation as GG and Choco were perfect mislynches for my team. Also damdred & rit working together as town, with Shen and VE ... Scary for a newbie scum team. Onegu would have been my top push in that world, though I would possibly would have bussed the living hell out of nydus there as well. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
However, since this was my first game as Mafia I'm fairly interested in what had people scumreading me this game. I understood GG's reason given the Chez rule stuff, though I think his approach needs some work. Chez thrives off reactive reading from what i can gather, so I think the way that you ignored my responses regardless of you being right or not about me was bad play. Since the rest of GG's scum reads were so far off I kinda take it that it was luck that you pinged me out. Also I have no issues voting rit like I did as town, so yea... I'm not so clear on why other people had issues with my play early on. I guess I was able to turn those opinions around on my own, but still wondering what people saw that made them think I was scum. In my own opinion the only really telling things were how I kept scumming Nydus but never really pushed him (thankfully that described about half the players) and my attempt to push Damdred off the D1 mislynch. Other than a few other small things like that I was really just trying to play my town game. Oh, btw statements like this cracked me up all game long. If you are scum TicTock you deserve the win from how much you improved, so let's throw that out. | ||
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Tictock
United States6051 Posts
On June 18 2015 07:15 Fidei86 wrote: VE - no worries. It's tough being the only one left stuck in between two warring factions. Just remember for next time - ALWAYS LYNCH TICKTOCK :-) Hey now... That might be fair if I'm not catching scum... I actually have a pretty good history of catching scum D1. Though I also get tunneled sometimes and that can effect my reads pretty badly. I'll be keeping that in mind the next time I roll Mafia though ^.^ Also pretty likely I'll be changing up me meta whenever I decide to /in another game. This was my 3rd game of Mafia ever btw ( forum based or otherwise) so I'm still learning a lot. | ||
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